| 00:00.24 | Bela|WOW | not bad Cladhaire |
| 00:00.39 | iriel | Oh, by the way AnduinLothar and krka - I had dreams about draggable anchors and reverse kinematics systems last night. |
| 00:01.01 | AnduinLothar | ya, the embed is small, i've embedded other things in that menu before. as long as it's at the end it's relatively easy. a mid embed on a dropdown gets a lil hairy |
| 00:01.05 | Cair|wow | okay iriel, your dreams are officially as weird as mine :p |
| 00:01.24 | iriel | Well, it was related to the conversation here right before I went to bed. |
| 00:01.32 | AnduinLothar | well ir, u'll have to tell me all about it later. i'm off |
| 00:01.33 | iriel | I couldn't stop my head from carrying it on afterwards |
| 00:01.39 | Cair|wow | *nod* |
| 00:01.45 | Bela|WOW | you are lucky |
| 00:01.46 | Cair|wow | later AnduinLothar |
| 00:01.54 | Bela|WOW | I usually can't sleep till that stuff has reached its conclusion |
| 00:01.58 | AnduinLothar | i slept liek a rock for 12 hrs |
| 00:01.58 | Bela|WOW | in my head |
| 00:02.22 | iriel | I had to get up 6 hours later so my brain STILL hurts. |
| 00:02.32 | iriel | It's a shame today was a work day or i'd have been really productive |
| 00:02.53 | Cair|wow | bela, pop in game and hit accept :p |
| 00:02.56 | Bela|WOW | Iriel: can you recommend a BLP viewer / converter that just "works" |
| 00:03.34 | Legorol | miaow |
| 00:03.36 | iriel | Bela|WOW : No, if you find one, tell me about it |
| 00:03.40 | kremonte | i have a java app that does blp2 -> png and reverse, bela |
| 00:03.46 | iriel | I've come very close to writing my own |
| 00:03.53 | Bela|WOW | with alpha? |
| 00:03.54 | Legorol | i have one that seems to work fine.. |
| 00:03.55 | Bela|WOW | kremonte |
| 00:04.00 | kremonte | not sure ;P |
| 00:04.00 | Legorol | although didn't use it a lot |
| 00:04.06 | iriel | kremonte : Does it have source code? |
| 00:04.11 | iriel | kremonte : if so.. gimme! |
| 00:04.14 | kremonte | nope, twas teh one on curse |
| 00:04.15 | Bela|WOW | mmm |
| 00:04.20 | kremonte | unless you can think of a jar decompiler ._> |
| 00:04.25 | iriel | they exist |
| 00:04.30 | iriel | but if it doesn't do alpha it's no use to me, either |
| 00:04.45 | Bela|WOW | I saw one that does alpha, but there were issues with non-square images |
| 00:04.51 | iriel | I'd be happy with a tool to do RLE compression for TGA's |
| 00:05.05 | iriel | but BLP's do tend to be smaller |
| 00:05.10 | Bela|WOW | aye |
| 00:05.31 | Legorol | is there any documentation that you are aware of on the BLP format? |
| 00:05.43 | Bela|WOW | Iriel, they have source code on curse for the blp2decode dll |
| 00:05.46 | iriel | Legorol : Yes |
| 00:05.48 | Bela|WOW | might be useful |
| 00:05.55 | Legorol | the blp2 viewer i use on the rare occasions i need one is at http://vjeux.grabu.free.fr/BLP2/ |
| 00:05.58 | iriel | http://wowmapview.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/BLP |
| 00:06.03 | Legorol | iriel: where? |
| 00:06.09 | iriel | I want an ENCODER |
| 00:06.11 | iriel | Not a DECODER |
| 00:06.14 | Legorol | also, a good link to TGA format would be nice too |
| 00:06.31 | iriel | TGA's pretty established, that shouldn't be hard to find |
| 00:06.33 | Bela|WOW | we need to find, or just write a gui based viewer, with conversion functionality |
| 00:06.35 | Bela|WOW | to and from |
| 00:06.39 | Legorol | isgooglemyfriend? |
| 00:06.39 | iriel | NO! No GUI! |
| 00:06.44 | iriel | Command line, open source |
| 00:06.48 | Bela|WOW | bah |
| 00:06.57 | Bela|WOW | someone can always write their own gui frontend |
| 00:07.02 | Bela|WOW | so that would be fine |
| 00:07.10 | Legorol | just in case you happen to have a good reference for TGA bookmarked, i'd appreciate it |
| 00:07.13 | Legorol | otherwise googleismyfriend |
| 00:07.32 | Legorol | btw, can someone clue me in on what happened to the 1.10 thread? |
| 00:07.40 | Cair|wow | poof |
| 00:07.45 | Cair|wow | due to idiocy |
| 00:07.45 | Legorol | yah that much i gathered |
| 00:07.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=void@eacb01-00-crlnpr-24-48-144-65.miamfl.adelphia.net) |
| 00:07.47 | Bela|WOW | kapow |
| 00:07.49 | Legorol | idiocy? |
| 00:08.10 | iriel | http://www.fileformat.info/format/tga/egff.htm |
| 00:08.43 | Legorol | thanks a lot |
| 00:08.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [VV]Krirken (n=nintendo@ool-44c7662c.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:08.57 | [VV]Krirken | Hello |
| 00:09.08 | Cair|wow | the purpose of those "upcoming changes" threads is ... ? instead, a bunch of people decided to turn it into a "gimme this, gimme that" thread |
| 00:09.20 | Cair|wow | hi Krirken |
| 00:09.56 | Krirken | My IRC client got screwed up and I thought Freenode went down :( |
| 00:10.08 | iriel | I'm writing a little 'what is this thread for' note for the next time I post it. |
| 00:10.10 | Cair|wow | is that what happened to you |
| 00:10.20 | Cair|wow | *nods at Iriel* |
| 00:10.34 | Cair|wow | probably a wise idea |
| 00:10.42 | Cair|wow | unfortunate that it is necessary, but ... |
| 00:10.45 | Bela|WOW | I am a fan of locking |
| 00:10.51 | Bela|WOW | but thats up to slouken |
| 00:11.35 | futrtrubl | what is "ion" in lua? |
| 00:12.03 | iriel | the last 3 letters of a function? |
| 00:13.25 | futrtrubl | i have a lua file here where it looks like instead of "function myfunc() stuff; end" it's "ion myfunc() stuff" |
| 00:13.49 | Bela|WOW | someone screwed up |
| 00:13.51 | futrtrubl | bah, stupid editor, cut the beggining of each line off |
| 00:22.48 | Krirken | Could anyone help me with LUA reg expressions? |
| 00:23.44 | futrtrubl | EngInventory is coded wierdly |
| 00:27.00 | Bela|WOW | there isn't a way to invert a graphic for display is there? |
| 00:27.12 | Bela|WOW | like flip it |
| 00:27.49 | Bela|WOW | a default graphic mind you. Trying to avoid recreting one if I can help it |
| 00:29.44 | iriel | Flip as in L-R or T-B ? |
| 00:29.50 | Cair|wow | lr |
| 00:29.55 | iriel | SetTexCoord |
| 00:32.06 | iriel | :SetTexCoord(1,0,0,1) |
| 00:32.08 | iriel | To flip L-R |
| 00:32.32 | cladhaire | SOrry.. I had to run out.. my dog's leash broke, and i wanted to grab another before th store closed. |
| 00:33.47 | iriel | Krirken : What do you need? |
| 00:34.00 | Bela|WOW | nice, thanks Iriel |
| 00:34.11 | Bela|WOW | sorry, was afk a sec |
| 00:43.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Nomad_Wanderer (n=NomadWan@cpe-66-67-110-36.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 00:43.58 | Nomad_Wanderer | Howdy... Any cosmos devs around? I'm getting a weird Cast time error on CastTime.lua:133 |
| 00:45.25 | Cair|wow | there's a couple of them in channel Nomad, but I think they are kinda not really here atm |
| 00:46.47 | Nomad_Wanderer | np |
| 00:47.09 | MentalPower|PC | I think you'll have better luck finding them in their own channel irc://irc.datavertex.com/cosmostesters |
| 00:48.13 | Nomad_Wanderer | Ah.. .Thanks. |
| 00:48.21 | MentalPower|PC | np |
| 00:49.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (n=profi@user-12hdr8d.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 00:50.46 | norganna | Hey Mental! |
| 00:51.01 | MentalPower|PC | hey norgs! |
| 00:51.27 | Cair|wow | hey Norgs :) |
| 00:51.49 | norganna | U got a char on Draka too MP? |
| 00:51.59 | norganna | hi Cair :) |
| 00:52.12 | MentalPower|PC | draka, nop, don't think so |
| 00:52.41 | norganna | That's where all these geeks hang out (me too now) :) |
| 00:52.42 | Cair|wow | referring to this, MentalPower|PC: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2563 |
| 00:56.12 | MentalPower|PC | hmm... I'll have to create new alts there :) |
| 00:56.22 | MentalPower|PC | after this AB game is over :) |
| 00:56.33 | Cair|wow | :) |
| 00:56.41 | Cair|wow | you're more than welcome MentalPower|PC |
| 00:57.07 | Tem | is there a max number of characters that you can make? |
| 00:57.13 | norganna | It's fun talking in guild to people you actually understand :) |
| 00:57.18 | MentalPower|PC | i thinks its ~50 |
| 00:57.40 | Cair|wow | random unexplained afks while people work on their mods, answer emails, chat in irc channels, deal with forums ... others to help test mods ... |
| 00:57.40 | Tem | norganna, you've got it backwards |
| 00:57.44 | Cair|wow | gotta love it |
| 00:57.51 | Tem | it's fun to talk to people who understand you |
| 00:58.05 | norganna | best.guild.ever |
| 00:58.14 | Tem | when I miss the /script at the begining of soemthing people in my guild are like "wtf?" |
| 00:58.28 | Cair|wow | in here, you just get laughed at |
| 00:58.34 | Tem | yep lol |
| 00:58.34 | Cair|wow | for having forgotten /script |
| 00:58.35 | norganna | hehe |
| 00:58.46 | norganna | "you newb" |
| 00:59.18 | Legorol | g'evning |
| 00:59.27 | Legorol | are you guys and ladies online? |
| 00:59.29 | Cair|wow | just a couple things folks need to remember ... there is no intent whatsoever for these guilds to be like most guilds ... we aren't aiming for the high end |
| 00:59.31 | norganna | Hey matey |
| 00:59.42 | Cair|wow | and there are no "required" mods ... duh |
| 00:59.56 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 01:00.00 | iriel | I think DevTools should be our required mod 8-) |
| 01:00.01 | norganna | 'cept for ventrillo.... |
| 01:00.04 | Cair|wow | hard to require something, when folks are changing on a daily (if not hourly) basis, testing stuff |
| 01:00.44 | iriel | I think Cide needs to write CRBA (CT Break Assist) for Tem, also |
| 01:00.46 | Cair|wow | hey Legorol, yeah, some of us in |
| 01:00.47 | norganna | ow - how'd you find me? |
| 01:00.53 | Legorol | i think a high-level of XML and Lua knowledge should be required ;-) |
| 01:01.04 | Cair|wow | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:01.24 | Cair|wow | damnit Legorol :( |
| 01:01.30 | Legorol | guild entry requirement: minimum level: 1, gameplay experience: none, max. experience: lvl 10, read Lua: fluently, read XML: occasionally |
| 01:02.00 | Legorol | ehm... ok, i will rephrase |
| 01:02.09 | Legorol | read Lua: fluently, or know whom to ask to read it out for you ;-) |
| 01:02.13 | norganna | laugh a ppl who post stuff in guild chat sans the /script tag: optional |
| 01:02.16 | Cair|wow | ;) |
| 01:02.21 | iriel | The high level requirement should be lvl 60, anyway |
| 01:02.28 | Legorol | then i'd fail :( |
| 01:02.39 | Legorol | ehm... i mean |
| 01:02.45 | norganna | i'll get offset to about 30 or 40 |
| 01:02.47 | Legorol | that'd be minimum experience i guess |
| 01:02.54 | Legorol | ah, whatever |
| 01:03.08 | Legorol | woot for 1.9 not coming out yet.. |
| 01:03.18 | Cair|wow | it isn't |
| 01:03.25 | Legorol | i'm saying i'm happy it isn't ;-) |
| 01:03.30 | norganna | me 2 |
| 01:03.31 | Cair|wow | next week at the earliest, my money says not until after christmas |
| 01:03.39 | Cair|wow | *nod*, just confirming again |
| 01:03.45 | Legorol | i still have about 50 instances of GetScale in the code where i need to ponder if it should stay as GetScale or should be GetEffectiveScale instead |
| 01:03.48 | norganna | nup - i reckon next week |
| 01:03.49 | Legorol | it's giving me a headache |
| 01:04.18 | norganna | they'll be rushing to get it out before xmas |
| 01:04.42 | Cair|wow | norgs, why though? they've got the christmas content in, and they pushed 1.8.4 to deal with bugs |
| 01:05.02 | Legorol | queueueueue? |
| 01:05.20 | Legorol | wow, queue jumped from 269 to 93 |
| 01:05.23 | Legorol | did a guild just log off? |
| 01:05.26 | norganna | yeah, but (as a dev myself) I like to get stuff out of the way so it doesn't haunt me over xmas |
| 01:05.28 | Cair|wow | lol |
| 01:05.46 | Legorol | but if you know you don't have to worry about it until after xmas, it won't haunt you |
| 01:06.28 | End | I find that if I push it before christmas there will still be some huge bugs eating people while I'm not around to fix them |
| 01:06.42 | norganna | yeah, but who wnats to have their brains filled up with pseudo code over xmas, only to find in the new year that they've forgotten it all and have to reread all their code? |
| 01:06.54 | Legorol | ok, further guild requirements: vote whether Interface\AddOn\AddOnName or just AddOnName |
| 01:07.16 | norganna | i've gone back to AddOnName |
| 01:07.21 | Legorol | you prolly end up with better code that way :D |
| 01:09.12 | norganna | my reasoning for such is that blizzard create the Interface\AddOns\ directory nowadays to fill with all their own junk, so no point having it created any more |
| 01:09.28 | Legorol | except when the game is freshly installed |
| 01:09.36 | Legorol | i do see your point though |
| 01:09.37 | Cair|wow | just AddOnName |
| 01:09.44 | iriel | Legorol : Why do you need so many GetScale calls? |
| 01:09.48 | Legorol | question is, can a user be educated enough to know to go into Interface\AddOns and unzip there? |
| 01:09.58 | norganna | anybody who's installing addons straight up (without even playing the game) must be a pro |
| 01:10.04 | Legorol | iriel: it's the approximate number of GetScale calls in Cosmos |
| 01:10.05 | Cair|wow | makes explaining how to install to the n00bs easier |
| 01:10.16 | Legorol | ok, i exxagerated a little, maybe only 20 or so occurences in about 15 addons |
| 01:10.34 | Legorol | norganna: what about reinstall? |
| 01:10.52 | Legorol | i'm in favour of the just AddOnName too, the problem i found though is that in this case, |
| 01:11.02 | Legorol | you get million questions about "which directory do i extract this into again"? |
| 01:11.14 | norganna | Legorol: i think it's easier this way, cause people are used to expanding stuff into plugin dirs etc |
| 01:11.17 | Legorol | "do i extract to Interface?" "no, Interface\AddOns" |
| 01:11.24 | Legorol | are they? |
| 01:11.31 | Legorol | the average technical knowledge of WoW is much lower i think |
| 01:11.35 | norganna | yeah, stuff like winamp etc |
| 01:12.37 | norganna | re reinstall, they already should know the drill |
| 01:12.42 | Legorol | well, whichever way it goes, i wouldn't mind too much, asl ong as the community could agree on one! |
| 01:12.50 | Cair|wow | AddOnName |
| 01:12.51 | norganna | never happen :) |
| 01:14.00 | iriel | The nice thing about Interface\AddOns... |
| 01:14.03 | Cair|wow | Legorol: I find it really is easier to explain to folks if it is just AddOnName |
| 01:14.11 | iriel | Is that you're then consistent with skin packs like the ones on WoWI |
| 01:14.20 | iriel | Which will go Interface\Data |
| 01:14.29 | Legorol | that too |
| 01:14.36 | Cair|wow | yeah, well, still arguing with Tom over that one |
| 01:14.43 | norganna | i think as more people move to AddOnName format, it will pressure authors to either a) conform or b) deal with support problems when people end up with Interface/AddOs/Interface/AddOns folders |
| 01:14.46 | Legorol | Cair|wow: do they get confused if you just tell them to extract into WoW? |
| 01:14.58 | Cair|wow | Legorol: yeah, actually |
| 01:15.03 | Legorol | that's surprising.. |
| 01:15.15 | Legorol | i'd have thought that nothing is clearer then: "take this zip and extract it into your WoW folder" |
| 01:15.16 | Cair|wow | that's why my Install FAQ is written the way it is, though |
| 01:15.30 | Legorol | i guess people are not good at following instructions :( |
| 01:15.33 | iriel | Whichever way you go, people will screw it up |
| 01:15.39 | Legorol | from personal experience i know that they never are |
| 01:15.57 | norganna | the importance is that there is conformity |
| 01:16.14 | norganna | if not by everyone, then at least by the majority |
| 01:16.38 | iriel | I could convert all of mine by changing just one file |
| 01:16.41 | iriel | but i'm not sure I want to |
| 01:17.01 | Legorol | as long as we have two prominent guys like norganna and iriel following two different formats, we are screwed, tbh |
| 01:18.25 | norganna | Well, I originally went with the Interface/AddOns prefix, because there was no default Interface/AddOns dir, and getting users to create 2 dirs, one inside another was a nightmare to think about |
| 01:18.29 | iriel | The argument that blizzard now create Interface\AddOns is a reasonable supportingone for just AddonName |
| 01:18.37 | iriel | *nod* @ norganna |
| 01:18.50 | Cair|wow | *hugs her FAQ* |
| 01:19.14 | iriel | I've lost count at how many times I've referenced the FAQ |
| 01:19.21 | norganna | But now I'm just using AddOnName because it's neater, and people can see what they're getting when they open the zip in winzip or whatever |
| 01:19.47 | Legorol | yes that's a good argument |
| 01:19.55 | iriel | But we still have the 'skin pack' issue |
| 01:19.59 | norganna | plus i'm a stickler for neatness and those 2 leading dirs always made me angry |
| 01:20.02 | iriel | though I may not actually care about those. |
| 01:20.08 | Legorol | not to mention the fact that developers will have several interface folders, in which case having interface\addon\addonnname is annoying |
| 01:20.13 | Legorol | then again devs can cope either way :D |
| 01:20.44 | Legorol | at the moment, either way i have to open up every zip i download to doublecheck |
| 01:20.48 | iriel | DO you guyshave multiple interface folders? |
| 01:20.53 | norganna | yes |
| 01:20.54 | Legorol | i have about 5 |
| 01:20.58 | norganna | 8 |
| 01:20.59 | cladhaire | I have two |
| 01:21.01 | Tem | why? |
| 01:21.02 | iriel | Interesting |
| 01:21.06 | Legorol | i have scripts to switch |
| 01:21.12 | norganna | compatibility checking |
| 01:21.28 | Legorol | 1 for general gaming, that is a stable, working interface |
| 01:21.34 | norganna | i have different builds of addons |
| 01:21.43 | Legorol | so that i know that anytime i just want to get down to playing, i just switch to that one and it "just works" |
| 01:21.56 | Legorol | 1 for testing/developing, with all devtools, and very few addons, for fast reloadUI times |
| 01:22.10 | iriel | I guess my surprise is that instead of just replacing the addons you're working on with appropriate versions, you swap the whole directory out |
| 01:22.11 | Legorol | 1 for a custom skin/UI that's in the process of being built but isn't working yet |
| 01:22.27 | iriel | Do you develop on the same machine you play on? |
| 01:22.33 | Legorol | 1 for a "slim" gaming interface with just a few minimal addons ( i don't know why, but some characters i like to play with this one instead of the main one ) |
| 01:22.34 | norganna | it's faster to have a script that does it |
| 01:22.37 | Legorol | 1 for making videos |
| 01:22.50 | Legorol | iriel, i develop on same machine, yes |
| 01:22.53 | norganna | when i dev, i have just my addons loaded |
| 01:23.01 | norganna | for fast reload times |
| 01:23.04 | Legorol | i hate having to switch addons on and off one by one |
| 01:23.08 | Legorol | it's faster to swap the interface |
| 01:23.22 | iriel | Well, you swap interface and WTF togther then, I assume? |
| 01:23.27 | Legorol | actually, i guess the point is that my interface-swapping scripts swap WTF with it |
| 01:23.28 | norganna | then i have a gaming version with all my reall addons loaded |
| 01:23.29 | Legorol | yes |
| 01:23.33 | Legorol | i have interface-WTF pairs |
| 01:23.35 | norganna | iriel: yes |
| 01:23.40 | Legorol | so i can screw with savedvar files |
| 01:23.46 | Legorol | without losing auctioneer/gatherer data :D |
| 01:23.58 | Legorol | exactly like norganna said |
| 01:24.03 | norganna | i have a cosmos version (so i can test how it all works with cosmos |
| 01:24.22 | Legorol | in my case, i also have some extra interface for say "just cosmos" so i can test how Cosmos looks by itself on an end-user's machine |
| 01:24.49 | Legorol | ultimately, it comes down to the fact that i found it most convenient to have multiple interface-WTFs that i can switch with a click |
| 01:25.02 | norganna | i have several different version with various different addons that interact with my addons |
| 01:25.14 | iriel | *nod* |
| 01:25.22 | Legorol | The original reason i set it up though was this: I wanted to have at least 2 interfaces, because |
| 01:25.37 | iriel | I just have one, but I do back WTF up occasionally. |
| 01:25.39 | Legorol | i'd have a "work in progress" buggy addon that i'm debugging, and i'd have to interrupt development and go play |
| 01:25.45 | iriel | but then I dont develop on my gaming machine |
| 01:25.51 | Legorol | ok that explains it |
| 01:25.56 | iriel | so if I screw something up I can just svn update and re-deploy |
| 01:26.00 | iriel | (I still TEST on it) |
| 01:26.03 | iriel | (I just dont EDIT on it) |
| 01:26.15 | norganna | my dev machine is my laptop |
| 01:26.17 | Legorol | i think either way if you are a dev you will have at least a separate dev/gaming interface |
| 01:26.26 | iriel | But I really dont |
| 01:26.27 | norganna | and when i'm at work, i play on my laptop |
| 01:26.30 | Legorol | whether it's on same machine or no.. |
| 01:26.40 | iriel | I dont usually quit for a day with any of my addons broken |
| 01:26.44 | iriel | It's extra incentive 8-) |
| 01:26.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Krirken (n=nintendo@ool-44c7662c.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 01:26.52 | norganna | when i'm at home, i play on my pc (which has no dev files on it) |
| 01:27.01 | Legorol | well i don't have that flexibility, i have one machine, which i develop and play on |
| 01:27.09 | Legorol | at a moment's notice i might have to sit down to play |
| 01:27.11 | iriel | I Play on my gaming desktop, but do my editing on laptop or linux desktop |
| 01:27.18 | Legorol | with a half-finished addon that i'm debugging sitting in the interface folder |
| 01:27.19 | norganna | nehow |
| 01:27.26 | norganna | work time for me |
| 01:27.30 | Legorol | see ya |
| 01:27.58 | iriel | Speaking of work, err, anyone got an experience with network tunnelling with a windows client and linux host? |
| 01:28.12 | norganna | yup |
| 01:28.19 | norganna | but i gotta go :( |
| 01:28.20 | Legorol | depends on what's the linux host |
| 01:28.21 | Legorol | ssh? |
| 01:28.25 | Legorol | or lower level stuff |
| 01:28.59 | iriel | i'm talking a lower level than just ssh tunnelling (That I can do) |
| 01:29.12 | Legorol | iriel, what kind of setup are you thinking about? VPN with PPTP or someting similar? |
| 01:29.16 | iriel | Think about getting WoW past a retarded firewall |
| 01:29.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Heh |
| 01:29.31 | ScytheBlade1 | Depends on where the linux box is |
| 01:29.35 | iriel | i.e. routing some subset of address space over a VPN |
| 01:29.38 | Legorol | right |
| 01:29.47 | Legorol | i have extensive experience of that in purely windows environment, |
| 01:29.51 | iriel | if it was linux - linux I'd be set |
| 01:29.55 | Legorol | i don't have much experience of linux in that respect |
| 01:30.01 | iriel | but windows is something I try and avoid as much as possible |
| 01:30.02 | Legorol | so maybe we can pool our knowledge :D |
| 01:30.05 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 01:31.04 | ScytheBlade1 | on a windows box, if you have a remote one |
| 01:31.06 | Tem | so um, I'm having a conversation with one of the Lua devs... and he doesn't like it when people use "LUA" instead of "Lua" |
| 01:31.08 | Bela|WOW | windows isn't good about exposing tunneling to general users |
| 01:31.10 | ScytheBlade1 | You can just setup a VPN for everything |
| 01:31.15 | Legorol | ok what you'd need is a linux host running a VPN server based on either the PPTP or L2TP protocol |
| 01:31.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Win2k and higher, you can both host and connect to a PPTP VPN with minimal effort |
| 01:31.37 | Tem | "Lua isn't an acronym" |
| 01:31.42 | Bela|WOW | he would be right |
| 01:31.43 | Legorol | Bela|WOW: windows is indeed not very good, unles syou know how to configure it to the ultimate point using netsh |
| 01:31.53 | Bela|WOW | right |
| 01:32.02 | Bela|WOW | but that isn't exposing it to the general user is it? |
| 01:32.08 | Legorol | no it's not, i agree |
| 01:32.21 | Legorol | the thing is, i have experience configuring stuff in windows xp that isn't even supposed to be there ;-) |
| 01:32.30 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 01:32.34 | Legorol | MS has the same NT core and set of services for both the XP line and server products |
| 01:32.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Do you have a remote windows box? |
| 01:32.38 | Legorol | the difference is only in the GUI |
| 01:32.56 | Legorol | so there are some services that are there in XP but are not available, unles syou know how to configure it via netsh |
| 01:33.15 | Legorol | i even managed to get an error message pop up in XP once that referred to the RRAS control panel that doesn't even exist in XP :-) |
| 01:33.25 | ScytheBlade1 | hey nice |
| 01:33.29 | ScytheBlade1 | That takes skill |
| 01:33.39 | Legorol | anyway, back to the point |
| 01:33.42 | Legorol | iriel, any way we can help you? |
| 01:34.31 | iriel | well, is there a difference between the capabilities of L2Tp and PPTP? |
| 01:34.34 | ScytheBlade1 | If you have a remote (and local) windows box, setting up a VPN is about 30 seconds per side. It's the routing tables that'll get to you, if you don't want to bounce all new connections through the VPN |
| 01:34.57 | Legorol | iriel, there is, in terms of the ports they use i beleive |
| 01:35.08 | Legorol | i am not sure about performance characteristics etc. |
| 01:35.12 | Legorol | i have mostly used PPTP |
| 01:35.16 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah, okay |
| 01:35.28 | ScytheBlade1 | I've used both (L2TP is basically IPSec) |
| 01:35.33 | Cair|wow | Tem: so if anyone wants to hear one of the lua devs talk about lua hop into #lua |
| 01:35.39 | Legorol | no, L2TP and IPsec are two different things, but work together |
| 01:35.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, sorry, that's what I meant |
| 01:36.02 | Legorol | iriel: i beleive pptp is easier to set up in general |
| 01:36.07 | ScytheBlade1 | Though, I doubt encryption matters much in this case, so eh |
| 01:36.07 | Legorol | i'd suggest you try that one first |
| 01:36.27 | Legorol | if you are trying to pass through a firewall though, i presume you can't just use arbitrary ports? |
| 01:36.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge RedcXe (i=L@cpe-72-225-160-49.si.res.rr.com) |
| 01:36.42 | Legorol | do you have to pass the connection from the windows client out through a specific port? |
| 01:36.43 | kremonte | ~trout RedcXe |
| 01:36.47 | purl | ACTION slaps RedcXe around a bit with a large trout! |
| 01:36.49 | Legorol | e.g. only port 80 is allowed out or something like that.. |
| 01:37.02 | iriel | It's not that restrictive, no |
| 01:37.10 | iriel | and worst case I can do some horrible tricks with ssh |
| 01:37.15 | Legorol | does it pass non-TCP/UDP packets? |
| 01:37.31 | Legorol | yes i was going to say that you might have to tunnel the VPN connection through ssh |
| 01:37.32 | RedcXe | KREMONEE |
| 01:37.36 | RedcXe | i need ur help |
| 01:37.38 | RedcXe | ur smat i rnt |
| 01:37.58 | iriel | I already create a PPP-over-ssh vpn to home for things like irc and svn |
| 01:38.03 | Legorol | in all its gory detail: the PPTP solution of VPN in Windows uses two types of packets, both of which must be passed by the firewall: |
| 01:38.19 | Legorol | GRE packets (which is a type of IP packet like TCP and UDP packets are) |
| 01:38.37 | Legorol | and PPTP packets (which are standard TCP packets travelling to port 1723, if i remember the port correctly) |
| 01:38.56 | iriel | Hm.. the GRE part worries me a bit |
| 01:38.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Yup |
| 01:39.00 | ScytheBlade1 | 1723 |
| 01:39.02 | Legorol | depending on your firewall, the GRE may not go through |
| 01:40.27 | Tem | it's lhfig |
| 01:40.34 | Tem | (the lua dev) |
