| 00:21.11 | *** join/#wowace purl (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 00:21.11 | *** topic/#wowace is https://wowace.com/ | 7.1.x ToC: 70100 | https://wowace.com/paste/ | http://lua.org | This channel is logged, via purl |
| 00:40.42 | Stanzilla | creators update RTM |
| 00:40.54 | Stanzilla | considering trying win10 again :< |
| 00:43.50 | nevcairiel | when does it actually release |
| 00:45.00 | Stanzilla | next patch day |
| 00:45.19 | nevcairiel | 11th? |
| 00:45.25 | Stanzilla | yup |
| 00:46.03 | Stanzilla | RTM will probably get 1-3 CUs until then though |
| 00:46.03 | nevcairiel | i'm happy with 10, but i usually dont find all those weird bugs everyone else seems to run into =p |
| 00:46.04 | Stanzilla | as always |
| 00:46.17 | Stanzilla | I'm just a negative nancy and picky |
| 00:46.49 | quiescens | o.o |
| 00:47.12 | quiescens | don't do it stan |
| 00:47.15 | Stanzilla | I really want WSL |
| 01:03.27 | nevcairiel | i'm just happy with the advances they made in WSL with creators update |
| 01:03.43 | nevcairiel | bumping the ubuntu release it uses and all the fixes it has gotten should really make it quite a bit more usable |
| 01:04.34 | nevcairiel | couldnt do some of the stuff i wanted to do because of some lacking functionality |
| 01:06.04 | Stanzilla | yes |
| 01:06.11 | Stanzilla | which is why i am reconsidering |
| 01:07.08 | nevcairiel | (wasnt even all that fancy stuff, basically just running a webserver for some webdev and some node scripts for management, but some network functionality was missing that broke some things - rectified in creators, anyway) |
| 01:08.10 | Stanzilla | being able to call windows binaries from bash is nice too |
| 01:08.22 | nevcairiel | oh right they added that too |
| 01:08.53 | nevcairiel | wonder if i can use that for smart cross-compiling, linux bash with windows compiler :D |
| 01:09.12 | Stanzilla | yeah you can |
| 01:09.31 | nevcairiel | path issues need to be figured out, but maybe they solved that for me |
| 01:09.56 | Stanzilla | they still havent for explorer etc |
| 01:10.08 | Stanzilla | also still the issue with forbidden file names like aux. etc |
| 01:10.44 | Stanzilla | oh also great is that mklink no longer needs admin |
| 01:10.59 | nevcairiel | that was a silly requirement from the start |
| 01:11.38 | Stanzilla | yeah |
| 01:11.49 | nevcairiel | apparently only if you turned on developer mode though |
| 01:12.04 | nevcairiel | should've just done that for everyone |
| 01:15.08 | Stanzilla | well you have to turn that on for wsl anyway |
| 01:15.16 | Stanzilla | but they said its just a "at first" step |
| 01:15.29 | Stanzilla | will have to see how it goes, they are having security concerns or so |
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| 01:23.34 | quiescens | moo? |
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| 01:43.54 | Gnarfoz | do they support more than tcp and udp sockets then? |
| 01:43.58 | Gnarfoz | in that next version |
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| 08:07.51 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: it supports AF_UNIX/AF_LOCAL and AF_NETLINK - as well as a variety of AF_INET of course, just that AF_INET is limited to tcp, udp and icmp raw sockets, what particular other sockets did you think about? |
| 08:13.23 | Phixion | morning |
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| 12:01.51 | Megalon | :o |
| 12:02.58 | Phixion | :o |
| 12:19.46 | quiescens | o.o |
| 12:25.02 | znf | O.O |
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| 12:40.31 | Timmeh | 0.0 |
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| 14:58.24 | Phixion | https://bugs.chromium.org/p/project-zero/issues/detail?id=1122 nice |
| 15:03.50 | Megalon | LockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockLockPhixion |
| 15:07.14 | Phixion | :O |
| 15:07.23 | quiescens | o.o |
| 15:09.59 | Phixion | gives quiescens a lockie |
| 15:10.55 | Stanzilla | the new one in lastpass is way nicer, Phixion |
| 15:10.58 | Stanzilla | 2 lines of JS |
| 15:11.00 | Stanzilla | => poof |
| 15:14.30 | Phixion | yep read about it |
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| 15:22.27 | Phixion | <PROTECTED> |
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| 15:45.30 | Stanzilla | that their first thought is MS is trying to manipulate Linux performance instead of it just being a bug <.< |
| 15:46.07 | nebula | oh please, it probably just goes down a unoptimized path when it can't assume it has all the features it needs |
| 15:47.03 | nebula | but no, obviously ms is actively seeking to sabotage linux! |
| 15:48.06 | nevcairiel | its the internet, every coporation is intrinsically evil |
| 15:48.10 | nevcairiel | +r |
| 15:48.35 | quiescens | nevcairiel is sekretly ebil |
| 15:48.44 | nevcairiel | secretly? |
| 15:48.48 | nevcairiel | man i didnt even try to hide it |
| 15:48.52 | znf | I'm impressed on how Phixion takes steps to write lines that aren't logged by purl |
| 15:50.18 | Phixion | do I? |
| 15:50.23 | Stanzilla | :D |
| 15:50.36 | Megalon | nobody knows |
| 15:50.39 | Stanzilla | you had a space in front of the link |
| 15:50.41 | Phixion | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:50.41 | Stanzilla | from copy pasta |
| 15:50.48 | nebula | that one time you actually hit space before typing |
| 15:50.50 | nebula | znf is on to you |
| 15:50.58 | Stanzilla | nebula: didnt I say that |
| 15:50.58 | quiescens | o.o |
| 15:51.10 | znf | I think I noticed him doing it a few more times! |
| 15:51.28 | nebula | bleh, i scrolled up looking at the logs for him, lol |
| 15:51.39 | quiescens | your spaicraft is no match for znf's stalkerfu Phixion |
| 15:53.06 | Stanzilla | https://twitter.com/OlofKindgren/status/843949755986313216 |
| 15:53.08 | Stanzilla | I lol'd |
| 15:53.42 | Phixion | lol |
| 15:54.00 | quiescens | gives Stanzilla a cookie |
| 15:55.07 | Stanzilla | my package is in dubai now |
| 15:55.09 | Stanzilla | P L S |
| 15:56.23 | quiescens | what are you buying from dubai? |
| 15:57.16 | Stanzilla | nothing |
| 15:57.21 | quiescens | o.o |
| 15:57.32 | Stanzilla | Corsair decided to ship my cooler RMA replacement from hong kong |
| 15:58.04 | quiescens | by horse and cart |
| 15:58.25 | Megalon | RMA? don't you mean RGB? |
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| 17:05.57 | Stanzilla | I just had 2 bad pistachios in a row :( |
| 17:06.09 | chosi | yuck |
| 17:06.12 | chosi | those are the worst |
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| 18:52.58 | Stanzilla | http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/03/21/google-announces-android-o-focus-on-power-management-notifications-and-more/ |
| 18:55.00 | Kalroth | Oreo! |
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| 20:11.42 | Stanzilla | Fisker: did you flash O? |
| 20:12.40 | znf | I flashed Z |
| 20:14.20 | Fisker | No Stanzilla |
| 20:15.07 | Fisker | Can I get ota again? |
| 20:15.41 | Stanzilla | not yet |
| 20:15.57 | Stanzilla | they are probably doign a regular beta as soon as .2 is final |
| 20:16.37 | Stanzilla | https://twitter.com/konklone/status/843933144789213186 |
| 20:16.38 | Stanzilla | this is gold |
| 20:17.29 | Fisker | lol |
| 20:17.40 | Stanzilla | meanwhile they nuked their DB |
| 20:20.30 | znf | I just got a ticket the other way about pretty much the same thing |
| 20:20.48 | znf | client complained that after "server modifications", their website displays their login page as insecure :-/ |
| 20:21.24 | Fisker | Don't ship insecure login pages |
| 20:22.51 | znf | *shrug* couldn't care less about their user database, I told her she needs an SSL Certificate for her website, she said she doesn't want one |
| 20:25.06 | Fisker | Sure she does |
| 20:25.18 | Fisker | If she wants the message removed |
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| 20:38.29 | Gnarfoz | Stanzilla: who nuked what db? |
| 20:39.13 | Stanzilla | read the tweet |
| 20:39.16 | Stanzilla | the db of that site |
| 20:39.57 | Stanzilla | was not hard to find a vulnerability for it |
| 20:40.02 | Stanzilla | it ran on asp.net 2.0 :D |
| 20:40.06 | znf | Gnarfoz, TL;DR: |
| 20:40.28 | znf | SQL was not sanitized/escaped/prepared; people were able to read the passwords (stored in plaintext); someone eventually put it out of his misery and droppped the user table |
| 20:41.13 | nevcairiel | sure must be idiots running that place |
| 20:41.32 | znf | just one |
| 20:41.38 | Gnarfoz | Stanzilla: I read the tweet, it was about browser displaying "insecure" on http-delivered login pages |
| 20:41.39 | znf | the reddit thread contains more information |
| 20:41.51 | Gnarfoz | ty znf for tl;dr |
| 20:42.08 | znf | Gnarfoz, yeah, guy was complaining on bugzilla that firefox added an insecure notification to his login form |
| 20:42.13 | nevcairiel | yeah basically people had fun with that site after the mozilla report was spotted |
| 20:42.19 | znf | people told him that he shouldn't do that |
| 20:42.21 | nevcairiel | to challenge his 15 years of security :p |
| 20:42.39 | znf | and he claimed that he has internal security methods (or something similar) and his website hasn't been hacked in 15 years |
| 20:42.47 | znf | the internet likes a challenge ^^ |
| 20:42.48 | Gnarfoz | well, if he included his url in that report |
| 20:42.52 | znf | yeah, he did |
| 20:42.55 | nevcairiel | of course |
| 20:42.59 | Gnarfoz | can't read that in the tweet ^^ |
| 20:43.04 | nevcairiel | it wasnt even m uch of a challenge |
| 20:43.08 | nevcairiel | very basic s ql injection |
| 20:43.09 | Gnarfoz | and bugzilla is already nonpublic |
