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| 00:46.14 | tate | i'm terrible |
| 00:46.27 | tate | i faked my achievement by telling someone else as my alt and did 7/7 in ds10 |
| 00:46.35 | tate | Destroyer's End.. totally worth it lol |
| 00:51.12 | Fordie | tate, did u have the title in some way too? |
| 00:51.13 | Fordie | no? |
| 00:54.24 | tate | nope :p |
| 00:54.38 | tate | linked armory and got inv, tbh that was way too eez |
| 00:55.12 | Stormscape | "A new report claims via unnamed sources that AMD seriously considered acquiring NVIDIA before deciding to merge with ATI" |
| 00:55.22 | Stormscape | Interesting. |
| 00:55.31 | Stormscape | We might have had PhysX on ATI that way. |
| 00:55.52 | tate | :} |
| 00:55.54 | tate | and uberprices |
| 00:55.57 | tate | with no competition |
| 00:56.04 | Stormscape | Not really. |
| 00:56.11 | Stormscape | It still would have been Radeon versus GeForce. |
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| 01:48.07 | tate | haa i got rid of mah friend |
| 01:48.11 | tate | he was sleeping in my bed |
| 01:48.15 | tate | just as drunk as me |
| 01:50.11 | Fordie | um yeah non-hc dw is a joke |
| 01:50.16 | Fordie | its like lfr |
| 01:50.18 | Fordie | :) |
| 01:50.32 | tate | yea idd |
| 01:50.39 | tate | i had pvped whole cataclysm |
| 01:50.48 | tate | and i started to do some pve nao |
| 01:51.03 | Fordie | aw |
| 01:51.14 | Fordie | pvp gear? |
| 01:51.25 | tate | nop |
| 01:51.31 | tate | done some pugs |
| 01:51.37 | tate | gotta do few to apply in pve-guild |
| 01:51.40 | tate | to get some achies and xp |
| 01:51.46 | tate | http://bit.ly/xrnKCa |
| 01:52.02 | Fordie | Ive compared some pvp gear vs the lfr gier tokens and the pvp gear is better evventho u miss out on stats. Because u get so much higher agility and stuff. |
| 01:52.12 | Fordie | dont know what ur one for then lol |
| 01:52.24 | Fordie | I fell asleep during that sentence so im sorry if its weird haha |
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| 05:03.09 | Fordie | aAnyone know when u get into the "real world" as goblin? What lvl? |
| 05:18.18 | BlackNet | to high |
| 05:30.01 | Fordie | yeah 5 :P |
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| 05:51.05 | BlackNet | 10 days left and i will have *ALL* of the argent tournament mounts and pets |
| 06:15.34 | Fordie | BlackNet, u should get all mounts and pets in game. cooler tht way |
| 06:17.14 | BlackNet | trying that :) |
| 06:17.35 | BlackNet | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/hyjal/Blacknet/mount |
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| 06:23.41 | Fordie | hm |
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| 07:41.05 | Jammer | getting them all is pretty damn hard :p |
| 07:41.55 | Jammer | the raid mounts are so rare and you'll have like whole raid rolling on them |
| 07:42.12 | Jammer | tcg loot cards gonna cost some serious money to get them all |
| 07:43.28 | Jammer | have to buy all collector's editions of various games |
| 07:44.14 | Jammer | not to mention all blizzcon and other promotial items |
| 07:49.27 | BlackNet | not that many promo mounts |
| 07:49.42 | BlackNet | the difficult/expensive/impossible ones are TCG ones |
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| 08:23.46 | Jammer | personally don't really like when things are added to a game that you can't acquire by in-game means |
| 08:34.37 | BlackNet | same |
| 08:34.52 | BlackNet | many/most of those TCG crap is selling for some insane $ |
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| 08:40.05 | BlackNet | http://www.ebay.com/itm/390394368937 here check this out |
| 08:42.02 | Mr_Rabies | i just act like the TCG/pet store doesn't exist |
| 08:43.03 | BlackNet | same |
| 08:43.12 | Mr_Rabies | doesn't bother me |
| 08:43.12 | BlackNet | i exclude that shit on the armory |
| 08:43.19 | Mr_Rabies | i might buy a cub sometime and try to sell it to make some gold |
| 08:44.02 | Mr_Rabies | that's it though |
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| 10:21.02 | Jolt | ehh did they remove the portals from shattrah? |
| 10:24.08 | g0urra | no? |
| 10:25.49 | hylje | yup along with the ones in dally |
| 10:26.01 | g0urra | since when? |
| 10:26.10 | hylje | since cataclysm |
| 10:26.20 | g0urra | the portal to orgrimmar/stormwind is sitll there. |
| 10:26.39 | hylje | then they re-added those later |
| 10:26.52 | hylje | since those were explicitly also taken off as cata was released |
| 10:27.02 | g0urra | yeah, in 4.1 |
| 10:27.05 | hylje | you had to ask a mage to portal you, or walk all the way |
| 10:28.40 | g0urra | I knew that many city portals were removed with cataclysm, but not many know that orgrimmar and stormwind portals were re-added. |
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| 12:59.48 | raspy | weeee |
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| 13:10.49 | raspy | bored |
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| 15:39.07 | Arkaen | ahahahaha |
| 15:39.19 | Arkaen | i just tricks'd a random party member and he died |
| 15:39.22 | Arkaen | and the tank ragequit |
| 15:39.29 | Arkaen | Worth it |
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| 16:04.02 | Freyja | [The Wowhead Blog] Best in Show: A Guide to All Shirts - http://www.wowheadnews.com/blog=201007/best-in-show-a-guide-to-all-shirts |
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| 16:16.14 | Jolt | Hey guys, if I change my payment plan does my card get billed at once or when the time is over on my current game time? |
| 16:20.11 | Djones_ | Arkaen, wut? |
| 16:20.22 | fewyn | when your current game time is over Jolt |
| 16:20.23 | fewyn | iirc |
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| 16:27.26 | Jolt | ok thanks fewyn |
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| 17:32.53 | Jolt | fewyn: wooh Tyreal's charger is so pretty :D |
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| 17:52.24 | robotigger | not enough sparkly imo |
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| 17:56.24 | Jolt | hehe |
| 17:56.25 | fewyn | woo i got a queen's garnet from one of my mote thingies |
| 17:56.35 | Jolt | nice |
| 17:57.29 | BlackNet | ok just got my druid to level 10 |
| 17:57.42 | BlackNet | thinking about either leveling as cat or resto |
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| 18:13.00 | Jolt | nice BlackNet |
| 18:13.02 | Jolt | cat |
| 18:13.08 | BlackNet | k |
| 18:13.16 | Jolt | no downtime really then |
| 18:13.25 | BlackNet | was wanting to try resto. thinking that might be best for bg's |
| 18:13.36 | Jolt | ah |
| 18:13.54 | BlackNet | having some colorblind issues with the combo bar on druids tho |
| 18:14.13 | Jolt | oh ok :/ |
| 18:14.23 | Jolt | What's a good dps meter addon these days? |
| 18:14.33 | BlackNet | i use skada with world of logs |
| 18:14.46 | Jolt | ok |
| 18:14.48 | BlackNet | skada/recount/tinydps are all good but not super super accurate |
| 18:15.02 | Jolt | recount I have tried that before illl use that |
| 18:15.23 | Jolt | I am coming back into wow just changed my payment plan 6 months |
| 18:15.34 | Jolt | and got upgraded my account to annual pass |
| 18:15.35 | BlackNet | you can pay 6m at a time? |
| 18:15.39 | BlackNet | im doing monthly right now |
| 18:15.44 | Jolt | yeah you can |
| 18:15.56 | Jolt | cause i cba doing monhtly :) |