| 01:41.06 | iriel | Are the GRE packets required? |
| 01:41.09 | Legorol | yes |
| 01:41.21 | Legorol | in the windows implementation of the VPN/PPTP solution |
| 01:41.35 | Legorol | if you can't pass the GRE, you need to use VPN/L2TP instead |
| 01:41.46 | Legorol | i have lot less experience with that one i'm afraid |
| 01:42.12 | Legorol | actually, now that i think about it, L2TP is more likely to be compatible with a linux system |
| 01:42.27 | Legorol | it's a well-defined standard, whereas the PPTP/GRE solution might have MS proprietary elements to it |
| 01:44.36 | iriel | MS claim not, but apparently microsoft's PPTP implementation is a security disaster area |
| 01:46.13 | ScytheBlade1 | The only non-linux friendly stuff in MS's PPTP implimentation is their compression and encryption (MPPC/MPPE) |
| 01:46.28 | ScytheBlade1 | Both of which you can patch into the kernel (from an australian webserver) and use |
| 01:48.49 | Legorol | if this is just to get your gaming data out through a firewall and you don't need too much security (e.g. not corporate financial data), then i'd try with as few security features as possible |
| 01:48.52 | Legorol | just to get it working |
| 01:51.12 | pagefault | hunters amuse me |
| 01:51.20 | iriel | *nod*, I'll check those things out |
| 01:51.26 | iriel | and come back if I get stuck 8-) |
| 01:51.27 | pagefault | they have no idea what to do when their pet gets killed |
| 01:51.45 | iriel | We Feign Death |
| 01:51.46 | iriel | 8-) |
| 01:51.54 | iriel | (in PVE anyway) |
| 01:52.02 | pagefault | the one guy viper stinged me |
| 01:52.08 | pagefault | then I death coiled him and life tap |
| 01:52.13 | pagefault | so that was pretty much pointless for him |
| 01:53.00 | pagefault | haha what the hell |
| 01:53.09 | pagefault | an arcane missile hit me from the LM but I was ressing from the BS |
| 01:53.34 | Legorol | ScytheBlade1, you seem to know even more about this stuff than i do, so let me ask you a few things :-) |
| 01:53.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Sure :) |
| 01:53.50 | Legorol | are MPPC/MPPE the only compression/encryption options in the VPN PPTP solution in windows? |
| 01:54.12 | Legorol | are they also the compression/encryption methods used if you are using L2TP solution, or is it something else? |
| 01:54.26 | ScytheBlade1 | sec |
| 01:54.44 | Legorol | if you have a good resource for this kind of stuff, link it ;-) |
| 01:54.49 | Legorol | ah ok, i just found this in the help: |
| 01:54.53 | Legorol | In L2TP VPN connections, data is encrypted by using Internet Protocol security (IPSec). |
| 01:54.56 | ScytheBlade1 | lol, just the docs I've read around |
| 01:54.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah |
| 01:55.02 | ScytheBlade1 | L2TP goes hand-in-hand with IPSec |
| 01:55.11 | Legorol | so in PPTP, MPPC/MPPE the only option? |
| 01:55.20 | iriel | I've gotten IPSec working before |
| 01:55.32 | ScytheBlade1 | All that IPSec does is encrypt data between IP A and B, if you want to actually tunnel more than traffic from A to B (A to C through B), you have to use a tunnel (L2TP) |
| 01:55.53 | ScytheBlade1 | As far as I know, yes, MPPC/MPPE are the only options for windows stuff |
| 01:56.03 | Legorol | is ipsec necessary for L2TP, or optional? |
| 01:56.56 | ScytheBlade1 | They're two seperate things |
| 01:57.02 | ScytheBlade1 | So you could use one and not the other |
| 01:57.22 | ScytheBlade1 | lemme poke in the windows stuff real quick, sec |
| 01:57.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Wow, I just killed my windows box and I have no idea how I did it |
| 01:58.28 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah there we are |
| 01:58.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Actually, as this is off-topic, mind talking in PM? |
| 01:59.05 | pagefault | isn't irc off-topic to begin with |
| 01:59.11 | ScytheBlade1 | lol point well taken |
| 01:59.25 | ScytheBlade1 | In that case... ;) |
| 01:59.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Yes, you can use L2TP less IPSec |
| 01:59.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Make a new VPN connection, properties, Security tab, and under "Data Encryption" |
| 02:00.12 | ScytheBlade1 | No enc, option, require, require max level are the options |
| 02:00.32 | Legorol | wait, what windows version is this? |
| 02:00.38 | ScytheBlade1 | And under the networking tab, you can decide if you want a PPTP or a L2TP |
| 02:00.42 | ScytheBlade1 | XP Pro |
| 02:00.51 | Legorol | are you describing the VPN host or client settings? |
| 02:01.02 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd be using 2k if I could, but I've got a stupid HT processor :/ |
| 02:01.03 | Legorol | i see the pptp/l2tp choice in networking tab, that's fine |
| 02:01.09 | ScytheBlade1 | This is in the panel to connect to a host |
| 02:01.28 | Legorol | but in security i only see "seucirty options", and no "data encryption" |
| 02:01.39 | Legorol | actually, there is a checkbox for "require data encryption" |
| 02:01.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh right |
| 02:01.44 | Legorol | ah, i see |
| 02:01.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Click the advanced button |
| 02:01.48 | Legorol | i need to check advanced |
| 02:01.49 | Legorol | yeah |
| 02:01.50 | ScytheBlade1 | then the settings button |
| 02:01.51 | ScytheBlade1 | yup |
| 02:01.57 | Legorol | ok, hang on a sec |
| 02:02.03 | Legorol | this specifies encryption settings |
| 02:02.14 | Legorol | so if i select L2TP in networking and specify no encryption here, |
| 02:02.20 | Legorol | it means IPSec is not used for encryption |
| 02:02.22 | ScytheBlade1 | and up top, unless disabled by group policy, you should be able to kill all encryption |
| 02:02.24 | Legorol | but what about authentication? |
| 02:02.46 | Legorol | isn't ipsec also handling the authentication when running with l2tp? |
| 02:02.47 | ScytheBlade1 | MS-CHAP is the default for a windows box to use |
| 02:02.58 | ScytheBlade1 | No |
| 02:03.03 | ScytheBlade1 | IPSec is straight encryption, nothing else |
| 02:03.10 | Legorol | right |
| 02:03.31 | ScytheBlade1 | Actually, I have a really good page that explains the layers of IPSec |
| 02:03.35 | ScytheBlade1 | moment as I find it |
| 02:03.47 | kergoth | afaik ipsec can do _host_ authentication, just not user |
| 02:03.53 | iriel | How do I create a non-dialup VPN connection? |
| 02:04.09 | iriel | (or: Which option did I get wrong to end up with a dialup one) |
| 02:04.17 | ScytheBlade1 | XP? |
| 02:04.22 | ScytheBlade1 | well, 2k+? |
| 02:04.25 | Legorol | iriel: you should've selected "connect to a corporate network" or something similar at the start |
| 02:04.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah |
| 02:04.39 | iriel | Oh, there it goes |
| 02:04.45 | ScytheBlade1 | and that's it, I forgot, kergoth is right |
| 02:04.49 | iriel | I must have missed the button last time! |
| 02:04.52 | Legorol | then on the next screen, you get to choose if you want dialup or vpn |
| 02:04.57 | ScytheBlade1 | IPSec can do host or cert auth |
| 02:05.18 | Legorol | that's fine, but i only see one option to configure ipsec for VPN: |
| 02:05.22 | Legorol | the entry box for the pre-shared key |
| 02:05.27 | Legorol | is that key used for the encryption part then? |
| 02:05.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Yup |
| 02:05.50 | Legorol | ehm hold on |
| 02:05.54 | Legorol | ok now i'm confused |
| 02:05.58 | Legorol | i have a VPN client connection open here |
| 02:06.09 | Legorol | on networking tab, i selected l2tp/ipsec |
| 02:06.27 | Legorol | on security tab, there is an "ipsec settings" button |
| 02:06.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Depherios (n=Deph@67.189.88.161) |
| 02:06.41 | ScytheBlade1 | Found it! http://www.unixwiz.net/techtips/iguide-ipsec.html <-- tells you what is what in IPSec, and does it well imo |
| 02:06.45 | Legorol | when i click that, i get option for "pre-shared key auth" |
| 02:06.55 | ScytheBlade1 | That PSK is used for encryption |
| 02:06.56 | Legorol | so it seems to me that IPsec can also do authentication? |
| 02:07.05 | ScytheBlade1 | Give the wrong key, the auth will fail, so IPSec will fail |
| 02:07.12 | Legorol | ScytheBlade1, then why does the checkbox say "pre-shared key *authentication*" |
| 02:07.16 | ScytheBlade1 | It's "kind of" authentication |
| 02:07.31 | Legorol | ok let's take a step back |
| 02:07.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh okay, I see what you mean |
| 02:08.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Define "authentication" |
| 02:08.04 | Legorol | exactly |
| 02:08.06 | Legorol | please define it |
| 02:08.10 | Legorol | because i'm confused :-) |
| 02:08.13 | ScytheBlade1 | haha, okay |
| 02:08.18 | Legorol | as far as i understand, first you set up IPsec between two points |
| 02:08.19 | ScytheBlade1 | with PPTP, you can do user-based |
| 02:08.24 | ScytheBlade1 | give it a user//pass, it'll go from there |
| 02:08.30 | Legorol | then you encapsulate the L2TP packets within IPSec packets |
| 02:08.50 | Legorol | i.e. lowest layer is IPsec, then L2TP and finally PPTP is on top |
| 02:09.03 | Legorol | my understanding was that IPsec is doing the encryption part |
| 02:09.19 | Legorol | and PPTP is doing the authentication, based on what authentication options you have selected |
| 02:09.29 | Legorol | when you click on the Advanced settings in security tab |
| 02:09.36 | Legorol | e.g. ms-chap etc. |
| 02:09.42 | Legorol | so i don't understand the role of the IPsec pre-shared key |
| 02:09.56 | Legorol | please clue me up, as i think i am confused no |
| 02:09.58 | Legorol | *now |
| 02:10.01 | ScytheBlade1 | lol me too |
| 02:10.03 | ScytheBlade1 | Give me a sec here |
| 02:10.06 | Legorol | ok |
| 02:10.10 | iriel | Legorol : I think it's the other way around |
| 02:10.21 | iriel | Legorol : L2TP is the tunnel over which the IPSec packets are sent |
| 02:10.53 | ScytheBlade1 | okay, lol |
| 02:10.57 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.unixwiz.net/techtips/iguide-ipsec.html <-- read that |
| 02:11.04 | ScytheBlade1 | It'll at least clarify what IPSec is and isn't |
| 02:11.14 | ScytheBlade1 | That said, be back in 5 (have to eat something, I'm starving) |
| 02:11.40 | Legorol | iriel: that is definitely not the case |
| 02:12.11 | Legorol | can i DCC you a PDF file? |
| 02:12.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine (n=Guilloti@ns.motek-services.com) |
| 02:13.38 | iriel | Legorol : On re-reading the thing I was looking at, I agree you're right. |
| 02:13.55 | Legorol | ok |
| 02:14.08 | Legorol | what is it you are reading, if you have any resources link it ;-) |
| 02:14.14 | Legorol | i found this in Windows help btw: |
| 02:14.16 | Legorol | |IP header|ESP header|UDP header|L2TP header|PPP header|PPP payload|ESP trailer|ESP Auth trailer| |
| 02:14.28 | Legorol | that's a packet structure describing L2TP/IPsec |
| 02:14.46 | Legorol | i also found this block of text that might be helpful: |
| 02:14.48 | Legorol | L2TP encapsulates original packets first inside a PPP frame (performing compression when possible) and then inside a UDP message using port 1701. Because the UDP message is an IP payload, L2TP uses IPSec to secure the tunnel. The IPSec Internet Key Exchange (IKE) protocol negotiates security for the L2TP tunnel using certificate-based or preshared key authentication. If IPSec main mode and quick mode security associations a |
| 02:17.34 | iriel | the question is going to be whether I can get the ipsec link working right |
| 02:17.53 | ScytheBlade1 | okay |
| 02:17.54 | Bela|WOW | didn't Blizz make a change to weapons in 1.9 so that all weapons of a type (2h, 1h) will use a specific speed? |
| 02:18.07 | ScytheBlade1 | IKE is another form of key auth, more secure than PSK |
| 02:18.46 | Legorol | Bela|WOW: yes |
| 02:18.49 | iriel | This looks interesting also: http://www.tinc-vpn.org/faq |
| 02:18.58 | Legorol | ScytheBlade1, nothing could be more secure than PSK afaik |
| 02:19.04 | Legorol | IKE involves key exchange, doesn't it? |
| 02:19.12 | Legorol | whereas PSK involves exchanging the key "offline" |
| 02:19.21 | Legorol | so i'd had thought that PSK is more secure |
| 02:19.23 | ScytheBlade1 | I guess that's a matter of opinion then |
| 02:19.29 | ScytheBlade1 | PSK is static and done "offline" |
| 02:19.36 | Legorol | Bela|WOW: it's sometimes misunderstood a bit though |
| 02:19.41 | ScytheBlade1 | Though likewise can't be changed without doing through all of that |
| 02:19.58 | ScytheBlade1 | IKE can dynamically change keys as needed |
| 02:20.03 | Legorol | alghough all weapons of a type (e.g. 2H) use the same speed for *special* instant melee attacks, they use their normal speed for normal melee attacks |
| 02:20.20 | Legorol | and even if they use the same speed for special attacks, slower weapons still do more damage |
| 02:20.42 | Legorol | that's because slower weapons have a higher damage range, so even if multiplied by the same speed multiplier, you end up with higher damage |
| 02:21.03 | Legorol | ScytheBlade1: fair enough |
| 02:24.56 | Legorol | ScytheBlade1, thanks a lot for that link! very useful |
| 02:25.01 | ScytheBlade1 | It is indeed |
| 02:25.07 | ScytheBlade1 | One of the best I've ever found |
| 02:25.10 | Legorol | now i understand what the windows help files are talking about when talking about ESP, tunnel/transport mode etc. |
| 02:25.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Yup |
| 02:25.30 | Malivil|AFK | wait |
| 02:25.33 | Legorol | if i understand correctly the VPN L2TP/Ipsec is using transport mode, right? |
| 02:25.38 | Malivil|AFK | what happened to Iriel's 1.10 changes thread? |
| 02:25.51 | Legorol | apparently, poofed |
| 02:25.55 | Legorol | iriel, do you know why it poofed? |
| 02:26.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Legorol, kinda |
| 02:26.51 | ScytheBlade1 | Legorol, as it says, "It has nothing to do with a traditional VPN: it's simply a secured IP connection." |
| 02:27.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Legorol, it uses L2TP as the tunnel, and IPSec to secure the data moving over the tunnel |
| 02:27.55 | Malivil | Could it be |
| 02:28.00 | Malivil | that the 1 change that was in it |
| 02:28.03 | Malivil | was moved into 1.9? |
| 02:28.15 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Cera (i=user@c-69-181-62-117.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:29.01 | ScytheBlade1 | IPSec really is just a *mess* of acronyms, and likewise utterly confusing :P |
| 02:29.09 | ScytheBlade1 | I confuse myself more often that not |
| 02:30.17 | BO|Razag | hey peeps |
| 02:30.25 | Cair|wow | hi BO|Razag |
| 02:30.33 | BO|Razag | is it possible for an addon to log smth in a textfile |
| 02:31.08 | iriel | BO|Razag - Not in real time |
| 02:31.33 | iriel | BO|Razag - If you have chat logging enabled, you could say something and have it show up in the chat log ev entually (File is heavily buffered) |
| 02:31.59 | iriel | BO|Razag - Generally the approach is to put the thing you want into a saved variable, and then when you log out it's written to disk. |
| 02:32.21 | iriel | BO|Razag - The only downside there is (a) it has to stay in memory until then and (b) that's not a plain text file (but it's pretty close) |
| 02:32.34 | BO|Razag | hm is it written to disk on reload ui or just on logout |
| 02:33.08 | BO|Razag | i could live with reload |
| 02:33.12 | iriel | BO|Razag - ReloadUI() as well, any time the UI shuts down |
| 02:33.19 | BO|Razag | cool |
| 02:33.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge TheNerdWonder (n=thenerdw@heinze726.dacor.net) |
| 02:33.47 | iriel | Off home, see y'all later. |
| 02:33.59 | Legorol | see ya |
| 02:34.00 | BO|Razag | cu |
| 02:35.12 | Tain | Does chat get buffered for you when you reload? Do you lose anything in the middle? |
| 02:35.14 | kergoth | pptp uses a variation of GRE, but l2tp does not, correct? hmm |
| 02:35.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Not sure |
| 02:36.18 | ScytheBlade1 | All of the stuff I've ever used IPSec and PPTP for, I've never needed to care |
| 02:36.21 | SP|Sorren | who here plays a rogue? :P |
| 02:36.31 | Fanook | I think chat gets ignored until you finish reloading |
| 02:36.33 | Codayus | Me? |
| 02:36.44 | SP|Sorren | my rogue alt lives in the AH unfortunately |
| 02:37.00 | SP|Sorren | anyhow, im wondering, if someone runs away from you |
| 02:37.04 | SP|Sorren | does your autoattack pause |
| 02:37.13 | SP|Sorren | or does keep ticking, swinging immediately when you catch up? |
| 02:38.01 | Legorol | kergoth: yes |
| 02:38.12 | Fanook | sorren: i think it's the same as if you enable attack before running up |
| 02:38.14 | Legorol | i have to go afk for 10-15 mins, will you be guys still around to discuss security ;-) |
| 02:38.26 | Tain | I have a 60 Rogue |
| 02:38.28 | Legorol | i have a few more questions/points, and we might be able to get to the bottom of this together :-) |
| 02:38.35 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 02:38.37 | ScytheBlade1 | I will be |
| 02:38.38 | Codayus | Option B, I'm like, 90% sure. You can turn autoatack on for things out of range. I don't see why leaving rang would turn it off... |
| 02:38.53 | ScytheBlade1 | Autoattack keeps going |
| 02:39.00 | Tain | Yeah |
| 02:39.02 | Tain | Forever. |
| 02:39.09 | Tain | Or at least until whatever you had targetted dies |
| 02:39.11 | Tain | Or you die |
| 02:39.16 | Codayus | Yay, 5 min lag ftw... |
| 02:41.32 | ForgottenLords | is the % sign modulus division still? |
| 02:41.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Fanook (n=thenerdw@heinze726.dacor.net) |
| 02:42.06 | SP|Sorren | interesting. |
| 02:42.16 | SP|Sorren | ForgottenLords: not in lua |
| 02:42.27 | ForgottenLords | Ok, any idea how? |
| 02:42.29 | SP|Sorren | curse you bleeding hollow, why are you full :( |
| 02:42.34 | SP|Sorren | math.mod(a,b) |
| 02:42.54 | SP|Sorren | or in 1.9 per iriel, bit.mod(a,b)(for integers only) |
| 02:43.23 | ForgottenLords | coolios, thanks |
| 02:43.37 | SP|Sorren | i never saw the modulus function until iriel told me :X i did it a gimp way, but subtracting b from a until b was greater than a lol |
| 02:43.52 | kergoth | % isnt in lua 5.0. was finally added in 5.1, not that it helps us now |
| 02:44.05 | SP|Sorren | do you think they'll upgrade? :P |
| 02:44.12 | kergoth | not likely |
| 02:44.20 | SP|Sorren | can you define operator functions in lua? |
| 02:46.17 | Fanook | as in overriding +, - etc? dont think so, course you can write the function yourself and just name it add, minus, etc |
| 02:46.29 | kergoth | you can, via metatables |
| 02:46.41 | Tain | DAmn I was just typing that, I knew that one! |
| 02:46.44 | kergoth | hehe |
| 02:47.28 | SP|Sorren | metatables? |
| 02:47.43 | Tem | only the greatest feature of lua |
| 02:47.49 | SP|Sorren | i seem to be missing out :P |
| 02:47.54 | Tem | very |
| 02:48.01 | SP|Sorren | what makes them so good? |
| 02:48.13 | Tem | kergoth: I hope they do upgrade to 5.1 I want to use ... and oop strings |
| 02:48.15 | SP|Sorren | hey what do you guys use to code lua? |
| 02:48.17 | Tain | I thought that the greatest feature of Lua was that it gets you chicks. |
| 02:48.21 | kergoth | hehe |
| 02:49.08 | Tem | SP|Sorren: I'm terrible at explaining things so you might be better off reading about metatables from the lua boot |
| 02:49.10 | Tem | book |
| 02:49.17 | Tem | www.lua.org/pil |
| 02:49.21 | Fanook | i use NoteTab Light, its just a standard text editor with regex support and formatting stuff |
| 02:49.24 | Depherios | SP|Sorren: I've just been using the text editor I've had for awhile... notepad++ |
| 02:49.48 | Tain | I use either UltraEdit or notepad2 depending on which computer I'm on. |
| 02:49.49 | Codayus | emacs! |
| 02:50.21 | Tem | SP|Sorren: I use ConTEXT becuase it has syntax highlighting for every language I can think of. the only thing I has against it is a rather annoying bug with lua comments... |
| 02:50.29 | Tain | Emacs I heard of that. That's like wordpad for unix right? |
| 02:50.35 | kergoth | haha |
| 02:50.46 | Tain | Tem: Is it the multiline comment thing? |
| 02:50.52 | kergoth | haha, i love the current slashdot poll |
| 02:51.13 | kergoth | To Me, Nothingness is: a) Void b) Null c) Cipher d) Zero e) Nothing f) Jersey |
| 02:51.27 | Codayus | Tain: When the revolution comes, you will briefly regret your comments about emacs. |
| 02:51.30 | Tain | I registered my vote. |
| 02:51.55 | Tain | Hey I've always said emacs is a great operating system. All it needs is a text editor. |
| 02:52.01 | Fanook | emacs...pfft. real men use pico...cause we're lazy |
| 02:52.11 | kergoth | nano. pico has licensing problems |
| 02:52.20 | Tain | Then use nano |
| 02:52.22 | Fanook | same difference |
| 02:52.35 | SP|Sorren | use vi! |
| 02:52.40 | Tain | I echo > file everything |
| 02:52.41 | kergoth | not vi |
| 02:52.42 | kergoth | vim |
| 02:52.50 | Tain | Sure I have to rewrite all of my files from scratch if I want to change anything. |
| 02:52.56 | Tain | But it teaches you good typing skills. |
| 02:53.04 | Depherios | lol |
| 02:53.35 | Codayus | Tain: Try ed? |
| 02:53.50 | Tain | I knew an Ed once. He stole my bike. :( |
| 02:54.24 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 02:54.36 | Tain | He did. But we could never prove it. |
| 02:54.42 | Fanook | ed sucks. double-D's the cool one |
| 02:54.57 | Tain | It was a nice Huffy Sigma. Grey and white with wheelcovers. |
| 02:55.47 | Codayus | ed - all the rich features of echo - none of the usability... |
| 02:57.36 | kergoth | Fanook: hehe, that show is funny |
| 02:57.37 | Tain | Anyone on Drako.. Drakle.. Dra... what's the server name? |
| 02:57.47 | Cair|wow | Draka, yes |
| 02:57.53 | Cair|wow | 4 of us on Horde side atm |
| 02:58.15 | Tain | Draka! Ok if I ever get through the queueue I'll log on too |
| 02:58.24 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd debate playing, but I've got papers to write |
| 02:58.43 | Tain | Just plagurize, it's easier. |
| 02:58.55 | kergoth | hmm |
| 02:58.57 | kergoth | ~laziness |
| 02:58.58 | purl | LAZINESS: The quality that makes you go to great effort to reduce overall energy expenditure. It makes you write labor-saving programs that other people will find useful, and document what you wrote so you don't have to answer so many questions about it. Hence, the first great virtue of a programmer. |
| 02:59.06 | kergoth | ~botsnack |
| 02:59.06 | purl | :), kergoth |
| 02:59.14 | kergoth | i wonder |
| 02:59.15 | kergoth | ~hubris |
| 02:59.16 | purl | HUBRIS: Excessive pride, the sort of thing Zeus zaps you for. Also the quality that makes you write (and maintain) programs that other people won't want to say bad things about. Hence, the third great virtue of a programmer. |
| 02:59.24 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 02:59.25 | kergoth | ~impatience |
| 02:59.26 | purl | IMPATIENCE: The anger you feel when the computer is being lazy. This makes you write programs that don't just react to your needs, but actually anticipate them. Or at least that pretend to. Hence, the second great virtue of a programmer. |
| 02:59.27 | Tain | Nice |
| 02:59.30 | kergoth | awesome |
| 02:59.31 | ScytheBlade1 | Tain, true, but beside the point :) |
| 02:59.41 | Osagasu | I'll be on when the 70 people ahead of me die. |
| 02:59.43 | kergoth | ~fear of complexity |
| 02:59.45 | Osagasu | or get in game |
| 02:59.47 | kergoth | aw |
| 02:59.51 | kergoth | someone needs to add rml's addition |
| 03:00.18 | Tain | ~caffeine |
| 03:00.21 | purl | caffeine is probably the nectar of the gods in concentrated form or the jiuce which runs through our veins |
| 03:01.08 | Tain | Oh just be careful where you plagurize from. I hear teachers and professors and whatnot know how to use this Internet thing and search for papers. |
| 03:02.22 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 03:02.31 | ScytheBlade1 | This is English 1010 - taken in a high school for college credit |
| 03:03.04 | ScytheBlade1 | That, and my teacher knows my voice when I write - so she'd notice really, really quickly |
| 03:04.56 | SP|Sorren | your teacher knows your writing voice O_o |
| 03:05.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Disturbingly well (despite only having turned in two (of three total) papers so far |
| 03:05.56 | kergoth | ~fear of complexity is <reply> FEAR OF COMPLEXITY: That which causes you to implement as little as possible, as simplicity is easier to fix. Hence, the fourth great virtue of a programmer. |
| 03:05.58 | purl | okay, kergoth |
| 03:06.04 | kergoth | there we are |
| 03:06.31 | Tain | That's why you have to plan the first day of class. Vary your writing style so that you won't get nailed. |
| 03:06.55 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 03:06.57 | Tem | Tain: yes it's the multiline comment thing that annoys me in ConTEXT, have you seen it in other apps? |
| 03:07.26 | SP|Sorren | nulkris's wowinterface thingamy has a problem w/ multiline comments :/ |
| 03:07.47 | SP|Sorren | that and its really laggy if you've a lot of code 8) |
| 03:08.41 | kergoth | purl: no, fear of complexity is <reply> FEAR OF COMPLEXITY: That which causes you to implement as little as possible, as simplicity is easier to fix. As well, that which prevents feature creep due to the environmental damage it causes. Hence, the fourth great virtue of a programmer. |
| 03:08.43 | purl | kergoth: okay |
| 03:09.32 | Tem | ~all hail kergoth |
| 03:09.42 | Tem | ~hail kergoth |
| 03:09.45 | purl | ACTION bows down to kergoth and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 03:09.49 | kergoth | hehe |
| 03:09.51 | Tem | ~paise kergoth |
| 03:10.03 | Tem | good lord I can't type |
| 03:10.04 | Depherios | +r |
| 03:10.09 | Tem | ~priase kergoth |
| 03:10.16 | SP|Sorren | :( |
| 03:10.18 | Tem | ... |
| 03:10.23 | Tem | ~praise kergoth |
| 03:10.26 | purl | All hail kergoth! |
| 03:10.36 | SP|Sorren | there ya go :) |
| 03:10.50 | Tem | that only took 5 tries XD |
| 03:10.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Blah. Anyone here run a mediawiki that could tell me how to make people register before they can edit? |
| 03:11.12 | ScytheBlade1 | http://dev.brantleyonline.com/wiki/index.php/Special:Ipblocklist <-- I'm having a slight spam problem :P |
| 03:12.15 | Fanook | Tem: regarding the multiline comment thing, I assume you have the .chl file for lua? |
| 03:13.14 | Tem | Fanook: yes |
| 03:13.24 | kergoth | hmm, i've never seen http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/C/creeping-elegance.html before |
| 03:13.35 | kergoth | but i suspect the ace community could inadvertantly fall in that direction if it isnt careful :) |
| 03:13.55 | Tem | hah |
| 03:14.05 | Tem | that's the reason I have 24 mods on my TODO list |
| 03:14.12 | kergoth | hehe |
| 03:14.19 | kergoth | making it more and more elegant instead of finishing it? |
| 03:14.26 | kergoth | i'm guilty of that as well |
| 03:14.38 | Tem | I do that all the time |
| 03:14.56 | Fanook | heh, i really need to post an updated version of my mod |
| 03:14.59 | Tem | Fanook: please tell me you were about to give me a solution |
| 03:15.03 | kergoth | its part of why i'm thinking about leaving copmuting as a profession |
| 03:15.21 | kergoth | i act more like an artist whose medium is code, than a "software engineer" |
| 03:15.34 | Legorol^afk | back |
| 03:15.46 | Fanook | Tem: hang on, testing it before i make a complete fool of myself :) |
| 03:15.48 | Legorol^afk | ScytheBlade1, I think I might have |
| 03:15.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Might have...? |
| 03:16.01 | Legorol | I might have figured out what's going on with ipsec in windows xp |
| 03:16.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah |
| 03:16.31 | Legorol | the confusion that we had was because there are two types of authentication, and they are both being used, i think |