| 20:43.17 | nevcairiel | even made heise |
| 20:43.35 | Gnarfoz | sadly, haven't had time to read that or computerbase for a couple of weeks now :( |
| 20:43.40 | nevcairiel | :( |
| 20:44.30 | Gnarfoz | basically sounds like our security model, though |
| 20:44.49 | Gnarfoz | at least in some hopefully not internet-reachable places :p |
| 20:45.15 | nevcairiel | still not good, but if its internal only at least its somewhat shielded |
| 20:46.00 | znf | some guy on reddit even called him |
| 20:46.23 | Phixion | Stanzilla: that oilsite ....hillarious |
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| 20:46.33 | Stanzilla | ;D |
| 20:47.13 | znf | Gnarfoz, https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/60jc69/company_with_an_httpserved_login_form_filed_a/ |
| 20:47.23 | Stanzilla | http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/03/21/android-o-feature-spotlight-looks-like-android-may-getting-native-support-themes/ |
| 20:47.25 | Stanzilla | nice |
| 20:47.30 | Gnarfoz | at least everything I have power over is either a http->https redirect for everything, or the admin interfaces are only rechable from the LAN (or over https, separate from the main site) |
| 20:47.40 | Gnarfoz | another thing copied from Samsung, nice |
| 20:47.55 | Gnarfoz | (or somewhere else) |
| 20:48.17 | Gnarfoz | znf: ever run split-horizon DNS? |
| 20:48.24 | Stanzilla | this is the best though http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/03/21/android-o-feature-spotlight-official-autofill-api-will-save-typing-thing/ |
| 20:48.33 | Phixion | znf never ran stuff Gnarfoz |
| 20:48.43 | Stanzilla | http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/03/21/android-o-developer-preview-feature-spotlight-adaptive-icons-give-devs-and-oems-easy-shape-masks-extra-effects/ or this |
| 20:48.55 | Stanzilla | maybe that http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/03/21/android-o-feature-spotlight-can-snooze-individual-notifications-15m-30m-1hr/ |
| 20:49.39 | znf | Gnarfoz, nope, we had some servers for some customers that had different views for lan/internet, but I moved away from them, because the users tried to manage their own dns and kept fucking things up |
| 20:50.12 | znf | Gnarfoz, and if I want dns based on geolocation, I usually just go the Route53 way |
| 20:53.00 | Gnarfoz | znf: what you first described is split-horizon dns, though? |
| 20:53.04 | Gnarfoz | or you mean you weren't running it |
| 20:53.31 | znf | two of our clients that we manage had that, I promptly took it apart |
| 20:53.37 | Gnarfoz | hehe |
| 20:53.41 | Gnarfoz | meh |
| 20:54.07 | Gnarfoz | we don't run our own DNS for our websites anyway, that would have to be step 1 to do that |
| 20:54.11 | znf | after the 3rd time I had to explain to them that "YOU HAVE TO EDIT BOTH ZONES WHEN YOU WANT TO CHANGE SOME CRAP!!", I gave up |
| 20:54.27 | Gnarfoz | well, only if you want to change it on both sides |
| 20:54.28 | znf | Gnarfoz, not necesarly |
| 20:54.32 | Gnarfoz | is that done with 2 zones? |
| 20:54.40 | znf | yes, it's done with 2 zones |
| 20:54.47 | Gnarfoz | I have no idea how that is implemented, but then, I've never run a DNS server |
| 20:54.55 | Gnarfoz | (ok, dnsmasq for a bit at my parents' place) |
| 20:55.06 | znf | but when they want to change, let's say www.* and it's not internally hosted, they need to change the IP in both zones |
| 20:55.16 | znf | s/IP/records/ |
| 20:55.29 | znf | it's actually damn easy with dnsmasq, btw |
| 20:55.38 | Gnarfoz | why don't they just forward internal to external for things that don't have different entries internal/external? |
| 20:56.05 | znf | dnsmasq supports static records in the config file, so if you want www.somestuff.com to point internally for your, well, internal clients, you just need to add that |
| 20:56.08 | Gnarfoz | i.e. default to answer the same, only explicitly set internal to something different if it's actually different |
| 20:56.22 | Gnarfoz | yeah. sounds basically what I meant with my last two messages |
| 20:56.23 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 20:56.27 | Gnarfoz | +like |
| 20:56.34 | znf | well, they are doing that |
| 20:56.37 | znf | but let's say you have: |
| 20:57.03 | Gnarfoz | in any case, our website's DNS is hosted by the registrar the domains are registered with, currently |
| 20:57.22 | znf | someHost that needs to point to 10.0.0.1 for the local network, and needs to point to 123.123.123.1 externally, you need to keep that host in both zones, ok? |
| 20:57.30 | Gnarfoz | sure |
| 20:57.46 | nevcairiel | that sounds a bit iffy to do |
| 20:57.47 | znf | then let's say you have www that needs to point to 123.123.123.2, for both local and external |
| 20:58.02 | nevcairiel | should just make sure routing puts its where it needs to go instead of using different dns |
| 20:58.27 | znf | now, you need to change www to point to 234.234.234.234, so you will need to do it in both the local and remote zone |
| 20:58.28 | Gnarfoz | www on the local side should be CNAME www on the external side... I guess that doesn't quite work, heh |
| 20:58.38 | znf | nevcairiel, that doesn't work if the host is on layer2, afaik |
| 20:58.41 | znf | ie: in the same subnet |
| 20:58.51 | Gnarfoz | routing isn't even on layer 2 |
| 20:58.54 | Gnarfoz | so that doesn't make any sense |
| 20:58.56 | nevcairiel | no, thats 3 |
| 20:59.16 | znf | you'd be surprised how many people run a local mail server in the same subnet as their workstations :-/ |
| 20:59.16 | nevcairiel | but you probably shouldnt have users on the same physical link as your servers |
| 20:59.19 | Gnarfoz | but: that doesn't work anyway (or at least I have no idea how it would work) |
| 20:59.23 | znf | yup |
| 21:00.20 | nevcairiel | well assuming you want to reach the exact same server anyway, you just have to make sure routing ensures you stay in your local network, instead of going through the ISP once |
| 21:00.42 | nevcairiel | then you dont need to bother with trickery |
| 21:00.46 | Gnarfoz | that is way more complicated than having separate hostnames or split-horizon DNS |
| 21:00.53 | Gnarfoz | and it itself is trickery, just of a different sort :D |
| 21:01.11 | Gnarfoz | at least it's a lot more things to touch in a world-wide network |
| 21:01.33 | znf | some organisations use it to just have a local zone with common names for their printers, other file servers, or whatever, and that are not using Active Directory or any sort of wizardry |
| 21:01.45 | znf | anyway, back to the original question |
| 21:01.45 | nevcairiel | using different hostnames is of course the easiest cheat =p |
| 21:02.04 | znf | you can do that with dnsmasq, if dnsmasq is running on your local gateway |
| 21:02.11 | Gnarfoz | (it isn't) |
| 21:02.17 | znf | or, you can ofc do it with bind, you set up "zones" ACLs |
| 21:02.25 | Gnarfoz | I just mentioned dnsmasq because I used it at my parents' place once upon a time for dns forwarding |
| 21:02.44 | znf | well, not "running on your local gateway" per-se, but have a box running locally that is set as the DNS server |
| 21:02.56 | znf | ofcourse, now that I'm looking for that configuration in dnsmasq, I can't find it |
| 21:03.10 | Gnarfoz | doesn't have to be set, can jsut conditional-forward from the existing nameservers |
| 21:03.21 | Gnarfoz | we have too many DNS servers as it is |
| 21:03.36 | znf | dnsmasq has support for "static" hosts |
| 21:04.06 | znf | ie: you put www.google.com = 123.123.123.1 in it, and all clients that query that server will get 123.123.123.1 when asked about www.google.com |
| 21:04.35 | znf | anything else queried on that server is ofcourse send to the forwarded |
| 21:04.38 | znf | forwarder |
| 21:04.48 | nevcairiel | thats what you usually use when you override lookups in dnsmasq on your home router =p |
| 21:05.19 | znf | apparently dnsmasq also has --localise-queries, which serves records from /etc/hosts, neat |
| 21:07.28 | Gnarfoz | now if Windows DNS server had this feature ;) |
| 21:07.36 | nevcairiel | you use windows dns? |
| 21:07.50 | nevcairiel | i guess its mandatory for AD environments |
| 21:08.08 | Gnarfoz | indeed |
| 21:08.25 | Gnarfoz | terribleness. |
| 21:08.36 | znf | I'm sure it has some sort of views/zones concept |
| 21:08.40 | Gnarfoz | the admin GUIs for both DNS and DHCP are basically from NT4 |
| 21:08.55 | Gnarfoz | zones, sure, but if you make it authorative for a zone, you have to basically copy the zone |
| 21:09.03 | Gnarfoz | and keep it up to date with the real one |
| 21:09.20 | Gnarfoz | because it'll answer NXDOMAIN for shit not in its own db |
| 21:09.24 | znf | oh, apparently it's not supported |
| 21:09.28 | Gnarfoz | but... maybe I shouldn't speak too soon |
| 21:09.43 | znf | at least it wasn't in Server 2008 |
| 21:09.44 | znf | https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsserver/en-US/9ebe1d6d-e17e-4625-b103-eea5092242be/different-dns-views-with-windows-2008-dns-server |
| 21:09.47 | Gnarfoz | our Windows admins are by far not nerd enough to dig into stuff like this |
| 21:09.59 | Gnarfoz | so if nobody did it before now, they'll say it's probably not possible. |
| 21:10.12 | Gnarfoz | they do -not- experiment or try out things |
| 21:10.40 | Gnarfoz | also, "split-horizon DNS" is like a magic word that makes their eyes glaze over |
| 21:11.01 | Gnarfoz | (ok, not anymore, I've mentioned it often enough that they know what I'm talking about) |
| 21:11.06 | znf | Windows Server 2016 has that: https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/networking/2015/05/12/split-brain-dns-deployment-using-windows-dns-server-policies/ |