| 18:16.16 | Jolt | my warrior is soon ready for lfrs |
| 18:17.01 | Jolt | feels good to be back |
| 18:17.28 | BlackNet | dont let the retards spoil things for you |
| 18:17.43 | BlackNet | dungeons seem to be less retards in there now while lfr seems loads |
| 18:17.54 | BlackNet | and the new new dungeons are not that bad |
| 18:18.01 | Jolt | i love the new dungeons |
| 18:18.04 | Jolt | nah i wont |
| 18:18.07 | Jolt | i mostly run with guildies |
| 18:18.13 | Jolt | and or friends on other realms |
| 18:18.42 | Jolt | I was playing swtor but i missed the whole friends-thing I have in wow |
| 18:18.51 | Jolt | I have been on the same realm for 7 or 8 years now |
| 18:20.16 | Jolt | ^^ |
| 18:20.31 | Jolt | so missed my friends too much so went back |
| 18:20.36 | Jolt | and i really love wow too so |
| 18:20.41 | Jolt | meh i can stay |
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| 18:35.52 | fewyn | woo decoder ring |
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| 18:45.23 | Mr_Rabies | i really wish i knew why my spriest's dps is so low :( |
| 18:45.33 | Mr_Rabies | BlackNet: install HearKitty |
| 18:45.44 | Mr_Rabies | it's an audible combo point counter |
| 18:47.26 | Mr_Rabies | http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/hear-kitty |
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| 18:50.27 | BlackNet | hearkitty? |
| 18:50.36 | BlackNet | ah |
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| 19:07.30 | robotigger | or just grab BadKitty :p |
| 19:07.38 | Arkaen | robotigger, no u |
| 19:08.39 | robotigger | :(? |
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| 19:22.01 | Mr_Rabies | badkitty is ugly :( |
| 19:22.08 | Mr_Rabies | i hate extra bars all over my screen |
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| 19:40.47 | BlackNet | ok this doesn't make sense. |
| 19:40.59 | BlackNet | armory shows only toons 10+ can be seen.yet this one is level 12 |
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| 19:42.48 | BlackNet | ok here's my druid so far. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/hyjal/Banlem/advanced |
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| 20:40.51 | `vip | ew you're a fat cow |
| 20:41.53 | Laihendi | :( |
| 20:42.26 | Djones_ | Mr_Rabies, got a log or something? |
| 20:42.28 | Djones_ | Or armoury link |
| 20:42.34 | Djones_ | I could probably help you out with spriest troubles. |
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| 21:02.56 | fewyn | now to wait 12 hours for my ring to decode |
| 21:03.05 | fewyn | charge |
| 21:03.06 | fewyn | whatever |
| 21:06.09 | Mr_Rabies | Djones_: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/llane/Kouji/advanced |
| 21:06.14 | Mr_Rabies | note: this is an alt |
| 21:06.24 | Mr_Rabies | so i'm not gonna pay 400g a pop for red gems |
| 21:07.03 | Djones_ | Sure |
| 21:07.06 | Mr_Rabies | i do about 8-11k and yeah it ranges that much :( |
| 21:07.12 | Djones_ | That's....really low. |
| 21:07.38 | Djones_ | whats your general rotation? |
| 21:07.52 | Mr_Rabies | i'm keeping my dots up and using mind blast when i have at least one orb |
| 21:08.06 | Djones_ | ahh, hmmm |
| 21:08.07 | Mr_Rabies | using mind flay as filler mostly |
| 21:08.12 | Djones_ | here's what you do. |
| 21:08.13 | Mr_Rabies | and shadowfiend every cd more or less |
| 21:08.30 | Djones_ | Shadow word pain -> Devouring Plague -> Vampiric touch |
| 21:08.38 | Djones_ | Mind blast -> Mind flay. |
| 21:08.52 | Djones_ | Then ALWAYS mind blast when it's off CD, and always shadowfiend on the pull and whenever it's off CD |
| 21:09.45 | Mr_Rabies | that's essentially what i do, except i do VT first usually while the tank is running in |
| 21:09.55 | Djones_ | Reasonable enough |
| 21:10.03 | Mr_Rabies | but i dunno :( |
| 21:10.05 | Djones_ | You're missing a lot of enchants |
| 21:10.08 | Mr_Rabies | yeah |
| 21:10.14 | Mr_Rabies | it's hard to justify paying for them |
| 21:10.15 | Mr_Rabies | :/ |
| 21:10.21 | Djones_ | Mhmm |
| 21:11.03 | Djones_ | you've probably reforged wrong |
| 21:11.06 | Mr_Rabies | i guess that's what i'm missing though, gems and enchants |
| 21:11.26 | Djones_ | yup |
| 21:11.29 | Djones_ | reforging is wrong |
| 21:11.39 | g0urra | Djones_: I usually do MSx2 -> VT -> DP -> SW:P -> MB -> MF |
| 21:11.41 | Djones_ | Unreforge -all- your gear. |
| 21:11.46 | Djones_ | g0urra, then you're weird. |
| 21:12.05 | g0urra | ikr |
| 21:12.11 | Djones_ | That's really not very optimal. |
| 21:12.21 | Djones_ | Mr_Rabies, unforge all yoru gear, then, reforge every piece into haste. |
| 21:12.29 | Djones_ | anything that doesn't have haste on? Put haste on it. |
| 21:12.37 | Djones_ | Then, your priority is spirit to hit cap |
| 21:13.49 | Djones_ | g0urra, what's the logic behind MSx2? The instant MB? |
| 21:13.53 | g0urra | yes |
| 21:13.58 | g0urra | nd |
| 21:13.59 | g0urra | sec |
| 21:14.17 | g0urra | the high damage, I guess |
| 21:14.42 | Djones_ | Unless you have 4 set T13, the opener is optimal with getting dots in immediately. |
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| 21:19.15 | Mr_Rabies | is there a better stat weight than the default on askmrrobot Djones_? |
| 21:19.27 | Djones_ | Let me has a look |
| 21:19.39 | Mr_Rabies | http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/llane/kouji see my reforges on there, it's saying only a few are off, and none to haste |
| 21:19.39 | Mr_Rabies | :/ |
| 21:20.11 | Djones_ | Yeah, it's being weird. |
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| 21:21.12 | Djones_ | Mr_Rabies, you need 3.09% haste |
| 21:21.24 | Djones_ | errr |
| 21:21.25 | Djones_ | 2.12% haste |
| 21:22.14 | Djones_ | and your wand, neck can give you some, but not all of that. |
| 21:22.43 | Djones_ | Mr_Rabies, the haste needed is 30%. |
| 21:22.57 | Djones_ | After that, you can forget haste. |
| 21:24.46 | fewyn | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/velen/Souffl%C3%A9/advanced anyone have any idea of how much dps i should be expecting to do? someone was complaining about my dps |
| 21:24.54 | fewyn | i think i'm playing arms correctly at least |
| 21:25.03 | fewyn | my trinkets are tanky i know |
| 21:25.17 | fewyn | wait why the fuck don't i have gems in my gear? |
| 21:25.19 | Djones_ | fewyn, 2 minutes and I@ll tell you |
| 21:25.33 | g0urra | Djones_: how about mine http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/eu/moonglade/baldibur |
| 21:26.56 | Djones_ | g0urra, reforging looks right. |
| 21:28.06 | Djones_ | fewyn, optimally? 20k |
| 21:28.17 | Djones_ | Realistically 18-19k on a standard patchwerky fight |
| 21:28.33 | fewyn | really? |
| 21:28.38 | fewyn | i must be doing something wrong then |
| 21:28.43 | fewyn | like horribly wrong |
| 21:28.50 | Djones_ | That's -fully- buffed |
| 21:28.56 | g0urra | http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/moonglade/groumnir/advanced |
| 21:28.59 | Djones_ | Potions, flasks, bloodlust, the lot. |
| 21:29.13 | fewyn | ok without gems and shit i was only doing about 10k on a target dummy, i did get a few upgrades yesterday in lfr |
| 21:29.16 | Djones_ | Sure |
| 21:29.18 | fewyn | i was pulling 11k |
| 21:29.24 | fewyn | in lfr yesterday |
| 21:29.24 | Djones_ | Dummy really tells you nothing though |
| 21:29.29 | fewyn | but a lot of that gear wasn't there yet |