| 03:16.51 | Legorol | "authentication" in the IPSec layer means ensuring that the data has not been tampered with |
| 03:16.55 | ScytheBlade1 | yup |
| 03:17.01 | Legorol | it is achieved via hashing, etc. |
| 03:17.02 | Fanook | Tem: bah, nm. was hoping setting the blockcommentbeg and blockcommentend lines would fix it, but as far as i can tell, it doesnt |
| 03:17.03 | Tem | Fanook: ConTEXT doesn't use regexen in it's highlighter files |
| 03:17.13 | Fanook | i can see that |
| 03:17.22 | Tem | but that would fix it |
| 03:17.24 | Legorol | "authentication" in the PPP layer means verification of user credentials (uname, pw etc.) |
| 03:17.40 | Tem | --[^\[] |
| 03:17.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah k |
| 03:17.55 | Legorol | in so far that i can tell from the Windows help files, this is what's happening when you select VPN L2TP/IPsec |
| 03:18.04 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah, okay, that makes more sense |
| 03:18.11 | Legorol | an IPsec connection is established between the two endpoints |
| 03:18.16 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah |
| 03:18.22 | ScytheBlade1 | And that's *all* that IPSec is |
| 03:18.29 | Legorol | yep |
| 03:18.35 | Legorol | depending on the encryption settings in the Advanced part of the Security tab, IPsec provides various features |
| 03:18.46 | Legorol | Here is the list: |
| 03:18.46 | Legorol | No encryption. Authentication Header (AH) is used. |
| 03:18.46 | Legorol | Optional encryption. If the other computer requests or requires secured communication, IPSec offers security levels ranging from ESP/3DES to AH/MD5. |
| 03:18.46 | Legorol | Session key perfect forward secrecy (PFS) is not enabled unless the other computer requests it. If ESP cannot be negotiated, AH is used. |
| 03:18.47 | Legorol | Required encryption. The computer requires secured communication. The security that is offered is the same as Optional encryption, except that ESP encryption is required. |
| 03:18.48 | Fanook | Tem: that's weird. it works fine for c++, but not for lua |
| 03:18.49 | Tem | I suggested it at their site, but it was sort of shoved aside |
| 03:18.49 | Legorol | Maximum strength encryption. The computer requires secured communication and 3DES ESP encryption. |
| 03:18.50 | Cair|wow | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=279257&p=1&tmp=1#post279257 |
| 03:18.52 | ScytheBlade1 | Yup |
| 03:19.05 | Cair|wow | (as an aside) |
| 03:19.07 | Legorol | IPsec will always provide "authentication" on the packets it encapsulates, at least in windows xp |
| 03:19.39 | Tem | Fanook: the problem is that it interprets the single line comments as "ignore the rest of this line" and lua's multiline coment /starts/ with a single line comment |
| 03:19.48 | Legorol | it will either use authentication using AH (if you selected no encryption in the advanced settings) or use authentication using EPS (if you selected that you require encryption) |
| 03:20.06 | Legorol | the key that it uses for the authentication is either dynamically exchanged using IKE, |
| 03:20.10 | Fanook | Tem: ah, that would explain it. makes sense |
| 03:20.12 | ScytheBlade1 | or PSK |
| 03:20.17 | Legorol | or is set statically if you check the checkbox in the Ipsec settings |
| 03:20.18 | Legorol | yep |
| 03:20.30 | Legorol | so all this authentication is on the ipsec level to verify data integrity |
| 03:20.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Make sense why that's labeled "authentication" now - but in a sense, it isn't? |
| 03:20.37 | Legorol | and that's all |
| 03:20.47 | Legorol | it authenticates the payload |
| 03:20.54 | Legorol | i guess it's a bad use of the word, |
| 03:21.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Yup, pretty much ;) |
| 03:21.11 | Legorol | but seems from the ipsec link you linked, that the term "authentication" is used for this process |
| 03:21.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, IPSec and either authenticate (verify) or encrypt, or both |
| 03:21.47 | Legorol | i don't think in windows you can ask for no authenticate (verify) |
| 03:21.48 | kergoth | i dont see it as a bad use of the word. it seems to be remnicsent of ssh's host key exchange. prevents a man-in-the-middle attack |
| 03:21.54 | Legorol | it's either auth or auth + encrypt |
| 03:22.18 | ScytheBlade1 | yup |
| 03:22.19 | Legorol | kergoth, true, it was just confusing us because both ipsec and ppp have options for "authentication" |
| 03:22.27 | kergoth | right, ppp is _user_ auth |
| 03:22.30 | kergoth | :) |
| 03:22.53 | Legorol | well the use of the word "authentication" is used differently in the two cases, i'd say |
| 03:23.05 | kergoth | no, its both authentication |
| 03:23.06 | Legorol | one is data-integrity check, the other is credential check |
| 03:23.10 | kergoth | the difference is _what_ you're authenticating |
| 03:23.28 | Legorol | ok however you like to look at it |
| 03:23.59 | Legorol | it's just my understanding that the role of authentication in ipsec isn't limited to host credential verification, |
| 03:24.05 | Legorol | it is more general than that |
| 03:24.07 | ScytheBlade1 | Not at all |
| 03:24.28 | ScytheBlade1 | It's closer to data-layer than protocol-layer |
| 03:24.37 | ScytheBlade1 | So yeah |
| 03:24.58 | kergoth | on another note, http://ozlabs.org/~rusty/index.cgi/tech/2005-09-17.html is a link to one of rusty's pages talking about his "Fear of Complexity" programmer virtue |
| 03:25.27 | Legorol | anyways, i'm happy with all this, i think i now understand how it works in windows |
| 03:25.30 | Legorol | thanks for the link, ScytheBlade1 |
| 03:25.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Sure :) |
| 03:25.57 | kergoth | tunnels are fun |
| 03:26.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Just so you know - there's several tools out there for windows to provide IPSec less the windows stuff |
| 03:27.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphon (n=masked@c-67-183-238-150.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 03:27.27 | Legorol | probably |
| 03:27.36 | Legorol | i do like to use windows' in-built features as much as possible ;-) |
| 03:27.38 | kergoth | at my last job, i set something up where you have site A, say with 3 internet links, and site B, say with 2. I set up a network of 6 lightweight GRE tunnels and packet based load balanced the traffic between the two sites across the tunnel network with appropriate weighting in order to make it seem to be one big fat pipe between the sites |
| 03:27.41 | kergoth | fun stuff |
| 03:27.52 | Legorol | call me a windowsamaniac, but i like to know as much of windows inside-out as possible |
| 03:28.01 | kergoth | you're a windowsamaniac! |
| 03:28.04 | Legorol | one thing that you can rely on on a windows system that windows is there :-) |
| 03:28.08 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 03:28.13 | ScytheBlade1 | Fun indeed, I want that kind of job |
| 03:28.25 | ScytheBlade1 | I'll take linking sites together over spyware removal any day |
| 03:28.48 | Legorol | both are IT jobs, i want that kind of job ;-) |
| 03:28.54 | kergoth | it sucked though, i was stuck adding features to a legacy codebase on an old product :( |
| 03:28.57 | kergoth | unmaintainable pile of crap |
| 03:28.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah |
| 03:29.05 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, I know that feeling |
| 03:29.12 | kergoth | put it this way |
| 03:29.19 | kergoth | its an embedded linux network appliance right |
| 03:29.21 | Legorol | besides now i think i know what's going on in windows, i might be able to suggest iriel what to try |
| 03:29.22 | kergoth | web and telnet interfaces |
| 03:29.40 | ScytheBlade1 | my problem will be sharing an access database (multiple clients read/write at the same time) - over a VPN to multiple sites |
| 03:29.50 | Legorol | seems to me he could either try L2TP/IPsec, or PPTP with EAS/MD5 auth (which is not MS proprietary) |
| 03:29.53 | kergoth | to add one feature, you need to add _each question_ to the telnet interface one by one, in the C code, then create the html, then modify the web codebase to handle all the variables in that new web page |
| 03:30.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Ouch :/ |
| 03:30.08 | kergoth | my god, its like they had never heard of code generation |
| 03:30.10 | Fanook | access supports multiple client access now? |
| 03:30.16 | kergoth | use a menu definition format, for gods sake |
| 03:30.17 | kergoth | </rant> |
| 03:31.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Well |
| 03:31.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Time to conjure up a paper |
| 03:32.05 | ScytheBlade1 | So, afk (or at least trying to be afk, stupid IRC) |
| 03:32.31 | kergoth | ~unproductivity |
| 03:32.32 | purl | yay! |
| 03:39.46 | Tem|WoW | wow, I'm actually pissed off at my guild |
| 03:39.48 | Tem|WoW | this is rare |
| 03:40.25 | Tem|WoW | looks like non guildies are going to get in on a zg raid over me |
| 03:42.08 | kergoth | .. wtf? |
| 03:43.43 | Fanook | mmmm chicken pot pie |
| 03:44.17 | clad|sleep | thats BS tem |
| 03:49.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-66-123-190-42.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 03:51.03 | Iriel | Legorol : Thank you for at least noting that hooking an existing OnEvent is hackish. I decided to stay away from hooking entirely in my response becasue I think newbies overuse it 8-) |
| 03:56.34 | Legorol | i'll edit my post to emphasise he shouldn't use this method |
| 03:56.55 | Iriel | I think your post was fine! |
| 03:57.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge GenNMX (n=generalm@pcp0011052198pcs.longhl01.md.comcast.net) |
| 03:57.51 | Iriel | I was just contrasting it to the sometimes too-eager cries of "Yes you can get events without a frame, just hook XYZ" 8-) |
| 03:59.07 | Legorol | since there is a way, i thought might as well. in retrospect, a shorter: "yes it's possible, but really not recommended, is this really really really what you want?" would've been better |
| 03:59.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge AnduinLothar (n=KarlKFI@adsl-67-125-157-11.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 03:59.51 | Iriel | Oh no, AnduinLothar is here, we should stop talking about how hooking is bad 8-) |
| 04:00.03 | Legorol | question is, what type of hooking ;-) |
| 04:00.25 | Cair|wow | embedded hookers! |
| 04:00.31 | pagefault | man |
| 04:00.36 | pagefault | there are hardly any 48 mobs here |
| 04:00.45 | Legorol | i don't agree that hooking is bad, but i do agree that hooking UIParent's OnEvent is bad |
| 04:02.43 | Legorol | Iriel, you got home? woot |
| 04:02.53 | Legorol | whilst you were in-transit, we completely dissected IPsec |
| 04:03.22 | AnduinLothar | um, so you just dont think event handler hooking is good |
| 04:03.39 | Iriel | If you dont have a REALLY good reason to not create a Frame, no. |
| 04:03.48 | AnduinLothar | but you're fine with event handler librariess like what ace does |
| 04:03.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@c-66-229-214-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:04.18 | Legorol | AnduinLothar, i was specifically thinking of hijacking event handler functions so you don't have to have a frame |
| 04:04.30 | AnduinLothar | which i've done before |
| 04:04.39 | Legorol | i'm not saying it never should be done |
| 04:04.48 | Legorol | only that it should come with a "use with caution" sign |
| 04:04.52 | Legorol | you know what you are doing, so you are fine |
| 04:05.07 | Legorol | but lots of Lua noobs go around saying "i dont' need a frame, i'll just hook an existing event handler" |
| 04:05.16 | Legorol | rather than slapping in an XML |
| 04:05.37 | AnduinLothar | i use it spcificly for libs because i dont think libs should have any xml elements except maybe batch loading lua files |
| 04:06.02 | Tem | I was trying to get FedUpWithGuild |
| 04:06.04 | Tem | but it didn't fit |
| 04:06.06 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : But you only do that because we DONT have a means of dynamic frame instantiation |
| 04:06.08 | Tem | so I just gave up |
| 04:06.13 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 04:06.14 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 04:06.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Doh, stupid IRC, die already, I need to write this paper |
| 04:06.49 | AnduinLothar | but i'm tempted to make a lib just for event handling |
| 04:07.06 | AnduinLothar | or slap it in Stubby |
| 04:07.19 | AnduinLothar | so my OnDemand loading addons dont load any xml |
| 04:08.47 | Iriel | I actually think UIParent is a very bad choice of frame... |
| 04:09.04 | Iriel | I wonder if it's better to iterate over huge number of frames and find one without an event handler. |
| 04:09.05 | AnduinLothar | only because it OnUpdates |
| 04:09.29 | Iriel | That way, more than one of you wont trample one another |
| 04:09.44 | AnduinLothar | they'd have to be always visible |
| 04:09.51 | Iriel | not for events |
| 04:09.54 | Iriel | for OnUpdate, yes |
| 04:10.01 | AnduinLothar | right, my bad |
| 04:10.03 | Iriel | but that's a slightly different matter |
| 04:10.10 | Legorol | Iriel, come play with us on Draka ;-) |
| 04:10.12 | Iriel | You never Unregister OnUpdate |
| 04:10.23 | AnduinLothar | you could |
| 04:10.26 | Iriel | Legorol : I've got too much crap to do right now. |
| 04:10.41 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : What I mean is, there's no frame:UnregisterOnUpdate() method |
| 04:10.44 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : beyond Hide() |
| 04:11.01 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 04:11.10 | Iriel | whereas if you're stealing UIParent's OnEvent handler, then yo ucan run into problems if you and another piece of code start registering and unregistering differing event sets |
| 04:11.11 | AnduinLothar | talking event |
| 04:11.31 | AnduinLothar | mmm, right. that's the point of an event handler lib |
| 04:11.42 | AnduinLothar | checks to make sure noo one's using it before unreging |
| 04:11.43 | Iriel | The point of a lib is so that code using the lib doesn't worry about it |
| 04:11.51 | Iriel | But that doesn't do ANYTHING for the non-lib code |
| 04:12.03 | Iriel | This is the same attitude that meant everyone screwed up unhooking 8-) |
| 04:12.15 | AnduinLothar | right, but if ur using a lib the lib would have a frame, not use a premade one |
| 04:12.26 | SP|Sorren | woudl it be bad to call UnitRangedDamage() with every autoshot? |
| 04:12.28 | Iriel | Unless it's embeddable |
| 04:12.36 | Iriel | SP|Sorren | Probably not |
| 04:12.40 | AnduinLothar | you wouldn't make an embeddable framehandler |
| 04:12.50 | Iriel | SP|Sorren | it's an in-memory lookup and shots dont happen that often. |
| 04:13.00 | SP|Sorren | every 3 seconds or so |
| 04:13.04 | SP|Sorren | cool, thx |
| 04:13.05 | SP|Sorren | :D |
| 04:13.11 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : Why not? People do embeddable OnUpdates |
| 04:13.24 | AnduinLothar | you could theorheticly if u use UIParnet, but it would conflict with anythign else hookign it. tho i dont see anyone hooking it on a regualr basis |
| 04:14.29 | AnduinLothar | speaking of hooks i need to update seahooks to work to the new sea |
| 04:15.17 | AnduinLothar | thinking of makign all my libs start with ! |
| 04:15.45 | Iriel | ! ? |
| 04:16.05 | AnduinLothar | !SeaHooks, !ImprovedErrorFrame |
| 04:16.12 | AnduinLothar | loads first |
| 04:17.08 | Iriel | Why not go with " SeaHooks" ? |
| 04:17.16 | AnduinLothar | mmm, nah. that messes up optdeps |
| 04:17.23 | kergoth | that isnt always correct, anyway. load order isnt guaranteed to be alphabetic |
| 04:17.26 | Iriel | Ah yes |
| 04:17.27 | AnduinLothar | i'll just leave it then |
| 04:17.30 | Iriel | kergoth : it's observed to be |
| 04:17.32 | kergoth | i've seen XP boxes load them by modification date |
| 04:17.40 | kergoth | and my linux box does the same |
| 04:17.47 | ForgottenLords | anyone here knowledgeable regarding Regular Expressions? |
| 04:17.56 | Iriel | kergoth : Interesting.. not necessarily a very well tested assertion then 8-) |
| 04:18.00 | kergoth | hehe |
| 04:18.01 | Iriel | ForgottenLords : yes ? |
| 04:18.40 | ForgottenLords | I need a regular expression that means a string enclosed by < and > eg '<Example>' and <test> |
| 04:18.53 | Iriel | Certainly the TOC file doesn't guarantee any load order beyond dependency resolution. |
| 04:18.56 | ForgottenLords | I was given \<(.*)\> but it doesnt seem to work |
| 04:19.02 | SB1[afk] | \<(.?)\> iirc |
| 04:19.09 | Iriel | ForgottenLords "<(.-)>" |
| 04:19.38 | SB1[afk] | bbl :P |
| 04:19.39 | ForgottenLords | Thanks Iriel. |
| 04:19.48 | ForgottenLords | that's the second time today you've helped me out :) |
| 04:20.49 | Tain | Or you could use (I think) (%b<>) |
| 04:21.02 | SP|Sorren | thats a tricky one |
| 04:21.27 | Iriel | Tain: That depends what the correct response for <ABC <DEF> GHI> is |
| 04:21.38 | Tain | Yeah that's what i was thinking Iriel, and I'm not sure. |
| 04:21.42 | Tain | But now i want to know. |
| 04:21.59 | Legorol | Tain, how many bags you said you needed? 4 in total, right? |
| 04:22.03 | Iriel | I mean, as a requirement, rather than what lua will do 8-) |
| 04:22.09 | Iriel | Oooh.. a BAGMAKER! |
| 04:22.14 | Tain | Yeah, 4 if you can. |
| 04:22.42 | Bela|WOW | would <(.*?)> not also work, just in case there are variables? |
| 04:22.53 | Iriel | You mean .- |
| 04:22.56 | Iriel | LUA doesn't do .*? |
| 04:22.59 | Iriel | That's perl |
| 04:23.00 | Bela|WOW | ahh |
| 04:23.27 | Iriel | (And java does .*-, just to be difficult) |
| 04:23.34 | Bela|WOW | hehe |
| 04:23.37 | SP|Sorren | there's no or in lua regex right? |
| 04:23.48 | Iriel | SP|Sorren | Right, well, not at the expression level |
| 04:23.49 | Bela|WOW | wish regex was standard |
| 04:23.51 | Legorol | Tain, 4 in the mail |
| 04:24.04 | Tain | Thanks Legorol! |
| 04:24.11 | SP|Sorren | k :/ |
| 04:24.12 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:24.13 | Legorol | i just promoted myself to guild tailor |
| 04:24.24 | Tain | I second it. |
| 04:24.26 | Iriel | AnduinLothar ".*?" |
| 04:24.37 | kergoth | .*? is a non-greedy match, isnt it? |
| 04:24.39 | Legorol | but no | syntax in Lua regex |
| 04:24.41 | Iriel | In perl it is, yes |
| 04:24.43 | kergoth | my regex is rusty |
| 04:24.43 | Legorol | .* is greedy |
| 04:24.44 | kergoth | not just perl |
| 04:24.47 | Iriel | In LUA it's .- |
| 04:24.53 | Iriel | In java it's .*- |
| 04:24.56 | Iriel | Pay attention! 8-) |
| 04:24.58 | AnduinLothar | ah, non-greedy right |
| 04:25.26 | Tain | Well .*? wouldn't work at all since ? is a special character in Lua matching. |
| 04:25.35 | Iriel | No because that's syntactically invalid |
| 04:25.43 | Iriel | ? is 0 or 1 of the preceding thing |
| 04:25.51 | Iriel | but .* isn't a 'thing' |
| 04:25.54 | Tain | I know that's what I'm saying. |
| 04:26.00 | Tain | Lua will interpret it as a problem. |
| 04:26.03 | Iriel | Oh.. Sorry, misread 8-) |
| 04:26.16 | Tain | Pay attention! 8-) |
| 04:26.17 | Tain | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:26.18 | Legorol | Iriel, does Mr. Toc need bags? |
| 04:27.16 | Iriel | Legorol : He does indeed, I believe he still needs 2 |
| 04:27.33 | Legorol | ok |
| 04:27.41 | Legorol | 1 in mail now, 1 later when i get more linen |
| 04:27.51 | Iriel | The only catch with "(%b<>)" is that you get the <>'s |
| 04:28.08 | Iriel | Legorol : Cool, thanks.. no hurry on the other, since I wotn be playing much until after christmas! |
| 04:28.47 | Fanook | wait, so why wouldn't <(.*)> be the correct choice here? wouldnt you want to match the outermost '>'? |
| 04:28.59 | Iriel | Fanook : Not necessarily |
| 04:29.07 | Tain | It depends what you want. |
| 04:29.14 | Iriel | Fanook Some people would want "<Cheese> <Onion>" to yield "Cheese" |
| 04:29.16 | Tain | If you want the outermost, or you want not the outermost. |
| 04:29.22 | Fanook | good point |
| 04:29.33 | Tain | I always want cheese. |
| 04:29.38 | SP|Sorren | has anyone here used combat sentry gizmo? |
| 04:30.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge RedcXe (i=L@cpe-72-225-160-49.si.res.rr.com) |
| 04:32.10 | kergoth | i'd probably go with something like "<[^<>]+>", assuming lua's regex supports character classes. i dont know much about lua's string patterns. need to fix that |
| 04:32.30 | Fanook | it's on the wiki |
| 04:36.21 | Iriel | kergoth : Yes, we have character classes |
| 04:36.31 | kergoth | good good |
| 04:40.21 | *** part/#wowi-lounge clad|sleep (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-51-225.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 04:48.34 | AnduinLothar | ew, queues everywhere.. |
| 04:57.53 | Iriel | Draka had a queue of '2' when I fired up the client |
| 04:58.03 | AnduinLothar | 30 here |
| 05:04.50 | AnduinLothar | bah, arch isn't being nice with it' death detection |
| 05:04.54 | AnduinLothar | :( |
| 05:06.19 | kergoth | haha, http://thedailywtf.com/ |
| 05:06.22 | kergoth | havent been there in too long |
| 05:06.24 | futrtrubl | Cair around? |
| 05:11.27 | Cair|wow | aye,sorta |
| 05:13.29 | AnduinLothar | silly... Archaeologist_PlayerCheckDead() just isn't getting called onload |
| 05:17.24 | AnduinLothar | well... it says it is... but call it again and it works fine.. |
| 05:17.52 | AnduinLothar | worked that time O.o |
| 05:17.57 | RedcXe | Congratulations! Your credit card has been successfully recorded! Tales of this historic moment will be told and retold down through the generations. Way to go! |
| 05:19.43 | AnduinLothar | GoToBar is my new best friend |
| 05:23.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@c-67-171-124-6.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:27.55 | AnduinLothar | Sea and SeaHooks updated on WoWI |
| 05:31.13 | SP|Sorren | anyone around? i'm having a strange problem with an addon i made to move the worldstateframe |
| 05:31.59 | AnduinLothar | which one is that? |
| 05:32.08 | SP|Sorren | er not the worldstateframe |
| 05:32.13 | SP|Sorren | the worldstatealwaysupframe |
| 05:32.15 | SP|Sorren | shows the ab scores |
| 05:32.16 | SP|Sorren | and such |
| 05:32.23 | AnduinLothar | ah, ya. 2 of um |
| 05:32.30 | AnduinLothar | mobile with MobileFrames |
| 05:32.40 | AnduinLothar | spose u jsut want those moved tho, eh |
| 05:32.57 | Cair|wow | approved |
| 05:33.01 | AnduinLothar | thx cair |
| 05:33.07 | Cair|wow | np Karl :) |
| 05:33.23 | SP|Sorren | well what did was just make little a frame then setpoint the worldstatealwaysupframe to it(after clearingallpoints) |
| 05:33.24 | AnduinLothar | still dont like that each vers needs approval, but w/e |
| 05:33.44 | SP|Sorren | but when i start wow, the worldstatealwaysupframe wont show in ab unless i make the anchor show |
| 05:33.57 | AnduinLothar | not surprising |
| 05:34.00 | Depherios | does teh WSAUF ever get set upsing "parent" or something? |
| 05:34.03 | Depherios | oh... |
| 05:35.15 | AnduinLothar | you'll have to add an OnShow hook to one or both of the WSAUF and have it show the parent |
| 05:35.24 | AnduinLothar | same with OnHide |
| 05:36.07 | SP|Sorren | does setting the top right corner of the wsauf to an anchor make that anchor the parent? |
| 05:36.14 | AnduinLothar | not sure if the framescript fires if the parent is hidden tho, might have to hook the function itself |
| 05:36.16 | SP|Sorren | it'll show up |
| 05:36.20 | SP|Sorren | then if i hide the anchor |
| 05:36.29 | SP|Sorren | the wsauf will still be there |
| 05:36.35 | SP|Sorren | but i have to show the anchor again next ab |
| 05:36.52 | AnduinLothar | right, hook the show and hides |
| 05:37.13 | AnduinLothar | and no setpoint does not assign parent |
| 05:37.20 | AnduinLothar | have to use SetParent |
| 05:37.41 | SP|Sorren | so why would i need to hook the onhide and onshow if i only set a point |
| 05:37.43 | SP|Sorren | :/ |
| 05:37.54 | AnduinLothar | in order to hide the anchor |
| 05:37.57 | AnduinLothar | and then show it again |
| 05:38.18 | futrtrubl | My internet penis is here! |
| 05:38.26 | SP|Sorren | is it a monster? |
| 05:38.27 | AnduinLothar | ok, if ur not usign parent then you dont need to hook the function, just the script element |
| 05:38.53 | futrtrubl | yes. hey regular penis *SHUN* |
| 05:39.07 | SP|Sorren | thats an awesome flash :) |
| 05:39.27 | SP|Sorren | how would i hook the script element? |
| 05:39.40 | SP|Sorren | im not quite sure what you mean by that :P |
| 05:39.43 | Cair|wow | *blinks at futrtrubl* |
| 05:39.51 | AnduinLothar | Sea.util.hook("WorldStateAlwaysupFrame1", "MyAddon_ShowAnchor", "after", "OnShow") |
| 05:40.05 | AnduinLothar | Sea.util.hook("WorldStateAlwaysupFrame1", "MyAddon_HideAnchor", "after", "OnHide") |
| 05:40.13 | futrtrubl | have you not seen that Cair? |
| 05:40.27 | AnduinLothar | you coudl do it manually but that's like 4 lines i dont feel like explainign |
| 05:40.29 | Cair|wow | nope |
| 05:41.06 | AnduinLothar | embed SeaHooks if you want. it's easy and then you dont have to think about how to do it manually |
| 05:41.11 | SP|Sorren | blah, that would require getting sea :) |
| 05:41.20 | futrtrubl | let me find the link ;'] |
| 05:41.28 | AnduinLothar | nah, just embed the hook mini-lib |
| 05:41.34 | SP|Sorren | but i dont want to show the anchor |
| 05:41.45 | SP|Sorren | i want to just show the alwaysupframe when ab starts without having to show the anchor |
| 05:42.16 | AnduinLothar | ok, so what's the problem? |
| 05:42.23 | SP|Sorren | when ab starts |
| 05:42.27 | SP|Sorren | i have no alwaysupframe |
| 05:42.30 | SP|Sorren | i have to show my anchor |
| 05:42.33 | SP|Sorren | for it to pop out |
| 05:42.37 | AnduinLothar | hmm |
| 05:42.39 | SP|Sorren | if i hide my anchor |
| 05:42.40 | SP|Sorren | it stays out |
| 05:42.43 | SP|Sorren | at least until the next game |
| 05:42.45 | AnduinLothar | hmm |
| 05:42.46 | SP|Sorren | er not the anchor |
| 05:42.48 | SP|Sorren | the alwaysupframe |
| 05:42.55 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 05:43.19 | AnduinLothar | ok, so when is WorldStateAlwaysupFrame1:Show() normally called? |
| 05:43.41 | SP|Sorren | im assuming when ab starts 8) |
| 05:43.49 | SP|Sorren | ill take a look |
| 05:45.01 | futrtrubl | cair, head over to http://www.deadmonkeycomics.com/ |
| 05:45.53 | futrtrubl | actually http://studentpages.scad.edu/~tfarre20/email_cartoon.mpg |
| 05:46.33 | Iriel | SP|Sorren : is it because your anchor has never been shown |
| 05:46.34 | Iriel | SP|Sorren |
| 05:46.39 | Iriel | SP|Sorren : And thus has no location |
| 05:46.46 | AnduinLothar | possibly |
| 05:46.48 | Iriel | SP|Sorren : And thus the anchor doesn't mean anything |
| 05:47.07 | AnduinLothar | in which case the simple answer is use OnVarsLoaded to show and then hide it |
| 05:47.13 | Cair|wow | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=279309&p=1&tmp=1#post279309 |
| 05:47.36 | SP|Sorren | oh |
| 05:47.55 | AnduinLothar | tho i dont think i've ever had that particular problem before |
| 05:48.10 | SP|Sorren | should i just show it once on entering_world and then hide it again? |
| 05:48.11 | AnduinLothar | esp if there are coords in the xml |
| 05:48.22 | AnduinLothar | u could try that. dunno if it'd work |
| 05:48.40 | Iriel | Just give it <OnShow>this:Hide()</OnShow> |
| 05:48.54 | SP|Sorren | well i have to show it to move it around if i feel like it :P |
| 05:48.55 | AnduinLothar | mmm no |
| 05:48.57 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 05:49.08 | AnduinLothar | want to be able to drag it visible later |
| 05:49.18 | SP|Sorren | thanks for the tip though, ill try it out |
| 05:49.30 | Iriel | You might need it to stay visible for a frame to get reolved |
