| 00:01.01 | AnduinLothar | so do you think it's better to assign it and make table passing faster or make table creation faster by on operation? |
| 00:01.08 | AnduinLothar | one* |
| 00:01.37 | Iriel | I doubt it matters much, which way is the 'recommended' use? |
| 00:01.40 | Iriel | Optimize for that oen |
| 00:01.55 | Iriel | The 'one operation' is a register move, so it's likely near-instantaneous |
| 00:02.12 | AnduinLothar | well, all of it's near instintanious.. |
| 00:02.17 | AnduinLothar | we're splitting hairs |
| 00:02.43 | AnduinLothar | but passing is recommended so i'll assign a local |
| 00:02.47 | Iriel | Let me put that differently.. |
| 00:02.58 | Iriel | I KNOW you can detect an optimized getglobal in a tight loop |
| 00:03.10 | Iriel | I doubt you'd be able to detect an extra register move |
| 00:03.43 | AnduinLothar | nope, no tgetn |
| 00:04.14 | Iriel | but I do agree that in general, we dont care |
| 00:04.38 | Iriel | I certainly dont do that local trick in most of my code, but things I know i'll be calling many times, especially in OnUpdates, i'll do it for |
| 00:04.58 | AnduinLothar | how's this look: http://wow.pastebin.com/453282 |
| 00:06.03 | AnduinLothar | does local t, oldn = oldTable, 0; execute at a diff speed than the same assignment on two lines? |
| 00:06.22 | Iriel | I doubt it, let me look |
| 00:06.55 | AnduinLothar | what about with one static: local init, mstart, mend = 1; |
| 00:07.01 | Iriel | They're identical |
| 00:07.07 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:07.09 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:07.11 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:07.24 | Iriel | function ABC(value) local a,b = value,2; end |
| 00:07.38 | Iriel | function DEF(value) local a = value; local b = 2; end |
| 00:08.11 | *** part/#wowi-lounge zespri (n=andrews@202-180-108-34.jetbuster.co.nz) |
| 00:08.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (n=andrews@202-180-108-34.jetbuster.co.nz) |
| 00:08.21 | Iriel | Those two are identical also |
| 00:08.31 | AnduinLothar | kthx |
| 00:09.34 | Natasem | hey everyone go report this to blizzard a hacks@Blizzard.com http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/12/06/wow-mercury-wowglider/ |
| 00:09.46 | Natasem | so that we can get yet another bot off the game |
| 00:11.10 | AnduinLothar | odd to see that publicized |
| 00:11.29 | Cair | thank you Natasem, forwarded it a bit more directly |
| 00:12.09 | Iriel | Pretty sure it's known about already |
| 00:12.49 | Iriel | If they cared i'd take the time to educate the author of the article about the distinction between 'allowed UI automation' and bots, but they wont. |
| 00:15.04 | Guillotine | ya. i like how the author says that blizz is ok with some automation and lists cosmos... |
| 00:15.14 | Osagasu | >.> |
| 00:15.16 | Osagasu | <.< |
| 00:15.31 | Osagasu | Thunder! THUNDER! THUNDERCATS! HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO |
| 00:15.32 | AnduinLothar | there's a fine line |
| 00:15.40 | Natasem | What's next for WoWglider? Mercury is thinking about adding in custom combat routines to give players, "absolute control of the fight and post-fight resting". He also is giving into user requests to add limited player to player fighting. Mercury had maintained a policy that WoWglider would never be used against another human player, but told us it must be added in to help avoid detection. "A... |
| 00:15.41 | Natasem | ...player who ignores an attacking player looks very suspicious, so we're building in some limited means to fight back," says Mercury. |
| 00:16.01 | AnduinLothar | shield-hearth* |
| 00:16.10 | Iriel | Reading wow's memory is explcitily against the TOS |
| 00:16.12 | Natasem | this game seems to be turning into Asheron's Call all bots |
| 00:16.14 | Iriel | They dont mention that do they? |
| 00:16.27 | Guillotine | nah. there really aren't many bots |
| 00:17.36 | Natasem | http://www.wowglider.com/VForums/ i think there are |
| 00:17.59 | Iriel | You do remember wow has 4 MILLION subscribers, right Natasem ? |
| 00:18.06 | Natasem | all i did was google the wowglider name and came up with that |
| 00:18.16 | Natasem | ya and how many of them are gold farmers lol |
| 00:19.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 00:20.50 | Iriel | It would be amusing if blizzard just banned all this guy's users' accounts. |
| 00:20.59 | Guillotine | shouldnt warden be catching that program? |
| 00:21.17 | ForgottenLords | Question: is there an easy method of removing an item from a table indexed by a string? the table.remove() only accepts integers |
| 00:21.28 | Iriel | ForgottenLords : tableName[key] = nil |
| 00:21.59 | ForgottenLords | thats ALL? |
| 00:22.02 | ForgottenLords | seems too simple |
| 00:22.06 | AnduinLothar | lol |
| 00:22.18 | AnduinLothar | that's all, unless you've been tracking the size |
| 00:23.03 | AnduinLothar | in which case you would decrement it with table.setn(tableName, table.getn(tableName)-1) |
| 00:23.16 | AnduinLothar | but i doubt ur doing that so you can ignore it |
| 00:24.50 | ForgottenLords | No, I am not keeping a counter |
| 00:24.57 | ForgottenLords | I bow before your supremecy ;) |
| 00:25.08 | AnduinLothar | please don't. i'm an ass |
| 00:25.19 | ForgottenLords | I assumed that it would leave the key in, just set the contents to nil. |
| 00:25.33 | AnduinLothar | same thing. |
| 00:27.01 | Iriel | tables never 'release' memory |
| 00:27.07 | Iriel | they just stick it into a free list to re-use later |
| 00:27.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guest3333 (i=legorol@cpc3-cmbg6-6-0-cust238.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 00:27.39 | Iriel | nil'ing out an existing entry just moves it to that free list |
| 00:27.49 | AnduinLothar | hey leg |
| 00:28.01 | Legorol | hiya |
| 00:28.04 | Cair | hey Lego |
| 00:28.32 | AnduinLothar | krka, iriel and I optimized ur split function. hopefully it'll make getValue and setValue a lil more efficient too |
| 00:29.45 | pagefault | kergoth, how are you liking the HUD |
| 00:31.40 | kergoth | pagefault: its really nice |
| 00:31.43 | Iriel | well, we optimized YOURS, technically 8-) |
| 00:31.58 | Iriel | krka's did all the same things, but changed the loop |
| 00:32.04 | pagefault | kergoth, yeah I like it too |
| 00:32.29 | Iriel | Oh, NM,.. I misinterpreted your comment 8-) |
| 00:32.39 | Iriel | You were talking to Lego, not krka 8-) |
| 00:32.43 | AnduinLothar | right, well thott wrote the orig code, leg changed it and we worked on optimizing it |
| 00:33.24 | pagefault | kergoth, yay dispell is getting it's mana cost doubled |
| 00:33.32 | pagefault | kergoth, I can finally use DoTs again |
| 00:33.33 | cladhaire | *cry* |
| 00:33.46 | AnduinLothar | tears? |
| 00:34.00 | AnduinLothar | ont he mana cost? |
| 00:34.15 | pagefault | it's good now because it's balanced now |
| 00:34.24 | pagefault | when the patch comes out I mean |
| 00:34.29 | cladhaire | for pvp yeah.. it sucks for pve |
| 00:34.32 | cladhaire | but im not worried |
| 00:34.51 | AnduinLothar | harder pve isn't a bad thing |
| 00:35.00 | pagefault | oh well this game isn't really about pve anymore |
| 00:35.08 | pagefault | it's more and more becoming a pvp only game |
| 00:35.25 | AnduinLothar | i dissagree, but it is important to be pvp ballenced |
| 00:35.26 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, i see the changes, so it's essentially just making local refs to the library functions? |
| 00:35.27 | cladhaire | It hurts horde the most, but i'm okay |
| 00:35.31 | pagefault | you got your instances but people want to kick ass in pvp, not fighting NPCs |
| 00:35.32 | Legorol | or is there something else too that i missed |
| 00:35.37 | Natasem | ay that would be cool if blue would ust ban all his accounts |
| 00:35.50 | Iriel | Legorol : Yours was re-constructing the pattern every iteration |
| 00:35.55 | Iriel | Legorol : Rather than doing it once at the start |
| 00:36.05 | Natasem | actually all blue needs to do is get that program then reverse enginnere it and they wil then have a way to detect it |
| 00:36.18 | Iriel | Legorol : I'll note you STILL need to write code in to handle -, ], and % separators |
| 00:36.24 | Iriel | Actually, not - |
| 00:36.27 | Iriel | just ] and % |
| 00:36.31 | pagefault | cladhaire, true but it pissed me off when I would cast a 400 mana DoT on someone and for half of that they can dispell it |
| 00:36.44 | Legorol | Iriel, right, that's something that was probably there in the old code |
| 00:37.04 | Legorol | yeah |
| 00:37.10 | Legorol | nice changes |
| 00:37.32 | cladhaire | pagefault yeah i always thought that sucked. |
| 00:37.46 | AnduinLothar | can you do the ] and % replacements with a single call? |
| 00:37.59 | Iriel | not nicely |
| 00:38.15 | Iriel | you'd be better off with either (a) 2 if statements or (b) a note saying 'Dont use these' |
| 00:38.22 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 00:38.46 | Legorol | Iriel, is it really worth the performance improvement to assign a local to a function that is a table element that is only called twice? |
| 00:38.50 | Legorol | e.g. table.getn |
| 00:39.09 | Legorol | what's the overhead of a local reference creation vs. table lookup? |
| 00:39.10 | Iriel | we talked about that |
| 00:39.16 | Iriel | it's one MOVE opcode |
| 00:39.22 | Iriel | which is likely undetectable |
| 00:39.31 | Iriel | versus (on the other side) a getglobal, which si definitely detectable |
| 00:39.36 | Legorol | ok so you end up having to do a table lookup once anyway |
| 00:39.53 | Iriel | and, since using a work table is the 'recommended' approach, AnduinLothar dwecided to optimize for that case |
| 00:39.56 | Legorol | so i guess the comparison is between the overhead of the local assignment, versus one table lookup |
| 00:40.24 | Legorol | i can see how the local assign is better |
| 00:41.28 | AnduinLothar | the only difference would be if you didn't pass a table and noPurge was true (which shouldn't happen) then it would assign but never use it |
| 00:41.44 | Legorol | i just thought of another thing |
| 00:41.51 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : true |
| 00:42.00 | Legorol | the code uses table.setn to clear the size |
| 00:42.10 | AnduinLothar | only once |
| 00:42.11 | Legorol | it might be more efficient to do t.n = 0 |
| 00:42.14 | Legorol | yes |
| 00:42.16 | Iriel | Lego NONONONONOO |
| 00:42.19 | Legorol | no? |
| 00:42.29 | Legorol | i know you don't like explicit n field |
| 00:42.29 | Iriel | setn does NOT use the 'n' index |
| 00:42.32 | Legorol | i know that |
| 00:42.36 | Iriel | that's OLD, it's pre-5.1 |
| 00:42.37 | Legorol | but getn does use it if it does exist |
| 00:42.39 | AnduinLothar | that would onyl work if u were using th Sea push/pop methods |
| 00:42.46 | Iriel | but dont use it, it's obsolete |
| 00:42.53 | pagefault | wow |
| 00:42.54 | pagefault | nvidia's nzone "system checker" recommended I upgraded my ATI drivers to the latest version |
| 00:42.56 | Legorol | ehm.. ok i'm confused |
| 00:43.08 | Legorol | table.getn() returns the value of the n field if it exists, right? |
| 00:43.23 | Iriel | yes it does |
| 00:43.24 | Legorol | so the question is, what's the performance difference in the getn calls |
| 00:43.27 | Iriel | for now. |
| 00:43.37 | Legorol | for now? it's changing? |
| 00:43.50 | AnduinLothar | in 5.1 but possibly not wow |
| 00:44.00 | Iriel | who knows, i'd hope so eventually, they have been dropping deprecated stuff |
| 00:44.02 | Legorol | if the performance of getn is the same irrespective of whether you get the hidden field or the real n, |
| 00:44.19 | Legorol | but t.n=0 is better than setn, then it might make sense to use t.n=0 |
| 00:44.25 | Iriel | Well, that'd be hard to measure, but i'll see |
| 00:44.32 | Legorol | if we are optimizing, i don't mind if it's deprecated or not |
| 00:44.38 | Legorol | as long as something's more efficient, then i'd use it |
| 00:44.40 | cladhaire | O.o |
| 00:44.49 | Iriel | I sure as hell wont use your library if it sticks crap in my tables 8-) |
| 00:44.56 | Legorol | ehm.. |
| 00:44.57 | cladhaire | How many times does it happen? |
| 00:44.58 | cladhaire | once? |
| 00:45.02 | Legorol | this isn't about sticking crap in your table |
| 00:45.02 | Iriel | but i'm not the target audience 8-) |
| 00:45.04 | cladhaire | then optimizing it is a useless point |
| 00:45.05 | AnduinLothar | heh, yes |
| 00:45.05 | Legorol | this is a returned value |
| 00:45.12 | Legorol | it's up to the lib function to decide what it returns |
| 00:45.17 | AnduinLothar | once clad, lol |
| 00:45.22 | cladhaire | then don't touch it |
| 00:45.23 | cladhaire | honestly |
| 00:45.28 | AnduinLothar | and we've been arguing about it for an hour or 2 |
| 00:45.44 | AnduinLothar | twice on occation |
| 00:45.45 | cladhaire | the one or two op difference is not noticeable.. even with the table looking and functino overhead |
| 00:46.12 | Legorol | well the split function seem to have undergone some pretty aggressive optimization |
| 00:46.22 | Legorol | might as well go all the way, if there is further juice to be squeezed out of it |
| 00:46.36 | AnduinLothar | :) would rather attack the rest |
| 00:46.39 | cladhaire | Not if it means dipping ito a deprecated feature to gain no opimization |
| 00:46.42 | AnduinLothar | or things that use split |
| 00:46.49 | Legorol | cladhaire, why wouldn't it gain optimizaiton? |
| 00:47.00 | Legorol | split needs to be optimized aggressively because it gets called many times |
| 00:47.04 | Legorol | any little gain is a gain |
| 00:47.09 | cladhaire | Not to a deprecated feature |
| 00:47.12 | cladhaire | its just a bad idea imo |
| 00:47.16 | cladhaire | you're welcome to do as you wish =) |
| 00:47.17 | AnduinLothar | prefrence |
| 00:47.36 | cladhaire | I could write a hook library in assembly for pure optimization, but that doesn't mean its a good idea =) |
| 00:47.40 | AnduinLothar | i dont think using a depricated feature for a single call is worth it in this instance |
| 00:47.51 | pagefault | kergoth, how do I turn off the way gold is displayed it's like 1.10.01 |
| 00:47.58 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, you are prolly right |
| 00:48.03 | pagefault | kergoth, I liked the old way :) |
| 00:48.10 | Legorol | btw, is this n thing going to be deprecated in 5.1? |
| 00:48.22 | kergoth | pagefault: its an addon doing it, you can disable it, or.. not sure if it has a chat option or not |
| 00:48.25 | Iriel | I'm not sure |
| 00:48.49 | cladhaire | Anduin: profile the difference between the two algorithms |
| 00:48.53 | cladhaire | that shoudl expose any differences |
| 00:49.04 | Iriel | .n is faster for an empty table |
| 00:49.04 | AnduinLothar | which ones? |
| 00:49.15 | cladhaire | but how much faster is the point |
| 00:49.17 | AnduinLothar | oh those |
| 00:49.29 | kergoth | setn doesnt even exist in 5.1. |
| 00:49.39 | kergoth | and i dont believe it obeys the non-hidden n either, though i'd have to confirm that |
| 00:49.39 | AnduinLothar | O.o |
| 00:49.41 | cladhaire | take split with .n = and with setn and see what sort of difference is exposed in the 1.25 million iterations =) |
| 00:50.01 | AnduinLothar | ah, i spose.. |
| 00:50.19 | kergoth | #t and maxn() are the ways to get at the number of elements.. unfortunately, there's no metamethod for #t yet |
| 00:50.26 | cladhaire | then use those numbers to help decide whether its worth it.. unless you've decided against it in which case I'll shut up now =) |
| 00:50.45 | AnduinLothar | in the mean time, how bout you guys ponder this: http://wow.pastebin.com/453354 |
| 00:50.48 | Iriel | on my desktop |
| 00:51.03 | Iriel | setn is approx 6ns |
| 00:51.10 | Iriel | and .n is approx 1.3ns |
| 00:51.18 | Iriel | sorry, not ns |
| 00:51.20 | Iriel | us |
| 00:51.29 | AnduinLothar | micro seconds? |
| 00:51.32 | Iriel | got to get my units right |
| 00:51.33 | Iriel | yeah |
| 00:51.42 | Iriel | 1/1000 ms = 1 us, right? |
| 00:51.46 | Iriel | Am I going senile in my old age? |
| 00:52.20 | cladhaire | Iriel: how may trials did you run? |
| 00:52.21 | AnduinLothar | ms = 10^3 us = 10^6 ns = 10^9 |
| 00:52.35 | AnduinLothar | 1/ |
| 00:52.39 | Iriel | 10 million, 3 times |
| 00:53.09 | AnduinLothar | on what size table? |
| 00:53.36 | Iriel | Empty table, as I said earlier, though of course, it ends up non-empty once .n has been executed once |
| 00:53.44 | Iriel | I use a fresh table for each run of iterations |
| 00:53.52 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 00:54.13 | AnduinLothar | so setn is significantly faster |
| 00:54.14 | kergoth | 1.6us vs 6us isnt going to be noticable for something like that, i wouldnt think. it isnt likely to be in a critical path |
| 00:54.24 | Iriel | setn is slower |
| 00:54.29 | cladhaire | not suprising results given its competing with a function call and a table lookup |
| 00:54.32 | Iriel | i'm guessing its the function call |
| 00:54.35 | AnduinLothar | oh, i thought u mean 6ns vs 1.6us |
| 00:54.40 | cladhaire | I just dont think its worth it for the gain |
| 00:54.43 | Iriel | no, theyreboth in us 8-) |
| 00:54.47 | AnduinLothar | :P |
| 00:54.51 | cladhaire | Iriel: haha that make sa huge difference =) |
| 00:54.56 | cladhaire | Yeah.. not worth it imo =) |
| 00:55.23 | cladhaire | Anduin: Where does GetValue get used, in what circumstances? |
| 00:55.39 | AnduinLothar | mmk, well lemme plug that in and see if i get noticible fps difference with my 200 onupdate hooks |
| 00:55.53 | AnduinLothar | pretty much everywhere clad |
| 00:56.22 | cladhaire | Anduin: but for what purpose.. |
| 00:56.46 | Legorol | kergoth, i just looked at the 5.1 manual, and it does list a metamethod for the # operator |
| 00:56.48 | Vallerius | hmm... is there a way to get a stack trace from a wow ui error? this error message is delightfully unhelpful |
| 00:56.50 | AnduinLothar | it's equivelent to the way ace does database lookups on a table that may not exist |
| 00:57.00 | cladhaire | It marches a table safely? |
| 00:57.02 | cladhaire | K |
| 00:57.03 | AnduinLothar | except it does it with a string |
| 00:57.17 | kergoth | Legorol: really? that didnt exist in the last beta i tested. there was a patch available though. thats great news |
| 00:57.18 | cladhaire | I don't know Ace stuff much, and haven't done any Sea coding.. so I have to relate it to straight code =) |
| 00:57.46 | AnduinLothar | k, then marches a table safely then while still allowing previous string manipulation |
| 00:57.55 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 00:58.13 | Iriel | Amusingly enough, .n makes getn faster, i'm guessing because supporting .n the way it does requires it to look for .n first anyway |
| 00:59.06 | AnduinLothar | if you set .n to 0 on inti will it use n for subsequent table.inserts? |
| 00:59.08 | Iriel | You know, you would almost certainly be able to make getValue faster by putting the split code into it |
| 00:59.11 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : yes |
| 00:59.28 | Iriel | because then you can terminate early if you hit a missing subtable |
| 00:59.30 | AnduinLothar | right, but split is used elswhere |
| 00:59.43 | AnduinLothar | like in slash command parsing |
| 00:59.56 | Iriel | Yes, i'm not saying get dirof split |
| 01:00.08 | Iriel | I'm saying, GetValue is called so damn often you probably want to put the logic into it |
| 01:00.26 | cladhaire | duplication of code in something that's called that frequently is a good thing =) |
| 01:00.36 | cladhaire | saving the function call may help a lot |
| 01:00.43 | Iriel | I'd ALSO say, you should do it krka's way |
| 01:00.51 | Iriel | rather than using split's |
| 01:01.02 | AnduinLothar | for this instance anyway, in which case it might be faster |
| 01:01.10 | Iriel | which would give you a nice clean early return for the simple case |
| 01:01.22 | Iriel | without much screwing around with substrings |
| 01:01.27 | AnduinLothar | what would that look like |
| 01:01.43 | Iriel | (Fore Lego, who wasn't here, that is to use string.find(variableName, '.', 0, 1) |
| 01:02.16 | Legorol | right, i was about to ask ;-) thanks |
| 01:02.19 | AnduinLothar | in a while loop? |
| 01:02.26 | cladhaire | You'd save a lot that way |
| 01:02.28 | Iriel | well, you'd do one test outside the loop |
| 01:02.31 | Legorol | i presume that's to avoid call to split |
| 01:02.34 | Iriel | and either return early if no dots |
| 01:02.39 | Legorol | so how about adding the test instead to split? |
| 01:02.39 | Iriel | or get the global name if tehre is a dot |
| 01:02.43 | Iriel | then loop for the rest |
| 01:03.08 | cladhaire | Legorol: You could add it to both, but you'd want to avoid hitting split here if possible. |
| 01:03.20 | Legorol | is that because of the function call overhead? |
| 01:03.21 | Iriel | that would eliminate the work table too |
| 01:03.35 | Legorol | the work table is created only once, overall |
| 01:03.37 | AnduinLothar | some leg, but also because nonregex is faster |
| 01:03.38 | cladhaire | Legorol: Yeah.. |
| 01:03.39 | Iriel | the function call overhead, all the table overhead |
| 01:03.40 | Legorol | not once per call to getvalue |
| 01:03.45 | Iriel | yeahm but you look it up a thousand damntimes |
| 01:03.52 | cladhaire | Table lookups aren't free. |
| 01:03.55 | Iriel | you guys suck at localizing deep references |
| 01:03.57 | cladhaire | they are relatively speaking.. but not in this case |
| 01:03.57 | Iriel | Really |
| 01:04.07 | Iriel | local valueTable = Sea.util.valueTable |
| 01:04.10 | Legorol | Iriel, i think that's a bit harsh.. |
| 01:04.12 | Legorol | :-) |
| 01:04.17 | Iriel | if (not valueTable) then valueTable = {}; Sea.util.valueTable = valueTable; end |
| 01:04.18 | Legorol | it's more like, we are just starting to learn about these things |
| 01:04.31 | Iriel | I meant it in a friendly way 8-) |
| 01:04.34 | Legorol | k |
| 01:04.39 | Iriel | But sea hooks was HORRIBLE at that |
| 01:04.54 | Iriel | it'd look up the same nested object 10 times on sucessive lines |
| 01:04.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Stylpe (n=Stylpe@98.84-48-162.nextgentel.com) |
| 01:05.00 | Legorol | it's like the Y2K bug: people didn't know better at the time ;-) |
| 01:05.20 | Bela|DrakaHorde | yeah except this is the gift that keeps on giving |
| 01:05.22 | Iriel | But anyway, I've seen that getValue is used EXTENSIVELY |
| 01:05.25 | Legorol | plus i think most coders came from backgrounds where readable code was more imoprtant |
| 01:05.25 | Bela|DrakaHorde | =P |
| 01:05.29 | AnduinLothar | iriel, you do know how to update code in pastebin, dont u, hint hint |
| 01:05.39 | Legorol | whereas with WoW we are learning the importance of aggressive optimization in realtime games |
| 01:05.44 | Legorol | at least i am |
| 01:05.46 | Iriel | I dont think localizing leads to less readability |
| 01:05.47 | Legorol | finding it very educational |
| 01:05.52 | cladhaire | can't we have it all =) |
| 01:05.58 | Iriel | and in fact it can help avoid typographic errors |
| 01:06.17 | Bela|DrakaHorde | memory is your friend, would you overuse your friends? |
| 01:06.22 | AnduinLothar | provided your variable names are clear |
| 01:06.28 | Bela|DrakaHorde | sorry, this is my night for one-liners |
| 01:07.22 | Iriel | Bela : keep them coming 8-) |
| 01:07.58 | Iriel | As for pastebin, sadly i'm splitting my time between work and this, so I can't do it yet.. Pity krka isn't here |
| 01:09.06 | Legorol | using local references is definitely something that we should start using |
| 01:09.16 | Tain | Memory, all alone in the Lua light. |
| 01:09.22 | Legorol | it's somethign that only affects Lua, and most of the stuff like Sea was written with a C++/Java mindset |
| 01:09.52 | Iriel | That's not true either |
| 01:10.04 | Iriel | As I have to remind my java developers sometimes |
| 01:10.15 | Iriel | Though the java compiler can take a few more liberties in optimization, sometimes |
| 01:10.23 | cladhaire | The same principles should be goals for languages in general |
| 01:10.27 | Legorol | what i meant was that not enough appreciation went into the fact that Sea.util.someFunc is evaluated at runtime as table lookups |
| 01:10.37 | Legorol | that's not true for Java, or is it? |
| 01:10.44 | Legorol | at least not in the same way |
| 01:10.51 | Iriel | But even in java.. object.field.subField is evaluated at runtime |
| 01:10.57 | Legorol | right |
| 01:11.04 | Iriel | sure the name resolutions are bound, but you still have to traverse the object tree |
| 01:11.27 | Legorol | you know, the more I learn about how to optimize stuff in WoW the sadder I get |
| 01:11.28 | Iriel | it's arguably less of an issue |
| 01:11.48 | Legorol | because it's taking away the freedom to write code that feels comfortable when writing |
| 01:11.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine_ (n=Guilloti@63.203.120.57) |
| 01:11.53 | Iriel | Not at all |
| 01:11.57 | Legorol | e.g. one of my biggest gripes is not being able to use ellipses |
| 01:11.58 | AnduinLothar | it sure does suck the life outa u |
| 01:12.00 | Iriel | Write your code however you want to write it |
| 01:12.10 | Iriel | then optimize those parts which really need it |
| 01:12.16 | Iriel | there's no sense in optimizing a command handler, for example |
| 01:12.25 | Legorol | it's still a boring and tedious part that is not that much fun |
| 01:12.25 | Iriel | because it's called so infrequently it's not worth it |
| 01:12.34 | Legorol | and the ugliness of 20-argument function calls... yuck |
| 01:12.38 | Iriel | Well, you're the ones who decided you wanted to get into the hooking business 8-) |
| 01:12.43 | cladhaire | lol |
| 01:12.54 | Bela|DrakaHorde | damn hookers |
| 01:12.57 | Legorol | hooking business? nah, only drugs |
| 01:12.59 | AnduinLothar | mmm... yeah ok. ratioanlits out the window.. |
| 01:12.59 | Iriel | I happily use ... in function hooks |
| 01:13.04 | Iriel | and will continue to do so |
| 01:13.07 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 01:13.16 | cladhaire | most times it doesn't matter a damn |
| 01:13.22 | Legorol | what does ... has to do with function hooks? |
| 01:13.28 | cladhaire | Legorol: everything |
| 01:13.33 | cladhaire | Legorol: Its the heart of the issue |
| 01:13.33 | AnduinLothar | that was the first thing we tried to optimize |
| 01:13.39 | Legorol | the performance implication of ... is one thing |
| 01:13.58 | Legorol | the fact that it happens to be used in function hooks as well as other stuff is another |
| 01:14.00 | AnduinLothar | SeaHooks use split and getvalue |
| 01:14.29 | Tain | What's SeaHooks? |
| 01:14.36 | AnduinLothar | O.o |
| 01:14.46 | AnduinLothar | um an embeddable hooking lib |
| 01:14.50 | Legorol | yeah what is it and why is it not on our SVN, AnduinLothar ;-) |
| 01:15.04 | AnduinLothar | it is leg, jut not the most recent one |
| 01:15.05 | Legorol | oh it is, don't mind me |
| 01:15.17 | Iriel | There's a certain paranoia about garbage inducing functions that I think is taken too far |
| 01:15.28 | AnduinLothar | 'get in here' |
| 01:15.29 | cladhaire | Iriel: not when they end up hooking OnUpdates |
| 01:15.37 | Legorol | Iriel, you are probably right |
| 01:15.38 | Iriel | cladhaire : Correct |
| 01:15.42 | Tain | Ah but that's the thing, sometimes inbeddable hookers end up costing a lot. |
| 01:15.46 | Iriel | But people then shy away from them EVERYWHERE |
| 01:15.49 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 01:15.50 | Legorol | as far as i could see, there was a period in the UI community where suddenly garbage became a "big issue" |
| 01:15.55 | Iriel | and that's what i mean by 'too far' |
| 01:15.59 | Legorol | and everyone and their grandma started aggressively optimizing everything |
| 01:15.59 | cladhaire | Garbage was a huge issue.. and still is |
| 01:16.08 | cladhaire | the 1.25 threshold in WoW causes some problems |
| 01:16.14 | Iriel | garbage from frequenly fired events and onupdates is a huge problem |
| 01:16.20 | AnduinLothar | garbage doesn't bother me as much as speed atm |
| 01:16.24 | cladhaire | I can hit GC every minute.. which sometimes has no effect.. but sometimes can be a big problem |
| 01:16.28 | Iriel | garbage from slash commands and button clicks, not so much |
| 01:16.38 | AnduinLothar | at my 10 fps i hit gc every 5 min or so |
| 01:16.44 | cladhaire | stuff like that should be written so the code looks and works as it should |
| 01:16.57 | cladhaire | optimizing anythign that requires a click or keypress of some sort is almost silly |
| 01:17.11 | Legorol | right |
| 01:17.28 | Legorol | unfortunately there is still plenty of stuff in OnUpdates that needs optimizing :( |
| 01:17.39 | Cair | that's what I was thinking too Codayus ;) |
| 01:18.06 | Codayus | :-) |
| 01:18.13 | Legorol | you know, out of sheer perversions, i sometimes run with no addons |
| 01:18.16 | Legorol | just to feel the "fresh air" |
| 01:18.20 | Legorol | it's quite refreshing ;-) |
| 01:18.36 | kergoth | its quite ugly is what it is :P |
| 01:18.38 | Iriel | I dont notice any difference, performance wise |
| 01:18.40 | AnduinLothar | i did that in a raid once.. i was pretty useless |
| 01:18.42 | Legorol | in fact i had an alt that i decided i will play with just the default UI |
| 01:18.50 | Tain | I find using liberal amounts of, "goto" statements instead of silly loops and function calls improves performance greatly. |
| 01:18.52 | Iriel | but then I dont run many addons |
| 01:18.56 | Legorol | didn't last too long... EquipCompare was the first to arrive :D |
| 01:19.15 | Legorol | Iriel, i run the crappy bloatware that is Cosmos ;-) |
| 01:19.15 | Codayus | I can't really live without my addons. :-) |
| 01:19.32 | AnduinLothar | is there a 3rd return arg from string.find(variableName, '.', 0, 1) ? |
| 01:19.40 | Legorol | rofl @ Cair |
| 01:19.41 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : no |
| 01:19.44 | cladhaire | I need WatchDog for click-casting.. and my tooltip addon |
| 01:19.47 | AnduinLothar | k, onyl with regex |
| 01:19.47 | Legorol | AnduinLothar: i think so |
| 01:19.51 | cladhaire | thats it. |
| 01:19.58 | Osagasu | ~cair, valley girl |
| 01:19.58 | Legorol | does it not return captures? |
| 01:19.58 | Cair | did I not get that right? |
| 01:19.59 | Osagasu | >.> |
| 01:20.02 | Osagasu | <.<; |
| 01:20.06 | Iriel | Legorol : that form doesn't HAVE a capture 8-) |
| 01:20.08 | Cair | omg, like, rilly? |
| 01:20.12 | AnduinLothar | '.' has no () |
| 01:20.12 | Codayus | Yeah, a priest ithout clickcasting...how would that even work? |
| 01:20.19 | cladhaire | *shudder* |
| 01:20.20 | AnduinLothar | hotkeys ftw |
| 01:20.20 | Legorol | oh right |
| 01:20.22 | Legorol | oops |
| 01:20.23 | cladhaire | Danboo is my savior |
| 01:20.27 | Codayus | I just don't see it. |
| 01:20.36 | cladhaire | Anduin: i can kick a hokey priest's ass any day =) |
| 01:20.44 | AnduinLothar | of course u can |
| 01:20.53 | Guillotine | woohoo! someone actually said thank you on the WoW UI forums! quick! bookmark it everyone! http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=276511&s=new&tmp=1#new |
| 01:21.04 | AnduinLothar | and i can kick ur ass on my pally with AQ_ClickCast |
| 01:21.06 | Legorol | btw, is the call string.find(var, ".", 0, 1) legal? |
| 01:21.07 | Codayus | omg wtf hax!? |
| 01:21.09 | cladhaire | hahah |
| 01:21.14 | Legorol | the lua man says the 4th argument should be a boolean |
| 01:21.31 | Legorol | with an implementation change, it can go from 1 as 4th arg working to not working, no? |
| 01:21.33 | Iriel | It wotks 8-) |
| 01:21.42 | AnduinLothar | 1 is true in lua |
| 01:21.43 | Legorol | i know it works, but is it not better to use true? |
| 01:21.48 | Codayus | a boolean? um...that can't be right... |
| 01:21.48 | Legorol | AnduinLothar: not exactly |
| 01:21.51 | AnduinLothar | w/e |
| 01:21.52 | Iriel | I dunno about 'better', it might be |
| 01:21.54 | Legorol | "1 == true" is false |
| 01:22.02 | Iriel | LUA defines anything that is not nil or false as 'true' |
| 01:22.04 | AnduinLothar | bah, stop nit picking it |
| 01:22.09 | Iriel | and all of the functions respect that |
| 01:22.18 | Osagasu | emulate cair |
| 01:22.22 | Legorol | Iriel, Lua defines anything that is not nil or false to "evaluate" to true in a logical expression |
| 01:22.23 | AnduinLothar | in if(var) then no one cares |
| 01:22.24 | Osagasu | ~emulate cair |
| 01:22.29 | purl | omg, like, rilly? |
| 01:22.29 | Cair | *purrs* |
| 01:22.29 | Legorol | it doesn't define them to be equivalent to |
| 01:22.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (n=profi@user-12hdr8d.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 01:22.40 | Legorol | and yes, i'm nitpicking :-) |
| 01:22.52 | AnduinLothar | nit pick something useful |
| 01:23.07 | Legorol | spoilsport.. |
| 01:23.15 | Legorol | half the fun of coding addons is nitpicking ;-) |
| 01:23.25 | Iriel | In Lua, both nil and false make a condition false; any other value makes it true |
| 01:23.29 | Iriel | (from the manual) |
| 01:23.31 | AnduinLothar | so strfind will just find the first instance, correct? |
| 01:23.47 | Iriel | the first instance from the start position you give it |
| 01:23.52 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 01:24.02 | Legorol | i wish strfind had an arg to tell it to look from the end |
| 01:24.25 | Iriel | I guess they figure you'll just use a regexp for that |
| 01:24.29 | Legorol | had to use a regex for that |
| 01:24.30 | AnduinLothar | i wrote a Sea.string.endsWith |
| 01:24.31 | Legorol | yeah |
| 01:24.40 | cladhaire | Legorol: doesn't -1 work? |
| 01:25.02 | Iriel | I think that tells it to start looking 1 from the end |
| 01:25.04 | AnduinLothar | doubt it's efficient tho |
| 01:25.06 | Iriel | but it still looks 'forwards' |
| 01:25.17 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, not endsWith |
| 01:25.19 | cladhaire | aaah |
| 01:25.22 | Legorol | but rather look from the end |
| 01:25.29 | AnduinLothar | right i know |
| 01:25.38 | AnduinLothar | endswith is all ive ever needed in that regard tho |
| 01:25.47 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : You should do the s == suffix test before EVEYRTHING else and return if it's true 8-) |
| 01:25.57 | AnduinLothar | ? |
| 01:26.03 | Iriel | in endsWith |
| 01:26.10 | Legorol | that would change the semantics, Iriel |
| 01:26.17 | Legorol | at the moment you return nil if either of them is not a string |
| 01:26.22 | Legorol | it's like the UnitIsUnit argument ;-) |
| 01:26.24 | Tain | I'm anti-semantic. |
| 01:26.29 | Iriel | Ok, then put it as the first thing inside the type check then |
| 01:26.36 | Legorol | does a string end with a string when neither is a string? :-) |
| 01:26.45 | Iriel | Either way, it should happen ebfore you bother to do the length of the strings |
| 01:26.51 | Legorol | that's true |
| 01:27.03 | Iriel | Also, your method is inconsistent with Lua |
| 01:27.13 | AnduinLothar | ok, i'm not lookign at that code so ull need to pastebin the change so i remember |
| 01:27.15 | Iriel | Since Lua automatically coerces numbers to strings |
| 01:27.33 | Tain | It's silly not to look at other people's code. Everyone's doing things differently with Lua since you can. |
| 01:27.40 | Iriel | Yeah, i download Sea occasionally so i can figure out what on earth AnduinLothar is talking about 8-) |
| 01:27.41 | AnduinLothar | im still working on getValue |
| 01:27.59 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, it needs work? :-p |
| 01:28.07 | Iriel | Someone needs to fix colorToString too, it's pretty awful |
| 01:28.25 | Legorol | you just volunteered yourself, Iriel ;-) |
| 01:28.30 | AnduinLothar | yes leg, i'm inserting a krka variable split |
| 01:28.42 | Legorol | okidoki |
| 01:29.32 | AnduinLothar | no leg, ur sposed to pick another function to fix. it's a group project |
| 01:30.01 | Tain | Just print out the Sea code, put it up on a board, and toss a daart. |
| 01:30.02 | Iriel | any of you lot got an SVN/CVS version of Sea open? |
| 01:30.09 | Tain | Wherever it lands... bam! |
| 01:30.11 | Tain | That's your code. |
| 01:30.13 | Iriel | I acn give you a bunch of minor improvements now |
| 01:30.42 | AnduinLothar | liek i said, pastbin it and i'll copy-past it in when i update Sea sometime in the near future |
| 01:30.58 | Legorol | Iriel, shoot |
| 01:31.00 | AnduinLothar | so i'm not workign on a branched copy |
| 01:31.01 | Iriel | maybe I should just ask for svn commit access 8-) |
| 01:31.14 | Iriel | Legorol : Ok.. Sea.math.lua |
| 01:31.17 | Legorol | now now, are you trying to say you want SVN access to Cosmos? |
| 01:31.21 | Legorol | what has the world come to.. |
| 01:31.23 | Legorol | ;-) |
| 01:31.24 | Gryphen | hehe |
| 01:31.28 | Iriel | Legorol : hexFromInt |
| 01:31.28 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, that ok if i do these now? |
| 01:31.33 | Legorol | hold on, let me open it |
| 01:31.57 | AnduinLothar | mmm, i have changes to sea.io sea.util and sea.string |
| 01:31.57 | Legorol | ok go on |
| 01:32.00 | Legorol | ah |
| 01:32.03 | Legorol | wait then |
| 01:32.05 | AnduinLothar | and sea.lua |
| 01:32.08 | Legorol | any chance you could commit those first? |
| 01:32.14 | Iriel | Actually, as it is it's broken 8-) |
| 01:32.23 | Iriel | Do you want a fixed one or just a cleaner one? |
| 01:32.25 | AnduinLothar | not really. they involve upgrading to SeaHooks |
| 01:32.42 | AnduinLothar | and I need to make print use the 20 arg method |
| 01:33.12 | Legorol | ok then Iriel, only tell me stuff that is not in sea.io, util, string or Sea |
| 01:33.17 | AnduinLothar | but if u commit them i'm just merge um into mine is pose |
| 01:33.31 | Legorol | i will just avoid them for now |
| 01:33.33 | AnduinLothar | k |
| 01:33.37 | Gryphen | should be so difficult... |
| 01:33.39 | Gryphen | lol |
| 01:33.39 | Legorol | i'm sure i can get Iriel in the mood again some other time ;-) |
| 01:33.48 | Gryphen | shouldnt* |
| 01:33.51 | Legorol | so, what about infromhex? |
| 01:33.58 | Legorol | or hexfromint or whatever |
| 01:33.59 | AnduinLothar | nah, he's hot, suck him dry |
| 01:34.09 | Cair | o.O |
| 01:34.12 | Cair | O.o |
| 01:34.12 | Iriel | http://pastebin.com/453419 |
| 01:34.17 | Legorol | that is definitely worrying.. |
| 01:34.30 | Iriel | I'll note the currently version turns 2 into " 2" not "02" |
| 01:34.31 | Gryphen | that was NSFW! |
