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| 07:34.46 | Phixion | u wat Fisker |
| 07:51.45 | quiescens | go to sleep |
| 07:51.48 | quiescens | o.o |
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| 08:27.49 | Phixion | why tho |
| 08:29.00 | mitch0 | didum |
| 08:36.34 | quiescens | sleep is good o.o |
| 08:38.20 | Phixion | proove it |
| 08:44.01 | bluspacecow | sit si Monday night in nz |
| 08:44.25 | bluspacecow | is Monday night in NZ. Monday nights are graveyard shift for me. No sleepy for me tonight |
| 08:44.32 | Phixion | its monday morning in ger |
| 08:44.46 | Phixion | just arrived at work, so sleep is not an option |
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| 17:33.54 | Megalon | https://www.pcpowerplay.com.au/news/how-normal-is-cheating-at-pubg-in-china-very,488581 that's one way to market your laptop in china |
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| 18:18.52 | *** topic/#wowace is https://wowace.com/ | 7.3.x ToC: 70300 | https://wowace.com/paste/ | http://lua.org | This channel is logged, via purl | Vote on Twitch 2FA options: https://goo.gl/CWiHFi https://goo.gl/snFnWY https://goo.gl/SXoS7s https://goo.gl/StjdMd |
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| 20:51.46 | nevcairiel | any of the germanos or europeans noticing bad internet just now? |
| 20:51.52 | nevcairiel | i hear rumors that de-cix went down |
| 20:52.23 | Megalon | my porn is still loading, no issues here 8) |
| 20:54.02 | Stanzilla | yeah |
| 20:55.26 | Gnarfoz | I had some packet loss over the last... hours? |
| 20:55.38 | Gnarfoz | could have been my line, though |
| 20:55.56 | nevcairiel | i noticed first signs around 21:40 when like 90% of the people on this TS got thrown out |
| 20:56.01 | Gnarfoz | https://www.de-cix.net/ well |
| 20:56.06 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 20:58.00 | nevcairiel | i still notice packet loss and latency and a lot my data seems to go through amsterdam now, which i dont think is normal :p |
| 20:58.04 | Gnarfoz | guess DTAG's xenophobic peering policy pays off? ^^ |
| 20:59.03 | znf | nope, seems fine so far for us |
| 20:59.36 | Gnarfoz | don't you have an IX closer to you anyway? |
| 21:00.35 | znf | most of our internet comes from germany tough :P |
| 21:00.40 | silentium | https://twitter.com/tbals/status/983446184713957377 there is a power outage at one of the data centres where decix infrastructure is located |
| 21:01.30 | nevcairiel | shouldnt they have full backup power for a couple hours |
| 21:01.38 | znf | even we have it :P |
| 21:01.52 | znf | plus, generator can be refueled continously |
| 21:01.58 | silentium | the message in the screenshot is from 20:00, so ⦠|
| 21:02.11 | nevcairiel | yeah any good setup has enough on-site diesel to get by until you can get refueling trucks going |
| 21:03.18 | znf | we can run 8 hours at full load (afaik) on the tank of the genny |
| 21:03.33 | znf | that's 750kVA |
| 21:04.28 | Megalon | so 750k Watt :P |
| 21:04.35 | Gnarfoz | considering DE-CIX itself should be "just" network stuff... keeping that alive should be easy |
| 21:04.36 | znf | 130L/hour, 1150L total |
| 21:04.38 | znf | Megalon: no |
| 21:04.54 | Gnarfoz | but they're hosted in various DCs around Frankfurt, probably all of which also do regular hosting ^^ |
| 21:04.57 | znf | 750kVA is 750kW /if/ power factor is 1.00 |
| 21:05.18 | znf | but that's only in DC current |
| 21:05.23 | znf | AC works differently |
| 21:05.31 | Gnarfoz | uhh... what |
| 21:05.37 | znf | ? |
| 21:05.56 | Gnarfoz | power factor is different for AC or DC (also who cares about DC)? |
| 21:06.18 | znf | https://i.imgur.com/ie2u0qT.png |
| 21:06.20 | Gnarfoz | it's how much the current "trails" the voltage, when looking at an oscilloscope |
| 21:07.20 | znf | my network equipment has a PF of 94% |
| 21:07.36 | znf | while my mining rigs fluctuate between 96 and 99% |
| 21:08.03 | Gnarfoz | that's great and all, but how does it explain what you just said :p |
| 21:08.30 | znf | I just said that 750kVA is not exactly 750kW |
| 21:08.42 | Gnarfoz | you said something else as well, to which I posed a question |