| 21:29.44 | fewyn | it helps tell me if i am doing my rotation right |
| 21:30.07 | Djones_ | True, true. |
| 21:30.10 | g0urra | uh pvp gear |
| 21:30.14 | g0urra | looks about right for your dps |
| 21:30.16 | Djones_ | I would say if you're doing 10k on the dummy |
| 21:30.23 | Djones_ | then you should do 15-18k in an actual fight |
| 21:30.33 | Djones_ | because warriors scale well with buffs. |
| 21:30.36 | fewyn | yeah a few of the blue pieces are pvp stuff |
| 21:30.37 | Djones_ | g0urra, and no... |
| 21:30.48 | Djones_ | because warriors did 10k in 346 pvp gear |
| 21:30.57 | Djones_ | (most people do 10k in 346 pvp gear) |
| 21:31.10 | g0urra | hum. how much would I do in my gear? |
| 21:31.19 | Djones_ | fewyn, WAY too much expertise. |
| 21:31.22 | Djones_ | Like, WAY too much. |
| 21:31.27 | g0urra | 38 o.O |
| 21:31.31 | fewyn | i haven't reforged yet Djones_ |
| 21:31.35 | fewyn | http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/velen/souffl%C3%A9 |
| 21:31.55 | g0urra | also why is the neck's expertise reforged to dodge |
| 21:32.09 | g0urra | oh wait that's your offspec |
| 21:32.26 | g0urra | but cloak with tank stats.. |
| 21:32.46 | g0urra | and your trinkets are way off |
| 21:33.13 | fewyn | yeah my trinkets i don't have anything else to put there |
| 21:33.16 | fewyn | this char was formerly a tanky |
| 21:33.23 | fewyn | but i don't feel like tanking anymore |
| 21:34.15 | Djones_ | g0urra, in that gear, with full buffs on a patchwerk style fight? 25k |
| 21:34.25 | Djones_ | well, 25-29k |
| 21:34.31 | Djones_ | 29k being doing everything perfectly. |
| 21:34.47 | Mr_Rabies | i really hope secondary stats are more balanced in mists |
| 21:34.58 | g0urra | how would you grade this then? http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/moonglade/groumnir/advanced |
| 21:35.02 | Mr_Rabies | i think the feral dps druid is the perfect model for secondary stats |
| 21:35.28 | Mr_Rabies | primary stats are super important, and secondary stats are basically the same but modified by playstyle/fight |
| 21:35.43 | Djones_ | Mr_Rabies, if only feral druids were worth more than two shits and a fart for dps :p |
| 21:35.54 | Mr_Rabies | pfft |
| 21:36.04 | Mr_Rabies | you just gotta get em a good weapon |
| 21:36.07 | Djones_ | No. |
| 21:36.13 | Djones_ | They remain horrifically below everyone else. |
| 21:36.26 | Djones_ | and balance is ALMOST as bad. |
| 21:36.28 | Mr_Rabies | i'm topping our charts pretty regularly |
| 21:36.35 | Djones_ | That just means you have bad dps everywhere else. |
| 21:36.45 | Djones_ | In i397's, a feral druid sims out at about 35k |
| 21:36.49 | Mr_Rabies | the thing is that feral gets penalized by a lot fo things |
| 21:36.50 | Djones_ | a balance druid at 36k |
| 21:36.55 | Mr_Rabies | of |
| 21:36.59 | Djones_ | Spriest in i390 sims out at 38k |
| 21:37.05 | Djones_ | in 397 at 423 |
| 21:37.06 | Djones_ | 42k |
| 21:37.19 | Mr_Rabies | target swapping, movement, attacking from the front all hurt feral dps |
| 21:38.00 | Djones_ | Yes. |
| 21:38.07 | Djones_ | Thus my statement above |
| 21:38.15 | Djones_ | If only feral druids were worth more than two shits and a fart for dps. |
| 21:38.32 | g0urra | well, their faerie fire is good for melee.. |
| 21:38.54 | Mr_Rabies | i'd appreciate if we were better, for sure, but a courageous heart can defy any odds |
| 21:39.13 | Djones_ | A courageous heart can't defy theorycrafting, math and empirical evidence. |
| 21:39.52 | Mr_Rabies | pfft |
| 21:39.57 | Djones_ | Okay let's consider ultraxion |
| 21:40.06 | Djones_ | closest stand and nuke fight we've got |
| 21:40.12 | Djones_ | 25man normal mode. |
| 21:40.20 | Djones_ | Highest dps? 56k |
| 21:40.33 | Djones_ | Highest feral dps? 45k |
| 21:41.09 | Mr_Rabies | ultraxion is the most stacked against feral fight |
| 21:41.12 | *** join/#wowhead Funkeh` (~funk@5ada2b99.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:41.13 | *** join/#wowhead Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 21:41.29 | Djones_ | Okay then |
| 21:41.33 | Djones_ | Warlord zon'ozz |
| 21:41.37 | Djones_ | Single target |
| 21:41.39 | Djones_ | no target swapping |
| 21:41.41 | fewyn | slightly better, now that i'm properly gemmed and enchanted got 12k now to reforge |
| 21:41.42 | Djones_ | no movement |
| 21:41.48 | Mr_Rabies | where are you getting these numbers anyway? :o |
| 21:41.49 | Djones_ | Top dps 81k |
| 21:41.55 | Djones_ | Correction, 86k |
| 21:41.59 | Djones_ | Worldoflogs.com |
| 21:42.12 | Mr_Rabies | i mean i agree |
| 21:42.15 | Mr_Rabies | i'd love for us to be better |
| 21:42.16 | Djones_ | Top dps is 86k, top feral dps is 66k |
| 21:42.19 | Mr_Rabies | but what am i gonna do for it |
| 21:42.22 | Mr_Rabies | about it |
| 21:42.23 | Mr_Rabies | rather |
| 21:42.32 | Djones_ | Ferals are horrifically bad |
| 21:42.35 | Mr_Rabies | people seem to think we're overpowered |
| 21:42.36 | Djones_ | Worst dps in the game right now. |
| 21:42.45 | g0urra | <Djones_> no target swapping |
| 21:42.47 | g0urra | ololool |
| 21:42.49 | g0urra | normal? |
| 21:42.54 | Djones_ | g0urra, zon'ozz. |
| 21:42.57 | Djones_ | normal |
| 21:42.58 | Djones_ | yes. |
| 21:43.05 | Djones_ | I wouldn't even -bring- a feral druid to heroic zon'ozz. |
| 21:43.55 | Mr_Rabies | i'm glad i group up with friends and not min/maxers then :p |
| 21:43.56 | g0urra | how would you say that ret DPS is? |
| 21:44.03 | Djones_ | g0urra, strong right now |
| 21:44.07 | g0urra | same Mr_Rabies |
| 21:44.27 | Djones_ | Not hella strong |
| 21:44.28 | Djones_ | but strong |
| 21:44.40 | g0urra | I usually try to compete with the DK (unholy atm, but usually dw frost) |
| 21:45.02 | Mr_Rabies | i'd quit a guild that tried to get someone to swap specs for min/maxing's sake |
| 21:45.12 | Mr_Rabies | in a heartbeat |
| 21:45.22 | fewyn | same with me, i'm never going to switch to combat |
| 21:45.22 | Djones_ | Mr_Rabies, which is why you don't raid heroic content. |
| 21:45.28 | Mr_Rabies | i do! |
| 21:45.39 | Djones_ | Okay let me rephrase. |
| 21:45.44 | g0urra | our DK went UH because of all the magic damage mitigation |
| 21:45.47 | Mr_Rabies | our healers seriously need better throughput though :( |
| 21:45.48 | Djones_ | Which is why you don't do cutting edge progression. |
| 21:45.51 | Mr_Rabies | well yeah |
| 21:45.53 | Mr_Rabies | of course |
| 21:45.56 | Mr_Rabies | i'm no poopsocker |
| 21:46.03 | g0urra | we're at 5/8 atm |
| 21:46.03 | Djones_ | How much dps do you pull on an average night? |
| 21:46.11 | Mr_Rabies | heavily depends on the fight |
| 21:46.15 | g0urra | we just can't do blackhorn with 3 melee.. |
| 21:46.16 | Djones_ | Choose a fight |
| 21:46.20 | Djones_ | g0urra, ouch |
| 21:46.42 | g0urra | I'm volunteering to sit out when we do him |
| 21:46.46 | Djones_ | g0urra, nod. |
| 21:46.54 | g0urra | so that our DK get to go instead |
| 21:47.32 | Djones_ | 3 melee on blackhorn heroic sounds horrific |
| 21:47.37 | Mr_Rabies | i tend to hit about 80-90% or so of ranking on most fights on WoL, depending on how much i get put on bitch duty |
| 21:47.48 | g0urra | our team is usually.. dk tank, mage, shadow/disc priest, resto shaman, balance/feral druid, rogue, prot/holy pala and me (ret pala) |
| 21:48.04 | Mr_Rabies | or have to brez our generally death-prone healers |
| 21:48.10 | g0urra | oh wait, the UH/frost DK too |