| 01:34.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge nomad_wanderer (n=NomadWan@cpe-66-67-110-36.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 01:34.51 | AnduinLothar | figured id enter the one-liner arena |
| 01:34.55 | Legorol | so what's broken about it? |
| 01:35.01 | Iriel | My note. |
| 01:35.06 | Legorol | ah right |
| 01:35.09 | Iriel | See the comment 'minlength - the zero padding' |
| 01:35.17 | Iriel | as written, it's space padding, 'cos you forgot the . |
| 01:36.04 | Legorol | where is this comment? |
| 01:36.08 | Legorol | i see your point though |
| 01:36.13 | Legorol | ah right |
| 01:36.16 | Legorol | ok, got it |
| 01:37.01 | Iriel | round is fairly amusing too |
| 01:37.51 | Iriel | though I need to make sure a clean version behaves identically, one sec |
| 01:38.49 | Legorol | would it be better to check for negativity, then do a math.floor or a math.floor + 1 respectively or something? |
| 01:39.14 | Iriel | round is supposed to turn 0.5 to 1, conventionally |
| 01:39.16 | Iriel | and it doesn't |
| 01:39.18 | Iriel | for a start |
| 01:39.32 | Legorol | right |
| 01:39.33 | AnduinLothar | that soudns borken |
| 01:39.53 | Legorol | need to change > to >= then? |
| 01:40.13 | Iriel | well, you could probably just do |
| 01:40.19 | Iriel | return math.floor(x+0.5) |
| 01:40.23 | Iriel | and be done with it |
| 01:40.26 | Iriel | it'll be close enough 8-) |
| 01:40.27 | Cair | *whistles innocently* you don't see me ... |
| 01:40.35 | Legorol | nope, i don't.. |
| 01:40.35 | nomad_wanderer | Well, do you have pants? |
| 01:40.40 | Gryphen | whoa where did Cair go? |
| 01:40.46 | Legorol | Cair has no addons on |
| 01:40.49 | Cair | ~legorol |
| 01:40.50 | purl | Someone claimed that Legorol doesn't stop talking to himself |
| 01:41.00 | AnduinLothar | i'd see her if she wasn't wearing any pants.. |
| 01:41.01 | Cair | ~legorol |
| 01:41.02 | purl | Someone claimed that Legorol doesn't stop talking to himself |
| 01:41.08 | AnduinLothar | so she must be wearing pants |
| 01:41.14 | Cair | ~legorol |
| 01:41.15 | purl | I'm sure I can get Iriel in the mood again some other time. ;) |
| 01:41.25 | Legorol | whoa |
| 01:41.31 | Cair | ~anduinlothar |
| 01:41.32 | purl | Nah, he's hot, suck him dry. |
| 01:41.47 | Cair | lalala |
| 01:41.52 | Legorol | that sequence was NSFW! |
| 01:41.56 | Legorol | obey thy own rulez |
| 01:42.01 | nomad_wanderer | YEAH... GET HER |
| 01:42.32 | Legorol | Iriel, anything else? |
| 01:42.37 | nomad_wanderer | "That was your plan? Get her?"... |
| 01:42.42 | Legorol | NSFW: since i'm supposed to suck you dry |
| 01:43.10 | Iriel | Legorol : Well, there were changes in string.. but you said not to go there |
| 01:43.11 | Legorol | hm, actually, about round |
| 01:43.27 | Legorol | how does the "conventional" round behave for negative numbers |
| 01:43.34 | Legorol | -1.3 becomes -1 or -2? |
| 01:43.39 | Legorol | i mean |
| 01:43.55 | Legorol | -1.7 |
| 01:43.55 | Legorol | yeah |
| 01:43.58 | Legorol | your formula doesn't work, i think |
| 01:44.07 | Legorol | if you take (-1.7+0.5) and floor it, you don't get -2 |
| 01:44.10 | Cair | *casts frost trap* *hits AoC* *escapes all attempts to "get her"* |
| 01:44.13 | Iriel | -1.3 is -1 |
| 01:44.19 | Legorol | yeah but -1.7 should be -2 |
| 01:44.20 | Iriel | the only place that mine breaks is -0.5 |
| 01:44.29 | Legorol | oh hum |
| 01:44.32 | Legorol | still works i guess |
| 01:44.32 | Iriel | > return math.floor(-1.7+0.5) |
| 01:44.35 | Iriel | -2 |
| 01:44.40 | Legorol | true |
| 01:44.44 | Legorol | so what about -0.5 |
| 01:44.50 | Legorol | should that round to -1 or 0 |
| 01:45.02 | nomad_wanderer | Sorry watch ghostbusters on dvd.. Got Ghostbusters 1 and 2 box set for 12.00... very strange. |
| 01:45.03 | Legorol | it should be -1, shouldn't it? |
| 01:45.14 | Iriel | if (x < 0) then return math.ceil(x-0.5) else return math.floor(x+0.5) end |
| 01:45.15 | Tekkub | hrm.... |
| 01:45.18 | Iriel | enjoy |
| 01:45.26 | nomad_wanderer | editbox |
| 01:45.29 | nomad_wanderer | oops |
| 01:45.32 | Tekkub | -x.5 is debatable |
| 01:45.42 | Iriel | Not really |
| 01:45.49 | Tekkub | it could "go either way" |
| 01:45.51 | Legorol | what's the mathematician's definiton |
| 01:45.54 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Bela|DrakaHorde (n=Beladona@115-60.124-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 01:45.58 | Gryphen | round up |
| 01:45.59 | Iriel | the manual page for the IEEE standard is pretty specific |
| 01:46.05 | Legorol | and what does that one say? |
| 01:46.10 | Legorol | -0.5 should be -1? |
| 01:46.11 | Tekkub | which way is up in negative space? |
| 01:46.15 | Iriel | Halfway rounds AWAY from zero |
| 01:46.20 | Legorol | ok |
| 01:46.36 | Iriel | which is what my one line with if above does |
| 01:46.43 | Tekkub | ah, so "up" is absolute |
| 01:47.03 | Tekkub | so isolate the sign and round the value |
| 01:47.06 | Legorol | ok, done |
| 01:47.10 | Iriel | Essentially, yes.. probably better named as 'out' than 'up' 8-) |
| 01:47.38 | Iriel | rgbaFrmHex should probably localize Sea.math.intFromHex since it uses it 3 or 4 times |
| 01:47.50 | Iriel | and string.sub if you're feeling flashy |
| 01:48.09 | AnduinLothar | Q: is it really better to use a non regex strfind and then strsub the text between beginning and end results? wouldn't mstart, mend, value = sfind(variableName, '(.*).', mend); be better? |
| 01:48.22 | nomad_wanderer | Okay.. in a UI XML Name attribute, I can use $parent to inherit the parent's name in the current element name. Can I use $parent in a xml widget reference? Like for :ClearFocus()? Or do I have to fully qualify the name? |
| 01:48.28 | Iriel | and you could divide by 255 inline on each expression to avoid several lines of code, and a redundant dvision |
| 01:48.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron (n=Ktron@student2a-64.unh.edu) |
| 01:48.38 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : .* . is never right |
| 01:48.43 | Legorol | done |
| 01:48.54 | Tekkub | .* is painful |
| 01:48.55 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : You need '^(.-)%.' at the very least |
| 01:49.00 | Tekkub | be as specific as you can |
| 01:49.05 | Legorol | strsub is defined already, right? |
| 01:49.11 | Legorol | i will just stick with that i think |
| 01:49.21 | Iriel | legorol But thatr's a global |
| 01:49.23 | AnduinLothar | ok, but wouldn't the regex be faster? |
| 01:49.26 | Tekkub | I use the string.find stuff.... |
| 01:49.28 | Iriel | the point is to avoid callin getglobal on the same symbol 4 times |
| 01:49.38 | Tekkub | dunno why we even have strsub really... |
| 01:49.42 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : For the simple case, no |
| 01:49.54 | Iriel | You have strsub because older version of lua didn't use namespaces for string and table |
| 01:50.02 | Legorol | right |
| 01:50.04 | Iriel | those are defined in compat.lua - named for an obviousish reason |
| 01:50.09 | Legorol | ok, then i will local it |
| 01:50.11 | Tekkub | ahso |
| 01:50.15 | Legorol | compat.lua is gone now btw |
| 01:50.18 | Legorol | it seems to be internal to WoW |
| 01:50.24 | Tekkub | I'll stick with string. ^^ |
| 01:50.24 | Iriel | it's "gone" but it's still there, yeah |
| 01:50.36 | Iriel | Yes, string.XX is the 'right' way to do it |
| 01:50.53 | Ktron | adblock wowi's flashes ftw! heh :) |
| 01:50.55 | Iriel | but if you're going to call it 1000 times do local stringfind = string.find; or something like that first |
| 01:51.03 | Tekkub | well I should stay I'll stick with using stirng. and correcting my typos... |
| 01:51.22 | Iriel | hey, did you note that rgbaFromhex breaks if the string doesn't have an alpha |
| 01:51.42 | Legorol | huh? |
| 01:51.53 | Legorol | only if the string is greater in length than 6 |
| 01:51.56 | Iriel | because they forgot to change the offsets in the red, green, and blue statements |
| 01:51.59 | AnduinLothar | isn't ^ the beginnign of the str? |
| 01:52.08 | Iriel | Yes AnduinLothar |
| 01:52.11 | Legorol | yeah yo uare right, Iriel |
| 01:52.13 | Legorol | ok i will fix that |
| 01:52.59 | Iriel | I'm almost certain that intFromHex would be faster with a lookup table |
| 01:53.23 | Legorol | hm, i have a nagging suspicion that if i fixed intfromhex now, it might break a bunch of things :D |
| 01:53.40 | Iriel | {["0"] = 0, ["1"]=1",...,["A"] = 10,...,["a"]=10,...} |
| 01:53.49 | Iriel | I doubt it |
| 01:54.07 | Legorol | ok so i changed it to what i presume is the intended behaviour: |
| 01:54.09 | Iriel | I bet it's always called with 8 char strings atthe moment |
| 01:54.17 | Legorol | if you pass "AARRGGBB" it does a, r, g, b |
| 01:54.23 | Legorol | if you pass "RRGGBB" then it does 1, r, g, b |
| 01:54.24 | Iriel | the 'exception' case that was so carefully commented for, wasn't actually used. |
| 01:54.37 | Legorol | i will check to be sure |
| 01:54.42 | Iriel | I agree with that as the 'intended' result tho |
| 01:54.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (n=the_real@62.61.134.59.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 01:55.20 | Legorol | ok i localed the Sea call and the string.sub, and removed the unnecesary /255 lines |
| 01:56.17 | Legorol | hm, there is somethign very worrying here |
| 01:56.18 | Iriel | I'll pastebin intFromHex in a moment |
| 01:56.33 | Legorol | Sea.string.stringToColor claims: |
| 01:56.33 | Legorol | -- stringToColor(String colorCode) |
| 01:56.33 | Legorol | -- |
| 01:56.34 | Legorol | --Converts a Blizzard color code to a table |
| 01:56.42 | Legorol | what's a "Blizzard color code"? |
| 01:56.48 | Legorol | what's worrying is that it has: |
| 01:56.48 | Legorol | local red, blue, green, alpha = Sea.math.rgbaFromHex( colorCode ); |
| 01:56.58 | Iriel | they're the things that appear after a |c |
| 01:57.01 | Legorol | the green and blue are the wrong way around, is that on purpose? |
| 01:57.04 | Iriel | namely r,g,b,a |
| 01:57.14 | Iriel | I think |
| 01:57.16 | AnduinLothar | lol |
| 01:57.23 | Iriel | though now you're making me question my memory on it |
| 01:57.38 | AnduinLothar | rgb is standard |
| 01:57.39 | Legorol | i am worried about the order of the entries in the color code |
| 01:57.47 | Legorol | and the order of the alpha |
| 01:57.49 | Iriel | it is ARGB |
| 01:57.57 | AnduinLothar | yes, color code is |
| 01:57.59 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:58.24 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, since you are changing Sea.string, could you change that line in your local copy? |
| 01:58.32 | Legorol | line 393 in SVN version |
| 01:58.33 | AnduinLothar | what to what |
| 01:58.38 | Legorol | local red, blue, green, alpha = Sea.math.rgbaFromHex( colorCode ); |
| 01:58.40 | Legorol | change it to |
| 01:58.50 | Legorol | local alpha, red, green, blue = Sea.math.rgbaFromHex( colorCode ); |
| 01:58.58 | Legorol | if i understand correctly what this function is supposed to do |
| 01:59.14 | Legorol | ugh! |
| 01:59.23 | Legorol | stringTocolor is so horribly broken |
| 01:59.32 | AnduinLothar | that math func returns: return red, green, blue, alpha; |
| 01:59.34 | Legorol | it's dividing the results by 255 ... even though rgbaFromHex already did that |
| 01:59.41 | Iriel | I suspect it's not used then |
| 01:59.50 | Legorol | AnduinLothar: ok then change to that order |
| 01:59.54 | Legorol | actually |
| 02:00.00 | Legorol | no change to that order |
| 02:00.11 | Legorol | and rgbaFromHex is already dividng by 255 |
| 02:00.20 | AnduinLothar | lol, yes it is |
| 02:00.39 | AnduinLothar | what uses rgbaFromHex then? |
| 02:01.28 | Legorol | only stringtocolor |
| 02:01.33 | Legorol | and nothing uses stringtocolor :D |
| 02:01.34 | Gryphen | nothing that i can see |
| 02:01.38 | AnduinLothar | k |
| 02:01.44 | Gryphen | outside sea anyway |
| 02:01.52 | Legorol | nothing in whole Cosmos uses either funcs |
| 02:02.19 | Legorol | ok Iriel thanks for your help! |
| 02:02.21 | AnduinLothar | sounds useful |
| 02:02.51 | AnduinLothar | howbout: |
| 02:02.52 | AnduinLothar | stringToColor = function ( colorCode ) |
| 02:02.52 | AnduinLothar | local red, green, blue, alpha = Sea.math.rgbaFromHex( colorCode ); |
| 02:02.52 | AnduinLothar | if ( not alpha ) then alpha = 255 end; |
| 02:02.52 | AnduinLothar | return { r = red; g = green; b = blue; a = alpha; opacity = alpha }; |
| 02:02.52 | AnduinLothar | end; |
| 02:03.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Bela|DrakaHorde (n=Beladona@115-60.124-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 02:03.41 | Legorol | even the "if (not alpha)" line is superfluous, |
| 02:03.46 | Legorol | rgbafromhex always returns an alpha |
| 02:03.48 | Iriel | Legorol : http://pastebin.com/453443 |
| 02:03.59 | *** mode/#WoWI-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 02:04.14 | Iriel | There's a vastly cleaner intFromHex |
| 02:05.01 | AnduinLothar | my sea.strign changes are minimal so far leg, just commit the changes |
| 02:05.17 | Iriel | Ooh, are we allowed to go into Sea.string? |
| 02:05.23 | Iriel | Cool, let me open that one up |
| 02:05.24 | AnduinLothar | knock yourself out |
| 02:05.25 | Gryphen | hehe |
| 02:05.47 | Gryphen | go into whatever as long as it makes things better :p |
| 02:06.56 | Legorol | Iriel, looks good |
| 02:07.10 | Legorol | i have to move the table elsewhere, because intFromHex is defined inside the Sea.string table |
| 02:07.20 | Legorol | so i will make a local ref to it |
| 02:07.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron|afk (n=Ktron@student2a-64.unh.edu) |
| 02:08.05 | Iriel | Oh, yeah |
| 02:08.18 | Iriel | make it a local tho |
| 02:08.23 | Iriel | file local |
| 02:08.27 | Iriel | referenced from the function |
| 02:08.38 | Iriel | DONT make it a Sea.math member |
| 02:09.18 | AnduinLothar | well, there's no poitn for u to touch Sea.util since i've rewritten 90% of it. |
| 02:09.43 | Iriel | http://pastebin.com/453446 |
| 02:09.49 | Iriel | There's colorToString |
| 02:09.57 | Legorol | Iriel, what's wrong with making it a Sea.math member? |
| 02:10.03 | Legorol | i can make a local ref to it in the function |
| 02:10.07 | AnduinLothar | i've also been modifying sea.table |
| 02:10.14 | Iriel | I dont want anyone fiddling with it |
| 02:10.19 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, shall i do the stringTocolor changes then |
| 02:10.20 | Iriel | consider the table 'code' and not 'data' |
| 02:10.26 | AnduinLothar | ya |
| 02:10.36 | Legorol | but people can fiddle with the function anyway.. so what's the harm |
| 02:10.43 | Iriel | No, they can't |
| 02:10.47 | Iriel | tehy can REPLACE the function |
| 02:10.49 | Legorol | yeah |
| 02:10.53 | Iriel | they cannot EDIT the function |
| 02:11.05 | Legorol | just cause i make the table file local, doens't mean anything in terms of security |
| 02:11.11 | Iriel | yes it does |
| 02:11.15 | Legorol | anyone can replace the function with something that's identical but refers to another table |
| 02:11.15 | Iriel | it's not visible at runtime |
| 02:11.21 | Iriel | to anything but the function |
| 02:11.21 | Iriel | true |
| 02:11.30 | Iriel | but they can't do that ACCIDENTLY while thinking they're being clever |
| 02:11.35 | Iriel | It's just personal preference |
| 02:11.55 | Iriel | I prefer making tables which have no business being edited AT ALL inaccessible |
| 02:11.56 | Legorol | ok well for code clarity i'd like to have the table right next to the function |
| 02:12.01 | Legorol | which i can't do if it's file local |
| 02:12.13 | Iriel | ok, then make it a member and do a local ref |
| 02:12.19 | Legorol | which is what i did |
| 02:12.32 | Iriel | It's your addon afterall 8-) |
| 02:12.38 | Legorol | i appreciate your point about the additonal protection |
| 02:12.48 | Legorol | i think that in this case code clarity wins over the need for security |
| 02:12.51 | Iriel | Did you get colorToString ? |
| 02:13.10 | Legorol | looking at it.. |
| 02:13.20 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, i will make the stringToColor changes then |
| 02:14.19 | Iriel | Here's a really quick one |
| 02:14.23 | Iriel | toInt = tonumber; |
| 02:15.17 | Legorol | so ehm, Blizz color codes are ARGB, or RGBA? |
| 02:15.22 | Iriel | ARGB |
| 02:15.23 | Legorol | ok |
| 02:15.35 | Iriel | Amusingly all of the COMMENTS in these files say AARRGGBB |
| 02:15.40 | Iriel | It's just the code that thinks otherwise |
| 02:16.09 | Legorol | what does the "f" field of format do? |
| 02:16.34 | Legorol | shouldn't those be "x" fields? |
| 02:16.52 | Iriel | Oh, yes, sorry |
| 02:16.55 | Iriel | typo |
| 02:17.02 | Legorol | 6 times? :-p |
| 02:17.11 | Legorol | copy/paste ftw for bug replication |
| 02:17.11 | Iriel | Cut and paste 8-) |
| 02:17.16 | Gryphen | i typo, 5 cut/paste |
| 02:17.17 | Gryphen | lol |
| 02:17.26 | Gryphen | 1 |
| 02:17.27 | Iriel | I'll note I got it right the first time I pointed itout in this channel |
| 02:17.28 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 02:17.37 | AnduinLothar | I may be crazy... tell me what you think: http://wow.pastebin.com/453451 |
| 02:17.46 | Iriel | http://pastebin.com/453452 |
| 02:17.50 | Iriel | There's byteSum |
| 02:17.55 | Iriel | Did you get toInt, by the way? |
| 02:18.03 | Legorol | ok slow down with the pastebins |
| 02:18.09 | Legorol | i am still on colortostring |
| 02:18.43 | AnduinLothar | oops, duplicate size |
| 02:19.09 | AnduinLothar | http://wow.pastebin.com/453455 |
| 02:19.21 | Legorol | Iriel, i want to add a comment acknowledging your contributions, want to include an email addy? |
| 02:19.35 | Iriel | Sure iriel@vigilance-committee.org |
| 02:20.23 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : You have a bug |
| 02:20.50 | clad|rag | lol |
| 02:20.55 | Iriel | Line 65 |
| 02:21.21 | Iriel | It should be return value[strsub(variableName, mStart, size)] |
| 02:21.22 | AnduinLothar | 'end' ? |
| 02:21.23 | Iriel | not return value; |
| 02:21.39 | Iriel | you removed a line, so 64 in yours |
| 02:21.54 | Legorol | Iriel, toInt =/= tonumber in semantics, I think |
| 02:22.03 | Iriel | Well, true |
| 02:22.04 | Tekkub | want a good laugh anyone? |
| 02:22.12 | Iriel | toInt will horribly mangle any string that's not actually an integer |
| 02:22.13 | Cair | sure tek |
| 02:22.13 | AnduinLothar | k |
| 02:22.14 | Legorol | although only if someone calls it with a non-int string contents |
| 02:22.15 | Tekkub | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=276548&p=1&tmp=1#post276548 |
| 02:22.22 | Tekkub | he's "hardcore" |
| 02:22.36 | Iriel | But I dont think that counts as 'defined behavior' |
| 02:22.52 | Legorol | yeah |
| 02:22.54 | Legorol | ok i'm changing it |
| 02:23.28 | AnduinLothar | http://wow.pastebin.com/453460 |
| 02:23.29 | Iriel | If you want to be paranoid you could do |
| 02:23.38 | AnduinLothar | do i need a type "table" check somewhere? |
| 02:23.51 | Iriel | toInt = function(s) return tonumber(string.gsub(s,"[^0-9]","")) end |
| 02:23.52 | Iriel | or whatever |
| 02:24.02 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : Did you have one before? |
| 02:24.11 | AnduinLothar | ya |
| 02:24.19 | AnduinLothar | for the sub tables |
| 02:24.19 | Iriel | What did it do? |
| 02:24.30 | Iriel | Did you return nil instead of resulting an a useful error? |
| 02:24.37 | AnduinLothar | of course |
| 02:24.38 | Iriel | (slight sarcasm intended) |
| 02:24.42 | Legorol | Iriel, that wouldn't quite make sense either, as it would turn say "45.289" into 45289 |
| 02:24.52 | Legorol | if anyone's calling it with non-int string, i'd rather it just did a tonumber on it |
| 02:24.59 | Legorol | so i am changing it to tonumber straight |
| 02:25.37 | Iriel | Better than 448289 |
| 02:25.40 | Iriel | which is what it does now? |
| 02:26.13 | AnduinLothar | workign is better than not working, yes |
| 02:26.57 | Legorol | Iriel, you can do better with the byteSum |
| 02:27.22 | Iriel | Legorol : I can ? |
| 02:27.32 | Iriel | oh, yeah |
| 02:27.33 | Iriel | locals |
| 02:27.33 | Legorol | look at http://pastebin.com/453463 |
| 02:27.36 | Iriel | I forgot those |
| 02:27.38 | Legorol | not just the locals |
| 02:27.43 | Legorol | i forgot that too |
| 02:27.57 | Legorol | btw, can we use wow.pastebin.com instead? |
| 02:28.17 | Iriel | oh, yeah, that['s much better |
| 02:28.20 | Iriel | Yeah, I meant to |
| 02:28.27 | Iriel | but I started from someone else's code |
| 02:28.48 | Malivil | what's the difference? |
| 02:28.59 | Legorol | between what and what, Malivil? |
| 02:29.10 | Iriel | the recent post list is easier to find stuff on |
| 02:29.10 | Malivil | wow.pastebin.com and pastebin.com |
| 02:29.16 | Malivil | ok, cool |
| 02:29.18 | Gryphen | recent posts arent flooded off |
| 02:29.28 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Cera (i=user@c-69-181-62-117.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:29.32 | Malivil | HA |
| 02:29.37 | Malivil | 3 instances of my code are still up there |
| 02:29.43 | Malivil | Along with futrtrubl's fix |
| 02:30.19 | Malivil | I figured out something i need to add |
| 02:30.19 | Legorol | Iriel, final form of byteSum: http://wow.pastebin.com/453464 |
| 02:30.43 | Iriel | Looks good. |
| 02:30.55 | Legorol | all right, i'm afraid i got to go now |
| 02:30.55 | Malivil | What is all this you guys are doing? |
| 02:31.00 | Legorol | Iriel is revamping sea |
| 02:31.04 | Malivil | Oh, cool |
| 02:31.08 | Legorol | he has succumbed to the Cosmos plague |
| 02:31.09 | Legorol | ;-) |
| 02:31.14 | Malivil | Tell me when all the changes are released |
| 02:31.26 | Malivil | Wait... do i even use sea anymore |
| 02:31.39 | Legorol | they are just performance changes |
| 02:31.41 | Malivil | Yea i do |
| 02:31.47 | Legorol | no additional functionality (in principle) |
| 02:31.54 | Malivil | I use Sea and MCom |
| 02:31.59 | Malivil | Well performance is very important |
| 02:32.03 | Legorol | as soon as i test to make sure it's not horribly broken in any obvious way, i commit it |
| 02:32.09 | Malivil | Ok, cool |
| 02:32.13 | Legorol | after which it takes about an hour, then it will appear in the latest Cosmos download |
| 02:32.20 | Malivil | Can we get it seperate? |
| 02:32.27 | Gryphen | depends when you commit :D |
| 02:32.31 | Gryphen | could be 5 minuts |
| 02:32.34 | Gryphen | minutes* |
| 02:32.53 | Malivil | Can't say i actually use Cosmos anymore =-/ |
| 02:32.55 | AnduinLothar | only if i upload it and i dont plan on updating non-cosmos sea until i get my SeaHooks code into it |
| 02:32.57 | Malivil | I use parts of it |
| 02:33.13 | Malivil | Alright AnduinLothar |
| 02:33.15 | Gryphen | you can download cosmos core and use the Sea parts of it :p |
| 02:33.19 | Legorol | Maldivia, you can get it out of the Cosmos core package |
| 02:33.22 | Malivil | That's true |
| 02:33.25 | Legorol | which only has the libs essentially |
| 02:33.27 | Malivil | wrong name =-P |
| 02:33.33 | Maldivia | :) |
| 02:33.36 | Malivil | haha |
| 02:33.43 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, you changed Sea.lua itself? |
| 02:33.48 | Legorol | i need to up the version num |
| 02:34.01 | AnduinLothar | ya, dont worry about it. i'll difference |
| 02:34.04 | Legorol | k |
| 02:34.19 | AnduinLothar | added the sub versioning to handle embedable copies |
| 02:34.56 | AnduinLothar | so a newer Sea will correctly preempt an outdated SeaHooks |
| 02:35.15 | Legorol | sub versioning? |
| 02:35.22 | AnduinLothar | u dont wanna know |
| 02:35.28 | Gryphen | hehe |
| 02:35.28 | Legorol | well anyways i will just up the count when i commit, and you can do your stuff when you commit |
| 02:35.36 | AnduinLothar | k |
| 02:36.03 | Cair | so you guys are saying you need to be committed? |
| 02:36.08 | AnduinLothar | i do |
| 02:36.41 | AnduinLothar | how's this look, guys: http://wow.pastebin.com/453475 |
| 02:36.45 | Legorol | Cair: so do i |
| 02:37.41 | Iriel | Legorol : Here's fromTime: http://wow.pastebin.com/453478 |
| 02:38.27 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : I'd move the type check on value to go right after the 'repeat' keyword |
| 02:38.36 | Iriel | so you only have one copy of it |
| 02:39.21 | AnduinLothar | so chop out that if statement and move it all? |
| 02:39.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Stylp1 (n=Stylpe@98.84-48-162.nextgentel.com) |
| 02:39.40 | Iriel | Move lines 47-50 to be at line 57 |
| 02:39.46 | AnduinLothar | could that be better implimented with a while loop? |
| 02:39.55 | Iriel | then remove lines 61-64 |
| 02:40.08 | Iriel | while true would likely be cleaner |
| 02:40.15 | Iriel | since the loop shouldn't actually exit by itself |
| 02:40.26 | Legorol | Iriel, i will quickly put in fromtime but that's last one please, i really ahve to go ;-) |
| 02:40.29 | Iriel | well, I guess it would if you did "Something." as the name |
| 02:40.30 | AnduinLothar | only diffin moving that is u execute mstart = mend + 1; when u dotn need to |
| 02:40.32 | Iriel | But that's a bug |
| 02:40.37 | Iriel | Legorol : Yes, that's the last one/ |
| 02:40.59 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : I think you can take that risk 8-) |
| 02:41.21 | AnduinLothar | so ur opting for cleaner rather than more optimized? |
| 02:42.09 | Iriel | for something which is essentially an 'error condition' |
| 02:42.09 | Iriel | yes |
| 02:42.22 | AnduinLothar | k |
| 02:42.34 | Iriel | Actually |
| 02:42.42 | Iriel | You could move the mstart = mend + 1 as well |
| 02:42.44 | Iriel | and remove line 65 |
| 02:42.47 | AnduinLothar | still thinkign a while loop would eb prettier |
| 02:42.53 | Iriel | And yes, while true |
| 02:43.16 | AnduinLothar | and add the mstart >= size to an if statement? |
| 02:43.29 | AnduinLothar | in reverse |
| 02:43.54 | Iriel | actually, you have a slight bug |
| 02:43.58 | Iriel | let me edit the pastebin |
| 02:44.06 | AnduinLothar | that's what i've been suggesting.. |
| 02:44.24 | Legorol | Iriel, i looked at the fromtime and i have a question: |
| 02:44.29 | Iriel | Legorol ; yes? |
| 02:44.37 | Legorol | isn't it possible to do zero-padding with an appropriately chosen format field? |
| 02:44.40 | Iriel | no |
| 02:44.44 | Legorol | instead of the spfx thing |
| 02:44.44 | Iriel | I spent 10 minutes trying |
| 02:44.48 | Iriel | and couldn't figure it out |
| 02:45.01 | Legorol | hmmm i take that as a challenge now ;-) |
| 02:45.12 | Iriel | if you figure it out let me know |
| 02:47.22 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : Actually, a couple of bugs, almost done pastebinning |
| 02:48.45 | AnduinLothar | next project: http://wow.pastebin.com/453492 |
| 02:48.54 | AnduinLothar | but i have work so i need to go |
| 02:49.34 | Iriel | http://wow.pastebin.com/453495 |
| 02:49.38 | Iriel | There you go |
| 02:49.47 | AnduinLothar | thx |
| 02:50.18 | Iriel | string.find doesn't return what you thought it returned |
| 02:50.27 | AnduinLothar | u didn't define |
| 02:50.29 | AnduinLothar | match |
| 02:50.32 | Iriel | I did |
| 02:50.34 | Iriel | line 44 |
| 02:50.38 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 02:50.53 | AnduinLothar | mm, ok |
| 02:50.58 | AnduinLothar | lol, my bad |
| 02:51.06 | Legorol | Iriel, ok it's possible to do with string format, but it needs the format string to be created dynamically using string concat |
| 02:51.17 | Legorol | because the width/precision etc. needs to be calculated |
| 02:51.19 | Iriel | Legorol : I still dont believe you |
| 02:51.24 | Legorol | ok try this: |
| 02:51.28 | Legorol | print(string.format("%06.3f", 2.354)) |
| 02:51.29 | Iriel | Unless you mean dynamically based on the VALUE |
| 02:51.41 | Legorol | no, dynamically based on the desired precision |
| 02:51.45 | Iriel | in which case I do believe you but it defeats the whole purpose |
| 02:52.05 | Legorol | the 6 and 3 there has to be calculated from "decimalplaces" |
| 02:52.16 | Legorol | i couldn't see a way around that |
| 02:52.29 | Iriel | that'd give divergent results from the original |
| 02:52.34 | Iriel | which i was trying to avoid |
| 02:52.37 | Legorol | ? |
| 02:52.42 | Legorol | ok then i missed something |
| 02:53.10 | Legorol | i thought the original 0-pads the seconds integer part if necessary, |
| 02:53.10 | Iriel | if the original value is 2 seconds, then you get 2 |
| 02:53.17 | Legorol | don't you get 02? |
| 02:53.22 | Iriel | sorry, you get 00:02 |
| 02:53.28 | Legorol | yeah |
| 02:53.30 | Iriel | no matter WHAT decimal places is set to |
| 02:53.34 | Legorol | yes |
| 02:53.46 | Iriel | if you use string.format that way, with 3 decimal places you'd get |
| 02:53.49 | Iriel | 00:02.000 |
| 02:53.57 | Legorol | the format string entry should be: "%0X.Yf", where X=Y+3 and Y = decimalplaces |
| 02:54.08 | Legorol | ehm.. |
| 02:54.16 | Iriel | > return string.format("%06.3f", 2) |
| 02:54.18 | Iriel | 02.000 |
| 02:54.27 | Legorol | you are right |
| 02:54.40 | Iriel | I tested it before questioning you 8-) |
| 02:54.41 | Legorol | k back to thinking |
| 02:54.58 | Iriel | That was the problem I ran into |
| 02:55.04 | Iriel | zero padding the first part without affecting the second |
| 02:55.21 | Iriel | The challenge though, is to do it with a non-dynamic format string |
| 02:55.31 | groll | meh! some scriptkiddie hacked our guild website :S |
| 02:55.34 | Iriel | because a dynamic format string is worse than my workaround |
| 02:56.43 | zeeg | poor groll |
| 02:56.43 | zeeg | :( |
| 02:57.08 | Depherios | G'night |
| 02:57.22 | futrtrubl | what did he do? |
| 02:57.41 | Malivil | oo, tha sucks |
| 02:57.47 | Gryphen | phpbb? |
| 02:57.48 | Gryphen | heh |
| 02:57.57 | groll | zeeg yes very :P |
| 02:57.59 | Cair | groll? ugh |
| 02:58.11 | Legorol | what's the most efficient way of getting the fractional part of a float? |
| 02:58.12 | groll | and well phpbb kinda |
| 02:58.32 | groll | but i think he just removed everything kinda so i'm just uploading |
| 02:59.10 | zeeg | ouch |
| 02:59.22 | Legorol | Iriel, i think by replacing the truncation code (which relies on pow and divides) by something that splits into integer/fractional part first then does something clever might improve performance as well as it resolves this issue with the formatting |
| 03:03.11 | Depherios | ...."something clever"? |
| 03:03.19 | Depherios | lol |
| 03:03.24 | Malivil | *yawn* |
| 03:03.27 | Malivil | Sleep for me |
| 03:03.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaelten (n=Kaelten@pcp0010773238pcs.mobilh01.al.comcast.net) |
| 03:03.37 | Depherios | G'night |
| 03:03.39 | *** mode/#WoWI-lounge [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 03:04.11 | Depherios | btw, I'm laughing at something clever because it ALL sounds "clever" to me |
| 03:04.57 | nomad_wanderer | K.. how does the xml inheritance work? does the specific over ride the inherited? I would think it does.. right/ |
| 03:05.06 | Depherios | ... Draka is NEW right... how am I "In Queue" |
| 03:05.39 | Kaelten | nomad: yes, to my knowledge. |
| 03:05.48 | Depherios | Nomad: every time I've done it, yes... but I don't know the specifics |
| 03:06.38 | Legorol | Ok, i have an issue with string.format |
| 03:06.58 | Legorol | the printf spec i am looking at says that "%.2d" should be blank padding the number, yet in Lua it seems to 0-pad |
| 03:07.03 | nomad_wanderer | Thanks |
| 03:08.56 | Iriel | You're using d and not f |
| 03:09.26 | Iriel | $ printf '%.2d' 2 |
| 03:09.29 | Iriel | 02 |
| 03:09.41 | Iriel | $ printf '%2d' 2 |
| 03:09.43 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:11.46 | Iriel | nomad_wanderer : yes, that's pretty much how it works. |
| 03:11.59 | nomad_wanderer | Cool. thats what I was hoping. It makes sense that way. |
| 03:12.01 | Legorol | .precision: for d, i, o, u, x, X types: precision specifies the minimum number of decimal digits to be printed. If the value to be printed is shorter than this number the result is padded with blanks. The value is never truncated even if the result is larger.(if nothing specified default is 1). |
| 03:12.20 | zespri | notice that there is no f among them |
| 03:12.30 | Legorol | so printf("%.2d", 2) should be " 2" |
| 03:12.35 | Iriel | Well, no |
| 03:12.42 | Iriel | that's describing '%2d' not '%.2d' |
| 03:12.45 | Iriel | which is different |
| 03:12.53 | Legorol | wait |
| 03:13.06 | Legorol | i had a look at what the number following the dot in the format string means |
| 03:13.13 | Legorol | that's the bit that's called "precision", correct? |
| 03:13.32 | Legorol | for a "d" type field, the meaning of precision is as above. should be blank paddig |
| 03:14.16 | Legorol | the number before the dot in the format string is called "width" |
| 03:14.21 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:14.23 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:14.28 | Iriel | notice the word 'digits' |
| 03:14.50 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:14.50 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:14.51 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:14.51 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:14.51 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:14.51 | Legorol | yes |
| 03:14.51 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:14.54 | Iriel | There's the whole thing |
| 03:15.01 | Iriel | (Sorrt for the spam folks) |
| 03:15.07 | Iriel | (though none of you are talking anyway) |
| 03:15.09 | Legorol | ok, that's a different defintion then |
| 03:15.14 | Legorol | the page i was looking at is wrong then |
| 03:19.06 | Legorol | Iriel, in that case what's the difference between "%02d" and "%.2d"? seems to me that nothing |
| 03:19.32 | Iriel | Nothing, but you CAn do things like |
| 03:19.34 | Iriel | $ printf '%5.2d' 2 |
| 03:19.36 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:19.39 | Iriel | Which is why both exist |
| 03:19.43 | Legorol | right |
| 03:20.21 | Iriel | I would think that doing a dynamic format string |
| 03:20.27 | Iriel | And removing that whole pow hack |
| 03:20.33 | Iriel | would be the 'right' solution to this problem |
| 03:20.39 | Iriel | but sadly it changes the behaviour |
| 03:21.54 | Legorol | i could maintain behaviour.. |
| 03:22.08 | Iriel | but then it'd get messy again |
| 03:22.18 | Legorol | how do i construct a blank-padded, truncated fractional part? |
| 03:22.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=NOYB@rhhe10-109.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 03:22.47 | Legorol | actually, how do i truncate smartly? |
| 03:23.01 | Iriel | I think it's mostly x - math.floor(x) |
| 03:23.18 | Kaelten | to round up you can do math.floor(x + .5) |
| 03:23.23 | Legorol | let's say you have a number you want to truncate the fractional part to 3 decimal places |
| 03:23.42 | Legorol | or round even |
| 03:23.55 | Legorol | bah i am so late already |
| 03:24.04 | Kaelten | easiest ways I've found to round was math.floor(x + .5) and math.floor(x - .5) |
| 03:24.10 | Legorol | i've got to commit the current version and be off |
| 03:24.11 | Legorol | bye |
| 03:24.16 | Iriel | we're not talking about rounting to an integer version Kaelten |
| 03:24.20 | Iriel | but more about fractionalparts |
| 03:24.28 | Kaelten | k |
| 03:24.33 | Iriel | but the method is essentially the same, you multiply, round, and divide |
| 03:24.38 | Kaelten | yep |
| 03:24.44 | Kaelten | did that ins something can't remember what though |
| 03:25.06 | Iriel | but string.format can do the same thing, it just happens to want to zero pad (on the right) |
| 03:25.15 | Iriel | but that's technically the correct representation |
| 03:25.18 | Iriel | so it's hard to fault it |
| 03:25.51 | Kaelten | math.floor( (x*1000) ) / 1000 |
| 03:26.28 | Iriel | string.format("%.3f", x) |
| 03:26.45 | Legorol | that zero-pads :( |
| 03:26.53 | Iriel | though the first results in a number, and the 2nd a string, so depending on what you do with it next... |
| 03:27.02 | Iriel | yeah, btu as I was saying, zero padding is technically correct |
| 03:27.05 | Legorol | the two are not quite the same |
| 03:27.15 | Iriel | 2.000 is the right representation for 2 to 3 decimal places |
| 03:27.22 | Legorol | when you want to print it out to user, aesthetically you don't want 2.000 |
| 03:27.25 | Iriel | since that makes it distinct from 2.00 or 2.0 |
| 03:27.28 | Legorol | hence the fromTime code |
| 03:27.41 | Iriel | Well, I thin you DO want 2.000 butnobody really cared enough to think about it |
| 03:27.50 | Legorol | no i don't think you do |
| 03:28.02 | Legorol | i think the idea is: gimme time with a *maximum* of 3 decimal places |
| 03:28.04 | Iriel | If I see something that says "2 seconds" |
| 03:28.20 | Iriel | then I dont know if that's rounded to anything, what's the 'next value' up from that? |
| 03:28.26 | Iriel | is it 3? 2.1? 2.01? 2.001? |
| 03:28.30 | Legorol | hm, that's a good point |
| 03:28.36 | Iriel | if I see 2.000 then I can be pretty sure it's followed by 2.001 |
| 03:28.50 | Iriel | I studied maths and physics for too long, I know |
| 03:28.53 | Legorol | so if i redefine the semantics to what it actually makes sense, the whole code gets easier.. |
| 03:28.58 | Iriel | yes |
| 03:29.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=malreth@cpe-70-113-94-7.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 03:29.09 | Iriel | that's the dilemma |
| 03:29.12 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 03:29.19 | Legorol | not a dilemma, i will change semantics |
| 03:29.20 | Legorol | just not now |
| 03:29.53 | malreth | Argh! No, you cannot make an aggro meter and your G15 LCD will never work with WoW! |
| 03:30.07 | Legorol | so is a double string concat (to include decimalplaces) preferable to the whole pow/divide business? |
| 03:30.09 | Legorol | i presume it is |
| 03:30.22 | Kaelten | oh to round I think this will work, math.floor( (x *1000) + .5) / 1000 |
| 03:30.23 | zespri | I think it's not the case where we should stick to the old functionality because of compatibility. |
| 03:30.35 | nomad_wanderer | Don't let the forums stress you out :) |
| 03:31.31 | zespri | mostly this function for formating time to display to the end user, so it rarely really matter that the format will be slightly different, and in these rare case it can't be patched up on the 'receiving' side |
| 03:31.40 | Cair | uh oh, what's making you crazy malreth? |
| 03:31.51 | Cair | nm, found it |
| 03:31.53 | malreth | i'm always crazy... |
| 03:31.54 | Kaelten | Cair: did the reinstall fix things? |
| 03:32.07 | Cair | I'll tell you next time I need repair |
| 03:33.36 | zespri | this time wow value is it int or float? |
| 03:33.40 | malreth | Tyndral's response in the Aggro Addon thread is great |