| 05:49.32 | Iriel | Not entirely sure |
| 05:49.48 | AnduinLothar | i dunno if that's really an issue tho. maybe with IsUserPlaced frames.. |
| 05:50.09 | SP|Sorren | if i change the toc of a file |
| 05:50.12 | SP|Sorren | do i have to restart wow |
| 05:50.15 | SP|Sorren | for it to take effect? |
| 05:50.17 | Iriel | It's one of those things fixed in 1.9 (somewhat) |
| 05:50.19 | SP|Sorren | er addon, not file |
| 05:50.21 | Iriel | SP|Sorren What did you change? |
| 05:50.27 | SP|Sorren | the savedvariables |
| 05:50.32 | AnduinLothar | yes |
| 05:50.45 | SP|Sorren | curses |
| 05:50.51 | SP|Sorren | that means i'll have to wade through the queue :/ |
| 05:51.02 | AnduinLothar | yup |
| 05:51.09 | AnduinLothar | or use an alt |
| 05:51.19 | futrtrubl | wow, $50 for that simple a mod.. |
| 05:51.30 | SP|Sorren | eh? |
| 05:51.57 | futrtrubl | the link cair posted |
| 05:51.58 | AnduinLothar | i meant alternate server, but um alt account works too |
| 05:52.19 | Iriel | Well he does say "very loose" |
| 05:52.39 | AnduinLothar | I'll make it.. |
| 05:52.43 | AnduinLothar | for $50 |
| 05:52.50 | Iriel | You should mail him then 8-) |
| 05:52.54 | SP|Sorren | there's a mod for that already isn't there? |
| 05:52.56 | AnduinLothar | call it GuildSpam |
| 05:53.06 | Iriel | You might not be able to release it too if he pays for it |
| 05:53.10 | Iriel | gotta find these things out |
| 05:53.15 | futrtrubl | it's sucha simple mod I would have to think it already exists |
| 05:53.23 | SP|Sorren | im sure my guild leader uses it to wake us up for bwl and such :/ |
| 05:53.34 | Iriel | I think there is one that does that |
| 05:53.41 | Iriel | someone asked how to write one in the forum once |
| 05:53.59 | AnduinLothar | I coudl make one that adds an editbox to the bottom of the guild frame.. |
| 05:54.17 | Iriel | Do it, and ask the guy to give the money to the charity of your choice? |
| 05:54.26 | AnduinLothar | i'm greedy |
| 05:54.32 | SP|Sorren | such christmas spirit |
| 05:54.32 | SP|Sorren | nm |
| 05:54.33 | SP|Sorren | lol |
| 05:54.35 | AnduinLothar | plus im quitting my job |
| 05:55.12 | AnduinLothar | not sure why u would want to whisper them tho.. isn't that what guildchat's for? |
| 05:55.27 | SP|Sorren | whisper makes a noise though |
| 05:55.42 | AnduinLothar | maybe if you had checkboxes to set which members to send too |
| 05:55.51 | SP|Sorren | i only wish you could hear game sounds |
| 05:55.52 | AnduinLothar | and saved sets |
| 05:55.54 | SP|Sorren | when the games not in foucs :/ |
| 05:56.01 | AnduinLothar | i can.. |
| 05:56.04 | AnduinLothar | not on pc? |
| 05:56.11 | SP|Sorren | im on pc |
| 05:56.17 | SP|Sorren | but i get no game sounds when im chatting on irc |
| 05:56.25 | AnduinLothar | ah. works on macs |
| 05:56.42 | SP|Sorren | wth |
| 05:56.50 | SP|Sorren | i should make an angry post somewhere |
| 05:56.53 | SP|Sorren | im not sure where though |
| 05:57.09 | AnduinLothar | different systems |
| 05:57.10 | Iriel | I think youd' need to post to microsoft about how directsound works. |
| 05:57.15 | AnduinLothar | ya |
| 05:57.29 | AnduinLothar | apple has it's own sound systems |
| 05:57.48 | AnduinLothar | OpenAL for example |
| 05:58.56 | AnduinLothar | mm, so where should I put a checkbox next to the guild names? |
| 05:59.04 | SP|Sorren | my soundcard supports OpenAL |
| 05:59.09 | AnduinLothar | right side? |
| 05:59.21 | SP|Sorren | left imo, near the name |
| 05:59.23 | AnduinLothar | ya, but i dont think the pc wow uses openal |
| 05:59.34 | SP|Sorren | it doesnt, unfortnately |
| 05:59.46 | SP|Sorren | i should make a post asking for it, openAL is pretty nice in Q4 |
| 05:59.55 | AnduinLothar | mmm, elft side is oftly squished with the names |
| 06:00.11 | AnduinLothar | i could move them over, but i'd rather not |
| 06:00.21 | AnduinLothar | more room next to the class |
| 06:00.45 | SP|Sorren | but then your eye has to travel from the name across to the checkbox :P |
| 06:01.07 | SP|Sorren | and for people me, who often skip to the next line of text halfway through, it would be death! 8) |
| 06:01.40 | AnduinLothar | didn't say it would be ideal. just less changing of the ui.. .besides long names are already truncated but the classes ar enot |
| 06:01.59 | SP|Sorren | 8) im just joking with you lol |
| 06:02.35 | AnduinLothar | actually... there's already checkboxes over there i can use |
| 06:02.45 | AnduinLothar | ones used for the lfg check |
| 06:02.48 | AnduinLothar | in who |
| 06:03.02 | AnduinLothar | that makes it easier |
| 06:03.23 | Iriel | or you could use <modifier>-click on the names to toggle their selection |
| 06:03.28 | Iriel | and use coloring to indicate if one is selected |
| 06:03.41 | AnduinLothar | thought about that |
| 06:03.50 | AnduinLothar | but if i can use preexisting checkboxes.. |
| 06:04.01 | Iriel | yeah, it's a bit inconsistent UI wise too |
| 06:04.17 | Iriel | mind you, <modifier>-click as an alternate means of toggling the checkbox would address SP|Sorren's point |
| 06:04.36 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 06:04.40 | AnduinLothar | easy to add |
| 06:05.07 | AnduinLothar | already have that script hooking code in GuildNotesTooltip |
| 06:06.58 | AnduinLothar | actually.. the button click already exists |
| 06:07.07 | AnduinLothar | FriendsFrameFriendButton_OnClick |
| 06:07.18 | AnduinLothar | mmmm nm. friend button |
| 06:07.33 | AnduinLothar | FriendsFrameWhoButton_OnClick |
| 06:07.39 | Iriel | I read that as 'Fried Button' |
| 06:07.58 | AnduinLothar | :P |
| 06:11.19 | AnduinLothar | mmm, new guild frame stuff on test? |
| 06:11.21 | AnduinLothar | GuildMemberDetailFrame? |
| 06:11.28 | Iriel | Yup |
| 06:11.41 | AnduinLothar | anyone on RPPVP? |
| 06:11.47 | AnduinLothar | with a guild.. |
| 06:12.31 | Iriel | not i |
| 06:14.39 | AnduinLothar | ok, so where'd those checkboxes go.. they remove them? |
| 06:15.41 | AnduinLothar | grrr WhoFrameLFGFrame commented out |
| 06:16.04 | Iriel | There's a whole new set of LFG API functions |
| 06:16.10 | Iriel | So I guess it's prep for the new LFG code |
| 06:16.28 | AnduinLothar | well that means whatever i do it'll mess up in a month |
| 06:17.29 | AnduinLothar | can i use SetParent on a CheckButton? |
| 06:17.42 | Tem | I don't see why not |
| 06:17.50 | Tem | you can't however, use it on a fontstring |
| 06:18.06 | AnduinLothar | can i declare CheckButtons without a parent frame in xml? |
| 06:18.11 | Tem | fontstrings have no GetParent or SetParent stuff |
| 06:18.16 | Tem | sure |
| 06:18.22 | AnduinLothar | k, just not fontstrigns |
| 06:18.27 | Tem | nothing 'needs' a parent |
| 06:18.38 | AnduinLothar | fontstrings do |
| 06:18.39 | Tem | (excluding stuff like fontstrings that are only valid in layers) |
| 06:18.47 | Tem | gah, beat me to it |
| 06:18.58 | AnduinLothar | :P |
| 06:19.16 | Tem | but anything that goes inside <Frames> tags doesn't have to have a parent |
| 06:19.35 | Tem | it's just good practice to keep everything eventually parented by UIParent |
| 06:19.46 | Tem | that way everything goes poof when you hit alt-z |
| 06:20.09 | AnduinLothar | right right |
| 06:23.01 | AnduinLothar | hell. i'll make it work for Who and Friends too |
| 06:23.29 | AnduinLothar | that way i can spam LFM to friends and ranodm people at the same time |
| 06:24.11 | AnduinLothar | WhoWhisperer |
| 06:26.14 | AnduinLothar | cant forget the outgoing max msg cap too so it doesn't disco peeps |
| 06:29.04 | Tem | sounds annoying |
| 06:29.16 | Tem | (like to the people on your friends list) |
| 06:29.19 | AnduinLothar | oh, it prolly will be |
| 06:29.52 | AnduinLothar | which was my initial reaction to the request... jsut use guild chat.. |
| 06:29.59 | Tem | exactly |
| 06:30.04 | AnduinLothar | but since there's no friend chat.. |
| 06:30.16 | Tem | I've gotten to the point where nearly everyone in my friends list is in my guild |
| 06:30.25 | AnduinLothar | not mine |
| 06:30.35 | AnduinLothar | my friends list was maxed well before i joined any guild |
| 06:30.39 | Tem | I was used to be friends with loads of people in other guilds, but we absorbed them :) |
| 06:32.27 | SP|Sorren | for out of guild friends, i use a custom channel :P |
| 06:32.43 | AnduinLothar | u have to get them to join it first |
| 06:32.53 | SP|Sorren | thats true |
| 06:33.02 | SP|Sorren | if they're your friends though, wouldn't they join? :P |
| 06:33.11 | pagefault | kergoth, anyway to get bb not to cast my huge mana eating armor buff while in combat? |
| 06:33.24 | kergoth | there is, but i dont know how |
| 06:33.38 | kergoth | i need to get it to stop casting detect traps in combat too |
| 06:33.41 | AnduinLothar | most of the guys on ym friends list aren't real close to me.. just people i quest with on occation |
| 06:33.44 | kergoth | since it triggers the global cooldown |
| 06:33.46 | kergoth | annoying |
| 06:34.35 | pagefault | I need it to not use soul link when I have the imp out too |
| 06:34.41 | pagefault | I think I am going to have to mod the actual code for that one though |
| 06:37.55 | AnduinLothar | heh someone in game just asked me what LoadOnDemand was |
| 06:38.12 | Cair|wow | hehehe, cool |
| 06:38.13 | AnduinLothar | and what the highest lvl was... cair at 11 lol |
| 06:38.27 | Cair|wow | and did you explain? |
| 06:38.33 | AnduinLothar | ya |
| 06:38.44 | AnduinLothar | he was looking for a guild to join tho |
| 06:38.51 | Cair|wow | and the reaction was ... o.O ... right? |
| 06:38.59 | AnduinLothar | "kk" |
| 06:39.05 | Cair|wow | meh, we aren't a guild the way most are |
| 06:39.10 | AnduinLothar | basicly |
| 06:39.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron (n=Khamer@student2a-64.unh.edu) |
| 06:39.24 | Cair|wow | we won't be high end or raids or any of that stuff |
| 06:39.39 | AnduinLothar | nopers |
| 06:39.58 | kergoth | why am i so tired? |
| 06:39.59 | kergoth | its early |
| 06:40.02 | kergoth | meh |
| 06:41.58 | Tem | kergoth: ditto |
| 06:42.05 | Tem | I need to recharge on some dew |
| 06:42.52 | AnduinLothar | which reminds me i have some dew in my minifridge handily located next to my computer |
| 06:44.07 | Depherios | yay, level 40, shadowform, and mounted...... and broke |
| 06:44.15 | AnduinLothar | that works too, but i had a spare minifridge from the dorms.. |
| 06:44.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Disco (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 06:44.46 | Cair|wow | wrench wins |
| 06:44.59 | AnduinLothar | ? |
| 06:45.57 | Ktron | Is there a more optimized way to do this? it looks pretty sold for me, though does using for to declare variables make them local? |
| 06:46.02 | Ktron | Cair|wow: woot |
| 06:46.18 | Cair|wow | and on that note, night folks |
| 06:46.25 | Ktron | Cair|wow: maybe update purl? or I can? |
| 06:46.36 | Cair|sleep | ~tabard |
| 06:46.37 | purl | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2563 - vote for your tabard! |
| 06:46.46 | Cair|sleep | purl, forget tabard |
| 06:46.47 | purl | i forgot tabard, Cair|sleep |
| 06:46.51 | Cair|sleep | there we go |
| 06:47.16 | Ktron | Oh, I didn't give you a link to what I'm trying to optimize-- http://wow.pastebin.com/461907 |
| 06:49.08 | AnduinLothar | works for me. that's what i woulda voted for |
| 06:49.50 | AnduinLothar | wha the hell did u replace table.find for? |
| 06:50.15 | AnduinLothar | and itunes owns... minus the memory footprint |
| 06:50.19 | Iriel | there isn't normally a table.find |
| 06:50.31 | Iriel | it owns until it gets confused and dupes your entire library |
| 06:50.44 | AnduinLothar | PEBKAC |
| 06:51.10 | Iriel | More like PEBIAFS (Problem Exists Between iTunes And FileSystem) |
| 06:51.23 | AnduinLothar | what'd u do. try to move the library? |
| 06:51.27 | Tem | Iriel: what did itues do? |
| 06:51.30 | Iriel | Ktron : return nil is redundant |
| 06:51.44 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : Yes and no.. my library is mounted from another share |
| 06:51.45 | AnduinLothar | esp at the end of a func |
| 06:51.46 | Tem | Iriel: what did itunes* do |
| 06:51.57 | AnduinLothar | automaticly returns nil |
| 06:52.07 | AnduinLothar | plus return; returns nil by itself |
| 06:52.15 | Iriel | Tem: decided it couldn't find any of my files, and then duped them all when I re-scanned the folder |
| 06:52.17 | AnduinLothar | it's doubly redundant |
| 06:52.27 | Iriel | THOUGH, if I double clicked on any of the files it 'couldn't find', they played |
| 06:52.40 | Tem | ouch |
| 06:52.52 | AnduinLothar | ya ir. i've had that issue. only happens with shared folders tho |
| 06:53.03 | Iriel | Ktron : You should use for i,v in pairs(table) too, though I suggest 'table' is a poor choice of local variable for a function going into the 'table' namespace, just because it's confusing |
| 06:53.12 | Ktron | So the entire 'return nil;' is redundant-- that makes sense |
| 06:53.43 | Iriel | Ktron : Though i'm going to suggest a different usage |
| 06:53.58 | AnduinLothar | w/e i'll continue using that for syntax till it breaks |
| 06:53.59 | Tem | So I'm going to give this one last go before I pick a random word... I'm going to be writing an addon panel similar to the one at the login screen, and (like usual) I need a name for it |
| 06:54.25 | Fanook | Iriel: you had "keep folders organized" turned on, didnt you |
| 06:54.35 | AnduinLothar | oh btw. Sea lready has a Sea.table.hasValue to do what ur doing |
| 06:55.24 | Iriel | http://wow.pastebin.com/461919 |
| 06:55.26 | AnduinLothar | in cas eu want to use or jut copy/paste |
| 06:55.38 | Iriel | Fanook : No, itunes doesn't own my mp3's, it just has references |
| 06:55.53 | Iriel | Fanook : The files themselves are fine, it was just the library that went mad |
| 06:55.59 | Fanook | ah |
| 06:56.14 | AnduinLothar | keep folders organized is far supperior organization tho.. |
| 06:56.24 | AnduinLothar | you can just disable copy to library tho |
| 06:56.26 | Ktron | brb, and I'll look Iriel |
| 06:57.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge duke|ib (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 07:00.12 | Iriel | I have more than just itunes using the folders, so I dont want them getting moved around, I name them sanely anyway |
| 07:00.32 | AnduinLothar | understood. just easier for me to not have to name them at all |
| 07:00.39 | Tem | I am far too lazy to name folders myself |
| 07:00.47 | Tem | I have come to love iTunes for that |
| 07:00.57 | Tem | now, I don't use it to listen to music |
| 07:01.10 | Iriel | Ktron : Look ath this one: http://wow.pastebin.com/461921 instead |
| 07:01.16 | Tem | but I keep it around for sticking stuff on my ipod and for keeping my directories neat |
| 07:01.23 | Iriel | Well, it's MOSTLY just an ipod conduit |
| 07:01.29 | Iriel | though I like it for ID3 management |
| 07:04.43 | Tem | I use Abander Tag Control |
| 07:04.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Eraphine|Lab (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu) |
| 07:05.22 | Tem | oh for anyone who was trying to think of a name for me, I've decided on "Overlord" |
| 07:06.08 | Tem | (most of you probably didn't even see my request, but meh, I'm proud of one of my names for once_ |
| 07:06.12 | Tem | ) |
| 07:09.01 | Iriel | What request was that anyway? |
| 07:09.36 | AnduinLothar | no idea what ur addon does.. cant pick a name for it.. |
| 07:09.46 | Iriel | Or maybe I should ask, WHERE was the request |
| 07:09.55 | Tem | about 5 minutes ago |
| 07:10.00 | Tem | this channel |
| 07:10.24 | Tem | ok, more like 15 minutes |
| 07:10.28 | Tem | "(00:53:43) Tem: So I'm going to give this one last go before I pick a random word... I'm going to be writing an addon panel similar to the one at the login screen, and (like usual) I need a name for it" |
| 07:10.32 | Iriel | oh, I see it now. |
| 07:10.53 | AnduinLothar | oh i see |
| 07:11.02 | Tem | I figured no one had seen it |
| 07:11.03 | AnduinLothar | AddonManager is already taken |
| 07:11.12 | AnduinLothar | and works well imo |
| 07:11.13 | Tem | I wasn't aware any such mod existed |
| 07:11.27 | Tem | which is what motivated me to want to write this one |
| 07:11.43 | AnduinLothar | not sure if it's on any mod site. |
| 07:11.54 | Tem | that's probably why I've never heard of it |
| 07:12.16 | AnduinLothar | Legorol made it |
| 07:12.34 | Tem | where can I find it? |
| 07:12.47 | Tem | anyway, I still want to make Overlord |
| 07:12.56 | AnduinLothar | lets you control addons per config and load ondemand addons automaticly |
| 07:13.21 | AnduinLothar | so i jsut set a diff config as default and reload for a whole new ui |
| 07:13.34 | Tem | well, at first it's just going to be a "clone" of the addon panel from the login screen |
| 07:13.44 | AnduinLothar | i use it frequently for my highfps set for raids |
| 07:13.45 | Tem | I'll add nifty features down the road |
| 07:13.54 | futrtrubl | 1.9 will make addon managers more interesting |
| 07:14.13 | AnduinLothar | meh, i can do the same things now, it's jsut not builtin |
| 07:14.23 | Tem | yeah |
| 07:14.31 | Tem | I'm not particularly excited about it |
| 07:14.41 | Tem | per char bindings either |
| 07:14.54 | Tem | I've had per char bindings for a _long_ time |
| 07:14.58 | Iriel | You can't get to the per-char addon stuff from INSIDE the game |
| 07:15.01 | Iriel | only GlueXML |
| 07:15.15 | AnduinLothar | ya. more limitting |
| 07:15.21 | Tem | and with much more control than their new setting |
| 07:15.34 | futrtrubl | really? I like the ability to not have to have dissabling/enabling code in your mod or having to use an addon manager or stub to load an addon for only certain chars |
| 07:15.39 | AnduinLothar | ya, Khaos Configs let me have multiple UI sets per char |
| 07:16.22 | futrtrubl | to load a loadondemand addon* |
| 07:16.32 | Tem | Iriel: so, I won't be able to set which mods are enabled for certain characters in 1.9 from in-game? |
| 07:16.39 | AnduinLothar | no, works with nonondemand too |
| 07:17.00 | futrtrubl | with a reload AnduinLothar |
| 07:17.04 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 07:17.23 | Iriel | Tem: Correct, I dont know whether it selects for all or for the char who executes it |
| 07:17.30 | AnduinLothar | AddOnManager looks only to be availbiel on the private cosmos svn. i could send u a copy tho |
| 07:17.32 | Iriel | Tem: So it might be you can ONLY set a certain character |
| 07:17.37 | Tem | that's strange |
| 07:17.42 | Tem | I wonder why they would do that |
| 07:17.51 | futrtrubl | if an addon is enabled for one char and you log on to another you have to do a relaod once you log in |
| 07:18.06 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 07:18.17 | AnduinLothar | which is the only thing that might be nice to change. |
| 07:18.40 | AnduinLothar | and is changing |
| 07:19.02 | AnduinLothar | anyway. AddOnManager required Khaos atm. still want a package with deps tem? |
| 07:19.33 | Tem | I didn't actually want to install AddOnManager |
| 07:19.37 | Tem | I wanted to poke at it |
| 07:19.38 | AnduinLothar | k |
| 07:19.50 | Tem | to see if I could learn something from it before I did anything silly in my code |
| 07:20.11 | Tem | heh if you wanna talk about deps, mine will require Ace and AceGUI |
| 07:20.22 | AnduinLothar | to each his own |
| 07:21.34 | AnduinLothar | he was gonna make it standalone but never got around to it |
| 07:21.36 | Tem | Iriel: any insight on why (with the addon settings) |
| 07:22.19 | Iriel | Tem: No, I noticed that the functions had 2 different usages, and asked slouken about them, and the character name version is only available in glue |
| 07:22.38 | Iriel | I'm SUSPECTING that EnableAddOn/DisableAddOn in-game will be for the current character, but i'm not sure |
| 07:22.49 | Iriel | It may depend on whether that character has per-character settings |
| 07:22.58 | Tem | bah |
| 07:23.05 | Iriel | I haven't really figured out the intricacies of the per-char stuff yet |
| 07:23.18 | Tem | I don't suppose you need to either |
| 07:23.26 | Tem | since we can't play with it |
| 07:23.50 | AnduinLothar | tem. u didn't accept and it aborted |
| 07:23.58 | Iriel | Well, we can play with it, we can't CODE with it 8-) |
| 07:24.03 | AnduinLothar | unless it's blocked on this end |
| 07:24.11 | Tem | I accepted, but for some reason it's failing |
| 07:24.13 | pagefault | do you guys have someone on your server who is a real dick in the BG, and commands everyone to do his bidding? |
| 07:24.18 | AnduinLothar | my end then |
| 07:24.20 | AnduinLothar | 2sec |
| 07:24.21 | Tem | I've received files this way before so it's not me |
| 07:26.16 | Tem | Iriel: (I think I might have already asked this, but here goes anyway) Do you have any thoughts on /why/ the addon api would have a different usage only available in the glue? |
| 07:27.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge KarlKFI (n=KarlKFI@adsl-67-125-157-11.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 07:27.37 | Tem | a clone? |
| 07:27.54 | KarlKFI | doesn't recognize me as disconected yet |
| 07:28.11 | KarlKFI | even tho i quit with the same app |
| 07:28.14 | Tem | ah yes, I had no idea that you had |
| 07:28.24 | Tem | ghost yourself |
| 07:28.30 | Depherios | Yeah, I get that problem all the time... |
| 07:28.59 | Depherios | where does trillian put the CTCP replies... curse it |
| 07:32.15 | KarlKFI | yay, checkboxes.. that was easy |
| 07:33.27 | KarlKFI | wow... i didn't know you could see ur breath in wow when ur in a cold place.. |
| 07:33.51 | KarlKFI | learn something new everyday |
| 07:33.58 | KarlKFI | never played a gnome b4 i spose |
| 07:37.30 | End | if you have a cat, its breath will mist too |
| 07:37.42 | End | I noticed that before I noticed my own |
| 07:37.44 | KarlKFI | nifty |
| 07:38.49 | KarlKFI | can u get the name of a guildmember by index without iterating the guild list? |
| 07:38.58 | pagefault | kergoth, did you ever find a nice addon that has a minimap of the BG |
| 07:40.09 | KarlKFI | yay GetGuildRosterInfo(index) - This function is used to get info on members in the guild. |
| 07:40.58 | KarlKFI | i assume the guild indexes change when a new member joins |
| 07:41.05 | Tem | yes |
| 07:41.10 | Iriel | The indexes change whenever you see GUILD_ROSTER_UPDATE |
| 07:41.12 | KarlKFI | k, then ill ahve to save by name |
| 07:41.20 | Tem | and Iriel beats me to it |
| 07:41.31 | Iriel | If someone joins and you dont issue a GuildRoster() then you wont see a change I dont think |
| 07:41.37 | Iriel | WARNING: The return values of that function change in 1.9 |
| 07:41.54 | Tem | oh right, I'm actually going to have to update WhoNote |
| 07:42.08 | Tem | thanks for the warning |
| 07:42.13 | KarlKFI | GetGuildRosterInfo changes? |
| 07:42.18 | Tem | Curses! I'm not in a guild on test server |
| 07:42.20 | Iriel | UPDATED - name, rank, rankIndex, level, class, zone, note, officernote, online, status = GetGuildRosterInfo(index) - Removed old 'group' flag (Used ot be between zone, and note), and added new status (AFK etc) result. !!! |
| 07:42.32 | KarlKFI | k, middle wont matter to me |
| 07:42.49 | KarlKFI | afk might.. |
| 07:43.45 | KarlKFI | there we go |
| 07:44.00 | Tem | no big deal 2 characters change on one line |
| 07:44.36 | Tem | 1.9 isn't tommorow is it? |
| 07:44.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge AnduinLothar (n=KarlKFI@adsl-67-125-157-11.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 07:44.47 | Tem | we've established that already right? |
| 07:44.50 | Iriel | I believe we've established 'almost certainly no' |
| 07:44.58 | Tem | good |
| 07:45.08 | Tem | I'm so not ready yet |
| 07:46.03 | AnduinLothar | much better |
| 07:46.17 | futrtrubl | time to grab MobileFrames |
| 07:47.03 | AnduinLothar | :) party |
| 07:47.33 | AnduinLothar | Taking Back Sunday ftw |
| 07:47.50 | futrtrubl | what's the mobile frames issue with Titan AnduinLothar? |
| 07:48.09 | AnduinLothar | mmm, not sure if it exists with the latest titan |
| 07:48.27 | AnduinLothar | titan tries to move a bunch of things without askign IsUserPlaced() first |
| 07:48.51 | futrtrubl | ahh, k |
| 07:48.56 | AnduinLothar | and hooks the right and bottom frame adjustments |
| 07:49.36 | AnduinLothar | i made a hacked vers that doesn't do any frame management but i think there's a new titan option to leave ur frames alone |
| 07:49.57 | AnduinLothar | which you will want to enable and then drag things around with MF |
| 07:50.06 | futrtrubl | cool |
| 07:51.49 | AnduinLothar | GuildStatus_Update is huge.. |
| 07:53.36 | futrtrubl | anyone use EngInventory and get funkiness when pressing esc? I have a simple fix |
| 07:55.20 | AnduinLothar | i've thought about using it, but haven't looked into it yet |
| 07:55.30 | pagefault | cedega actually fixed WoW 1.9 in advance this time |
| 07:55.34 | pagefault | they are getting slightly better |
| 07:55.53 | AnduinLothar | surprisingly i think all my addons work fine 1.9 |
| 07:56.01 | pagefault | mine too |
| 07:56.12 | AnduinLothar | which is saying something when i have like 25.. |
| 07:56.30 | Iriel | mostof mine do also |
| 07:56.35 | AnduinLothar | i have this aching feeling im forgetting something tho |
| 07:56.36 | Iriel | though I had a couple of subtle failures |
| 07:56.57 | AnduinLothar | i knwo BarOptions and census broke in Cosmos.. |
| 07:57.16 | AnduinLothar | think leg fixed those |
| 07:57.21 | Ktron | back |
| 07:57.29 | Ktron | Iriel: is back much faster? |
| 07:57.42 | Ktron | than a for i,v? |
| 07:57.48 | Ktron | *next much faster |
| 07:58.32 | AnduinLothar | what's the command to check if a checkbutton IsChecked?? |
| 07:58.50 | Tem | GetChecked |
| 07:58.57 | Tem | CheckButton:GetChecked() |
| 07:59.00 | AnduinLothar | thx |
| 07:59.04 | Tem | np |
| 07:59.16 | AnduinLothar | shoulda just wikied O.o |
| 08:01.14 | Depherios | Here's one I can't find in a wiki XD .. what's a good smart auto dismount addon? got to 40, got my mount... shadowform... skills... have exactly 0 copper -- but yeah... What's a good auto-dismount when I do stuff addon XD |
| 08:01.58 | AnduinLothar | StupidDismount |
| 08:02.00 | AnduinLothar | er |
| 08:02.03 | AnduinLothar | StupidMount |
| 08:02.21 | AnduinLothar | was gonna add it to cosmos actually |
| 08:02.23 | Depherios | thanks |
| 08:02.32 | AnduinLothar | u aren't gonna find it tho |
| 08:02.36 | AnduinLothar | I can send u a copy |
| 08:02.40 | Depherios | woo XD |
| 08:03.07 | Depherios | although that probably won't work, as trillian sucks |
| 08:03.17 | Tem | what does Model:ReplaceIconTexture("texture") do? |
| 08:03.57 | AnduinLothar | there u go |
| 08:03.58 | Depherios | woo |
| 08:04.00 | Depherios | thanks |
| 08:04.24 | AnduinLothar | it works standalone but IsMounted makes it slightly more efficient |
| 08:04.33 | AnduinLothar | and u can use /dismount |
| 08:04.39 | Depherios | win |
| 08:04.48 | AnduinLothar | and other various macro functions with IsMoutned |
| 08:05.01 | Depherios | oh dude, it'll auto MOUNT me when I'm done gathering? |
| 08:05.04 | Depherios | you just made my day! |
| 08:05.06 | AnduinLothar | no |
| 08:05.09 | AnduinLothar | it wont |
| 08:05.12 | Depherios | CURSES |
| 08:05.16 | Depherios | your TOC made it sound like it |
| 08:05.25 | AnduinLothar | that's sarf's |
| 08:05.26 | Depherios | I was trying to figure out how you'd do it, was going to go look at code XD |
| 08:05.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (i=MoonWolf@ip51ccaa81.speed.planet.nl) |
| 08:05.49 | Ktron | Iriel: you awake? |
| 08:05.49 | Depherios | "Will automatically mount/dismount when gathering stuff." <-- aww |
| 08:06.07 | AnduinLothar | no it's very simple code. automounting would prolly require AQ or somehting |
| 08:06.13 | Depherios | yah |
| 08:06.20 | Tem | well I'm getting nowhere |
| 08:06.21 | Tem | sleep time |
| 08:06.26 | AnduinLothar | i'll have to change his toc then. he prolly wrote it before writing the addon |
| 08:06.29 | Depherios | G'night |
| 08:06.35 | tem|sleep | later |