| 21:49.09 | g0urra | I think though on blackhorn we're sitting out the rogue and bringing our resto druid instead |
| 21:49.21 | Mr_Rabies | i'd never do that |
| 21:49.40 | Mr_Rabies | swapping players is a relic of old raid mindset |
| 21:49.46 | g0urra | ... |
| 21:49.56 | g0urra | are you serious |
| 21:49.57 | Djones_ | Mr_Rabies, no. It really isn't. |
| 21:50.01 | Mr_Rabies | if i had to sit out for progression's sake, i'd be finding a new guild pretty quickly |
| 21:50.03 | robotigger | bring the player, as long as he's the right class |
| 21:50.16 | g0urra | ^ |
| 21:50.21 | Djones_ | You simply cannot do heroic Blackhorn if you have 4 melee |
| 21:50.24 | Djones_ | It would be impossible. |
| 21:50.40 | Djones_ | And have fun trying to do heroic madness without a spriest unless you outgear it. |
| 21:50.42 | Mr_Rabies | you should probably not have formed the raid with 4 melee in the first place then |
| 21:51.02 | Djones_ | Mr_Rabies, but I can't swap players because it's a relic of an old raid mindset. |
| 21:51.15 | Mr_Rabies | not on a fight-per-fight basis |
| 21:51.19 | Djones_ | Errr yes. |
| 21:51.49 | Djones_ | In heroic mode, no matter your progression, every little counts. |
| 21:51.50 | g0urra | I'm planning on doing blackhorn with 2 tanks, 3 healers and 5 ferals |
| 21:51.54 | g0urra | just for shit n giggles |
| 21:52.00 | Djones_ | Yeah, that will go well. |
| 21:52.04 | Djones_ | And -generally- you can get away with most things |
| 21:52.21 | Djones_ | But if you actually want to kill heroic fights instead of wiping all night and doing it on normal instead. |
| 21:52.52 | Mr_Rabies | we got 6/7 heroic doing 8 hours a week during FL, that's good enough for me |
| 21:53.06 | Mr_Rabies | going in and farming it in an hour and a half is no fun |
| 21:53.45 | Djones_ | Firelands was a hell of a lot easier and less tetchy than dragonsoul heroic is. |
| 21:54.09 | Mr_Rabies | we didn't even bother with ragnaros because that fight isn't fun at all even on normal, it's just a giant timewaster |
| 21:54.38 | Djones_ | Consider this. 10man heroic Spine prenerfs : Impossible without burst dps classes |
| 21:54.38 | Mr_Rabies | it's hard until you clear it, then it's ridiculously easy and time consuming every week after that on normal |
| 21:54.46 | Djones_ | Heroic blackhorn pre nerf : Impossible with 3 melee |
| 21:55.05 | Djones_ | heroic Ultraxion pre nerf : Impossible if you have 2 druid dps in the raid at appropriate gear |
| 21:55.30 | Mr_Rabies | that's fine with me |
| 21:55.33 | Djones_ | Heroic Yoh'sahj : Paladin healers? Piece of piss. Others? Dear fucking lord that hurts. |
| 21:55.37 | Mr_Rabies | i'd rather have fun |
| 21:55.48 | Mr_Rabies | all this gear's gonna be useless in a few months anyway, who gives a damn |
| 21:55.52 | Djones_ | Wiping for 3 hours a night because you have someone who makes the fight impossible is not fun. |
| 21:56.13 | Mr_Rabies | right now our biggest bottleneck is our healers |
| 21:56.18 | Djones_ | Killing it on normal for the 90th time because you won't swap people out to make a heroic viable raid group is not fun. |
| 21:56.27 | Djones_ | No, it isn't. |
| 21:56.37 | Djones_ | raiders do not exist in isolation. Everything is connected to everyone. |
| 21:56.41 | Mr_Rabies | we're just getting murdered on yor'sahj as soon as we get a black phase |
| 21:56.47 | Djones_ | That's a dps issue. |
| 21:56.48 | Djones_ | Not healing. |
| 21:56.51 | Djones_ | (for one) |
| 21:56.56 | Mr_Rabies | err |
| 21:56.59 | Mr_Rabies | purple rather |
| 21:57.02 | Djones_ | Yup |
| 21:57.04 | Djones_ | That's a dps issue |
| 21:57.05 | Mr_Rabies | if there's a purple, we just die |
| 21:57.07 | Mr_Rabies | every time |
| 21:57.09 | Mr_Rabies | how? |
| 21:57.14 | Djones_ | You die on Purple+black+yellow+red |
| 21:57.15 | Djones_ | everytime |
| 21:57.22 | Djones_ | Because your dps isn't killing the adds quick enough |
| 21:57.25 | Mr_Rabies | no, if there's a purple at all |
| 21:57.31 | Mr_Rabies | we wipe |
| 21:57.32 | Djones_ | Then your healers are being stupid |
| 21:57.38 | Djones_ | Which is nothing to do with throughput |
| 21:57.42 | Djones_ | As you ascertained earlier. |
| 21:57.50 | Mr_Rabies | they're still somewhat undergeared |
| 21:57.58 | Djones_ | somewhat irrelevant. |
| 21:58.18 | Djones_ | If you're dying to a purple that doesn't also have black and red in it |
| 21:58.23 | Djones_ | it has nothing to do with gear |
| 21:58.27 | Djones_ | and everything to do with doing it wrong |
| 21:58.59 | Djones_ | And again, your healers don't exist in isolation. |
| 21:59.08 | Djones_ | You are probably dying to Purple+black more times than anything else |
| 21:59.15 | Djones_ | and probably because you have shitty burst aoe damage. |
| 21:59.32 | Mr_Rabies | i have awesome burst aoe damage |
| 21:59.35 | g0urra | purple+black+yellow+red is a bitch |
| 21:59.36 | Djones_ | No, you do not. |
| 21:59.38 | Mr_Rabies | it's sustained i suck at |
| 21:59.41 | Djones_ | g0urra, yes it is. |
| 21:59.48 | Djones_ | Mr_Rabies, you have -comparatively- good burst aoe dps compared to your own. |
| 21:59.57 | g0urra | I can't remember which one we do, but I think it's purple we kill |
| 22:00.01 | Djones_ | fire mages, priests, hunters make feral druids look like they're sucking balls |
| 22:00.14 | Djones_ | g0urra, we go for yellow because quite frankly two sets of adds is too much |
| 22:00.17 | Mr_Rabies | so far that's not the case |
| 22:00.28 | Djones_ | Mr_Rabies, okay, for clarification. |
| 22:00.29 | g0urra | maybe we go for yellow. I can't remember |
| 22:00.33 | Djones_ | I burst 150k aoe dps as a priest. |
| 22:00.34 | Mr_Rabies | hell, half the reason my dps is so high on madness is because of how much burst aoe i get to do |
| 22:00.36 | Djones_ | Our hunter beats me. |
| 22:00.44 | Djones_ | I average 70-75k on madness |
| 22:00.54 | fewyn | http://escism.net/omfgdogs/ |
| 22:01.03 | Djones_ | feral druids are NOT good at burst aoe. |
| 22:01.16 | Djones_ | It's just -their- best thing. |
| 22:01.21 | Djones_ | That doesn't make it good, only less worse. |
| 22:01.28 | Mr_Rabies | okay |
| 22:01.32 | Mr_Rabies | i'm gonna get some lunch |
| 22:01.46 | Mr_Rabies | i don't really know why you're being so hostile soooo |
| 22:01.50 | Djones_ | This is why logs exist, this is why people use those logs to make graphs, labels etc. |
| 22:01.53 | Mr_Rabies | i'm gonna stop talking and get some lunch |
| 22:02.03 | Djones_ | Because facts exist for a reason |
| 22:02.06 | Mr_Rabies | i guess it's more like dinner, it's 5:00 |
| 22:02.11 | Djones_ | and ignoring facts because of personal experience is stupid. |
| 22:02.31 | Mr_Rabies | i've said numerous times that i think we're underpowered, i've agreed |
| 22:02.38 | Djones_ | Incredibly so. |
| 22:02.41 | Mr_Rabies | but i'd never in my life raid with you |
| 22:02.43 | Mr_Rabies | ever |
| 22:02.55 | Djones_ | Do you do 37k on ultraxion heroic? |
| 22:02.57 | Djones_ | or more. |
| 22:03.04 | Mr_Rabies | i do about 32k generally |
| 22:03.08 | Djones_ | Then you're a burden. |
| 22:03.14 | Djones_ | And when that fight was fresh, you'd never kill it |
| 22:03.16 | Mr_Rabies | i top the charts at 32k |
| 22:03.17 | Djones_ | Now, sure, doable |
| 22:03.22 | Djones_ | Then you don't kill heroic ultraxion. |
| 22:03.27 | Mr_Rabies | oh |
| 22:03.28 | Djones_ | Simple. |