| 21:12.51 | Gnarfoz | well, server 2016 is basically a couple of weeks old now, we don't run that |
| 21:13.12 | Gnarfoz | but at least it has native support now |
| 21:14.16 | Gnarfoz | I don't want to immerse myself to deep into that right now, but it would be beautiful if it could do it without being authoritative for external requests |
| 21:14.28 | Gnarfoz | i.e. forward to somewhere else if the user doesn't belong to the "internal" scope |
| 21:14.48 | Gnarfoz | which would result in the same kind of "override to something else, if requester is internal" situation |
| 21:15.09 | znf | I'm assuming your workstations/internal servers have a single DNS server? |
| 21:15.16 | znf | or what are they configured to use? |
| 21:15.19 | znf | the AD one? |
| 21:15.21 | Gnarfoz | no, something between 2 and 4 |
| 21:15.25 | Gnarfoz | DNS servers |
| 21:15.33 | znf | AD? |
| 21:15.39 | Gnarfoz | yes |
| 21:15.44 | znf | you poor soul |
| 21:15.53 | Gnarfoz | it's not my mess to fix/improve |
| 21:16.12 | Gnarfoz | but I'm the go-to guy for shit like this because everyone knows nobody else can be bothered to google shit for 2 hours to learn something new |
| 21:16.22 | Gnarfoz | (or IRC shit for 2 hours, ty) |
| 21:16.43 | znf | what I would do: |
| 21:16.49 | znf | wait, actually |
| 21:17.04 | Gnarfoz | but... it's all hypothetical; I doubt we'll ever do split-horizon on the relevant DNS domain anyway. It's more likely we're going to have to move some of our sites to the corporate domain |
| 21:17.07 | znf | can the AD DNS server be configure to use a forwarder, I hope, right? |
| 21:17.09 | Gnarfoz | for which split-horizon DNS is already in place |
| 21:17.19 | znf | configured* |
| 21:17.19 | Gnarfoz | yeah, conditional forwarding is possible |
| 21:17.37 | Gnarfoz | not sure at which levels, though |
| 21:17.46 | znf | spin up a VM with dnsmasq, have all AD Servers query that :P |
| 21:17.52 | znf | it's a hack tough |
| 21:17.54 | Gnarfoz | yeah, not going to happen :p |
| 21:18.02 | Gnarfoz | and I don't have control over "all DNS servers" |
| 21:18.20 | Gnarfoz | there's like... I don't know a hundred of them? |
| 21:18.21 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 21:18.21 | znf | uhm, got control over the gateway/router? :D |
| 21:18.36 | Gnarfoz | that's not good enough, I need a solution that works for everyone world-wide ;) |
| 21:18.59 | Gnarfoz | the most I can affect is limited to our 75 people daughter company |
| 21:19.00 | znf | ah, you have multiple locations? |
| 21:19.03 | znf | I see |
| 21:19.06 | Gnarfoz | 14000 employees |
| 21:19.07 | znf | yeah, you're fucked :D |
| 21:19.35 | Gnarfoz | we have a domain controller in Kazakhstan's capital |
| 21:19.38 | Gnarfoz | for reasons I don't know |
| 21:19.51 | Gnarfoz | (Almaty?) |
| 21:20.02 | Gnarfoz | and I think all of them are also set up to be DNS servers |
| 21:20.14 | znf | ouch |
| 21:20.21 | Gnarfoz | so everyone has their closest DC (and thus DNS) as their DNS server |
| 21:20.39 | Gnarfoz | maybe I'm talking out of my ass, though, I'm really not integrated into that side of things |
| 21:20.44 | znf | then split-horizon doesn't really sound a good idea |
| 21:20.54 | Gnarfoz | well, they do it somehow. ^^ |
| 21:20.56 | znf | I personally dislike the whole idea/concept, but I understand the need for it, sometimes |
| 21:21.40 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: just to go into that version of it, because I'm not entirely sure what you meant: your solution would require... hm, I can't even quite wrap my head around it |
| 21:21.52 | znf | mkay, finally past 23:00, I can take out the trash now |
| 21:22.04 | Gnarfoz | why, are the mean kids in bed now? |
| 21:22.07 | Stanzilla | nevcairiel Gnarfoz https://github.com/davatron5000/can-i-subsystem-it |
| 21:22.23 | Gnarfoz | Stanzilla: nice |
| 21:22.55 | Gnarfoz | I should maybe add, that in the particular case I was dealing with today, all I really needed to achieve was to have an externally hosted domain to point to an internal IP address |
| 21:22.58 | Gnarfoz | instead of the previous external one |
| 21:23.14 | Gnarfoz | so I did the obvious thing and made the external DNS provider point to our internal address |
| 21:23.22 | Gnarfoz | it's not like it's reachable/routable on the Internet |
| 21:23.33 | nevcairiel | node-sass through gulp is what i was trying to run on anniversary, that failed with some obscure network reason |
| 21:23.56 | Gnarfoz | I kind of dislike the information leak I've created |
| 21:24.08 | Gnarfoz | but all other solutions would have been more terrible |
| 21:24.17 | Gnarfoz | (at least all the ones I could think of) |
| 21:24.46 | Gnarfoz | Stanzilla: that clearly needs a creator's update column, if that's RTM now |
| 21:24.56 | Stanzilla | yeah |
| 21:25.06 | Stanzilla | I just found it the other day, not sure how well maintained it is |
| 21:27.13 | Gnarfoz | znf: when I started working here, almost 7 years ago, we had the awesome setup of our DNS servers playing authoritative server for zones that were also hosted somewhere externally in the Internet by someone else. entirely separate. so it was really "split-brain" in the worst sense. |
| 21:28.08 | Gnarfoz | and, to make it more fun, members of those zones (at least the ones the admin didn't forget) were exluded from using the internal proxy via proxy.pac file :D |
| 21:28.30 | Gnarfoz | because the proxy couldn't talk to them using their internal address on its external interface |
| 21:28.39 | Gnarfoz | what a fucking disaster |
| 21:29.25 | znf | we've also had 7 dns servers :P |
| 21:29.42 | Gnarfoz | not to mention it was easy to just kill the proxy for everyone by just creating a 100 HTTPS connetions, because it was doing HTTPS traffic inspection |
| 21:29.42 | znf | 2 for shared hosting, 2 for... I don't know what, 3 for our freedns service |
| 21:29.56 | znf | 6 of them were in our own DC |
| 21:30.00 | Gnarfoz | as long as those don't share zones among them... :D |
| 21:30.29 | znf | I kept just 2 dns servers (1 for shared hosting, 1 for the freedns system) in our network, and replaced the rest with cheap DO instances |
| 21:30.50 | znf | in different datacenter around the world |
| 21:30.56 | znf | take that for redudancy :P |
| 21:31.47 | znf | also, I take out the trash after 11pm because for some reasons our building doesn't have a trash bin around |
| 21:31.52 | Gnarfoz | but for that, you have to know what AXFR is |
| 21:31.53 | znf | I have to cross the fucking road |
| 21:31.57 | Gnarfoz | or that it exists |
| 21:32.17 | znf | where the speed limit is 70km/h, but most cars do 90km/h |
| 21:32.21 | Gnarfoz | nice |
| 21:32.22 | znf | and it's a high traffic road |
| 21:32.30 | Gnarfoz | sounds like a terrible setup, but it's Romania, I guess |
| 21:32.32 | znf | so I usually do it after 11pm when it's quiet |
| 21:32.44 | Gnarfoz | we don't have streets like that in residential areas ^^ |
| 21:32.52 | Gnarfoz | but I understand now, you don't want to die taking out the trash |
| 21:32.53 | znf | old buildings have a garbage chute built-in |
| 21:32.53 | Gnarfoz | :P |
| 21:32.55 | nevcairiel | shouldnt everyone running a DNS server know what AXFR is |
| 21:33.03 | Gnarfoz | it's Windows |
| 21:33.10 | Gnarfoz | you have to know how to use a mouse |
| 21:33.14 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 21:33.20 | znf | since ~2000 or so, buildings are not allowed to have garbage-chutes anymore |
| 21:33.28 | znf | and you usually have a huge bin outside |
| 21:33.30 | nevcairiel | i guess AD DNS servers have their own proprietary zone transfer |
| 21:33.34 | znf | for some reasons, this building doesn't |
| 21:33.36 | Gnarfoz | yeah |
| 21:33.44 | Gnarfoz | it's all part of the domain forest |
| 21:33.46 | Gnarfoz | I think |
| 21:33.52 | znf | and if I'm correct, we don't even pay for garbage |
| 21:34.04 | znf | which is weird, and makes me feel like a thief when I take out the garbage at night |
| 21:34.06 | Gnarfoz | AD gets fucking disgusting at the size ours is |
| 21:34.16 | Gnarfoz | I don't even have access to most of it, which is fine by me |
| 21:34.18 | znf | we don't use AXFR between our DNS servers |
| 21:34.33 | Gnarfoz | I guess you could just use unison and reload them every once in a while. ;D |
| 21:34.39 | znf | we use pgsql with replication set up, powerdns ofc |
| 21:34.45 | Gnarfoz | or well, databases |
| 21:35.01 | znf | we have 4 servers just for DNS, basically |
| 21:35.05 | Gnarfoz | like I said, I've not run a DNS server for anything expect forwarding with dnsmasq (and a local zone for 3 computers) |
| 21:35.13 | znf | one which acts as the controller, master database |
| 21:35.19 | znf | the other 3 are replicas |
| 21:35.22 | znf | and are in read only mode |
| 21:35.39 | nevcairiel | i ran single dns servers for our LAN party back in the good old d ays, but that was one bind instance with one zone in it =p |
| 21:35.41 | Gnarfoz | maybe if our AWS training wasn't entirely pointless, because NOTHING has happened in that regard since we had it, I'd now be screaming for moving shit into Route53 |
| 21:35.51 | znf | Route53 is the bomb |
| 21:35.56 | Gnarfoz | it probably is |
| 21:36.08 | znf | use the letsencrypt hook for Route53 |
| 21:36.16 | znf | and you can issue certs with dns challenges |
| 21:36.24 | Gnarfoz | but... we're kind of too late to the party; nothing new we do is allowed to use non-corporate resources without prior approval/good reason |
| 21:36.37 | Gnarfoz | and changing old stuff... ain't nobody got time fo' dat |
| 21:36.45 | nevcairiel | i wish someone would build a dns challenge for LE for hetzner dns robot =p |