| 03:33.55 | malreth | all numbers in Lua are double-precision floats |
| 03:34.06 | malreth | well, in WoW's implementation of Lua |
| 03:34.55 | malreth | me watches Fellowship of The Ring |
| 03:35.35 | Ktron | purl, malreth lies |
| 03:35.38 | malreth | Legolas has no dead-zone... |
| 03:35.56 | malreth | and he must be MM/Surv spec... somehow |
| 03:37.57 | Iriel | Silly people, we all know Legolas is one of the hero classes |
| 03:37.58 | Ktron | well, he gave up his pet completely, maybe that's a special book you read |
| 03:38.11 | Ktron | ah, that must be it Iriel |
| 03:38.30 | Iriel | He can mount while moving too |
| 03:38.37 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=Matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 03:38.38 | Iriel | and engage in combat while mounted |
| 03:38.49 | nomad_wanderer | How can anyone mount without moving? Oh. nevermind we're talking about wow. |
| 03:38.59 | Cair | *mrrow, hiss, spit* |
| 03:39.11 | nomad_wanderer | ~unfunny |
| 03:39.12 | purl | it has been said that unfunny is a lame attempt (usually by Nomad_Wanderer) at humor. |
| 03:39.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=Matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 03:39.25 | malreth | hehe |
| 03:39.41 | Cair | mal, if you liked Ty's response, check mine, I'm being a real bitch :p |
| 03:40.08 | nomad_wanderer | You do realize we are the Interface forum lynch mob right? |
| 03:40.40 | Cair | no, we are the interface forum regulars, and we get gd sick of the same bullshit due to laziness |
| 03:41.00 | nomad_wanderer | But one of us points out a thread, and we all go jump into the fray, was my point :) |
| 03:41.32 | Ktron | I hope blizzard impliments more hero class-like stuff eventually... like, especially new class names, It'd be cool to be able to identify further, for example, priests who are shadow vs holy spec'd etc |
| 03:41.59 | Iriel | I think blizzard want a full spectrum of talents though |
| 03:42.07 | Iriel | that'd go further towards cookiecuttering |
| 03:42.16 | Iriel | which is boring (even if it is effective) |
| 03:42.33 | Ktron | that's true |
| 03:42.47 | Ktron | so... maybe more parallel talents |
| 03:42.51 | Ktron | that would be okay |
| 03:45.07 | nomad_wanderer | The one thing they are not going to do is make too much diversity. |
| 03:45.28 | nomad_wanderer | As much as people think they want it, it's unattainable. |
| 03:46.03 | Iriel | They can ADD diversity, but they can't actually make players follow it |
| 03:46.19 | nomad_wanderer | You add too much variety, and you lose the ability to balance. |
| 03:46.23 | Iriel | which is kind of sad in a way, there's no real weight to choices |
| 03:46.28 | Iriel | well, I do and dont agree with that |
| 03:46.34 | Iriel | you certainly make 'balance' difficult |
| 03:46.50 | nomad_wanderer | Difficult as in standing on your head and being armless. |
| 03:47.13 | nomad_wanderer | If you are really good at balance you could probably do it.. but not likely. |
| 03:47.24 | Iriel | they could improve the relative merit of the various skills/attributes/scores/whatever |
| 03:47.25 | malreth | That's not funny. My cousin has no arms and has to stand on his head all the time. |
| 03:47.35 | Iriel | to the point where balance is calculable |
| 03:47.40 | Iriel | but that too is difficult |
| 03:47.55 | Iriel | (not 'unattainable' difficult, just 'hard, not likely' difficult) |
| 03:48.11 | nomad_wanderer | A great thing touted about SWG by the player base was the uniqueness. That was also the complaint. Nothing was balanced ever. |
| 03:48.31 | Depherios | Talents are more than enough diversity for me |
| 03:48.32 | nomad_wanderer | They would go balance this bit, and it would cascade to other areas, unbalancing other stuff. |
| 03:48.33 | Iriel | SWG had far greater problems than balance |
| 03:48.41 | Depherios | so long as they work out the talents so you can actually PICK DIFFERENT ONES XD |
| 03:48.56 | Iriel | Talents are fine, but you shouldn't be able to respec more than once every couple of months |
| 03:49.02 | Iriel | no matter how much money you have |
| 03:49.06 | nomad_wanderer | Indeed. But the ability to uniquely configure your character as much as you could in SWG made balance extremely difficult. |
| 03:49.20 | Depherios | don't say that... I'm a priest XD -- I wish I could respec every night |
| 03:49.23 | Iriel | (There should also be a confirmation on selecting one, but that's another story) |
| 03:49.36 | nomad_wanderer | I'm a priest too.. I finally gave up and took shadowspec. |
| 03:49.41 | Depherios | ditto |
| 03:49.41 | Iriel | But if you respec regularly, you've destroyed the whole point of talents |
| 03:50.08 | Iriel | It's supposed to be about hard choices, about character formation |
| 03:52.47 | malreth | well, wow is definitely the most mainstream friendly mmo that i've ever played. |
| 03:53.53 | Iriel | definitely |
| 03:54.29 | zespri | Iriel, look what they did with specs in Guild Wars. You can respec as many times as you want and you can respec to be more effective in certain encounters. And I wouldn't say that it didn't add depth in a sense to the game. It reminds me of magic the gathering - the war of builds where there is no the best build but only the best against certain one |
| 03:54.50 | Iriel | Well guild wars is a very different beast |
| 03:55.00 | zespri | Sure, it's completely different design |
| 03:55.02 | Iriel | for all of it's MMO stylings, it's most defintely something else |
| 03:55.43 | Iriel | And I agree, there are settings in which changing your build to suit a scenario is a great challenge |
| 03:56.00 | Depherios | PvE makes the decision easier |
| 03:56.09 | Iriel | I just dont feel that's what an MMO where you build up a character in an immersive shared world really fits that |
| 03:56.22 | Depherios | my biggest problem is trying to decide between PvE, and PvP... usually |
| 03:56.23 | Iriel | It destroys the idea of character development to a large extent |
| 03:56.43 | Iriel | Yeah, that IS a challenge, and I'm not sure that they got the PvE/PvP balance right in WoW yet |
| 03:56.56 | Iriel | the effectiveness of things varies too much between the two |
| 03:57.20 | Depherios | I wouldn't care about my priest spec, if not for the fact that I want to do instances for gear, so I can kick more butt in PvP.... I want to respec every night |
| 03:57.28 | Depherios | but gear helps a lot with that |
| 03:57.48 | Iriel | See, there SHOULD be a way to get the gear by working just as hard at PvP |
| 03:58.04 | Iriel | There isn't, because that's another hard problem, especially with people who want to game the system |
| 03:58.11 | Depherios | yeah |
| 03:58.12 | Iriel | but that's how, in my opinion anyway, it SHOULD be |
| 03:58.24 | Depherios | I honestly wouldn't care if there were PvP quests |
| 03:58.27 | Tain | I don't know, you get pretty close gear from battlefields. |
| 03:58.38 | Iriel | and I do realize i'm arging an idealistic point, there are plenty of reasons why WoW is the way it is right now |
| 03:59.13 | Depherios | a quest, in which I go raid some human town sounds great to me, I had great fun with the quest in hillsbrad where you have to get to that guy's grave |
| 03:59.25 | Tain | It's difficult, if not impossible, to get a really perfect balance between pve and pvp. |
| 03:59.30 | Depherios | yup |
| 03:59.49 | malreth | do what Eve Online did... have no PvE |
| 03:59.52 | Depherios | Why do you think City of Villains ended up a completely different game, and took them FOREVER to develop XD |
| 04:00.01 | Iriel | But it's not |
| 04:00.04 | Iriel | CoV is CoH |
| 04:00.07 | Iriel | with villain plotlines |
| 04:00.13 | Depherios | yup |
| 04:00.15 | zespri | I wonder what wow will be in a year time. As well I'd like to know how dynamics of the number of playing people. I get a suspicion that it's started to decline. |
| 04:00.20 | Depherios | "a completely different game" |
| 04:00.25 | Iriel | Eve is.. harsh. |
| 04:00.32 | malreth | iriel: very harsh |
| 04:00.34 | pagefault | hahahaha |
| 04:00.37 | pagefault | I love that |
| 04:00.42 | Iriel | I like it, when i'm in the mood for it |
| 04:00.43 | Iriel | but damn |
| 04:00.53 | pagefault | I put som un'goro soil in the auction house for like 2 gold because I was the only one selling it |
| 04:00.56 | Depherios | anybody here ever play Graal? |
| 04:01.01 | pagefault | now everyone has it for at least that amount |
| 04:01.14 | Iriel | greed in action! |
| 04:01.14 | malreth | i eventually decided that it wasn't for me, but the universe they created allows for some really amazing things |
| 04:01.34 | malreth | the backstabbing, the betrayal. |
| 04:01.44 | malreth | the best drama is the drama that players make themselves |
| 04:01.47 | Tain | I singlehandledly created markets on my server for a few differnt things by putting them on the AH for high money |
| 04:01.48 | Iriel | Depherios : Never even heard of it |
| 04:01.54 | Depherios | Graal was old |
| 04:02.01 | zespri | nither did I |
| 04:02.03 | Depherios | massive online ZELDA |
| 04:02.14 | Iriel | Sadly the intensity of the interpersonal stuff in Eve is hurt by (once again) people gaming the system |
| 04:02.22 | Depherios | controlled just like zelda, lol... with PvP |
| 04:02.28 | Iriel | But it's still pretty intense nonetheless |
| 04:02.40 | Iriel | Ive actually never played ANY of the Zelda games |
| 04:02.46 | Depherios | some servers were basically just hack-fest |
| 04:02.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine (n=Guilloti@63.203.120.57) |
| 04:02.54 | Nomad_W|MC | Snes zelda tho |
| 04:02.58 | zespri | I don't know. I got bored of eve in 14 days trial period |
| 04:02.58 | Depherios | yeah |
| 04:02.59 | Tain | At this point I think you have to accept that people are going to try to exploit the system and expect it. And then try to work around it when it does happen. |
| 04:03.04 | Depherios | it was SNES 16bit zelda XD |
| 04:03.09 | zespri | very unfrendly learning curve I'd say |
| 04:03.10 | Guillotine | well. i figured out a replacment trick to check online status of the other faction |
| 04:03.12 | Depherios | you played it Nomad? |
| 04:03.14 | Guillotine | now that whispering doesnt work |
| 04:03.15 | Iriel | I hated eve for 2 days, then went 'Oh.. I get it' |
| 04:03.22 | Nomad_W|MC | I've beaten every Zelda game there is :) |
| 04:03.30 | Nomad_W|MC | even the zelda on the 3do |
| 04:03.30 | Depherios | I never beat 2 |
| 04:03.34 | Depherios | LOL |
| 04:03.41 | Depherios | I don't consider those three zelda games |
| 04:03.56 | malreth | Eve is not a game that you can just solo... You have to have support |
| 04:03.56 | Iriel | What's that Guillotine ? |
| 04:04.03 | Nomad_W|MC | hehehe neither do I, :) |
| 04:04.05 | Guillotine | ./invite |
| 04:04.08 | Depherios | Ever play Graal Nomad? |
| 04:04.21 | malreth | WoW is just 4.5 million people all playing the same single player game together |
| 04:04.25 | Iriel | Discipline and an enhanced sense of self preservation works ok |
| 04:04.26 | Guillotine | it returns "Player not online" if their not online and "Player not part of your alliance" if they are online |
| 04:05.12 | Depherios | I thought /invite returned "cannot find 'whoever'" |
| 04:05.37 | Nomad_W|MC | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:05.37 | Tain | See it's easy to spot the people who haven't been playing MMORPG type games since EverQuest (or before). |
| 04:05.53 | Tain | They're the ones who complain about things that have been the case ever since then. :) |
| 04:05.54 | Depherios | EQ isn't a game |
| 04:05.55 | Depherios | lol |
| 04:05.58 | Depherios | IMHO |
| 04:06.03 | Depherios | it's WORK |
| 04:06.14 | Tain | Any game can be work if you let it. |
| 04:06.18 | Depherios | I never understood for the life of me, why, in god's name anybody would play it |
| 04:06.37 | Depherios | then again, I played Diablo before EQ |
| 04:06.37 | Tain | That is why I don't play, "end game" anymore, in any game I've played. |
| 04:06.39 | Iriel | I've not actually played EQ either |
| 04:06.41 | Tain | Including WoW. |
| 04:06.54 | Iriel | I thought about EQ2 but it was UGLY |
| 04:06.58 | Iriel | and I only play pretty games |
| 04:07.04 | Depherios | Zelda games are the only games I really fully explore anymore |
| 04:07.06 | Iriel | there's just not enough time for uglyones |
| 04:07.11 | Depherios | and games with no end |
| 04:07.13 | Tain | Once my guild was doing Molten Core three times a week and it was another part time job I quit doing it. |
| 04:07.38 | Depherios | "i.e. harvest moon, animal crossing, other useless fun "work" games" |
| 04:07.47 | Iriel | I love animal crossing |
| 04:07.52 | Depherios | I just got it for DS |
| 04:07.54 | Depherios | it's so wonderful ^_^ |
| 04:07.56 | Iriel | I'm presently feebly resisting teh call of the DS version |
| 04:07.58 | Iriel | damn you |
| 04:07.58 | Tain | It's only work if you don't enjoy it. |
| 04:08.00 | malreth | i bought a GC just to play Animal Crossing |
| 04:08.02 | Depherios | ... that's why I've been so quiet in here |
| 04:08.04 | Iriel | me too |
| 04:08.10 | Depherios | It's so good! |
| 04:08.12 | Iriel | my GC was for Animal Crossing |
| 04:08.17 | Iriel | my XBox was for Steel Batallion |
| 04:08.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge sweede (i=sweede@c-67-174-30-107.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 04:08.26 | Depherios | I never got much joy out of Steel Batallion |
| 04:08.26 | Tain | Steel Batallion was so fun. |
| 04:08.30 | malreth | i bought only that and FF:CC |
| 04:08.33 | Depherios | played too much mechwarrior 2 I guess |
| 04:08.35 | Tain | Oh god. |
| 04:08.40 | Depherios | FF:CC and Four Swords are great if you have the gameboys XD |
| 04:08.46 | Depherios | (I have 4 GBAs) |
| 04:08.51 | Depherios | (well, me and my GF have four) |
| 04:08.55 | Iriel | FF:CC was fun, but not QUITE good enough to hold people's interests |
| 04:08.55 | sweede | so, anyone that can help me with my tooltip addon and why it wont let me shift click or ctrl click items for pasting links or dressingroom items ? |
| 04:08.55 | Tain | FF:CC was so.. erm. Well I was about to say overwhelmingly disappointing. |
| 04:09.01 | malreth | i had my GF and her friend... they're both pokemon nuts |
| 04:09.01 | Depherios | FF:CC is great multiplayer |
| 04:09.06 | Depherios | get gameboys and try it |
| 04:09.08 | Depherios | OMFG |
| 04:09.14 | Tain | Oooh you sir are much assuming! |
| 04:09.15 | Depherios | Four Swords has awesome vs mode too |
| 04:09.22 | zespri | What are Zelda games anyway? |
| 04:09.38 | Tain | I wouldn't have even tried FF:CC if we didn't have Gameboys and multiple people to play. |
| 04:09.39 | Depherios | the older ones, and the gameboy versions are all top down adventure games... |
| 04:09.43 | Iriel | We did 3 player FF:CC, with the gameboys, but the other 2 folks got bored |
| 04:09.48 | Depherios | lol |
| 04:09.52 | Iriel | so we never finished it |
| 04:10.05 | Tain | After a few days everyone, as a whole, just turned to each other and said.. this isn't really that fun. |
| 04:10.08 | Depherios | FF:CC was great... Four Swords I haven't beaten yet, but only because I wait until we have 4 people over... and I'm not social |
| 04:10.16 | Depherios | oh |
| 04:10.21 | malreth | we had great teamwork... |
| 04:10.25 | Depherios | and because we spend too much time doing vs. mode |
| 04:10.34 | Depherios | FF:CC is designed for people who can't work together XD |
| 04:10.39 | Depherios | because they MAKE you |
| 04:10.44 | Depherios | lol |
| 04:10.52 | Tain | Well, we just didn't find it very fun. |
| 04:10.55 | Osagasu | I'm gonna get the DS version when it comes out |
| 04:10.58 | Tain | So moved on to other things. |
| 04:11.19 | Depherios | it's just one of the best four player hack-n-slash games I think' |
| 04:11.38 | Tain | That's what games are for, for people to enjoy and have fun with. |
| 04:11.45 | Depherios | yah |
| 04:11.57 | Depherios | hence why nobody I work with (including myself) ever beat games anymore |
| 04:11.59 | Tain | I didn't find it fun, but that doesn't mean I think it's a horrible game. I hope other people did. |
| 04:12.14 | malreth | well, apparently parts of texas are getting snow... Brenham and Bryan. it's not often that happens |
| 04:12.15 | sweede | none for helpin an addon issue ? |
| 04:12.21 | Depherios | lol, I'm just defensive Tain, because everybody automatically hates FF:CC because it's not like FFX |
| 04:12.27 | Iriel | sweede : Did you have a forum post about this? |
| 04:12.33 | sweede | no. |
| 04:12.36 | sweede | but i have http://pastebin.com/453583 :D |
| 04:12.45 | Tain | Ah that's not really what I'd compare it to at all. Actually, you can't compare FF:CC to anything I can think of. |
| 04:12.51 | Iriel | I remmeber that |
| 04:12.56 | Iriel | did you ever answer my questions the other day? |
| 04:13.07 | Depherios | nope |
| 04:13.10 | Iriel | i.e. does having this addon in stop ALL links from working? |
| 04:13.13 | Tain | Of course I also hated FFVII which many think is the pinnacle of games to date. |
| 04:13.15 | Osagasu | I didn't automatically have FFCC cause it wasn't FFX |
| 04:13.18 | Depherios | But I work at a GameStop, Tain ^_^ |
| 04:13.20 | Osagasu | I HATED FFX |
| 04:13.20 | sweede | iriel, i had a post there once, i got help.. i didnt like it, i'm used to the normal linux-style help of "RTFM noob" |
| 04:13.21 | Depherios | THANK YOU TAIN! |
| 04:13.23 | Osagasu | I HATED MEG RYAN |
| 04:13.24 | Depherios | I love you Tain ^_^ |
| 04:13.24 | sweede | iriel, yes |
| 04:13.29 | Osagasu | GAAAAH |
| 04:13.31 | malreth | FF:CC had spectacular graphics for a GC game |
| 04:13.39 | Depherios | ever play RE4 Mal? |
| 04:13.43 | sweede | what happens if i shift click an item, it displays a tooltip. |
| 04:13.45 | Tain | There were games for the GC that had great graphics. |
| 04:13.46 | Iriel | oh you're missing an arg on setitemerf |
| 04:13.51 | malreth | no... i don't play games |
| 04:13.57 | Depherios | the fire in Resident Evil 4 looks better than real fire XD |
| 04:14.02 | Iriel | 1.8.1/FrameXML/ItemRef.lua:function SetItemRef(link, text, button) |
| 04:14.06 | Depherios | (on the gamecube version) |
| 04:14.06 | Iriel | you just pass 'link' |
| 04:14.35 | sweede | so then, |
| 04:14.35 | sweede | function ZG_SetItemRef(link, text, button) |
| 04:14.35 | sweede | ZG_OriginalSetItemRef(link, text, button); |
| 04:14.36 | Tain | For me personally the Final Fantasy games I enjoyed most were Tactics, and Tactics Advance |
| 04:14.38 | sweede | would be right ? |
| 04:14.39 | Iriel | yes |
| 04:14.40 | Osagasu | http://www.gamespot.com/ds/rpg/finalfantasycrystalc/index.html |
| 04:14.43 | Osagasu | ^^ |
| 04:14.49 | sweede | <3 |
| 04:14.58 | sweede | to bad there's a 858420958029328094203423 long queue on hellscream or i'd test it. |
| 04:15.03 | zeeg | uploaded new version of patcher |
| 04:15.05 | malreth | unless the game has a wooden board and 361 black/white stones, i don't play |
| 04:15.07 | Depherios | yeah... and FF:CC leaked that Square is racing Nintendo... they want to beat Four Swords ^_^ |
| 04:15.17 | Iriel | go onto another realm then 8-) |
| 04:15.22 | Depherios | so we know now, that Nintendo is making four swords for DS |
| 04:15.24 | sweede | in the middle of mc :) |
| 04:15.33 | Iriel | malreth : Are you describing go? |
| 04:15.38 | Depherios | (of course, we already knew this, since Nintendo said that Four Swords gave them the idea for the DS) |
| 04:15.41 | Tain | 361 black/white stones... Go? |
| 04:15.43 | malreth | this wow-thing, don't play it |
| 04:15.50 | malreth | Iriel/Tain: yeah |
| 04:15.52 | Tain | haha |
| 04:15.59 | malreth | i don't even own it |
| 04:16.01 | Iriel | never played that, but it always sounded interesting |
| 04:16.06 | sweede | i wonder if i can make that addon a load on demand without restarting wow. |
| 04:16.11 | Osagasu | http://www.gamespot.com/ds/action/sonicds/review.html <3 |
| 04:16.12 | Tain | Go is easily one of the best, if not the best, strategy gmaes ever made. |
| 04:16.18 | Osagasu | Hardest Sonic game EVER |
| 04:16.18 | Iriel | sweede : No |
| 04:16.27 | Iriel | sweede : but you can edit the addon in place now |
| 04:16.41 | sweede | right, but the addon isnt loaded atm. |
| 04:16.41 | Iriel | sweede : And it'll load the updated version when the queue empties |
| 04:16.43 | Tain | Go seems like it would be simple. god it's so far from simple. |
| 04:16.47 | malreth | tain: i'm a rank amateur (18k) but i really enjoy playing Go |
| 04:16.50 | Iriel | Ah |
| 04:16.53 | Iriel | never mind then |
| 04:17.03 | Depherios | Osagasu: Animal Crossing just came out... I need nothing else... (for awhile) |
| 04:17.14 | Depherios | well... and mario kart |
| 04:17.23 | Iriel | Depherios : How does AC DS compare to the original? |
| 04:17.33 | Osagasu | ya I'm getting that when I get the $$ |
| 04:17.34 | sweede | well, that should work though. if not i'll see you in peoples court |
| 04:17.41 | Osagasu | DS > original |
| 04:17.43 | Tain | malreth: the funny thing is I actually used to play Go when I was a kid with my mother. Neither of us knew much about it but just picked up a new board game one day. |
| 04:17.50 | Osagasu | I got MKDS too |
| 04:17.55 | Depherios | same game, with more furniture, more animals, smaller world map, HATS, Hairstyles, stylus... |
| 04:18.13 | Osagasu | and internet |
| 04:18.17 | Osagasu | sometimes |
| 04:18.21 | Osagasu | my router hates my DS |
| 04:18.26 | Depherios | uh... the only "bad" things I can think of are 1: the town starts with 3 animals, don't know if it'll hold as many... |
| 04:18.36 | Depherios | Osagasu: get the DS USB dongle |
| 04:18.49 | Depherios | 2: map is smaller (this makes me happy) |
| 04:18.50 | Osagasu | I can't find it |
| 04:18.54 | Osagasu | no place HAS it |
| 04:18.54 | malreth | someday, i'll build a multiplayer go game addon for WoW. Uh, but first i'll have to get WoW and actually play it. |
| 04:18.55 | Depherios | it's only at nintendo.com |
| 04:19.04 | Tain | I read a great article about a year ago about Go, and how it was orders of magnitude harder to create a computer that played Go than chess. |
| 04:19.08 | Osagasu | you see, I don't have a credit card |
| 04:19.20 | Depherios | oh.... crap >:P |
| 04:19.52 | malreth | tain: the best computer program out there that plays go is routinely bested by 4kyu amateurs |
| 04:20.19 | malreth | it really isn't anything like chess |
| 04:20.22 | Tain | Yeah malreth, it was amazing, but made a lot of sense as it was fully explained. |
| 04:20.41 | Tain | It was just the comparison because Chess is often considered the big "challenge" |
| 04:20.46 | Tain | For computers vs human. |
| 04:20.51 | Depherios | I suck at chess |
| 04:20.55 | Depherios | ...bad |
| 04:21.01 | Depherios | as in |
| 04:21.06 | Depherios | I tought an 8 year old how to play chess |
| 04:21.10 | Depherios | ... he beat me later that day |
| 04:21.15 | Tain | I'm good at chess vs someone who hasn't studied chess. hehe |
| 04:21.18 | malreth | hahahhaa |
| 04:21.21 | Cair | Kaelten: error gone ... stupid thing, I've *no* idea |
| 04:21.39 | Cair | it just hates me, I guess |
| 04:21.41 | malreth | i can't figure out chess... but for some reason i can fathom Go |
| 04:21.46 | Depherios | (I should point out, I was 16 at the time... but I still suck just as bad) |
| 04:21.53 | Tain | I read a chess strategy book once, it blew my mind. It was really more of a battlefield strategy book. |
| 04:22.04 | Depherios | I can't plan ahead |
| 04:22.11 | Depherios | I'll never miss him moving a peice where it can get to one of mine |
| 04:22.17 | Depherios | but I can't think "so and so many moves ahead" |
| 04:22.17 | malreth | playing go taught me how to plan ahead |
| 04:22.29 | Tain | Go really is completely different. |
| 04:22.30 | malreth | i used to be good at connect four... simple game |
| 04:22.40 | Tain | haha |
| 04:22.40 | malreth | then i started playing go... |
| 04:23.01 | Depherios | but first... I have to get a game of Star Wars risk going |
| 04:23.07 | malreth | then when i played a quick game of connect four against a friend, just for fun, the possibilities exploded in my head |
| 04:23.21 | malreth | i literally had the entire game played out and beat him readily |
| 04:23.41 | sweede | Iriel, worked :D |
| 04:23.45 | malreth | obviously, C-4 is much simpler than go... but the concepts of go applied |
| 04:23.48 | sweede | lawsuit averted.. |
| 04:24.06 | Ktron | Chess is a simple game |
| 04:24.13 | Tain | Depherios: Go seems like it would be fairly simple when you first look at it. and then it slowly starts getting almost scary how involved it can get. |
| 04:24.15 | Ktron | White can always win or tie |
| 04:24.25 | Depherios | oh, I get chess easy... it's the planning ahead |
| 04:24.38 | Tain | I win. |
| 04:24.54 | malreth | tain: that move exists in go, too |
| 04:24.59 | Tain | haha |
| 04:25.13 | Depherios | I thought that was the end of every Risk, Monopoly, and Stratego game O_o |
| 04:25.17 | malreth | Nuclear Tesuji: flipping the board into the air and causing the stones to go flying |
| 04:25.37 | Depherios | I HATE THIS GAME!!!! *flips board* |
| 04:25.42 | Cair | I *hate* Monopoly! damn game |
| 04:25.49 | Cair | now Risk, otoh ... fun game! |
| 04:25.50 | Depherios | I only play Jr Monopoly |
| 04:25.54 | Depherios | Junior Monopoly = fun |
| 04:26.01 | zespri | what are the good board game then folks? |
| 04:26.01 | Depherios | it goes much faster XD |
| 04:26.03 | malreth | No... seriously! |
| 04:26.04 | malreth | http://www.google.com/search?q=nuclear+tesuji |
| 04:26.04 | Nomad_W|MC | Cair Plays Risk? |
| 04:26.11 | Cair | Heck yeah |
| 04:26.12 | Depherios | Risk is TEH WIN |
| 04:26.17 | Depherios | I got Star Wars risk |
| 04:26.18 | Cair | zespri: Risk |
| 04:26.19 | Nomad_W|MC | Castle Risk or regular risk |
| 04:26.20 | Depherios | but I can't get a bloody game together |
| 04:26.22 | Cair | Risk ROCKS |
| 04:26.30 | Cair | Regular |
| 04:26.38 | Depherios | Ever play 2 board risk anybody? |
| 04:26.49 | Cair | kiddo got LotR Risk the other christmas |
| 04:26.49 | zespri | lol, I don't really like risk. the best board game I ever plaied was settlers of catan |
| 04:26.54 | Nomad_W|MC | Secret country reinforcment rule? |
| 04:26.57 | Depherios | nobody ever has... I've met like 2 people who've used the system |
| 04:27.02 | zespri | but it gets boring in time too just not aas fast as risk |
| 04:27.17 | Cair | Depherios: 2 board risk? |
| 04:27.20 | Depherios | yeah |
| 04:27.26 | Nomad_W|MC | Catan is good |
| 04:27.28 | Depherios | when you get like... 8-12 people playing XD |
| 04:27.35 | Cair | running 2 simultaneously? |
| 04:27.44 | Depherios | you drop in a second board, and play as though there's "two dimensions" |
| 04:27.49 | Cair | *nod* |
| 04:27.50 | Depherios | you can attack adjecant spaces like before |
| 04:27.52 | Cair | that'd be fun |
| 04:27.55 | Depherios | ... but you can also attack YOUR country |
| 04:27.56 | Depherios | on the other board |
| 04:28.02 | Cair | lol |
| 04:28.10 | Nomad_W|MC | what about diagonally? |
| 04:28.13 | Cair | okay, so who plays cards? |
| 04:28.22 | zespri | I played mtg a little |
| 04:28.24 | Nomad_W|MC | waTichu? |
| 04:28.26 | Depherios | lol, no... just the ones next to you, and the same one on the other board |
| 04:28.27 | Cair | and I don't mean poker :p |
| 04:28.29 | Nomad_W|MC | oops.. Tichu? |
| 04:28.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphon (n=masked@c-67-183-238-150.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 04:28.40 | Nomad_W|MC | Hand and foot? Euchure? |
| 04:28.40 | Depherios | that, and 4 player chess... I love XD |
| 04:28.45 | Depherios | I think that's why I like healing in WoW XD |
| 04:28.48 | Depherios | multitasking = fun |
| 04:28.56 | Cair | Bridge, Canasta |
| 04:28.57 | zespri | Mtg is fun, but I couldn't get any of my friends in it so i stopped too |
| 04:29.09 | Nomad_W|MC | Hand and foot is a cnasta variant :) |
| 04:29.19 | Depherios | MTG took too much money |
| 04:29.27 | Cair | omg! someone that actually knows wtf Canasta is? |
| 04:29.31 | Depherios | lol |
| 04:29.32 | Cair | *boggle* |
| 04:29.39 | Depherios | I've played, but not much |
| 04:29.46 | Ktron | canasta and hand and foot pssh |
| 04:29.50 | Depherios | hard to find people who'll play, I honestly forget many of the rules |
| 04:29.54 | Ktron | I got into the old SWCCG |
| 04:29.54 | zespri | I haven't played canasta in ages, actually it's a brilliant idea, I have to try it tonight. Is 3 ppl enough for canasta? |
| 04:29.57 | malreth | yeah, Canasta... those are those clicky things that people dance with in their hands |
| 04:29.58 | Cair | seems like no one ever knows what it is |
| 04:30.00 | Depherios | YES! KTRON! |
| 04:30.00 | Tain | haha MTG was my first real game "addiction" |
| 04:30.01 | Ktron | way into the old SWCCG |
| 04:30.11 | cladhaire | <3 MTG |
| 04:30.11 | Depherios | I did that more than MTG XD |
| 04:30.13 | Cair | zespri: heck yes, you can play 3-handed |
| 04:30.14 | cladhaire | Ravnica is pimp |
| 04:30.18 | Tain | I know Canasta, but I really haven't played much. |
| 04:30.32 | Tain | I still have my MTG cards. |
| 04:30.39 | Nomad_W|MC | Hand and foot is better.. :) |
| 04:30.42 | Cair | zespri: person that picks up the deck per hand plays alone, the other two partner up |
| 04:30.45 | Cair | for that hand |
| 04:30.49 | Ktron | I know how to play magic and have invested like 20$ in mtg, I have all my SWCCG cards... probably invested 450$ at least into that |
| 04:30.51 | Tain | I have, this is not lie, 4 of every White card from Unlimited through Fallen Empires. |
| 04:30.55 | zespri | Ok Cair, then I'll try it tonight! =) |
| 04:30.58 | Depherios | we played a lot of Go Forward/Tien Len/Thirteen in school |
| 04:31.04 | Ktron | the 'ebay' estimate of what I could sell them for though is roughly 4000$ though |
| 04:31.15 | zespri | Tain I have about 5-6 decks too, terribly outdated |
| 04:31.22 | Tain | Plus Black Lotus, and 3 Moxes. |
| 04:31.29 | Ktron | figure I'll wait until SW is old school again and the collector value goes up again |
| 04:31.52 | Cair | I used to play 21 and Hearts back in University, but haven't played them in so long I can't remember |
| 04:31.56 | Tain | I got into MTG when Legends was just being sold. |
| 04:32.14 | Tain | People try to teach me Hearts every few years and I always forget how. |
| 04:32.15 | Ktron | how many people have played 4D tic tac toe? |
| 04:32.30 | zespri | 21 is just like poker, and because I don't enjoy games like poker I don't enjoy 21 either |
| 04:32.31 | Depherios | we had too many laosians and vietnamese in my school... so I played a lot of Thirteen XD |
| 04:32.42 | Tain | Strip poker on the other hand... |
| 04:32.47 | Ktron | Anyone heard of Sprouts (it's a 'pen/pencil game') |
| 04:32.50 | Cair | Lol, I see where this is going ... we're gonna go from MTG back to VtM and end up talking about how that'd be a funky MMO again |
| 04:32.51 | ForgottenLords | w000t! |
| 04:33.01 | Tain | I love VtM :( |
| 04:33.01 | ForgottenLords | my UI mod is almost ready for testing |
| 04:33.03 | Nomad_W|MC | You guys should check out the BGG. |
| 04:33.05 | Cair | I *still* think that would rock |
| 04:33.10 | Nomad_W|MC | Boardgamegeek. |
| 04:33.22 | Ktron | VtM? |
| 04:33.29 | zespri | Cair, what would rock? |
| 04:33.31 | Tain | I have all my VtM cards from when it was still called ... wtf... |
| 04:33.40 | Ktron | purl, vtm? |
| 04:33.41 | purl | extra, extra, read all about it, vtm is a television station from Belgium |
| 04:33.46 | Cair | Vampire the Masquerade |
| 04:33.54 | Ktron | ah.... pfff |
| 04:33.59 | Ktron | I don't _do_ vampire games |
| 04:34.16 | Tain | It was an awesome, awesome card strategy game. |
| 04:34.17 | Cair | Vamp vs Lycan |
| 04:34.28 | Ktron | Discworld FTW |
| 04:34.29 | Cair | would be a very very nifty MMO |
| 04:34.47 | Tain | Jyhad! |
| 04:34.52 | Tain | That's what it was called originally. |
| 04:35.00 | Cair | *nod* |
| 04:35.14 | Tain | wow it's funny you even mention that. |
| 04:35.18 | Tain | I was thinking about it yesterday. |
| 04:35.37 | Cair | I'm psychic |
| 04:35.43 | Ktron | Alright, time to watch Iron Chef and relax with the gf, later everyone, heh, I think I'm going to try to finish my first useful addon (mostly for developers) 'FrameID' later tonight, hopefully some of you are around |
| 04:35.52 | Cair | or is that psychotic? |
| 04:35.58 | Tain | I liked that game a lot. |
| 04:35.59 | Cair | later Ktron|afk :) |
| 04:35.59 | ForgottenLords | Cair, do you personally check submitted mods for malicious code? |
| 04:36.07 | Cair | Yup |
| 04:36.12 | ForgottenLords | sweetness! |
| 04:36.21 | ForgottenLords | kudos to you |
| 04:36.23 | Cair | Every single mod that goes up gets checked |
| 04:36.32 | Cair | every single time a mod is updated, it gets checked |
| 04:36.33 | Osagasu | maybe I can mooch my dad's credit card |
| 04:36.35 | Osagasu | hmm |
| 04:36.39 | Nomad_W|MC | sSeriously you guys need to check out http://www.boardgamegeek.com/ |
| 04:36.52 | Depherios | is it possible to send things via code? |
| 04:36.54 | Depherios | in AC? |
| 04:37.03 | Depherios | the new one O_o |
| 04:37.06 | Cair | why do you think we have the reputation we do in the UI modding community and with the MMO companies? |
| 04:37.07 | Iriel | Speaking of games, if you like card games - Killer Bunnies is excellent |
| 04:37.08 | Depherios | ... I haven't checked |
| 04:37.11 | Iriel | Not a CCG tho |
| 04:37.13 | Iriel | Just a CG |
| 04:37.16 | Nomad_W|MC | Killer bunnies ;) |
| 04:37.17 | Cair | our users *TRUST* us, and there is a reason for it |
| 04:37.25 | Tain | I was thinking about it just yesterday because I remembered everyong getting so annoyed because I'd play the card, "Wake With Evening's Freshness" so often. And it would make me laugh that it was named that. |
| 04:37.27 | Nomad_W|MC | Citadels myself ;) |
| 04:37.38 | Cair | and our authors do, too, because we support them, as well |
| 04:38.03 | ForgottenLords | true that |
| 04:38.09 | Cair | anyone can "host" mods |
| 04:38.19 | Cair | not everywhere builds communities |
| 04:38.35 | Tain | That's deep. |
| 04:38.36 | ForgottenLords | I was just curious myself |
| 04:38.58 | ForgottenLords | thanks for the info :) I'll be posting a new one within the week |
| 04:39.13 | Cair | cool |
| 04:39.32 | Cair | back to geek gaming talk :p |
| 04:40.34 | Tain | I like pie. |
| 04:40.45 | ForgottenLords | Mmm, Pie! |
| 04:41.07 | Legorol | howdy |
| 04:41.11 | zespri | Iriel: CG is better then ccg in my opinion =) |
| 04:41.12 | Legorol | seems like i missed a fun discussion |
| 04:41.25 | Legorol | I played MTG too, won a couple of smaller tournaments that I'm proud of |
| 04:41.29 | Cair | wb Legorol :) |
| 04:41.37 | Legorol | and I do know what Canasta is |
| 04:41.40 | Iriel | Yeah, I agree, CCG isn't my idea of fun. |
| 04:41.48 | Legorol | my family has been playing it ever since i was 6 or so |
| 04:41.48 | Depherios | I'd love CCG |
| 04:41.52 | Depherios | if it wasn't for the money it takes |
| 04:42.03 | Legorol | my brother learnt it at age of 5 |
| 04:42.04 | Iriel | unless all the cards go into a big pile before the game and everyone picks |
| 04:42.05 | Depherios | come on... cardboard... and how much do they charge? |
| 04:42.15 | Legorol | CCGs *are* expensive |
| 04:42.16 | Depherios | Iriel, yes, there you have it |
| 04:42.18 | Iriel | the idea of being able to purchase an advantage irks me |
| 04:42.20 | Tain | With the cards I have I couldn't even create a tournament legal M:TG deck |
| 04:42.23 | Legorol | i got away with the cost by borrowing from friends |
| 04:42.32 | Tain | You don't have to buy a lot to win. |
| 04:42.42 | Tain | Yes, you can get advantages. |
| 04:42.43 | Legorol | sadly not true :( |
| 04:42.43 | Depherios | Tain: how recently have you played? |
| 04:42.47 | Legorol | you either buy a lot, |
| 04:42.49 | Legorol | or you have connections |
| 04:43.02 | Legorol | in a tournament you do have to invest serious monies |
| 04:43.13 | Iriel | I'll stick to my bunnies |
| 04:43.30 | Depherios | that was why I liked the SWCCG |
| 04:43.46 | Depherios | there was no rare uberpowerful gards |
| 04:43.46 | Tain | I shouldn't speak to the current environment. I stopped playing right when.. the set after Fallen Empires came out. |
| 04:43.48 | Legorol | Canasta was fun though in my family |
| 04:43.49 | Depherios | cards |
| 04:43.54 | Depherios | the rare ones weren't much more powerful XD |
| 04:43.57 | Legorol | my brother was so small when he learnt it, he couldn't hold all the cards in his hand |
| 04:44.08 | Legorol | he had a little toy house with toy bunnies |
| 04:44.18 | Legorol | so he'd lay down his cards behind the house |
| 04:44.24 | Cair | Legorol: same here |
| 04:44.31 | zespri | We played Super Munchkin as well, unfortunately we didn't find it balanced. When somebody is close to winnnig everybody would gang up on him and then the game takes forever with this tactic |
| 04:44.36 | Cair | mind you, I *still* have problems holding all the cards by times ;) |
| 04:44.48 | Depherios | god, we used to play this game... I forget what it was called 64 I think... or something... you'd have 52 cards in your hand on the last round |
| 04:44.58 | Depherios | every player XD |
| 04:45.09 | Tain | I just know that when I was playing someone with better strategy and all "common" cards could beat someone who tried to rely on "rare" cards. |
| 04:45.28 | Depherios | True Tain, but a good player with good cards will beat a good player with mediocre cards |
| 04:45.31 | Depherios | it's like gear in wow |
| 04:45.34 | Depherios | SURE it's not ALL about gear |
| 04:45.38 | Depherios | ... but really |
| 04:45.41 | Tain | Munchkin is funny though. It's really not a game you try to win as much as laugh at the whole thing. |
| 04:45.46 | Legorol | when it comes to serious tournaments, rarity doesn't matter anymore |
| 04:45.54 | Legorol | the basic assumption is that you have access to all cards in any quantities |
| 04:46.11 | Legorol | and you build whatever deck you think is the most superior, and you play with best possible strategy |
| 04:46.17 | Legorol | that's what serious tournaments are about |
| 04:46.51 | Tain | Serious tournaments are annoying. Well, they were to me at the time. I played in a few and it wasn't "fun." |