| 08:06.47 | Ktron | night Te |
| 08:07.07 | AnduinLothar | ya toc is old. it works fine with pally/warlock |
| 08:07.12 | Ktron | anyone willing to help me learn something about optimization and testing? here's my file at the moment... http://wow.pastebin.com/461974 |
| 08:07.15 | Iriel | Ktron : next is what the normal for loop uses, but my version of your function allows you to call it several times to find ALL ocurrences of a value |
| 08:07.36 | AnduinLothar | i think StupidMount 1 used to automount before it reqed a keypress |
| 08:08.33 | Ktron | Iriel: hm, let me check to see if that's beneficial |
| 08:09.12 | Iriel | It's functionally beneficial, I think, especially if you're going to add a function to the table scope 8-) |
| 08:09.46 | Iriel | you might find while (key or (key == false)) is faster than while (key ~= nil), but i'm not sure |
| 08:10.30 | Ktron | hm |
| 08:10.52 | Ktron | Actually, heh, I've discovered, to my surprise, that the addon I'm tweaking doesn't use that function at all even though it has defined it |
| 08:11.49 | Ktron | I see your point though Iriel, functionally, that's definitely an improvement |
| 08:11.54 | Ktron | and that makes sense |
| 08:11.56 | Iriel | Actually, I think I have a much more compact version, that should be faster |
| 08:12.22 | AnduinLothar | of what? |
| 08:13.05 | Iriel | http://wow.pastebin.com/461981 |
| 08:13.12 | Iriel | How's THAT! 8-) |
| 08:13.53 | Ktron | ~genius |
| 08:13.55 | purl | An arbitrary precision integer and multiple precision floatingpoint calculator. URL: http://www.5z.com/jirka/genius.html |
| 08:14.02 | Ktron | pfff |
| 08:14.05 | Ktron | genius |
| 08:14.06 | AnduinLothar | i smell a new Sea.tableGetValue |
| 08:14.07 | Ktron | ;) |
| 08:14.47 | AnduinLothar | mybad: getValueIndex |
| 08:15.17 | Ktron | Actually Iriel |
| 08:16.11 | Iriel | hm? |
| 08:16.51 | Iriel | Anyone know offhand if GetCVar is case sensitive? |
| 08:17.16 | Iriel | never mind, it's not 8-) |
| 08:17.48 | AnduinLothar | can startAfter be an object or must it be an int? |
| 08:18.01 | Iriel | it's the key from a previous call |
| 08:18.19 | AnduinLothar | so any object |
| 08:18.22 | Iriel | yes |
| 08:18.33 | AnduinLothar | k, i'll update Sea |
| 08:18.46 | pagefault | hehe |
| 08:19.16 | AnduinLothar | works if it's nil i hope |
| 08:19.25 | Iriel | nil starts at the start |
| 08:19.28 | AnduinLothar | kk |
| 08:20.53 | Ktron | So, I want to improve my understand of LUA, so I'm thinking that writing my own versions of some functions might be useful. table.find makes sense, I know php's explode does, any other good examples people can think of? |
| 08:21.25 | AnduinLothar | Sea already has a ton of them u could duplicae |
| 08:21.36 | Iriel | table deep copy? |
| 08:21.40 | AnduinLothar | Sea.table |
| 08:21.41 | futrtrubl | explode? is that like unpack()? |
| 08:21.49 | Iriel | extra credit if it copies self-referential structures properly |
| 08:21.51 | AnduinLothar | split |
| 08:22.03 | AnduinLothar | explode = split |
| 08:22.28 | Ktron | table deep copy I'm assuming duplicates one table into another... Sea.table does...? |
| 08:22.45 | Ktron | AnduinLothar: I'm trying to avoid looking at the Sea code though heh |
| 08:22.54 | AnduinLothar | Sea.table is a file of functions related to tables |
| 08:22.58 | futrtrubl | is WoWI having problems for anyone else? |
| 08:23.16 | Iriel | Ktron : deep copy makes a table structure that is a copy of another one |
| 08:23.21 | Iriel | including properly copying sub-tables |
| 08:23.44 | Ktron | so no references, a full copy |
| 08:23.52 | futrtrubl | function BEB.TableCopy(a) |
| 08:23.52 | futrtrubl | local b={} |
| 08:23.52 | futrtrubl | for k,v in a do |
| 08:23.52 | futrtrubl | if type(v) == "table" then |
| 08:23.52 | futrtrubl | b[k] = BEB.TableCopy(v) |
| 08:24.04 | futrtrubl | else |
| 08:24.04 | futrtrubl | b[k]=v |
| 08:24.04 | futrtrubl | end |
| 08:24.04 | futrtrubl | end |
| 08:24.04 | futrtrubl | return b |
| 08:24.07 | futrtrubl | end |
| 08:24.08 | Ktron | ah, the code! it burns my eyes! |
| 08:24.17 | futrtrubl | Iriel made that |
| 08:24.35 | AnduinLothar | Sea.table includes: getValueIndex, isInTable, isStringInTableValue/isWordInList, push, pop, getKeyList, copy, isEquivalent |
| 08:24.42 | Iriel | That fails my extra credit unfortunately 8-) |
| 08:24.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka|work (n=kristofe@66.217.181.62.in-addr.dgcsystems.net) |
| 08:24.57 | AnduinLothar | Sea.table.copy i believe has deep copy |
| 08:25.23 | futrtrubl | but, it is Sea and therefore evil |
| 08:25.25 | futrtrubl | ;'] |
| 08:25.39 | AnduinLothar | your prejudice only hurts you |
| 08:26.16 | Iriel | http://wow.pastebin.com/461987 |
| 08:26.31 | Iriel | If you can make a deep copy that copies Y properly, you'll learn something. |
| 08:27.21 | AnduinLothar | odd... scrolling the guild list isn't calling GuildStatus_Update |
| 08:27.30 | AnduinLothar | <OnVerticalScroll> |
| 08:27.30 | AnduinLothar | FauxScrollFrame_OnVerticalScroll(FRIENDS_FRAME_GUILD_HEIGHT, GuildStatus_Update); |
| 08:27.30 | AnduinLothar | </OnVerticalScroll> |
| 08:27.37 | Ktron | Alright, well I'm working on the first few and I'll get and think that one through Iriel |
| 08:28.23 | futrtrubl | well, g'night all |
| 08:28.26 | krka|work | recursion... evil! |
| 08:29.20 | krka|work | i would love to see how that is solved |
| 08:29.34 | krka|work | hm.. tonumber(table) would give a unique identifier, right? |
| 08:29.49 | Iriel | krka|work : Why do that? Tables are valid table keys |
| 08:30.09 | AnduinLothar | if you can find a more efficient way to do it than what sea has let me know and i'll upgrade |
| 08:30.51 | krka|work | hm, i was thinking about using an extra table to check for already visited tables, but yeah, you won't need tonumber for that |
| 08:31.15 | Iriel | that's the right solution tho |
| 08:31.21 | AnduinLothar | so anyone got any idea what function is actually called when u scroll the GuildFrame? |
| 08:32.51 | krka|work | there is a Right One(tm)? |
| 08:34.12 | Iriel | well, there's a "best I've come up with so far" one. |
| 08:36.38 | Iriel | Here's my best attempt: http://wow.pastebin.com/461996 |
| 08:36.49 | krka|work | not going to look until i finish my own :) |
| 08:37.22 | Iriel | A good test case (simple too) |
| 08:38.01 | Iriel | X = {}; X.X = X; Y=deepCopy(X); testOk = (Y == Y.X) |
| 08:38.25 | AnduinLothar | does urs handle recursive tables? |
| 08:38.34 | Iriel | Yes |
| 08:38.38 | Ktron | heh, I keep doing dumb things, and I need to get used to understand LUA errors |
| 08:39.02 | Iriel | And it doesn't allocate any working tables unless it needs to |
| 08:39.12 | Iriel | so it doesn't generate garbage for a simple table |
| 08:39.22 | AnduinLothar | so it doesn't infinitely loop when you try to copy one uv copied out of? |
| 08:39.33 | Iriel | Nope. |
| 08:40.25 | AnduinLothar | u sure? that just looks liek single level recursion |
| 08:40.37 | Iriel | Try it 8-) |
| 08:40.49 | krka|work | dpesm |
| 08:40.54 | krka|work | doesn't use working tables??? |
| 08:41.04 | krka|work | ah... i should have read all of it |
| 08:41.12 | Iriel | it doesn't unless it needs to |
| 08:43.01 | Iriel | Actually I can simplify that, because a condition I coded for is impossible |
| 08:44.02 | Iriel | http://wow.pastebin.com/462001 |
| 08:47.08 | Ktron | right now, I am writing the world's worst LUA code |
| 08:47.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge LawjoskarAway (n=larry@cpe-065-190-205-196.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 08:48.30 | Ktron | http://wow.pastebin.com/462007 its not giving me errors, we'll see if people can guess what I want it to do... I think it is infinite looping though, and I'm not sure why |
| 08:49.01 | AnduinLothar | mmm, i got mismatching keylists when deepcopying ChatFrame1 |
| 08:49.10 | Iriel | I think you need i = f+1 |
| 08:49.18 | Iriel | But I could be wrong. |
| 08:49.34 | Ktron | well, trying to go from say 1 3, to 3 5, to 5 7, etc |
| 08:49.44 | krka|work | here's mine, don't have access to any lua interpreter so I haven't tested it: http://wow.pastebin.com/462008 |
| 08:49.49 | krka|work | now, to look at yours... |
| 08:49.52 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : You're not guaranteed to get the same order in the copy, I dont think |
| 08:50.03 | Ktron | It might repeat characters, but I can't see what it is doing, not sure why there's a loop |
| 08:50.33 | AnduinLothar | um, ur deepCopy only uses integets as keys |
| 08:50.38 | AnduinLothar | integers |
| 08:50.41 | Iriel | whose? |
| 08:50.44 | AnduinLothar | urs |
| 08:50.47 | krka|work | hmm, shouldn't we copy table values? |
| 08:50.51 | krka|work | err |
| 08:50.53 | krka|work | keys! |
| 08:51.23 | Iriel | that t[0] stuff is bizarre krka |
| 08:51.35 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : What mine does NOT copy is metatables |
| 08:51.50 | kergoth | Iriel: might want to throw in a table.setn(ret, table.getn(data)) before 'return ret;', since you arent iterating in order of the integer keys, just to be a bit more thorough |
| 08:51.53 | krka|work | Iriel, that's just copied from Sea |
| 08:51.56 | AnduinLothar | doesn't matter. i'm getting integers as keys |
| 08:52.32 | Iriel | AnduinLothar : With my code? |
| 08:52.35 | AnduinLothar | yes |
| 08:52.47 | kergoth | AnduinLothar: what exactly are you expecting? [0] always points to the userdata, and most other keys are resolved via __Index, not stored in the frame table |
| 08:52.49 | AnduinLothar | wait |
| 08:52.55 | AnduinLothar | <-- on drugs |
| 08:53.02 | Iriel | I'd been wondering 8-) |
| 08:53.05 | AnduinLothar | :) |
| 08:53.11 | kergoth | hehe |
| 08:53.16 | Iriel | kergoth : The problem is working out if the table had setn called beforehand |
| 08:53.32 | kergoth | you dont need to. |
| 08:53.58 | kergoth | as far as i know, anyway |
| 08:54.03 | Iriel | sure you do |
| 08:54.10 | kergoth | why? |
| 08:54.13 | Iriel | X = {1,2,3} |
| 08:54.19 | Iriel | table.getn(X) == 3 |
| 08:54.25 | Iriel | X[4] = 4 |
| 08:54.28 | Iriel | table.getn(X) == 4 |
| 08:54.30 | Iriel | X = {1,2,3} |
| 08:54.37 | krka|work | so, someone answer: are we supposed to not deepcopy the keys? |
| 08:54.38 | Iriel | table.setn(X, table.getn(X)) |
| 08:54.40 | Iriel | X[4] = 4 |
| 08:54.43 | Iriel | table.getn(X) == 3 |
| 08:54.53 | Iriel | krka : Correct, dont deep copy keys |
| 08:54.56 | krka|work | why? |
| 08:55.04 | krka|work | (i bet you didn't see that one coming!) |
| 08:55.20 | Iriel | krka : Well, for most general uses, the keys are outside the table |
| 08:55.33 | Iriel | krka : If you want to be thorough, you'd provide a key-copying variant |
| 08:55.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kolth (n=amoeba@206.174.74.130) |
| 08:55.38 | AnduinLothar | ya, if u deep copy them you cant refrence them |
| 08:55.52 | AnduinLothar | if they aren't strings or ints |
| 08:56.03 | krka|work | ah, so keys are compared by address instead of by content? |
| 08:56.11 | Iriel | Yes |
| 08:56.28 | Iriel | all objects are copied and compared by reference (Unless they have metamethods for comparison, but we assume these dont) |
| 08:56.34 | krka|work | this has weird effects though |
| 08:56.43 | krka|work | you do a deepcopy and alter a key, and then the original table is modified! |
| 08:56.58 | Iriel | not really |
| 08:57.04 | Iriel | the key is modified, but the table is not |
| 08:57.16 | krka|work | but the key is a part of the table |
| 08:57.23 | Iriel | the reference is |
| 08:57.28 | Iriel | the key itself isn't, normally. |
| 08:57.41 | Iriel | Though it is of course entirely possible someone designs a table structure so that it IS |
| 08:57.45 | Iriel | that's not normal |
| 08:57.47 | krka|work | if that's your definition, than deepcopy is simply a = b |
| 08:58.00 | Iriel | well, no.. |
| 08:58.09 | krka|work | since you'd always be modifying references, not the actual table |
| 08:58.11 | Iriel | I expect the following..... |
| 08:58.20 | Iriel | if I have B == deepCopy(A) |
| 08:58.21 | Iriel | then.. |
| 08:58.38 | Iriel | for any key structure X1, X2, X3... |
| 08:58.41 | kergoth | there really isnt a deepcopy that works for all cases. the best you can do is cover the common case |
| 08:58.56 | kergoth | which is why there's no deepcopy method in lua's table library |
| 08:59.13 | Iriel | A[X1][X2][X3] == B[X1][X2][X3] unless the final result is a table |
| 08:59.15 | krka|work | so what can go wrong with deepcopying keys too? |
| 08:59.28 | Iriel | but also |
| 08:59.37 | krka|work | if you have keys that are tables, are you really going to search on them??? |
| 08:59.44 | Iriel | if I do A[X1] =1 and B[X1] = 2 then A[X1] == 1 still |
| 08:59.58 | Iriel | That's generally WHY we use tables as keys |
| 09:00.02 | Iriel | Look at the deep copy cache! |
| 09:01.09 | Iriel | In general, to kergoth's point -- you can really only get away with deep copying structures that either expect to be deep copied, or are simple enough they wont notice. |
| 09:01.38 | ForgottenLords | Are table values Passed as pointers? |
| 09:01.59 | krka|work | basically, yes |
| 09:02.01 | kergoth | thankfully in lua, there's really only one mutable type |
| 09:02.03 | Iriel | Essentially, yes |
| 09:02.11 | ForgottenLords | kk |
| 09:02.35 | krka|work | would be cool if tables were immutable |
| 09:03.36 | AnduinLothar | lol |
| 09:03.39 | Iriel | Yeah, you can mostly simulate an immutable table, minus the pairs problem |
| 09:03.54 | kergoth | sounds like you want something more like an immutable tuple than a table, which unfortunately lua doesnt have |
| 09:04.11 | pagefault | w00t |
| 09:04.12 | kergoth | hmm, it got late |
| 09:04.13 | Iriel | I've just taken to hiding 'immutable' tables in local scope and then using __index on another object to access them. |
| 09:04.16 | pagefault | 120k honor this wek |
| 09:04.18 | pagefault | week |
| 09:05.37 | pagefault | I don't think I could play without bgbuddy |
| 09:06.18 | AnduinLothar | bleh, having to hook FauxScrollFrame_OnVerticalScroll is sick.. |
| 09:06.28 | krka|work | you can simulate an immutable table by having a function that can only read from it |
| 09:06.30 | Depherios | eww |
| 09:06.37 | Iriel | Why the hell would you hook that? |
| 09:07.00 | krka|work | it's there just waiting to be hooked! |
| 09:07.06 | AnduinLothar | to cause something to happen wehn you scroll a predefined scroller |
| 09:07.07 | krka|work | I think anduin is hooked himself |
| 09:07.29 | Iriel | Why not hook the OnValueChanged handler on the scrollbar instead> |
| 09:07.50 | AnduinLothar | mm, could do that too |
| 09:08.03 | Iriel | isnt your Update function called, anyway? |
| 09:08.07 | AnduinLothar | but hooking th eupdate func doesn't work |
| 09:08.17 | Ktron | I'm getting an error with http://wow.pastebin.com/462020 saying that argument #3 to sub is a string, not a number, and I'm not sure how its possible at all |
| 09:08.37 | AnduinLothar | because it calls the orig func which it validates when it loads the code |
| 09:08.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge digix_ (n=digix@66-90-145-10.dyn.grandenetworks.net) |
| 09:08.52 | Iriel | you aclled str2tab with "," as the 2nd arg |
| 09:08.53 | krka|work | which sub? |
| 09:09.02 | Iriel | and so n = "," |
| 09:09.10 | Iriel | and so f = "," |
| 09:09.45 | AnduinLothar | in the code: FauxScrollFrame_OnVerticalScroll(FRIENDS_FRAME_GUILD_HEIGHT, GuildStatus_Update); so it uses the GuildStatus_Update that it knows then, not any hooked copy i define later |
| 09:10.01 | Ktron | wait, just the number 1 is bound to something? |
| 09:10.03 | Iriel | So replace the handler |
| 09:10.10 | AnduinLothar | doesn't work ir |
| 09:10.13 | Iriel | Actually, no |
| 09:10.30 | Iriel | Since GuildStatus_Update isn't local, it'll be resolved every time that's run |
| 09:10.41 | AnduinLothar | nope |
| 09:10.43 | Iriel | I think you're doing something else wrong |
| 09:10.48 | AnduinLothar | doubt it |
| 09:11.00 | AnduinLothar | callign GuildStatus_Update manually works when it's hooked |
| 09:11.13 | AnduinLothar | but scrolling does not call the hooked func |
| 09:11.13 | Iriel | Maybe that's not the handler you'er looking at then? |
| 09:11.17 | Depherios | ... Why do you need to hook that? XD |
| 09:11.35 | Iriel | GuildPlayerStatus_Update |
| 09:11.39 | Iriel | GuildStatus_Update |
| 09:11.46 | Iriel | Are you sure you have the right one of those two? |
| 09:12.06 | AnduinLothar | GuildPlayerStatus_Update does not occur in FriendsFrame.xml |
| 09:12.15 | Iriel | In 1.8? |
| 09:12.16 | Iriel | Sure it does |
| 09:12.19 | Ktron | I must have completely missing something in LUA, because I don't understand how str2tab(str,1,tab) uses a non number as its second argument |
| 09:12.41 | Iriel | trace your call through ktron, I just explained that |
| 09:12.44 | AnduinLothar | im lookign at 1.9 code, but when i diffed the files i didn't see it changed |
| 09:13.20 | Iriel | You're right, it's not there in 1.9 |
| 09:13.49 | Ktron | Iriel: sorry, I totally typed the wrong function at the end |
| 09:13.49 | Iriel | So you're developing on test? |
| 09:14.04 | AnduinLothar | no, but i want it to work on test |
| 09:14.21 | AnduinLothar | i dont see it in 1.8 code either.. |
| 09:14.43 | Iriel | 1.8.1/FrameXML/FriendsFrame.lua:331:function GuildPlayerStatus_Update() |
| 09:14.49 | Iriel | 1.8.1/FrameXML/FriendsFrame.xml:2086: FauxScrollFrame_OnVerticalScroll(FRIENDS_FRAME_GUILD_HEIGHT, GuildPlayerStatus_Update); |
| 09:15.12 | Iriel | I have no idea which of the 2 functions is the one you want tho |
| 09:15.45 | AnduinLothar | oh oops, i'm comparing with the last test server patch |
| 09:16.01 | Ktron | wow, it's too late for me to be programming |
| 09:16.29 | AnduinLothar | ok so the GuildPlayer_Update hook should work in 1.9 but not 1.8 |
| 09:16.42 | Iriel | Maybe |
| 09:16.43 | ForgottenLords | Nighttime is the best time to program |
| 09:16.50 | Iriel | I really dont konw WHICH of those functions is used |
| 09:17.07 | AnduinLothar | GuildPlayer_Update is whats used on test im positive |
| 09:17.45 | AnduinLothar | still have to find my 1.8 code.. |
| 09:17.53 | Iriel | But I *DO* know that every time that <OnVerticalScroll> is run, it DOES resolve that global (and thus your hook) |
| 09:18.04 | Iriel | There's absolutely no binding of that symbol |
| 09:19.04 | AnduinLothar | right. i was just going off observed 1.8 behavior but if it uses diff code than what i am lookign at that would explain it |
| 09:20.11 | AnduinLothar | ill just hook OnVerticalScroll, but im curious to know what 1.8 uses |
| 09:21.05 | AnduinLothar | problem is if i hook both OnVerticalScroll and GuildPlayer_Update it'll be called twice on test and once on 1.8 |
| 09:22.00 | Iriel | I'd say you're best off hooking OnVerticalScroll handler to figure out whats going on, then switch to use the appropriate _Update function later |
| 09:22.02 | AnduinLothar | odd |
| 09:22.25 | Iriel | You could even check for the existance of the GuildPlayerStatus_Update function, and if it's there use it rather than the other, or whatever |
| 09:22.29 | Iriel | anyway.., good luck, i'm off to sleep |
| 09:22.56 | AnduinLothar | acording to http://wdn.wowinterface.com/module/reports/4807-4851/summary_files/FileComparisonReport51.html 1.8 and test both have identical OnVerticalScroll handlers.. |
| 09:23.39 | AnduinLothar | that's so confusing.. |
| 09:26.17 | Ktron | heh, just running some benchmarks on a different approach to a split function, then probably hitting the hay |
| 09:27.05 | Ktron | lol |
| 09:27.24 | Ktron | split - total: 10.484, each: 2.0968e-005 |
| 09:27.24 | Ktron | Sea_split - total: 10.656, each: 2.1312e-00 |
| 09:27.24 | Ktron | Explode - total: 54.797, each: 0.000109594 |
| 09:27.55 | krka|work | what is split? |
| 09:28.02 | AnduinLothar | what we worked on |
| 09:28.15 | Ktron | yeah, and sea_split I believe is the original |
| 09:28.24 | AnduinLothar | tho my guess is ur split doesn't have all the regex capibility of the esea one |
| 09:28.45 | krka|work | sea_split = the split in the newest sea? |
| 09:31.50 | Ktron | My version is 'Explode', heh, and doesn't do everything yet of course |
| 09:31.56 | Ktron | and doesn't run fast at all :) |
| 09:32.10 | Ktron | sea_split I think was the original, split I think is in the newest sea |
| 09:32.20 | AnduinLothar | ah |
| 09:33.11 | krka|work | really? i thought there would be a bigger difference than that |
| 09:33.44 | Ktron | hm, I might have a 'in between' code, I'm not sure |
| 09:34.50 | AnduinLothar | 00 - 005 |
| 09:35.09 | AnduinLothar | factor of 50 |
| 09:35.09 | AnduinLothar | ? |
| 09:35.49 | Ktron | ? |
| 09:36.17 | Ktron | split - total: 1.046, each: 2.092e-005 |
| 09:36.17 | Ktron | Sea_split - total: 1.063, each: 2.126e-005 |
| 09:36.17 | Ktron | Explode - total: 5.406, each: 0.00010812 |
| 09:36.17 | Ktron | Explode2 - total: 5.375, each: 0.0001075 |
| 09:36.18 | AnduinLothar | the e values |
| 09:36.45 | Ktron | oh, the first time I put it in here Sea_split lost a 5 on the end, should be e-005 |
| 09:37.23 | AnduinLothar | ya, well the only change to split was localizign the functions and table |
| 09:37.36 | Ktron | I'm convinced I have found an alternate slower approach ;)... ah |
| 09:37.39 | AnduinLothar | getValue got the big optimization |
| 09:37.59 | AnduinLothar | 170% faster by my calculations |
| 09:38.39 | *** part/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 09:40.09 | AnduinLothar | is there a string on any localization that gets closer than button length away from the MOTD button on the guild frame? |
| 09:40.33 | AnduinLothar | ex: "Guild Message Of The Day:" is like 2 button lengths away |
| 09:41.01 | AnduinLothar | and "Player Notes:" is really far away |
| 09:43.24 | AnduinLothar | bah, that changes in 1.9... |
| 09:45.02 | AnduinLothar | mmm, so where should i put the "Bulk Whisper" button.. |
| 09:48.12 | pagefault | AV makes me want to buy a new pc |
| 09:48.24 | Ktron | do you think there's any chance a recursive split would be faster? |
| 09:48.30 | pagefault | getting like 2 fps |
| 09:48.31 | pagefault | no joke |
| 09:48.36 | Ktron | heh |
| 09:49.05 | krka|work | uhm... recursion? O_o |
| 09:49.10 | Ktron | AnduinLothar: are they changing the guildmaster control screen? |
| 09:49.11 | krka|work | how could it possibly be fater? |
| 09:49.13 | krka|work | faster |
| 09:49.15 | Ktron | what was really clunky |
| 09:49.18 | Ktron | *that |
| 09:49.30 | pagefault | voodooo code is faster |
| 09:49.36 | pagefault | but you don't know what it's doing |
| 09:50.02 | Ktron | krka|work: I was thinking about making a fast function to split at the first occurence, and than, you know, concatenating them together |
| 09:50.39 | Ktron | split(str) ... return concat(firststr,split(remainder)) |
| 09:50.42 | krka|work | splitting and then concatening... how is that useful? |
| 09:51.23 | AnduinLothar | concat is bultin i think, but there's a sea copy ofr some extra features |
| 09:51.42 | AnduinLothar | and yes, i beliebe guild control changed in 1.9 |
| 09:51.46 | Ktron | yeah, concat is definitely built in |
| 09:51.53 | AnduinLothar | but since im not in a guild on test.. |
| 09:52.00 | Ktron | AnduinLothar: true true |
| 09:52.09 | Ktron | AnduinLothar: I remember the old one was pretty clunky |
| 09:53.03 | Ktron | krka|work: I was debating whether you could eliminate some of the 'finding' |
| 09:53.16 | Ktron | krka|work: but I suppose not |
| 09:53.23 | krka|work | no, recursion doesn't magically solve that |
| 09:53.36 | Ktron | krka|work: I wasn't thinking magic, psh |
| 09:53.50 | Ktron | krka|work: I might not know what I'm doing, but I know what I'm not doing, and that's magic. |
| 09:55.23 | Ktron | I'm sure some searching could be saved upon |
| 09:55.38 | Ktron | if memory usage was increased, but that's not a very useful tradeoff |
| 09:55.41 | Ktron | I don't know |
| 09:55.46 | Ktron | I'll sleep on such things |
| 09:56.10 | krka|work | you could do it with a single gfind iterator, that's faster |
| 09:56.15 | krka|work | uses more memory though |
| 09:56.16 | AnduinLothar | right, we decided it was better not to swap GC for speed in this case |
| 09:57.23 | groll | morning |
| 09:57.28 | krka|work | indeed |
| 09:58.16 | AnduinLothar | BINGO WhoWhisper is a Go for guild MassWhispering |
| 09:58.48 | AnduinLothar | now for some more sezy GUI elements |
| 09:59.08 | Kalroth | :D |
| 10:00.39 | Ktron | maybe tomorrow I'll try my hand and drawing once again... and maybe LUA functions... and maybe see if I can add a command or two to MoveAnything, or alter the behavior of Lootlink... aight, night people |
| 10:00.54 | AnduinLothar | night |
| 10:01.07 | AnduinLothar | is it possible to get the officer status of guild members? |
| 10:01.35 | Kalroth | you can get guild rank |
| 10:01.55 | AnduinLothar | what rank is officer? |
| 10:02.31 | Ktron|zzz | AnduinLothar: if possible, and if it isn't already implemented, see if you can make a 'silent' option for guild control, so the channel isn't spammed with promotion/demotions if you have to mass change ranks |
| 10:02.51 | Kalroth | Initiate, Member, Veteran, Officer, Leader |
| 10:03.02 | Kalroth | I'm not sure of the actual values, lemme google it |
| 10:03.03 | AnduinLothar | those are default, but can be changed |
| 10:03.21 | Kalroth | Yeah, it's a numerical value |
| 10:03.37 | AnduinLothar | ok, so are there only 5 ranks ever? |
| 10:03.43 | Ktron|zzz | and it seems every guild I've been in at least once has wanted to add a new rank, say just below officers or such |
| 10:03.50 | Ktron|zzz | no, there can be... up to 10 I think |
| 10:03.55 | AnduinLothar | bah |
| 10:04.03 | Kalroth | 10 names, but same ranks, no? |
| 10:04.09 | Ktron|zzz | the old way to add to a new rank, meant renaming the existing ones, and demoting everyone |
| 10:04.35 | Ktron|zzz | you can have 10 ranks I think-- 10 ranks with different names and permissions in one guild |
| 10:04.53 | Ktron|zzz | 1 Guild master, which cannot change |
| 10:04.58 | Kalroth | been too long since I've looked at the guild master interface then, sorry :p |
| 10:05.05 | Ktron|zzz | people always start at the lowest rank |
| 10:05.40 | AnduinLothar | ok so is 2 always officer rank or can you have a lower rankindex and still be officer? |
| 10:05.58 | Ktron|zzz | And the kinds of permissions are hear /o, voice on /o, able to change public notes, able to view officer notes, able to change officer notes, able to promote, able to demote... |
| 10:06.11 | Ktron|zzz | AnduinLothar: its possible |
| 10:06.33 | Depherios | so you'd have to check to see what ranks were given the priveledges of officers |
| 10:06.37 | Ktron|zzz | All the numbers really 'have' to mean is that whatever rank is 'lowest' (probably highest number) is what rank players start at |
| 10:06.38 | Depherios | fun |
| 10:06.39 | AnduinLothar | meh. so there's no real way to know unless u are that person due to the variability of permissions |
| 10:06.53 | Ktron|zzz | and there's a GM |
| 10:06.56 | pagefault | wow |
| 10:07.06 | pagefault | 2780 shadowbolt for the win? |
| 10:07.12 | Ktron|zzz | you could give lower players more permissions than higher ones if it makes sense |
| 10:07.26 | groll | the guildmanagement system totally suck! |
| 10:07.34 | Ktron|zzz | sometimes people will make Officer/Retired/Guild Master structures |
| 10:07.43 | Depherios | yeah, by the sounds of it you could make the starting rank have every power, and officers be like newbs |
| 10:07.45 | Ktron|zzz | with Retired able to hear channels, but not able to speak on them |
| 10:08.07 | Ktron|zzz | oh, and right now, moving a rank towards GM is listed as a promoted, and moving away is demoted |
| 10:08.24 | Depherios | oho! so there's a reason to keep one end high and one low |
| 10:08.26 | Depherios | good to hear |
| 10:08.34 | Ktron|zzz | Depherios: yep |