| 21:36.58 | znf | I'm doing that for a few domains where I was too lazy to set up a ~/.well-known location for nginx, I prefered to use route53's hook :D |
| 21:37.02 | znf | nevcairiel, you sure there isn't one? |
| 21:37.06 | Gnarfoz | that'd probably be up to Hetzner, wouldn't it? ... hm, no, robot has an API |
| 21:37.08 | nevcairiel | i didnt find one last month |
| 21:37.40 | nevcairiel | i have a few special hosts that dont evne listen to web on port 80 |
| 21:37.41 | Gnarfoz | I need to actually turn my (and our) LE thing into something that actually runs unattended |
| 21:37.47 | znf | meh, you're right |
| 21:37.48 | nevcairiel | so its a bit a nnoying to set that up just to get them LE |
| 21:38.06 | nevcairiel | i need to script my LE stuff to reload certs into the services |
| 21:38.09 | znf | https://github.com/Neilpang/acme.sh#9-automatic-dns-api-integration |
| 21:38.12 | Gnarfoz | I did the work last time to figure out how to do it at all/manually, next time they expire, I hope I'm going to have the time to turn it into a cronjob |
| 21:38.40 | nevcairiel | but quassel is annoying, i need to manually build the cert file it wants |
| 21:38.49 | Gnarfoz | probably actually easier for work, because it's only nginx there. on my own server it's going to be nginx, dovecot, postfix, proftpd and worst of all, Quassel |
| 21:39.09 | nevcairiel | i finally migrated my dovecot/postfix setup to LE certs last month |
| 21:39.11 | znf | acme.sh has a post-hook thing, if I remember corectly? |
| 21:39.17 | nevcairiel | they still used (expired) startcom certs until then |
| 21:39.18 | Gnarfoz | but automatically reloading our frontend load balancer unattended... is something I'm afraid to do |
| 21:39.33 | Gnarfoz | I used dehydrated to set ours and mine up last time |
| 21:39.48 | nevcairiel | i used certbot so far |
| 21:39.54 | znf | dehydrated for the win |
| 21:39.55 | Gnarfoz | it should really just be 0 0 * * * dehydrated |
| 21:40.00 | Gnarfoz | if I did it right |
| 21:40.10 | Gnarfoz | well, and configure a hook for nginx, of course |
| 21:40.17 | Gnarfoz | which is the missing thing I need to do |
| 21:40.44 | znf | dehydrated -c |
| 21:40.52 | Gnarfoz | I was actually lazy enough to point dehydrated to straight to /etc/nginx/tls/letsencrypt |
| 21:40.55 | Gnarfoz | so I don't have to move files around |
| 21:41.01 | Gnarfoz | right -c, but still |
| 21:41.39 | znf | thanks for reminding me that I forgot to add the cronjob |
| 21:41.46 | znf | this fucker should add itself to crontab |
| 21:41.53 | Gnarfoz | heh, my calendar is going to remind me in a few weeks |
| 21:42.19 | Gnarfoz | I also recently got a mail that a cert I issued using the staging CA is about to expire - ever had that? |
| 21:42.28 | znf | they also mail you |
| 21:42.38 | znf | I get mails all the time about certs being about to expire |
| 21:42.51 | znf | but I never used the staging CA |
| 21:43.04 | Gnarfoz | https://www.mobile.de/meine-anfragen/details/Mzg3NGU0NDMtNzZiOS00Y2Y4LWE4Y2YtZWQxNTIxYzQwYmZl can you see text here? |
| 21:43.09 | znf | http://i.imgur.com/Kiq3Cw8.png |
| 21:43.20 | znf | I can, yes |
| 21:43.25 | znf | Herr Wiese |
| 21:43.35 | znf | can't understand shit, but yes :D |
| 21:43.35 | Gnarfoz | nice |
| 21:44.15 | Gnarfoz | anyway, I wonder if I can report these "sure we'll make you an offer specific to your request, just contact us" fuckers |
| 21:44.17 | znf | what I dislike about dehydrated right now is that I can't use more than one challenge for different domains |
| 21:44.44 | Gnarfoz | it's a service where I put in a new car configuration and they throw it out to car dealerships that participate and they can then send mobile.de an offer, who send it to me |
| 21:45.05 | Gnarfoz | but every time I do this, 1/3 or more of the replies are these non-answers that don't actually include an offer |
| 21:45.09 | znf | ie: I have 2 domains (with a few subdomains) using the same Route53 credentials, but I don't have the credentials for a 3rd domain (it's not on the same route53 account), and even if I did, I can't seem to find a way to add it |
| 21:45.40 | Gnarfoz | just run a second copy pointing to a different config file? |
| 21:45.47 | Gnarfoz | it has a switch to specify config file |
| 21:45.47 | znf | bah |
| 21:46.51 | Gnarfoz | I do wonder if I'll get any 1-day-registration replies, though |
| 21:47.03 | Gnarfoz | factory new cars are unnecessarily expensive |
| 21:47.10 | znf | yup |
| 21:47.15 | Gnarfoz | particularly for a car that has so few options at the trim level I'm going for |
| 21:47.18 | znf | #1 reason I would never buy a new car |
| 21:47.34 | znf | put the key in ignition, drive 5 meters, car value just drops by 10% at least |
| 21:47.49 | Gnarfoz | yeah |
| 21:48.10 | znf | why did I switch to dehydrated from acme? |
| 21:48.25 | znf | *shrug* |
| 21:48.27 | Gnarfoz | I found it a simpler/saner setup |
| 21:48.41 | Gnarfoz | but maybe I was just too confused about how it all works when I tried acme.sh |
| 21:49.17 | znf | I think it didn't do DNS at the time when I set up dehydrated |
| 21:49.20 | Gnarfoz | I'm going to ask the dealer here to make me an offer, not sure how 1-day registration works in this regard... would they even be able to go that low/make offer me that? while still basically ordering a factory new car? that seems unlikely |
| 21:49.35 | znf | wth are ECC certificates and why should I care? |
| 21:49.41 | Gnarfoz | "better" crypto |
| 21:49.46 | Gnarfoz | elliptic curves instead of RSA |
| 21:50.37 | znf | and probably not supported in a lot of places, I'll pass |
| 21:51.06 | nevcairiel | you can use elliptic curve key exchanges with RSA certificates as well, so that adds the majority of security already |
| 21:51.59 | Gnarfoz | znf: I'd say almost everything supports it |
| 21:52.06 | nevcairiel | ie. if chrome says it uses ECDHE_RSA, then its using elliptic curve key exchange |
| 21:52.12 | Stanzilla | hype https://i.imgur.com/0LEyjBa.png |
| 21:52.21 | Gnarfoz | Firefox > 2.0, Chrome 1.0, IE7, Safari 4 |
| 21:52.40 | znf | Gnarfoz, ofc the browsers do |
| 21:52.47 | znf | what about urllib from python? |
| 21:52.51 | Gnarfoz | well, some of them have OS dependencies |
| 21:53.02 | Gnarfoz | urllib doesn't do https, isn't it linked to openssl? |
| 21:53.04 | znf | that thing still bitches about SSLv3 or something like that |
| 21:53.14 | Gnarfoz | or rather, it shouldn't be doing tls |
| 21:53.41 | Gnarfoz | https://support.globalsign.com/customer/portal/articles/1995283-ecc-compatibility well, something something ECC |
| 21:53.44 | *** join/#wowace Funkeh` (~Funkeh`@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 21:53.44 | *** mode/#wowace [+o Funkeh`] by ChanServ |
| 21:54.13 | Gnarfoz | mobile.de is actually serving an ECC cert, I think: ECDHE_ECDSA |
| 21:54.36 | Gnarfoz | good for them |
| 21:54.36 | nevcairiel | that would mean that, yes |
| 21:54.55 | nevcairiel | the first part is the key-exchange, which is independent of the cert, and the second part is the cert signature algorithm |
| 21:55.01 | Gnarfoz | Stanzilla: it's now going to go for a detour across the US |
| 21:55.37 | Gnarfoz | znf: another dumb thing about factory new car: they want money to bring it wherever. |
| 21:55.41 | nevcairiel | mobile.de fails at life though |
| 21:55.53 | nevcairiel | access https://www.mobile.de, redirects to http |
| 21:56.07 | znf | ha |
| 21:56.15 | Gnarfoz | pretty common to not use https for pages that don't "need it"... well, last decade, maybe. |
| 21:56.22 | nevcairiel | hence failing at life |
| 21:56.31 | Gnarfoz | just plain terrible today :DP |
| 21:56.35 | Stanzilla | Gnarfoz: pls no |
| 21:56.44 | Gnarfoz | especially since they're already using the fastest combination of crypto algos they can |
| 21:56.55 | Gnarfoz | (or maybe they could add ChaCha20 or that other thing from djb) |
| 21:56.59 | nevcairiel | the performance argument is getting old |
| 21:57.04 | Gnarfoz | yeah, it's laughable |
| 21:57.20 | Gnarfoz | AES-NI doesn't even matter |
| 21:57.37 | Gnarfoz | but I'm sure they'd be able to use it, since they probably have quite a few hits per second |
| 21:57.57 | nevcairiel | the AES cpu instructions are really fast though |
| 21:58.00 | Gnarfoz | even then, we've long since reached the point where RSA is the slow part |
| 21:58.08 | Gnarfoz | hence ECC |
| 21:58.30 | nevcairiel | yeah the negotiation at the start is probably slower then the actual AES in many cases |
| 21:58.44 | nevcairiel | especially since it has to go back and forth a couple times |
| 21:59.03 | Gnarfoz | just use http/2, and some crazy-ass zero-roundtrip handshake |
| 21:59.24 | nevcairiel | for tls? not sure that works |
| 21:59.41 | Gnarfoz | just joking around, not sure if one of that kind exists for TLS |
| 22:00.01 | Gnarfoz | (http(/2) could save TLS session setups via pipelining and keepalive) |
| 22:00.21 | Gnarfoz | https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-thomson-tls-0rtt-and-certs-00.html |
| 22:00.46 | Gnarfoz | onyl with pre-shared key, heh, I wonder why that is. :P |
| 22:01.10 | nevcairiel | makes sense, wonder if thats really a good idea though, the server would have to store tons of state info for all those users |
| 22:01.29 | Gnarfoz | well, session tickets or session ids already require that |
| 22:01.55 | nevcairiel | (it also feels like something t hat will suffer some fancy-named exploit) |
| 22:01.58 | znf | HTTP/2 has pipelining and multiplexing |
| 22:02.15 | nevcairiel | pipeling isnt exactly new in http2 |
| 22:02.26 | znf | instead of sharding to static content hosts, it's probably better to just serve everything over the http/2 connection |