| 04:47.07 | Legorol | in some sad sense tournaments expose the true "strategy" in that it doesn't rely anymore on who spent more on it... since everyone did :-) |
| 04:47.15 | zespri | Iriel, I just had a look at bunnies site. it says "When all of the Carrots have been taken from Kaballa's Market the game is over and the Magic Carrot is revealed. The player holding that Carrot is the winner! |
| 04:47.15 | zespri | " |
| 04:47.22 | Legorol | I agree Tain, playing with friends is lot more fun |
| 04:47.27 | zespri | does it mean that the winner is random? |
| 04:47.28 | Legorol | except for the occasional adrenaline rush |
| 04:47.29 | Iriel | That is true |
| 04:47.31 | Iriel | yes and no |
| 04:47.49 | Tain | Yeah Legorol. The most fun MTG games I ever had was 5 people, one person each color. |
| 04:47.55 | Iriel | there's a small carrot deck, which is shuffled before the game, and placed in a safe place |
| 04:47.58 | Tain | That was so awesome. |
| 04:48.08 | Iriel | the winner is the one who has the carrot at the end of that deck |
| 04:48.13 | Iriel | but nobody knows which one that is |
| 04:48.30 | Iriel | you CAN find out a few of the ones it ISNT, if you're lucky |
| 04:48.32 | Legorol | btw, why is that any activity i ever did in my life that was considered geeky, seems to be correlated with other activities other geeks seem to have done in their lives? |
| 04:48.34 | Nomad_W|MC | Main page for KB: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/3699 Reviews: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekforum.php3?action=viewforum&forumid=63&gameid=3699 |
| 04:48.48 | malreth | You all should play Flux |
| 04:48.51 | Iriel | (There's a card which lets you see the top X cards on the carrot deck) |
| 04:48.55 | Nomad_W|MC | wFluxx! |
| 04:48.56 | Depherios | beacuse we're geeks? |
| 04:48.57 | Tain | Now it wasn't the 'best' MTG deck, but I had a lot of fun playing an "Elephant" deck. All of my creatures were elephants, white/green. |
| 04:49.07 | zespri | Iriel: of course I haven't played it, but on my opinion if games relies mostly on randomnes to determine winner it's not good. Of couse the one who will have more carrot will have better chanses but it's possible to whin to somebody sho had one carrot only, while one eho had 7 carots clearly outperform him |
| 04:49.08 | Iriel | but you can never know which of the carrots is the winning one |
| 04:49.10 | Depherios | I hate that "nerd" is cool now |
| 04:49.28 | Iriel | The strategy is to have more carrots than anyone else, and keep bunnies alive |
| 04:49.32 | Nomad_W|MC | 520Killer bunnies isn't a serious game.. it's a very lighthearted game ;) |
| 04:49.37 | Cair | nerd is not cool |
| 04:49.38 | zespri | Iriel: oh sorry haven't read you before finishjed typing |
| 04:49.40 | Cair | geek is cool |
| 04:49.43 | Iriel | you have to have a living bunny to win, as well as the right carrot |
| 04:49.44 | Depherios | true Cair |
| 04:49.45 | Cair | nerd is just ... nerd |
| 04:49.51 | Depherios | true |
| 04:49.54 | Cair | actually ... geek is damn sexy |
| 04:49.57 | Depherios | but MY JOB, is cool WTF XD |
| 04:49.57 | Tain | I did learn that in MTG the absolute worst thing you could ever hear was, "Giant Growth, Giant Growth, Giant Growth, Berzerk." |
| 04:50.00 | Osagasu | a geek is a nerd that has social aptitude. |
| 04:50.01 | Iriel | but when it comes down to it, as long as you're still 'in the game' you could win |
| 04:50.04 | Nomad_W|MC | Alot of the fun is the game, not winning ;) |
| 04:50.06 | Depherios | I work at a video game store... and know about computers O_o |
| 04:50.07 | Nomad_W|MC | Geek is the new chic. |
| 04:50.13 | Depherios | I hate |
| 04:50.16 | Kaelten | Tain: Tack fork onto the end of that. |
| 04:50.18 | Iriel | you could win even if you have no carrots, if you can kill all the bunnies of the people who DO have carrots |
| 04:50.20 | Depherios | that the same people who used to make fun of me for liking video games |
| 04:50.21 | Legorol | Tain, that's not the worst... that requires a creature ;-) |
| 04:50.28 | Depherios | now make fun of me because I don't like GTA and GT4 |
| 04:50.30 | Iriel | but yes, it's definitely a game of fun |
| 04:50.33 | Iriel | not seriousness |
| 04:50.35 | Osagasu | oh nono |
| 04:50.35 | Tain | haha Kaelten. Yeah. But I used to play my brother who played all green. |
| 04:50.39 | Kaelten | "Giant Growth, Giant Growth, Bloodlust, Bloodlust, Beserk, Fork" |
| 04:50.39 | Iriel | even though there's real strategy to it |
| 04:50.40 | Osagasu | MTG... SLIVERS |
| 04:50.43 | Osagasu | GAH |
| 04:50.48 | Tain | I thought the new chic was teenage lesbians? |
| 04:50.50 | Osagasu | fucking HATE slivers |
| 04:50.53 | Depherios | lol @ Tain |
| 04:50.56 | Legorol | god, does *everyone* knwo what MtG is? |
| 04:50.58 | Legorol | this freaks me out.. |
| 04:51.05 | Depherios | Legorol: yes |
| 04:51.08 | Legorol | if i picked people around me in RL, noone would know.. |
| 04:51.09 | Cair | Magic the Gathering, duh |
| 04:51.10 | Depherios | Legorol: even my mom |
| 04:51.14 | Legorol | what place have i gotten into |
| 04:51.17 | Kaelten | I started playing MTG in revised |
| 04:51.19 | Depherios | where do you live? |
| 04:51.25 | Depherios | here in the NW, EVERYBODY knows what MTG was |
| 04:51.27 | Kaelten | quit around visions |
| 04:51.30 | Tain | Kaelten: I started playing when Legends was being sold. |
| 04:51.31 | Depherios | I say was as it's much more dead now |
| 04:51.42 | malreth | osagasu: LOL |
| 04:51.43 | Cair | Legorol: why do you think I'm surprised at the number of folks in this channel that know Canasta? same thing |
| 04:51.44 | Kaelten | Dark was just going out of print when I Started |
| 04:51.49 | Nomad_W|MC | Dead teenage lesbians, Now that is just gross |
| 04:51.56 | Cair | Nomad_W|MC: EWWWW |
| 04:52.00 | Depherios | I was surprised at the AC reply, and somebody having played Steel Batallion XD |
| 04:52.06 | Depherios | STEEL BATALLION!? |
| 04:52.14 | Depherios | NOBODY has heard of that game XD |
| 04:52.22 | zespri | Iriel, thank you for the explanation, it's interesting |
| 04:52.22 | Iriel | bah, everyone had heard of it |
| 04:52.22 | Nomad_W|MC | Steel Battellion pfft.. Herzog Zwei |
| 04:52.27 | Tain | There was hardware mod to use the Steel Batallion controller with the PC |
| 04:52.27 | Iriel | not that many actually bought it |
| 04:52.30 | Tain | haha Herzog Zwei! |
| 04:52.35 | Depherios | True, Iriel, but everybody has forgotten it |
| 04:52.38 | Iriel | zespri : It's a REALLY fun game to play |
| 04:52.40 | Depherios | Herzog Zwei XD |
| 04:52.42 | Tain | I alwasy bring out Herzog Zwei to trump people |
| 04:52.44 | *** part/#wowi-lounge pagefault (i=pagefaul@toronto-HSE-ppp4035230.sympatico.ca) |
| 04:52.49 | malreth | OMG HZ! |
| 04:52.57 | Legorol | Actually there are worse things than Giant Growth etc., how about: Forest, Mox Emerald, Black Lotus, Channel, Fireball, you lose! |
| 04:52.58 | Iriel | zespri : But you really do need 3 or more players |
| 04:53.03 | Nomad_W|MC | Cower Before my Geek Cred! |
| 04:53.05 | Depherios | I didn't enjoy Steel Batallion much, as I was a HUGE MW2 player |
| 04:53.07 | Depherios | and had joysticks and stuff |
| 04:53.22 | Iriel | The steel batallion sequel was kind of hardcore. |
| 04:53.24 | Nomad_W|MC | Mw2 pfft.. Ghost Bear Expansion! |
| 04:53.26 | Depherios | I have the Herzog Zwei soundtrack on my computer I think... |
| 04:53.27 | Iriel | Ididn't do too well on that |
| 04:53.47 | Tain | Legorol: I did put together a one round kill everyone hand with those and .. aaaaah there was a red card like Fireball that did damage to all playes. |
| 04:53.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge pagefault (i=pagefaul@toronto-HSE-ppp4035230.sympatico.ca) |
| 04:54.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Lab (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 04:54.02 | pagefault | what would be the best place for a WoW UI tutorial |
| 04:54.06 | Tain | Herzog Zwei was so far ahead of its time it is scary. |
| 04:54.11 | pagefault | or writing a /command |
| 04:54.15 | Iriel | pagefault : The wiki? |
| 04:54.15 | pagefault | I know nothing about doing such things |
| 04:54.16 | Depherios | Shush nomad, I have every expac for both original AND the Titanium Ed. re-release |
| 04:54.22 | Iriel | http://www.wowwiki.com/HOWTOs |
| 04:54.26 | pagefault | Iriel, url? |
| 04:54.29 | pagefault | thanks |
| 04:54.40 | Nomad_W|MC | Do you have the special Ati Rage edition release? |
| 04:54.40 | zespri | Iriel, then I may want to get it to try out =) |
| 04:54.40 | Iriel | http://www.wowwiki.com/HOWTO:_Create_a_Slash_Command |
| 04:54.52 | pagefault | ahh |
| 04:54.56 | pagefault | excellent :) |
| 04:55.07 | Nomad_W|MC | It was a 2 month post release release for the ati-rage that had new textures :) |
| 04:55.18 | Cair | speaking of slash commands, you guys may find this interesting: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4383 |
| 04:55.22 | Iriel | zespri :I have all of the cards that are available to date, but I haven't played all of them yet, I try to introdue only one expansion deck at a time, and I have a hard time finding people who will play with me |
| 04:55.44 | Nomad_W|MC | Very intersting Cair! You can keep my pants for that one. |
| 04:55.44 | Depherios | Cair... thank you |
| 04:56.04 | Tain | I did play the MTG online beta too, it was pretty fun. But I wasn't going to pay real money for virtual cards. |
| 04:56.22 | Nomad_W|MC | But you will pay real money for wow :) how is that different ? |
| 04:56.24 | pagefault | ah great |
| 04:56.34 | Tain | I decree a difference. |
| 04:56.40 | pagefault | I am going to write a command that will let me know who has low health in my area and target/soul drain |
| 04:56.45 | zespri | Iriel, too bad you are not in new zealand |
| 04:56.47 | pagefault | so I can easily find shards in pvp |
| 04:57.15 | Iriel | Well, if I was in NZ my commute would be a bitch! 8-) |
| 04:57.36 | Legorol | Tain, I have a sizable collection on MtGO, and it cost me exactly $0.00 |
| 04:57.37 | pagefault | just a small swim |
| 04:57.44 | zespri | Iriel: I can imagine this =) |
| 04:57.58 | Iriel | Not to mention my ping time to WoW 8-) |
| 04:58.05 | Iriel | Or is that something we're not allowed to discuss? |
| 04:58.07 | Legorol | I have managed to go "infinite" in the sense of turning a net profit out of my cards |
| 04:58.09 | zespri | ping is not that bad |
| 04:58.13 | Tain | I haven't looked at it since beta, and what they were saying would be the case at that time, Legorol. |
| 04:58.40 | zespri | i mean it could be better but I think that in reality you woudn't notivce difference between 50 and 300 |
| 04:58.40 | Legorol | well what happened with me was this: i have played in beta, and as a result got an account for free at the start instead of having to play $10 for it. |
| 04:58.42 | Tain | They were still in the middle of people duping cards then. hehe |
| 04:58.56 | Legorol | then i scrounged together some commons for playing |
| 04:59.05 | Legorol | then i happened to be online during a period when they had very nasty bugs/crashes |
| 04:59.13 | Legorol | so they compensated all players with a few unopened packs |
| 04:59.19 | Tain | Very nice. |
| 04:59.21 | Legorol | i used those to enter a tournament where i won more packs |
| 04:59.23 | Cair | pong |
| 04:59.31 | Tain | I like Pong. |
| 04:59.33 | Legorol | and from there it's been going up until i quit |
| 05:00.20 | Tain | One of the most intense, and competitive (and almost violent) night of multiplayer games I've ever had was just a few years ago when I broke out the Atari 2600, 4 paddle controls, and multiplayer Pong games. |
| 05:00.41 | pagefault | anyone in here using WoW in linux with an ati card? |
| 05:00.53 | Tain | Talk to kergoth. |
| 05:01.04 | pagefault | yeah I know I do, but I thought he switched to windows |
| 05:01.15 | pagefault | I was curious if it was faster than say a year ago |
| 05:01.38 | Osagasu | someone needs to make a pong mod. |
| 05:01.46 | pagefault | oh god |
| 05:01.52 | pagefault | well maybe... |
| 05:01.58 | Iriel | The challenge with pong is the latency |
| 05:02.10 | pagefault | waiting outside instance entrances for people to come |
| 05:02.25 | Iriel | though I suppose a ball handoff protocol after each 'bounce' would be fair |
| 05:02.25 | pagefault | I have a tetris one |
| 05:02.32 | Iriel | if you didn't care if the opponent cheated |
| 05:02.44 | pagefault | but why pong |
| 05:02.48 | pagefault | I would prefer ark :) |
| 05:02.51 | Tain | Pong rules. |
| 05:03.07 | pagefault | bleh, yeah |
| 05:03.11 | Depherios | do something turn based... connect the dots, or chess |
| 05:03.11 | pagefault | but you can't smash blocks |
| 05:03.17 | Depherios | I wanted to make a paper rock scissors mod |
| 05:03.20 | Depherios | for making decisions in parties XD |
| 05:03.24 | pagefault | hahaha |
| 05:03.26 | Depherios | I SAY WE GO DO THIS |
| 05:03.28 | pagefault | for loot |
| 05:03.32 | Depherios | for anything XD |
| 05:03.36 | Iriel | Which game is it that has that |
| 05:03.37 | Iriel | I can't rmember |
| 05:03.45 | Iriel | is it guild wars? or CoH? |
| 05:03.47 | Iriel | or something else? |
| 05:03.52 | Tain | Isn't there already Paper/Rock/Scissors? |
| 05:04.00 | Tain | Or maybe it is CoH |
| 05:04.00 | pagefault | it's a good idea, in theory you get the same chances as before |
| 05:04.07 | pagefault | blizzard should just adopt that method |
| 05:04.09 | Depherios | yeah, but with YOUR decision |
| 05:04.14 | pagefault | yeah |
| 05:04.19 | Depherios | you can be strategic about it XD |
| 05:04.35 | pagefault | haha |
| 05:04.36 | pagefault | perhaps |
| 05:04.37 | Tain | I'm still amazed, and amused, that there is a Paper/Rock/Scissors world championship. |
| 05:04.37 | Iriel | There is no real strategy to RPS |
| 05:04.41 | Iriel | It's all psychological |
| 05:04.48 | Depherios | that's what I mean |
| 05:04.51 | pagefault | well |
| 05:04.52 | Depherios | you can psyche 'em out |
| 05:04.56 | Depherios | pick paper every single time |
| 05:04.59 | pagefault | it still has mathematic probabilities |
| 05:05.01 | zespri | see you guys time to go home for me |
| 05:05.02 | pagefault | like anything else |
| 05:05.03 | Depherios | until something comes up you care about |
| 05:05.09 | Depherios | ... then pick rock |
| 05:05.13 | Iriel | but RPS is essentially 'zero sum' |
| 05:05.16 | Iriel | or whatever |
| 05:05.24 | Iriel | each round is independent, and there's no move better than any other |
| 05:05.25 | malreth | RPS is amazing game theory |
| 05:05.28 | Depherios | they'll stick pick scissors, you get the item you really wanted |
| 05:05.30 | pagefault | mathematical probabilities are still 1 in 2 in RPS than two people rolling on 100 |
| 05:06.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kergoth_ (n=kergoth@c-24-118-219-25.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 05:06.27 | Cair | okay, so here's a fun one for you guys to think about |
| 05:06.33 | Iriel | I guess that's what makes RPS interesting, is that any strategy is really a metastrategy |
| 05:06.40 | Iriel | you're gaming the other person's strategy, not their actual play |
| 05:06.41 | pagefault | yeah |
| 05:06.43 | Depherios | lol yeah |
| 05:06.48 | pagefault | it would be the best in PUG's |
| 05:06.49 | pagefault | but not in guildes |
| 05:07.04 | Iriel | I think guilds deserve it more then PUG's 8-) |
| 05:07.05 | pagefault | in a guild you pretty much can figure out how to win off someone else :) |
| 05:07.07 | Iriel | But that's kist me. |
| 05:07.11 | Depherios | it'd just be a nice change every so often |
| 05:07.30 | Iriel | especially pick-up guilds |
| 05:07.44 | pagefault | in the future I think people will be assigned a class to be |
| 05:07.46 | Depherios | problem is you couldn't do it in raids unless you wanted to have it take forever XD |
| 05:07.53 | pagefault | like a MMORPG |
| 05:08.16 | Tain | Stupid MMORPGs |
| 05:08.22 | pagefault | if everyone was trained a certain way |
| 05:08.25 | Depherios | lol |
| 05:08.29 | pagefault | they even if they didn't speak the same language |
| 05:08.31 | pagefault | they could go somewhere else |
| 05:08.35 | pagefault | and do their job perfectly for a class |
| 05:08.36 | malreth | oh well... irc a bit too distracting. need to work on something. |
| 05:08.37 | malreth | later all |
| 05:08.43 | Depherios | lol |
| 05:08.49 | Tain | Stupid work. |
| 05:09.01 | pagefault | well |
| 05:09.09 | pagefault | productivity is pretty silly |
| 05:09.30 | Cair | nope, didn't want to interrupt |
| 05:09.33 | pagefault | silly productivties, why can't everyone play WoW |
| 05:09.44 | Cair | since this is *completely* different from current subject |
| 05:09.47 | Depherios | are we playing WoW? |
| 05:09.54 | ForgottenLords | pagefault, everytime I look at your name, I have to hold back the urge to curse. it reminds me of Segmentation Faults... |
| 05:10.09 | Iriel | I'm actually supposed to be taking the trash down the hill |
| 05:10.15 | Cair | heh, me too Depherios :) |
| 05:10.17 | Iriel | so i'm going to do that now, and then return |
| 05:10.19 | pagefault | ForgottenLords, as long as it's nothing personal :) |
| 05:10.35 | ForgottenLords | well, its between C and I ;) |
| 05:10.50 | Cair | okay, so here's one for you guys to try to figure out how to deal with |
| 05:10.58 | Cair | you are the guild leader of a high end guild |
| 05:11.08 | Tain | Kick them all out. |
| 05:11.32 | Cair | *someone* in the guild seems to have some sort of a vendetta against some others in the guild, but no one knows who it is |
| 05:11.56 | Cair | so, you're busy raiding, and in raid chat, some of your members are swearing |
| 05:11.59 | pagefault | what is this person doing |
| 05:12.06 | Cair | the asshole petitions them |
| 05:12.10 | Cair | repeatedly |
| 05:12.27 | pagefault | and you are pretty sure it's someone IN the guild? |
| 05:12.28 | Cair | the people swearing end up getting permanently banned |
| 05:12.35 | Cair | it's KNOWN that it is someone in the guild |
| 05:12.45 | Cair | just not who |
| 05:12.53 | pagefault | that is just so bizarre |
| 05:13.05 | Cair | so ... as GL, you petition the GMs to stay the fuck out of your guild business |
| 05:13.24 | Cair | since this is an internal problem, it's not in "public" channels, etc |
| 05:13.34 | pagefault | well I would ask the GM |
| 05:13.36 | Cair | response from Blizzs |
| 05:13.40 | pagefault | who is reporting it so you can deal with it |
| 05:13.46 | Cair | they won't tell you |
| 05:13.51 | Cair | privacy |
| 05:14.02 | pagefault | that is rediculous, they should be able to tell you the CHARACTER name |
| 05:14.08 | pagefault | that is anonymous |
| 05:14.11 | Cair | so anyway, this is the official response from Blizz |
| 05:14.17 | Cair | erps: blizz's response to my request they stop interfering w/ guild issues: |
| 05:14.18 | Cair | erps: "In regards to harassment issues, please note that there are some specific channels which are considered to be private channels, where players are expected to regulate themselves. |
| 05:14.18 | Cair | erps: Guild chat is one such channel. |
| 05:14.18 | Cair | erps: Other channels, including the Raid and Party channels, are considered public channels. |
| 05:14.18 | Cair | erps: This applies even if the entire raid is in the same guild." |
| 05:14.19 | Cair | erps: WTF! |
| 05:14.21 | Cair | erps: Someone, PLEASE explain how a SUBSET of a "private channel, where players are expected to regulate themselves" can be a PUBLIC CHANNEL? |
| 05:14.48 | Nomad_W|MC | The issue is that you dont get perm banned for doing nothing... |
| 05:14.54 | Tain | I maintain my initial suggestion. |
| 05:15.03 | Cair | Tain, they don't know who it is |
| 05:15.23 | Nomad_W|MC | Something Blizzard doesn't like is going on. |
| 05:15.24 | pagefault | you gotta set a trap or something |
| 05:15.29 | Stylp1 | What the hell? Isn't that what the profanity filter is for? |
| 05:15.34 | pagefault | do something that would make them do it again |
| 05:15.39 | pagefault | and try to figure out who it affected |
| 05:15.56 | Cair | Guild chat, GM won't interfer, as that is "private" ... Raid chat, even though the only people in it are guild members, GM interfers, because it's "public" |
| 05:16.02 | Osagasu | I'd go into the General forums with the report and the reply |
| 05:16.20 | Cair | does anyone else think this is just really screwed up? |
| 05:16.24 | Depherios | yes |
| 05:16.26 | Stylp1 | yes |
| 05:16.26 | Depherios | everyobody does |
| 05:16.31 | Osagasu | yep |
| 05:16.33 | Depherios | some GM overstepped his bounds because he likes power |
| 05:16.37 | Depherios | ... that's what it sounds like to me |
| 05:16.43 | Tain | It's hard to believe though that you wouldn't have any idea whatsover. In a guild,k I guess just in my experience, there's generally some idea. |
| 05:16.55 | Cair | except, it hasn't been just *one* instance |
| 05:17.11 | Cair | the person, whoever it is, has gotten *multiple* people perma banned |
| 05:17.18 | Cair | over time |
| 05:17.30 | Iriel | It's screwed up BUT it's also been the stated rules, since launch. |
| 05:17.50 | Cair | but as erps says, the channel is a subset of a "private" chat |
| 05:18.09 | Guillotine | thats crazy... |
| 05:18.13 | Ktron|afk | Cair: Can you ask the GM for a name? |
| 05:18.16 | Iriel | Blizzard consider party and raid public, always. |
| 05:18.24 | Cair | so how does a subset of a private chat become public? |
| 05:18.36 | Guillotine | Ktron|afk: they wouldn't be able to respond for privacy reasons |
| 05:18.41 | Cair | Ktron: please note, this isn't me |
| 05:18.47 | Iriel | it's a different channel, I know it's crazy, I suspect it just makes the rules more clear |
| 05:18.58 | Iriel | like, what if the raid is all a guild plus one non-guild person |
| 05:19.08 | Cair | this is just something from another channel that I'm bringing over here for discussion |
| 05:19.14 | Iriel | Are the GM's expected to go find out who was in the raid at the instant something was said? |
| 05:19.15 | Osagasu | personally, I'd go with XFire + in game mode |
| 05:19.27 | Iriel | I mean, it'd be doable if they have sufficient logging (whcih they might well not have) |
| 05:19.37 | Iriel | but it'd be a bit of a mess |
| 05:20.03 | Iriel | Practicality is a fair consideration, even if it's silly. |
| 05:20.18 | Iriel | And you'd think, if this happened ONCE that the guild would learn to shut the fuck up in the raid channel? |
| 05:20.26 | Iriel | I mean, to have it happen on more than one occasion is pretty silly |
| 05:20.30 | Cair | well yeah, but geez |
| 05:20.36 | Iriel | Now.. |
| 05:20.41 | Iriel | permabans for swearing, I dont think so |
| 05:20.48 | Cair | apparently |
| 05:20.50 | Iriel | not without some stupid attitude to go with it |
| 05:20.54 | Beladona | even Blizz has to admit that is pretty sad |
| 05:21.00 | Nomad_W|MC | My point. you do NOT get perm banned for swearing |
| 05:21.08 | Iriel | there's more to this than is being claimed |
| 05:21.08 | Cair | the person complaining is calling it "harrasment" |
| 05:21.10 | Iriel | regardless |
| 05:21.33 | Cair | they find it offensive and harrasment, which *will* get you perma banned |
| 05:21.37 | Nomad_W|MC | Research still occurs. You can't jus yell Heretic, and get the other person burnt at the stake |
| 05:21.39 | Iriel | well, maybe it is |
| 05:21.45 | Iriel | I mean, do we know what got said? |
| 05:21.48 | Nomad_W|MC | Maybe it is harrassent then |
| 05:21.53 | Iriel | Maybe some guild members DID cross that line |
| 05:21.56 | Iriel | and did so in raid chat |
| 05:21.57 | Cair | yet, other people in the guild are saying the same things |
| 05:22.01 | Iriel | in whcih case, let them BURN |
| 05:22.02 | Cair | and not getting reported |
| 05:22.24 | Cair | again, remember, I'm just passing along what the GL has said |
| 05:22.25 | Stylp1 | That's jsut stupid. The person doing this should at least talk to the offending person before he reports him :S Whattan asshole |
| 05:22.45 | Iriel | Exactly, cair is passing along one person's interpretation of this |
| 05:22.55 | Iriel | without access to the reports, the responses, the Gm conversations, anything |
| 05:22.58 | Nomad_W|MC | You don't think the GM's aren't doing research? You don't think the GM's have a reported Harassment Counter for each account/character? |
| 05:23.12 | Iriel | I think we can discuss whether /raid being considered 'public' makes sense |
| 05:23.15 | Tain | Yes, Nomad. Actually, I don't think that. |
| 05:23.19 | Iriel | but I dont think we can go to far on THIS issue. |
| 05:23.35 | Beladona | can tell you from experience, that players typically have a "counter" like a 3 strikes kinda thing |
| 05:23.36 | Iriel | I'd be pretty sure the GM's track what youv'e submitted |
| 05:23.44 | Nomad_W|MC | Tain, I jsut reported you for making an illogical statement, enjoy your 2 hour vacation. |
| 05:23.48 | Iriel | afterall they do track item restorations |
| 05:23.51 | Nomad_W|MC | just kidding. |
| 05:23.57 | Nomad_W|MC | but seriously.. It's not like that. |
| 05:24.06 | Beladona | is this something someone posted on the forums? |
| 05:24.09 | Codayus | At a minimum, it seems like a GM should be able to check if the petioner and the target of the petition are in the same guild. |
| 05:24.22 | Iriel | So what if they are Codayus ? |
| 05:24.28 | Cair | Bela, no, one of the other channels |
| 05:24.30 | Iriel | You dont get immunity from something by being in my guild |
| 05:24.31 | Cair | that I'm in |
| 05:24.51 | Tain | See I think different GMs apply different standards. |
| 05:24.51 | Beladona | I agree with Iriel |
| 05:24.55 | Cair | I've been listening to this saga for days |
| 05:24.55 | Iriel | The rules dont make adjustments for 'level of acquaintance' |
| 05:24.57 | Codayus | Well, guild chat is private. And as an extension, I I think if two guild members are insulting each other, it should be handled A.) By the guild leader or B.) by leaving the guild |
| 05:25.01 | Beladona | if I think you are an ass, then I think you are an ass |
| 05:25.05 | Codayus | And if it continues, THEN petition. |
| 05:25.06 | Iriel | if you're friends, you dont report each other, that's how that works. |
| 05:25.07 | Beladona | I don't care what tag you have on |
| 05:25.13 | Tain | Guild Chat isn't exactly private though. It's just limited. |
| 05:25.15 | Iriel | Yes, guild chat IS private |
| 05:25.22 | Iriel | Guild chat can be regulated by the guild leader |
| 05:25.33 | Cair | the only reason I brought it here tonight was the response from Blizz, the whole "raid channel as a subset of guild channel, goes from being private to being public" |
| 05:25.35 | Iriel | we're not talking about guild chat though |
| 05:25.50 | Beladona | I kind of agree with that though |
| 05:25.50 | Iriel | I think you're taking the wrong interpretation of it cair |
| 05:25.56 | Codayus | I don't think that should change just because its guildies talking out of guildchat. |
| 05:25.56 | Iriel | The raid channel is public, no matter who is in it |
| 05:25.59 | Iriel | period. |
| 05:25.59 | Beladona | because anyone in the game can be in that raid channel |
| 05:26.02 | Tain | I dunno. The only thing I see as private is tells. |
| 05:26.03 | Beladona | not just guild members |
| 05:26.10 | Tain | Everything else is more than private. |
| 05:26.16 | Codayus | Clearly nobody outside the guild was offended, since the petition was from a guildmember. |
| 05:26.28 | Beladona | thats just this time |
| 05:26.28 | Cair | the only people in the channel are guild members |
| 05:26.34 | Nomad_W|MC | Raid channel is not a subste of guild. They can't make exceptions. Raid is a public channel, as people outside your guild could be in it any given moment. |
| 05:26.35 | Cair | their raids are closed |
| 05:26.47 | Codayus | So I don't see how this is different than if it was on the /g channel. |
| 05:27.00 | Iriel | But as I said earlier, the GM's cannot make rules around how that guild conducts their business |
| 05:27.00 | Codayus | Nomad_W|MC: And if they are, then they can petition, right? But that didn't happen. |
| 05:27.07 | Beladona | because Blizz defines raid as public |
| 05:27.13 | Beladona | regardless of how you run it |
| 05:27.25 | Beladona | it isn't that there was only guild members in it |
| 05:27.30 | Iriel | petty guild politics are petty guild politics also, no matter what you do and where you do it |
| 05:27.35 | Beladona | it is that there COULD be non-guildmembers in it |
| 05:27.36 | Cair | btw, please note, I haven't said how I feel about this one way or the other, I'm just bringing it here for discussion and debate, and having fun playing devil's advocate |
| 05:27.36 | Nomad_W|MC | Yep.. if you start complicating things by saying well who was in the raid at that moment, it sows things down. |
| 05:27.41 | Iriel | that's like saying you can'r report shouts in MC |
| 05:27.46 | Iriel | becuse it was just your guild in the instance |
| 05:27.50 | Iriel | I'm sure blizzard GM's would think otherwise |
| 05:27.54 | Iriel | because shouts are public |
| 05:27.57 | Beladona | don't get me wrong. Whoever did it needs to be shot |
| 05:27.57 | Codayus | Should you be banned for swearing in an empty zone on the /say channel because someone *could* have heard it then? |
| 05:28.03 | Beladona | and castrated |
| 05:28.08 | Codayus | Even if nobody did? |
| 05:28.10 | Iriel | Someone actually HAs to hear you |
| 05:28.14 | Iriel | Otherwise they wouldn't report you |
| 05:28.29 | Cair | Codayus: if a tree falls in the forest and there is no one there to hear it, does it still make a noise? |
| 05:28.32 | Osagasu | why do they even allow you to turn off filtering if that's the case? |
| 05:28.34 | Codayus | I know... |
| 05:28.34 | Osagasu | I mean really |
| 05:28.36 | Osagasu | WTF? |
| 05:28.44 | Iriel | And absolutely, there should never be a permaban for 'swearing' |
| 05:28.56 | Iriel | but I firmly believe there never IS a permaban for 'swearing' |
| 05:29.04 | Cair | but when does "swearing" become harassment? |
| 05:29.07 | Beladona | actually a better way of saying that is. If a tree falls in teh forest, but no one is there to hear it, is it not really a forest? |
| 05:29.12 | Tain | If a man talks in a forest and there's no woman around to hear him, is he still wrong? |
| 05:29.14 | Cair | lol Beladona |
| 05:29.14 | Osagasu | when its directed at someone |
| 05:29.17 | Codayus | Okay, say there's two guild members in an empty zone. One insults the other on /g the other response on /say. Both report the other one. Seems odd for one to get banned but not the other? |
| 05:29.20 | Stylp1 | Cair: If it's directed at someone |
| 05:29.45 | Iriel | Codayus : If they read the rules, they'd have to deal with it. |
| 05:29.52 | Iriel | This is the problem, people dont read the rules |
| 05:29.55 | Iriel | and then get surprised |
| 05:29.58 | Nomad_W|MC | IF a tree falls in the forest, and a red headed lbrarian (36C-28-36) isn't around to hear it, does it still make a noise? |
| 05:29.58 | Codayus | I read the rules. |
| 05:30.11 | Osagasu | hmm |
| 05:30.16 | Osagasu | sounds like a friend of mine |
| 05:30.20 | Codayus | I asking if its right - not if it follows the rules. |
| 05:30.31 | Beladona | rules are rules |
| 05:30.35 | Iriel | itr's right, within the rules. |
| 05:30.39 | Beladona | you can't make them fit for certain people |
| 05:31.06 | Iriel | people calling each other names across a computer game, that's pretty petty no matter what. |
| 05:31.17 | Tain | I don't know specifically about WoW, but my experience in past games tells me that GM type people DO make rules fit for different people. |
| 05:31.25 | Iriel | that we're in a society that we NEED to ban people who can't be civil, that's a problem also |
| 05:31.34 | Beladona | well, people calling each other names over a computer period is petty |
| 05:31.47 | Depherios | games are even worse Bela |
| 05:31.53 | Iriel | Tain - that will be true, and different GM's will handle different situations differnelty. |
| 05:31.59 | Tain | But in my experience also when someone is that upset someone else knows about it. |
| 05:32.07 | Beladona | dunno, I think forums tend to be worse |
| 05:32.08 | Iriel | But blizzard Do have policies concerning escalation |
| 05:32.17 | Depherios | true |
| 05:32.37 | Iriel | The chance of you getting 'a bad GM' time and time again, is much lower than just once |
| 05:32.53 | Beladona | how many people got banned? |
| 05:32.58 | Cair | I don't know |
| 05:33.00 | Beladona | was it like several? |
| 05:33.05 | Cair | apparently |
| 05:33.15 | Tem | holy cow MC is eay |
| 05:33.19 | Beladona | sounds like a group of guys pissing on another member to me |
| 05:33.20 | Tain | Forums are really not a good example of a game's players though. It's a very small percent of people who play any game who post on the forums. |
| 05:33.22 | Tem | we are /owning/ it tonight |
| 05:33.25 | Iriel | Account Closure: Accounts are closed when a player has excessively and/or grossly violated our policies. When an account is closed, the player is no longer able to access the account. Account Closures are rare and represent a player who is unable to abide by our rules and insists on negatively affecting other players' enjoyment of the game or harming the service itself. |
| 05:33.41 | Nomad_W|MC | Were any of the banned people red headed librarians (36C-28-36)? |
| 05:33.44 | Iriel | That doesn't cover "swearing". |
| 05:33.53 | Osagasu | yes, Nomad |
| 05:33.54 | Cair | sure it does Iriel |
| 05:34.00 | Iriel | not ONCE it doesn't |
| 05:34.09 | Nomad_W|MC | Damn. Now I'm involved in this discussion. |
| 05:34.10 | Tain | Ehn, account closures seem to happen only from serious cheats or exploits though. |
| 05:34.13 | Beladona | only if that swearing extended towards another targetted player |
| 05:34.14 | Cair | you saying "fuck" negatively affects my enjoyment of the game |
| 05:34.20 | Beladona | which is considered harassment |
| 05:34.24 | Cair | (example) |
| 05:34.28 | Iriel | yes, but i'd have to INSIST on doing it |
| 05:34.31 | Nomad_W|MC | You getting reported for it 10 times will still not close yor account. |
| 05:34.38 | Beladona | and do it to piss you off |
| 05:34.42 | Iriel | which would mean i'd been warned many times and ignored it |
| 05:34.42 | Codayus | Iriel: It does. And I know of some people who have been banned for really minor stuff. And, in a couple of cases, had it overturned when they complained about GM abuse, thankfully... |
| 05:34.44 | Beladona | because we knew you hated it |
| 05:34.56 | Iriel | Codayus : I dont believe you, or them |
| 05:34.58 | Osagasu | someone telling me to fuck off only increases my enjoyment because I get to make up all sorts of witty remarks |
| 05:35.05 | Osagasu | or report them |
| 05:35.07 | Iriel | Unless it's happened to you personally, I wont belieeve you |
| 05:35.09 | Osagasu | ^^ |
| 05:35.11 | Codayus | Suit yourself. |
| 05:35.17 | Iriel | because I know how people are |
| 05:35.23 | Iriel | they'll say "I got banned for saying fuck" |
| 05:35.23 | Codayus | I wish I had as high an opinion of Bliz CS as you do. :-) |
| 05:35.35 | Iriel | when actually what happened is they told the GM to go fuck themselves when they got a warning |
| 05:35.36 | Iriel | etc |
| 05:35.36 | Beladona | don't forget, two sides of a story are rarely accurate |
| 05:35.45 | Cair | (actually,about the only swear word I can't stand is one that many women share ... 4 letters, rhymes with runt and starts with "C") |
| 05:35.48 | Beladona | it is 99.9% of the time somewhere in the middle |
| 05:36.03 | Cair | (many women share dislike of*) |
| 05:36.04 | Tain | I haven't had any explicit experience in WoW, but there have been cases of GMs in other games banning people because of personal opinions. |
| 05:36.12 | Osagasu | only by combining two sides of a story and extracting opinion can one get to facts |
| 05:36.15 | Tain | Cart? You don't like shopping? |
| 05:36.26 | Tain | Oh that doesn't rhyme with runt. |
| 05:36.33 | Stylp1 | I was thinking Can't |
| 05:36.44 | Cair | don't go there guys, that was an aside :p |
| 05:36.55 | Iriel | you should know better by now Cair 8-) |
| 05:37.06 | Tain | Cont? Yeah I agree, Lua should have a continue command for loops. It's pretty annoying that they don't. |
| 05:37.44 | Beladona | ToBe:Continued(); |
| 05:37.52 | Cair | Beladona: every story has 3 sides ... yours, mine and the truth (somewhere in the middle) |
| 05:37.54 | Depherios | ouch |
| 05:38.18 | Osagasu | I think I've heard one girl use that word. I can't remember, we were both quite drunk. How I didn't get laid that night is one of the worlds greatest unsolved mysteries. |
| 05:38.24 | Tain | Thankfully I don't change my opinion with silly things like the truth. |
| 05:38.25 | Osagasu | and that's all from me on that subject |
| 05:39.18 | Beladona | pie |
| 05:39.22 | Stylp1 | Wow, Cair, you totally derailed the discussion :D |
| 05:39.30 | Beladona | there was a discussion? |
| 05:39.33 | Cair | so, GM has the right to interfer in guild politics when said politics are carried out in raid channel? |
| 05:39.39 | Iriel | yes |
| 05:39.49 | Iriel | because the guild took their politics into a public arena |
| 05:40.02 | Iriel | Do I think the case in point is 'right' - absolutely not |
| 05:40.06 | Cair | (trying to put discussion back on track) |
| 05:40.15 | Iriel | Do I think the GM's acted in accordance with stated policy - absolutely yes |
| 05:40.21 | Nomad_W|MC | Are we still talking about Hot Librarians? |
| 05:40.32 | Iriel | You are, Nomad_W|MC, but not the rest of us |
| 05:40.38 | Cair | Nomad_W|MC: you're the *only* one that's been talking about Hot Librarians |
| 05:40.42 | Beladona | depends, does she know how to hook functions? |
| 05:40.57 | Cair | and are they embedded? |
| 05:40.57 | Nomad_W|MC | And the dewey Decimal system! |
| 05:41.03 | Beladona | lol, Cair |
| 05:41.19 | Depherios | <3 Dewey Decimal system |
| 05:41.22 | Beladona | ok that sit form me. I need sleepage |
| 05:41.32 | Cair | night Bela, sweet dreams :) |
| 05:41.34 | Beladona | wow, spelling went out the window |
| 05:41.47 | Codayus | I think GMs have the right to do it; I don't think they should. When a non-guildie joins the raid, hears the comment, and petitions a GM, then there's a problem a GM should deal with. Until then... <shrug> |
| 05:42.25 | Beladona | let me tell you what coporate says to a GM when they use their opinion to decide a matter like that Codayus |