| 21:08.42 | znf | (uh, actually another switch is at 40% PF) |
| 21:09.07 | Gnarfoz | obviously real power != apparent power, that's why there's different terms for that :p |
| 21:10.07 | Gnarfoz | (thankfully only relevant when you provide your own power, which was the scenario; utilities don't bill you in apparent power (unless your overall power factor is horrible, I guess)) |
| 21:10.08 | silentium | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power#Active,_reactive,_and_apparent_power has a list of terms, might help if everyone uses the same semantics :) |
| 21:10.24 | znf | heh, this switch is using 10W, but 25VA |
| 21:10.34 | znf | I guess it's shitty power supply? |
| 21:10.36 | Gnarfoz | real and apparent, I don't think we need anything else? :P |
| 21:10.37 | Stanzilla | znf: https://www.droid-life.com/2018/04/09/lg-g7-thinq-renders/ |
| 21:10.56 | znf | Stanzilla: thx |
| 21:11.06 | znf | notch :( |
| 21:11.33 | Stanzilla | not sure why everyone is hating on the notch |
| 21:11.34 | Gnarfoz | leave Markus out of this |
| 21:11.53 | znf | well, in this case, there's still a bezel |
| 21:11.54 | Stanzilla | I even like double notch http://winfuture.de/news,102672.html |
| 21:11.56 | znf | bottom and top |
| 21:11.58 | Gnarfoz | because it's a stupid design feature that everyone is jumping on the bandwagon on? :D |
| 21:12.08 | znf | ...what the fuck? |
| 21:12.40 | Megalon | Stanzilla wants an all-notch phone |
| 21:12.41 | Stanzilla | well there is not much you can do if you want more screen and less bezel |
| 21:12.48 | Stanzilla | the other way is camera inside of the display |
| 21:12.54 | Gnarfoz | Xiaomi already proved otherwise |
| 21:12.58 | Stanzilla | yea |
| 21:12.59 | znf | *nod* |
| 21:13.17 | Gnarfoz | you could just... not have a selfie camera! |
| 21:13.21 | Gnarfoz | two birds with one stone |
| 21:13.21 | Stanzilla | honestly dont care if it looks good |
| 21:13.37 | znf | Gnarfoz: I kind of like the speaker grill and my ambient sensor :P |
| 21:13.39 | Megalon | lol, but how would the instagram peepz make them selfies then????? |
| 21:13.50 | Gnarfoz | Megalon: in front of mirrors, oldschool |
| 21:14.04 | znf | they're already making them in mirrors |
| 21:14.08 | znf | so there's #context |
| 21:14.10 | znf | you know... :P |
| 21:14.13 | Gnarfoz | no, I don't |
| 21:14.17 | Gnarfoz | and I'm thankful for that |
| 21:14.19 | Megalon | but it's quite a bit of work to carry a mirror around |
| 21:14.25 | znf | the notch is stupid |
| 21:14.40 | Megalon | apple did it, so everyone has to copy |
| 21:14.47 | znf | It's stupid on iphonex, it's stupid on android |
| 21:14.51 | znf | it was stupid on essential |
| 21:15.15 | Gnarfoz | it's just another thing Apple didn't do first, but as soon as they did it, everyone had to copy it |
| 21:15.32 | Gnarfoz | they should make a phone that smells like shit for 2 years, I bet even that would be copied |
| 21:15.56 | znf | call it "steve job's mummified fecal matter smell" |
| 21:16.04 | znf | and produce just 100.000 units |
| 21:16.09 | znf | watch the apple stock skyrocket |
| 21:17.57 | znf | ...actually that's not a bad business idea |
| 21:18.32 | znf | in other news, 1280x720 sucks |
| 21:18.41 | znf | can't wait to get back home tomorow to my 1440p scren |
| 21:19.49 | znf | here lies Megalon |
| 21:19.51 | znf | he will be missed |
| 21:22.21 | Gnarfoz | so, I looked it up myself and confirmed what I thought in the first place |
| 21:23.08 | Gnarfoz | this: <znf> 750kVA is 750kW /if/ power factor is 1.00 <znf> but that's only in DC current <znf> AC works differently <-- did indeed not make any sense since DC power factor is always 1 |
| 21:23.35 | znf | ...so how did I not say that? |
| 21:24.11 | Gnarfoz | ? |
| 21:24.16 | Gnarfoz | you said the opposite |
| 21:24.42 | Gnarfoz | 750 VA is 750W if power factor is 1.00, but only in DC |
| 21:24.45 | Gnarfoz | AC works differently |
| 21:25.10 | Gnarfoz | which makes no sense, since power factor only exists in AC in the first place o_o |
| 21:25.33 | znf | I'm pretty sure I said the same thing |