| 22:03.28 | Mr_Rabies | heroic |
| 22:03.29 | Mr_Rabies | yeah |
| 22:03.32 | Mr_Rabies | i don't really care |
| 22:03.36 | Mr_Rabies | i'll get better gear |
| 22:03.46 | Mr_Rabies | we haven't tried heroic yet |
| 22:04.01 | Mr_Rabies | only morchok and yor'sahj so far |
| 22:04.26 | Djones_ | Wait. |
| 22:04.27 | Mr_Rabies | you seem to be the kind of person who uses the phrase "filthy casuals" a lot, so i don't hold your opinions in very high regard |
| 22:04.33 | Djones_ | Not at all |
| 22:04.38 | Djones_ | People can do whatever they like |
| 22:04.43 | Djones_ | If you want to raid casually, good for you. |
| 22:04.49 | Djones_ | Just don't pretend it's viable for heroic content. |
| 22:04.56 | Djones_ | Vis a vis "old raid mindset" |
| 22:05.07 | Djones_ | i'm casual myself. |
| 22:05.08 | Mr_Rabies | eventually it is, as we gear up |
| 22:05.12 | Djones_ | We raid 9 hours a week at most, mostly 6. |
| 22:05.25 | Mr_Rabies | apparently you're not if you keep people from seeing a fight because you wanna get purps faster |
| 22:05.25 | g0urra | raids 9 hours a week |
| 22:05.37 | Djones_ | Mr_Rabies, care nothing about purples. |
| 22:05.45 | Djones_ | Progress? yes, purples? no. |
| 22:06.03 | Djones_ | Also. Every single one of my raiders can pull their own weight. |
| 22:06.12 | Djones_ | And my raid group is balanced so I don't have to sit anyone out because they can't perform. |
| 22:06.14 | Mr_Rabies | wiping even 8 hours a week isn't frustrating at all to me, as long as it feels like we've learned something by the end of the fight |
| 22:06.36 | g0urra | wiping on blackhorn atm feels like waste of time |
| 22:06.44 | Mr_Rabies | we used to wipe 30+ hours a week, so 8 hours a week doesn't faze me |
| 22:07.00 | Djones_ | g0urra, if you're doing it with 3 melee, it is. |
| 22:07.01 | Djones_ | Completely. |
| 22:07.03 | g0urra | what |
| 22:07.05 | g0urra | 30 hours |
| 22:07.08 | Mr_Rabies | "we" being my guild back in vanilla |
| 22:07.25 | Mr_Rabies | while doing cutting edge BWL when vael was buggy as shit |
| 22:07.37 | Mr_Rabies | that's about the end of my hardcore raiding career |
| 22:07.49 | Mr_Rabies | we had fun, but i don't have time for that anymore |
| 22:08.38 | Mr_Rabies | i just go in to have fun |
| 22:09.03 | Djones_ | The thing is |
| 22:09.08 | Djones_ | You walk into a heroic progress guild with that attitude |
| 22:09.09 | Mr_Rabies | i tend to die on every aoe pack of trash because i burst at about 200k |
| 22:09.15 | Djones_ | You destroy the fun for the other 9 people |
| 22:09.20 | Mr_Rabies | i wouldn't ever walk into a heroic progress guild |
| 22:09.22 | Djones_ | As you cause them to wipe on ultrax heroic constantly. |
| 22:09.23 | Mr_Rabies | those guys are mostly assholes |
| 22:09.53 | Djones_ | A lot of presumptions that. |
| 22:10.05 | Djones_ | What i'm saying is |
| 22:10.06 | Djones_ | Do what you like |
| 22:10.09 | Djones_ | Enjoy it, great. |
| 22:10.27 | Mr_Rabies | you're a fine example of why i don't bother with heroic progress guilds |
| 22:10.34 | Mr_Rabies | not that there are really any on my server anyway |
| 22:10.37 | Djones_ | My point is you can't just do heroic raiding anyway you like. |
| 22:10.42 | Mr_Rabies | sure you can |
| 22:10.52 | Mr_Rabies | it may take longer |
| 22:10.52 | Djones_ | You can't just do cutting edge progress any which way |
| 22:11.02 | Mr_Rabies | but what's the fun in having heroics on farm a week into the patch? |
| 22:11.03 | Djones_ | It's not cutting edge progress if you outgear content by the time you kill it. |
| 22:11.09 | Mr_Rabies | what do you do for the rest of the months |
| 22:11.18 | Mr_Rabies | that's the shit that makes me quit wow |
| 22:11.28 | Djones_ | It's cutting edge progress if you do it -in- the gear. I'm not saying you can't have fun, or raid how you like. |
| 22:11.30 | Djones_ | Please do. |
| 22:11.45 | Mr_Rabies | i've never once said that i'm interested or claim to do cutting edge progress |
| 22:11.45 | Djones_ | Just don't minimise the effort other people go too to do what they find fun. |
| 22:11.55 | Djones_ | No, but you criticise the way people do it. |
| 22:12.04 | Mr_Rabies | certainly |
| 22:12.29 | Mr_Rabies | because it's a dick move to make someone hang out in stormwind because "lol progress" |
| 22:12.42 | Djones_ | Everybody in a progress orientated guild signs up for that. |
| 22:12.54 | Djones_ | If you're not ok with it, don't be in a progress orientated guild because it -is- necessary. |
| 22:12.55 | Mr_Rabies | i guess i just don't see the mindset |
| 22:13.04 | g0urra | you're being selfish Mr_Rabies |
| 22:13.16 | Mr_Rabies | i quit quite a few top-tier guilds in vanilla for making people sit out |
| 22:13.24 | Djones_ | If i'm the weak link, i will sit myself out in a heartbeat |
| 22:13.36 | Mr_Rabies | i never sat out because i was resto at the time (that was the only way to raid) |
| 22:13.39 | Mr_Rabies | but like |
| 22:13.44 | Djones_ | If for some reason shadowpriests are absolutely rubbish on fight X, and I can't make the numbers, I will sit myself out until the content no longer matters |
| 22:13.57 | Mr_Rabies | "rogues, get out, we need more mages for this fight" was like |
| 22:14.01 | Mr_Rabies | no thanks |
| 22:14.07 | Djones_ | Which is fine |
| 22:14.09 | Ward | I always wanna sit out but never get to |
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| 22:14.16 | Ward | because I play a resto druid with tank offspec |
| 22:14.17 | Djones_ | But don't then say we're doing it wrong. |
| 22:14.20 | g0urra | "melee, get out, we need more ranged for this fight" <- blackhorn |
| 22:14.25 | Djones_ | Yup. |
| 22:14.33 | Djones_ | Until it gets nerfed further, 3 melee == no point trying. |
| 22:14.45 | Mr_Rabies | see g0urra, i think you should have planned the raid better in the first place |
| 22:14.52 | Mr_Rabies | now you're stuck making people sit out |
| 22:15.16 | Djones_ | Mr_Rabies, except raids don't exist in isolation |
| 22:15.18 | Djones_ | I run a 10man guild |
| 22:15.20 | Mr_Rabies | i'd quit the raid and find another if i had to sit out for whatever reason |
| 22:15.21 | Djones_ | I have 15 raiders |
| 22:15.29 | g0urra | so you're saying that the melee should have rolled ranged classes instead? |
| 22:15.31 | Djones_ | I have 15 raiders because 1 wants to quit. |
| 22:15.42 | Djones_ | I've just replaced one healer, and am trialing another |
| 22:15.43 | g0urra | and not playing their melee characters at all? |
| 22:15.49 | Djones_ | And we have some overflow. |
| 22:15.58 | Djones_ | In those 15 raiders, I have 3 melee dps. |
| 22:16.15 | Djones_ | What happens when raid night happens, it's heroic blackthorn and I have 7 dps |
| 22:16.22 | Djones_ | 3 melee and 4 ranged, and I need 6 dps to do the fight. |
| 22:16.23 | Mr_Rabies | maybe you shouldn't have recruited more people than you needed, if you have those who are interested in raiding and not just AWFUL, they should be in the raid from start to finish, g0urra |
| 22:16.33 | Djones_ | Mr_Rabies, except you can't do that. |
| 22:16.42 | Mr_Rabies | sure you can |
| 22:16.45 | Djones_ | People get ill, go out, have real lives, have to do X,Y and Z |
| 22:16.47 | g0urra | you're implying you know anything about my guild and our recruitment |
| 22:16.56 | Djones_ | Running a 10man guild with 10 raiders is stupid. |