| 10:08.48 | Ktron|zzz | but there's no effective way to 'add' to the middle |
| 10:08.58 | Depherios | unless you spaced it out to start with |
| 10:09.05 | Ktron|zzz | Depherios: you can't |
| 10:09.08 | Depherios | oh |
| 10:09.09 | Depherios | ouch |
| 10:09.11 | Depherios | lame |
| 10:09.23 | Ktron|zzz | you can only add ranks at the bottom |
| 10:09.29 | Depherios | so every time you add a new rank.... n/m |
| 10:09.33 | Ktron|zzz | Depherios: exactly |
| 10:09.41 | Ktron|zzz | mass demoting FTL |
| 10:09.46 | Depherios | lol |
| 10:09.47 | groll | Ktron|zzz i was just gonna say the same thing :P |
| 10:09.47 | SP|Sorren | hey all, anyone know how you would detect if your spells are in cooldown because you're counterspelled? |
| 10:10.16 | Ktron|zzz | which is why I think at least quieting the msg that pops up for every guildmember while you're mass demoting would at least be kind |
| 10:10.25 | Depherios | ActionIsUsable ? -- is that a Discord Macro Function? |
| 10:10.49 | Ktron|zzz | it'd be incredible to be able to offer a way to have an addon take care of 'renumbering' as necessary |
| 10:11.18 | AnduinLothar | well i could make one mass demote with a click based on checkbox values |
| 10:11.55 | Ktron|zzz | or even a way to go directly from one rank to another-- give people a way to /promote <player> rank# or something, that way you could have parallel ranks |
| 10:12.25 | Ktron|zzz | AnduinLothar: Mass demote with a silencer on the guild msgs for it I bet would get some good use |
| 10:12.29 | AnduinLothar | ya, promote/demote to this rank x |
| 10:12.34 | AnduinLothar | u cant silence them |
| 10:12.52 | Ktron|zzz | AnduinLothar: heh, oh well for that, but promote to specific ranks would be useful anyway |
| 10:12.54 | AnduinLothar | hey're from the system so u can only silence them on recieving end |
| 10:13.03 | Ktron|zzz | AnduinLothar: ah |
| 10:13.32 | Ktron|zzz | Anyway, I better sleep |
| 10:13.43 | Ktron|zzz | see you all in 7 hours or so |
| 10:13.50 | AnduinLothar | but i already have the checkbox system set up. a mass demote or promote is the matter of a 6 line func |
| 10:14.10 | Ktron|zzz | Then AnduinLothar, you win |
| 10:14.21 | AnduinLothar | only issue is gui, where to put the buttons |
| 10:14.37 | AnduinLothar | could make it slashcommand i spose, but i dont want to |
| 10:15.45 | AnduinLothar | anyone know anythign that uses the /command "/gw" ? |
| 10:15.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge digix (n=digix@66-90-145-10.dyn.grandenetworks.net) |
| 10:16.40 | Kalroth | I was about to say yes, but wowguru uses /wg, not /gw :p |
| 10:17.13 | AnduinLothar | maybe i should make the addon called GuildCommander |
| 10:18.32 | AnduinLothar | but i'd have to be a guild master to test it.. |
| 10:19.12 | AnduinLothar | ijj get cair to lend it to me tomorrow i spose |
| 10:26.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge norganna (n=chatzill@CPE-139-168-171-51.qld.bigpond.net.au) |
| 10:26.33 | AnduinLothar | wb norganna |
| 10:27.04 | norganna | Hi :) |
| 10:27.51 | AnduinLothar | how goes? |
| 10:28.47 | norganna | not too bad |
| 10:28.52 | norganna | just home from work |
| 10:29.43 | AnduinLothar | fun fun |
| 10:29.53 | AnduinLothar | any chance ur a guild master? |
| 10:30.04 | norganna | negative |
| 10:30.13 | norganna | they don't love me that much :) |
| 10:30.14 | AnduinLothar | kk |
| 10:30.51 | AnduinLothar | no worries. I'm just trying to find a willing (read gullible) master to let me do some testing with master powers |
| 10:31.02 | norganna | hahah |
| 10:31.25 | norganna | test to see if /gdisband works ;) |
| 10:31.43 | AnduinLothar | nah, mass demotion/promotion and rank insertion |
| 10:31.55 | AnduinLothar | and bulk whispering |
| 10:32.10 | norganna | you need to get a test guild setup |
| 10:32.21 | norganna | hmmm |
| 10:32.26 | norganna | actually |
| 10:32.33 | AnduinLothar | ya, was just gonna ask cair for control of LoadOnDemand for a bit tomorrow |
| 10:32.52 | norganna | u got a char on Proudmoore? |
| 10:33.00 | AnduinLothar | no, but i can make one |
| 10:33.10 | norganna | make one on horde |
| 10:33.16 | norganna | i have a guild lying around there |
| 10:33.16 | AnduinLothar | :) ua master? |
| 10:33.19 | AnduinLothar | nice |
| 10:33.57 | AnduinLothar | so i spose GetGuildRosterInfo doesn't update rank immediately.. |
| 10:34.07 | AnduinLothar | prolyl have to put a time ron it |
| 10:34.27 | AnduinLothar | Chronos.schedule to the rescue |
| 10:34.43 | norganna | lemme know your char name when you get there |
| 10:36.00 | AnduinLothar | Guildmojo in a few sec |
| 10:36.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (i=MoonWolf@ip51ccaa81.speed.planet.nl) |
| 10:38.56 | AnduinLothar | lol |
| 10:38.57 | AnduinLothar | gj |
| 10:39.12 | AnduinLothar | hope u promoted an alt |
| 10:41.42 | AnduinLothar | Temp Guild Error ftw |
| 10:44.40 | norganna | nice :) |
| 10:45.00 | AnduinLothar | if u try to promote to fast.. |
| 10:45.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge clad|sleep (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-51-225.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 10:45.07 | AnduinLothar | it errors |
| 10:45.09 | clad|sleep | Morning. |
| 10:45.12 | AnduinLothar | morning clad |
| 10:45.22 | clad|sleep | Why is it whenever I'm sick, its on a Tuesday? =/ |
| 10:46.02 | norganna | i give up. |
| 10:46.06 | AnduinLothar | stop being sick, i hate tuesdays |
| 10:47.33 | clad|sick | If there was ever a day for me to stay home from work.. its any day but Tuesday. There's nothing more frustrating than getting a coder's itch, and not being able to log in and code =( |
| 10:47.45 | clad|sick | Thats why I prefer library coding... I can do all of that offline =P |
| 10:47.59 | AnduinLothar | test server |
| 10:48.24 | AnduinLothar | sweet, UpdateRank(targetRankIndex works |
| 10:48.39 | AnduinLothar | wonder if i can set it to faster than a sec |
| 10:52.30 | AnduinLothar | .5 works |
| 10:52.40 | AnduinLothar | and 0 rankIndex is mast, not 1 |
| 10:52.44 | AnduinLothar | master* |
| 10:53.23 | AnduinLothar | lol |
| 10:53.29 | AnduinLothar | .2 causes all sorts of errors |
| 10:54.32 | AnduinLothar | .3 works, prolly dependant on latency tho |
| 11:12.12 | AnduinLothar | anyone floating around that can help me test something by makign a char on proudmore? |
| 11:12.35 | clad|sick | what faction? |
| 11:13.03 | Stylpe | Bahaha! |
| 11:13.03 | Stylpe | The word 'politics' is derived from the word 'poly', meaning 'many', and the word 'ticks', meaning 'blood sucking parasites'. |
| 11:13.13 | Stylpe | Â - Larry Hardiman |
| 11:13.19 | clad|sick | hehe |
| 11:13.19 | Depherios | lol |
| 11:13.30 | AnduinLothar | horde |
| 11:13.49 | AnduinLothar | msg Guildmojo when u get on |
| 11:14.00 | AnduinLothar | or jsut tell em ur name |
| 11:15.01 | AnduinLothar | as i may be reloading |
| 11:15.12 | clad|sick | gimme a sec |
| 11:17.25 | pagefault | is it 7 AM or 6 AM EST the servers go down? |
| 11:18.08 | clad|sick | 6am EST normally |
| 11:18.10 | clad|sick | imo |
| 11:18.22 | pagefault | wonder why they aren't down yet |
| 11:18.38 | clad|sick | So when I sit here drinking tea.. my throat feels fine. |
| 11:18.46 | AnduinLothar | well it's 3am PST at and they aren't down yet |
| 11:18.47 | clad|sick | the real question is whether or not I want to go to work today. |
| 11:19.01 | clad|sick | Anduin: yeah.. why are you awake? |
| 11:19.12 | AnduinLothar | i dont liek sleeping |
| 11:19.33 | clad|sick | fair enough =) |
| 11:27.15 | AnduinLothar | bah, can only promote one person every .4 seconds or so |
| 11:27.21 | clad|sick | that sucks |
| 11:27.30 | AnduinLothar | very much so |
| 11:29.07 | clad|sick | what are you trying to do? |
| 11:29.29 | AnduinLothar | mass promotion |
| 11:29.34 | AnduinLothar | or demotion |
| 11:29.45 | AnduinLothar | and an UpdateToRank option |
| 11:30.01 | AnduinLothar | to subsequently rank from say rank 7 to rank 3 |
| 11:30.42 | AnduinLothar | so you can batch rank update any number of guild members to all be one rank or all change rank by a certain number |
| 11:30.49 | clad|sick | *nod* |
| 11:30.51 | clad|sick | sounds fun |
| 11:31.04 | AnduinLothar | one reason is rank insertion |
| 11:31.15 | AnduinLothar | make a new mid rank and demote everyone below it by 1 |
| 11:31.41 | AnduinLothar | or promote a newcommer from Initial to Officer with one click |
| 11:31.48 | clad|sick | well thats it.. im calling into work.. and i guess i'll just have to deal with the servers being down =/ |
| 11:32.00 | AnduinLothar | test server should be up |
| 11:32.17 | clad|sick | here's hoping =) |
| 11:33.08 | AnduinLothar | is the arg table for ... arg or args ? |
| 11:34.20 | clad|sick | arg |
| 11:34.24 | AnduinLothar | thx |
| 11:35.17 | AnduinLothar | WhoWhisperer.UpdateRank will now be recursive with as many people as you want |
| 11:35.24 | clad|sick | i need to logout quick |
| 11:35.25 | clad|sick | brb |
| 11:35.31 | AnduinLothar | k |
| 11:36.19 | clad|sick | u still need me on proudmoore? |
| 11:36.39 | AnduinLothar | ya, plz |
| 11:36.59 | clad|sick | k |
| 11:42.21 | clad|sick | I need to go back to lay down soon |
| 11:45.27 | AnduinLothar | this time delay on rank update seems very arbitrary.. |
| 11:45.40 | clad|sick | its likely not time delay but true latency |
| 11:45.57 | clad|sick | you can't promote someone to a rank two above them.. so unless the first has happened, it won't let the other |
| 11:46.04 | clad|sick | i've seen that a lot with the asynch stuff. |
| 11:46.41 | AnduinLothar | no, i understand that, but i dont know what the relationship to latency is yet |
| 11:47.13 | AnduinLothar | i've seen it not error at .3 delay and still error at 1sec delay |
| 11:47.26 | clad|sick | hrm |
| 11:47.42 | clad|sick | there should be an event you can wait for.. you would think |
| 11:47.56 | Kalroth | if it's that random, then yes there should |
| 11:48.13 | AnduinLothar | mmm possibly... cause it does actually update on the guild frame. there might be an event |
| 11:48.45 | clad|sick | hrm |
| 11:48.46 | clad|sick | *ponder* |
| 11:49.19 | AnduinLothar | GUILD_ROSTER_UPDATE i would imagine |
| 11:50.04 | clad|sick | yeah, but that "supposedly" only fires after you've called GetGuildInfo(), which seems consistent with what we've seen |
| 11:50.24 | AnduinLothar | which would explain why it lags a second everytime i change a rank, cause GuildStatus_Update and FriendsFrame_Update are called, which are hug functions |
| 11:50.38 | AnduinLothar | huge* |
| 11:51.06 | AnduinLothar | hmm, i could unregister that event while ranking, that might speed it up |
| 11:52.47 | clad|sick | alright.. i have to get going.. |
| 11:53.28 | AnduinLothar | k thx |
| 11:53.39 | clad|sick | sorry but i feel like crap =/ |
| 11:53.41 | clad|sick | later |
| 11:54.10 | AnduinLothar | get well |
| 12:04.25 | AnduinLothar | wow.. if you FriendsFrame:UnregisterEvent("GUILD_ROSTER_UPDATE"); then GetGuildRosterInfo seems to stop returning updated information |
| 12:04.42 | Kalroth | Odd |
| 12:04.50 | AnduinLothar | very |
| 12:06.05 | AnduinLothar | maybe i did somehting wrong.. |
| 12:06.20 | Kalroth | quick, find someone to blame |
| 12:15.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tekkub (n=tekkub@ip70-178-70-29.ma.dl.cox.net) |
| 12:19.13 | AnduinLothar | i blame tekkub |
| 12:36.58 | AnduinLothar | looks to be confirmed: FriendsFrame:UnregisterEvent("GUILD_ROSTER_UPDATE"); causes GetGuildRosterInfo to return innacurate rankIndex if you promote or demote after unregistering the event |
| 12:38.49 | AnduinLothar | it looks like it is all updated with GuildRoster() |
| 12:38.57 | AnduinLothar | which is called on that event |
| 12:46.06 | AnduinLothar | servers go down in 15min |
| 12:46.15 | AnduinLothar | at 5am PST |
| 12:48.23 | AnduinLothar | norganna, do u need guild leader back tonight or can i give it back at a later time after im done testing? |
| 12:57.41 | AnduinLothar | ok well for the time being i still have control. I'm going to sleep. If yo u need it back I can promote you upon waking |
| 13:05.07 | *** part/#wowi-lounge philr (n=phil@59.167.154.171) |
| 13:08.11 | norganna | later is fine |
| 13:11.19 | AnduinLothar | kk, to bypass the outgoing trafic limit I've set the whispers to go out on a delay based on cumulative characters per second / max chars per sec (currently 255) |
| 13:12.14 | AnduinLothar | so a 1 character message will go out to 255 guild members in a second |
| 13:13.27 | AnduinLothar | 25 char msg will take 4 seconds to whisper to 100 members |
| 13:14.38 | AnduinLothar | 50 character msg will take 8 seconds to send to 40 people |
| 13:15.08 | AnduinLothar | 50 people even |
| 13:15.24 | AnduinLothar | anyway... hope that's what that guy want |
| 13:15.24 | AnduinLothar | s |
| 13:41.03 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Bela|SLEEP (n=Beladona@115-60.124-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 13:42.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=Beladona@24.129.136.26) |
| 13:42.12 | *** mode/#WoWI-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 13:53.14 | pagefault | lots of angst on the forum |
| 13:53.17 | pagefault | it's a tuesday |
| 13:54.00 | Kalroth | lol |
| 13:54.35 | pagefault | there is this one fellow who demands to know why maintenence takes place at it's current time and why it takes 6-8 hours |
| 13:54.49 | pagefault | he demands that GM's and devs answer him |
| 13:55.08 | pagefault | I will simply tell him that if they stop to answer his rediculous posts it will just extend the maintence even more |
| 14:12.48 | Beladona | are they patching? |
| 14:13.08 | Beladona | I know they aren't doing 1.9, but just thought they might be merging in more changes |
| 14:13.18 | Beladona | i.e. 1.8.5 or something |
| 14:13.34 | Codayus | !!! |
| 14:13.41 | Codayus | I've got habenero pepper... |
| 14:13.44 | Codayus | ...in my eye! |
| 14:13.49 | Codayus | Not...happy! |
| 14:14.15 | Codayus | brb. Sticking head into sink or something. :-( |
| 14:15.46 | Beladona | you got pepper in your eye, and you took the time to type it out to us? |
| 14:15.49 | Beladona | geek |
| 14:16.11 | Beladona | that one is going on bash.org |
| 14:16.30 | Codayus | :-( |
| 14:16.46 | Codayus | Honestly, why does something which tastes so *good* hurt so *badly*? |
| 14:16.58 | Codayus | There's probably a moral there, but I'm going to ignore it. |
| 14:19.21 | Beladona | submitted |
| 14:19.46 | Beladona | http://bash.org/?589905 |
| 14:20.00 | Codayus | :-/ |
| 14:20.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-223-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 14:38.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gello (n=chatzill@pool-71-241-219-77.port.east.verizon.net) |
| 14:45.55 | Gello | is there any way to get a link (item:0000:0:0:0) from an item on the action bar? |
| 15:00.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (i=Parak@x403442a4.ip.e-nt.net) |
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| 15:12.03 | digix | i suppose its too early to tell whether 1.9 is out today huh |
| 15:14.15 | Legorol | it's not coming out today |
| 15:14.36 | Gello | i hope the christmas stuff is today |
| 15:15.01 | Codayus | I was too low lvl last year for the cool christmas stuff |
| 15:15.08 | Codayus | No snowball maker for me. :-( |
| 15:15.28 | Codayus | This year, I want the cool lewtz! :-) |
| 15:15.32 | Gello | i have a snowball maker but too lazy to keep production up :( hehe but it's fun to surprise someone now and then |
| 15:17.19 | Codayus | Actually, what I want more than anything is Pattern: Green Holiday Shirt |
| 15:18.16 | Gello | INV_Helmet_67 and INV_Helmet_68 are santa hats, new in 1.8.4 |
| 15:18.50 | Codayus | Nice looking, and would match the armor on one of my chars, but for the life of me I can't seem to find anyone who can make them. Or has heard of them. :-( |
| 15:34.46 | Tain | ~today |
| 15:34.47 | purl | Tuesday sucks, because it follows Monday (see monday). |
| 15:34.53 | Tain | You're so right, purl. |
| 15:35.18 | Codayus | That's not the only reason tuesday sucks. |
| 15:35.25 | Codayus | See also - maintance. :-( |
| 15:36.12 | Tain | The one (almost) advantage to having to work. |
| 15:36.56 | Gello | test server is up at least during maintenance usually |
| 15:38.18 | Gello | how widespread is having multiple identical items with different enchants? do people do it a lot? |
| 15:41.21 | digix | i know quite a few rogues who do that |
| 15:41.55 | Codayus | I know a few people with dual skullforge reavers. |
| 15:42.05 | Codayus | There's no particular reason why you'd put the same enchant on both. |
| 15:42.08 | digix | one of ours has like 4 gutgores with different enchants on them |
| 15:43.50 | Gello | hmm |
| 15:44.00 | Codayus | I saw a lvl 40 twink with dual gut rippers with different enchants. Cruser and +15 agility...silly waste of cash. |
| 15:44.35 | Gello | i'm almost done with a new mod that will benefit those who do that, but it's going to be a lot of work heh |
| 15:45.08 | Gello | i had hoped with nexus crystals people would stop looting multiple epics to do different enchants. but forgot about weapons |
| 15:45.21 | Codayus | My thought is that most weapons don't work well dual wielded, and there's not a lot of reason to go with situational enchants... |
| 15:45.42 | Codayus | But there *are* people who do it. :-) |
| 15:47.25 | Gello | hmm. this mod replaces the icons of specific items (to make mc cap look different than rocket helm). hard decision if the work is worth it |
| 15:47.30 | Beladona | why wouldn't you want situational enchants? |
| 15:47.49 | Beladona | for one as a warrior, I had different weapons that either did, or didn't cause a lot of hate |
| 15:48.12 | Codayus | Beladona: Doesn't seem like the payoff is worth the effort. |
| 15:48.21 | Beladona | I disagree |
| 15:48.23 | Codayus | Ah? Example? |
| 15:48.30 | Tain | Level 40 with dual Gutrippers isn't a waste of cash if you have it. You'll absolutely blow through things. |
| 15:48.34 | Beladona | would need to log on to get you the names |
| 15:48.39 | Beladona | but I had at least 3 1 handers |
| 15:48.49 | Gello | all with different enchants? |
| 15:48.52 | Beladona | aye |
| 15:49.01 | Tain | Why not? |
| 15:49.10 | Beladona | fiery, ice, etc.. |
| 15:49.13 | Tain | If you can do it why wouldn't you for different situations? |
| 15:49.15 | Gello | same three tho? like reaver+icy, reaver+crusader, reaver+lifestealing? |
| 15:49.32 | Beladona | believe I had two of the same swords, for dual wielding |
| 15:50.03 | Beladona | and I alternated them as one hander when using shield |
| 15:50.05 | Gello | oh my warrior has like 7 weapons on him hehe. weapons are very situational. the original thought was on identical weapons of different enchants |
| 15:50.18 | Beladona | even had a macro script that would allow me to toggle quickly |
| 15:50.20 | Codayus | But why have different enchants? |
| 15:50.29 | Beladona | because they have different effects |
| 15:51.02 | Gello | well in a raid a fury warrior could have sufficient agi to keep furry going, so they may opt for str over agi |
| 15:51.25 | Beladona | aye |
| 15:51.29 | Tain | You definitely wouldn't use a firey enchant in MC for example. |
| 15:51.29 | Codayus | Well, yeah. But what I'm wondering about is what sitation would lead you to... |
| 15:51.34 | Codayus | Ah, right. That makes some sense. |
| 15:51.38 | Beladona | exactly Tain |
| 15:51.44 | Beladona | I also had multiple shields |
| 15:52.10 | Tain | You might use an Agi enchant when you're not worried about being the main tank and want to get some big crits in. |
| 15:52.44 | Beladona | I had a shield that procced an ae, that I used in Pvp |
| 15:52.54 | Beladona | and then one I used for regular PvE |
| 15:53.05 | Codayus | I guess I must hand around too many Arms warriors. Normally I see warriors who DPS use a two-hander, not the same weapon they tank with but with a different enchant. :-) |
| 15:53.23 | Beladona | it depends really |
| 15:53.28 | Codayus | But it makes sense, I guess. <shrug> |
| 15:53.30 | Beladona | I have owned some 60 rogues with duals |
| 15:54.00 | Tain | A warrior should own 60 Rogues, if you don't get stunlocked or massively Ambushed. |
| 15:54.11 | Beladona | yeah |
| 15:54.14 | Codayus | I'm with Tain on this one. :-) |
| 15:54.17 | Beladona | Retaliate FTW |
| 15:54.33 | Gello | well the dilemma is really, how useful would a mod be that could change the icon of a skullforge reaver+15 agi to something different than a skullforge reaver+15 str |
| 15:54.40 | Beladona | I only met one rogue that was smart enough to turn attack off when I used it |
| 15:54.46 | Codayus | Okay, I'll revise my earlier comment. I don't think there's a good reason for anyone but fury warriors to have two identifcal weapons with different enchants. :-) |
| 15:55.05 | Tain | I remember reading a post from someone as a Rogue saying they could never beat Warriors at pvp. Someone asked what their normal strategy was. |
| 15:55.12 | Codayus | Beladona: Hmm, doesn't that have a new and really obvious graphic in 1.9? |
| 15:55.13 | Tain | He said well first I turn on Evade. |
| 15:55.14 | Beladona | Gello, I think it would be helpful, but how different? |
| 15:55.31 | Gello | oh any of 1500+ icons, or all icons in 1.9 |
| 15:55.37 | Beladona | it may, but I hope not. Retaliate is one of the warriors main tricks agains rogues |
| 15:55.56 | Beladona | I don't know that I would change the icon drastically |
| 15:56.00 | Codayus | I'm pretty sure it now surrounds the warrior with giant floating shields or something. |
| 15:56.10 | Beladona | maybe a small letter indicator, or a color tint, or something |
| 15:56.22 | Gello | it changes items with different names but same icon (mc cap vs rocket helm) now and it's just about ready to post |
| 15:56.26 | Beladona | thats not Retaliate Codayus |
| 15:56.37 | Codayus | Oh? I get confused easily. |
| 15:56.51 | Beladona | and what you are thinking of has that graphic now |
| 15:57.00 | Codayus | What do you think I'm thinking of? |
| 15:57.07 | Beladona | Shielkd Wall |
| 15:57.11 | Codayus | Nope |
| 15:57.12 | Beladona | err Shield Wall even |
| 15:57.28 | Beladona | hang on, I need to log in and try it on test |
| 15:57.32 | Codayus | Let me find that damn screenshot... |
| 15:57.56 | Tain | I'm more worried about Overpower as a Rogue. |
| 15:58.24 | Beladona | bastards! |
| 15:58.29 | Beladona | they did bring down test |
| 15:58.33 | Gello | doh really |
| 15:58.35 | Codayus | Oh noes! |
| 15:58.36 | Beladona | argh |
| 15:58.36 | Gello | i'm on test. pve |
| 15:58.43 | Beladona | really? |
| 15:58.46 | Gello | yeah in stormwind |
| 15:58.47 | Beladona | I can't get onto pvp |
| 15:58.55 | Gello | oh pvp has been down for a while :( |
| 15:59.14 | Beladona | I tried normal too |
| 15:59.20 | Beladona | it doesn't give me a server list |
| 15:59.23 | Gello | hmm i better not log out |
| 15:59.37 | Beladona | well damn |
| 16:02.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge malreth (n=malreth@cpe-70-113-94-7.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 16:02.18 | Gello | one issue of supporting items of different enchants is there's no handy link for action slot items |
| 16:02.24 | malreth | mwrar~~ |
| 16:02.29 | Gello | hola |
| 16:03.02 | Beladona | hey Codayus, keep looking for that screeny |
| 16:03.10 | Beladona | you got me all paranoid now |
| 16:03.12 | Codayus | WTB: Forums with a working search. |
| 16:03.15 | Codayus | :-( |
| 16:03.20 | Beladona | although shields is a really stupid icon for Retaliate |
| 16:03.30 | Beladona | it has nothing to do with defense |
| 16:03.34 | Codayus | Some kind of shield or weapon or something. |
| 16:03.39 | Codayus | I wasn't paying attention. :-) |
| 16:03.55 | Codayus | Or it might be a completely different skill. <shrug> Let me see... |
| 16:03.57 | Gello | Retaliation is two crossed swords |
| 16:04.43 | Gello | Interface\Icons\Ability_Warrior_Challenge |
| 16:05.08 | Tain | It still annoys me that forums logins are down when the servers come down. |
| 16:05.28 | Beladona | is it similar to the balaced stance icon? |
| 16:05.34 | Beladona | balanced* |
| 16:05.59 | Gello | battle is crossed maces, defense is a shield, berserker is that dwarf |
| 16:06.05 | Beladona | personally I think they shoulda left it alone |
| 16:06.21 | Beladona | gives rogues an advantage |
| 16:06.31 | Beladona | its like slapping a neon sign up "Stun Me" |
| 16:06.38 | Tain | Then again I guess it would annoy me more to see two pages full of, "Why are the servers down?" "When will the servers be up?" "I'm tired of this, I'm a paying customer and I deserve to be able to play.' |
| 16:07.14 | Gello | ooh i see hey neat |
| 16:07.26 | Gello | retaliation has a bunch of spinning swords |
| 16:07.32 | Beladona | mm |
| 16:07.43 | Beladona | did they add a sound too? |
| 16:07.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower_ (n=void@eacb01-00-crlnpr-24-48-144-65.miamfl.adelphia.net) |
| 16:07.53 | Gello | sound is off :( i'll let you know in 30 mins hehe |
| 16:07.55 | Beladona | "WARNING WILL ROBINSON, WARNING" |
| 16:08.03 | Beladona | haha |
| 16:08.08 | Codayus | Still can't find the screenshot. |
| 16:08.22 | Codayus | But I guess Gello can confirm the graphic. ;-) |
| 16:08.25 | Codayus | How obvious is it? |
| 16:08.33 | Beladona | when they enable server moves I am gonna move my warrior to Draka |
| 16:08.33 | Gello | it's really obvious |
| 16:08.46 | Codayus | That's what the screenshot looked like. :-( |
| 16:08.48 | Beladona | you know how pissed warriors are going to be? |
| 16:08.48 | Gello | which will rock for shield wall |
| 16:09.01 | Tain | hmm I hadn't thought of that, Beladona. I have a couple of characters I could move. |
| 16:09.20 | Tain | Characters that I just don't play today on other servers. |
| 16:09.23 | Gello | yeah for pvp those graphics will hurt |
| 16:09.33 | Codayus | I'm a rogue, and I still think that's a silly change. If you get pwned by a 30 min cooldown skill, it's because you deserved it. |
| 16:09.43 | Beladona | aye |
| 16:09.50 | Beladona | a lot of rogues do though |
| 16:09.57 | Beladona | now Retal will be fairly useless |
| 16:10.01 | Codayus | Meh, a lot of them are idiot.s |
| 16:10.16 | Beladona | like I said, I only ever met ONE that knew to back off |
| 16:10.18 | Tain | Nah, less useless against a smart opponent, but the vast majority of players aren't. |
| 16:10.23 | Codayus | If I had a dollar for every rogue I saw offhanding a thrash blade and mainhanding a < 1.5s dagger... oO |
| 16:10.35 | Tain | Besides, there's still Overpower. |
| 16:10.36 | Codayus | I'd have, uh....enough for a large pepperoni pizza! |
| 16:10.39 | Codayus | Mmmmm, pizza. |
| 16:10.50 | Tain | Codayus: The one time that's useful is poisons. |
| 16:10.54 | Beladona | I like fighting Pallies |
| 16:10.59 | Beladona | omg are they fun |
| 16:11.05 | Beladona | warrior vs pally is epic |
| 16:11.09 | Codayus | Tain: Even with poisons, you want something better than thrash in your offhand. |
| 16:11.20 | Beladona | lemme rephrase, TALENTED warrior vs pally |
| 16:11.28 | Beladona | who knows how to interrupt |
| 16:11.39 | Codayus | Too slow. |
| 16:11.56 | Tain | Yeah, but it's not quite as important. I mean yes of course you should have something better, but a Rogue's offhand doesn't really do that much damage to begin with, even with improved dual wielding. |
| 16:11.59 | Codayus | Either they've got the wrong offhand or the wrong mainhand. |
| 16:12.39 | Codayus | Right...which makes it mostly there for the poison and, hopefully, the stats. |
| 16:12.43 | Tain | I mean I'd almost rather have a rusty dagger with +15 AGI than a really big offhand. |
| 16:12.52 | Tain | Almost. :) |
| 16:12.55 | Codayus | Thrash blade sucks for both. |
| 16:13.23 | Tain | I don't even remember what my Rogue wields. |
| 16:13.27 | Beladona | ooh |