| 05:42.34 | Iriel | The problem with that view of the world, is that it makes guild members vulnerable to victimizatoin from other guild members. |
| 05:43.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Devla (n=Devla@69.49.156.29) |
| 05:43.09 | Tain | Stupid guild members |
| 05:43.17 | Beladona | these are the guidelines you follow. You do not make decisions or take sides. There is no discrimination or favoritism |
| 05:43.18 | Cair | hey devla! |
| 05:43.19 | Codayus | Iriel: Uh, no? The comments would have been fine in /g, right? And in this case, /ra was simply a strict subset of /g, yes? |
| 05:43.27 | Devla | poke |
| 05:43.33 | Cair | *purr* |
| 05:43.44 | Devla | yikes |
| 05:43.52 | Nomad_W|MC | "/ra was simply a strict subset of /g, " |
| 05:43.52 | pagefault | oh wow |
| 05:43.54 | Codayus | Beladona: You misunderstand me. GMs should follow the rules. I was arguing that I think the rules should be different. |
| 05:43.55 | Cair | :( |
| 05:43.56 | pagefault | thats cool |
| 05:44.03 | Nomad_W|MC | "/ra was simply a strict subset of /g, " doesn't exist |
| 05:44.03 | Osagasu | Nah, Slouken is my next target |
| 05:44.04 | pagefault | windowed + "maximized" mode |
| 05:44.06 | Iriel | I believe you can happily file a harassment ticket for something said in /g |
| 05:44.07 | pagefault | I didn't know WoW could do that |
| 05:44.08 | Beladona | because someone said it was? |
| 05:44.17 | Iriel | you cannot, however, report something more generic |
| 05:44.21 | pagefault | removed the title bar |
| 05:44.30 | Iriel | and again, we never actually know what was said. |
| 05:44.33 | pagefault | but I can use dual monitors still |
| 05:45.01 | Codayus | The rules are different though - /g is "private", and /ra is not - the hypothetical I thought we were considering was a comment in /ra that would have been fine in a private context... |
| 05:45.07 | Depherios | I want dual screens |
| 05:45.10 | Depherios | BOTH for wow |
| 05:45.13 | Iriel | Well, i'm not sure if we are, we might be |
| 05:45.13 | Depherios | put stats on the other screen |
| 05:45.15 | Depherios | I want it bad |
| 05:45.20 | Depherios | :F |
| 05:45.23 | Codayus | Well, that's what I thought we were talking about. |
| 05:45.26 | Tain | ~rlart |
| 05:45.27 | Iriel | But we dont actually know |
| 05:45.28 | Codayus | I'm getting confused now. :-) |
| 05:45.29 | Ktron | pagefault: same setup here |
| 05:45.37 | Depherios | you can't Dual Screen Wow |
| 05:45.41 | Depherios | even if you resize world frame |
| 05:45.44 | Depherios | everything is short and fat |
| 05:45.53 | pagefault | yeah irc and WoW |
| 05:45.54 | pagefault | hehe |
| 05:45.56 | Iriel | Because apparently whatever was said was serious enough to warrant a permaban, and I can't reconcile these things into one coherent picture 8-) |
| 05:45.58 | Cair | the statement from Blizz was that *if it had occurred in /gu, they wouldn't have interferred, since /gu is private, but since it happened in /r" |
| 05:45.59 | Ktron | Depherios: you can put all yor UI one one though |
| 05:46.16 | Depherios | yeah, but everything is all fat and shirt though :P |
| 05:46.17 | Codayus | Okay, well, scale it back for a moment then. |
| 05:46.22 | Iriel | I believe you can say "Oh fuck, van cleef just killed me" in /g but not in /ra |
| 05:46.23 | Beladona | it boils down to this |
| 05:46.30 | Beladona | Blizz has to draw the line somewhere |
| 05:46.32 | Codayus | We have a comment which was serious enough for a permaban in /ra, but would have got no penalty at all in /g? |
| 05:46.34 | Beladona | that is where they drew it |
| 05:46.37 | Beladona | it is in the rles |
| 05:46.39 | Codayus | That seems like a weird jump. |
| 05:46.43 | Ktron | Depherios: you could set one monitor to regular ratio, and make the other monitor black with just UI, right? |
| 05:46.45 | Beladona | it is their fault for not following it |
| 05:46.46 | Ktron | I think you could |
| 05:46.51 | Depherios | Ktron: no |
| 05:47.00 | Iriel | yea Codayus , I cannot come up with any explaination fo rsuch a comment |
| 05:47.01 | Depherios | the world frame doesn't change how it's stretched |
| 05:47.04 | Tain | I don'g really agree with it Cair, but I don't really think anything is private outside of tells. And even then they can ban people |
| 05:47.27 | Iriel | But even in tells, it's all about what you do |
| 05:47.30 | Depherios | so putting the game on both screens, stretched in windowed mode, makes everything short and fat... D: |
| 05:47.33 | Ktron | Depherios: could you trick WoW into thinking it was 'taller' then? |
| 05:47.39 | Iriel | You wouldn't get banned for '/t Tain fuck, van cleef just killed me' |
| 05:47.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@c-66-229-214-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:47.44 | Depherios | well I did that, but it caused lag |
| 05:47.45 | Ktron | it'd be like being somewhat more zoomed in all the time |
| 05:47.51 | Iriel | But you probably would for some kind of graphic description of rape or somesuch |
| 05:47.54 | Depherios | I resized the window to be 4 times one monitors size |
| 05:48.02 | Tain | You possibly could if I petitioned against it, Iriel. But I don't know. |
| 05:48.02 | Codayus | *nod* |
| 05:48.05 | Depherios | and put the worldframe way up in the corner... |
| 05:48.09 | Depherios | but yeah... lag |
| 05:48.12 | Beladona | has everyone learned a valuable lesson today? If you are gonna rip someone a new poophole, make sure there is no proof |
| 05:48.15 | Ktron | Depherios: yeah, that's what I was thinking... ah, damn |
| 05:48.19 | Depherios | and if you move it or anything it resizes to fit two screens |
| 05:48.19 | Beladona | ............. |
| 05:48.24 | Depherios | and ruins it |
| 05:48.31 | Ktron | Depherios: Request dual monitor support |
| 05:48.37 | Depherios | I have |
| 05:48.45 | Tain | There really doesn't have to be proof. |
| 05:48.49 | Depherios | Slouken said to remind him later in the 1.9 topic, which made me happy |
| 05:48.50 | Iriel | Slouken said they'll look into it in the future, if they have time |
| 05:48.59 | Ktron | Heh, has anyone requested to make the Launcher work with Firefox yet? |
| 05:49.07 | Depherios | yes |
| 05:49.09 | Ktron | having the links lauch in IE annoys me |
| 05:49.12 | Depherios | ditto |
| 05:49.17 | Ktron | Any response? |
| 05:49.20 | Beladona | it should be a simple fix |
| 05:49.47 | Ktron | And if I can find your thread, I'll throw in a comment or two for chuckles |
| 05:49.59 | Depherios | lol, I didn't but tons of people have XD |
| 05:50.37 | Cair | night Bela |
| 05:51.19 | Depherios | lol |
| 05:51.21 | Depherios | G'night |
| 05:51.44 | Devla | so is there like a mad level race in the WowI guild(s)? |
| 05:51.49 | pagefault | kergoth_, nice job with the flightbar |
| 05:52.06 | pagefault | kergoth_, nice job with the flightbar |
| 05:52.10 | Cair | nope Devla |
| 05:52.23 | pagefault | kergoth_, nice job with the flightbar |
| 05:52.24 | pagefault | oops |
| 05:52.32 | pagefault | sorry about spam :( |
| 05:52.38 | pagefault | window focus got messed up |
| 05:52.40 | Cair | pagefault is a spammer! |
| 05:52.50 | Devla | ./ban |
| 05:52.52 | Iriel | Burn Him! |
| 05:53.04 | Tain | He's a witch! |
| 05:53.10 | Nomad_W|MC | Yes.. Weighs more than a Duck.. BRUN I SAY! |
| 05:53.14 | Nomad_W|MC | BURN! |
| 05:53.20 | Osagasu | my throat is dry. |
| 05:53.21 | Iriel | Weighs the same as a duck |
| 05:53.22 | Guillotine | <3 monty python |
| 05:53.31 | Osagasu | </3 Guillotine |
| 05:53.33 | Cair | made of wood! |
| 05:53.37 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@c-66-229-214-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:53.41 | Cair | weighs the same as a duck! |
| 05:53.47 | Cair | must be a witch! |
| 05:53.50 | Guillotine | ~lart Osagasu |
| 05:53.55 | Cair | LOL |
| 05:53.57 | Guillotine | buuuurned |
| 05:53.58 | Cair | errr |
| 05:54.06 | Osagasu | "We've found a witch! May we BUUUUUUUUUURN her?" |
| 05:54.26 | Cair | "She turned me into a newt" "I got better" |
| 05:55.04 | Osagasu | Brave Sir Robin ran away. Bravely ran away, away! |
| 05:55.12 | Cair | (tries to come up with some other controversy, since channel got quiet) |
| 05:55.20 | Osagasu | When danger reared its ugly head, He bravely turned his tail and fled. |
| 05:55.42 | Osagasu | Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about and gallantly he chickened out. |
| 05:55.43 | Cair | I know, it's all Devla |
| 05:55.47 | Cair | Devla's fault! |
| 05:55.53 | Cair | he arrived, everyone shut up |
| 05:55.56 | Cair | burn him! |
| 05:55.58 | Devla | buhhh? |
| 05:56.00 | Iriel | <Controversy>I heard that decursive is banned in 1.9</Controversy> |
| 05:56.07 | Cair | ~lart Iriel |
| 05:56.08 | Osagasu | Bravely taking to his feet he beat a very brave retreat, bravest of the brave, Sir Robin! |
| 05:56.10 | Nomad_Wanderer | pfft. |
| 05:56.19 | Cair | ~lart Iriel |
| 05:56.21 | ForgottenLords | Cair, do you publish Beta versions? |
| 05:56.30 | Ktron | purl, is Cair spamming? |
| 05:56.36 | Nomad_Wanderer | Nomad_Wander:setSleeping("true") |
| 05:56.37 | Cair | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/index.php?cid=34&dp=0&sh=full&so=desc&sb=lastupdate |
| 05:56.40 | Ktron | purl, just kidding |
| 05:56.51 | Guillotine | g2g guys. ttyl |
| 05:56.59 | Devla | I'm testing MiniGroup2 |
| 05:57.01 | Cair | answer your question ForgottenLords? |
| 05:57.05 | Cair | night Guillotine |
| 05:57.14 | ForgottenLords | Certainly does, thanks |
| 05:57.18 | Cair | :) |
| 05:57.31 | ForgottenLords | I'll publish mine soon |
| 05:57.37 | ForgottenLords | er, send you... |
| 06:00.37 | Cair | okay |
| 06:00.43 | Iriel | Out of interest, since I dont actually enjoy playing a paladin, what's the general sentiment about the pally talent changes? |
| 06:01.27 | Devla | not sure |
| 06:01.33 | Cair | no idea, don't play a pally and haven't a clue what the talents were/will be |
| 06:01.34 | Devla | their tier 2 looks rad |
| 06:01.47 | Iriel | I haven't seen anyone marchaing around with 'Nerf Paladin' banners yet |
| 06:01.52 | Iriel | but I may just not be looking |
| 06:01.58 | Iriel | so I wondered if they were a dud or something |
| 06:02.11 | Ktron | We had this convos a few days ago here actually Iriel, let's see if I can remember the ending sentiments |
| 06:02.15 | Iriel | (Aside: Who is on Draka, and if so, which side) ? |
| 06:02.35 | Devla | I'm on horde right now |
| 06:02.53 | Cair | I just logged out, since there was no one on, and the chat in here was hopping |
| 06:03.03 | Cair | Devla, been guilded yet? |
| 06:03.08 | Devla | nay |
| 06:03.11 | Iriel | Different keyboards, I can keep up 8-) |
| 06:03.14 | Iriel | Devla : Send a tell to Toc |
| 06:03.17 | Cair | logging in Cair .. |
| 06:03.18 | Iriel | I'll invite ya |
| 06:03.21 | Cair | or, that |
| 06:03.27 | Devla | ok |
| 06:03.30 | Ktron | I think the conclusions were okay changes, they're going to 'feel' worse than they really are, and that no one should complain about dps, as paladins are healer-tanks and shouldn't expect to have the dps of most classes |
| 06:04.14 | Iriel | *nod* |
| 06:04.21 | Ktron | Heh, And lastly, people were disappointed that paladins couldn't spec more in dps, as almost every class, even priests, can |
| 06:04.27 | Ktron | (if not every class) |
| 06:06.51 | Osagasu | I managed to get relative high DPS on a paladin |
| 06:07.15 | Iriel | Maybe this is a sign that they've finally got the hang of balanced talent trees |
| 06:07.40 | Osagasu | or theoretically high DPS |
| 06:07.56 | Osagasu | nono... theoretically relatively high |
| 06:08.55 | Ktron | Depherios: here's an idea-- make your computer blink the WoW window from monitor to monitor as fast as it can, and make a addon for WoW to change your camera angle accordingly to get a 'landscape' view over the two monitors |
| 06:09.07 | Depherios | ........ |
| 06:09.13 | Depherios | I don't want the landscape view XD |
| 06:09.16 | Depherios | I want the game in one screen |
| 06:09.18 | Ktron | heck, if you could get the blinking up to 30 bps or so, you wouldn't really notice, would you?:) |
| 06:09.21 | Depherios | and UI in the other XD |
| 06:09.39 | Ktron | then make the mod turn on and off the world view |
| 06:09.46 | Ktron | and off and on your UI |
| 06:10.05 | Ktron | heh... I think that's about as ridiculous a solution as I can think of |
| 06:10.23 | Iriel | I have another one |
| 06:10.27 | Iriel | Buy a 2nd account |
| 06:10.40 | Iriel | Make that one have a hidden world frame, and then relay all the data fro myour first account to the 2nd |
| 06:10.42 | Iriel | and display it there |
| 06:11.21 | pagefault | warlocks got stuff out of the pally whining |
| 06:11.25 | pagefault | our mount has a way less mana cost now |
| 06:11.33 | Depherios | lol |
| 06:11.45 | Depherios | meanwhile my dispell costs more *sigh* |
| 06:11.46 | pagefault | was high for both pally and us too |
| 06:11.52 | Iriel | Sweet, in 36 levels time i'll be set! |
| 06:11.54 | pagefault | but we get the same thing |
| 06:11.55 | Ktron | Hm... you might be able to make an external program write output to a file in an addon directory, then write an addon to check the text file for events |
| 06:12.31 | Iriel | You can't |
| 06:12.33 | Ktron | though, I suppose your external program would have to send keybinding presses into WoW or something like that too to be able to trigger buttons |
| 06:13.16 | Ktron | why not Iriel? |
| 06:13.21 | Depherios | no way to get data out of WoW |
| 06:13.23 | Depherios | none at all |
| 06:13.24 | Iriel | No real-time I/O |
| 06:13.26 | Depherios | without a reloadui |
| 06:13.39 | Ktron | we only need data in... on real time data in even? |
| 06:13.40 | Ktron | pff |
| 06:13.42 | Depherios | which is why every third character you see isn't a bot |
| 06:13.51 | Ktron | good call |
| 06:14.01 | Depherios | precisely |
| 06:14.05 | Depherios | that was why I didn't play SWG |
| 06:14.15 | Ktron | sometimes I forget the obvious reasons there's limitations of ui limitations |
| 06:14.34 | Depherios | there's ways to send data out... but they aren't easy |
| 06:15.09 | Ktron | heh, scratch my idea for a 'current track playing' addon |
| 06:16.24 | Ktron | I think my two current addon projects is a decent framefinder/frameinspector/frameeditor program... heh, I feel like there's shortfalls to both MoveAnything and Visor, and I think that they are good conceptually |
| 06:16.58 | Ktron | and the other is easier, and possibly implemented though I haven't seen it-- an 'away' message system for WoW |
| 06:17.34 | Ktron | just basically puts the user into an autoreply mode |
| 06:17.47 | Depherios | why not just use /afk |
| 06:18.09 | Ktron | you can't provide details besides away at all with /afk, can you? |
| 06:18.15 | Depherios | yeah |
| 06:18.21 | Depherios | use /afk message |
| 06:18.32 | Depherios | I think O_o |
| 06:18.40 | Ktron | apparently I have been talking to the wrong people if that does that |
| 06:18.51 | Ktron | and... this is why |
| 06:18.53 | Ktron | ~ktron |
| 06:18.55 | purl | it has been said that ktron is dangerous. He doesn't really know what he is doing. Stop him. |
| 06:18.57 | Depherios | I use /afk message -- and I think I've seen replies |
| 06:19.16 | Cair | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:19.28 | Cair | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:19.57 | Ktron | Does dnd persist through actions? |
| 06:20.05 | Depherios | yes |
| 06:20.08 | Tem | damnit! |
| 06:20.12 | Tem | It's tank night in MC |
| 06:20.14 | Depherios | as does /afk if you don't turn it off |
| 06:20.15 | Tem | and I'm a mage |
| 06:20.18 | Ktron | heh, ah wall |
| 06:20.19 | Depherios | err don't turn on the options |
| 06:20.25 | Cair | if you go to interface options and turn off "auto clear afk" |
| 06:20.51 | Osagasu | nini |
| 06:20.54 | Cair | night Osagasu |
| 06:21.21 | Ktron | heh... time to shush up for a while, though I imagine there's at least a little humor for you people in seeing someone not even know all of what the current UI does |
| 06:21.42 | Ktron | I'm heading afk for a little bit, back later, maybe I'll make a horde character on Draka if people are still up |
| 06:21.47 | Cair | meh, if you haven't had reason to look, why would you know? |
| 06:21.56 | Cair | later Ktron |
| 06:22.23 | Ktron | I suppose |
| 06:22.25 | Depherios | here's an addon idea |
| 06:22.35 | Depherios | anybody make an addon that adds up /played across characters? |
| 06:23.14 | Iriel | I did some of one |
| 06:23.16 | Iriel | yes |
| 06:23.41 | Depherios | I should make it myself anyway... I need the practice, and that sounds simple enough XD |
| 06:23.48 | Devla | oh hey, what was up with that server name change nonsense |
| 06:25.05 | Cair | okay, stick a fork in me, I'm done |
| 06:25.07 | Cair | night all |
| 06:25.19 | Devla | me too |
| 06:25.22 | Devla | c yas |
| 06:25.28 | Iriel | Night cair |
| 06:25.52 | Iriel | Depherios : The trick is obtaining the played time cleanly |
| 06:25.56 | Iriel | and even that's not that hard |
| 06:25.59 | sarf|sleep | G'night Cair! |
| 06:26.09 | Depherios | yeah |
| 06:33.01 | Tekkub | *grumble* |
| 06:33.08 | sarf|morning | Eh? |
| 06:33.24 | Tekkub | I hate stupid people that have suggestions about the game mechanics and think it belongs in the UI forum |
| 06:33.31 | sarf|morning | Ah. |
| 06:33.33 | sarf|morning | Those. |
| 06:33.36 | Tekkub | stupid annoying suggestions at that |
| 06:33.41 | Tekkub | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?ForumName=wow-interface-customization&ThreadID=276741 |
| 06:35.07 | sarf|morning | Actually, there are spells you can cast at things that aren't in your targetNearest cone |
| 06:35.30 | sarf|morning | (most instant damage spells) |
| 06:36.05 | ForgottenLords | wheeeee! |
| 06:36.24 | Iriel | aimed shot, also |
| 06:36.59 | sarf|morning | Go ForgottenLords! |
| 06:37.30 | kergoth_ | pagefault: hm? |
| 06:37.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge slouken (n=slouken@ip68-5-42-243.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 06:37.49 | ForgottenLords | oh, wow |
| 06:37.56 | ForgottenLords | howdy |
| 06:38.02 | sarf|morning | 'lo |
| 06:38.06 | slouken | Hello, just stopped by to say "hello" :) |
| 06:38.14 | Iriel | Cair, not asleep yet, why am I not surpriseD? |
| 06:38.28 | pagefault | kergoth_, for some reason aceperl frames are not listening to the UI scale settings when I first login |
| 06:38.51 | pagefault | I have to reset it every time I run the program for the aceperl frames to scale properly |
| 06:38.55 | kergoth_ | pagefault: you know you can scale the aceperl frames manually, right? |
| 06:38.59 | Cair | cause I always do one last check of the sites before I pass out :p |
| 06:39.07 | Iriel | pagefault : you have to scale after PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD |
| 06:39.08 | pagefault | kergoth_, I was not aware |
| 06:39.10 | kergoth_ | i mean, not the overall ui scale, the aceperl frames can be scaled independently |
| 06:39.13 | kergoth_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:39.16 | ForgottenLords | ... but... but... what if I put malicious code in it??? |
| 06:39.20 | Iriel | Otherwise the re-scaling of things ot your monitor screws them up |
| 06:39.24 | ForgottenLords | ;) |
| 06:39.29 | pagefault | ah ok |
| 06:39.35 | pagefault | I have conflicting scales |
| 06:39.36 | pagefault | :) |
| 06:39.37 | Iriel | ForgottenLords : Then she kills you, and we eatyour flesh |
| 06:39.39 | Cair | I checked it before I approved it FL |
| 06:39.57 | Iriel | pagefault : I suspect 1.9 will make scaling happier once everyone gets over the change |
| 06:39.59 | ForgottenLords | hehe, thanks. |
| 06:40.12 | ForgottenLords | anyhow, talk to everyone tomorrow! |
| 06:40.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka (i=krka@c80-216-103-22.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 06:41.57 | Cair|sleep | really gone now ... not only that, I'm leaving ... night all |
| 06:42.52 | slouken | *wave* bed looks mighty good to me as well... |
| 06:42.59 | Depherios | minispellbook broke O_o |
| 06:44.11 | sarf|morning | sleep well ForgottenLords |
| 06:44.11 | *** part/#wowi-lounge slouken (n=slouken@ip68-5-42-243.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 06:48.19 | Depherios | Hellooo |
| 06:53.22 | Depherios | oh... that was left |
| 06:53.24 | Depherios | hi I'm smart |
| 06:53.37 | Depherios | I hate the way Trillian colors joins and parts the same, it messes with my head |
| 06:53.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Disco (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 06:54.21 | Depherios | hlloo |
| 06:54.28 | Depherios | with an e |
| 06:55.31 | Iriel | Damn guild wars, why can't they put the character level on the login screen? Would it be THAT hard? |
| 06:59.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kremonte (n=help@ool-18bba4ea.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 06:59.47 | kremonte | anyone mind explaining how the item cache works? i really don't get it >_< |
| 07:00.14 | kremonte | ie, i had 8 pieces of nemesis in my cache on sunday, now i only have 6 |
| 07:00.37 | Iriel | There was a patch on tuesday, so maybe that's why they're gone |
| 07:00.57 | kremonte | it has something to do with the server? |
| 07:00.58 | Iriel | There is SOME mechanic by which things leave your cache, I dont kno wif it's based on time, or size, or what |
| 07:01.06 | kremonte | bah, lol |
| 07:02.04 | Iriel | but it's entirely possible it gets logically flushed after a server patch |
| 07:02.18 | Iriel | Would that make sense? have you seen 6 pieces since tuesday? |
| 07:03.05 | kremonte | well, what i read was what the SERVER has seen |
| 07:03.21 | kremonte | i know it's not only items i have seen linked, or inspected, because i had the full 10storms set at once point (and i am alliance) |
| 07:03.41 | kremonte | so i am *guessing* it has something to do with what you have seen at SOME point, and the server has seen since restart? |
| 07:04.11 | kremonte | but then, i also wonder why i don't have the same cache on my warlock as i have my hunter, or my warrior, yet i only *see* one file |
| 07:05.53 | Iriel | Your item cache SHOULD be shared by all your characters |
| 07:06.04 | Iriel | though every time you interact with the world it could change |
| 07:06.10 | Iriel | Again, I think it's limited to a finite size |
| 07:06.20 | Iriel | so I it holds all the items you've received from the server 'recently' |
| 07:06.23 | kremonte | well, i'm not completely sure on it, but i recall recently logging on my hunter and not have The Unstoppable Force in my cache |
| 07:06.32 | kremonte | but i had it the same day on my warlock |
| 07:06.42 | pagefault | isn't there a quest hub in northern feralas? |
| 07:07.02 | kremonte | i just got owned by someone named 'pagefault' in CoD2 ._. |
| 07:07.10 | pagefault | wasn't me |
| 07:07.19 | kremonte | your evil twin is a sniper =/ |
| 07:07.33 | kremonte | hmm interesting, i JUST got the 8th pc nemesis in my cache |
| 07:08.35 | sweede | we got the first horde side full t-2 set last night on our server :) |
| 07:08.45 | kremonte | grats ;) |
| 07:14.40 | Depherios | blizz needs to make it so you can tell what you have targetted underwater |
| 07:18.23 | pagefault | kergoth_, how may I add custom items to autobar |
| 07:18.25 | Tem | booya |
| 07:18.25 | Tem | 5 bosses |
| 07:18.25 | Tem | first pull |
| 07:18.50 | sweede | ? |
| 07:20.43 | kergoth_ | pagefault: /autobar config ? :P |
| 07:21.10 | kergoth_ | pagefault: add items to one of the custom categories, then pick the custom category for one of the slots |
| 07:21.17 | pagefault | ah ok |
| 07:21.37 | kergoth_ | have to add by name, make sure you get the caps correct |
| 07:21.44 | pagefault | ah blah |
| 07:21.49 | pagefault | I thought it was drag and drop |
| 07:21.50 | pagefault | hehe |
| 07:22.18 | kergoth_ | as tim riker would say, patches welcome. |
| 07:22.23 | kergoth_ | :P |
| 07:23.21 | pagefault | I am trying to learn the UI |
| 07:23.23 | pagefault | is it complicated? |
| 07:25.08 | sarf|morning | There's no "this object was dropped onto you" event |
| 07:25.33 | sarf|morning | there's an event "something was dropped on you. good luck, smartypants" |
| 07:25.57 | sarf|morning | For you to know what got dropped on you, you must monitor PickupSpell / Inventory / action |
| 07:26.00 | sarf|morning | or so I think |
| 07:26.41 | kergoth_ | pagefault: the UI stuff is a breeze. lua is incredibly easy to pick up. it's quite a bit like ruby, syntax wise. |
| 07:27.37 | sarf|morning | Yes. |
| 07:27.55 | sarf|morning | The way Lua, XML and Blizzards events interact can be a bit clunky at times. |
| 07:28.12 | kergoth_ | thatd be the polite way of putting it |
| 07:29.38 | pagefault | I am tring to edit my catagories |
| 07:29.41 | pagefault | but I can't edit them |
| 07:29.47 | pagefault | it says click to edit but nothing works |
| 07:30.02 | kergoth_ | pagefault: click on one of the entries. |
| 07:30.07 | kergoth_ | (Entry #2 empty) or whatever |
| 07:30.16 | kergoth_ | that opens a dialog to input the item name |
| 07:30.30 | kergoth_ | you can add however many items to each custom category |
| 07:30.32 | kergoth_ | works pretty well |
| 07:30.59 | pagefault | it doesn't open anything for me |
| 07:31.24 | kergoth_ | well dunno what to tell you. works flawlessly here. i just did it 30 seconds ago |
| 07:31.36 | pagefault | why would that be |
| 07:31.41 | pagefault | I am using the exact same SVN as you |
| 07:32.35 | kergoth_ | i dunno, thats weird |
| 07:32.40 | kergoth_ | dont have any local changes to autobar here |
| 07:32.58 | pagefault | please add shardtracker titan mod too :) |
| 07:33.06 | kergoth_ | k |
| 07:33.10 | pagefault | although I think by 1.9 |
| 07:33.19 | pagefault | I will have that "shardbag" |
| 07:33.33 | pagefault | so nm |
| 07:33.38 | pagefault | I will just add it manually for now |
| 07:34.28 | pagefault | I need your visor file too :) |
| 07:37.07 | kergoth_ | pagefault: kergoth.com/files/Visor.lua |
| 07:37.22 | pagefault | thanks |
| 07:37.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cair (n=Cairenn@CPE001217452e29-CM014500004571.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 07:37.25 | *** mode/#WoWI-lounge [+o Cair] by ChanServ |
| 07:37.39 | pagefault | show off :) |
| 07:37.51 | kergoth_ | :P |
| 07:41.27 | futrtrubl | I gather that I can't just remove a frame's handler, instead I would have to SetScript to an empty function? |
| 07:42.20 | sarf|morning | Methinks so yes. |
| 07:42.54 | futrtrubl | oh well ;'] |
| 07:45.17 | Tem | hmm arcanist gloves |
| 07:45.20 | Tem | should I care? |
| 07:45.31 | Tem | oh and that's the 6th boss tonight |
| 07:51.02 | futrtrubl | ooh, I can set the handler to nil to remove it ;'] |
| 07:53.34 | sweede | tem , in mc i take ? |
| 07:58.58 | Tem | yeah |
| 07:59.03 | Tem | this is our 3rd instance |
| 07:59.13 | Tem | we're about to finish the first 8 bosses :) |
| 07:59.28 | Tem | (most of us had never been to MC before 3 weeks ago) |
| 08:00.04 | Tem | (and NONE of us had any gear from previous trips) |
| 08:00.06 | Tem | so um |
| 08:00.10 | Tem | we're uber |
| 08:00.14 | futrtrubl | any used SetScript? how do I pass the new script function arguments like the elapsed time of an OnUpdate? |
| 08:00.24 | futrtrubl | anyone* |
| 08:00.48 | futrtrubl | and that's arguments to the new script function |
| 08:00.50 | Tem | what do you mean? |
| 08:01.12 | Tem | just reference the global |
| 08:01.40 | futrtrubl | like arg1 for OnUpdate? |
| 08:01.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (i=MoonWolf@ip51ccaa81.speed.planet.nl) |
| 08:03.57 | futrtrubl | didn't realise those were globals, seems... odd |
| 08:06.48 | MoonWolf | do no go expecting sanity on blizzards part kergoth always tells me. |
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| 08:12.49 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Industrial (n=tom@gateway.is.remotion.nl) |
| 08:13.04 | Tem | futrtrubl: yeah |
| 08:13.08 | Tem | they are globals |
| 08:13.19 | Tem | arg1 for the elapsed in OnUpdate |
| 08:13.29 | Tem | event for the event in an OnEvent handler |
| 08:16.57 | sweede | MC is easy. :) |
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| 08:21.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka|work (n=kristofe@66.217.181.62.in-addr.dgcsystems.net) |
| 08:22.02 | Ktron | late late evening everyone |
| 08:22.28 | sweede | i went through MC today as a priest for the first time. |
| 08:22.33 | sweede | having never played a priest before :) |
| 08:22.51 | Ktron | playing on someone else's account? |
| 08:22.59 | sweede | a guy in the guild quit playing. |
| 08:23.20 | Ktron | and he gave up his account until it expired to the guild? crazy |
| 08:23.48 | Kalroth | why? |
| 08:23.49 | sweede | he quit playing, so we took it over ya. |
| 08:24.02 | Ktron | I guess it makes sense, just never heard of people doing that before |
| 08:26.24 | sweede | heh |
| 08:26.25 | Kalroth | I've done it in all games I've played :) |
| 08:26.26 | sweede | so, this priest used to have an alt that had a similar name, but its since been deleted. his alts in the guild and he hasnt been on in a month. i sent him some gold, how long before i get it back ? |
| 08:26.28 | RasmusKL | 30 days. |
| 08:26.28 | Kalroth | 30 days |
| 08:26.28 | sweede | suck. |
| 08:26.28 | RasmusKL | unless mail get deleted with the character. |
| 08:26.28 | RasmusKL | I'm not sure though. |
| 08:26.29 | Ktron | no, you should get it back... though, I wonder if you remade that character |
| 08:26.29 | Ktron | whether you'd get the mail |
| 08:26.29 | sweede | no, i've deleted a char i've sent mail too and its returned |
| 08:26.43 | sweede | see, thats the thing, is that the char isnt on the select screen, but the mail didnt give me a char not found. |
| 08:26.50 | RasmusKL | I think mails are sent using a unique id, not names Ktron :-) |
| 08:26.56 | RasmusKL | But that'd only be my guess. |
| 08:28.29 | Ktron | you're probably right, but it might not be a bad thing to try |
| 08:28.47 | Ktron | make the character, login, log out, wait a day or two, and check |
| 08:29.03 | sweede | heh |
| 08:29.13 | sweede | the guys got 10 chars on this server.. |
| 08:29.52 | Tem | yeah well, you have to admit taking out all 8 bosses in our second week of MC is impressive |
| 08:30.00 | Tem | and tonight is our third week |
| 08:30.10 | Tem | we just took out sulfuron a few minutes ago |
| 08:30.14 | Tem | heading towards golemagg |
| 08:30.22 | Tem | for the 8th boss in one night |
| 08:30.35 | sweede | all dr00d loot ? |
| 08:30.47 | Ktron | The last two tend to give people by far more trouble than the rest combined |
| 08:30.58 | Tem | the last 2 are the easiest! |
| 08:31.12 | Tem | we killed golemagg first try |
| 08:31.17 | Tem | sulfuron second |
| 08:31.24 | Tem | shazz gave us the most trouble |
| 08:31.29 | Tem | we wiped like 3 or 4 times |
| 08:31.54 | Ktron | I meant 9 and 10 |
| 08:32.01 | sweede | when they added 16 debuff, it made MC like, 100x easier |
| 08:32.03 | Ktron | Exec and Rag |
| 08:32.15 | Tem | oh well yeah |
| 08:32.41 | Tem | only reason we aren't going for domo tonight is because we don't have the quest done yet >< |
| 08:32.48 | sweede | heh |
| 08:32.51 | Tem | that's how young my guild is in MC |
| 08:33.26 | Kalroth | hahah |
| 08:34.57 | Kalroth | well if you follow some of the material there's available online, then MC up to Rag isn't that hard |
| 08:35.12 | Kalroth | (of course, I wouldn't want to do it with a PUG :) |
| 08:35.47 | sweede | our server has a pug on nef |
| 08:36.12 | Kalroth | no ordinairy pug then |
| 08:36.12 | Industrial | pug? |
| 08:36.18 | Ktron | Hey, LUA question.... is `newprint = print` or `newprint() = print()` valid? |
| 08:36.23 | sweede | no, they call themselves KuG |
| 08:36.48 | sweede | started out as a pickup to learn and kill onyxia, then they went to MC and from there turned into KuG |
| 08:36.50 | Industrial | function newprint() print() end |
| 08:36.58 | Industrial | function newprint(a) print(a) end |
| 08:36.59 | Industrial | :p |
| 08:37.25 | Ktron | Industrial: that's not quite what I want-- I want to know whether I can set a new refence for the same function |
| 08:37.26 | Industrial | whats a pug, whats a KuG ? |
| 08:37.30 | Tem | Ktron: what are you trying to do? |
| 08:37.39 | Tem | pug = pick up group |
| 08:37.41 | Ktron | Tem: Industrial: ^^ |
| 08:37.42 | sweede | Pick up Group, Kug is Koalition of Uber Guilds |
| 08:37.57 | Ktron | I'm curious whether I can set a second refence for a function, |
| 08:38.00 | Vallerius | someoldfunc = mynewshinyfunc is valid, assuming you've defined mynewshinyfunc elsewhere |
| 08:38.02 | Industrial | pff, why not just call it a "group"? or "party" ? |
| 08:38.12 | sweede | or raid :) |
| 08:38.15 | Ktron | Vallerius: yeah, that's what I was hoping |
| 08:38.19 | Industrial | yeah |
| 08:38.24 | Depherios | a PUG is formed of people with no previous history |
| 08:38.25 | Industrial | all these useless abbreviations |
| 08:38.33 | sweede | deph, more or less |
| 08:38.34 | Industrial | yea and? :P |
| 08:38.39 | Depherios | if you're not in a guild, you're stuck with PUGs |
| 08:38.47 | Tem | Ktron: yes you can set a secondary reference |
| 08:38.47 | Industrial | no, with groups |
| 08:38.48 | Kalroth | Depherios: PUG is anything non-guild |
| 08:38.48 | Industrial | :P |
| 08:38.57 | Depherios | yes... |
| 08:38.59 | Industrial | see? |
| 08:39.01 | Industrial | useless |
| 08:39.07 | Depherios | lol |
| 08:39.07 | sweede | the guilds in KuG are small like, 5-10 person guilds of freinds, |
| 08:39.17 | Ktron | And LUA is a scripting language, i.e. filelength affects loadspeeds, right? |
| 08:39.26 | sweede | a couple of them are only 2-3 person. |
| 08:39.32 | Industrial | Ktron: sort of |
| 08:41.01 | Ktron | I'm debating whether, say, I did something like `msg = DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage;` and the replacements throughout, I'd improve readability and improve (or at least not worsen) the load from the addon |
| 08:43.29 | Industrial | Ktron: well, i'd say go object oriented |
| 08:43.39 | Ktron | ?? |
| 08:43.43 | Industrial | e.g. your addon/frames is the object, and it has a method that prints |
| 08:44.01 | Industrial | if the addon/frame recieves a call to print it uses its function, not just some "unrelated" other function |
| 08:44.17 | Industrial | and if you often use the same function in alot of addons, you can share it |
| 08:44.27 | Industrial | and save resources \o/ |
| 08:45.40 | Ktron | Industrial: I think at some point I'll bother trying to understand the existing Ace functions... heh, it might be a 'try it out with Warmup and tell us' thing too |
| 08:45.53 | Ktron | (the second reference and replacement idea) |
| 08:46.04 | Industrial | *shrug* :) |
| 08:47.47 | Industrial | a={foo=function(self, baz) ace:print(baz) end} |
| 08:47.52 | Industrial | a.foo(a, 'lol') |
| 08:47.58 | Industrial | a:foo('lol') |
| 08:48.01 | Industrial | these are the same |
| 08:48.02 | Industrial | :) |
| 08:48.15 | Industrial | i love that about lua :O |
| 08:49.16 | AnduinLothar | so, did we lose iriel and legorol? |
| 08:49.39 | Industrial | yup |
| 08:49.40 | Industrial | :D |
| 08:50.55 | Ktron | purl, party |
| 08:50.57 | purl | Woohoo! Bot on the loose! |
| 08:51.04 | Ktron | purl, serve refreshments |
| 08:51.05 | purl | ACTION hastens to serve refreshments to everyone. |
| 08:51.09 | Ktron | purl, dance |
| 08:51.11 | purl | "ah, ah, ah, ah, stayin' alive, stayin' alive" |
| 08:52.44 | AnduinLothar | bummer, was hoping to see some objectToString/stringToObject enhancements |
| 08:53.06 | Industrial | o_O |
| 08:53.31 | AnduinLothar | leg, iriel and I were workign on optimizing Sea earlier |
| 08:54.53 | AnduinLothar | looks liek they rewrote 5 functions in Sea.string and 4 from Sea.math plus the 3 from Sea.util I was working on |
| 08:55.38 | krka|work | will anyone use my split-optimization? : |
| 08:55.44 | Ktron | AnduinLothar: would I learn much from looking through Sea? I'm a little rough around the edges with LUA yet |
| 08:56.30 | AnduinLothar | actually krka we opted for different changes to split and used ur split suggestions to optimize the more specific getValue and setValue |
| 08:56.53 | krka|work | hm, i don't follow |
| 08:57.29 | krka|work | why different changes to split? did you find something that worked even better? |
| 08:57.56 | AnduinLothar | ktron, probably. easiest just to grab some code that you know what it does and reverse engineer it. it can be sea if you want. there are example usages in the comments. |
| 08:58.35 | AnduinLothar | krka, your option didn't allow for regex in the sepperator or wide enough flexability |
| 08:58.56 | Ktron | AnduinLothar: and curse-gaming, right? |
| 08:58.57 | AnduinLothar | but it was ideal for get/setValue that only searches for a '.' |
| 08:59.03 | krka|work | yes it does |
| 08:59.16 | krka|work | my final version also used regexps |
| 08:59.25 | AnduinLothar | ktron, it's on cures but a more updated version can be found in the cosmos core package |
| 08:59.55 | Ktron | AnduinLothar: k, thanks |
| 09:00.03 | AnduinLothar | keep in mind that some of the code has been optimized and might be harder to read |
| 09:00.41 | AnduinLothar | we're updating it for optimal performance, where as it used to be pretty strait foward |
| 09:01.22 | AnduinLothar | krka, i had to leave when leg and iriel were going over split, lemme post what they came up with |
| 09:01.34 | krka|work | sure |
| 09:01.48 | krka|work | I made a pastebin-submission, but I can't find it now |
| 09:02.00 | AnduinLothar | http://wow.pastebin.com/453752 |
| 09:02.39 | AnduinLothar | basicy the same as what we had except lcoalizing a few repeated table calls |
| 09:02.46 | krka|work | here's mine: http://pastebin.com/453147 |
| 09:03.35 | krka|work | table.insert is still slower... |
| 09:04.12 | AnduinLothar | btw, i dont recommend using var == nil |
| 09:04.18 | krka|work | and you don't need to use table.getn twice |
| 09:04.27 | AnduinLothar | we encourage using (not var) |
| 09:04.40 | krka|work | not exactly the same thing though |
| 09:04.53 | AnduinLothar | no, but you should be encluding false as well |
| 09:04.55 | krka|work | i suppose you want to use true / false |
| 09:05.07 | krka|work | sure, then not var is better |
| 09:05.12 | krka|work | the main points are not using table.insert |
| 09:05.24 | AnduinLothar | you're still using setn |