| 22:17.01 | iblizzard | okay, i admit i like raiding casually.. but it's absurd to think that you can have a 10 persno raid with 10 raiders. |
| 22:17.02 | Djones_ | You need 12 minimum, 14 to be comfortable. |
| 22:17.11 | iblizzard | especially if yuo are casual.. |
| 22:17.14 | Djones_ | Yup |
| 22:17.15 | Mr_Rabies | what do the other 2-4 do on raid night then? |
| 22:17.22 | Djones_ | Mostly, 1 is out anyways |
| 22:17.23 | iblizzard | casual means moer people no showing up or not wantig to raid. which is totally fine. |
| 22:17.25 | Djones_ | 1 isn't wanting to raid |
| 22:17.28 | Mr_Rabies | we've got a set roster that raids every week |
| 22:17.31 | Djones_ | and the others sit out on a rotation. |
| 22:17.44 | Djones_ | and that rotation does get skewed by what content we're doing. |
| 22:17.49 | Djones_ | The thing is, we have 3 melee dps |
| 22:17.52 | Djones_ | so if I only need 1 to sit out |
| 22:17.59 | Djones_ | That's at least 3 weeks between sitouts |
| 22:18.06 | Djones_ | and likely much more. |
| 22:18.29 | g0urra | Djones_: let's say you have a rogue, DK, and paladin for melee DPS. which one do you sit out? |
| 22:18.32 | iblizzard | Mr_Rabies: if you honestly have the same 10 people show up for every single raid, i'd argue that you're not really casual. |
| 22:18.41 | Djones_ | g0urra, no real difference. |
| 22:18.43 | Mr_Rabies | that's the plan |
| 22:18.45 | Mr_Rabies | we only invite 10 |
| 22:18.48 | Djones_ | I'd ask them if any of them wanted to sit out |
| 22:18.53 | Mr_Rabies | we've got multiple raid groups |
| 22:18.58 | Mr_Rabies | 3 atm |
| 22:18.59 | Djones_ | and if not, i'd probably make them roll for it. |
| 22:19.04 | Mr_Rabies | two are more casual and have rolling rosters |
| 22:19.13 | Mr_Rabies | ours is the "hardest core" of the 3 |
| 22:19.30 | Mr_Rabies | and we've got exactly who we need, and emergencies notwithstanding, take the same 10 people every week |
| 22:19.37 | Djones_ | Every raid? |
| 22:19.40 | Djones_ | The same people. |
| 22:19.45 | Djones_ | Because that is not casual raiding. |
| 22:19.47 | iblizzard | to me, that isn't casual |
| 22:19.56 | Djones_ | Nope. |
| 22:20.09 | Mr_Rabies | we're not hardcore either, as i've shown |
| 22:20.11 | Mr_Rabies | what are we then? |
| 22:20.12 | iblizzard | that's hardcore raiding, btu failing if you're not pushing content. |
| 22:20.16 | Djones_ | That's a hardcore raiding style. |
| 22:20.24 | Mr_Rabies | it's not though, at all |
| 22:20.25 | Djones_ | Just because you don't raid 6 nights a week |
| 22:20.33 | Djones_ | Doesn't mean it's not a hardcore style. |
| 22:20.40 | Djones_ | Okay here's a question. |
| 22:20.42 | Mr_Rabies | we don't really push progress or expect performance beyond not being TERRIBLE |
| 22:20.45 | Djones_ | you have the same 10 people week in and week out. |
| 22:20.49 | Mr_Rabies | we're just 10 people who get along well together who go in and have fun |
| 22:20.53 | Djones_ | What do you do when the tank is ill and a healer has a date? |
| 22:20.58 | Djones_ | Also. |
| 22:21.03 | Mr_Rabies | we don't raid that night |
| 22:21.05 | Djones_ | Right. |
| 22:21.18 | Mr_Rabies | this week we were missing two heals so we're running monday |
| 22:21.26 | Djones_ | So, because one person can't make it |
| 22:21.32 | iblizzard | sorry, i was having fun reading this convesation.. i didn't actually want to get involved. :) |
| 22:21.32 | Djones_ | You're having 9 people sit out of a raid. |
| 22:21.34 | Djones_ | Every time. |
| 22:21.38 | Djones_ | Do some basic math. |
| 22:21.42 | Mr_Rabies | nah, they'll go on monday |
| 22:21.44 | Djones_ | Everytime a single person has something else happening. |
| 22:21.50 | Djones_ | no raid. |
| 22:21.57 | Djones_ | verses sit out once every 3 weeks or so. |
| 22:22.11 | Mr_Rabies | we'd rather raid together |
| 22:22.13 | Mr_Rabies | i mean sure |
| 22:22.27 | Mr_Rabies | if we have others in teh guild that aren't saved and aren't planning on it |
| 22:22.28 | Djones_ | Okay, here's the thing. |
| 22:22.30 | Mr_Rabies | we might grab them |
| 22:22.31 | Djones_ | I'm our raid leader. |
| 22:22.38 | Mr_Rabies | or grab a friend from another guild |
| 22:22.41 | Djones_ | I have things on on saturday nights, monday nights every other week, wednesday nights. |
| 22:22.46 | Mr_Rabies | but if we can't find anyone, we just put it off until the next week |
| 22:22.47 | Djones_ | We raid Thursdays, sundays, Tuesdays. |
| 22:22.57 | Djones_ | If a raid doesn't happen on one of our raid nights |
| 22:23.01 | Djones_ | There is no rescheduling. |
| 22:23.06 | Djones_ | Because we all have lives, we have other things |
| 22:23.13 | Mr_Rabies | we do friday and monday |
| 22:23.22 | Djones_ | every one of us has to a certain extent structured our social lives around a raiding schedule. |
| 22:23.22 | Mr_Rabies | for now |
| 22:23.24 | Djones_ | We can't just go "oh ok we'll raid on monday instead" |
| 22:23.28 | Mr_Rabies | we're probably switching to tuesday and wednesday starting soon |
| 22:23.36 | Mr_Rabies | no, we just schedule 2 nights |
| 22:23.37 | Djones_ | Any guild that can just recschedule and get all 10 people is a hardcore raiding style. |
| 22:23.47 | Mr_Rabies | we don't reschedule |
| 22:24.01 | Mr_Rabies | if we don't get enough people, we just don't run as an organized raid for the week |
| 22:24.24 | Djones_ | How is that preferable to having one or two more people in your raid group and being able to raid everytime you want too? |
| 22:24.27 | Mr_Rabies | if someone consistently doesn't show up and doesn't have a good reason, we'll find someone else eventually |
| 22:25.01 | Mr_Rabies | but we've got a set time and set roster every week |
| 22:25.16 | Djones_ | Okay. I have a question then. |
| 22:25.20 | Djones_ | You have a set roster every week |
| 22:25.23 | Djones_ | 10 people. |
| 22:25.28 | Djones_ | Out of the raids, percentage wise. |
| 22:25.30 | Djones_ | How many go ahead? |
| 22:25.35 | Mr_Rabies | ahead? |
| 22:25.38 | Djones_ | as in, happen. |
| 22:25.40 | Mr_Rabies | oh |
| 22:25.49 | Mr_Rabies | we've only not raided at all for the week once |
| 22:26.00 | Djones_ | Percentage wise, how many raids are cancelled then? |
| 22:26.16 | Mr_Rabies | lemme see |
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| 22:27.05 | Mr_Rabies | i'm thinking like 10% for this tier |
| 22:27.14 | Djones_ | So you're telling me |
| 22:27.18 | Mr_Rabies | only one raid out of 12 weeks i think? |
| 22:27.20 | *** join/#wowhead twsx (~tws@static.230.96.46.78.clients.your-server.de) |
| 22:27.25 | Djones_ | That on average, your raid group has missed 1 raid out of 24? |
| 22:27.40 | Mr_Rabies | well not necessarily |
| 22:27.41 | Djones_ | Scratch on average. |
| 22:27.48 | Mr_Rabies | if we clear it on friday |
| 22:27.51 | Mr_Rabies | then we don't run monday |
| 22:28.06 | Djones_ | okay, if we say 1 in 12, even. |
| 22:28.14 | Djones_ | More likely 1 in 16-20 but we will stick with 1 in 12 |
| 22:28.23 | Djones_ | You're saying that out of 120 raider appearances required. |
| 22:28.32 | Djones_ | You've had 1 absence. |
| 22:28.42 | Djones_ | (or up to 10 if they occured on the same raid) |
| 22:29.24 | Mr_Rabies | well, generally as long as the leader's there and we're only missing one we can find a ringer for the night, but it's rare for all 10 of us not to be there |
| 22:29.37 | Mr_Rabies | well 1 heal or tank |