| 21:25.55 | Gnarfoz | if that was your intent then maybe my translation matrix is b0rken :D |
| 21:26.13 | znf | I meant "pf = 1.00 is only true in DC curent" basically |
| 21:26.16 | Gnarfoz | if you were trying to say "VA=W if PF=1, and that doesn't happen unless you're using DC"? |
| 21:26.42 | znf | I've never seen 1 (100%) in AC |
| 21:26.45 | nevcairiel | the thing is, you never use DC, because shit is AC at some point anyway |
| 21:27.15 | Gnarfoz | unless you have a DC supply, which... is a thing |
| 21:27.39 | Gnarfoz | albeit still rare |
| 21:28.29 | znf | anyway, my point was that Megalon was wrong... and generators are labeled in kVA |
| 21:28.47 | nevcairiel | you would need a AC to DC converter at some point, no? or can you actually get DC from the power company? that would be odd, DC is much worse traveling high distances |
| 21:28.48 | znf | they're never "750kW" |
| 21:28.59 | Gnarfoz | yeah, since it's a power source |
| 21:29.08 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: the latter |
| 21:29.33 | znf | so you can't just assume that 750kVA = 750kW, unless you're actually talking about DC current which is the only thing where you can assume PF=1.00 |
| 21:29.40 | nevcairiel | i mean, it somehow makes since, since like 80% of w hat we use probably uses DC anyway |
| 21:29.41 | znf | but at that point it doesn't make any sense |
| 21:29.53 | nevcairiel | s/since/sense/ |
| 21:30.02 | znf | aren't old US power grids using DC current in some remote areas? |
| 21:30.04 | Gnarfoz | I assume it's when you have a DC and the power company puts a substation on your place |
| 21:30.40 | Gnarfoz | actually I have no clue, I only know you can order off the shelf servers from Dell and such with DC power supplies |
| 21:31.19 | Gnarfoz | I assume that only makes sense when you do the AC/DC conversion far enough up the line that it's more efficient to do it there (scale and such) |
| 21:31.42 | nevcairiel | i suppose its possible that someone might run a DC data center and use one huge-ass converter instead of having each component do it on its own |
| 21:31.59 | Gnarfoz | znf: if you want to see PF=1, just plug a big resistor into a wall socket :P |
| 21:32.03 | nevcairiel | also takes a bit of heat already out of the servers into one component |
| 21:32.38 | Gnarfoz | I'm not about to google "DC DCs" |
| 21:34.36 | nevcairiel | spell it out |
| 21:35.17 | Gnarfoz | if you want a DC DC in the US capital, that'd be a DC DC DC |
| 21:35.31 | nevcairiel | first article makes it sound like its a pretty good deal but higher initial investment |
| 21:36.30 | Gnarfoz | heh, one benefit of using DC power: no more worrying about distributing loads across AC phases |
| 21:41.05 | nebula | i want to say it's not unusual for industrial buildings to get DC and do their own stepping and conversions |
| 21:41.27 | znf | I have nightmares about phase balancing :( |
| 21:46.57 | Gnarfoz | RE: de-cix: if the DC is running on backup power, why is de-cix affected? :D |
| 21:46.59 | Gnarfoz | sounds like a great setup |
| 21:48.05 | nevcairiel | thats the question |
| 21:49.24 | nevcairiel | someone probably has a bad day |
| 21:49.27 | nevcairiel | or bad night as it were |
| 21:49.56 | Gnarfoz | if this was a US company, we'd long be staring at some statuspage.io thingamabob |
| 21:50.14 | nevcairiel | heh |
| 21:50.24 | Gnarfoz | biggest internet exchange in the world doesn't give a shit, nginx 502 error page it is |
| 21:50.52 | Gnarfoz | (tbh it's not like 99.9999% of internet users even know what an IX is) |
| 21:51.09 | nevcairiel | https://twitter.com/DECIX/status/983461250528169984 thats all they said so far |
| 21:51.36 | Gnarfoz | that does sound more like their website is down than anything else |
| 21:51.52 | Gnarfoz | OTOH "operations" should be their actual core business ^^ |
| 21:53.17 | nevcairiel | biggest internet exchange of the world, and someone stumbled over the power cable |
| 21:53.33 | Gnarfoz | I wonder by what metric AMS-IX claims to be "the leading internet exchange" https://twitter.com/AMS_IX |