| 22:02.27 | Gnarfoz | I hate websites that put optional checkboxes relating to an input field behind the "submit" button in the tab order |
| 22:03.01 | Gnarfoz | input thing, tab, space, ahh crap, I wanted to check the "don't log this" checkbox, not click the submit button |
| 22:03.07 | Gnarfoz | (which is one more tab away) |
| 22:03.35 | nevcairiel | the pipelining article on wikipedia is really making one sad |
| 22:04.00 | Gnarfoz | https://istlsfastyet.com/ |
| 22:04.03 | nevcairiel | the list of browser support is basically "xxx does not support pipeling because servers suck" |
| 22:04.06 | znf | nevcairiel, it's from spdy? |
| 22:04.15 | nevcairiel | http1.1 implemented pipeling :p |
| 22:04.23 | znf | are we talking about the same thing? |
| 22:04.31 | nevcairiel | maybe you called it the wrong name |
| 22:04.58 | znf | I'm talking about the ability to serve multiple files at the same time over the same connection |
| 22:04.58 | nevcairiel | requesting multiple resources on the same http tcp connection, without even w aiting for the response of the first -> http 1.1 pipelining |
| 22:05.28 | nevcairiel | but todays browsers basically don't use it because many servers are buggy with it |
| 22:05.55 | Gnarfoz | you can just pipeline requests in http/1.1, I think http/2 is able to multiplex the reply so it's actually sending all the requested things "at the same time"? or maybe I just made that up |
| 22:06.47 | znf | today I found /r/watchitforthecat/ |
| 22:07.00 | znf | it's mostly porn, but has random cats in it |
| 22:07.08 | nevcairiel | multiplexing should resolve some of the bottlenecks of http 1.1 pipelining |
| 22:08.17 | nevcairiel | and maybe people will actually pay attention to implementing it properly and this stuff actually gets used |
| 22:08.56 | Gnarfoz | I should switch out our load balancer's openssl one day |
| 22:09.05 | nevcairiel | still on 0.9? |
| 22:09.06 | nevcairiel | :D |
| 22:09.09 | Gnarfoz | 1.0.1 |
| 22:09.33 | Gnarfoz | 1.0.1-rhel that is |
| 22:09.38 | Gnarfoz | probably not quite the same |
| 22:10.01 | Gnarfoz | still, doesn't support a bunch of things and I think it's EOL already or very soon |
| 22:10.18 | nevcairiel | it is eol |
| 22:10.21 | Gnarfoz | I mean, it's good enough for an A score on Qualys' test, so it's not terrible |
| 22:10.34 | Gnarfoz | but it's only one openssl bug away from being a real problem |
| 22:10.38 | nevcairiel | 1.0.2 is their LTS branch and should be largely compatible |
| 22:10.56 | nevcairiel | or go crazy and go 1.1.0 :D |
| 22:11.37 | *** join/#wowace Repo (~repo@69.85.223.171) |
| 22:11.37 | Gnarfoz | # openssl version |
| 22:11.38 | Gnarfoz | OpenSSL 1.0.1e-fips 11 Feb 2013 |
| 22:11.44 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 22:11.53 | Gnarfoz | that date is not what the build is from |
| 22:11.58 | Gnarfoz | it's the date of the FIPS certification, I think |
| 22:11.59 | nevcairiel | e isnt even the latest |
| 22:12.08 | znf | bad Gnarfoz |
| 22:12.11 | Gnarfoz | sure, but red hat patches their shit, even if they're not terribly fast at it |
| 22:12.18 | znf | ]# openssl version |
| 22:12.18 | znf | OpenSSL 1.0.2k 26 Jan 2017 |
| 22:12.19 | znf | uhm |
| 22:12.36 | nevcairiel | the letter versions of openssl are basically just security fixes |
| 22:12.40 | nevcairiel | they should just use those |
| 22:12.54 | Gnarfoz | I have no idea what their modifications are |
| 22:12.58 | znf | apparently ubuntu 16.04 is on 1.0.2k |
| 22:12.59 | znf | ohw ell |
| 22:13.05 | Gnarfoz | openssl-1.0.1e-48.el6_8.3.x86_64 |
| 22:13.16 | znf | I never understood encryption and openssl |
| 22:13.21 | znf | it's mostly a headache |
| 22:13.24 | Gnarfoz | patch 48 for RHEL 6.8, not sure what the .3 is about |
| 22:14.55 | nevcairiel | distributions, especially the enterprisey ones, are really picky about upgrading their software, so even if they backport basically all the patches that make up a new version, rather do that then just adopt a new upstream tarball =p |
| 22:15.28 | Gnarfoz | it's just how they roll (their tarballs) |
| 22:15.53 | Gnarfoz | end of production 3 (...don't ask) for RHEL6 is only in 2020 |
| 22:16.08 | Gnarfoz | that's when "extended lifecycle support" starts |
| 22:16.11 | Gnarfoz | so it's not even over in 2020 |
| 22:16.18 | Gnarfoz | that must be a fucking nightmare |
| 22:16.27 | nevcairiel | sounds like you can buy yourself into those categories |
| 22:16.40 | Gnarfoz | yeha, I'm not sure if that is baseline |
| 22:16.46 | Gnarfoz | doesn't really matter because there's centos |
| 22:17.00 | Gnarfoz | you're just not guaranteed anything with that |
| 22:17.26 | Gnarfoz | maybe it's time to replace our LBs |
| 22:17.33 | Gnarfoz | I'm really not inclined to make them VMs, though |
| 22:17.56 | nevcairiel | For versions of products in the Extended Life Phase, Red Hat will provide limited ongoing technical support. No bug fixes, security fixes, hardware enablement or root-cause analysis will be available during this phase, and support will be provided on existing installations only. |
| 22:17.56 | nevcairiel | Red Hat reserves the right to terminate the ongoing support in the Extended Life Phase for a particular version of Red Hat Enterprise Linux at any time. |
| 22:18.01 | nevcairiel | doesnt sound particularly useful |
| 22:18.29 | Gnarfoz | it says "ELS offered on RHEL5 only" |
| 22:18.51 | Gnarfoz | so maybe "extended life phase" and "extended lifecycle support" are not equivalent |
| 22:18.59 | znf | So, HHVM won't run a piece of code for me, I've no idea why |
| 22:19.05 | Gnarfoz | i.e. the latter fixes the issues for the former... for a price |
| 22:19.07 | nevcairiel | Extended Life-cycle Support (ELS) is an optional Add-On subscription for certain Red Hat Enterprise Linux subscriptions. Available during the Extended Life Phase for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 and 5, the ELS Add-On delivers certain critical-impact security fixes and selected urgent priority bug fixes for the last minor release. |
| 22:19.15 | Gnarfoz | yeah |
| 22:19.25 | Gnarfoz | good thing we don't have anything left that uses EL5 |
| 22:19.26 | nevcairiel | not for 6 yet, since it didnt reach that time yet, i guess =p |
| 22:19.32 | Gnarfoz | yeah |
| 22:19.37 | Gnarfoz | 6 is still in production phase |
| 22:19.48 | nevcairiel | 2 ends soon though! |
| 22:19.50 | Gnarfoz | 7 uses systemd |
| 22:20.02 | Gnarfoz | but at this point, what doesn't |
| 22:20.13 | Gnarfoz | the war was lost |
| 22:20.26 | nevcairiel | maintaining such enterprise linux must truely be a nightmare |
| 22:20.30 | nevcairiel | on redhats side, i mean |
| 22:20.38 | Gnarfoz | yeah |
| 22:20.56 | Gnarfoz | I guess it's why it costs money |
| 22:21.21 | znf | you know what sucks? |
| 22:21.39 | znf | you can upgrade redhat 6 to 7 |
| 22:21.40 | Gnarfoz | vacuums? |
| 22:21.42 | znf | but not centos |
| 22:21.44 | znf | no upgrade path |
| 22:21.59 | Gnarfoz | the rhel thing is also various kinds of "not recommended" |
| 22:22.16 | znf | >DO NOT USE this tool. Warning: use of this tool is currently BROKEN as several system-critical packages are of a higher version number in CentOS 6.7 than they are in CentOS 7 so those do not get upgraded correctly. This renders yum and several other system tools non-functional. |
| 22:22.16 | Catal1na | NOT USE this tool. Warning: use of this tool is currently BROKEN as several system-critical packages are of a higher version number in CentOS 6.7 than they are in CentOS 7 so those do not get upgraded correctly. This renders yum and several other system tools non-functional. |
| 22:22.20 | znf | uhm |
| 22:22.20 | nevcairiel | you are probably better of just replacing the box |
| 22:22.23 | znf | Catal1na, quiet |
| 22:22.45 | Gnarfoz | I think I read the page you quoted that from, when rhel7 was released |
| 22:22.51 | Gnarfoz | text hasn't changed, probably because nobody cares |
| 22:23.04 | Gnarfoz | has anyone seen Iron Fist? |
| 22:23.08 | nevcairiel | yea |
| 22:23.09 | znf | I stopped there, didn't go further, just reinstalled it |
| 22:23.09 | Gnarfoz | or Luke Cage, for that matter |
| 22:23.10 | nevcairiel | was pretty good |
| 22:23.12 | nevcairiel | both |
| 22:23.26 | Gnarfoz | speaks to Marvel's prowess, then |
| 22:23.33 | znf | I still need to see Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and Iron First |
| 22:23.37 | Gnarfoz | guess I should grab both |
| 22:23.39 | znf | watched only daredevil, both seasons |
| 22:23.50 | Gnarfoz | I need to watch DD season 2 |
| 22:23.56 | Gnarfoz | (and LC and IF) |
| 22:24.02 | znf | it was quite good |
| 22:24.06 | nevcairiel | they all play in the marvel universe of course, even have select cross-over chars between all 4 series |
| 22:24.12 | Gnarfoz | but first I'm going to finish Person of Interest |
| 22:24.23 | znf | that's because their next series is The Defenders |
| 22:24.31 | znf | >tv marvel's the defenders |
| 22:24.32 | Catal1na | Marvel's The Defenders SOON (In Development). Next Episode: not yet scheduled. http://www.tvmaze.com/shows/2176/marvels-the-defenders |
| 22:25.11 | Gnarfoz | what did I read recently about there being some weird push to ignore the CN value for certificates soon? |
| 22:25.15 | nevcairiel | i figured defenders would come after the punisher series, but maybe he is too much of an anti-hero to take part in that |
| 22:25.17 | Gnarfoz | why does that make any sense at all |
| 22:25.32 | znf | tough, I wonder when did they decide to add a 4th series/hero to the mix |
| 22:25.50 | znf | initially they said they'll do 3 then the defenders |