| 09:05.25 | krka|work | and don't use table.getn twice |
| 09:05.38 | krka|work | yes |
| 09:05.57 | Depherios | ...why do people feel the need to "help" you when you don't need help? |
| 09:06.11 | krka|work | optimizing stuff is fun :) |
| 09:06.20 | Depherios | I'm not talking buffs. or even heals... why do they feel the need to help you "kill" your mob |
| 09:06.21 | Ktron | besides minimizing function calls, is there some way of knowing which functions take more or less memory/run faster or slower? |
| 09:06.23 | Depherios | ... I mean in game XD |
| 09:06.33 | Ktron | Like, I'm thinking some kind of index for them somewhere |
| 09:06.35 | AnduinLothar | well it was either call getn twice or call it when you dont need it |
| 09:06.40 | krka|work | Ktron, run it 100000 times and time it |
| 09:06.46 | Ktron | lol |
| 09:06.48 | Depherios | lol |
| 09:06.57 | Ktron | I'm assuming you do this with a lua intrepreter |
| 09:07.00 | krka|work | yes |
| 09:07.02 | AnduinLothar | he's not kidiing |
| 09:07.11 | Ktron | It makes sense |
| 09:07.18 | krka|work | lua virtual machine actually :) |
| 09:08.10 | AnduinLothar | krka, have you profiled tinsert against manual insertion and setn? |
| 09:08.19 | krka|work | yes |
| 09:08.24 | krka|work | manual wins |
| 09:08.27 | krka|work | by a lot |
| 09:08.48 | krka|work | the total function was slower by a factor of 2 with tinsert |
| 09:09.09 | AnduinLothar | do me a favor and profile both your code and the code i posted against eachother |
| 09:09.11 | krka|work | (I am not sure I understand how setn/getn really works so my setn might not be needed) |
| 09:09.22 | krka|work | ok |
| 09:09.51 | AnduinLothar | you will need to eventually use setn before you pass the table |
| 09:10.40 | AnduinLothar | i'm confused why u have the noPurge check in the while loop tho |
| 09:12.12 | krka|work | 2.3s vs 3.6s |
| 09:12.32 | krka|work | why not have it there? |
| 09:12.57 | Ktron | AnduinLothar: what do you use to time it? |
| 09:13.03 | Ktron | or anyone, really |
| 09:13.07 | krka|work | os.clock() |
| 09:13.11 | AnduinLothar | onyl reason i see to have it there is so you can use a while loop |
| 09:13.46 | krka|work | here is my test code: http://pastebin.com/453759 |
| 09:13.51 | AnduinLothar | where as a repeat loop does the if start check itself |
| 09:13.56 | AnduinLothar | at the end |
| 09:14.48 | krka|work | yeah |
| 09:15.05 | krka|work | that doesn't matter much, mostly a matter of preference |
| 09:15.47 | AnduinLothar | ok, so is the 3rd return arg of strfind nil if it doesn't find anything? |
| 09:16.06 | krka|work | if you mean string.find then yes |
| 09:16.12 | krka|work | that's how you do the check too? |
| 09:16.20 | AnduinLothar | strfind is the WoW eqiv |
| 09:16.26 | AnduinLothar | yes |
| 09:16.35 | krka|work | so why do you ask? :) |
| 09:16.49 | AnduinLothar | jsut wondering if the difference in code made a diff |
| 09:17.01 | AnduinLothar | but you didn't start with sea code i spose |
| 09:17.01 | krka|work | hm, i could swear that wow also had string.find but I suppose I was wrong |
| 09:17.09 | AnduinLothar | it has both |
| 09:17.20 | krka|work | is strfind different and/or better? |
| 09:17.39 | AnduinLothar | strfind is global, string.find is a global plus a table index |
| 09:17.39 | krka|work | local tinsert = tinsert; |
| 09:17.48 | krka|work | is tinsert also globally defined? |
| 09:17.53 | AnduinLothar | yes |
| 09:17.56 | krka|work | i see |
| 09:18.07 | AnduinLothar | assigns a global to a local for faster access |
| 09:18.22 | AnduinLothar | do one would care except that code is called Extremely often |
| 09:18.39 | AnduinLothar | so any tiny bit helps |
| 09:19.26 | krka|work | yes, I get that part :) |
| 09:20.43 | pagefault | yay |
| 09:20.48 | pagefault | have all mats for epic mount now |
| 09:20.55 | pagefault | just have to turn them in and then go to scholo |
| 09:23.14 | krka|work | you're going to build an epic mount from materials? |
| 09:23.20 | krka|work | must be a gnome epic then |
| 09:23.25 | AnduinLothar | pally |
| 09:24.02 | AnduinLothar | last pally epic quest is in rattlegore's room summoning a death kngiht |
| 09:24.39 | AnduinLothar | u have the scryer already pagefault? |
| 09:24.50 | pagefault | scryer? |
| 09:25.01 | AnduinLothar | ur a pally, right? |
| 09:25.05 | pagefault | no |
| 09:25.06 | pagefault | warlock |
| 09:25.13 | AnduinLothar | ah. then nvm |
| 09:28.27 | pagefault | scryer = 150g? |
| 09:28.50 | AnduinLothar | ya, the first part |
| 09:28.57 | pagefault | ah |
| 09:28.59 | pagefault | it's stardust for us |
| 09:29.29 | AnduinLothar | then u have to use it against some ghosts and combine with some other mats before you can use it to summon the death knight |
| 09:29.46 | pagefault | oh |
| 09:29.55 | pagefault | ours is we have to take an imp to a lab in scholomance |
| 09:29.57 | AnduinLothar | and u need a saddle/riding equipment too |
| 09:30.16 | AnduinLothar | which is mats+fee to the crafter |
| 09:31.48 | AnduinLothar | and then you need to get the saddle/bardings blessed by the equine spirit from DM, which you have to feed with enriched mana feed bought expensively from a chick in southshore after bringing her some argent dawn buscuits and doing a quest for her |
| 09:33.41 | AnduinLothar | then you have to take the upgraded scryer (equipped with a pristine black and azer diamonds) and the blessed bardings through a 5man scholo, clear the razorgore room and suffer through 4 waves of uber ghosts that each have one judgement weakness, then fight the Death Knight |
| 09:34.02 | AnduinLothar | longest quest line ever |
| 09:34.12 | AnduinLothar | and most expensive |
| 09:34.35 | Ktron | AnduinLothar: I'm looking over split-- specifying noPurge, is that specifying overwriting w/o clearing or appending? |
| 09:34.51 | krka|work | overwriting w/o clearing |
| 09:35.01 | Ktron | krka thanks |
| 09:35.12 | AnduinLothar | using setn it shouldn't matter msot of the time |
| 09:35.34 | AnduinLothar | you just cant use a for loop, you have to use a while loop to itterate over |
| 09:36.07 | AnduinLothar | ok krka, i think i combined our approaches: http://pastebin.com/453773 |
| 09:38.30 | krka|work | looks good |
| 09:38.43 | AnduinLothar | only thing i can think of is changing semmantics so if it cant find the sepperater, make the first index the full string |
| 09:39.20 | AnduinLothar | can you profile that code against your old code? |
| 09:40.19 | krka|work | yes, mine is still faster :P |
| 09:40.21 | krka|work | not by much thouh |
| 09:40.55 | AnduinLothar | hmm, what would make it faster? |
| 09:41.33 | krka|work | might be the unnecessary tinsert |
| 09:41.39 | AnduinLothar | where? |
| 09:41.46 | krka|work | it's defined but never used |
| 09:41.53 | AnduinLothar | oh, oops |
| 09:41.57 | AnduinLothar | kill it |
| 09:42.04 | krka|work | i think my loop structure is faster |
| 09:42.36 | AnduinLothar | how would a while true with an if statement be faster than jsut a while? |
| 09:42.44 | krka|work | not sure :) |
| 09:43.24 | krka|work | might be that you work with t instead of oldTable directly |
| 09:43.38 | AnduinLothar | isn't that what u did?> |
| 09:43.44 | AnduinLothar | oh, nm |
| 09:43.56 | krka|work | shouldn't be a big problem though |
| 09:44.05 | AnduinLothar | just a single localization |
| 09:45.02 | krka|work | that helped slighly |
| 09:45.05 | krka|work | 2.3 vs 2.34 |
| 09:45.11 | AnduinLothar | hmm |
| 09:45.27 | AnduinLothar | what are you using to call the function? |
| 09:45.41 | krka|work | comparing to nil might be faster than doing not I usppose |
| 09:46.07 | krka|work | http://pastebin.com/453759 |
| 09:46.11 | krka|work | see at the bottom |
| 09:47.23 | Ktron | heh, I can beat the Sea_split in your example, but I can't beat split |
| 09:47.25 | AnduinLothar | i would be very surprised if not var was that much slower.. |
| 09:48.39 | krka|work | gfind beats both for speed easily |
| 09:48.47 | AnduinLothar | O.o |
| 09:49.01 | krka|work | hmm... split isn't something that should require much speed though, come to think of it |
| 09:49.07 | AnduinLothar | but generates garbage |
| 09:49.11 | krka|work | i mean, it's only for parsing stuff |
| 09:49.20 | krka|work | yes, which is why find is better |
| 09:49.24 | AnduinLothar | k |
| 09:49.40 | AnduinLothar | right, i'd rather have no garbage |
| 09:50.00 | AnduinLothar | it used to be called very frequently in get/setVlaue |
| 09:50.28 | AnduinLothar | but now those functions use a non regex specific format that is, i think, faster |
| 09:50.36 | Ktron | heh, alright, I beat both for speed, but time to see if it behaves correctly... |
| 09:50.43 | krka|work | you did? |
| 09:50.58 | krka|work | try with a lot of empty strings |
| 09:51.09 | krka|work | like this: split(",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,", ",") |
| 09:51.14 | Ktron | alright |
| 09:51.28 | Ktron | actually, that's what it's doing now |
| 09:51.29 | krka|work | i also came up with something that was generally faster but failed on that test |
| 09:51.33 | AnduinLothar | does it use strfind? |
| 09:51.43 | AnduinLothar | ktron* |
| 09:51.45 | Ktron | yeah, it uses string.find |
| 09:51.50 | AnduinLothar | hmm |
| 09:51.59 | Ktron | give me a second, don't get your hopes up, I'm sure I did something horrible |
| 09:52.03 | krka|work | well, show the code then :P |
| 09:52.34 | Ktron | the function or the whole file? |
| 09:52.41 | krka|work | the relevant stuff |
| 09:52.57 | Ktron | I'm getting insanely better speeds, so I'm sure I did something illegal heh, alright |
| 09:53.18 | krka|work | i did a version with plain string.find (non-regex) and that was faster for most cases |
| 09:53.21 | Ktron | http://wow.pastebin.com/453778 |
| 09:53.54 | Ktron | I haven't checked out noPurge's functionality... my benchmarks... |
| 09:54.04 | krka|work | have you checked that it produces correct output? |
| 09:54.32 | Ktron | definitely did with the first string, I'll check the second |
| 09:54.32 | krka|work | you completely missed the point in having oldTable :P |
| 09:54.49 | Ktron | No, I didn't... |
| 09:55.00 | Ktron | if oldTable exists, it sets T to Oldtable |
| 09:55.01 | AnduinLothar | and redefining "([^"..separator.."]+)" is wasteful |
| 09:55.05 | Ktron | *oldTable |
| 09:55.10 | krka|work | you create a table every time? |
| 09:55.30 | krka|work | (wasteful of speed, not wasteful of garbage) |
| 09:55.39 | Tem | :ASOhg |
| 09:55.40 | Tem | asgasoigh |
| 09:55.43 | Tem | TOEP! |
| 09:55.45 | Tem | MINE |
| 09:56.02 | Ktron | I'll clean up the code some |
| 09:56.12 | AnduinLothar | ya, ur nopurge makes a table even if u passed one, which defetes the purpose |
| 09:56.13 | krka|work | Ktron, the point of oldTable is not having to create a new table |
| 09:56.22 | krka|work | new tables = garbage |
| 09:56.37 | Depherios | ... oh yeah, I wanted to ask |
| 09:56.43 | Ktron | yeah, I understand... doesn't T = oldTable just make T a reference to oldTable? |
| 09:56.45 | Depherios | does garbage collection cause a ton of slowdown? |
| 09:56.55 | krka|work | it freezes the game basically |
| 09:57.02 | Depherios | hmm |
| 09:57.03 | Depherios | thanks |
| 09:57.15 | krka|work | which is why it's good to have it happen as seldom as possible |
| 09:57.26 | Depherios | thanks |
| 09:57.41 | Depherios | which is why I need to clean up a lot of the stuff I do XD |
| 09:57.59 | krka|work | that table reusage technique is really clever |
| 09:58.10 | AnduinLothar | leg's idea |
| 09:58.52 | AnduinLothar | running ur profiling code doesn't seem to do anything.. |
| 09:58.56 | krka|work | i wonder who came up with it first, i bet 100s of people came up with it independently |
| 09:59.15 | AnduinLothar | leg spearheaded the gc effort in cosmos |
| 09:59.16 | Ktron | AnduinLothar: was that addressed to me? |
| 09:59.35 | AnduinLothar | mmm, nto the recent ones |
| 09:59.38 | Ktron | k |
| 09:59.47 | AnduinLothar | was saying i cant get krka's profilign code to work |
| 10:00.24 | krka|work | really? |
| 10:00.33 | krka|work | from commandline? |
| 10:00.42 | AnduinLothar | ya.. |
| 10:00.47 | krka|work | what does it say? |
| 10:00.51 | AnduinLothar | nada |
| 10:00.59 | krka|work | strange |
| 10:01.02 | krka|work | works for me |
| 10:02.21 | AnduinLothar | ah... something about the cut and paste made the comment multi-lined |
| 10:05.03 | AnduinLothar | ok, well i spead mine up: 3.59 vs 2.89 |
| 10:06.07 | Ktron | I caught your point about me missing the point of oldTable |
| 10:06.28 | Ktron | thanks again... I think it's either time to sleep or time to pick up xml to complement lua now |
| 10:06.36 | AnduinLothar | tho for some odd reason my interpriter said var2 was nil after using local var1, var2 = 0; ... |
| 10:06.54 | Depherios | that fast rather |
| 10:08.41 | AnduinLothar | also nuked init |
| 10:08.47 | AnduinLothar | just used mstart |
| 10:08.52 | Ktron | heh, I shouldn't be struggling with it too much, I've done enough kinds of programming at this point... the most unique thing I think is how and and or work |
| 10:08.59 | Depherios | XML is easy though... although I have more experience with XML than script |
| 10:09.25 | Ktron | xml shouldn't be too bad for me either, done either html/php/css stuff |
| 10:09.37 | Ktron | just have to learn the tags, heh |
| 10:09.39 | Depherios | XML was easy for me because I've done skinning |
| 10:09.52 | Ktron | Depherios: I've thought about trying skinning, only done it once |
| 10:09.53 | Depherios | WoW is a lot easier to do layouts for than winamp, or trillian |
| 10:10.04 | Ktron | so I've heard |
| 10:10.11 | Depherios | although the layering can get weird :P |
| 10:10.36 | Depherios | The only thing I had trouble with XML end, is the way borders work |
| 10:11.08 | Depherios | oh, btw, I've been meaning to ask, does the new SetPoints let you make 4 sided polygons, instead of just squares? |
| 10:12.17 | AnduinLothar | krka: http://pastebin.com/453783 |
| 10:12.40 | Ktron | I can't find SetPoints in the thread.... hm |
| 10:12.48 | Depherios | * New 8-param form of Texture:SetTexCoord(ULx, ULy, LLx, LLy, URx, URy, LRx, LRy) |
| 10:13.21 | Depherios | that sounds like you could define any 4 cornered shape you wanted |
| 10:13.37 | AnduinLothar | that's not SetPoint |
| 10:13.43 | Depherios | sorry XD |
| 10:14.25 | Depherios | ... would that let you define a texture similarly then? |
| 10:14.46 | Ktron | I'm confused on your question |
| 10:15.06 | Ktron | From what I read, SetTexCoord is going to let us specify any quadrilateral |
| 10:15.15 | Depherios | sorry the LUA end of the WidgetAPI confuses me in some ends |
| 10:15.22 | Ktron | it'll be interesting to see if there's any other limits imposed that we don't know about |
| 10:15.33 | Depherios | yes... that's the word i've been trying to think of XD |
| 10:15.36 | Ktron | like if the shape needs to be convex |
| 10:15.37 | AnduinLothar | wow. my time trials are getting wildly different results.. |
| 10:16.06 | Ktron | AnduinLothar: I can run some here if you'd like for comparison, if that's helpful |
| 10:16.32 | AnduinLothar | run that last pastebin of mine |
| 10:16.32 | Ktron | Depherios: With only Shearing and Rotation, they should have to remain convex |
| 10:16.50 | Depherios | :P |
| 10:16.53 | Depherios | oh well |
| 10:16.55 | Ktron | Depherios: Actually, it should only allow parallelograms with rotation |
| 10:17.05 | Depherios | I see |
| 10:17.07 | Ktron | Depherios: I think Trapezoids even are out |
| 10:17.15 | Depherios | Likely |
| 10:17.21 | Depherios | but it thought it would be worth asking XD |
| 10:18.12 | Depherios | worth a shot though... the way WoW's UI handles textures is bizzare... with the way it's handled by the vidcard and whatnot |
| 10:18.47 | Depherios | (i.e. older vidcards not supporting textures larger than 256x256 |
| 10:19.19 | Ktron | Looking through the forums, it looks like Iriel has used the new version already, so you'll have to catch Ir I guess |
| 10:19.36 | AnduinLothar | he did a spin test |
| 10:19.47 | Depherios | Heh, i should just get off my lazy rear and download the test realm patches... |
| 10:20.00 | Ktron | heh |
| 10:20.22 | AnduinLothar | ok, i'm runnign a 1,000,000 loops each and avging them for more accurate results, i hope |
| 10:20.46 | Depherios | do however many reps, but cut the lowest and highest variants |
| 10:20.46 | krka|work | oops... buggy testing |
| 10:20.58 | krka|work | table1 = split(teststr1, separator1, t) should be table1 = split(teststr1, separator1, table1) |
| 10:21.40 | AnduinLothar | and t2 for the other |
| 10:21.44 | krka|work | yes |
| 10:22.00 | Depherios | does anybody know why the Y coord in wow is flipped? |
| 10:22.13 | krka|work | it's not flipped |
| 10:22.20 | AnduinLothar | depends on your anchor |
| 10:22.22 | krka|work | it works the same way as coordinate systems in school |
| 10:22.41 | krka|work | the screen is the upper right quadrant basically |
| 10:22.42 | Depherios | ... but everything in wow is from the bottom left O_o |
| 10:22.49 | krka|work | yes? |
| 10:22.55 | AnduinLothar | what's wrong with that? |
| 10:23.00 | Depherios | ... everything else I've ever worked with is top left |
| 10:23.07 | AnduinLothar | most things, yes |
| 10:23.17 | Depherios | I was wondering if there was a particular reason |
| 10:23.21 | AnduinLothar | that's because the screen draws from top left down |
| 10:23.24 | sweede | whats top left ? |
| 10:23.32 | sweede | like, things that start at the top left.. |
| 10:23.49 | AnduinLothar | any coord art system like photoshop |
| 10:23.56 | AnduinLothar | or 3d modlers |
| 10:24.20 | Depherios | XML for Winamp, Trillian... the skinning system in windowblinds, uh... |
| 10:24.37 | Depherios | HTML |
| 10:25.06 | AnduinLothar | ya, it confused me for a bit, but it's actually easier to use once you realize everything's in the 1st quadrent |
| 10:25.12 | Depherios | it just continually plays with my mind... I'm getting used to it now though |
| 10:25.15 | krka|work | does it really matter how it's defined, as long as you know how it is defined? |
| 10:25.23 | Depherios | Takes getting used to |
| 10:25.31 | Depherios | I do table-less webpages a lot |
| 10:25.33 | Ktron | AnduinLothar: comparing sea.util.split to sea_split and split |
| 10:25.44 | AnduinLothar | ok, this is what i'm getting, tho it changes... |
| 10:25.45 | AnduinLothar | split - total: 23.5, each: 2.35e-05 |
| 10:25.45 | AnduinLothar | Sea_split - total: 23.71, each: 2.371e-05 |
| 10:25.51 | krka|work | just do my_y = (screenheight - y) then |
| 10:25.54 | AnduinLothar | with 1 million reps |
| 10:25.57 | sweede | i had to think about photoshop for a minute, but its intersting because other adobe products such as acrobat, and anything in desktop publishing, is bottom left. |
| 10:26.19 | Depherios | golive and imagready are both upper left as well |
| 10:26.21 | Depherios | you're right though |
| 10:26.28 | Depherios | Publishing is from baseline |
| 10:26.29 | Depherios | bottom left |
| 10:26.32 | AnduinLothar | bottom left is more logical, top left is tradition based on crt mechanics |
| 10:26.57 | Ktron | AnduinLothar: it's complaining about sfind? weird |
| 10:27.06 | krka|work | or based on how graphics memory worked, back when you plotted pixels by writing directly into video memory |
| 10:27.16 | krka|work | video memory base offset = top left |
| 10:27.22 | AnduinLothar | you have strfind = string.find; at the top of the file, right? |
| 10:27.44 | Ktron | do now heh |
| 10:27.49 | Ktron | didn't notice that |
| 10:28.13 | AnduinLothar | odd. with 1 million reps split was faster... |
| 10:28.14 | Ktron | running a million reps each |
| 10:28.27 | AnduinLothar | but with 100,000: |
| 10:28.32 | AnduinLothar | split - total: 2.6, each: 2.6e-05 |
| 10:28.32 | AnduinLothar | Sea_split - total: 2.29, each: 2.29e-05 |
| 10:28.52 | Ktron | I'm assuming I should put a tinsert = table.insert up top too? |
| 10:29.06 | AnduinLothar | it's not used |
| 10:29.23 | Ktron | code I have does |
| 10:29.37 | krka|work | you really need many reps to get an accurate estimate |
| 10:29.38 | AnduinLothar | are u running old Sea code? |
| 10:29.49 | krka|work | otherwise random things can affect the result |
| 10:30.28 | Ktron | took what I could from http://wow.pastebin.com/453752, running exactly http://wow.pastebin.com/453792 |
| 10:30.37 | AnduinLothar | krka, i'm thinking over longer time there's more chance of change as well unless i reboot and run 10^10 |
| 10:31.43 | Ktron | 1e6 reps-- Split 17.25, Sea Split 26.968, Sea Util Split 24.907 |
| 10:31.52 | krka|work | if you're not doing anything in particular with any other application, over longer time both runs will get interrupted about the same time |
| 10:31.58 | AnduinLothar | http://wow.pastebin.com/453795 |
| 10:32.11 | AnduinLothar | dont test Sea.util.split it's old |
| 10:32.23 | krka|work | anyway, at this point both functions are equally good imo |
| 10:32.40 | AnduinLothar | k |
| 10:32.40 | Ktron | running |
| 10:32.45 | krka|work | should stop worry about a few nanoseconds and look at other functions to optimize :) |
| 10:32.54 | krka|work | i need to download Sea when I get home and have a look |
| 10:33.15 | AnduinLothar | well it wont be much updated, msot of it's still on my machine |
| 10:33.20 | Ktron | split -- 14.046, sea_split 13.969 |
| 10:33.25 | AnduinLothar | leg and iriel updated the code in cosmos svn |
| 10:33.48 | AnduinLothar | so u can grab he latest from the cosmos core package |
| 10:33.58 | AnduinLothar | split - total: 23.83, each: 2.383e-05 |
| 10:33.58 | AnduinLothar | Sea_split - total: 23.91, each: 2.391e-05 |
| 10:34.07 | AnduinLothar | same code.. |
| 10:34.15 | Ktron | Running a 5e6 test |
| 10:34.31 | AnduinLothar | 10^6 ? |
| 10:34.41 | krka|work | might be interesting to know which lua you're running |
| 10:34.54 | AnduinLothar | Lua 5.0.2 Copyright (C) 1994-2004 Tecgraf, PUC-Rio |
| 10:34.58 | krka|work | Lua 5.0.2 Copyright (C) 1994-2004 Tecgraf, PUC-Rio |
| 10:35.15 | krka|work | Ktron? |
| 10:35.30 | Ktron | my test is still running, looking |
| 10:35.46 | Ktron | same |
| 10:36.10 | AnduinLothar | ok, next code: http://wow.pastebin.com/453799 |
| 10:36.20 | Ktron | heh, 5e6 test, split 69.296, sea_split 70.8132 |
| 10:36.21 | krka|work | yay! |
| 10:36.23 | Ktron | heh, 5e6 test, split 69.296, sea_split 70.813 |
| 10:36.37 | krka|work | seems to be random fluctuations, they are probably equally fast |
| 10:36.39 | AnduinLothar | so they're about identical |
| 10:36.54 | Ktron | I think withn our accuracies they're compatible |
| 10:36.57 | AnduinLothar | aproximately identical... sounds liek a band |
| 10:37.23 | AnduinLothar | or maybe: almost exact |
| 10:37.45 | AnduinLothar | emo maybe |
| 10:37.45 | Ktron | neglibly equal |
| 10:37.57 | AnduinLothar | negligibly? |
| 10:38.10 | Ktron | yeah, that |
| 10:38.36 | Ktron | heh, give me a break, the corner of my eye just started twitching... what time zone are you people? |
| 10:38.47 | AnduinLothar | pacific |
| 10:39.01 | sarf|morning | GMT+1 |
| 10:39.11 | Depherios | pacific GMT-8 |
| 10:39.33 | Depherios | I've been lost the whole time though, so it's easy for me to follow ^_^ |
| 10:39.35 | Ktron | yeah, I'm est GMT-5 |
| 10:39.47 | AnduinLothar | it's 2:40am |
| 10:39.53 | Ktron | 5:40am ;) |
| 10:40.00 | sarf|morning | 11:41 |
| 10:40.17 | AnduinLothar | silly backwards sarf |
| 10:40.35 | krka|work | ah, getglobal doesn't work on "a.b"? |
| 10:40.38 | Industrial | gmt+1 here |
| 10:40.46 | AnduinLothar | nope |
| 10:40.54 | sarf|morning | nope, krka |
| 10:41.04 | AnduinLothar | esp not if a doesn't exist or isn't a table |
| 10:41.18 | Industrial | getglobal('a').b does ? |
| 10:41.19 | Ktron | Alright, I'll save xml for tomorrow, time to sleep until noon heh |
| 10:41.33 | AnduinLothar | ind: as long as a is a table |
| 10:41.36 | Ktron | be back 5pm GMT |
| 10:41.37 | Industrial | yea k |
| 10:41.55 | sarf|preparing | Sleep well Ktron|afk |
| 10:43.25 | krka|work | valueTable can be removed from getValue |
| 10:43.38 | AnduinLothar | lol, true |
| 10:44.10 | krka|work | other than that, it looks optimal |
| 10:44.33 | AnduinLothar | comparign it against the onld on to get a % faster |
| 10:44.54 | krka|work | onld? |
| 10:44.58 | krka|work | ah |
| 10:44.58 | AnduinLothar | old* |
| 10:44.58 | krka|work | old |
| 10:46.37 | krka|work | also, split would be _bad_ for getValue |
| 10:46.49 | krka|work | you couldn't do getValue("a..b") then |
| 10:46.53 | AnduinLothar | right, thus why we removed it |
| 10:47.10 | AnduinLothar | well, one of the reasons |
| 10:47.21 | krka|work | a..b should be equal to a[""]["b"] |
| 10:47.30 | AnduinLothar | hmmm, so should i add 2 to the end and not just 1? |
| 10:47.44 | AnduinLothar | nah, i'll let them index by "" |
| 10:47.59 | krka|work | yeah, I don't see the problem with allowing that |
| 10:48.56 | krka|work | very nice piece of code there, I could look at it all day |
| 10:50.15 | AnduinLothar | :) |
| 10:50.25 | AnduinLothar | ya, it was a team effort |
| 10:50.47 | krka|work | why doesn't it allow getValue("a") though? |
| 10:50.54 | AnduinLothar | should |
| 10:51.01 | krka|work | # |
| 10:51.01 | krka|work | if ( size <= 1 ) then |
| 10:51.02 | krka|work | # |
| 10:51.02 | krka|work | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:51.02 | krka|work | # |
| 10:51.02 | krka|work | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:51.19 | AnduinLothar | mmm, oops |
| 10:51.39 | AnduinLothar | it should return getglobal("a") is len == 1 |
| 10:51.43 | AnduinLothar | if* |
| 10:51.51 | AnduinLothar | just add another if |
| 10:52.11 | krka|work | why do you need to do anything special for that? |
| 10:52.24 | krka|work | why not just skip that test entirely |
| 10:52.33 | krka|work | it's not going to be very common, and it's better to optimize for common cases |
| 10:52.46 | AnduinLothar | possibly |
| 10:53.06 | AnduinLothar | think i should just nuke the if statement? |
| 10:53.20 | krka|work | perhaps clear it with legorol first, he might have had a good reason |
| 10:53.30 | AnduinLothar | nah, i wrote that part |
| 10:53.34 | AnduinLothar | it didn't used to |
| 10:53.35 | krka|work | that would completely eliminate the need for strlen though |
| 10:53.47 | krka|work | in the last part, you can replace size with -1 |
| 10:53.58 | AnduinLothar | k |
| 10:54.22 | krka|work | hmm... can even skip that argument entirely |
| 10:54.29 | krka|work | return value[strsub(variableName, sstart) is enough |
| 10:54.33 | krka|work | err.... |
| 10:54.37 | krka|work | return value[strsub(variableName, sstart)] |
| 10:54.52 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 10:56.29 | krka|work | http://wow.pastebin.com/453820 |
| 10:56.54 | AnduinLothar | did u change anythign else? |
| 10:57.47 | krka|work | sstart = 1 also :P |
| 10:57.57 | krka|work | could even change it to 2 without much problems |
| 10:58.11 | krka|work | a . shouldn't be the first character |
| 10:58.24 | AnduinLothar | ? |
| 10:58.36 | krka|work | ".a" |
| 10:58.37 | AnduinLothar | oh, right |
| 10:58.43 | krka|work | that string should be invalid i think |
| 10:58.48 | krka|work | but it's no biggie |
| 10:59.09 | krka|work | find _might_ be faster if it can begin searching one step further in :P |
| 10:59.43 | krka|work | (but now I'm getting silly) |
| 11:03.56 | AnduinLothar | wow... it looks like this new version is faster than the old version by a factor of 11! |
| 11:04.18 | AnduinLothar | 1100% speed increase |
| 11:04.33 | AnduinLothar | er: 1000% increase |
| 11:04.44 | AnduinLothar | wow... |
| 11:05.00 | AnduinLothar | wait a sec.. |
| 11:05.03 | AnduinLothar | something's wrong.. |
| 11:07.10 | AnduinLothar | it doesn't work |
| 11:09.12 | AnduinLothar | ah, the first strsub starts at sstart |
| 11:09.17 | AnduinLothar | and not 0 |
| 11:09.30 | AnduinLothar | much better |
| 11:10.35 | AnduinLothar | ok. 270% speed. 170% faster than the old method |
| 11:10.44 | AnduinLothar | that sounds more reasonable |
| 11:11.45 | AnduinLothar | krka, can you run this to verify? http://wow.pastebin.com/453831 |
| 11:14.18 | AnduinLothar | now.. to do the same thing with Sea.util.setValue |
| 11:40.18 | Malivil|School | lol, finger twiched before i could put the school part in |
| 12:03.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=Matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 12:08.01 | krka|work | can't you run it yourself |
| 12:10.25 | AnduinLothar | i did :) but my numbers dont seem to be very consistant today |
| 12:13.54 | AnduinLothar | mmm, giant Sea update going into cosmos |
| 12:14.21 | AnduinLothar | should increase overall cosmos fps noticibly if you're using VisOpts or BarOpts |
| 12:16.25 | AnduinLothar | crap.. some io changes got overwritten |
| 12:35.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge incith (n=incith@d198-166-227-178.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 12:40.09 | Stylp1 | Yeah! Aced the exam! |
| 12:40.25 | AnduinLothar | gj, i think i failed my last one |
| 12:40.34 | Stylp1 | aww, I'm sorry |
| 12:40.59 | Stylp1 | Too much WoW? ;) |
| 12:43.07 | AnduinLothar | too much apathy |
| 12:44.01 | krka|work | i will never have an exam again |
| 12:44.01 | krka|work | woohoo |
| 12:54.18 | AnduinLothar | meh. the changelog summary for this patch is 33 lines.. |
| 12:58.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge groll (n=hoho@62.119.159.41) |
| 13:22.55 | AnduinLothar | New Sea Changes live in Cosmos next hour: http://www.wowwiki.com/Sea_ChangeLog |
| 13:27.05 | krka|work | yay! I'm mentioned |
| 13:27.07 | krka|work | that is so cool |
| 13:27.23 | AnduinLothar | heh, the header indexes are in the oppossite order of the updates |
| 13:27.57 | krka|work | how did you make getValue that much faster btw? |
| 13:28.01 | krka|work | 170% is huge |
| 13:28.06 | AnduinLothar | i know lol |
| 13:28.09 | Tekkub | (sea)? I hear all the kewl japaneese players hang out in (sky) |
| 13:28.36 | AnduinLothar | well you saw the code |
| 13:28.49 | AnduinLothar | i compared it to the old method using the old split |
| 13:29.11 | krka|work | ah, don't think i saw the old code that used split |
| 13:29.37 | AnduinLothar | wasn't too bad, just not as good as the current one. and not using split at all is even more efficient |
| 13:29.55 | krka|work | yeah |
| 13:30.13 | AnduinLothar | plus a few tricks i picked up from iriel on localizing |
| 13:30.33 | AnduinLothar | and some profiling echniques I learned from cladhaire |
| 13:31.19 | AnduinLothar | combined with elimination of the temp table |
| 13:32.57 | AnduinLothar | and nonregex strfind |
| 13:32.57 | AnduinLothar | = +170% execution time efficiency |
| 13:32.57 | zeeg | im sure one of you can help me |
| 13:32.57 | zeeg | http://www.davidcramer.net/Picture%2014.jpg |
| 13:32.57 | zeeg | wtf is this creme shirt supposed to go over/under |
| 13:32.57 | zeeg | i bought it like 2 months ago and never wore it :P |
| 13:32.58 | zeeg | this is the best i could come up w/ |
| 13:36.32 | zeeg | bah you all take too long |
| 13:36.33 | zeeg | ill make it work |
| 13:36.34 | krka|work | why does sea versions have to be updated by exactly 0.01? |
| 13:38.41 | AnduinLothar | meh, who knows. that's what was decided whe we implimented the versioning. I'm all for arbitrary incrimentation... |
| 13:39.40 | krka|work | ok, but it's not checked in lua? |
| 13:40.02 | krka|work | because that might be a bad idea since 0.01 isn't stored in exact form |
| 13:40.18 | AnduinLothar | it's not checked by Sea, no |
| 13:40.45 | AnduinLothar | SeaHooks now checks the sub version. but i've been incrimenting that by .1 |
| 13:41.32 | AnduinLothar | i think the most public revisions I've ever given anythign is Archeaologist |
| 13:41.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge BO|Razag (n=nierud@port-212-202-77-27.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 13:42.52 | AnduinLothar | which is at like 2.51 having started at 0.1a incrementiing mostly by .1 but .01 for some bugfixes |
| 13:44.24 | AnduinLothar | It's not like an OS that has yearly updates and has been around for 2 decades |
| 13:47.36 | AnduinLothar | Sea v1.07 Avalible for public download: http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=122 |
| 13:56.50 | krka|work | cool I'll browse through it |
| 14:05.29 | krka|work | hmm... have anyone verified that Sea.table.pop actually produces less garbage? |
| 14:06.11 | AnduinLothar | yes, that was the reason it was initially used, consequently it's also faster than tremove |
| 14:06.44 | AnduinLothar | feel free to verify it yourself |
| 14:06.59 | AnduinLothar | I haven't personally done the math |
| 14:07.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kalroth (n=kalroth@195.215.170.222) |
| 14:07.18 | krka|work | i don't really see how the strategy would work at all |
| 14:07.30 | Kalroth | I disagree with krka! |
| 14:07.33 | AnduinLothar | it doesn't remove table elements |
| 14:07.42 | AnduinLothar | therefore they never get colelcted |
| 14:07.55 | krka|work | yes, it keeps the garbage live for a while longer |
| 14:08.07 | krka|work | but when you do a push again, it will throw out the old content anyway |
| 14:08.18 | krka|work | so it shouldn't really help |
| 14:09.51 | AnduinLothar | so you think it's only moving the trashing from remove to insert? |
| 14:10.34 | krka|work | yes |
| 14:10.52 | AnduinLothar | it's possible. like i said. i haven't run tests, i just took some peopeles word that it was better and didn't change it. but i use tinsert and tremove 99% of the time anyway |
| 14:11.21 | AnduinLothar | when using numerical indexes anyway |
| 14:11.35 | krka|work | for something different: is setValue supposed to fail if the structure doesn't already exist? |
| 14:11.51 | AnduinLothar | yup |
| 14:11.58 | krka|work | i see |
| 14:12.21 | AnduinLothar | it was decided that it shouldn't create tables and not tell you |
| 14:12.51 | AnduinLothar | so we figured we'd let the programmer handle it when it returns false |
| 14:12.58 | krka|work | good plan I suppose |
| 14:14.28 | krka|work | you might want to port a few things now that you get bitlib |
| 14:14.36 | krka|work | such as colors |
| 14:14.47 | krka|work | storing them in tables seem like a waste |
| 14:15.31 | AnduinLothar | tables is how wow handles them in a number of functions |
| 14:16.11 | krka|work | if ( type(list) ~= "table" and type(list) ~= nil ) then |
| 14:16.25 | krka|work | you accept tables and nil? O_o |
| 14:16.34 | AnduinLothar | from which? |
| 14:16.39 | krka|work | join |
| 14:16.43 | krka|work | sorry, I should have said :) |
| 14:17.00 | AnduinLothar | mmm, haven't looked at that code recently |
| 14:18.09 | krka|work | gonna rewrite join just for fun :) |
| 14:18.46 | AnduinLothar | be my guest |
| 14:19.13 | AnduinLothar | think i did something similar in the SeaHooks debug function |
| 14:19.47 | AnduinLothar | http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=2689 |
| 14:27.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (i=Parak@x403442a4.ip.e-nt.net) |
| 14:28.37 | Anduin|Who | Keep me bumped: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?ForumName=wow-interface-customization&ThreadID=276806 |
| 14:29.40 | Kalroth | for pooorn! |
| 14:31.43 | krka|work | http://pastebin.com/454014 |
| 14:31.47 | krka|work | how does this look? |
| 14:32.41 | krka|work | ugly... |
| 14:32.43 | krka|work | http://pastebin.com/454015 is better |
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| 16:34.13 | StaZ | Hello people is this technically possible to export data programmatically to a file from an in-game addon? |
| 16:34.25 | MatryxWrk | well |
| 16:34.34 | MatryxWrk | do you mean "periodically" |
| 16:34.55 | MatryxWrk | i.e. every few seconds, or continuously. |
| 16:34.57 | StaZ | well save the data to a file |
| 16:35.04 | MatryxWrk | or do you mean "once in a blue moon" |
| 16:35.04 | Maldivia | You can save data via the SavedVariables every time you log out / reload UI, that's about it |
| 16:35.07 | StaZ | hmm... both could do |
| 16:35.20 | MatryxWrk | because addons can dump to SavedVariables when the ui is reloaded or the game is closed, as Maldivia said |
| 16:35.34 | MatryxWrk | or you could abuse the keybindings file, but that's awfully messy and supposedly being removed soon |
| 16:35.44 | Maldivia | isn't it already removed? |
| 16:36.05 | StaZ | and those saved variables are they stored somewhere i can actually pick up? |
| 16:36.21 | MatryxWrk | could be - keybindings file isn't my forte. |
| 16:36.22 | StaZ | from outside of course |
| 16:36.44 | Maldivia | StaZ: yes, they are saved in WTF\Account\[AccountName]\SavedVariables\[AddonName].lua |
| 16:36.46 | MatryxWrk | StaZ: /wtf/account/accountname/savedvariables/addonname.lua |
| 16:36.52 | MatryxWrk | or something very similar |
| 16:37.10 | MatryxWrk | browse through the directory there till you find a lot of .lua files in a folder called SavedVariables |
| 16:37.25 | MatryxWrk | my my - I'm slow off the bat today |
| 16:37.35 | Maldivia | nah... I'm just fast! heh |
| 16:37.38 | MatryxWrk | =) |
| 16:38.03 | StaZ | okay... :-/ but how do websites like wowguru or allazham gets all their info... i know they have people running the game and gathering data but that's all i know how to they send it, they send that [accountname].lua to them? |
| 16:38.15 | StaZ | MatryxWrk the evil bat? :P |
| 16:38.36 | Maldivia | StaZ: the players have a program they run, which uploads the file to the sites |
| 16:38.57 | StaZ | oh an executable... that sucks :-/ |
| 16:39.00 | MatryxWrk | yep |
| 16:39.06 | MatryxWrk | but it's the only way currently |
| 16:39.29 | StaZ | well that answers my question thank you very much |
| 16:39.41 | MatryxWrk | anytime |
| 16:39.58 | StaZ | have a nice day, til next time i come! :P |
| 16:40.05 | MatryxWrk | you too :) |
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| 17:06.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Industrial (n=tom@hellsblade.xs4all.nl) |
| 17:23.36 | Ktron|afk | you could use an account as a collector |
| 17:23.56 | Ktron|afk | like, make all the other addons that gather info broadcast the info to a channel |
| 17:24.41 | MatryxWrk | Ktron|afk: that's quite a bad idea for performance issues. It'd put extra strain on the server for the communication, and as far as I'm aware, WoW still crashes when it exceeds a certain number of people in any one channel at once. |
| 17:24.50 | Ktron|afk | and then you'd have to have an account collect the info, and then you'd be the only one to run an uploader, but you'd have to have an account per server you want to the program to run, which would be poor design |