| 21:53.34 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 21:54.20 | Gnarfoz | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_exchange_points_by_size it's close, though |
| 21:54.57 | nevcairiel | its a bit cheating because they count like all their venues all accross the world |
| 21:55.41 | Gnarfoz | why is that cheating? isn't that just the service they provide? |
| 21:56.25 | nevcairiel | well like you could have a dozen small ones spread around the world and be considered bigger then a single one with 10x the capacity of any other other ones individually |
| 21:56.49 | Gnarfoz | sure, but isn't that the point? |
| 21:56.49 | nevcairiel | i would prefer a metric that compares individual exchange points, not the size of the c ompany t hat runs them |
| 21:57.02 | Gnarfoz | they're not individual, though, are they? |
| 21:57.17 | nevcairiel | its not like they run dedicated lines to other continents |
| 21:57.29 | nevcairiel | they go through the same shared lines everything goes through |
| 21:57.59 | Gnarfoz | i.e. someone connected at de-cix in Istanbul can talk to someone connected at de-cix in Frankfurt at the same network level |
| 21:59.23 | Gnarfoz | too bad the website I'd like to look at for more info is down :P |
| 22:00.37 | nevcairiel | sure things may be "closer" on a logical level, but is that really a huge deal? if i'm in india, where both AMS-IX and DE-CIX are, and I want to talk to the USA where also both of those are, how big would a difference be if I connect both sides to the same or to opposing IXes? |
| 22:02.08 | Gnarfoz | find a looking glass site hosted in india and find out, I guess :D |
| 22:04.45 | Gnarfoz | wtf why can't these indian LG's not resolve heise.de :P |
| 22:05.25 | nevcairiel | haha |
| 22:05.40 | nevcairiel | heise dns is reachable through de-cix! |
| 22:05.40 | nevcairiel | :d |
| 22:06.18 | Gnarfoz | seems more like they're shit in general |
| 22:08.30 | Gnarfoz | (also, it would need to be a looking glass that uses connectivity from one of those... and apparently most companies big enough to host a looking glass have no need for that) |
| 22:08.52 | znf | >tv troy fall of a city |
| 22:08.53 | Catal1na | Troy: Fall of a City 2018 (Running). Previous Episode: [1x8] Offering on 2018-04-07 (042 days). Next Episode: not yet scheduled. http://www.tvmaze.com/shows/25882/troy-fall-of-a-city |
| 22:08.54 | znf | anyone seen this? |
| 22:08.59 | nevcairiel | no |
| 22:09.28 | nevcairiel | ratings seem poor to miserable |
| 22:09.36 | Gnarfoz | http://lg.as6453.net/lg/ Tata |
| 22:09.52 | Gnarfoz | first hop seems to be in France? wtf |
| 22:09.57 | Gnarfoz | I picked Mumbai! |
| 22:10.39 | nevcairiel | thats the one i also used, got marseille next |
| 22:10.55 | Gnarfoz | Expanse tomorrow :O |
| 22:11.02 | nevcairiel | oh yeah finally |
| 22:11.07 | nevcairiel | i re-watched it last month |
| 22:11.41 | nevcairiel | chennai doesnt really work either |
| 22:11.54 | nevcairiel | it goes chennai -> mumbai -> you know the rest |
| 22:11.54 | nevcairiel | :D |
| 22:12.40 | znf | wanted to watch something crappy on netflix |
| 22:12.41 | znf | https://i.imgur.com/OQx5uOT.png |
| 22:12.42 | znf | nope |
| 22:13.29 | Gnarfoz | wtf "European Spanish" |
| 22:13.32 | Gnarfoz | it's called Spanish |
| 22:13.38 | nevcairiel | muricans |
| 22:13.48 | nevcairiel | spanish is what they speak in mexico, we have european spanish |
| 22:13.49 | znf | [European German] |
| 22:13.56 | nebula | it's almost like there's esES and esMX |
| 22:14.00 | Gnarfoz | it's not even my language but shit like that annoys me |
| 22:14.12 | nevcairiel | nebula: except that esES was there first! |
| 22:14.23 | nebula | pfft |
| 22:14.30 | nevcairiel | and then invvaded your puny continent |
| 22:15.03 | nebula | it's like there is english and british english |
| 22:15.06 | nebula | :D |
| 22:15.25 | Gnarfoz | enGB and enUS, you mean? :P |
| 22:15.27 | nevcairiel | i always like thinking back how some of those countries once were really strong powers, like spain, portugal, netherlands .. and today, they are all pretty much nothing |