| 22:25.55 | Gnarfoz | (i.e. they'd only consider stuff listed as subjectAltNames) |
| 22:28.44 | Stanzilla | Gnarfoz: that https://textslashplain.com/2017/03/10/chrome-deprecates-subject-cn-matching/ |
| 22:30.02 | nevcairiel | that link doesnt explain shit =p |
| 22:30.27 | Gnarfoz | it even calls it "subject" even though it's really "common name" |
| 22:30.30 | Gnarfoz | (but has CN in the title) |
| 22:30.35 | Gnarfoz | ANYway, yeah, that |
| 22:30.44 | Gnarfoz | is it only for self-signed ones? |
| 22:31.02 | Gnarfoz | because that's what they open with |
| 22:31.29 | Timmeh | I think their point is that most (if not all) non-self-signed certs have the CN in the SAN field as well |
| 22:31.52 | nevcairiel | from the RFC in question: |
| 22:31.54 | nevcairiel | If a subjectAltName extension of type dNSName is present, that MUST |
| 22:31.55 | nevcairiel | be used as the identity. Otherwise, the (most specific) Common Name |
| 22:31.55 | nevcairiel | field in the Subject field of the certificate MUST be used. Although |
| 22:31.55 | nevcairiel | the use of the Common Name is existing practice, it is deprecated and |
| 22:31.55 | nevcairiel | Certification Authorities are encouraged to use the dNSName instead. |
| 22:32.10 | nevcairiel | ... so basically, using common name has been deprecated since ~2000 |
| 22:32.19 | Gnarfoz | well, yeah, so says https://www.chromestatus.com/features/4981025180483584 as well |
| 22:32.42 | Gnarfoz | so what do we put in CN from now on? :P |
| 22:32.54 | nevcairiel | just keep it filled out, i guess :p |
| 22:33.20 | nevcairiel | apparently its only a problem if you had certs made with 20 years old tools |
| 22:33.35 | Gnarfoz | or certs where you didn't put a subjectAltName in because it was for only 1 host |
| 22:33.43 | Gnarfoz | and you're not "a CA" |
| 22:33.46 | nevcairiel | the CA should fill that for you |
| 22:33.52 | nevcairiel | or whatever tool you use |
| 22:33.59 | Gnarfoz | which is probably why stans link targeted self-signers |
| 22:34.00 | nevcairiel | dont think openssl can even do that |
| 22:34.06 | Gnarfoz | openssl doesn't do it on its own |
| 22:34.09 | Gnarfoz | which is terrible anyway |
| 22:34.33 | Gnarfoz | need to do use a request extension thing using an openssl.cnf file |
| 22:34.38 | nevcairiel | if i just specify a CN in an openssl cert, it puts that into altname too |
| 22:34.45 | nevcairiel | i'm pretty sure |
| 22:34.50 | Gnarfoz | then your system's openssl.cnf specifies that, I bet |
| 22:35.10 | nevcairiel | perhaps? :) |
| 22:35.13 | nevcairiel | let me check |
| 22:35.47 | Gnarfoz | at least the last time I tried it, without using any openssl.cnf (i.e. not a system-wide one, either), it didn't have any extended attributes like sAN in it |
| 22:35.52 | Gnarfoz | but that was... in 2012 or so :p |
| 22:36.03 | Gnarfoz | I should clean out my old "random bash crap" directory |
| 22:37.20 | Gnarfoz | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10175812/how-to-create-a-self-signed-certificate-with-openssl/27931596#27931596 third part of this answer |
| 22:37.48 | Gnarfoz | "[This differs] from other answers in one respect: the DNS names used for the self signed certificate are in the Subject Alternate Name (SAN), and not the Common Name (CN)." |
| 22:37.52 | Gnarfoz | and it goes on to use a config file :( |
| 22:38.02 | Gnarfoz | which is also what my bash snippet does |
| 22:38.18 | Gnarfoz | I use a very short heredoc and merge it with a more general openssl.cnf |
| 22:38.30 | Gnarfoz | (IIRC) |
| 22:39.02 | *** join/#wowace webturtle0 (~webturtle@69.174.185.34) |
| 22:39.10 | Gnarfoz | I should disable 3DES on our servers |
| 22:39.29 | Timmeh | just checked an automatically generated self signed cert on one of my servers, it indeed does not have a SAN field |
| 22:39.51 | Timmeh | not that it really matters, though |
| 22:39.53 | Gnarfoz | automatically generated with what, though? |
| 22:40.05 | znf | internal tools/webui :P |
| 22:40.12 | znf | our multiflexes generate their own certs, too |
| 22:40.15 | znf | and they do it for IP! |
| 22:40.33 | nevcairiel | linux distros will often just generate a simple self-signed cert with openssl when you install a package that needs a cert |
| 22:40.55 | znf | debian/ubuntu has the common SnakeOil certificate |
| 22:41.15 | nevcairiel | kind of dumb of openssl if it needs such fancy config just to make a cert that works in modern browsers |
| 22:41.31 | Gnarfoz | dumb |
| 22:41.32 | Gnarfoz | openssl |
| 22:41.37 | Gnarfoz | 'nuff said? |
| 22:42.00 | Timmeh | automatically generated by /var/lib/dpkg/info/ssl-cert.postinst |
| 22:42.02 | nevcairiel | any CA is hopefully smart enough |
| 22:42.08 | Timmeh | so yes, the automatic Snake Oil cert |
| 22:42.55 | Timmeh | technically the cert works fine |
| 22:43.24 | Timmeh | it'll just be invalid in yet another way :-P |
| 22:43.56 | nevcairiel | unfortunately some errors are really hard to make the browser ignore |
| 22:44.06 | nevcairiel | self-signed you can still just click through i believe |
| 22:44.11 | nevcairiel | wrong name is more annoying |
| 22:44.46 | Timmeh | definitely more annoying |
| 22:44.56 | Gnarfoz | audio tracks on blu-rays take too much space |
| 22:45.08 | Gnarfoz | actually no |
| 22:45.13 | Timmeh | Chrome made it stupid annoying anyway now.. when you get a cert error, you need to actually open the developer tools, go to Security and click "View certificate" |
| 22:45.17 | Gnarfoz | studios are too lazy to fill up BD50s |
| 22:45.56 | Gnarfoz | Chrome has never been about user-friendliness... it's all about shoving whatever the developers deem correct/good down everyone's throats, for better or worse |
| 22:46.01 | nevcairiel | video bitrates on blu-rays are way too high anyway, could get away with much lower rates without a noticeable drop in quality, so what do you want, more extras? =p |
| 22:46.13 | znf | higher res! |
| 22:46.20 | Gnarfoz | that'd be out of spec |
| 22:46.23 | nevcairiel | thats called UHD Blu-ray |
| 22:46.28 | Gnarfoz | but just high enough bitrate to fill the disk |
| 22:46.41 | Gnarfoz | since their standards don't allow many of the more advanced AVC features anyway |
| 22:46.53 | znf | are the physical disks of "UHD" bluray different than normal bluray? |
| 22:47.00 | Gnarfoz | so just go as far as you can within those self-imposed limits |
| 22:47.19 | nevcairiel | its just 1080p at 24p typically, you dont need all that space for a normal-length movie, even if you go crazy on bits |
| 22:47.33 | znf | if you put 60fps, you break shit? |
| 22:47.39 | Gnarfoz | that's what I mean, I'm asking them to go crazy on bits |
| 22:47.41 | nevcairiel | znf: yes, they use BDXL discs |
| 22:47.52 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: they basically do, just not crazy enough i guess? =p |
| 22:48.00 | Gnarfoz | 8 GB left on Rogue One disc |
| 22:48.13 | Gnarfoz | I know scene encodes would fit the movie into that space twice, but |
| 22:48.25 | nevcairiel | why do you have rogue one already |
| 22:48.35 | Gnarfoz | because... why not :P |
| 22:48.39 | znf | why did you even buy that? |
| 22:48.45 | Gnarfoz | I don't/didn't |
| 22:49.05 | Timmeh | I'm going to miss my cinema subscription when I move :-( |
| 22:49.10 | znf | ah, you stole the car |
| 22:49.11 | Gnarfoz | it's customary (or even rule) to post bdinfo on torrents on my tracker |
| 22:49.18 | Timmeh | they don't do them where I move to :-( |
| 22:49.26 | nevcairiel | i ordered it, but it doesnt release until may or something |
| 22:49.28 | Gnarfoz | (or mpeg2repair for captures, and such) |
| 22:49.32 | znf | there's cinema subscriptions? |
| 22:49.33 | Gnarfoz | may? really |
| 22:49.38 | nevcairiel | well in germany |
| 22:49.40 | nevcairiel | lets check US |
| 22:49.45 | znf | >br rogue one |
| 22:49.57 | znf | >bd rogue one |
| 22:50.11 | Catal1na | Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016): 03April 4, 2017 (Blu-ray), 04March 24, 2017 (digital) |
| 22:50.13 | Catal1na | Rogue One: A Star Wars Story 3D (Interchangea⦠(2016): Apr 04, 2017 |
| 22:50.17 | znf | that took a fucking lot |
| 22:50.35 | Timmeh | znf: this one in Brussels has them yea, unlimited movies, it's great - especially for my gf who regularly needs to go see them twice because she fell asleep during the first viewing :-P |
| 22:50.36 | nevcairiel | UK has it in april as well, guess i'll get it there |
| 22:50.51 | nevcairiel | our cinema here has subscriptions as well |
| 22:51.03 | znf | ours doesn't :-/ |
| 22:51.04 | nevcairiel | 22⬠a month for unlimited cinema (well, one move every 2 hours) |
| 22:51.08 | nevcairiel | movie* |
| 22:51.12 | Gnarfoz | that's more than fair |
| 22:51.19 | Gnarfoz | considering the regular prices |
| 22:51.20 | znf | >xau 22 eur to ron |
| 22:51.21 | Catal1na | 22.00 eur = 100.27 ron |
| 22:51.24 | znf | yeah, pretty good |
| 22:51.39 | nevcairiel | considering a single movie easily costs 15⬠or so |
| 22:51.40 | Timmeh | â¬18,90 per month here |
| 22:51.54 | znf | it's like 5⬠here |
| 22:51.59 | znf | actually let me see |
| 22:52.00 | Gnarfoz | if our local cinema was better at scheduling OV screenings, I could totally see myself doing that |
| 22:52.30 | Gnarfoz | as it is, they've finally expanded from Wednesday 17:00 (??!?!) as the only time slot to also have one at 22:00 on Tueday |
| 22:52.40 | Gnarfoz | so at least it's possible for me to go there now :P |
| 22:53.18 | znf | >xau 19 ron to eur |
| 22:53.20 | Catal1na | 19.00 ron = 4.16 eur |
| 22:53.29 | znf | 4.16⬠for a ticket |
| 22:53.45 | Timmeh | it's about â¬10 here for a movie |
| 22:53.46 | nevcairiel | cant even buy a coke for that in our cinema :p |