| 17:24.55 | MatryxWrk | it's a wonderful theory though |
| 17:25.11 | Ktron|afk | MatryxWrk: you could have them all whisper a given user instead |
| 17:25.19 | MatryxWrk | again, that user would be deluged with traffic |
| 17:25.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-66-123-190-42.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 17:25.29 | Ktron|afk | yep |
| 17:25.32 | MatryxWrk | could cause a disconnect, which would be bad :) |
| 17:26.55 | Ktron|afk | hm, it'd be interesting if you could send data through mail-- I user simply sends a mail to a character like 'allakhazam' , and then the owner of that character just logs on, and reads his mail |
| 17:27.20 | Iriel | You can send anything you want in mail, within the size limits, but you (a) have to pay and (b) need to be near a mailbox |
| 17:27.27 | MatryxWrk | *nod* that's a possibility. but it'd charge the user |
| 17:27.34 | MatryxWrk | can you imagine anyone using that? |
| 17:27.38 | Iriel | I'ev always thought mail would be decent for DKP type systems |
| 17:27.49 | MatryxWrk | I think they'd be concerned it would abuse and send money to the owner |
| 17:28.42 | Iriel | people already use mail fetching programs |
| 17:28.49 | Iriel | the same risk exists there |
| 17:29.05 | Ktron|afk | If you want to 'ensure' its not doing that, you could always just give them a copy and paste, or let them see the exact email that's sent out... Yeah, CT even has a mail addon |
| 17:29.06 | MatryxWrk | *nod* |
| 17:29.39 | Iriel | And yes, it could easily open the mail frame and fill it in but leave it for the user to hit 'send' |
| 17:30.46 | Ktron|afk | I bet you could convince users that the 32c per send is worth the covienence, especially at later levels |
| 17:32.08 | Tain | Some users, possibly most users, but you'll get some that will bitch violently about any money, however small, they think you're costing them. :) |
| 17:32.20 | MatryxWrk | given the alternatives that exist without a charge, and the overhead of having to have a single named character on each server and each side, with the same name, and hoping no-one reports you for name abuse just to annoy you, or hoping that no-one steals the name before you get there.... |
| 17:32.51 | Ktron|afk | MatryxWrk: true |
| 17:33.07 | Ktron|afk | Heh, so there are alternatives, just bad ones |
| 17:33.14 | MatryxWrk | plus, should the account(s) get banned - all of a sudden everyone gets tons of returned mail |
| 17:33.29 | MatryxWrk | I bet the mailsystem would love the strain too :/ |
| 17:34.45 | Ktron|afk | Iriel: someone was asking about SetTexCoords-- the 1.9 changes all any parallelagram at any rotation, do they allow anything more bizarre? (trapezoids?_ |
| 17:35.05 | futrtrubl | yup |
| 17:35.15 | Tain | Dodecahedrons? |
| 17:35.24 | futrtrubl | has to be 4 sided |
| 17:35.31 | krka | are concave 4 sided polygons allowed? |
| 17:35.34 | Iriel | ktron : here's how it works... |
| 17:36.03 | Ktron|afk | Yeah, I was curious about Trapezoids, then concave polygons... listening |
| 17:36.10 | Iriel | Ktron : A texture object is made up of 2 triangles, IIRC they are UL-LL-UR and UR-LR-LL |
| 17:36.15 | futrtrubl | remember that your texture still gets mapped to a rectangle |
| 17:36.47 | Iriel | Ktron : The texture graphic is stretched linearly over the 2 triangles, based on the coordinates you provide |
| 17:37.00 | krka | i have a hard time visualizing how to correctly map a rectangle texture onto a concave polygon |
| 17:37.20 | futrtrubl | nope, it would be a concave polygon to a rectangle |
| 17:37.34 | Iriel | Ktron : Any linear transformation SHOULD work properly, non-linear ones dont work. |
| 17:38.02 | Iriel | You can produce 'non-rectangular' results only be using textures with transparent edges (and possibly more transparency than that) |
| 17:38.12 | futrtrubl | and if it's concave it means you'll get duplication of part of the texture in the end result |
| 17:38.23 | Iriel | since wow will repeat the edge pixel infinitely in each direction if you go outside of the (0,0)-(1,1) bounds |
| 17:39.01 | Iriel | which is the trick I use in StatRings to generate circular slices for small angles. |
| 17:39.30 | Iriel | futrtrubl : Duplication works ok, as long as you're duplicating a transparent pixel |
| 17:40.00 | Ktron|afk | heh... Alright, thanks Iriel |
| 17:40.55 | futrtrubl | no, I'm saying that if you use a "concave" poligon coords, say an "L"ish shape where the 2 triangles overlap to create the concavity that area will be duplicated when mapped |
| 17:41.21 | futrtrubl | I'll have to make a picture |
| 17:42.14 | Industrial | Is there anyway i can manipulate chat messages without breaking other addons? |
| 17:42.20 | Industrial | e.g. add a timestamp? |
| 17:43.07 | Iriel | My guess is the 'cleanest' way would be to hook the ChatFrames' AddMessage methods |
| 17:43.13 | Industrial | yes |
| 17:43.18 | Industrial | thats what im doing |
| 17:43.28 | Industrial | but i was wondering if that might get things wrong |
| 17:43.36 | Industrial | maybe i am thinking about it wrong |
| 17:43.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Natasem (n=Natasem@63.197.112.216) |
| 17:43.41 | Iriel | I dont think that'd break things, since other addons that want to parse the data tend to hook ChatFrame_OnEvent |
| 17:44.03 | Industrial | but if two addons hook AddMessage, and the first changes the actual message, and the second wants to disect the original one, wont it break? |
| 17:44.12 | Iriel | Yes it would |
| 17:44.22 | Iriel | But nobody i know of does message parsing there |
| 17:44.26 | Iriel | they all do it at ChatFrame_OnEvent |
| 17:44.34 | Industrial | why? |
| 17:44.57 | Ktron|afk | So people can make addons like yours |
| 17:45.11 | Iriel | 1) You only have to install 1 hook 2) You have access to the event 3) You can STOP the message from being displayed |
| 17:45.17 | *** part/#wowi-lounge MatryxWrk (n=cs99gcs@host-84-9-104-142.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 17:45.24 | Industrial | hmm, ok |
| 17:45.33 | Iriel | By the time you hit AddMessage you'er seeing every message from chat, every add on, etc |
| 17:45.43 | Industrial | yep |
| 17:45.52 | Iriel | Of course, that is a downside to using AddMessage |
| 17:45.59 | Iriel | You end up timestamping EVERYTHING |
| 17:46.15 | Industrial | thats what a timestamp usually does |
| 17:46.22 | Industrial | like in ric, and irc logs |
| 17:46.23 | Industrial | irc* |
| 17:46.32 | Iriel | If you want to avoid that i'll recommend you hook ChatFrame_OnEvent AS WELL, and manage a flag that says if you're in receipt of an event or not. |
| 17:46.41 | Iriel | Industrial : True, but think about using, say, devtools, with timestamps on |
| 17:47.03 | futrtrubl | ok, take a look at edowner.myserver.org/texmap.gif, the black and the red together is one triangle making up the final rectangle and the red alone is the other tringle, so when the final texture is mapped, the red area is duplicated |
| 17:47.51 | futrtrubl | not subtracted, so in essence concave pollygons won't work they way you want |
| 17:48.27 | Iriel | But you can make a concave polygon using 2 Textures... |
| 17:48.32 | Iriel | without overlap |
| 17:49.17 | futrtrubl | I'm not talking about outputting a concave pollygon, I'm talking about the SetTexCoords |
| 17:50.19 | krka | ooooh right, blizzard shouldn't always select the same triangulation |
| 17:50.31 | Iriel | Why not? |
| 17:50.45 | krka | if it chooses the wrong one for a concave polygon it will look fucked up |
| 17:50.50 | Iriel | The 2 triangles is purely an implementation artifact because those are the primitives the system works in |
| 17:51.05 | futrtrubl | krka, you got it |
| 17:51.07 | Iriel | Always think 'linear transformation' 'rectangular result' |
| 17:51.19 | krka | for concave 4 sided polygons, there is only ONE correct triangulation |
| 17:51.34 | krka | oh well, I guess we should avoid concave polygons :) |
| 17:51.40 | krka | not really useful for anything |
| 17:51.44 | Iriel | You're thinking about this wrong |
| 17:51.49 | futrtrubl | one correct triangulation that doesn't cause overlap |
| 17:51.52 | Iriel | The Texture is ALWAYS RECTANGULAR |
| 17:51.58 | krka | yes |
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| 17:52.30 | Iriel | Settexcoords operates in texture space, not in screen space |
| 17:52.35 | futrtrubl | that's what I am talking about Iriel, but the SetTextCoords don't have to be rectangular |
| 17:52.44 | krka | ok then I got it wrong |
| 17:52.51 | krka | i thought you supplied four points on the screen |
| 17:52.57 | futrtrubl | let me give another example... |
| 17:52.58 | Iriel | futrtrubl : Correct, it doesn't, but again, you're in texture space |
| 17:53.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ghent (i=ghent@fangorn.starshadow.com) |
| 17:54.49 | Iriel | To do this you need to draw (1) your texture graphic (2) your texcoords and (3) the resulting Texture render |
| 17:55.16 | futrtrubl | look at edowner.myserver.org/texmap2.gif the second image is if you use different verteces for triangulation |
| 17:55.59 | futrtrubl | my pictures aren't the final texture, they are the triangulation of the texture file |
| 17:56.24 | krka | i am dropping out of this conversation, I don't know if I'm following at all |
| 17:56.36 | futrtrubl | you are, you understood me earlier |
| 17:57.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (i=MoonWolf@ip51ccaa81.speed.planet.nl) |
| 17:58.44 | krka | does "hour-glass shaped" polygons work btw+ |
| 17:58.54 | MoonWolf | ?? |
| 17:59.07 | krka | with the coords set as a normal rectangle, but with two of them swapped |
| 17:59.09 | futrtrubl | not 4 sided krka |
| 17:59.16 | futrtrubl | ahhhh |
| 17:59.29 | krka | so a self-intersecting polygon |
| 17:59.36 | futrtrubl | you still get overlap issues |
| 17:59.39 | krka | yes |
| 17:59.51 | Iriel | I dont think you guys know how this works. |
| 17:59.52 | krka | will be interesting to do experiments on this in wow |
| 18:00.00 | Iriel | Forgive me if you've actually USED it and do |
| 18:00.08 | krka | no haven't used it |
| 18:00.18 | krka | most likely I'm misunderstanding something basic |
| 18:00.23 | Iriel | but if you haven't logged into wow and tested it, I think you may find it doesn't do what you think it does |
| 18:00.37 | futrtrubl | I don't think I'm explaining myself well Iriel, sorry |
| 18:01.14 | Iriel | The example, as you give it, would stretch an oddly shaped subset of a texture over the rectangular Texture object |
| 18:01.37 | Iriel | assuming your source texture is solidly colored, you'd end up with a colored rectangle |
| 18:01.55 | futrtrubl | I know that, the output is always rectangular |
| 18:02.00 | Iriel | if it's colored teh way your triangles are colored, you'd end up with a red and black rectangle. |
| 18:02.57 | Iriel | and because the source object is a non-linear distortion of a square, you'd have a discontinuity at the triangle boundary. |
| 18:03.07 | krka | so the arguments for settexcoords are coordinates on the texture |
| 18:03.15 | futrtrubl | yes, krka |
| 18:03.15 | Iriel | What threw me was the 'first' diagram |
| 18:03.16 | krka | and the output is always a rectangle |
| 18:03.33 | krka | hm |
| 18:03.36 | Iriel | You have 5 points in that one |
| 18:03.40 | Iriel | not 4 |
| 18:03.45 | futrtrubl | in the first one, concider the both the red and back to be one triangle and the red to be the other |
| 18:03.52 | futrtrubl | as I said |
| 18:04.02 | krka | i see only 4 |
| 18:04.18 | Ktron|afk | The output is always a rectangle? |
| 18:04.41 | Iriel | no, actually you're right, there are 4, I was mentally decomposing the black into 2 triangles and duplicating a point. |
| 18:04.42 | Ktron|afk | heh, I guess that makes sense |
| 18:06.42 | Natasem | my cats breath smells like pooop |
| 18:06.53 | Iriel | futrtrubl : I now see what you're getting at, but the 'correct triangulation' issue is the developer's issue, not blizzards. |
| 18:07.34 | krka | of course |
| 18:07.41 | krka | just wondering what would actually happen |
| 18:07.54 | Cair | Natasem, you there? |
| 18:08.00 | futrtrubl | I agree, I wasn't really arguing that, I was just saying that concave pollygon SetTexCoords won't always work the way people will expect |
| 18:08.12 | Natasem | yes |
| 18:08.16 | krka | i wonder if anyone would be crazy enough to implement Doom in wow lua in 1.9 |
| 18:08.23 | Ktron | Short question-- is it generally better to convert tga's to blps, or png's to blps? |
| 18:08.24 | Iriel | unless of course, blizzard wanted to 'support' non-linear transformations. |
| 18:08.35 | Iriel | Ktron : it shouldn't matter |
| 18:08.38 | Cair | Natasem: just for info, this is what yesterday was all about: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23wowi-lounge/20051207.html.gz , 00:45.13 - 01:06.32 ish |
| 18:08.52 | Iriel | ktka: That would be very difficult. |
| 18:09.03 | futrtrubl | I don't do either Ktron, I leave em as tga |
| 18:09.04 | krka | yes |
| 18:09.05 | krka | but possible |
| 18:09.06 | Iriel | We dont have drawing primitives |
| 18:09.11 | Natasem | midnihgt to 1 oclock? |
| 18:09.15 | krka | rotate textures and stuff though |
| 18:09.16 | Natasem | lol i am in bed by then |
| 18:09.17 | Iriel | You can sort of simulate some |
| 18:09.23 | Ktron | That's right, you can use tga's as textures |
| 18:09.25 | Iriel | but it's awkward and messy |
| 18:09.26 | krka | can easily draw walls and floors et.c. |
| 18:09.27 | Cair | click the link and figure out why I was mad |
| 18:09.30 | Natasem | i am in bed by 10pm |
| 18:09.34 | Ktron | hheh, how about asteroids? |
| 18:09.37 | krka | what primites do you need? |
| 18:09.42 | Iriel | asteroids is far more doable |
| 18:09.42 | Ktron | with 1.9 we'll have rotation |
| 18:09.43 | krka | asteroids was possible even before 1.9 |
| 18:09.51 | Ktron | krka: was it? |
| 18:09.54 | MoonWolf | cair you make logs publicly available now ? |
| 18:09.58 | krka | yes, yuo could draw lines |
| 18:09.59 | Iriel | Before 1.9 it was only possible with pre-rendered rotations |
| 18:10.11 | Ktron | krka: that's cheating |
| 18:10.15 | Cair | MoonWolf: those were always publically avail, *I* didn't make them so |
| 18:10.16 | krka | not if you use lines for all graphics |
| 18:10.20 | Iriel | technically you could stretch lines 8-) |
| 18:10.24 | krka | original asteroids was only lines I believe |
| 18:10.30 | Ktron | krka: yeah, it was |
| 18:10.40 | krka | I really should update the lines in AutoTravel in 1.9 |
| 18:10.46 | MoonWolf | this is cool, now i can see what people were saying when i was not there. |
| 18:10.46 | krka | you can draw perfect lines then |
| 18:10.55 | Ktron | fine, then, we can make snood for WoW |
| 18:11.09 | Ktron | but only in 1.9 |
| 18:11.16 | krka | snood? |
| 18:11.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge elema (n=ele_ma@p548AEFA3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:11.28 | Cair | I have a snood |
| 18:11.34 | Ktron | http://www.womgames.com/index.php |
| 18:11.36 | MoonWolf | ~perl snood |
| 18:11.37 | Natasem | 00:57.06Natasem is the last entry, that would be the night shift not the day shift |
| 18:11.41 | pagefault | kergoth_, I have all mats for my epic! |
| 18:11.42 | krka | i should post a challenge or something: first one to code a 3d-shooter in wow wins |
| 18:11.45 | kergoth_ | pagefault: nice! |
| 18:11.48 | pagefault | I just need to run the quest to scholomance |
| 18:11.52 | Ktron | actually, snood doesn't rquire it either |
| 18:12.03 | Ktron | the shooter in snood is just moving textures, no rotation |
| 18:12.21 | Beladona | Iriel: were there many changes on the API side with the test patch last night? |
| 18:12.27 | kergoth_ | i love scholo |
| 18:12.27 | Tain | ~snood |
| 18:12.28 | Iriel | Beladona : Not a single one |
| 18:12.33 | krka | ah, snood is like frozen bubble? |
| 18:12.34 | Beladona | kk |
| 18:12.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Lab (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 18:12.35 | Cair | Natasem: I am showing you the log so you understand why yesterday happened |
| 18:12.37 | Tain | Snood snood snodd |
| 18:13.08 | pagefault | the game needs more 5 and 10 man raids |
| 18:13.09 | MoonWolf | what happen that yesterday ? |
| 18:13.26 | MoonWolf | 5 man is not a raid, its a party |
| 18:13.28 | ForgottenLords | Hmmmm... five man raids.. |
| 18:13.30 | krka | the game needs less manual walking |
| 18:13.31 | ForgottenLords | ;) |
| 18:13.41 | krka | but that's my pet peeve, not everyone agrees |
| 18:13.45 | pagefault | MoonWolf, yes I know |
| 18:13.48 | pagefault | but you get the idea |
| 18:13.54 | Tain | WoW's normal speed has had one really big benefit for me. |
| 18:13.57 | MoonWolf | i do, i like to nitpick at times. |
| 18:14.04 | krka | generally, parties with 5 people suck |
| 18:14.16 | MoonWolf | generally parties with 5 people own. |
| 18:14.18 | Tain | When I went back to play City of Villians it was like already having a travel power, in comparison of how slow you are in WoW. |
| 18:14.25 | Ktron | krka: yeah, snood is like frozen bubble |
| 18:14.55 | pagefault | wow |
| 18:14.59 | pagefault | an orange item |
| 18:15.10 | Ktron | ?/ |
| 18:15.21 | pagefault | this guy is yelling it out on in org |
| 18:15.33 | MoonWolf | what is it, name please |
| 18:15.41 | pagefault | hand of ragnaros |
| 18:15.43 | Beladona | only 3 changes in the interface files with the test patch |
| 18:15.44 | Ktron | ah |
| 18:15.49 | Ktron | the mace |
| 18:15.49 | MoonWolf | nothing new |
| 18:16.01 | pagefault | ah I just haven't seen it before :) |
| 18:16.16 | MoonWolf | well it is an awesome item, but i was thinking someone found a new legendary. |
| 18:16.33 | MoonWolf | or do orange items have a different name... |
| 18:16.57 | Ktron | I'm not sure if legendary is the name they went with for oranges |
| 18:17.29 | Ktron | I remember uncommon, rare, epic, artifact, legendary, and unique I think |
| 18:17.43 | Ktron | for 'magic' items |
| 18:17.51 | MoonWolf | artifact then i think. |
| 18:18.05 | Ktron | I'm not sure if they were keeping all of them though |
| 18:25.15 | Iriel | Oooh.. Slouken stickied my 1.10 thread |
| 18:25.40 | Kolth | He hearts you. |
| 18:26.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kremonte (n=help@ool-18bba4ea.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 18:27.05 | kremonte | Magical Trevor is ten times as slick as the last time. |
| 18:27.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Maldivia (n=the_real@62.61.134.59.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 18:28.01 | pagefault | need to install bginvite so bad |
| 18:28.18 | kremonte | yay for never leading guild ABs |
| 18:32.34 | krka | iriel and slouken, sitting in a tree... |
| 18:32.50 | kremonte | c-o-d-i-n-g? |
| 18:33.33 | Iriel | nice |
| 18:34.14 | kremonte | *banishes* |
| 18:34.24 | Cair | lol, ummm, not sure that really works kremonte & krka, given that they are both male and both straight ... ;) |
| 18:34.44 | kremonte | so? 2 males can't code together? |
| 18:34.56 | kremonte | i didn't say "k-i-s-s-i-n-g" :P |
| 18:34.59 | Cair | hehehe |
| 18:37.01 | krka | two males coding together? kinky! |
| 18:38.30 | Maldivia | hmm |
| 18:42.10 | Ktron | so, after discovering if (~msg) isn't valid, what is the shortest equivalent to that? msg = nil? |
| 18:42.20 | Ktron | heh, rather (msg == nil) |
| 18:42.25 | Iriel | (not msg) |
| 18:42.38 | Iriel | with or without the parens, depending on where you're doing it |
| 18:42.52 | Ktron | thanks |
| 18:43.52 | Cair | oh *lovely* ... the "why lua" troll is still around ... |
| 18:44.08 | krka | not msg is not strictly the same thing as msg == nil |
| 18:44.22 | ForgottenLords | I <3 LUA |
| 18:44.29 | krka | they differ when msg = false |
| 18:44.49 | krka | false == nil => false |
| 18:44.49 | Industrial | (a b) or a |
| 18:44.53 | Industrial | fun notation |
| 18:44.54 | Industrial | :P |
| 18:44.55 | krka | not false => true |
| 18:47.28 | Iriel | no, but he asked for an equivalent to (~msg) |
| 18:47.32 | Iriel | Not (msg==nil) |
| 18:47.39 | krka | i know, but he suggested == nil himself |
| 18:47.50 | Iriel | as a possible shorteest alternatiev to (~msg) |
| 18:48.01 | Iriel | not msg is shorter, by 1 character |
| 18:48.44 | Iriel | (not to diminish the point that they ARE different 8-) |
| 18:48.50 | krka | yeah, I know |
| 18:48.58 | krka | i just wanted to clarify the difference |
| 18:51.17 | Iriel | I always love these threads where someone shows up and defends some friend or whatever about being warned about 3rd party hacks. |
| 18:51.28 | krka | also interesting to know: |
| 18:51.37 | Iriel | It's so rarely "*I* got warned, and *I* am the only person who operates this computer" |
| 18:51.38 | krka | not msg is slightly slower than msg == nil |
| 18:51.53 | Iriel | there's always a 'friend' or a sibling/child, or something else involved |
| 18:52.04 | krka | heh |
| 18:52.18 | Iriel | That makes sense, since 'not' has to check 2 things |
| 18:52.32 | MoonWolf | or, my brother was hacking on my acount. could you please unban me. |
| 18:52.35 | MoonWolf | that was brilliant. |
| 18:52.39 | krka | oops, flawed test |
| 18:53.04 | Cair | hey, this is me, I always try to give the benefit of doubt. :) |
| 18:53.23 | Cair | *snicker8 |
| 18:53.27 | Cair | * |
| 18:53.44 | Iriel | Oh and the 'This is the only thing i've done wrong, but I just got a final warning' line is always good. |
| 18:53.59 | Tain | I'd like it if the framexml.log showed an error other than, "Unable to parse file" |
| 18:54.24 | krka | ok, new result: |
| 18:54.27 | Tain | I don't know enough about xml to know what I did to break it. :( |
| 18:54.30 | krka | not msg is faster than msg == nil |
| 18:54.36 | Iriel | Tain: Grab XMLSpy |
| 18:54.50 | Iriel | krka: Interesting, is 'not' optimized in the bytecode? |
| 18:54.53 | Maldivia | load the xml file it in firefox :=) |
| 18:55.02 | krka | http://wow.pastebin.com/454344 |
| 18:55.04 | krka | here's my test |
| 18:55.21 | krka | don't know |
| 18:55.29 | Iriel | I'll check |
| 18:55.36 | krka | it could be that if a then... is faster than if a == something then |
| 18:55.47 | krka | good to know for the future |
| 18:56.09 | krka | not a trivial difference either, around 5-10% |
| 18:56.34 | krka | i tried the test with msg set to both nil and true |
| 18:56.38 | krka | in both cases, the not-test was faster |
| 18:57.00 | Iriel | == uses the EQ opcode |
| 18:57.04 | Iriel | not uses the TEST opcode |
| 18:57.26 | krka | there's not a NOT-opcode before the TEST? |
| 18:57.39 | krka | how do I read the bytecode btw? |
| 18:57.50 | krka | is there a lua bytecode viewer? |
| 18:57.51 | kergoth_ | luac -l -p foo.lua |
| 18:57.56 | krka | thanks |
| 18:58.14 | Iriel | no, there is no NOT opcode before the test |
| 18:58.48 | krka | interesting stuff this bytecode |
| 18:58.59 | Iriel | Your test is slightly flawed |
| 18:59.07 | Iriel | though i wont question the result until i've done my own |
| 18:59.15 | krka | how? |
| 18:59.25 | Iriel | You only test when msg IS nil, not when it isn't |
| 18:59.32 | krka | i tested both |
| 18:59.40 | krka | <krka> i tried the test with msg set to both nil and true |
| 18:59.42 | krka | <krka> in both cases, the not-test was faster |
| 18:59.53 | Iriel | ah, I just looked at the test code 8-) |
| 19:01.23 | krka | eq is slow it seems, compared to test |
| 19:04.03 | Iriel | Ah yes, that's why |
| 19:04.09 | Iriel | EQ has to handle things like promotion |
| 19:04.26 | Iriel | sorry, coercion in the LUA world |
| 19:05.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@63-228-96-74.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 19:05.22 | Iriel | At least I think that's what this function is doing... |
| 19:05.24 | Iriel | 8-) |
| 19:07.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge elema (n=ele_ma@p548AEFA3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:07.17 | Iriel | So.. in the lua code |
| 19:07.33 | Iriel | TEST is essentially ttisnil(o) || (ttisboolean(o) && bvalue(o) == 0 |
| 19:07.58 | Iriel | whereas EQ does an == comparison of the type of o, but then does a function call |
| 19:08.45 | Iriel | and that method is a LOT more complex |
| 19:15.05 | Iriel | (damn metatables, and userdata) |
| 19:21.54 | Ktron | what's the script command to reload the ui? |
| 19:22.06 | Iriel | ReloadUI() |
| 19:22.22 | Iriel | with /script in front, obviously |
| 19:22.28 | Ktron | ah, I was forgetting the first capital |
| 19:24.46 | Cair | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=276883&p=1&tmp=1#post276883 - people *are* getting banned for using decursive? news to me ... |
| 19:25.42 | Iriel | Oh, is there a blue post saying that? |
| 19:25.51 | Cair | no, notice my question mark |
| 19:26.10 | Iriel | yeah, i was going to post on that thread but decided it wasn't worth it |
| 19:28.05 | Gryphen | why do people use decursive AND ctra when ctra has a decurse built in? |
| 19:28.16 | Parak | It's a mystery. |
| 19:28.38 | Beladona | because the majority of people don't think about stuff like that |
| 19:28.58 | Beladona | that is why half the user population has 2 or 3 antivirus installed, because they all think more is better |
| 19:30.33 | Kiliek | that thread is just a troll |
| 19:31.04 | Ktron | Yeah, I'm thinking there was an illegal program in use and that they're trying to cover tracks |
| 19:31.27 | Kiliek | no one would bother to "observe" your use of ctra or decursive |
| 19:31.37 | Kiliek | additionally he put too much emphasis in "it's my raiding guilds fault" |
| 19:31.57 | Kiliek | no one who legitimately had a concern would do those, they were just ideas to get people rused up |
| 19:32.01 | Kiliek | riled up rather |
| 19:32.31 | Iriel | "she lives alone, doesn't work, and wow is her life" |
| 19:32.35 | Iriel | THAT is terrifying |
| 19:32.51 | Iriel | maybe she's a gold farmer and got caught? |
| 19:32.52 | Cair | Beladona: I don't have 2 or 3 anti-virus installed, but I *do* have 2 different spy-ware checkers installed, since I've had one find things that the other didn't |
| 19:32.55 | Ktron | Unless she's a farmer in china.... I don't see that as being likely either |
| 19:33.27 | Cair | mind you, both are "freebie" versions, which is probably why |
| 19:34.03 | krka | has anyone ever made an addon or script for forcing a garbage collection? |
| 19:34.18 | krka | that could be useful just before entering an instance or something |
| 19:34.35 | Ktron | Yeah, I've always been told that because of the way they work, S&D and Adaware will always pick up on different things, and so it makes sense to have both |
| 19:34.49 | Cair | those are the two Ktron, yup |
| 19:34.51 | Iriel | You can't really do that well krka |
| 19:34.54 | krka | why not? |
| 19:34.58 | krka | i have an idea for it |
| 19:35.10 | Iriel | because you can't 'let go' of the memory you allocated to force the GC until after it |
| 19:35.20 | Iriel | and then it hangs around until the NEXT gc |
| 19:35.32 | krka | i don't follow |
| 19:35.34 | Cair | I also have HijackThis, for those truly persistent ones |
| 19:35.37 | krka | let me write some example code |
| 19:35.41 | krka | 1 sec |
| 19:35.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Te1 (n=Matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 19:36.00 | Iriel | though maybe something clever with a metatable marked for weak binding |
| 19:36.18 | Cair | although I've yet to *personally* ever need to run HijackThis |
| 19:37.30 | krka | http://wow.pastebin.com/454415 |
| 19:37.41 | krka | take a look and that and see what you think |
| 19:38.25 | Iriel | that's pretty ugly, but I suppose it could work |
| 19:39.11 | krka | yeah |
| 19:39.25 | Iriel | gcinfo() is the function you're thinking of |
| 19:39.44 | Iriel | you actually need to update startmemused constantly in your loop though |
| 19:39.46 | krka | could make a warning addon too.... "memory almost full of garbage, hit force GC asap" |
| 19:39.55 | krka | why? |
| 19:39.58 | Iriel | otherwise in the event that there IS no garbage around, you'll loop forever |
| 19:40.13 | krka | hmm |
| 19:40.27 | krka | ah right, i thought of that silly bug but didn't bother to code for it |
| 19:40.30 | krka | it's easy though |
| 19:40.31 | Iriel | startmemused will keep returning to its original value |
| 19:40.40 | Iriel | never "dont bother to code" for a boundary condition |
| 19:40.48 | Iriel | that's just asking for trouble! |
| 19:40.48 | krka | http://wow.pastebin.com/454422 |
| 19:40.58 | krka | that was a proof of concept, not actual code |
| 19:41.16 | Iriel | that doesn't fix the problem |
| 19:41.27 | Iriel | Just put the test inside the loop with a 'return' and hang onto the value each time |
| 19:41.29 | Iriel | let me edit it |
| 19:41.38 | krka | i don't really see the problem |
| 19:41.53 | Iriel | gcinfo is in K, not bytes |
| 19:41.53 | krka | hm wait |
| 19:41.55 | krka | now i see it |
| 19:42.00 | krka | good point |
| 19:42.36 | Te1 | metatable? |
| 19:42.38 | Te1 | hmm? |
| 19:42.48 | Iriel | http://wow.pastebin.com/454424 |
| 19:44.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@63-228-96-74.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 19:45.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=NOYB@rhhe10-109.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 19:45.05 | Tem | rawr! |
| 19:45.25 | Cair | *purr* |
| 19:45.42 | Iriel | Tem: Yeah, the weak reference metatable entries __mode='vk' |
| 19:45.55 | Tem | oh yeah, |
| 19:45.58 | Tem | weak tables |
| 19:46.06 | Iriel | Tem: I was overcomplicating the problem, krka's solution works |
| 19:46.08 | Tem | I've never had the opportunity to use one |
| 19:46.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (i=neffa@203-184-54-229.jetbuster.co.nz) |
| 19:47.09 | Tain | For a split second I thought to myself, "You know it would be useful to bind /script ReloadUI() to a key." |
| 19:47.24 | krka | it is :P |
| 19:47.25 | Tain | Then I remembered how often I hit the wrong key for something as it is. |
| 19:47.41 | Ktron | Just bind it to like, kepad - or something |
| 19:47.45 | krka | i bind right mouse click to reloadui |
| 19:47.56 | Ktron | lol |
| 19:47.57 | Kolth | Make ReloadUI Ctrl+F5 :P |
| 19:48.04 | Iriel | Tem: Id' be handy to use one if youre maintaing a list of hooks for objects that might vanish |
| 19:48.06 | Kolth | Hard to mistype. |
| 19:48.37 | Tain | Yeah, but it's still quicker for me to do /reload. If I have to start doing combinations of keys I have to think about it. |
| 19:48.44 | kergoth_ | Iriel: weak keyed tables are also useful for maintaining metadata about other tables, rather than, say, storing it in their metatables |
| 19:48.59 | Iriel | yes, but you dont need to make them weak unless you think they're going away |
| 19:49.11 | Iriel | which is the example I was giving 8-) |
| 19:49.52 | Iriel | they're pretty nifty for caching too |
| 19:50.04 | Tem | kergoth_: what's wrong with storing it in the metatable? |
| 19:50.17 | Iriel | Well, you pollute that object |
| 19:50.24 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=Matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 19:50.26 | Iriel | And you might want to keep your metadata private |
| 19:50.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=Matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 19:50.35 | Iriel | And you might want to keep your metadata private (repeated for tem) |
| 19:50.49 | Tem | I hate accidently closing the window >< |
| 19:50.51 | krka | only sluts show off their metadat! |
| 19:51.58 | kergoth_ | i could see storing a reference to the weak keyed table to prevent it from being gc'd, in the metatable. but you wouldnt want each table's metadata in its own metatable.. that mt may be on any number of tables, and the other points iriel made |
| 19:53.48 | Iriel | kergoth_ You wouldn't need to store teh reference |
| 19:54.12 | Iriel | You'd make your metadata table weak keyed, and use the actual table you're storing data about the key to the data |
| 19:54.22 | Iriel | once the table goes away, the whole entry in the metadata table is removed |
| 19:54.37 | Iriel | It wont get GC'ed as long as the table exists |
| 19:55.13 | kergoth_ | right, i know about that |
| 19:55.18 | kergoth_ | i meant the metadata table itself. |
| 19:55.49 | kergoth_ | if it isnt stored in the global env, it needs to be somewhere :) |
| 19:56.35 | Iriel | well, it would be more logically loacl |
| 19:56.36 | Iriel | local |
| 19:56.42 | Iriel | if it's private |
| 19:57.01 | Iriel | since the methods that operate it would want to know where to find it |
| 19:57.23 | kergoth_ | thats true, just have it as an upvalue in its methods |
| 19:57.23 | Iriel | at the point you store a reference in the original table (or its metatable), you may as well just put a sub-table in there and put the metadata in that |
| 19:58.46 | Iriel | I'm a big fan of the shared upvalue table for private data |
| 19:59.26 | kergoth_ | yeah, its nice. and fast as well, no GETGLOBAL |
| 20:00.08 | Iriel | Though striking a balance between privacy and unexpected extensibility can get interesting |
| 20:04.27 | KronusOverlord | o.O |
| 20:05.44 | Osagasu | That was the oddest thing ever |
| 20:06.18 | Osagasu | somehow Tem had been set as my main nickname and OSagasu as my alternate |
| 20:07.43 | Tem | ? |
| 20:08.00 | Osagasu | I have no idea |
| 20:08.08 | Osagasu | I just know what I sqaw |
| 20:08.10 | Osagasu | *saw |
| 20:08.34 | Cair | later guys, time to take the kiddo to the doctor |
| 20:08.45 | Osagasu | good luck |
| 20:14.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ToastTheif (i=ToastThe@24-177-157-200.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) |
| 20:17.37 | ToastTheif | so guys |
| 20:18.14 | ToastTheif | I think I've decided on a new project |
| 20:18.22 | ToastTheif | a PLM type of addon |
| 20:18.52 | Iriel | PLM? |
| 20:21.25 | ToastTheif | Player Link Menu |
| 20:21.28 | Osagasu | playlist manager? |
| 20:21.45 | Beladona | please elaborate |
| 20:21.52 | Osagasu | what he said. |
| 20:21.55 | ToastTheif | http://www.viper.dk/WoW/#PlayerLinkMenu |
| 20:21.56 | Ktron | player leveller manager |
| 20:22.21 | ToastTheif | it works really well, but I want to make some changes to it |
| 20:22.41 | ToastTheif | and I'll Ace it along the way I suppose |
| 20:24.16 | Beladona | as much as I like Ace, I don't see why people don't just make their addons standalone |
| 20:25.01 | Beladona | but ignore me. I am just not big on libraries |
| 20:25.13 | ToastTheif | it helps me, seeing as how I Suck at coding |
| 20:25.44 | ToastTheif | makes things easier |
| 20:26.09 | Plorkyeran | someone who uses ace that sucks at coding will make an addon of about the same quality as a decent coder who doesn't |
| 20:26.35 | Iriel | I disagree Plorkyeran |
| 20:27.01 | ToastTheif | ace really helps me, it just seems easier |
| 20:27.01 | Iriel | I would say"about the same quality as a slighly less sucky coder who doesn't" |
| 20:27.16 | Iriel | It gives you great leverage, and lets you not worry about things |
| 20:27.20 | Iriel | but it doesn't make a bad coder good |
| 20:27.28 | Iriel | it just gives a coder less to worry about |
| 20:27.35 | krka | all the useful api functions in the world can't make a bad coder create good stuff imo |
| 20:28.30 | Plorkyeran | it won't make an addon good, but it'll make it less likely that a coder does something incredibly bad |
| 20:28.50 | Plorkyeran | I've never seen a small ace addon that utterly kills performance, while I've seen plenty of small non-ace addons that do |
| 20:28.59 | Iriel | O |
| 20:29.04 | Iriel | I can make one, ifyou'd like? |
| 20:29.10 | Plorkyeran | could be simply due to volume, though |
| 20:29.17 | Plorkyeran | it's trivial to if you try to :P |
| 20:29.31 | Tain | haha |
| 20:29.34 | Plorkyeran | it just lowers the chance of doing it through incompetence, though |
| 20:29.51 | Iriel | It lowers the chance of you screwing up something ACE provides you a method for, yes |
| 20:29.54 | Iriel | That is agreed |
| 20:30.03 | Iriel | but all the REST of your addon is still open for error |
| 20:30.44 | krka | hm, maybe we should write a guide with good practices in lua and pitfalls to avoid |
| 20:31.01 | Tain | Sounds good! Let us know when you're done. :) |
| 20:31.09 | Beladona | and that would get adhered to as much as the OO thread |
| 20:31.14 | Beladona | ... |
| 20:31.21 | Plorkyeran | that might help, but I have a feeling that the people who need it are the ones that wouldn't read it, and it'd be a lot of work |
| 20:31.32 | Tain | No, most people would not use it. |
| 20:31.44 | Tain | However I think it would definitely help the people who want to learn. |
| 20:32.06 | Beladona | make it less about best practices, and more about getting started (properly) |
| 20:32.21 | Tain | Those are the ones who can be helped to do things a, "right" way. I hesitate to say right, because there's too many right ways. |
| 20:32.25 | Tain | But at least not in a really poor way. |
| 20:33.03 | Tain | I have to admit it I were starting out right now trying to learn how to write addons by reading other people's I know I'd be lost. |
| 20:33.08 | Tain | Since people do things in so many different ways. |
| 20:33.20 | krka | i was thinking stuff like 1) creating too many objects is bad 2) what creates new objects? 3) examples on how to write code to avoid creating too many objects |
| 20:34.28 | ToastTheif | I read all the stuff |
| 20:34.43 | Beladona | that is just one piece of a pretty large document. A document that sorely needs to be written, but few people want to write |
| 20:35.10 | krka | wiki would be perfect |
| 20:35.14 | kergoth_ | krka: creating too many objects isnt bad. creating them and then not using them is. |
| 20:35.16 | kergoth_ | :) |
| 20:35.17 | krka | wowwiki ftw |
| 20:35.26 | Beladona | lol |
| 20:35.26 | kergoth_ | and i think it should be a wow addon best practices guide, not so much general lua |
| 20:35.33 | krka | yes |
| 20:35.43 | krka | well, some is bound to be general lua |
| 20:35.50 | krka | and some is bound to just be general programmign |
| 20:36.25 | Beladona | WOW:LUA("GUIDE"); =\ |
| 20:36.30 | Tain | Yeah, just don't mention anything about Lua or XML or anything else, that won't apply to WoW. |
| 20:36.45 | Tain | Stuff like, "By the way, in Lua 5.1 you can do it this way!" |