| 22:16.04 | nevcairiel | the spanish and portuguese infected like half the world with their language, afterall |
| 22:16.17 | Stanzilla | it's actually called international english in some MS products |
| 22:16.31 | znf | which is weird, because at least for Portugal, there's not many countries that still speak portoguese |
| 22:16.33 | Gnarfoz | whatever that's supposed to be :D |
| 22:16.53 | znf | at least Spain have Mexico and a lot of other latin countries, afaik |
| 22:17.00 | nevcairiel | znf: except like half of south america, including brazil, which has a shitload of people |
| 22:17.12 | znf | I forgot about brazil! |
| 22:17.16 | Gnarfoz | it happens |
| 22:17.31 | Stanzilla | the other non spanish south american countries -brazil do french? or? |
| 22:17.35 | nevcairiel | 220 million native speakers according to wikipedia |
| 22:17.42 | Gnarfoz | but then, ptBR and ptPT are actually different, not like esES and esMX which are almost the same |
| 22:17.59 | Gnarfoz | (IIRC) |
| 22:18.16 | nevcairiel | (and only 10 mil of those are actually in portugal) |
| 22:18.18 | Stanzilla | like new guinea or however you spell that |
| 22:18.29 | Gnarfoz | there's like 3 guineas, so take your pick |
| 22:18.30 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 22:18.41 | Stanzilla | well one of them speak french, no? |
| 22:18.43 | znf | old guinea, guinea and new guinea? |
| 22:18.46 | nevcairiel | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_South_America#/media/File:Languages_of_South_America_(eng).png have a map |
| 22:18.49 | Gnarfoz | french guinea probably does! |
| 22:18.55 | Stanzilla | that makes sense! |
| 22:19.04 | znf | dutch? |
| 22:19.15 | Gnarfoz | one of them has the European space launch center thing |
| 22:19.23 | nevcairiel | the dutch used to be a huge colonial power |
| 22:19.29 | Gnarfoz | has English managed to overtake Spanish as most-widely spoken secondary language, yet? |
| 22:19.29 | nevcairiel | but t hat all went away |
| 22:19.38 | Stanzilla | now all they do is hey and pastries |
| 22:20.04 | znf | whoever the fuck made this zoom gesture in macOS should be slapped |
| 22:20.19 | znf | I always panic >_< |
| 22:20.29 | Gnarfoz | s/this zoom gesture in // |
| 22:21.18 | znf | eh, it's a decent OS for ssh |
| 22:21.25 | znf | iTerm is actually a decent terminal emulator |
| 22:23.05 | Gnarfoz | a decent OS to connect to literally anything else, got it |
| 22:23.34 | Stanzilla | i like macOS :( |
| 22:23.39 | znf | it's meh-ish |
| 22:25.30 | znf | I dislike a lot of things about it |
| 22:25.40 | znf | it was fun earlier, I run out of battery |
| 22:25.42 | nevcairiel | i always want to stab myself when i have to use it |
| 22:25.48 | znf | instant shutdown |
| 22:25.49 | znf | no warning |
| 22:25.59 | znf | but it had enough power to actually hibernate |
| 22:26.20 | znf | you get used to some idiotic things in it |
| 22:26.29 | Stanzilla | the key combos are annoying |
| 22:26.33 | Stanzilla | otherwise I'm fine with it |
| 22:26.54 | znf | to be fair, cmd+c/v is actually quite nice |
| 22:26.58 | Stanzilla | the amount of times I alt + q closed a program when I wanted to type a @.. |
| 22:27.26 | znf | ie: being able to copy/paste from terminal with that combo is actually nice |
| 22:27.35 | znf | ...why would alt+q give you @ ?! |
| 22:27.36 | znf | wtf? |
| 22:27.42 | Stanzilla | german keyboard |
| 22:27.46 | Stanzilla | alt is where our alt gr is |
| 22:27.47 | nevcairiel | alt-q is close app |
| 22:27.48 | Gnarfoz | because alt-gr q = @ on deDE |
| 22:28.00 | nevcairiel | qhich is dumb |
| 22:28.05 | nevcairiel | which* |
| 22:28.18 | Gnarfoz | (so, alt-right! \o) |
| 22:28.25 | Stanzilla | it happens all the time, I never remember :D |
| 22:28.40 | nevcairiel | i hate apple so much for all the differences in keyboard layout |
| 22:28.43 | nevcairiel | its like, why |
| 22:28.47 | Gnarfoz | should just remove all right hand alt keys from keyboards everywhere, that's the alt right problem solved right there |
| 22:28.48 | nevcairiel | why do you have to be special |
| 22:28.53 | znf | uhm |
| 22:29.02 | znf | why would you use a de keyboard? :-| |
| 22:29.16 | znf | weirdos |