| 22:30.12 | Djones_ | So basically, for the past 12 weeks, as a sample study, every single raid has gone ahead, and had 90% attendance rate if not higher |
| 22:30.18 | Djones_ | I'mma say this simply. |
| 22:30.20 | Mr_Rabies | generally speaking |
| 22:30.21 | Djones_ | That is not casual. |
| 22:30.25 | Djones_ | That is not even close to casual. |
| 22:30.29 | Mr_Rabies | but we're not hardcore either :( |
| 22:30.32 | Djones_ | That is a more hardcore setup than more hardcore guilds. |
| 22:30.35 | Djones_ | That is hardcore raiding. |
| 22:30.40 | Mr_Rabies | we're just people who like to raid together |
| 22:30.42 | Djones_ | That is dedication to raiding beyond hardcore. |
| 22:30.56 | Djones_ | You raid so consistantly and constantly nothing you do can be considered casual in that light. |
| 22:31.04 | Mr_Rabies | i dunno then :( |
| 22:31.11 | Djones_ | It is NOT casual if you go to the same raid week in week out without fail, and so does the rest of your raid group. |
| 22:31.18 | Mr_Rabies | maybe we have a unique setup |
| 22:31.23 | Mr_Rabies | i don't know |
| 22:31.27 | Djones_ | you are not casual if you can maintain a 10man raid group with 10 raiders and not have more people. |
| 22:31.28 | Mr_Rabies | we don't have any drama or anything |
| 22:31.31 | Djones_ | So? |
| 22:31.39 | Djones_ | My guild has little, and we're casual-core. |
| 22:31.48 | Djones_ | And hardcore guilds don't have to have drama. |
| 22:32.08 | Mr_Rabies | any drama gets nipped in the bud by the guild master |
| 22:32.15 | Mr_Rabies | he's awesome |
| 22:32.43 | Djones_ | and what would you do if he decided to recruit one more person |
| 22:32.47 | Djones_ | and somebody had to sit out every raid? |
| 22:32.56 | Djones_ | That would be an average of one sitout every 5 weeks |
| 22:33.03 | Mr_Rabies | our GM isn't our raid leader |
| 22:33.11 | Djones_ | RL then |
| 22:33.49 | Mr_Rabies | that's the thing though |
| 22:33.58 | Mr_Rabies | we don't really sit out unless we want to if the raid doesn't work out |
| 22:34.15 | Mr_Rabies | which has only happened once this tier |
| 22:34.16 | Djones_ | But you'll have 11 signs |
| 22:34.53 | Mr_Rabies | 11 signs? |
| 22:35.07 | Djones_ | if your RL recruited an extra raider and you had 11 signs |
| 22:35.13 | Djones_ | You'd need to sit someone out every week, no? |
| 22:35.35 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, but we wouldn't do that |
| 22:36.05 | Mr_Rabies | either they're in the raid or they're not |
| 22:36.05 | Djones_ | No, and do you know why? |
| 22:36.08 | fewyn | doing 16k on warmaster blackhorn |
| 22:36.09 | Djones_ | Because you don't need them |
| 22:36.19 | Djones_ | Why? Because you're raiding hardcore. |
| 22:36.41 | Djones_ | What I find mildly amusing about this whole thing is that you raid more hardcore than I do with that. |
| 22:36.45 | Mr_Rabies | but doesn't hardcore raiding imply enforcing progression or performance or attendance? |
| 22:36.45 | JunkHead- | IM A HARDCORE RAIDER!!! |
| 22:36.49 | Djones_ | Mr_Rabies, why? |
| 22:36.50 | JunkHead- | GRRR!!!! |
| 22:37.00 | Mr_Rabies | if not, i guess we're hardcore then :/ |
| 22:37.02 | Djones_ | a) your attendance is enforced. |
| 22:37.11 | Djones_ | because if you didn't turn up you wouldn't raid. Social pressure says hi |
| 22:37.18 | Mr_Rabies | it's not truly enforced |
| 22:37.23 | JunkHead- | HI SOCIAL PRESSURE! |
| 22:37.27 | Djones_ | b) Hardcore raiding is a matter of the style, not the objectives. |
| 22:37.40 | Djones_ | For instance, we are a progression orientated guild. We have performance requirements. |
| 22:38.00 | Djones_ | But we raid 3 nights a week, at most, we don't enforce 100% attendance at all |
| 22:38.08 | Djones_ | We will happily let people sit out whenever they like |
| 22:38.11 | Djones_ | And we can still raid. |
| 22:38.14 | Djones_ | And kill bosses. |
| 22:38.20 | Djones_ | Which is why we're casual-core. |
| 22:38.33 | Djones_ | When we raid, we raid hardcore. Every pull is doublepotted, every attempt is minmaxed. |
| 22:38.33 | Mr_Rabies | you'll likely just be replaced by a friend of someone in the raid or a guildy that's not going to be able to raid with the other raid groups for whatever reason |
| 22:38.37 | Mr_Rabies | for the week |
| 22:38.39 | Mr_Rabies | or the night |
| 22:38.43 | Mr_Rabies | most likely the night though |
| 22:39.11 | Mr_Rabies | we've only not run once and that's because the raid leader and a healer both had family emergencies just a few hours before the raid |
| 22:39.26 | Mr_Rabies | that extended until monday as well |
| 22:39.44 | Mr_Rabies | if we're missing just one, we'll find a ringer no matter what |
| 22:40.06 | Mr_Rabies | or at least try as hard as we can |
| 22:40.37 | Mr_Rabies | if we for some reason don't, then we'll just run without really pushing progression for the week and clear it all on monday |
| 22:41.56 | Mr_Rabies | like i said, our situation may be unique |
| 22:42.07 | Mr_Rabies | because we're in a huge guild with 3 raid groups, two with floating rosters |
| 22:42.33 | *** join/#wowhead jesta (~jesta@unaffiliated/jestaea/x-0872513) |
| 22:42.35 | Mr_Rabies | they're super casual and just run whatever they feel like they can do with the group they get |
| 22:50.28 | Mr_Rabies | anyway |
| 22:50.30 | Mr_Rabies | jambalaya |
| 22:51.11 | Mr_Rabies | here's our guildox chart if that means anything Djones_, i really don't think it does http://www.guildox.com/go/g.asp?n=Heroes+in+Exile&r=Llane-US |
| 22:51.15 | Mr_Rabies | every dip is a roster change |
| 22:51.34 | Djones_ | That's true of every guild. |
| 22:51.48 | Mr_Rabies | because someone just disappeared or their pc got screwed up or they ended up being somewhat crazy under pressure |
| 22:52.26 | Mr_Rabies | but basically we have a set roster every week, we don't boot people without merit |
| 22:52.50 | Djones_ | if you had 11 raiders you would of been fine. |
| 22:53.01 | Mr_Rabies | if someone's got bad performance we try to help them make sure their rotation is good or help them not stand in fire or whatever |
| 22:53.15 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, but if i was sitting out for the week i'd run with another guild probably |
| 22:53.20 | Mr_Rabies | if i liked them i'd join them instead |
| 22:53.40 | g0urra | http://www.guildox.com/go/g.asp?n=Emergence&r=Moonglade-EU |
| 22:54.40 | Mr_Rabies | i'd never sit out and never allow a raid leader to make someone sit out just for progression's sake |
| 22:55.00 | Djones_ | I don't think you understand the points i'm making |
| 22:55.12 | Djones_ | Having more than 10 raiders isn't about sitting people out for progressions sake |
| 22:55.31 | g0urra | hm.. I didn't realize I 2nd highest ilvl in my gear after our main tank o.O |
| 22:55.34 | Mr_Rabies | we have more than 10 raiders, but we only invite the same 10 for OUR raid every week |
| 22:55.38 | Djones_ | It's about having enough redundancy to cover that fight that needs 4 healers, that fight that needs 3 melee, or 6 ranged, or to cover the time that dude has to go to hospital, or wants to go on a date. |
| 22:55.41 | g0urra | I had* in my guild* |
| 22:55.54 | Djones_ | if you only invite 10 people, you only have 10 raiders in your raid group. |
| 22:56.07 | Mr_Rabies | and we don't swap roster mid-raid at all unless someone just has to leave for the night for whatever reason |