| 20:38.38 | krka | not mention anything about lua or xml? |
| 20:38.49 | krka | i am not going to assume that the people who reads aren't interested |
| 20:39.22 | Beladona | I think he means, restrict lua to what is available in WOW |
| 20:39.47 | krka | all of lua is available in wow, except for some functions |
| 20:39.51 | krka | all of the _language_ is in wow |
| 20:40.04 | Tain | Yeesh. nitpick about nonsense why don't you. |
| 20:40.13 | Beladona | isn't that the same thing? |
| 20:41.14 | Iriel | all of the language and most of the functions, it's worth saying |
| 20:41.22 | Iriel | that way people wont keep asking about bloody coroutines |
| 20:44.27 | krka | my god! no one as mentioned emacs on the wowwiki as a development tool yet |
| 20:44.29 | krka | i'm choked |
| 20:44.30 | krka | chocked |
| 20:44.40 | ToastTheif | chocked, eh? |
| 20:45.58 | krka | yers |
| 20:45.59 | krka | yes |
| 20:51.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri_work (n=andrews@203-184-54-229.jetbuster.co.nz) |
| 20:52.54 | Iriel | I mention it all the time in the forum |
| 20:53.01 | Iriel | everbody else has no love, sadly |
| 20:53.11 | Iriel | lua-mode and nxml-mode are a lovely combination tho |
| 20:53.21 | Iriel | especially with a rnc schema |
| 20:55.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@63-228-96-74.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 20:55.42 | krka | exactly |
| 20:55.49 | krka | i haven't found anything that beats lua-mode |
| 20:55.53 | Ktron | I never got into emacs, always used vim... but in windows, notepad++ -- I might try adding the WoW API as a schema for notepad++ at some point |
| 20:55.56 | Ktron | later everyone |
| 20:56.08 | Iriel | it does have some issues on multi-line comments and strings, sometimes |
| 20:56.18 | Iriel | that's the only gripe I have with it |
| 20:57.41 | Codayus | Mmm, emacs is great for lua development... |
| 21:00.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower|PC (n=chatzill@eacb01-00-crlnpr-24-48-144-65.miamfl.adelphia.net) |
| 21:01.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower|PC (n=chatzill@eacb01-00-crlnpr-24-48-144-65.miamfl.adelphia.net) |
| 21:11.46 | kremonte | would it be possible to hook all chat events and make your own chat frame? |
| 21:11.53 | Tem | yeah |
| 21:11.58 | Tem | they are just scrolling message frames |
| 21:12.09 | kremonte | well, one from scratch |
| 21:12.13 | Tem | yeah |
| 21:12.16 | Tem | they are just scrolling message frames |
| 21:12.16 | Iriel | yes, absolutely |
| 21:12.24 | Iriel | all you'd have trouble with is the subscription list stuff |
| 21:12.29 | Iriel | you'd need to write it yourself |
| 21:12.30 | kremonte | would that be in the widget API on wowwiki? |
| 21:12.35 | Iriel | rather than 'borrow' |
| 21:12.48 | Iriel | yes, every frame and frame method is in the widget API, though they dont all have detailed documentation |
| 21:15.23 | kremonte | bah, you can't setfont() at a basic level with them >< |
| 21:17.28 | Iriel | eh? |
| 21:17.39 | kremonte | scrolling message frames |
| 21:17.56 | Iriel | ScrollingMessageFrame:SetFont("font",size[,"flags"]) - Set the font to use for display - New in 1.9. |
| 21:18.02 | kremonte | yeah, 1.9 ><; |
| 21:18.19 | Iriel | It's just around the corner |
| 21:18.25 | Iriel | you can log onto test and do your work there |
| 21:18.36 | kremonte | i never want 1.9 to come ;( |
| 21:19.44 | Iriel | I want it to launch on tuesday |
| 21:20.03 | kremonte | :'( |
| 21:20.12 | kremonte | curse nerf and no more wallwalking, not much to do besides raid and make addons, that i won't use |
| 21:22.05 | zespri_work | wallwalking? |
| 21:22.35 | kremonte | climbing mountains, dancing on top of IF and org, exploring caverns of time, running into the outlands, and into thralls room |
| 21:23.08 | zespri_work | so how do they nerf it once and for all? |
| 21:23.29 | zespri_work | I thought that it wasn;t nerfed before because they didn't know how |
| 21:23.44 | kremonte | its still *possible*, but its a pain in the ass |
| 21:23.54 | zespri_work | mind you I haven't play for months and a half so I don't know recent news |
| 21:24.08 | kremonte | you have to always keep a certain angle, so turns are a bitch, and you can never stop moving |
| 21:24.21 | zespri_work | and if you do stop? |
| 21:24.27 | kremonte | you fall |
| 21:25.24 | zespri_work | right. but at least now you clearly know that you are not supposed to be in certain areas |
| 21:25.43 | kremonte | so? nothing else to do |
| 21:25.57 | kremonte | if you really arent supposed to, for example, why are there "Blizzard Construction" signs in hyjal? |
| 21:26.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=void@eacb01-00-crlnpr-24-48-144-65.miamfl.adelphia.net) |
| 21:27.13 | kremonte | omg, MC and BWL only reset at server maintenance now... |
| 21:27.21 | MentalPower|AFK | yup |
| 21:27.28 | kremonte | that is such bs |
| 21:27.35 | kremonte | so much for progressing in BWL -_-' |
| 21:27.36 | MentalPower|AFK | and AQ 40-man |
| 21:27.49 | sweede | its easy to progress in bwl . |
| 21:27.52 | MentalPower|AFK | whats so bad about it? |
| 21:27.53 | sweede | just kill the bosses, and move to the next one :) |
| 21:28.01 | kremonte | -_-' |
| 21:28.10 | kremonte | now we HAVE to do all our attempts at a certain time |
| 21:28.21 | kremonte | we would occsaionally have more attempts at bosses on wednesday, but now we can't |
| 21:28.30 | zespri_work | yeah. I remeber how in the first month of the game went life I with my lvl 6 char I climbed the mountain in coldridgre valley and suddenly fall to some grren land with an ocean. This was very interesting and surprising |
| 21:28.35 | sweede | we'll be doing bwl on sunday, mc on monday, tuesday-friday AQ |
| 21:28.45 | kremonte | is my guild your guild? no |
| 21:28.51 | sweede | it should be. |
| 21:28.52 | sweede | :) |
| 21:28.56 | kremonte | not everyone has nef on farm status |
| 21:29.08 | sweede | how many days a week do you raid ? |
| 21:29.32 | kremonte | mc/bwl sat and sun, bwl occasionally wed, ZG mon-tue, thur-fri |
| 21:29.55 | sweede | can you do one day clear of mc ? |
| 21:30.07 | kremonte | then we only have a one day attempt at BWL |
| 21:30.35 | kremonte | we do luci to shazz one day, then to rag the next |
| 21:30.43 | sweede | ah. |
| 21:30.59 | sweede | well, as your gear improves you'll be able to do 4-hour clears easily, chain pulling ftw |
| 21:31.14 | kremonte | that doesnt change that the bwl reset is only on tues is such BS |
| 21:31.26 | sweede | no, but you can change the day you start. |
| 21:31.31 | kremonte | no, we can't |
| 21:31.40 | sweede | start bwl on wed. |
| 21:32.00 | kremonte | we usually don't have 50 signups for wednesday. it's nothing in stone, but it helps us with our boss strats |
| 21:32.12 | kremonte | most people can be on on weekends, which is why we raid then |
| 21:32.24 | sweede | then do bwl on satu/sunday only. |
| 21:32.30 | kremonte | then we have 3 ZGs going on every week |
| 21:32.34 | sweede | mc on wed/thurs, |
| 21:32.38 | sweede | stop doin zg. heh |
| 21:32.50 | kremonte | we'll do that once we're as perfect as you, mkay? |
| 21:32.57 | sweede | lol |
| 21:33.29 | kremonte | we're looking in to speeding up our MCs, but with BWL, we just cleared broodlord for the first time last sunday |
| 21:34.23 | kremonte | another bandaid solution to nef exploits |
| 21:34.32 | sweede | our raid schedule (before we downed nef),starting tuesday, was bwl,AQ, AQ, sunday MC/Ony, monday BWL |
| 21:34.35 | sweede | then restart. |
| 21:34.40 | sweede | and what nef exploit ? |
| 21:34.58 | kremonte | people 'soft-reset' the instance at nef so they had more attempts. thats why they're changing the raid reset timers |
| 21:35.04 | sweede | thats not why. |
| 21:35.07 | kremonte | but we can't just change our schedule |
| 21:35.14 | Osagasu | Hey |
| 21:35.19 | kremonte | we have a lot of EU's in our guild (US server) |
| 21:35.22 | kremonte | hey Osagasu |
| 21:35.23 | Osagasu | wasn't this last patc h supposed to put in christmas decor? |
| 21:35.40 | sweede | cascading instances, issues with loot seeds, keeping track of instance timers and lockouts, issues with split raids |
| 21:35.49 | sweede | all that is a non-issue with the patch. |
| 21:35.59 | sweede | nefs reset timer isnt linked to the raid instance timer |
| 21:36.08 | kremonte | heard it was /shrug |
| 21:36.40 | sweede | vael had the same type of timer, except it wasnt ment to be reset after 30 minutes like nef can. |
| 21:36.52 | kergoth_ | i love farming skins in ghost wolf form |
| 21:36.59 | kremonte | nerf shaman |
| 21:37.11 | sweede | anyways gota go |
| 21:37.14 | kremonte | cya |
| 21:37.22 | kergoth_ | http://swa.joskeonline.com/RandomStuff/Afbeeldingen/whine.gif |
| 21:37.43 | kremonte | plural of shaman is shaman :P |
| 21:37.49 | kremonte | wait |
| 21:37.51 | kremonte | wtf |
| 21:38.00 | kremonte | boo 2 versions of english! |
| 21:38.20 | Tain | I thought it was Shamanses |
| 21:38.27 | kremonte | well. *Whine about Shamans* |
| 21:39.21 | krka | shamen |
| 21:39.27 | kremonte | *giggle* |
| 21:40.46 | kremonte | sweet, they made it from 5% to 10% damage bonus |
| 21:40.49 | kremonte | that actually helps |
| 21:44.57 | Tem | I thought it was shamen |
| 21:45.11 | kremonte | Tem, if you are serious, die |
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| 21:47.10 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Depherios (n=Depherio@67.189.88.161) |
| 21:49.32 | Codayus | heh |
| 21:56.03 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=Beladona@josephpartners.com) |
| 21:58.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=Beladona@115-60.124-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 21:58.09 | *** mode/#WoWI-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 22:04.15 | cladhaire | Evening. |
| 22:05.47 | cladhaire | ~lick parak |
| 22:05.49 | purl | ACTION licks parak *SHLUUURRRRPPP* |
| 22:05.54 | kremonte | o_o |
| 22:06.06 | kremonte | purl is hyper today |
| 22:06.12 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 22:07.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Disco (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 22:18.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Disco2 (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 22:25.37 | pagefault | this sucks |
| 22:25.52 | pagefault | apparently my dreadsteed quest isn't completable in a raid |
| 22:28.05 | cladhaire | which part? |
| 22:31.01 | krem`cod | none of it is |
| 22:31.09 | kremonte | it's not a raid quest :P |
| 22:31.18 | Ktron | purl, hyper? |
| 22:31.19 | purl | ACTION bounces off the walls. |
| 22:31.19 | cladhaire | i just know you can complete the DM west part if you wipe =) biggest scam ever |
| 22:31.31 | kremonte | scam? wah? |
| 22:31.37 | cladhaire | lol |
| 22:31.50 | kremonte | i run people through the DM west part all the time, it's great money |
| 22:31.57 | Ktron | cod krem? cash on deposit? |
| 22:32.05 | kremonte | call of duty. |
| 22:32.13 | Ktron | ah |
| 22:32.30 | kremonte | but yes, i do admire the cash on delivery system ;) |
| 22:33.15 | Iriel | Tem's version of COD would be Crash on Development |
| 22:33.16 | Ktron | I wonder if someone could write a mod to do the opposite, or allow trades |
| 22:33.43 | Ktron | it'd be nearly useless |
| 22:33.56 | Plorkyeran | mmm, 30 stacks of major mana pots |
| 22:34.09 | kremonte | die plork >< |
| 22:34.45 | Plorkyeran | someone put them up for 2g/stack :P |
| 22:35.03 | kremonte | omg |
| 22:35.11 | kremonte | they are around 2-3g EACH |
| 22:35.36 | Plorkyeran | they're about 4g each normally on my server |
| 22:35.45 | kremonte | sounds right |
| 22:35.54 | Ktron | you going to use, or resell? |
| 22:36.08 | Plorkyeran | I'll burn those in about two weeks |
| 22:36.36 | Ktron | plus, I'm going to guess Plork is on a PvP server, and kremonte is on either a young server or a PvE (ignoring rp) |
| 22:36.48 | kremonte | uh. level 60 warlock on PVP server alliance side |
| 22:36.59 | Plorkyeran | RP-PVE |
| 22:37.08 | Ktron | wow, backwards |
| 22:37.09 | kremonte | Ktron loses. |
| 22:37.18 | Ktron | I would have guess PvP would have driven consumable prices up |
| 22:37.31 | kremonte | only for health pots, mana pots aren't really pvp-used afaik |
| 22:37.39 | kremonte | mana pots own for healers in raids |
| 22:37.48 | Plorkyeran | yeah, I almost never use mana pots in pvp |
| 22:37.55 | Ktron | maybe the raiding difference does it |
| 22:38.12 | kremonte | lol, on my 33 warrior, this 37 warlock potted and healthstoned to kill me when i started with half health |
| 22:38.20 | kremonte | everyone friggin pots at these levels :'* |
| 22:38.23 | Ktron | yeah, I have a friend down the hall who has a 60 priest, and like every single type of mana pot/mana food that works on different timers |
| 22:38.36 | kremonte | warlock ftw, life tap <3<3 |
| 22:38.55 | Ktron | I've never gotten above 12 with a warlock |
| 22:39.03 | kremonte | heh, rogue? :p |
| 22:39.10 | Plorkyeran | my entire backpack is full of consumables |
| 22:39.12 | kremonte | levelling a warrior vs a warlock is like night and day |
| 22:39.39 | Ktron | yeah, 57 rogue, 31 mage, and my new favorite character/character class 25 shaman |
| 22:39.46 | kremonte | knew it |
| 22:39.53 | kremonte | rogues have so much trouble levelling cloth lol |
| 22:40.12 | Ktron | I don't have the time for raids, so my rogue is kind of boring... levelling cloth? |
| 22:41.42 | Plorkyeran | leveling a warrior is kinda slow, but incredibly easy |
| 22:41.48 | kremonte | are you kidding me? |
| 22:42.01 | kremonte | i grind blazingly fast on my warrior, 50k xp/hr on average in desolace at 33 |
| 22:42.26 | Plorkyeran | rested? |
| 22:42.57 | kremonte | yeah usually |
| 22:43.03 | kremonte | its an alt |
| 22:43.49 | Plorkyeran | on my druid the last time I spent a significant amount of time grinding I was doing 30k/hour unrested on the ogres in duskwood at 28-30 |
| 22:43.59 | Plorkyeran | the problem is that it kills my hands |
| 22:44.01 | kremonte | druids and priests level real slow =/ |
| 22:44.14 | krka | hunters FTW! |
| 22:44.22 | Plorkyeran | shadow priests level incredibly fast when you know how to play them :P |
| 22:44.36 | kremonte | the whole thing with water slows things down drastically IMO |
| 22:44.40 | kremonte | because you cant bandage mana |
| 22:45.04 | Plorkyeran | if you ever have to drink as a shadow priest, you're doing something wrong |
| 22:45.05 | kremonte | i have a level 19 twinked hunter for wsg, it's so fun lol |
| 22:45.19 | kremonte | well, i don't really know how spirit works lol |
| 22:45.29 | kremonte | <3 life tap! |
| 22:45.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine (n=Guilloti@63.203.120.57) |
| 22:45.39 | Guillotine | rawr |
| 22:45.41 | kremonte | 'lo guillotine |
| 22:45.45 | Gryphen | ono i esceared of teh rawr! i need a huggle. |
| 22:46.05 | kremonte | you seen my new endeavours with spoofing, Guillotine? |
| 22:46.17 | Guillotine | no |
| 22:46.18 | Plorkyeran | get spirit tap, focus entirly on spirit, and grind on greens using the PW:S -> MB -> SW:P -> MF until death grinding method |
| 22:46.20 | Guillotine | show me :D |
| 22:46.25 | kremonte | get on draenor, heh |
| 22:46.41 | Plorkyeran | back when I was leveling I sometimes had trouble using mana faster than I was regenning it |
| 22:46.43 | Guillotine | Plorkyeran: thats what my priest does :D |
| 22:46.48 | kremonte | yeah, i really dont know how spirit works. it is less than useless for a warlock >< |
| 22:47.02 | Guillotine | kremonte: im not on my WoW comp and won't be for a couple hours :( |
| 22:47.14 | Guillotine | just tell me about it :D |
| 22:47.32 | kremonte | http://dan-rouse.com/wowimg/superleetcasterring.jpg |
| 22:48.11 | Osagasu | heh |
| 22:48.28 | Osagasu | try a low level mace. all classes can use maces, right? most classes? |
| 22:48.40 | kremonte | warlocks, mages >.>; |
| 22:48.41 | Guillotine | is that actually being spoofed to other people? or just to you? |
| 22:48.46 | kremonte | to everyone, Guillotine :) |
| 22:48.48 | Guillotine | wow |
| 22:48.51 | Osagasu | yea, everyone. |
| 22:48.53 | Guillotine | how? |
| 22:48.58 | Osagasu | warls and mages aren't people |
| 22:48.59 | Plorkyeran | editing the item links |
| 22:49.07 | Guillotine | but how exactly? |
| 22:49.08 | kremonte | item : itemid : enchantid : ? : source of item |
| 22:49.11 | kremonte | is the form of links |
| 22:49.14 | Guillotine | right |
| 22:49.18 | Guillotine | so you change enchantid |
| 22:49.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge shouryuu (n=nicolass@22.239.97-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 22:49.22 | kremonte | so...change the enchantid ;) |
| 22:49.22 | shouryuu | rawr? |
| 22:49.25 | Guillotine | niiice |
| 22:49.29 | Guillotine | do you have an addon doing it? |
| 22:49.32 | Guillotine | or did you modify mine? |
| 22:49.35 | kremonte | doing it manually |
| 22:49.37 | Guillotine | dang |
| 22:49.40 | kremonte | the thing is, it's an ID |
| 22:49.44 | Guillotine | ill have to update my addon to do that too |
| 22:49.47 | kremonte | so you need a cache or ID's |
| 22:49.48 | Osagasu | bbl |
| 22:49.52 | Parak | http://home.earthlink.net/~answeris42/pewpew.jpg ? |
| 22:50.05 | Guillotine | haha |
| 22:50.07 | Guillotine | thats not spoofed |
| 22:50.11 | Guillotine | but still funny |
| 22:50.11 | kremonte | not everyone can see that, lol |
| 22:50.15 | kremonte | it is |
| 22:50.21 | kremonte | PLAID? |
| 22:50.24 | Guillotine | i mean not into chat |
| 22:50.34 | kremonte | oh, i meant it is as to it is funny |
| 22:51.18 | Ktron | lol, that's a rocking link |
| 22:51.19 | Guillotine | oh ya. and kremonte, the ? you didnt know is the type. for example, of the monkey |
| 22:51.27 | Ktron | purl, pewpew |
| 22:51.29 | Guillotine | also an id |
| 22:51.42 | kremonte | oh, is that so |
| 22:51.43 | Ktron | purl, pewpew is at http://home.earthlink.net/~answeris42/pewpew.jpg . |
| 22:51.45 | purl | okay, Ktron |
| 22:51.45 | kremonte | very interesting |
| 22:52.18 | Ktron | heh, so you can get like Thunderfury of the Tiger? |
| 22:52.24 | kremonte | no |
| 22:52.30 | kremonte | hm i have an idea |
| 22:52.30 | Guillotine | but you can spoof it |
| 22:52.31 | sarf|slee | G'night :) |
| 22:52.37 | Guillotine | g'night sarf |
| 22:52.55 | Ktron | I know not 'get', I meant spoof link in general/trade/a whisper |
| 22:53.03 | Guillotine | i'm pretty sure |
| 22:53.12 | Guillotine | not completely though |
| 22:53.14 | Guillotine | it may filter that correctly |
| 22:53.43 | kremonte | i'm trying |
| 22:53.43 | Guillotine | it obviously has no check on enchantment and only partial check on name |
| 22:54.49 | kremonte | lol |
| 22:54.55 | kremonte | i added +26 sta to my thunderfury |
| 22:55.13 | kremonte | and it works in chat |
| 22:55.51 | shouryuu | could anyone help me solve and error? |
| 22:55.57 | kremonte | oui? |
| 22:56.07 | shouryuu | someone is telling me my add-on gives them an "infinite: count" |
| 22:56.11 | shouryuu | what does that mean? |
| 22:56.26 | shouryuu | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4371 |
| 22:56.30 | shouryuu | is the exact error |
| 22:57.01 | Beladona | downloading and looking at it now |
| 22:57.04 | shouryuu | I understand the second line, the table that should be filling the edit boxes is nil instead of every index being equal to 0 |
| 22:57.14 | shouryuu | but I don't know what infinite count is... |
| 22:57.26 | shouryuu | and I've never seen it before |
| 22:57.55 | kremonte | ./script DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("\124cffff8000\124Hitem:19019:1900:343:0\124h[Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]\124h\124r"); |
| 22:58.05 | kremonte | links a thunderfury with crusader and 26sta :P |
| 22:58.36 | shouryuu | lol |
| 22:59.04 | sweede | 8 months of killin baron and not a single binding :( |
| 22:59.13 | kremonte | 5 months, no binding ;( |
| 22:59.18 | sweede | 6 months of rag, no eyes either. |
| 22:59.31 | shouryuu | binding? |
| 22:59.33 | sweede | one guild on the server got two sets of bindings on their first kills of baron/garr |
| 22:59.34 | shouryuu | eyes? |
| 22:59.40 | kremonte | wtf sweede =/ |
| 22:59.41 | sweede | binding of the windseeker and eye of sulfuras |
| 22:59.46 | shouryuu | oh :p |
| 22:59.49 | kremonte | hey Guillotine, i have an idea to make that work with your mod |
| 22:59.54 | kremonte | but your xml is scary looking |
| 22:59.56 | sweede | the first kill of gar and baron, got one of each, the next week, the same thing. |
| 23:00.01 | kremonte | its like, frontpage |
| 23:00.01 | shouryuu | lol |
| 23:00.19 | kremonte | sweede, make another account, whisper all of them that they suck ass, and deletei t >< |
| 23:00.50 | Parak | We got ours in two weeks...problem is, noone had an idea of what they did at that point, and uh...a hunter won the bidding. |
| 23:01.04 | kremonte | kill him >:O |
| 23:01.04 | Parak | He gets to melee now. |
| 23:01.08 | Beladona | shouryuu, you know you have a loop that does nothing? |
| 23:01.44 | Beladona | in your SetLeviLoto_EditBox_ToSero() |
| 23:01.54 | Parak | ze loops! zei do notting! |
| 23:01.55 | Beladona | Sero should be Zero* |
| 23:01.57 | shouryuu | I'll check |
| 23:02.02 | shouryuu | that would be most probable |
| 23:02.09 | Beladona | specifically this: for index=ListNumberStart, min(m,GetNumGuildMembers()) do |
| 23:02.09 | Beladona | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:02.17 | Ktron | kremonte, the thunderfury script you posted boots me if I put it in chat :) |
| 23:02.30 | kremonte | then noone on the server has seen thunderfury |
| 23:02.38 | kremonte | it has to be in the server's cache. |
| 23:03.15 | shouryuu | bela - yup never saw that |
| 23:03.15 | Ktron | Ah... it's lightninghoof, which is newish, so its possible |
| 23:04.10 | shouryuu | I understand the nil setNumber problem, it's just the infinite: count that's kinda |
| 23:04.11 | shouryuu | erking |
| 23:04.40 | Iriel | do you divide anything? |
| 23:04.41 | shouryuu | *irking |
| 23:04.45 | Iriel | A divide by zero might be the cause |
| 23:04.48 | shouryuu | nope |
| 23:05.00 | shouryuu | I've never seen that in my testing |
| 23:05.03 | shouryuu | really never |
| 23:05.21 | Beladona | for index=ListNumberStart, min(m,GetNumGuildMembers()) do |
| 23:05.21 | Beladona | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:05.21 | Beladona | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:05.21 | Beladona | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:05.53 | Guillotine | kremonte: I know my xml is wierd. I used Nulkris' WoW UI Designer for that |
| 23:06.00 | Beladona | n and m are defined as local prior to that, Iriel, if that helps |
| 23:06.03 | shouryuu | the second I understand, editBox[index] must be nil, so it just tells me that SetNumber needs to set a number |
| 23:06.22 | shouryuu | must not as in shouild |
| 23:06.30 | shouryuu | but probably are in this case |
| 23:06.44 | shouryuu | which explains the SetNumber(Number) |
| 23:06.47 | Guillotine | kremonte: so whats your idea? |
| 23:07.37 | kremonte | if i could touch the xml, just add other boxes to put in the enchant id/of the bla id #'s |
| 23:07.56 | Guillotine | i know |
| 23:08.02 | Guillotine | dl Nulkris' WoW UI Designer and you can easily edit it |
| 23:08.04 | kremonte | like [Link] Spoof:[_____________] Enchant#:[___________] |
| 23:08.15 | Guillotine | right |
| 23:08.35 | Guillotine | what happens if you put in an invalid enchant#? do you get d/c? |
| 23:08.48 | Guillotine | I'd assume so, but... |
| 23:08.49 | kremonte | nope |
| 23:08.52 | kremonte | just doesnt show an enchant |
| 23:09.00 | Guillotine | ok |
| 23:09.13 | Guillotine | so we can use this to get a list of all enchants |
| 23:09.22 | Guillotine | and the id |
| 23:09.32 | kremonte | yeah, but they are random |
| 23:09.40 | Guillotine | what are? |
| 23:09.43 | kremonte | #1 is rockbiter 3, #2564 is agi+15 |
| 23:09.51 | kremonte | but #2000 is blank |
| 23:09.55 | Guillotine | i know |
| 23:10.12 | Guillotine | but if we go through, 1 to whatever, adding it to a table each time its NOT blank... |
| 23:10.19 | Guillotine | have WoW do it for us |
| 23:10.45 | kremonte | well what i was thinking of doing, to find an enchant |
| 23:11.06 | kremonte | use any dummy item, setitemref to it, have sea.wow.tooltip.scan it, search the table for the enchant name |
| 23:11.18 | kremonte | do that 1-3000, hide the item ref afterwards, voila enchant id |
| 23:11.24 | kremonte | now it does give you like 5sec of lag tho ;p |
| 23:13.35 | sarf|sleep | kremonte: better way is to create a link item ref without an enchant id, scan it |
| 23:13.50 | sarf|sleep | then compare all other item refs with that base and if they differ, save the new line :) |
| 23:14.24 | kremonte | thats pretty much what i was getting at |
| 23:17.33 | Guillotine | so did we ever decide if the blizz devs would mind if I made a chat bot for WoW? something like purl |
| 23:17.45 | kremonte | wow |
| 23:18.32 | kremonte | that would be awesome |
| 23:18.32 | Guillotine | I think I may get started on it if we decide its ok |
| 23:18.32 | kremonte | i wanna contribute! =D |
| 23:18.32 | Guillotine | I don't *think* it would fall under the category of botting |
| 23:18.33 | Guillotine | ive already started some of the parsing functions |
| 23:18.33 | Iriel | you'd probably ahve to be at the macine while it was active |
| 23:18.33 | Guillotine | ya |
| 23:18.38 | Guillotine | the main point of it would be to store info |
| 23:18.41 | Guillotine | like: |
| 23:18.47 | kremonte | like, Guilbot, [Gloves of Spell Mastery]/ |
| 23:18.53 | Guillotine | Guil, Ragnaros? |
| 23:19.16 | Guillotine | ~~Ragnaros is the boss of MC. He drops class tier 2 pants. |
| 23:19.18 | purl | Guillotine: okay |
| 23:19.23 | Guillotine | oops |
| 23:19.24 | kremonte | rofl |
| 23:19.27 | Guillotine | didnt mean to put that into purl.... |
| 23:20.04 | Guillotine | but do you think cair would be ok hosting it on WoWI? I don't want to make it if it's not going to get a good host |
| 23:20.06 | kremonte | Guillotine - have you decided on a data format? |
| 23:20.14 | kremonte | er, table format, really |
| 23:20.29 | Natasem | lol Guil i found a page i think you will like http://wow.boom.net/ggfarmer/ |
| 23:20.54 | Beladona | anyone firing up Draka tonight? |
| 23:21.02 | Guillotine | just going to do InfoName[name].."is"..InfoAnswer[name] |
| 23:21.19 | kremonte | lmao Natasem |
| 23:21.24 | Beladona | that would be runon |
| 23:21.52 | shouryuu | well see yhou guys |
| 23:21.54 | shouryuu | time to sleep! |
| 23:21.56 | shouryuu | night |
| 23:22.00 | shouryuu | rawrrr! |
| 23:22.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine (n=Guilloti@63.203.120.57) |
| 23:23.43 | kremonte | Guillotine - as in, the data stored |
| 23:23.56 | Guillotine | not quite sure what you mean... |
| 23:24.05 | kremonte | like {["Ragnaros"] = "MC boss, drops T2 pants, [Perdition's Blade], etc."} |
| 23:24.10 | Natasem | lol |
| 23:24.15 | Guillotine | oh ya. pretty much |
| 23:24.17 | Guillotine | i guess |
| 23:24.19 | Natasem | Curse of the Farmer - rank 1/3 |
| 23:24.21 | Natasem | Minimum Level: 20 |
| 23:24.22 | Natasem | Requires 10 points in Grind Mastery |
| 23:24.24 | Natasem | Instant cast10 min cooldown |
| 23:24.25 | Natasem | Target player receives the farmer's curse. While cursed, the player's aggression radius becomes 30 yards for all monsters. The player also receives a 3% movement penalty and cannot mount. Cannot be dispelled. Lasts 10 seconds. |
| 23:24.44 | kremonte | lol i didnt know talents were there |
| 23:24.50 | Natasem | ya |
| 23:24.58 | Natasem | http://wow.boom.net/ggfarmer/talents.html |
| 23:25.40 | kremonte | LMAO |
| 23:25.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine (n=Guilloti@63.203.120.57) |
| 23:25.44 | Natasem | i like tier 6 Better Odds: Increases the drop rate of blue items from monsters by 0.03%. |
| 23:25.49 | Guillotine | dammit |
| 23:25.54 | kremonte | Instant cast2 day cooldown |
| 23:25.54 | kremonte | You become the master looter for the next 10 seconds |
| 23:27.03 | Natasem | lol Spam King: When you log off, your character will continue to spam trade channels about every auction currently on the Auction House for the next 2 hours. |
| 23:27.30 | kergoth_ | hahaha |
| 23:27.32 | kremonte | You may steal 30 silver from everyone in a 1 yard radius by typing: |
| 23:27.32 | kremonte | '/me pickpockets you for 30s. |
| 23:29.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cera (i=user@c-69-181-62-117.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:30.06 | Guillotine | and notice when you click "Farmer Forums" it takes you to the WoW rogue forums... |
| 23:30.13 | Natasem | lol ya |
| 23:30.32 | Natasem | well most farmers on my sever are rogues |
| 23:31.25 | Plorkyeran | hunters are more popular on mine |
| 23:31.30 | Natasem | Allowable Races: Human, Dwarf, Night Elf, Gnome, Orc, Undead, Troll, Tauren, Blood Elf, Panderan |
| 23:31.54 | kremonte | http://wow.boom.net/ggfarmer/talents.html?305551001000000000000000000000000555253003000111 |
| 23:32.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Zeldain (n=abc@c-24-7-127-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:33.52 | Zeldain | hello, fellow brothers here.. |
| 23:34.00 | Guillotine | hola |
| 23:34.03 | Guillotine | como estas? |
| 23:34.12 | Zeldain | I'm writing a mod now. Wondering if there is any way to find out which side wins the battleground at the end of the match? |
| 23:34.19 | Zeldain | "como estas"? |
| 23:34.28 | Guillotine | how are you :) |
| 23:35.04 | Zeldain | fine, thank you...but not really fine since i cant figure out the problem.. |
| 23:35.38 | Guillotine | have you searched www.wowwiki.com? |
| 23:35.57 | Iriel | Youd need to query the scoreboard |
| 23:36.01 | Iriel | but i'm not sure how easy that is |
| 23:36.10 | Guillotine | no you don't |
| 23:36.24 | Iriel | chat message? |
| 23:36.24 | Guillotine | it displays "The horde has won" or whatever |
| 23:36.27 | Iriel | aha |
| 23:36.32 | Guillotine | i forgot the exact message |
| 23:36.34 | Iriel | that'd be quite a bit cleaner |
| 23:36.38 | Guillotine | yup |
| 23:36.54 | Zeldain | yeah.. the only 3 events found in Wowwiki and Interface Custom Kit related to Battleground are "BATTLEFIELDS_SHOW", "BATTLEFIELDS_CLOSED", "UPDATE_BATTLEFIELD_STATUS"... |
| 23:37.10 | Zeldain | omg..thank you~!!!!!! |
| 23:37.27 | Zeldain | you enlightened me~! just filter the chat message and that's it~! |
| 23:37.47 | Guillotine | wait! |
| 23:37.49 | Guillotine | dont! |
| 23:37.53 | Zeldain | ?! |
| 23:37.55 | Guillotine | thats much more memory intensive than need be |
| 23:37.59 | Guillotine | hold on. let me find hte event |
| 23:38.09 | Beladona | I am sure that message is a Global String, so you should be able to watch for chat events while inside a battleground, and match against the global |
| 23:39.01 | Guillotine | http://www.wowwiki.com/Events_C_%28Cancel%2C_Character%2C_Chat%2C_Cinematic%2C_Clear%2C_Close%2C_Confirm%2C_Corpse%2C_Craft%2C_Current%2C_Cursor%2C_CVar%29#CHAT_MSG_BG_SYSTEM_ALLIANCE |
| 23:39.20 | Guillotine | use the event CHAT_MSG_BG_SYSTEM_ALLIANCE/HORDE |
| 23:39.31 | Guillotine | or is it the neutral one.. i forgot |
| 23:39.37 | Guillotine | but anyway, just use those events |
| 23:39.59 | Zeldain | woahh.. i didnt realize there were such events... now i have the idea..register those events~! |
| 23:40.05 | Zeldain | i will test it out...thank you~!! |
| 23:40.11 | Guillotine | np :) |
| 23:40.13 | Guillotine | gl |
| 23:40.25 | Zeldain | ./bow |
| 23:40.50 | kremonte | why do i have so many default UI errors in my WoWUIDes |
| 23:41.08 | Malivil | everyone does |
| 23:41.16 | kremonte | does it still work? :b |
| 23:41.16 | Beladona | I believe it goes to CHAT_MSG_BG_SYSTEM_NEUTRAL, but check each while developing |
| 23:41.35 | Guillotine | yup |
| 23:41.37 | Guillotine | still works |
| 23:41.38 | Malivil | Yea, it does kremonte |
| 23:41.42 | Guillotine | very well actually |
| 23:41.48 | Malivil | Extremely |
| 23:41.49 | Guillotine | for simple things |
| 23:41.55 | Malivil | I <3 the hell out of it |
| 23:42.01 | kremonte | omg, no wonder my ui has been so screwy -_- |
| 23:42.12 | kremonte | reverted to an old install with a 1.6 FrameXML folder |
| 23:42.19 | Guillotine | haha |
| 23:42.20 | kremonte | how the hell did it work |
| 23:42.22 | Guillotine | stupid |
| 23:42.23 | Beladona | FYI |
| 23:42.24 | Beladona | VICTORY_TEXT0 = "Horde Wins"; |
| 23:42.24 | Beladona | VICTORY_TEXT1 = "Alliance Wins"; |
| 23:42.29 | Beladona | that might help |
| 23:42.54 | Guillotine | why do they even bother putting in VICTORY_TEXT1? Its not like its ever used... |
| 23:43.01 | Beladona | lol |
| 23:43.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=malreth@cpe-70-113-94-7.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 23:43.04 | Guillotine | at least not on my server |
| 23:43.11 | kremonte | har har har |
| 23:43.12 | Guillotine | hola |
| 23:43.15 | kremonte | i win BG all the time |
| 23:43.15 | Guillotine | como estac? |
| 23:43.26 | Guillotine | suuure you do |
| 23:43.44 | kremonte | guild AB =) |
| 23:43.47 | Guillotine | ~x sp en como estas |
| 23:43.56 | Guillotine | wtf |
| 23:43.57 | kremonte | lol |
| 23:43.59 | Guillotine | it means how are you? |
| 23:43.59 | kremonte | its not literal |
| 23:44.02 | Guillotine | i know |
| 23:44.03 | Guillotine | still... |
| 23:44.05 | kremonte | ~x fr en ça va |
| 23:44.14 | Guillotine | haha |
| 23:44.16 | Guillotine | thats even worse |
| 23:44.44 | Guillotine | ~x en de Guillotine is so much better than Kremonte will ever be |
| 23:45.01 | kremonte | nein, Guillotine ist.. ein...... ein... |
| 23:45.05 | kremonte | *bad word here?* |
| 23:45.13 | Guillotine | ~x de en Guillotine ist soviel besser, als kremonte überhaupt ist |
| 23:45.26 | Guillotine | haha |
| 23:45.32 | malreth | i'm gonna have to make this keyboard tray wider if i'm gonna put a g15 on it... /boggle |
| 23:45.36 | Guillotine | i love translating it then translating it right back |
| 23:45.47 | Guillotine | cair! i have a question! |
| 23:45.51 | kremonte | ~x en kr scions of draenor lol |
| 23:46.01 | Cair | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:46.01 | kremonte | ~x en kr scions of draenor xlolx |
| 23:46.05 | Cair | ;) |
| 23:46.11 | kremonte | bah, not babelfish |
| 23:46.33 | Guillotine | so cair, did we ever decide if a chat bot (like purl) would be ok with the devs? |
| 23:46.45 | Guillotine | and if I made one, would you let it be hosted on WoWI? |
| 23:46.50 | Guillotine | it would just be for inf |
| 23:46.51 | Cair | *shrug* I'm not a dev, go ask them :p |
| 23:46.52 | Guillotine | info |
| 23:47.13 | Guillotine | but would you let it be hosted on WoWI? |
| 23:47.30 | Cair | as long as it didn't do anything Blizz would get pissed off about? of course |
| 23:47.43 | Guillotine | thats what i was asking. if you thought blizz would get pissed off about it |
| 23:47.48 | Guillotine | i figured not |
| 23:47.52 | Beladona | I don't see how you can make a chat bot |
| 23:47.58 | Guillotine | its easy |
| 23:47.58 | Beladona | it wouldn't be persistent |
| 23:48.06 | Guillotine | what do you mean by persistent? |
| 23:48.13 | Guillotine | not a real chat bot. just like purl |
| 23:48.19 | Beladona | right |
| 23:48.23 | Beladona | but it would be YOU replying |
| 23:48.25 | Beladona | not a bot |
| 23:48.28 | Guillotine | right |
| 23:48.41 | Beladona | so it is mainly just auto-responses |
| 23:48.42 | Guillotine | it will precede all bot messages with ~~ |
| 23:48.48 | Cair | so Slouken just made you guys happy yet again, hey? |
| 23:48.56 | Guillotine | doesn't he always? |
| 23:49.03 | Cair | Added debugstack([start] [, count1] [, count2]) |
| 23:49.29 | Cair | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=277092&tmp=1#post277092 |
| 23:49.34 | kremonte | pretty much for information, Beladona |
| 23:49.45 | Osagasu | HEY |
| 23:49.51 | Osagasu | Slouken got a pirate Avatar! |
| 23:50.06 | Cair | welcome to 3 days ago, Osagasu |
| 23:50.09 | kremonte | like, ~Guilbot, [Perdition's Blade]? [Guild] [Guilbot] ~~ [Perdition's Blade] is a drop off Ragnaros |
| 23:50.10 | Osagasu | :P |
| 23:50.11 | Beladona | so you are talking about storing game information in a database, and then having someone auto-respond with facts |
| 23:50.14 | Osagasu | I've been busy |
| 23:50.38 | Iriel | I see he's contradicted himself on UnitIsUnit too, bah |
| 23:51.18 | Cair | Osagasu: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=276035&tmp=1#post276035 |
| 23:53.35 | Osagasu | This ushers in a new era for the UI community |
| 23:53.40 | Osagasu | bout tome we get some respect |
| 23:53.43 | Osagasu | time |
| 23:53.52 | kremonte | So wait, is Slouken a Bloodsail or Blackwater? |
| 23:54.19 | Guillotine | neither. hes a dev :) |
| 23:54.32 | kremonte | blarg. |
| 23:55.21 | Osagasu | I wonder if this means he's become more or less an official community rep |
| 23:55.32 | kremonte | who cares? |
| 23:55.32 | Iriel | I doubt it |
| 23:55.39 | kremonte | he's awesome |
| 23:55.42 | Iriel | he's got a real job to do too 8-) |
| 23:55.45 | kremonte | and he's always been awesome |
| 23:55.52 | Iriel | He just hangs out in the forum because he wuvs us |
| 23:55.54 | kremonte | any pirate is a good'un in me book. |
| 23:56.59 | Iriel | I wonder if this littl eburst of 1.9 changes is simply indicative of an upcoming PTR build, or means that the release has been slipped a week? |
| 23:58.25 | Malivil | hmmm |
| 23:58.30 | Malivil | that gives us something to ponder |
| 23:58.36 | Legorol | g'evening |
| 23:58.46 | Malivil | *wave* |
| 23:58.47 | kremonte | ahoy mate. |
| 23:58.51 | Legorol | when do you think release is? |
| 23:58.56 | Malivil | tuesday |
| 23:58.59 | kremonte | never me 'ope |
| 23:59.02 | kremonte | ;( |
| 23:59.04 | Legorol | seems to me this tuesday, is that a valid guess? |
| 23:59.05 | Malivil | why? |
| 23:59.12 | kremonte | no more wallwalking |
| 23:59.26 | Legorol | what are the indications of it being this tuesday? |
| 23:59.30 | Beladona | LOL! |
| 23:59.34 | Beladona | I took the pirate test |
| 23:59.34 | Mondinga | if it was this tuesday |
| 23:59.41 | Beladona | Red John Roberts |
| 23:59.42 | Mondinga | why wouldnt they ahve just included the winter veil shit in it? |
| 23:59.48 | Beladona | Red John Roberts |
| 23:59.50 | Beladona | oops |
| 23:59.51 | Mondinga | i say 2 tuesdays from now, minimum |
| 23:59.56 | Beladona | <PROTECTED> |