| 22:29.19 | Gnarfoz | when in Germany, do as ze Germans do? |
| 22:29.22 | znf | qwerty master race |
| 22:29.29 | Stanzilla | considering how often they broke backwards compat, this is certainly an area where they could have done it again :D |
| 22:29.30 | nevcairiel | all the shift number and alt-gr number combinations are different on macos for reasons |
| 22:29.36 | Gnarfoz | why the hell would you assume anyone but nerds use anything other than a German keyboard :P |
| 22:29.37 | nevcairiel | i can never remember where the brackets are i need |
| 22:29.55 | nevcairiel | because the fucking laptop keybaord doesnt have the alt-gr keys painted on |
| 22:30.06 | Gnarfoz | haha |
| 22:30.15 | Gnarfoz | doesn't align with their ~design~ |
| 22:30.33 | znf | on qwerty it's always in the same place :P |
| 22:30.38 | Stanzilla | I wanted to switch to querty for years |
| 22:30.39 | Stanzilla | never did |
| 22:30.41 | Stanzilla | now cba |
| 22:30.48 | Gnarfoz | znf: that's not actually true, btw |
| 22:31.05 | Gnarfoz | since qwerty describes many keyboard layouts |
| 22:31.05 | nevcairiel | i would have to buy new keyboards, and i would lose the german keys |
| 22:31.07 | nevcairiel | so why bother |
| 22:31.32 | Gnarfoz | you would... neither have to switch nor lose german keys |
| 22:31.34 | Stanzilla | brackets mainly |
| 22:31.53 | nevcairiel | well sure if i all i do is switch y and z |
| 22:31.54 | znf | ASCII QWERTY, there you go |
| 22:32.00 | nevcairiel | i assume he actually meant using a US layout |
| 22:32.02 | Stanzilla | [] are the dumbest to reach |
| 22:32.02 | Gnarfoz | ascii is not a keyboard layout, either |
| 22:32.08 | Stanzilla | yes I did |
| 22:32.29 | znf | you really wanna go there, Gnarfoz ? :P |
| 22:32.32 | znf | you know what I mean |
| 22:32.36 | nevcairiel | which has a differnt physical layout |
| 22:32.55 | nevcairiel | like, i totalyl got used to the <> key |
| 22:32.57 | Gnarfoz | znf: you could mean a lot of things, but clearly, only "US layout" makes sense in this context |
| 22:33.14 | Gnarfoz | ANSI key layout is neither here nor there, I'm not convinced I like it more than ISO |
| 22:33.49 | Gnarfoz | either way, ANSI has one key less than ISO, so running a US layout on ISO key layout should not result in any losses |
| 22:33.56 | nevcairiel | I learned typing on a DE layout and i'll die typing on a DE layout, so yeah =p |
| 22:34.16 | znf | I still don't see why the fuck they had to add that stupid extra key between shift and z on ISO |
| 22:34.25 | nevcairiel | i like that one |
| 22:34.31 | nevcairiel | bigger shift wouldnt do any good |
| 22:34.49 | Gnarfoz | shift on the other side is even larger (and thus, percentually even moredumb) |
| 22:35.03 | znf | meanwhile, the ansi layout has that stupid key above enter |
| 22:35.03 | Gnarfoz | znf: because the characters needed to go *somewhere*? :p |
| 22:35.06 | nevcairiel | i practially never use the other sides shift key |
| 22:35.20 | znf | I use both shifts |
| 22:35.21 | nevcairiel | my 10 finger typing isnt perfect |
| 22:35.28 | nevcairiel | its more like 8 and a half |
| 22:35.29 | Stanzilla | I use it while eating and unable to use both hands :D |
| 22:35.34 | Gnarfoz | I use both shifts as well, but I see no reason for them to be this enormous |
| 22:36.17 | znf | Gnarfoz: uhm |
| 22:36.48 | znf | the |\ key (that is on my keyboard) between Z and Shift is the same as the one above my right-shift and before enter |
| 22:37.00 | nevcairiel | the right hand side shift key could definitely make room for one more key, indeed |
| 22:37.22 | znf | even tough it's labeled as # and ~ |
| 22:37.23 | nevcairiel | znf: its a separate key on DE layout anyway |
| 22:37.33 | Gnarfoz | that's probably because you're running a US layout on an ISO keyboard? |
| 22:37.34 | nevcairiel | <>| vs #' |
| 22:37.57 | Gnarfoz | they're definitely different keys on DE ISO |
| 22:38.05 | znf | https://photos.app.goo.gl/60h0i6Kl0XCoEIkJ3 |
| 22:38.11 | znf | (you'll have to zoom in) |
| 22:38.20 | znf | excuse my dirty keyboard |
| 22:38.38 | Gnarfoz | its cleanliness is really besides the point |