| 22:53.54 | nevcairiel | (the 4â¬) |
| 22:53.54 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: of course I can't say that quality would actually benefit from going from 33980 kbit/s to whatever would fit onto the disc, but it can't really hurt either, can it... or does Blu-Ray also specify a max video bitrate (I bet it does) |
| 22:53.55 | Timmeh | so I'm fairly happy with â¬18,90 per month :-P |
| 22:54.05 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: let me check |
| 22:54.26 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: 40000 |
| 22:54.36 | znf | anyway, the price is not a deterrent for me going to see a movie |
| 22:54.44 | znf | it's just the lack of cinema-worthy movies |
| 22:54.46 | Gnarfoz | as long as the source material still has grain (artificial or not), compression should benefit (however marginally) from it |
| 22:54.54 | *** join/#wowace Takika (~taki@alkoholista.hu) |
| 22:55.30 | Gnarfoz | for ones entirely free from grain (few and far between, sadly)... I imagine there's a point where it's actually transparent? mh |
| 22:55.59 | Gnarfoz | no idea, this is more of a thought experiment, it's not like I can tell the difference. |
| 22:56.06 | nevcairiel | are you sure the disc isnt actually full from extras and more audio |
| 22:56.38 | Gnarfoz | https://haste.smb.wtf/midahuropuyovurevegujiyiqibase |
| 22:56.41 | znf | cold KFC fillet bytes are awesome |
| 22:56.51 | Gnarfoz | hm I guess it's actually more like 3.8 GB free |
| 22:57.02 | Gnarfoz | unless one of these is GiB and it's using the wrong unit |
| 22:57.06 | nevcairiel | 43gb just for the main movie |
| 22:57.11 | nevcairiel | add some extras and whatnot |
| 22:57.13 | Gnarfoz | wait, these are bytes |
| 22:57.23 | Gnarfoz | well, the first size is the total size, isn't it |
| 22:57.32 | nevcairiel | hm yeah i guess |
| 22:57.37 | nevcairiel | its very close to full either way |
| 22:57.40 | Gnarfoz | true |
| 22:57.43 | Gnarfoz | I missed the total size line |
| 22:57.57 | znf | I have never bought a bluray |
| 22:57.58 | znf | or a dvd |
| 22:58.15 | Gnarfoz | all of mine have been presents |
| 22:58.26 | nevcairiel | i buy movies i want to (re-)watch |
| 22:58.45 | znf | actually I don't even know of a person that owns a bluray player (that is not a gaming console) and that actually buys content |
| 22:58.48 | Gnarfoz | sadly, I'm too much of a cheap fuck to do that |
| 22:58.50 | nevcairiel | and i really liked rogue one, so! |
| 22:59.12 | nevcairiel | moved my order to amazon.co.uk, that delivers almost a month earlier |
| 22:59.18 | Gnarfoz | heh |
| 22:59.28 | Gnarfoz | (never got out of ye olde warez mentality on this front, I guess) |
| 22:59.40 | znf | I don't really rewatch movies |
| 22:59.50 | Gnarfoz | I do |
| 22:59.57 | Stanzilla | I'm currently questioning my archiving of tv shows |
| 22:59.58 | znf | so buying them seems completely worthless for me |
| 23:00.05 | Stanzilla | the ones I rewatch are not that many |
| 23:00.33 | nevcairiel | what else am i going to do with my money then buy new harddrives every couple years |
| 23:00.34 | nevcairiel | :p |
| 23:00.38 | Gnarfoz | if I had a "number of times watched" tracker, I bet most of what I have has either 1 or 0 |
| 23:00.47 | znf | buy a car, be always broke |
| 23:00.52 | Timmeh | nevcairiel: need my bank account number for inspiration? :-P |
| 23:00.56 | Gnarfoz | that's what I'm about to do, znf! |
| 23:01.08 | nevcairiel | i basically watched all the tv shows i have at least once |
| 23:01.11 | Gnarfoz | I wonder if Plex tracks number of times watched |
| 23:01.14 | nevcairiel | a good number even a few more times |
| 23:01.20 | znf | trakt.tv does :P |
| 23:01.28 | Gnarfoz | that's not what I said ;) |
| 23:01.59 | Timmeh | I should set Plex or Emby up again.. |
| 23:02.11 | znf | I'm really annoyed that netflix doesn't have a way to scrobble to trakt :( |
| 23:02.40 | znf | https://trakt.tv/users/znuff |
| 23:03.17 | nevcairiel | 0m tv last week |
| 23:03.21 | nevcairiel | that would never ever h appen to me |
| 23:03.33 | znf | that's because I watch stuff on netflix :-/ |
| 23:03.34 | Stanzilla | bad moms was great |
| 23:03.35 | znf | and no scrobble |
| 23:04.26 | znf | kodi scrobbles, but meh |
| 23:04.39 | znf | I'm too lazy to dowload Voyager manually and watch it trough that |
| 23:04.53 | nevcairiel | voyager is kinda meh anyway |
| 23:05.05 | nevcairiel | too many filler episodes with boring nothingness happening |
| 23:05.38 | nevcairiel | i like a series with a continous story |
| 23:06.02 | znf | yup |
| 23:06.04 | Gnarfoz | Many older series took several seasons to switch to that |
| 23:06.13 | Gnarfoz | Many never do |
| 23:06.24 | nevcairiel | it really wasnt the star trek concept |
| 23:06.32 | znf | what I'm seeing is that first initial seasons of Voyager really have much better CGI than DS9 |
| 23:06.35 | znf | I wonder why |
| 23:06.37 | nevcairiel | ds9 is better as its story arcs span longer and wider |
| 23:06.39 | Gnarfoz | I wasn't even talking about star trek |
| 23:06.56 | Gnarfoz | But star trek is a good bad example, mostly |
| 23:07.20 | Gnarfoz | Except ds9 and ent later on |
| 23:07.30 | Gnarfoz | But ent was doomed already at that point |
| 23:07.44 | nevcairiel | nx01 ent? |
| 23:07.47 | Gnarfoz | Yeah |
| 23:07.56 | nevcairiel | that was pretty good too |
| 23:08.14 | nevcairiel | especially the couple extra crazy episodes they did when they knew it was over :D |
| 23:08.32 | znf | that was the first series I watched |
| 23:08.40 | znf | I liked Enterprise |
| 23:08.53 | Gnarfoz | I can't say I dislike any particular trek more than the rest (but I guess that's part of being a star trek fan) |
| 23:09.05 | znf | I can't watch TOS :P |
| 23:09.09 | znf | that's... too bad |
| 23:09.14 | nevcairiel | TOS is just bizzare |
| 23:09.15 | Gnarfoz | Actually, I lied, because I pretend TOS never happened |
| 23:09.25 | znf | yes, TOS never happened |
| 23:09.34 | znf | >tv star trek the original series |
| 23:09.36 | Catal1na | Star Trek 1966 (Ended). Previous Episode: [3x24] Turnabout Intruder on 1969-06-03 (0448 years). Next Episode: not yet scheduled. http://www.tvmaze.com/shows/490/star-trek |
| 23:09.44 | znf | just 3 seasons? |
| 23:09.47 | znf | really? |
| 23:09.48 | Gnarfoz | Yep |
| 23:09.55 | znf | _48 years_ |
| 23:10.00 | Gnarfoz | Also yep |
| 23:10.01 | Timmeh | I rewatched all Star Trek movies recently |
| 23:10.03 | Gnarfoz | Been a while |
| 23:10.04 | Timmeh | that was fun, really |
| 23:10.14 | nevcairiel | when i was still young, i really liked voyager, but trying to re-watch it a couple years ago i noticed how boring most of its filler stuff was |
| 23:10.26 | Gnarfoz | Even the TOS movies are far better than TOS itself |
| 23:10.27 | Timmeh | nevcairiel: yea, I had the same thing |
| 23:10.38 | Gnarfoz | Hah, similar |
| 23:10.47 | nevcairiel | the original star trek movies are pretty good |
| 23:10.53 | nevcairiel | far above TOS |
| 23:11.03 | Gnarfoz | It's not as obvious when the only way to watch it is one episode per week |
| 23:11.19 | Gnarfoz | (on Sat1) |
| 23:11.23 | nevcairiel | hehe |
| 23:11.33 | Gnarfoz | Or from xdcc Bots on efnet |
| 23:11.51 | Gnarfoz | Glorious VCD releases |
| 23:12.07 | nevcairiel | not sure such a concept would work at all these days, some story arcs and some soap-opera-in-space episodes..^^ |
| 23:12.29 | Gnarfoz | VCDs have like what, VGA resolution? |
| 23:12.38 | znf | at most |
| 23:12.54 | nevcairiel | 352x288 |
| 23:13.00 | znf | oh god :D |
| 23:13.02 | nevcairiel | (for PAL) |
| 23:13.12 | Gnarfoz | XviD took over soon enough |
| 23:13.35 | znf | original xvid stuff was, what? 480p? |
| 23:13.38 | nevcairiel | super videocd was 480x576! |
| 23:13.44 | znf | 576!!! |
| 23:13.47 | Gnarfoz | Could have been anything, really |
| 23:13.49 | Stanzilla | oh damn, we shared the shit out of those |
| 23:14.04 | Gnarfoz | But probably PAL or NTSC resolutions |
| 23:14.16 | znf | I remember watching my first DivX |
| 23:14.20 | znf | oh god, so much quality at the time |
| 23:14.39 | znf | a full movie on a single cd! |
| 23:15.01 | Gnarfoz | IRCing with SwiftKey is too slow, maybe I should get off the loo 8-) |
| 23:15.07 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 23:15.43 | nevcairiel | speaking of scifi, i wonder if dark matter resumes anytime soon |
| 23:15.46 | nevcairiel | checks |
| 23:15.48 | znf | I think they were 576p, right? |
| 23:15.54 | znf | 720 x 576 |
| 23:16.02 | nevcairiel | thats dvd resolution |
| 23:16.05 | znf | yeah |
| 23:16.07 | Gnarfoz | It's a funny thing in this age, you never know who's tweeting/whatsapp-ing/IRCing at you while on the loo |
| 23:16.10 | nevcairiel | rips w ere probably lower |
| 23:16.18 | znf | rips were 1:1 afaik? |
| 23:16.26 | znf | that's how I remember |
| 23:16.36 | nevcairiel | good ones were, but not all of them |
| 23:16.42 | Timmeh | Gnarfoz: you can often tell by people capitalising the first word of their sentences :-P |
| 23:16.54 | Timmeh | Gnarfoz: capitalised -> loo |
| 23:17.16 | Gnarfoz | Timmeh: with a little discipline, that's easy to beat |
| 23:17.26 | Timmeh | hence "often" |
| 23:17.32 | nevcairiel | So i can just fool you all now? |
| 23:17.49 | nevcairiel | Just by forming proper sentencens? |
| 23:17.54 | Gnarfoz | Time to turn off auto-capitalization at sentence start |
| 23:17.57 | Timmeh | :-D |
| 23:18.17 | Timmeh | the things we can discuss around midnight |
| 23:18.25 | nevcairiel | You do know someone uses a phone client when they start using emojis, though. |
| 23:18.47 | Gnarfoz | I had to scroll to SwiftKey's text-emoji section |