| 22:56.48 | Mr_Rabies | even if someone who signed up shows up, generally, unless our ringer is TERRIBLE |
| 22:56.53 | Djones_ | Because if you don't routinely have more people in your raid group, then they will never maintain the same level of gear quality, experience of the raid, synergy with the raid group and playability with other people. |
| 22:56.57 | Mr_Rabies | like, they show up late, etc |
| 22:57.29 | Azelphur | I just quit the game/my guild because I was getting fed up with it :P |
| 22:57.45 | Azelphur | it was supposed to be a casual guild, and they'd rant at me for turning up 1 minute late to a raid or something |
| 22:57.50 | Mr_Rabies | our guild is open recruitment |
| 22:58.11 | Azelphur | and the other day they did a 7 hour raid when half the team said no we want to stop now \o/ |
| 22:58.11 | Mr_Rabies | our raid is a locked roster unless someone can't show up |
| 22:58.30 | g0urra | who the fuck raids for 7 hours |
| 22:58.37 | Azelphur | my casual guild :D |
| 22:58.45 | Azelphur | full DS and FL clear in one night |
| 22:58.46 | BlackNet | many groups will raid for 7 hours |
| 22:58.50 | Mr_Rabies | gotta be a bunch of high schoolers |
| 22:58.53 | Mr_Rabies | who has that kinda time anymore |
| 22:58.59 | Azelphur | nope, mostly adults too haha |
| 22:59.22 | Azelphur | it was the day we first downed deathwing so everyone was kinda happy and they decided they wanted to go for raggy too |
| 22:59.25 | g0urra | what hours? |
| 22:59.29 | BlackNet | brb rebooting |
| 22:59.37 | Azelphur | 8pm till like 3am |
| 22:59.42 | BlackNet | but there's been numerious raids that last a good week solid |
| 23:00.21 | g0urra | yeah you must be unemployed if you have that time to raid. |
| 23:00.36 | g0urra | or don't have a normal 8-5 job |
| 23:00.47 | Azelphur | and I got ranted at by an officer for not being online enough, after she'd just come back from going on holiday for a month haha |
| 23:01.11 | fewyn | did 30k on madness on my warrior |
| 23:01.21 | Azelphur | she started telling me I had to come online in case anyone wanted to contact me, even though I'm probably the easiest person on the planet to contact (I'm available on practically every IM network, and there's even a webpage you can use to contact me) |
| 23:01.37 | Azelphur | so yea, screw that \o/ |
| 23:01.39 | g0urra | she wants you |
| 23:01.47 | Azelphur | haha |
| 23:02.31 | Azelphur | literally, I'm probably one of the most cyberstalkable people you'll ever meet, but not good enough apparently :P |
| 23:02.52 | fewyn | ueaaah |
| 23:02.55 | fewyn | score one for fewyn |
| 23:02.59 | fewyn | won the two-handed sword |
| 23:03.03 | Azelphur | :D |
| 23:03.19 | Azelphur | I did 40k on madness and got grumbled at for not doing enough DPS, haha |
| 23:03.38 | fewyn | this is lfr |
| 23:03.39 | fewyn | so |
| 23:03.41 | fewyn | ~shrug~ |
| 23:03.44 | Azelphur | ah :) |
| 23:03.46 | tate | sup i'm drunk again |
| 23:03.52 | Azelphur | LFR is easy, apply face to keyboard |
| 23:03.56 | tate | i'm so alcoholic :( |
| 23:04.07 | fewyn | one more character left to gear for lfr |
| 23:04.30 | fewyn | and i think i might be able to cheat that by buying a piece of jp stuff |
| 23:04.35 | fewyn | need to check |
| 23:06.00 | *** join/#wowhead BlackNet (~blacknet@adsl-98-66-155-128.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 23:06.02 | *** join/#wowhead BlackNet (~blacknet@unaffiliated/blacknet) |
| 23:06.18 | fewyn | yeah jp wand should do the trick |
| 23:06.39 | Mr_Rabies | i usually do about 48-53k on madness |
| 23:07.32 | *** join/#wowhead Sliker (~ponies@6.34.112.87.dyn.plus.net) |
| 23:07.33 | fewyn | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/velen/Cakecicle/advanced |
| 23:08.50 | tate | wth dat helm |
| 23:09.12 | tate | sick |
| 23:09.18 | tate | oh yeah also |
| 23:09.18 | fewyn | ? |
| 23:09.24 | tate | i was drunk yesterday |
| 23:09.26 | tate | and |
| 23:09.35 | tate | i did ds10 norm and got my destroyerz end :3 |
| 23:10.55 | BlackNet | grats |
| 23:11.20 | Mr_Rabies | the deathwing fight is way more fun than the ragnaros fight was to me for some reason |
| 23:11.40 | tate | well i dno but i was terribly drunk and got it as top dps |
| 23:11.50 | tate | y is pve so eez |
| 23:11.52 | Mr_Rabies | lol |
| 23:11.56 | BlackNet | way to many visual problems on the deathwing fight |
| 23:12.12 | Mr_Rabies | i could see that |
| 23:12.14 | fewyn | y so srs |
| 23:12.14 | Mr_Rabies | there's a lot going on |
| 23:12.25 | BlackNet | for example, hard to see lightwells |
| 23:12.27 | Mr_Rabies | lots of stacking colors and effects and junk |
| 23:12.38 | BlackNet | yup clutter way to dense to see many things. |
| 23:12.59 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, it's total chaos in LFR because half the raid is just aoeing either 1) to look busy or 2) to troll people |
| 23:13.08 | BlackNet | other than that's it is a somewhat fun fight |
| 23:13.21 | Mr_Rabies | the ragnaros fight stacked too many things against me |
| 23:13.23 | BlackNet | but doing 25m on that to so that's one of the problems |
| 23:13.33 | Mr_Rabies | attacking from the front mostly, target swapping, lots of movement |
| 23:13.38 | BlackNet | even on 10m could barely see lightwells |
| 23:13.43 | Mr_Rabies | it just wasn't fun to me |
| 23:13.52 | Mr_Rabies | oh and to knock back the meteors i had to waste 2 GCds |
| 23:13.55 | Mr_Rabies | GCDs |
| 23:14.03 | Mr_Rabies | since i had no ranged attack in cat form :( |
| 23:14.46 | BlackNet | what's interesting is you can have to much dps and 2+ things up at the same time which will wipe the raid |
| 23:15.59 | Mr_Rabies | oh for rags |
| 23:16.00 | Mr_Rabies | yeah |
| 23:16.08 | Mr_Rabies | the nerfs actually hurt us |
| 23:16.14 | BlackNet | :) yup |
| 23:16.18 | Mr_Rabies | because we'd screw up transitions so much |
| 23:16.53 | tate | 12 beers, 5 long drinks and one tequilashot and i still wanna keep gooooing >:C |
| 23:16.55 | BlackNet | like on spine you have to hold dps on the first few then pick it up greatly towards the end. |
| 23:17.18 | Mr_Rabies | oh |
| 23:17.28 | Mr_Rabies | i just don't bother attacking the amalg on first phase at all |
| 23:17.32 | tate | spine in norm is eez |
| 23:17.36 | Mr_Rabies | on normal at least |
| 23:17.39 | tate | but yeah pve is |
| 23:17.43 | Mr_Rabies | i dunno about heroic |
| 23:17.44 | tate | 1-2-3 and vóla |
| 23:18.25 | tate | oh well, going. have fun m8s :3 -> |
| 23:22.27 | *** join/#wowhead Aeyan (Aeyan@cpe-024-163-021-006.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 23:22.53 | fewyn | hrm my decoder ring should be charged around 4am |
| 23:27.40 | BlackNet | we are suppose to be doing sinestra tonight i think |
| 23:28.33 | fewyn | i'm reading the fangs of the father quest guide |
| 23:28.38 | fewyn | it seems actually pretty easy |
| 23:28.47 | fewyn | compared to the last two legendaries |
| 23:29.32 | BlackNet | not read any of them actually |
| 23:29.46 | fewyn | http://www.wowheadnews.com/blog=198532/nimble-fingers-a-guide-to-acquiring-fangs-of-the-father |
| 23:32.55 | *** join/#wowhead Kamikaze28 (~Kamikaze2@unaffiliated/kamikaze28) |
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| 23:55.21 | Laihendi | i'm so sick of politics as usual. we need a washington outsider like mitt romney to bring change to america |
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