| 22:38.42 | Gnarfoz | wtf is that layout |
| 22:38.55 | Gnarfoz | 2 wide nav cluster, aghh |
| 22:38.59 | Gnarfoz | kill it with fire |
| 22:39.25 | Gnarfoz | and yes, whoever made that keyboard layout apparently ran out of stuff to put on the keys. :D |
| 22:39.27 | znf | I like my nav cluster :( |
| 22:39.44 | Gnarfoz | hence ANSI having 1 key less: exactly that key |
| 22:39.47 | znf | I don't know about the standard(s), but all the keyboards I've seen like that have the duplicate key |
| 22:39.55 | nevcairiel | UK ISO qwerty layout should have the one on the right labeled as #~ |
| 22:39.56 | znf | |\ |
| 22:40.02 | nevcairiel | which apparently yours failed |
| 22:40.14 | znf | yes, because they have pound (gbp) on 3 |
| 22:40.35 | nevcairiel | oh you have hash there |
| 22:40.56 | znf | yup |
| 22:41.09 | znf | only the UK layout has GBP symbol there |
| 22:41.10 | nevcairiel | how odd |
| 22:41.17 | nevcairiel | we have § there |
| 22:41.21 | nevcairiel | why ever we needed that |
| 22:41.28 | Gnarfoz | if you can't figure that out |
| 22:41.39 | Stanzilla | I recently ripped out all keys of my keyboard and cleaned them with a toothbrush |
| 22:41.42 | znf | https://www.bakkerelkhuizen.nl/uploads/wysiwyg/HP%20standard%20kb_1.jpg |
| 22:41.45 | Stanzilla | was a whole evening well spent |
| 22:42.05 | nevcairiel | i should do that again some time |
| 22:42.12 | Gnarfoz | clearly, Bureaucracyland keyboard layout needs a § |
| 22:42.27 | znf | I have "ruined" my macbook keyboard yesterday |
| 22:42.37 | znf | I dropped a can of redbull (almost empty) on the laptop (was on a chair) |
| 22:42.47 | znf | didn't leak much, I was able to clean, laptop still alive |
| 22:42.51 | Stanzilla | how do you still have that monitor set to vertical |
| 22:42.53 | nevcairiel | i cant find a single layout with your combination |
| 22:42.57 | nevcairiel | especially the duplicate key |
| 22:43.02 | nevcairiel | maybe its special romanian |
| 22:43.14 | znf | but... I cleaned the keyboard with some wet napkins and I tripped over the caps-lock key |
| 22:43.19 | znf | and I broke one of it's little nubs |
| 22:43.23 | znf | and it's now it's weird |
| 22:43.32 | Gnarfoz | gotta buy a new keyboard now, Apple demands it |
| 22:43.39 | Gnarfoz | actually, probably a whole new laptop! |
| 22:43.40 | znf | dunno https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/3ngs3j/whats_this_keyboard_layout_called/ |
| 22:43.55 | znf | Gnarfoz: did I tell you that I wanted to swap the whole unibody frame from a non-working macbook? |
| 22:44.05 | znf | and the keyboard has 63 (!!!!) screws that hold it in place? |
| 22:45.26 | znf | ...and did I tell you that after about 30 minutes of removing the keyboard from the old one, I realised they're different year unibody chasis and I had to stop? |
| 22:45.27 | znf | :-| |
| 22:45.51 | Gnarfoz | I hope they're all one of Apple's proprietary screw heads to make you realize how wrong you are for even THINKING you could do this |
| 22:46.07 | znf | nah, torx afaik |
| 22:46.26 | nevcairiel | if my iFixit kit can open and close apple phones, it better can handle a keyboard |
| 22:46.40 | znf | Stanzilla: I don't. that was the pic from that night |
| 22:46.43 | Gnarfoz | actually, I'd not be surprised if some of them are pentalobe, some are philips, some are pozidriv, some are the Y kind I don't know the name of, some are torx, and some are security torx |
| 22:46.56 | Gnarfoz | just to fuck with you |
| 22:46.58 | nevcairiel | security torx is such a dumb name |
| 22:47.03 | nevcairiel | as if its hard to get those bits |
| 22:47.05 | znf | (I'm not at home now) |
| 22:47.09 | Gnarfoz | it's what it's called tho, isn't it |
| 22:47.12 | nevcairiel | it is |
| 22:47.14 | nevcairiel | but still dumb |
| 22:47.27 | Gnarfoz | heh |
| 22:48.14 | nevcairiel | you could've given it some kind of entirely new pattern and people would also have had to buy new bits |
| 22:48.20 | nebula | they're not torx, they're pentalobe |
| 22:48.28 | nebula | (apple security screws_ |
| 22:48.51 | Gnarfoz | note how I listed many screw heads, including pentalobe ;-) |