| 23:18.54 | Timmeh | emojis like the actual unicode versions? |
| 23:19.00 | nevcairiel | yes |
| 23:19.07 | Timmeh | yea, that kinda gives it away |
| 23:19.09 | Gnarfoz | ð²ð²ð² |
| 23:19.23 | nevcairiel | I should figure out if i can make quassel show emojis in color, and not just b/w |
| 23:19.23 | znf | I mostly never use emojis |
| 23:19.38 | nevcairiel | probably need to update Qt |
| 23:20.03 | znf | I couldn't use color ones on hexchat |
| 23:20.04 | Timmeh | ð |
| 23:20.13 | znf | due to gtk (pango?) not supporting them |
| 23:20.31 | nevcairiel | yeah desktop software is slow to adopt them |
| 23:20.41 | znf | question is... why? |
| 23:20.56 | nevcairiel | because font stuff is hard |
| 23:21.06 | znf | why is that hard? |
| 23:21.10 | Timmeh | my terminal doesn't like most of those things, perhaps I should set a more modern font rather than -misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--13-120-75-75-c-60-iso10646-1 |
| 23:21.11 | nevcairiel | and there is like 10 a pproaches to colored glyphs |
| 23:21.44 | nevcairiel | basic b/w emojis are just ordinary unicode characters |
| 23:21.58 | znf | and colored fonts are a blend of svg and other craps |
| 23:21.58 | nevcairiel | so any app that can render unicode and has a font with the emojis in them should be able to display them |
| 23:22.08 | *** join/#wowace Squishy (~textual@162-223-221-68.cpe.ngl.ninja) |
| 23:22.19 | nevcairiel | but colored requires magic |
| 23:23.15 | znf | let's not forget http://www.colorfonts.wtf/ |
| 23:23.43 | Timmeh | time for me to head off, was fun chatting about random shits :-) |
| 23:23.45 | Timmeh | .o/ |
| 23:24.15 | nevcairiel | see, every platform has its own color font format |
| 23:24.24 | nevcairiel | which makes that really annoying to write portable software |
| 23:25.18 | znf | write the new shit supporting only svg, done |
| 23:25.59 | znf | it's quite funny that only Edge does all formats |
| 23:26.28 | nevcairiel | edge is probably one of the technologically most advanced browsers we have, unfortunately they disregarded user experience some =p |
| 23:27.49 | znf | so, back to what I was saying |
| 23:27.58 | znf | why didn't DS9 use the CGI that Voyager uses? |
| 23:28.09 | nevcairiel | it appears Qt 5.7 supports color fonts, should upgrade my Quassel to that |
| 23:28.37 | znf | space battles in late seasons of DS9 were using old crappy looking effects |
| 23:28.44 | znf | while Voyager uses pewpew computers |
| 23:30.26 | Gnarfoz | Does it? I don't remember one being particularly better than the other |
| 23:30.43 | Gnarfoz | And why is the wrong question anyway |
| 23:30.59 | znf | do you remember ship explosions in DS9? |
| 23:31.09 | znf | they looked like cheap fireworks |
| 23:31.10 | Gnarfoz | Just look at the mess making Blu-Ray ds9 and voy very unlikely |
| 23:31.31 | znf | I'm actually quite sure that they filmed actual fireworks |
| 23:31.38 | Gnarfoz | of course they did |
| 23:31.46 | znf | while voy actually has nice cgi explosions |
| 23:31.50 | nevcairiel | yeah voy and ds9 will likely not be HD remastered |
| 23:32.04 | znf | also, DS9 - the spacestation is just a small-scale model filmed in a dark room |
| 23:32.10 | znf | voyager the ship is actual cgi |
| 23:32.22 | Gnarfoz | Pretty sure voy also uses practical effects and models for most things? |
| 23:32.31 | znf | I'm quite sure the ship is cgi |
| 23:33.15 | Gnarfoz | Maybe for star trek's 100th anniversary |
| 23:33.29 | Gnarfoz | But the work required really doesn't become less |
| 23:33.44 | znf | good thing they at least made the TNG one |
| 23:33.48 | znf | it was watchable |
| 23:33.57 | znf | DS9 at least had a good story |
| 23:34.45 | nevcairiel | http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/CGI .. read the second paragraph under "tentative beginnings", it has some history on cgi use between ds9 and voyager |
| 23:34.47 | znf | voyager so far is like a background noise show :-/ |
| 23:34.53 | nevcairiel | basically, the vfx people were old school =p |
| 23:35.38 | nevcairiel | in the mid 90s when these two shows were made, cgi was only just coming |
| 23:37.14 | Gnarfoz | they filmed on film and then went straight to video |
| 23:37.31 | Gnarfoz | and then did the effects compositing (cgi or not) there |
| 23:37.37 | Gnarfoz | so... stuff was expensive still, back then |
| 23:39.43 | Gnarfoz | gotta keep in mind, most Trek is old |
| 23:39.49 | nevcairiel | indeed |
| 23:39.51 | nevcairiel | quite old |
| 23:40.08 | Gnarfoz | even the newest one is has been over for 12 years |
| 23:40.12 | Gnarfoz | that's terrible |
| 23:40.18 | Gnarfoz | new ways to feel old |
| 23:40.28 | nevcairiel | enterprise is the newest series, and it started in 2001 |
| 23:40.32 | Gnarfoz | ended in 2005 |
| 23:40.39 | nevcairiel | luckily they made enterprise in HD already |
| 23:40.46 | nevcairiel | voy ended in what, 99 |
| 23:40.48 | Gnarfoz | only starting in s3, I think |
| 23:41.14 | Gnarfoz | or rather, maybe they made all of it in HD, but only broadcast from then on in HD? |
| 23:41.21 | nevcairiel | enterprise was entirely mastered in HD, in the later seasons they even stopped using film for digital cameras |
| 23:41.56 | Gnarfoz | ah, maybe that's what I was recalling, switching to digital cameras |
| 23:42.10 | nevcairiel | there are blurays of all seasons anyway |
| 23:42.29 | Gnarfoz | sure, I just watched a bunch of ENT on the weekend |
| 23:42.34 | nevcairiel | hehe |
| 23:42.39 | Gnarfoz | (so much for rewatching shows) |
| 23:43.26 | Gnarfoz | http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Undeveloped_Star_Trek:_Enterprise_episodes#Proposed_fifth_season_episodes |
| 23:43.33 | nevcairiel | i pondered rewatching BSG sometime ago |
| 23:43.33 | Gnarfoz | neat |
| 23:43.38 | Gnarfoz | yeah, I should do that |
| 23:43.53 | Gnarfoz | although of course some of BSG's charm relies on not knowing the end |
| 23:43.58 | nevcairiel | i guess |
| 23:44.12 | Gnarfoz | but it was a good show in any case |
| 23:44.35 | nevcairiel | anyway more mirror universe ent episodes would have been fun =p |
| 23:45.38 | znf | interesting |
| 23:47.25 | znf | >tv star trek discovery |
| 23:47.27 | Catal1na | Star Trek: Discovery SOON (In Development). Next Episode: not yet scheduled. http://www.tvmaze.com/shows/7480/star-trek-discovery |
| 23:47.27 | znf | maybe... |
| 23:48.46 | nevcairiel | does that use the old or the new universe |
| 23:49.15 | znf | old |
| 23:49.33 | nevcairiel | because the showrunner was involved with two of the new movies |
| 23:49.42 | znf | http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5171438/faq?ref_=tt_faq_1#.2.1.1 |
| 23:50.22 | nevcairiel | guess the correct answer is "both" |
| 23:50.35 | znf | As such, the series will be situated in the Prime Universe, |
| 23:50.38 | nevcairiel | because it plays in the timeline before either :p |
| 23:51.16 | znf | what bugs me about star trek is how sparks fly when the ship is damaged |
| 23:51.17 | nevcairiel | (not counting enterprise, which could easily play in both as well) |
| 23:51.31 | znf | the whole effects of the time were... meh |
| 23:51.44 | Gnarfoz | Rather than utilizing videotape playback, the displays on the bridge were fed to the set's monitors from Apple G4 Cube computers (of which there were about fifteen to twenty) using CD playback. |
| 23:52.08 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 23:52.31 | Gnarfoz | just goes to show how far "practical effects" sometimes went |
| 23:52.43 | Gnarfoz | and that's about Enterprise, the newest of them all |
| 23:52.55 | nevcairiel | o.o |
| 23:52.58 | Gnarfoz | http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/0/0d/Enterprise_G4_Cubes.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130308200411&path-prefix=en |
| 23:52.59 | znf | let's hope discovery airs this year |
| 23:53.19 | Gnarfoz | it's "in development", so I wouldn't count on that |
| 23:53.34 | Gnarfoz | I know it's scheduled for 2017 |
| 23:53.36 | znf | it was supposed to be aired on 17th May or something like that |
| 23:53.37 | znf | yeah |
| 23:53.39 | Gnarfoz | but... well, maybe |
| 23:53.45 | Gnarfoz | and it's not "airing" anyway |
| 23:54.05 | znf | yeah, I guess |
| 23:54.06 | Gnarfoz | it's on CBS All Access, which is probably going to kill it before it even gets a chance to take off |
| 23:54.13 | nevcairiel | its a bit of a shame they are locking it away like that, cant help but wonder if that might reduce its popularity q uite a bit |
| 23:54.37 | znf | and budget |
| 23:54.43 | Gnarfoz | nice try, but why not admit nobody wants to pay for CBS all access and instead cooperate with Netflix and Amazon? |
| 23:55.00 | nevcairiel | tv networks gotta try to save themself somehow |
| 23:55.19 | Gnarfoz | yeah... probably a side-effect of the IP being owned by a TV network |
| 23:56.02 | nevcairiel | original new ideas are hard, can try to milk star trek some |
| 23:56.12 | znf | I want Universe back :( |
| 23:56.23 | nevcairiel | what universe |
| 23:56.26 | znf | SG:U |
| 23:56.30 | nevcairiel | that sucked |
| 23:56.36 | znf | Season 2 was awesome |
| 23:57.12 | znf | it was finally getting awesome |
| 23:57.15 | znf | then they axed it |
| 23:57.26 | Gnarfoz | the fate of many a show |
| 23:57.30 | Gnarfoz | took to long to take off |
| 23:57.54 | znf | their intention of not having a main villain backfired I guess |
| 23:58.01 | znf | and they started doing that in season 2, but it was too late |
| 23:58.06 | znf | then they switched the time-slot, too |
| 23:58.37 | znf | also apparently episodes were expensive as hell to procude |
| 23:58.40 | znf | produce |