| 22:49.13 | nebula | pfft, i just saw znf's message and skipped ahead to correcting him |
| 22:49.26 | Gnarfoz | duty calls? |
| 22:49.33 | nevcairiel | yeah this set also has pentalobe bits |
| 22:49.38 | nevcairiel | so much for tamper proof =p |
| 22:49.52 | Gnarfoz | tri-point and tri-wing, apparently |
| 22:49.53 | nevcairiel | actually they only call it tamper-resistant |
| 22:50.07 | nevcairiel | still a dumb concept to just make new screw heads to throw off people |
| 22:50.11 | Gnarfoz | and The Empire ("Bristol") |
| 22:50.15 | nevcairiel | they just buy new bits, jeez |
| 22:52.18 | Gnarfoz | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives mortorq! |
| 22:52.42 | znf | iFixit doesn't even sell the keyboard separately |
| 22:52.56 | nevcairiel | i think znf got confused |
| 22:52.58 | znf | they're probably like "no fucking way you'll take that apart, just buy the whole thing, it's not worth it" |
| 22:53.20 | nevcairiel | oh they macbook keyboard |
| 22:53.27 | nevcairiel | yeah those are terrible to exchange |
| 22:53.37 | nevcairiel | when you send them in to apple they basically replace half the device as well |
| 22:53.40 | nevcairiel | and charge you as much |
| 22:53.50 | Gnarfoz | because fuck you, that's why |
| 22:54.25 | znf | I could be wrong remembering that they were torx, seeing it was a few months ago, but I had the right screwdriver in my phone replacement part thingie kit, which just has 2 torx ones and 2 philips ones |
| 22:55.41 | znf | I wanted to buy one of those caddy to replace the ODD |
| 22:55.47 | znf | then I saw it was too much work |
| 22:55.54 | znf | fuck it, don't need a 2nd drive/ssd on this |
| 22:58.27 | nebula | i was gonna put a ssd in my mom's imac...until i realized that to do so i'd have to totally disassemble it and fuck that |
| 23:00.12 | znf | yup :D |
| 23:00.31 | znf | oh, nice. one of the altcoins I worked with has had a price increase by... shitloads today |
| 23:00.34 | znf | neat, made... |
| 23:01.00 | znf | >c [math calc 0.00004500 * 2 * 1000] btc to usd |
| 23:01.01 | Catal1na | 0.09 BTC == 606.1293 USD (04-4.22%) https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin |
| 23:10.55 | Gnarfoz | speaking of keyboard layouts... since I'm just watching this: https://i.imgur.com/0QyqKoc.png |
| 23:13.36 | nevcairiel | wth happend to the ctrl keys |
| 23:13.45 | Gnarfoz | ask Steve |
| 23:14.27 | nebula | i knew a guy that switched caps lock and ctrl, it all makes sense now |
| 23:14.32 | nevcairiel | swapping capslock and ctrl is just so weird |
| 23:14.46 | Gnarfoz | on the other hand, caps lock is utterly pointless :D |
| 23:15.00 | nevcairiel | its a typewritter remnant, yeah |
| 23:15.03 | nevcairiel | -t |
| 23:16.04 | Gnarfoz | not to mention that both caps lock and shift lock exist and some layouts use one and some the other :D |
| 23:19.55 | nevcairiel | but its also in an odd spot on the keyboard that i'm not sure i would want to press whatever replacement key goes there |
| 23:19.55 | nevcairiel | but thats probably just how we learned to use the keyboard |
| 23:25.45 | Gnarfoz | jesus without the key switches in, the rgb is blinding |
| 23:26.09 | Gnarfoz | lol neat, it actually registers without the switches |
| 23:48.04 | znf | Gnarfoz: apparently "ISO US" layout |
| 23:48.13 | znf | with the repeating keys |
| 23:48.53 | Gnarfoz | [00:37:31] <Gnarfoz> that's probably because you're running a US layout on an ISO keyboard? <-- hence this statement |
| 23:49.12 | znf | you are trying to annoy me today for some reasons |
| 23:49.36 | Gnarfoz | what oO |
| 23:50.17 | Gnarfoz | you just repeated what I said an hour ago, that's all I pointed out ^^ the US functional/soft layout doesn't make use of the extra key on the ISO physical layout, hence the redundancy |
| 23:54.21 | Gnarfoz | weird, seems like I have 1 extra clicky switch |
| 23:54.46 | Gnarfoz | I just made my optical keyboard office incompatible ^^ |
| 23:57.38 | Gnarfoz | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3iHV0NvLPI lol |
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