| 16:13.33 | Beladona | ok they added the graphic to Retal |
| 16:13.35 | Beladona | but |
| 16:13.36 | Tain | Haven't played him in a while. |
| 16:13.38 | Beladona | they also improved it |
| 16:13.44 | Codayus | I don't have the numbers in front of me, but if memory serves, when you count max rank instant poison and stats, a bonescraper out damages the eskander offhand claw. :-) |
| 16:13.49 | Beladona | or rather, *fixed* it |
| 16:14.15 | Beladona | and sword spec works better too |
| 16:14.28 | Beladona | wow, warriors actually are gonna be a tad better |
| 16:15.03 | Beladona | damnit though, they nerfed Enrage |
| 16:15.10 | Codayus | YEah, that one sucks a bit. |
| 16:15.13 | Gello | yeah :( that one hurts |
| 16:15.23 | Beladona | from 40 to 25? |
| 16:15.26 | Beladona | holy crap |
| 16:15.36 | Codayus | Hey fury warriors, have a nice big kick in the nuts! :-/ |
| 16:15.43 | Beladona | haha |
| 16:15.48 | Codayus | But, meh, could be worse. |
| 16:16.02 | Tain | Oh yeah, was using Maces. |
| 16:16.06 | Beladona | yeah, they could make enrage auto polymorph you if you miss |
| 16:16.13 | Beladona | 0.o |
| 16:16.27 | Beladona | bout as worse as I can think of |
| 16:17.07 | Tain | Just switching out to a Heartseeker for Ambush. Nothing special. |
| 16:17.17 | Codayus | Heh, what's really funny is bloodthirst. |
| 16:17.29 | Codayus | Bumped up to doing 45% of AP from 40%. |
| 16:17.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (i=MoonWolf@ip51ccaa81.speed.planet.nl) |
| 16:17.58 | Codayus | Yeah, like that fixes it? oO (I've heard there are some warriors who swear by the talent though. <shrug> Don't see it myself.) |
| 16:18.18 | Beladona | anyone manage to get a look at the new Guild UI? |
| 16:18.31 | Tain | Not I. |
| 16:18.43 | Beladona | I didn't join a guild on test so... |
| 16:37.35 | Tain | Another one down. Cute girl I work with just got engaged. |
| 16:37.49 | Beladona | doh |
| 16:37.50 | malreth | DIABOLICAL! |
| 16:37.58 | Tain | Crazy kids. |
| 16:38.12 | Tain | She's only 24/25 |
| 16:46.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kremonte (n=help@ool-18bba4ea.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 16:56.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka (i=krka@c80-216-103-22.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 16:56.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ForgottenLords (n=Forgotte@059.216-123-195-0.interbaun.com) |
| 16:56.49 | kremonte | dead channel :{ |
| 16:57.02 | Beladona | you keeled it! |
| 16:57.11 | kremonte | T_T |
| 16:58.14 | futrtrubl | X_X |
| 17:06.07 | kergoth | morning |
| 17:06.25 | kremonte | morning Cair |
| 17:06.29 | Cair | hey |
| 17:06.36 | Beladona | morning |
| 17:06.40 | Beladona | or rather afternoon |
| 17:06.46 | Cair | yeah |
| 17:07.07 | kergoth | meh |
| 17:07.08 | kergoth | ~mornings |
| 17:07.10 | purl | Mornings MUST be destroyed! (see also http://www.destroymornings.com/) |
| 17:07.32 | Cair | anyone want this cold/mono/strep/whatever it is that I've got? giving it away free! |
| 17:07.47 | kergoth | you're so generous |
| 17:07.55 | Cair | that's me, heart of gold |
| 17:07.59 | krka | I want! |
| 17:08.09 | Beladona | anyone wanna help with with a quick oo question? |
| 17:08.20 | malreth | fire away |
| 17:08.40 | Beladona | do I need to pass self as the first argument if the function is already contained in a table |
| 17:08.49 | Beladona | within the lua |
| 17:09.01 | Beladona | example: |
| 17:09.11 | krka | yes you do |
| 17:09.20 | malreth | if you use tablename.function() then yes |
| 17:09.42 | malreth | need to see your example, tho |
| 17:09.42 | Beladona | myTable = {myFunction = function() self.MyOtherFunction; end;}; |
| 17:10.02 | krka | yes, you need self there |
| 17:10.31 | Beladona | think we are confused |
| 17:10.33 | Beladona | wait |
| 17:10.33 | malreth | myTable = { myFunction = function(self) self.MyOtherFunction; end } |
| 17:10.42 | Beladona | kk tahts what I was asking |
| 17:10.50 | malreth | lemme think |
| 17:10.56 | krka | btw, that is kind of a pointless function |
| 17:11.00 | malreth | it's early... |
| 17:11.05 | Beladona | its an example |
| 17:11.12 | Beladona | not representative of my actual code |
| 17:11.13 | krka | did yo mean this? myTable = { myFunction = function(self) self:MyOtherFunction(); end } |
| 17:11.22 | krka | notice : and () |
| 17:11.35 | malreth | ^^ what krka said |
| 17:12.09 | Beladona | I already knew that, just for some reason I left it out in my example |
| 17:12.13 | Beladona | =P |
| 17:12.17 | malreth | function myTable:myFunction() self:MyOtherFunction() end is also valid |
| 17:12.30 | Beladona | yeah |
| 17:12.39 | Beladona | just trying to avoid typing out longer table references |
| 17:12.41 | malreth | provided myTable = {} has already been defined |
| 17:12.43 | krka | except you cant define it like that inside a table |
| 17:12.49 | Beladona | specifically I store all my adons under a single namespace |
| 17:13.04 | Beladona | so it would be namespace.addon.function |
| 17:13.10 | Beladona | easier to use self references |
| 17:13.47 | Beladona | correct me if that didn't sound right |
| 17:14.28 | malreth | i guess you could do that |
| 17:15.09 | Beladona | will post a small example on pastebin in a sec |
| 17:18.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower|AFK (n=chatzill@eacb01-00-crlnpr-24-48-144-65.miamfl.adelphia.net) |
| 17:19.29 | Tain | Single namespace is the way to go. |
| 17:19.53 | Tain | It saves adding all that nonsense to the global namespace. |
| 17:21.43 | Gello | the xml adds a lot more to global namespace than most lua |
| 17:22.07 | Beladona | that is something we can't modify |
| 17:22.25 | Gello | yeah |
| 17:22.51 | malreth | hmm... |
| 17:22.58 | malreth | is it? |
| 17:23.27 | Gello | when you use a template for instance, all the named stuff it inherits go straight to global namespace |
| 17:24.19 | malreth | XML puts stuff in the global namespace, but couldn't you then in your OnLoad handler or something like that go through your frames, assign them to MyAddon.UIElements table or whatever, then nil the globals? |
| 17:24.32 | Tain | You just have to control what you can. |
| 17:24.46 | Tain | I'm not sure, malreth. |
| 17:24.46 | Gello | once i've got a lull in projects i hope to do a test to determine when the performance impact of a polluted global namespace exceed the performance impact of a global table lookup vs locals |
| 17:25.23 | Tain | I'm not sure about the performance, really for me at least it's a matter of what I think is good practice. |
| 17:25.47 | Gello | yeah it's a very valid view |
| 17:26.06 | Beladona | you can reference a table within your lua, but all it does is create a pointer |
| 17:26.16 | Beladona | frames essentially create tables |
| 17:26.38 | Beladona | so the frame table would still be there in the global namespace, you would just be pointing to it with your lua table |
| 17:27.10 | clad|sick | You could remove the reference in the global namespace tho, and it would get GC'd on the next cycle, and the frame would still exist. |
| 17:27.17 | clad|sick | Just changes the way we do everything with frames |
| 17:27.21 | Beladona | aye |
| 17:27.28 | malreth | i thought frames create userobject types? |
| 17:27.47 | malreth | sorry... userdata |
| 17:28.06 | Tain | I think is exactly what AceGUI does, clad. Just as an example. |
| 17:28.20 | Beladona | what we need is a way to direct where the frame goes via the frame name |
| 17:28.26 | malreth | oh, doesn't matter. userdata and tables are passed by reference in lua |
| 17:28.30 | Beladona | ie MyTable.MyFrameName |
| 17:28.38 | malreth | i agree with Beladona |
| 17:29.12 | Beladona | not sure how that would impact load times though |
| 17:29.17 | Beladona | worth testing |
| 17:29.23 | Beladona | once we can that is |
| 17:30.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@63-228-96-74.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 17:30.13 | malreth | it'd be the difference between adding an element to a global table versus adding an element to /the/ global table. i don't think there'd be much difference |
| 17:30.53 | Tain | The XML right now though seems a lot more limited than the Lua code. For example if you want to use a variable for the TEXT field in a fontstring you can use a global you've defined. But I couldn't see a way to assign that within the XML to a variable in a single constant setup. |
| 17:31.13 | Tain | I also didn't spend much time on it since it was annoying me. |
| 17:31.34 | Beladona | well there is a very small impact between a global namespace function and one embedded in a table |
| 17:31.43 | Beladona | I think Clad had the timing on it |
| 17:32.09 | clad|sick | Beladona: The cost of a table lookup is tiny |
| 17:32.14 | Beladona | aye |
| 17:32.29 | Tain | More importantly it's prettier. :) |
| 17:32.36 | clad|sick | But Iriel (And I agree) is of the school of thought that making a local reference to that table is far and away a better idea, in particular if its referenced more than once. |
| 17:32.39 | Beladona | heck yeah |
| 17:33.00 | Beladona | thats a good way to do it |
| 17:33.29 | clad|sick | where you get issues is myNameSpace.functions.util.hooking.hook(blah, blah), and you reference that over and over again.. should be utilTable = myNameSpace.functions.util.hooking |
| 17:33.31 | clad|sick | etc. |
| 17:33.43 | Beladona | exactly |
| 17:33.48 | malreth | there's a 1.10 changes thread... we should post something about passing table references as frame names |
| 17:34.07 | clad|sick | 1.10 thread is only for news.. not suggestions. |
| 17:34.13 | clad|sick | If you post suggestions in there it'll get deleted again |
| 17:34.13 | Beladona | that is what I am looking at with mine atm, but in most cases I can just reference 'this' for the frame, and do a self for the rest |
| 17:34.24 | malreth | ah... |
| 17:34.28 | clad|sick | ("this" is kinda sketchy imo) |
| 17:34.39 | clad|sick | we have no control over this, and all the control in the world over "self" |
| 17:34.47 | Beladona | true |
| 17:34.55 | Beladona | and if it gets hooked or used in someone elses mod... |
| 17:35.01 | clad|sick | *nod*. |
| 17:35.23 | clad|sick | I went through a lot of troubles with this when writing AceHooks.. but it works beautifully. It can get very confusing with self.. but at least we can control it |
| 17:35.52 | krka | table lookup is not tiny in some cases |
| 17:35.58 | Beladona | yeah I was using that as a reference while I was conforming mine to the same format |
| 17:36.19 | clad|sick | krka: its always cheap.. its the only real consistent thing we have |
| 17:36.21 | krka | you can get big performance boosts from avoiding lookups |
| 17:36.40 | clad|sick | krka: Of course.. hence my requirement that we localize the table references |
| 17:36.41 | Gello | you don't think table growth gets kinda bloated? |
| 17:37.12 | krka | i don't see the problem with global namespace though |
| 17:37.32 | clad|sick | krka: The problem with the global namespace is when someone uses a global variable with the same name as yours |
| 17:37.42 | clad|sick | take a util functino like GetHex(r,b,g,a) |
| 17:37.48 | krka | yeah well of course that |
| 17:37.54 | clad|sick | which in your implementatino returns a string color code. |
| 17:37.57 | krka | i make sure to use long names |
| 17:38.00 | clad|sick | someone can overwrite that.. casually. |
| 17:38.04 | krka | <AddonName>_functionname |
| 17:38.08 | clad|sick | *shrug* its better organizatino to use a single namespace. |
| 17:38.21 | clad|sick | Not to mention it looks and acts cleaner. |
| 17:38.30 | krka | or more likely <AddonName>_<Category>_<FrameName> |
| 17:39.16 | Beladona | wouldn't it be just as easy to replace those underscores with periods and just stick it in a table? |
| 17:39.50 | krka | you can do that for frames? |
| 17:39.51 | Beladona | for one thing, it makes dumping stuff from the table easier |
| 17:40.05 | clad|sick | having self available makes things very nice in lots of cases.. but you have to code for those cases in order to get good use out of it. |
| 17:40.13 | Beladona | was referencing your function comment |
| 17:40.18 | krka | self is just syntactic sugar |
| 17:40.23 | clad|sick | The first thing I do when my frames are initialized, is make local shortcuts in the frame. |
| 17:40.27 | clad|sick | yes.. but I like sugar |
| 17:40.45 | Beladona | if done right, using self allows function to become reusable, and makes your code smaller and faster |
| 17:40.52 | clad|sick | WatchDog.player.hpbar = WatchDogFrame_player_StatusBar1 |
| 17:40.59 | krka | do you mean self, or the : operator=? |
| 17:41.13 | clad|sick | both. |
| 17:41.14 | Gello | how faster? |
| 17:41.19 | Beladona | well |
| 17:41.26 | Eraphine|Lab | Gello, can I ask you a question? |
| 17:41.28 | clad|sick | It doesn't actually increase speed.. its about organization |
| 17:41.32 | krka | don't see how self makes things more reusable |
| 17:41.34 | Gello | sure |
| 17:41.40 | Beladona | instead of referencing several function, you can easily use the same function for separate purposes |
| 17:41.46 | Eraphine|Lab | Is there a way for me to create a macro to modify a set without going into the set menu? |
| 17:41.55 | krka | can you provide an example? |
| 17:42.01 | krka | not sure I follow |
| 17:42.09 | Beladona | clad might have a couple from ace |
| 17:42.11 | Gello | oh not sure offhand. i don't think so |
| 17:42.17 | clad|sick | hrm.. gimme a sec |
| 17:42.50 | clad|sick | http://wow.pastebin.com/462488 |
| 17:42.56 | clad|sick | That's AceHooks in its entirety |
| 17:43.08 | Beladona | I come from a heavy php background, and in my experience reusable classes are faster and much cleaner than recoding over and over |
| 17:43.52 | Beladona | obviously you don't see the benefits until you really start using it a lot |
| 17:43.54 | Gello | but i can't see the faster bit. easier and more organized sure. but i don't see how it's faster |
| 17:44.07 | clad|sick | It a.) keeps a local table of hook references in each individual addon, using self. |
| 17:44.07 | clad|sick | b.) uses an :Embed function so the calling object "inherits" the methods contained within, making it embedded |
| 17:44.07 | clad|sick | c.) etc. |
| 17:44.19 | clad|sick | Gello: Its not actualy faster. |
| 17:44.30 | Gello | ah ok hehe |
| 17:44.32 | clad|sick | Gello: However, if you localize table references, its not slower by any margin |
| 17:44.33 | Beladona | when in-game no |
| 17:44.37 | Beladona | when coding yes |
| 17:46.12 | Gello | i made a new mod entirely in one table. (well, two, one is for saved variables). and it has over 140 globals due to the xml |
| 17:46.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-51-225.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 17:46.29 | Tain | Use less XML. :) |
| 17:46.34 | cladhaire | back.. not sure what the last msg you got was.. |
| 17:46.39 | Gello | yeah it looks that way hehe |
| 17:46.40 | cladhaire | connection spanked out. |
| 17:46.43 | krka | function AceHook.Unhook(it_is_me, arg1, arg2) if type(arg1) == "string" then it_is_me.UnhookFunc(it_is_me, arg1) else it_is_me.UnhookMeth(it_is_me, arg1, arg2) end end |
| 17:47.01 | krka | you see that that is exactly the same thing as how it's written in pastebin right? |
| 17:47.07 | cladhaire | yes |
| 17:47.27 | Beladona | its the same implementation |
| 17:47.27 | krka | but I agree, it's a useful coding pattern |
| 17:47.33 | cladhaire | what are you saying by that.. |
| 17:47.47 | Beladona | ther eis just no reason not to use self in that case |
| 17:47.52 | Cair | cladhaire: clad|sick: Gello: However, if you localize table references, its not slower by any margin |
| 17:47.56 | krka | just making sure we understand each other |
| 17:48.01 | cladhaire | Thanks Cair |
| 17:48.07 | Gello | oh yeah caught that. it makes sense |
| 17:48.12 | cladhaire | krka: But here's the difference. |
| 17:48.24 | cladhaire | krka: You end up adding an entire function call as a wrapper in that case. |
| 17:48.29 | Beladona | when I talk about using self, I am including what you just posed krka |
| 17:48.40 | Beladona | its more the implementation than anyrthing |
| 17:48.41 | cladhaire | krka: if you want to use any sort of inheritance native to the system |
| 17:49.08 | cladhaire | krka: For example.. if you want to give YOUR class that method, you'll obviously do MyNameSpace.method = AceHooks.method |
| 17:49.09 | krka | hm |
| 17:49.25 | cladhaire | and you can call that using MyNameSpace.method(MyNameSpace) |
| 17:49.33 | cladhaire | or you can self:Method() |
| 17:49.37 | krka | agreed |
| 17:49.52 | krka | not seeing the functional difference tuogh |
| 17:50.02 | cladhaire | There isn't one, between the code you posted and the code I posted |
| 17:50.09 | cladhaire | they're the same thing, as you stated. |
| 17:50.17 | krka | didn't you just now say that there was? |
| 17:50.21 | krka | or what were you referring to then |
| 17:50.39 | cladhaire | i was talking in general.. and my point got lost, cause I was wrong in that case. |
| 17:51.02 | cladhaire | I applied what you wrote to an inherited world using self, in which case you need a wrapper. |
| 17:51.31 | cladhaire | sorry about that-- not feeling well |
| 17:51.38 | krka | agreed, : is very nice for reducing typing |
| 17:52.24 | Beladona | the resistance to that format is more about people not wanting to figure it out more than anything I think |
| 17:52.24 | cladhaire | It honestly depends on what your goals are, and if your goal is to play as nicely with other AddOns, then a single namespace is a good idea.. and would generate EXACTLY one OP overhead if done correctly =) |
| 17:53.11 | krka | here is how i do OO in LUA at the moment: http://wow.pastebin.com/459694 |
| 17:53.22 | Tain | That reminds me, is there a difference performance wise between doing |
| 17:53.51 | krka | I'd appreciate feedback on that from more experienced Lua-OO coders |
| 17:54.00 | krka | (yes, YOU!) |
| 17:54.13 | cladhaire | That's a procedural approach to OO. |
| 17:54.15 | cladhaire | gimme a second =) |
| 17:54.26 | krka | procedural approach? |
| 17:54.37 | krka | i just tried to emulate Java as much as possible |
| 17:54.42 | krka | so i guess you're right |
| 17:55.05 | Tain | getglobal(foo):bar() and foo:bar() ? |
| 17:55.28 | krka | yes, same thing |
| 17:55.36 | krka | getglobal is probably slower |
| 17:55.39 | krka | oops |
| 17:55.47 | krka | you mean getglobal("foo"):bar() |
| 17:55.48 | malreth | tain: getglobal method is slower |
| 17:55.51 | krka | getglobal uses a string |
| 17:55.58 | Beladona | obviously in that example there is no reason to getglobal if you know the name of foo |
| 17:56.26 | Tain | Ok. That's it, Beladona. When you are using variables. |
| 17:56.30 | Beladona | getglobal("foo"..i)::bar(); is a better example methinks |
| 17:56.35 | ForgottenLords | getglobal is best used for concatenating i into a name |
| 17:56.37 | krka | double :? |
| 17:56.41 | Beladona | mistype |
| 17:56.42 | malreth | type |
| 17:57.08 | Tain | I just wasn't sure if there was a difference, I like consistency. But I like performance better. |
| 17:57.12 | cladhaire | http://wow.pastebin.com/462505 |
| 17:57.15 | cladhaire | There's my response.. |
| 17:57.33 | cladhaire | =) |
| 17:58.02 | krka | ooh... metatable |
| 17:58.03 | malreth | cladhaire: line 54 can be setmetatable(queue, {__index = self}), right? |
| 17:58.05 | krka | please explain that one |
| 17:58.08 | cladhaire | Tain: getglobal (I hope) is just a matter of _G[arg] |
| 17:58.18 | cladhaire | Hehe okay. |
| 17:58.37 | cladhaire | the __index metaMETHOD of a metatable (which is the second arg to setmetatable) tells the table what to do if it can't find an index. |
| 17:58.55 | cladhaire | for example: local frank = {}; print(frank.foo) |
| 17:59.04 | krka | why does Queue.new() need the self argument? |
| 17:59.06 | cladhaire | that would obviously return nil.. which is likely what we'd expect it to |
| 17:59.12 | cladhaire | krka: it doesn't. |
| 17:59.13 | cladhaire | type |
| 17:59.25 | krka | I would prefer function Queue.new() then |
| 17:59.30 | cladhaire | wait.. i didn't get it one. |
| 17:59.33 | cladhaire | well |
| 17:59.36 | krka | : should be strictly for member functions |
| 17:59.57 | cladhaire | in this case it doesn't make a difference |
| 18:00.02 | Beladona | here is a question I haven't really explored |
| 18:00.16 | Beladona | whats the drawbacks of inserting code into frame tables |
| 18:00.17 | cladhaire | and there COULD be some stuff in your creation method that would be better with the use of self, rather than the class name itself. |
| 18:00.21 | krka | true, since it doesn't take any arguments at all |
| 18:00.28 | Beladona | or can we |
| 18:00.28 | krka | but let's say you had Queue.new(size) |
| 18:00.31 | cladhaire | Bela: In what way? |
| 18:00.49 | cladhaire | Beladona: for example function PlayerFrame.MyMethod() -- blah end |
| 18:00.52 | Beladona | ie, I have a frame called wdnExpBarFrame. What stops me from adding more to that table |
| 18:00.57 | krka | if you defined function Queue:new(size) and someone called it with Queue.new(size) you'd be in trouble |
| 18:00.59 | cladhaire | Beladona: nothing at all =) |
| 18:01.05 | Beladona | using it as my OO |
| 18:01.06 | cladhaire | Beladona: its how Visor works as a matter of fact. |
| 18:01.15 | cladhaire | krka: Well, thats why you define usage.. and be consistent. |
| 18:01.29 | malreth | krka: that'd just be calling the function incorrectly |
| 18:01.31 | cladhaire | krka: in this case .. it should continue being a method as opposed to a function |
| 18:01.39 | cladhaire | ok.. to finish the metatable discussion.. |
| 18:01.53 | cladhaire | when I setmetatable(queue, {__index = Queue}) |
| 18:01.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge _aLF (n=Alexandr@mut38-2-82-67-66-128.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:02.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=NOYB@rhhe10-109.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 18:02.31 | cladhaire | it tells the table queue that whenever it finds a NIL index.. (queue.frank) then it should look at Queue, and return that index. |
| 18:02.37 | Cair | hey Alex |
| 18:02.43 | cladhaire | Literally tells queue to inherit everything from Queue. |
| 18:02.46 | krka | interesting... but wouldn't that be slower than my method? |
| 18:03.00 | krka | one extra lookup |
| 18:03.04 | Cair | and Osagasu |
| 18:03.05 | cladhaire | krka: in theory.. but to a marginal amount |
| 18:03.13 | krka | also, that would get messier for each level of inheritance |
| 18:03.19 | cladhaire | krka: if you look at AceHooks, I use an :Embed function to do exactly what you did |
| 18:03.19 | malreth | krka: more importantly, clad's way uses less memory |
| 18:03.34 | krka | less memory? how? |
| 18:03.38 | cladhaire | krka: I just posted that for discussion purposes.. I wouldn't use metatables there, its a waste of a metatable. |
| 18:03.42 | Beladona | so example: I should be able to do function frameName:OnLoad() and then use self within my RegisterEvents? |
| 18:03.45 | krka | ah, true, each object don't have to remember its functions |
| 18:04.02 | cladhaire | Beladona: yes |
| 18:04.15 | malreth | every queue object that you make using your way has a table with all of the queue elements plus 4 more... the four functions for push, pop, clear, size |
| 18:04.31 | cladhaire | krka: the memory saved is marginal.. but its the method thats used in WoW for all frame methods.. :GetScript, :Show, etc. |
| 18:04.47 | cladhaire | they reference a single metatable.. which references the C functions that determine type and dispatch |
| 18:04.57 | cladhaire | The important things to note here: |
| 18:05.01 | malreth | every queue object that clad makes has just a table with only the queue elements. |
| 18:05.06 | krka | hm, OO in Lua is not as easy as in Java, imo |
| 18:05.17 | cladhaire | krka: nope.. its not intuitive.. but very powerful nonetheless |
| 18:05.29 | malreth | krka: it's just a lot more manual... |
| 18:05.40 | krka | it's like doing OO in assembler :/ |
| 18:05.46 | cladhaire | a.) You shouldn't optimize your code before its done.. That's programmers rule #1. Make your code work You can use best practices, but over optimizing breaks things |
| 18:06.05 | cladhaire | b.) You need to be careful when optimizing.. about what you're changing.. how you're changing it.. and more important .. why you're changing it. |
| 18:06.12 | krka | agreed |
| 18:06.27 | krka | would be interesting to compare our solutions for speed :) |
| 18:06.45 | cladhaire | krka: very easy to do =) |
| 18:07.08 | krka | yeah |
| 18:07.26 | krka | annoying that you have to fiddle with metatables to do that kind of OO |
| 18:07.26 | Eraphine|Lab | How does one benchmark this anyway? |
| 18:07.41 | Eraphine|Lab | Is there a WoW compiler? |
| 18:07.43 | krka | fortunately though, our methods are cross compatable |
| 18:07.45 | Tain | You don't have to use metatables, there's just situations where they make a lot of sense. |
| 18:07.54 | krka | there is a standard lua engine Eraphine|Lab |
| 18:08.00 | malreth | Eraphine|Lab: you can use a standalone lua interpreter |
| 18:08.02 | krka | luac and lua |
| 18:08.03 | Eraphine|Lab | nice :) |
| 18:08.15 | malreth | www.lua.org |
| 18:08.16 | cladhaire | Tain: *nod* |
| 18:08.39 | cladhaire | Tain: Ace doesn't use metamethods for module inheritance.. and I think that's smart. I think my :Embed() is the wave of the future however |
| 18:08.50 | krka | i can easily see cases where both our methods would be preferred |
| 18:08.54 | Tain | I do like the idea, cladhaire |
| 18:09.21 | krka | what is this :Embed you keep talking about? |
| 18:10.46 | krka | thanks for all the OO help btw! I appreciate ite |
| 18:10.47 | krka | -e |
| 18:11.01 | cladhaire | krka |
| 18:11.26 | cladhaire | http://wow.pastebin.com/462533 |
| 18:11.31 | cladhaire | just a different way to handle inheritance. |
| 18:11.42 | cladhaire | Puts the embedding/inheritance on the library.. not the addon that uses it. |
| 18:11.52 | krka | i see |
| 18:12.34 | krka | wouldn't lua actually be more suitable for prototype based OO? |
| 18:12.55 | krka | inheriting would be the same thing as copying then |
| 18:13.28 | cladhaire | It can be.. but there is lots of magic to be done with metatables |
| 18:13.38 | krka | i bet |
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| 18:15.39 | cladhaire | gimme a sec, i'm making a queue class |
| 18:16.19 | futrtrubl | are classes something I should know about? |
| 18:16.59 | malreth | if you're hardcore... eh, if you want |
| 18:17.34 | futrtrubl | hmm.. when or why would I want to know about classes? |
| 18:17.54 | Beladona | this might be useful to someone |
| 18:17.56 | Beladona | http://lua-users.org/wiki/SimpleLuaClasses |
| 18:19.37 | krka | http://lua-users.org/wiki/ObjectOrientationTutorial |
| 18:19.40 | krka | that one is handy too |
| 18:20.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Natasem (n=Natasem@63.197.112.216) |
| 18:20.25 | Natasem | anyone know who to e-mail to report a gold selling site |
| 18:20.59 | Beladona | lol |
| 18:21.00 | malreth | chapters 11, 13, and 16 in the PIL are good too: http://www.lua.org/pil/index.html |
| 18:22.12 | cladhaire | krka: incoming =) |
| 18:22.25 | cladhaire | http://wow.pastebin.com/462548 |
| 18:22.31 | cladhaire | Thats how i would implement the queue |
| 18:22.43 | cladhaire | at least this morning.. how I feel right now =) but you'll find it somewhat consistent with my coding style. |
| 18:25.43 | cladhaire | I really should get to work on Bishop.. but I can't find the motivation.. I'd rather write queues =) |
| 18:25.46 | krka | ouch, not very efficient I think :) |
| 18:25.50 | Natasem | http://cgi.ebay.com/World-of-warcraft-60-Mage-on-gilneas-server_W0QQitemZ8240885756QQcategoryZ4596QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting |
| 18:25.54 | krka | more readable than mine though |
| 18:26.17 | cladhaire | krka: why do you think its not efficient? |
| 18:26.30 | malreth | table.inserts and table.removes are expensive |
| 18:26.45 | krka | lots of function calls, also table.insert, table.remove |
| 18:26.45 | malreth | but they do make the code self-documenting |
| 18:26.53 | cladhaire | its more than self documenting. |
| 18:27.00 | cladhaire | it makes sure the tables follow a specific order. |
| 18:27.01 | krka | also, won't table.insert / remove reindex the table? |
| 18:27.13 | cladhaire | table.insert and remove are relatively cheap in our world. |
| 18:27.21 | _aLF | http://www.lua.org/pil/11.4.html is nearly OO |
| 18:27.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kremonte (n=help@ool-18bba4ea.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 18:27.43 | Natasem | someone should tell that n00b that selling of Blizzards propertyfor money is against TOS and that moron left his name on his screenshot |
| 18:27.48 | kremonte | now i know why people hate saien, he is such an ass |
| 18:27.58 | kremonte | Natasem, who? |
| 18:28.02 | Natasem | http://cgi.ebay.com/World-of-warcraft-60-Mage-on-gilneas-server_W0QQitemZ8240885756QQcategoryZ4596QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting |
| 18:28.25 | ForgottenLords | Does anyone know how I can tell the chatframe to temporarily ignore the "No player named "soandso" is currently playing"? |
| 18:28.26 | kremonte | lol |
| 18:28.35 | Tain | ~saien |
| 18:29.04 | kremonte | someone said they cant equip 2 mindtap talismans, and his reply was "No, it won't" |
| 18:29.32 | cladhaire | krka: can you link your code again for me? |
| 18:29.52 | Tain | Oh yeah. |
| 18:29.56 | Tain | ~emulate saien |
| 18:29.57 | purl | I can most certainly judge code without having ever used it |
| 18:32.42 | Gryphen | lol |
| 18:33.32 | cladhaire | krka: wake up beyatch |
| 18:34.09 | Cair | kremonte: where? |
| 18:34.11 | cladhaire | I need soup.. but we have none =/ |
| 18:34.22 | Beladona | no soup for joo |
| 18:34.22 | krka | my queue code? |
| 18:34.27 | cladhaire | krka: yeah |
| 18:34.46 | krka | damn I write a lot of crap |
| 18:34.49 | Cair | cladhaire: no soup for you, come back, 1 year! |
| 18:34.50 | krka | couldn't find it in my history :() |
| 18:34.57 | cladhaire | Cair =( Sad face. |
| 18:35.24 | cladhaire | krka: i'll find it on the pastebin. im an idito |
| 18:35.24 | krka | http://wow.pastebin.com/459694 |
| 18:35.25 | krka | there |
| 18:35.46 | Cair | undoubtedly one of the best of the Seinfeld episodes |
| 18:37.53 | Cair | neither do I, but that one was funny |
| 18:39.56 | cladhaire | PROFILE: Timing for CladQueue took 57.182 seconds (0.228728 average) with 10904 KiB of memory usage |
| 18:39.57 | cladhaire | PROFILE: Timing for KrkaQueue took 11.778 seconds (0.047112 average) with 14525 KiB of memory usage |
| 18:40.14 | cladhaire | (now i'm going to optimize mine and see what sort of overhead we incur from the OO.. in this case).. but it shouldn't be any different. |
| 18:41.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Trilian (n=trilian@dyndsl-085-016-021-115.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 18:42.39 | Natasem | zinwrath's Blizzcon 2005 coverage http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=11586 |
| 18:42.59 | Beladona | so yours took longer but used less memory |
| 18:44.20 | cladhaire | Bela: yeah, in this case. |
| 18:44.31 | cladhaire | Bela: Mine was also incurring the penalty from function calls |
| 18:44.59 | cladhaire | PROFILE: Timing for Test took 13.366 seconds (0.053464 average) with 14832 KiB of memory usage, after the first optimization, etc. |
| 18:45.03 | cladhaire | it goes on forever =) |
| 18:45.13 | Beladona | hehe |
| 18:46.06 | cladhaire | k im gonna get back to bishop.. but i'll still be here.. just gonna stop playing with queues. |
| 18:46.49 | krka | i wonder what caused the memory diff |
| 18:46.59 | krka | did you a lot of different objects? |
| 18:47.35 | cladhaire | krka: Not really.. it wasn't copy and paste code tho. |
| 18:47.44 | cladhaire | gimme a sec, i'll put up some more solid numbers |
| 18:48.27 | Beladona | what time is the server supposed to come back up? |
| 18:48.32 | cladhaire | there was an element of randomness that wasn't meant ot be in there |
| 18:48.37 | Beladona | would like to test something =P |
| 18:48.38 | cladhaire | Bela: Its coming up 11 PST |
| 18:48.44 | cladhaire | Bela: but test server is up now. |
| 18:48.49 | Beladona | ayy |
| 18:48.55 | Beladona | cool that will work |
| 18:49.23 | Cair | servers are up |
| 18:49.32 | Beladona | ping! |
| 18:49.36 | Beladona | is there a patch? |
| 18:49.39 | Cair | pong! |
| 18:49.40 | Cair | no |
| 18:49.44 | Beladona | thank god |
| 18:50.22 | Cair | Beladona: one suggestion on your exp bar |
| 18:50.30 | Beladona | yes? |
| 18:50.35 | Cair | make it draggable by the lvl, as well as the bar itself |
| 18:50.42 | Beladona | include dancing bunnies? |
| 18:50.48 | Cair | heh |
| 18:50.50 | Beladona | oh yeah I can do that |
| 18:50.57 | cladhaire | Hrm.. my realm isn't up yet =/ |
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| 18:50.59 | cladhaire | well one of mine |
| 18:51.17 | Cair | I keep trying to grab it by the level and drag it, and it doesn't work |
| 18:51.29 | Beladona | yeah I noticed that last night |
| 18:51.31 | Cair | but (to me), it's more logical to grab it there, than on the bar itself |
| 18:53.29 | cladhaire | PROFILE: Timing for Test took 36.191 seconds (0.144764 average) with 5750 KiB of memory usage |
| 18:53.29 | cladhaire | PROFILE: Timing for Krka: took 37.014 seconds (0.148056 average) with 5750 KiB of memory usage |
| 18:53.42 | cladhaire | those nums are running the exact same codepath.. |
| 18:53.49 | cladhaire | so its all happy fun =) |
| 18:54.18 | Beladona | thought you were done with that, and gonna work on bishop? |
| 18:54.24 | Beladona | you are as bad as I am |
| 18:54.27 | Beladona | hehe |
| 18:55.04 | Parak | don't rush a miracle worker, or you'll get rotten miracles |
| 18:55.15 | tem|sleep | rawr! |
| 18:55.16 | Beladona | lol |
| 18:55.42 | cladhaire | Bela: I just ran the tests in the background.. since my server isn't up =( |
| 18:55.55 | Beladona | just messing with ya |
| 18:55.59 | Beladona | its so much fun after all |
| 18:56.15 | cladhaire | =) |
| 18:57.29 | Beladona | I just had a brain fart |
| 18:57.37 | Beladona | is SetScript live? or test? |
| 18:57.45 | cladhaire | live |
| 18:57.48 | Beladona | good |
| 18:57.51 | Beladona | =P |
| 18:58.54 | cladhaire | ~lick parak |
| 18:58.56 | purl | ACTION licks parak *SHLUUURRRRPPP* |
| 18:59.07 | Parak | ewww, bot slobber |
| 18:59.14 | cladhaire | its better than clad slobber =) |
| 18:59.26 | Parak | speaking of slobber, http://www.vgcats.com/comics/ |
| 19:00.03 | kremonte | hmm, sto stop spoofing, couldnt you jsut run a GetItemInfo on the link before its sent, and DC you if ItemName doesnt match? |
| 19:00.07 | cladhaire | lol |
| 19:02.33 | cladhaire | Why are we on the lowbw page? |
| 19:03.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Depherios (n=Deph@67.189.88.161) |
| 19:04.23 | krka | interesting cladhaire |
| 19:04.44 | Beladona | kremonte, what would stop someone from hooking that to prevent the DC? |
| 19:04.59 | Cair | cladhaire: lowbw page? |
| 19:05.04 | kremonte | that's a little extreme just to spoof a link.. |
| 19:05.20 | Beladona | never underestimate spoofers |
| 19:05.27 | Beladona | if it can be done, it will be done |
| 19:05.31 | kremonte | "never underestimate hackers" :x |
| 19:05.40 | kremonte | hmm |
| 19:05.54 | cladhaire | Cair: yeah, the wow main site.. is onlow bandwidth |
| 19:05.57 | kremonte | use an inaccessible function to do it or something? ._.; |
| 19:06.01 | kremonte | i'm not sure how the API works |
| 19:06.03 | Cair | ah |
| 19:06.39 | Beladona | maybe dolby is doing something |
| 19:06.50 | Beladona | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:06.51 | kremonte | or you could validate it not-client-side from the person sending the link |
| 19:07.55 | Cair | Bela ... WoW, not WoWI |
| 19:09.04 | Beladona | oh |
| 19:09.50 | Beladona | might be in the middle of some kind of news update or something stupid |
| 19:09.55 | Beladona | who can tell with those jokers |
| 19:10.31 | Beladona | hey clad, have a question about the SetScript |
| 19:10.34 | cladhaire | k |
| 19:10.45 | Legorol | evening |
| 19:10.52 | Cair | hey Lego |
| 19:10.57 | cladhaire | hey Legorol |
| 19:11.02 | Beladona | does the second argument HAVE to be a function? Or can I do two separate functions |
| 19:11.34 | cladhaire | Beladona not sure what you mean exactly.. each frame can only have ONE script handler. So the answer is yes, it must be a function =) |
| 19:11.47 | Beladona | example |
| 19:11.55 | Beladona | PlayerFrame:SetScript("OnEvent", PlayerFrame_OnEvent(event); PlayerLevelText:SetText(" ");); |
| 19:12.34 | cladhaire | Beladona: PlayerFrame:SetScript("OnEvent", function() PlayerFrame_OnEvent(event): PlayerLevelText:SetText(" ") end) |
| 19:13.11 | Beladona | figured |
| 19:14.11 | cladhaire | or you could hook it but thats silly in this case. |
| 19:14.18 | Beladona | yeah |
| 19:14.22 | Beladona | this makes it simpler |
| 19:15.06 | Beladona | managed to optimize my code pretty well, hopefully I didn't break anything |
| 19:15.11 | Beladona | now to find out... |
| 19:16.19 | cladhaire | lol |
| 19:24.01 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Cera (i=user@c-69-181-62-117.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:32.29 | malreth | rewrote the Queue class, but it's nasty looking code. no function calls, though. |
| 19:32.59 | malreth | someone had to keep obsessing over it after cladhaire let go |
| 19:34.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Trilian2 (n=trilian@dyndsl-085-016-000-049.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 19:35.32 | krka | heh |
| 19:35.45 | malreth | cladhaire: do you mind posting the script you were using to profile that class? I'd like to see how this compares. |
| 19:36.14 | krka | my version also lacked function calls though |
| 19:36.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Malivil (n=Alaerand@209-6-253-11.c3-0.frm-ubr2.sbo-frm.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 19:38.01 | cladhaire | http://wow.pastebin.com/462668 |
| 19:38.04 | cladhaire | thats my generic profile function |
| 19:38.20 | cladhaire | my test function just did 5 pushes, then 5 pops, using math.random(100) |
| 19:40.38 | Beladona | I take it the SetScript function doesn't allow this inheritence |
| 19:41.00 | cladhaire | ? |
| 19:41.20 | Beladona | PlayerFrame:SetScript("OnUpdate", function() PlayerFrame_OnUpdate(); PlayerLevelText:SetText(" "); end); |
| 19:41.37 | cladhaire | not sure what inheritance you mean |
| 19:41.38 | Beladona | the PlayerFrame_OnUpdate(); is dying on line 125 of the lua it is contained in |
| 19:41.45 | Beladona | 135 scuse me |
| 19:42.34 | Beladona | wait I might know why |
| 19:43.18 | Beladona | ahh yeah, my mistake |
| 19:43.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Depherios (n=Deph@67.189.88.161) |
| 19:47.43 | ForgottenLords | is there a GetVersion(UIName) function? |
| 19:48.01 | cladhaire | not sure what you mean |
| 19:48.16 | ForgottenLords | something that returns the Version of the UI mod in question |
| 19:48.18 | Cair | ROFLMAO |
| 19:48.19 | cladhaire | to get the versino of an addon? no, that informatino is all contained in the addon itself. |
| 19:49.13 | Cair | if you haven't already, watch the movie that Natasem linked! |
| 19:49.30 | cladhaire | its downloading now |
| 19:49.32 | Cair | it was worth the download time |
| 19:50.01 | Cair | damnit, I had *such* a good time at BlizzCon! |
| 19:50.05 | cladhaire | :P |
| 19:50.07 | cladhaire | ./jealous |
| 19:50.17 | Cair | you guys *have* to go next year |
| 19:50.48 | cladhaire | i will be there will bells on |
| 19:50.51 | Beladona | I shall |
| 19:51.06 | cladhaire | Cair: you should drive down and we'll fly together |
| 19:52.05 | Cair | speaking of flying together, *when* are you coming up here? |
| 19:52.16 | cladhaire | When I get a chance |
| 19:52.18 | cladhaire | soon |
| 19:52.26 | cladhaire | jan/feb ish likely |
| 19:52.28 | Cair | you said you were coming up to see some concert ... |
| 19:52.34 | cladhaire | yeah we can't make it for that |
| 19:52.36 | Cair | cool |
| 19:52.41 | Cair | ah, bummer |
| 19:53.12 | Natasem | zinwrath's Blizzcon 2005 coverage http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=11586 |
| 19:53.27 | Natasem | just incase ya'll missed it the first time |
| 19:55.00 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Malivil (n=Alaerand@209-6-253-11.c3-0.frm-ubr2.sbo-frm.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 19:55.45 | Cair | cladhaire: just wait to come up until after hubby goes back to NY ;) |
| 19:55.54 | cladhaire | hahah |
| 19:55.56 | cladhaire | =) |
| 20:02.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-66-123-190-42.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 20:03.07 | cladhaire | afternoon Iriel |
| 20:03.33 | Iriel | 'lo |
| 20:03.35 | malreth | bah, we're all percentage points from each other |
| 20:04.21 | Cair | hey Iriel |
| 20:15.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@204.128.192.37) |
| 20:23.13 | Depherios | Yay ram finally got here |
| 20:23.21 | Depherios | More addons FTW |
| 20:23.35 | cladhaire | O.o |
| 20:23.35 | cladhaire | kik |
| 20:24.35 | Tain | I've been monitoring my cpu and memory lately while playing WoW (and CoV) since I never really have. |
| 20:24.55 | Tain | With 1 gig RAM I hover at 90% memory use during normal play. |
| 20:25.16 | Depherios | ditto |
| 20:25.20 | Depherios | now I'll have 1.5 gigs |
| 20:25.26 | Depherios | hopefully that'll help |
| 20:25.50 | Depherios | now to call dell tech support and figure out why my mom's laptop doesn't have an antennae cable in where the mini PCI card goes in *sigh* |
| 20:25.54 | Tain | Yeah, I'd be interested to see. I thought 1gig was still plenty more than things really needed, but I guess I'm living in the past. :) |
| 20:26.08 | Depherios | my GF got another 512 and it really helped in the cities and raids |
| 20:26.17 | Depherios | Tain, I thought so too |
| 20:26.30 | Depherios | I'm still holding on to my belief that my 1.58 gig can do everything but Half Life 2 and FEAR |
| 20:26.39 | Depherios | 1.58 gig processor rather |
| 20:27.54 | Natasem | ya in the last 3 patches it seems the game takes alot mroe ram, back in patch 1.3 i had lag with 512 so i upgraded to 1 gig and lost all lag even in large pvp raids, but now with 1.8.4 out i come to a grinding halt even with 1gig and a radeon 9800 pro 256,b video card |
| 20:28.22 | Beladona | 1.9 should help alleviate some of that |
| 20:29.08 | Cair | Bela, Dolby posted R5 for consideration |
| 20:30.08 | Beladona | woot |
| 20:30.21 | Beladona | just in time for me to upload a new version of xpbar |
| 20:30.22 | Natasem | hey cair any word from sasha (maker of Call to arms) it's been a long time coming for his new release |
| 20:30.23 | Cair | yeah, I'm liking it |
| 20:30.43 | Cair | haven't heard a thing Nat ... try posting on his thread :) |
| 20:30.47 | Beladona | Cair, you request is in this version |
| 20:30.50 | Natasem | i have |
| 20:30.54 | Beladona | can drag from anywhere now |
| 20:30.57 | Cair | cool |
| 20:31.04 | Natasem | i am the last person to post on his thread about a month ago lol |
| 20:31.22 | Cair | try PMing him then |
| 20:32.16 | Cair | and much as I hate saying it ... check the other sites, see if he's updated anywhere else? |
| 20:34.53 | Beladona | new version up |
| 20:35.21 | Cair | *downloads* |
| 20:37.30 | Beladona | changed the frame up a bit. The numbers seem better aligned now as a result |
| 20:38.14 | Cair | *nod* |
| 20:39.31 | Cair | Beladona: you broke something ... aggro isn't showing up in the other circle now |
| 20:39.45 | Cair | the little cross swords are gone |
| 20:39.49 | kremonte | hmm |
| 20:40.02 | Cair | crossed* |
| 20:40.06 | kremonte | are there any adapters to connect a moderately old laptop HD to my computer? |
| 20:41.01 | Beladona | Cair? |
| 20:41.05 | Beladona | really? |
| 20:41.10 | Cair | really |
| 20:41.17 | Beladona | damn |
| 20:41.21 | Tain | Yes kremonte, there are laptop harddrive to desktop ide cable adapters. |
| 20:41.23 | Cair | yup |
| 20:41.27 | Beladona | 0ctaviusHackeysac1 |
| 20:41.39 | Cair | lol, huh? |
| 20:41.52 | kremonte | Tain - I don't think it's IDE |
| 20:42.15 | kremonte | http://www.ultratec.co.uk/dbimages/models/07N8326thumb.jpg |
| 20:42.15 | Iriel | How old is 'moderately old' then? |
| 20:42.23 | kremonte | the side says it's UDMA100 |
| 20:42.29 | kremonte | under interface, i'm not sure if that's it |
| 20:42.32 | Tain | That's IDE. |
| 20:42.34 | Iriel | That'd be IDE |
| 20:42.45 | Beladona | that pic is tiny |
| 20:42.47 | Iriel | And the adapters cost very little |
| 20:42.48 | kremonte | wierd, it's pins are totally different from his other computer |
| 20:42.56 | Tain | That's why you need the adapter. |
| 20:42.59 | kremonte | what would i search for? |
| 20:43.10 | Iriel | You can remove the 'thumb' part for a bigger image |
| 20:43.22 | Iriel | I bought one not so long ago, let me find the site... |
| 20:44.55 | Iriel | http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=244974&sku=C184-17705 |
| 20:44.59 | Beladona | stealth fix going up in a sec Cair |
| 20:45.04 | Cair | k |
| 20:45.21 | Beladona | sorry about that, I shoulda tested more |
| 20:45.28 | Cair | bah |
| 20:45.41 | kremonte | Iriel- that would work with this HD? |
| 20:45.49 | Cair | Beladona: hello, what is one of the aims of this channel and the in-game guilds? |
| 20:46.20 | Beladona | yeah |
| 20:46.22 | Beladona | I know |
| 20:46.26 | Cair | :) |
| 20:47.01 | Beladona | I just wish I had got you to test it before I uploaded it for public =P |
| 20:47.04 | Iriel | kremonte : Probably, let me verify for sure |
| 20:47.46 | kremonte | i can take a pic of the connector on the HD if necessary ^^; |
| 20:48.39 | Iriel | Everything implies it's a standard ATA notebook drive |
| 20:50.08 | Iriel | By the way, to search for those adapters... |
| 20:50.25 | Iriel | IDC44F/IDC40M |
| 20:50.32 | Iriel | seems to be the best search term |
| 20:51.32 | kremonte | Iriel, how are you so smart =O |
| 20:51.56 | Iriel | google 8-) ? |
| 20:52.07 | kremonte | google doesn't teach you how to be smart! |
| 20:54.08 | Beladona | Cair: updated again |
| 20:54.10 | Cair | k |
| 20:56.17 | Natasem | yay /spellstop is being "exploited" |
| 20:56.18 | Natasem | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=6221348 |
| 20:56.26 | Beladona | Cait: do you think it would be more beneficial to replace the normal level indicator with a graphic? |
| 20:56.32 | Beladona | err, Cair |
| 20:56.35 | Cair | Beladona: that fixed it |
| 20:56.52 | Cair | ummm *shrug* |
| 20:57.04 | Beladona | I am just not fond of the little -- |
| 20:57.10 | Beladona | =P |
| 20:57.10 | Cair | looks kinda funny when you aren't ...yeah |
| 20:57.21 | Beladona | looks weird with the level there too though |
| 20:57.27 | Cair | *yeah |
| 20:57.37 | Beladona | hmm, gonna have to think on that one |
| 20:57.41 | Cair | *nod* |
| 20:58.40 | Beladona | gotta run, be back a while later |
| 20:58.52 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=Beladona@24.129.136.26) |
| 20:58.54 | Iriel | Ooh, does that mean they fixed SpellStopCasting() ? |
| 20:59.15 | kremonte | ok, gonna go see if they have it at compUSA; thanks again Iriel |
| 21:01.48 | Tem | What? Did they make it so SpellStopCasting wouldn't allow multiple spells with one keypress? |
| 21:02.09 | Iriel | Someone implied this in the forum |
| 21:02.18 | Iriel | On 1.9 |
| 21:02.47 | Tem | awesome! |
| 21:02.53 | Iriel | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=279532&s=new&tmp=1#new |
| 21:03.07 | Tem | However, less than a week ago I was on the test server |
| 21:03.08 | Iriel | I'd want to see some tests from people whose experimental discipline I trust |
| 21:03.09 | Tem | and I used it |
| 21:03.15 | Iriel | i.e. -- Tem, please try it 8-) |
| 21:03.39 | Tem | so unless Test has been patched since I tried, it's not been changed |
| 21:03.39 | Cair | why does it not surprise me that they'd break it, ever since that one thread |
| 21:04.04 | Iriel | Well, since it's a paladin, it could be specific to those skills |
| 21:04.09 | Cair | well, actually, let me rephrase that |
| 21:04.33 | Cair | why does it not surprise me that they'd *fix* it |
| 21:04.46 | Cair | since it shouldn't be possible |
| 21:04.52 | Tem | ah test got a patch |
| 21:06.09 | Tem | good lord I need to format so bad |
| 21:06.56 | Iriel | windows getting fat? |
| 21:07.18 | Tem | I'm out of space |
| 21:07.29 | Iriel | Can't you just uninstall some things? |
| 21:07.31 | Tem | I'm looking for stuff to delete so that wow will patch >< |
| 21:07.41 | Iriel | like old wow patch exe's |
| 21:08.07 | cladhaire | i have to keep those around, in case i need to reinstall =) |
| 21:08.18 | Tem | I'm also a packrat so the only way I can force myself to delete stuff is by forgetting to save it when I format |
| 21:09.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge RedcXe (i=L@cpe-72-225-160-49.si.res.rr.com) |
| 21:09.09 | Iriel | Interestingly there are 2 conflicting threads on the forum |
| 21:09.18 | Iriel | One says you can only do <Judge> <Stop> <Seal> |
| 21:09.32 | Iriel | And the other says that <Seal> <Stop> <Judge> works on 1.8 and not on 1.9 |
| 21:09.53 | cladhaire | Well Seals activate the global cooldown, unless I'm insane. |
| 21:09.58 | cladhaire | wch is possible. |
| 21:10.09 | Iriel | so it's possible that the person claiming there's a change is just mistaken |
| 21:10.54 | Tem | yeah probably |
| 21:11.21 | Tem | seems trying to compress a 700MB file has ground my pc to a halt |
| 21:14.49 | Iriel | heh |
| 21:15.18 | Iriel | my poor machine at home is recovering a 230GB raid array |
| 21:15.28 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:15.40 | Tem | hah |
| 21:16.46 | Iriel | it was nice enough to email me to tell me it was having issues though |
| 21:16.56 | Tem | that's nifty |
| 21:17.53 | Iriel | yeah, i hadn't even realized it was set up that way |
| 21:18.09 | Iriel | A DegradedArray event had been detected on md device /dev/md1. |
| 21:18.17 | Iriel | Neat eh? |
| 21:18.43 | Tem | very |
| 21:18.50 | Iriel | what isn't neat is the failure in the first place, but that was my fault |
| 21:18.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Bela|SLEEP (n=Beladona@115-60.124-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 21:18.58 | *** mode/#WoWI-lounge [+o Bela|SLEEP] by ChanServ |
| 21:19.04 | Iriel | I started the array before one of the drives was ready |
| 21:19.26 | Tem | well it's certainly cool that it could detect a problem and notify you about it via email |
| 21:19.35 | Tem | so you could start it fixing while you were at work |
| 21:19.41 | Iriel | yeah |
| 21:20.09 | Tem | I don't even want to know what he was trying to post |
| 21:20.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Natasem (n=Natasem@63.197.112.216) |
| 21:20.50 | Tem | well I'm gonna go get some food while my computer tries to compress this |
| 21:21.46 | norganna | 'morning everyone |
| 21:24.42 | Cair | hey norganna :) |
| 21:24.47 | Cair | Legorol: you here? |
| 21:25.10 | Cair | someone translated EquipCompare into Simplified Chinese for you, link is on your thread at WoWI |
| 21:26.29 | Beladona | mmmm |
| 21:27.04 | Cair | lol |
| 21:27.41 | krka | equipcompare is still the best addon ever |
| 21:27.45 | Cair | agreed |
| 21:27.57 | Beladona | anything change in the latest version? |
| 21:28.01 | Beladona | didn't download it |
| 21:28.19 | Beladona | didn't see anything in his notes |
| 21:28.23 | krka | the simplified chinese version rules! |
| 21:28.28 | Iriel | I dunno.. I haven't grabbed it yet. |
| 21:28.39 | Cair | localization fix for korean |
| 21:28.43 | Cair | minor |
| 21:29.11 | Beladona | bah |
| 21:29.16 | Beladona | good thing I am not Korean then |
| 21:29.38 | krka | no it's a bad thing, because if you had been a korean you'd have this to look forward to! |
| 21:29.49 | Beladona | lol |
| 21:30.08 | Beladona | I have to go to a Christmas party tonight |
| 21:30.16 | Beladona | and I am in a somewhat anti-party mood |
| 21:30.24 | Cair | Bela, you home yet? |
| 21:30.28 | Beladona | yes |
| 21:30.35 | Cair | go snag an hour or two of sleep |
| 21:30.47 | Beladona | I didn't go in last night |
| 21:30.54 | Beladona | I slept through the alarm |
| 21:30.57 | Beladona | =P |
| 21:31.11 | Cair | uh huh |
| 21:31.18 | Cair | go snag an hour or two of sleep |
| 21:31.25 | Cair | don't make me pull a Dolby on you |
| 21:31.32 | Beladona | I was serious |
| 21:31.37 | Beladona | I got up at 7 |
| 21:31.59 | Beladona | although.... |
| 21:32.05 | Cair | mmhmm |
| 21:32.11 | Beladona | I would be willing to go snag sleep if I could get out of this party |
| 21:32.16 | Cair | lol |
| 21:32.18 | Beladona | and then stay up all night and play |
| 21:32.22 | Beladona | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:32.39 | Cair | snagging sleep will, otoh, make you more inclined to be in a party mood |
| 21:32.57 | Beladona | I am never in a party mood |
| 21:33.10 | Beladona | I would be a hermit if it paid well |
| 21:33.12 | Cair | and I want you to come to BlizzCon *why*? |
| 21:33.22 | Beladona | thats different |
| 21:33.27 | Beladona | that would be fun |
| 21:33.29 | Cair | stay home, only want party people |
| 21:33.32 | Cair | :p |
| 21:33.53 | temfood | cladhaire: http://wow.pastebin.com/462840 |
| 21:33.53 | Cair | I mean hell, if I can get *Dolby* partying ... |
| 21:34.03 | Cair | and Iriel knows how to party, too |
| 21:34.13 | Beladona | ok I lied, I like to party |
| 21:34.22 | Beladona | but partys around here tend to be... |
| 21:34.26 | Beladona | dead |
| 21:34.26 | Cair | alright then ... |
| 21:34.44 | Beladona | eat, listen to someone talk till you fall asleep, go home |
| 21:34.48 | Beladona | yeah |
| 21:34.54 | Cair | that isn't a party |
| 21:35.06 | Beladona | thats what they are calling it |
| 21:35.12 | kergoth | mm, party |
| 21:35.25 | Beladona | I call it voluntary torture |
| 21:35.31 | Cair | lol Bela |
| 21:35.51 | kergoth | theres nothing better than the partying at conferences, imho |
| 21:36.00 | Beladona | and get this |
| 21:36.01 | Cair | seriously though, if we get a bunch of us at BlizzCon next year .... |
| 21:36.06 | Beladona | food and drinks are provided right? |
| 21:36.07 | kergoth | the ottawa linux symposium is crazy. a ton of linux geeks drinking heavily ,with occasional pauses for naps during presentations |
| 21:36.10 | Beladona | but the booz is cash |
| 21:36.12 | Cair | uh huh ... |
| 21:36.14 | Beladona | grrrr |
| 21:36.23 | Cair | *nod* |
| 21:36.25 | krka | at Beladona's you think the party is dead , but in soviet russia the party thinks YOU are dead! |
| 21:36.35 | Beladona | LOL |
| 21:36.50 | Cair | kergoth: next time you come up to the Linux symposium, you'd DAMN WELL better get in touch with me! |
| 21:37.11 | kergoth | oh yeah, you're in canada arent you |
| 21:37.13 | kergoth | will do |
| 21:37.22 | kergoth | i need a job first :( |
| 21:37.23 | Beladona | I need some help from someone that knows interfaces really well. Not WOW interfaces |
| 21:37.30 | Cair | I'm in Ottawa, to be more specific :p |
| 21:37.31 | Beladona | just interfafces in general |
| 21:37.32 | Iriel | what kind of interfaces then? |
| 21:37.37 | Iriel | User Interfaces? |
| 21:37.38 | Beladona | from a looks / usability standpoint |
| 21:37.40 | Iriel | Code Interfaces? |
| 21:37.43 | Iriel | Network interfaces? |
| 21:37.45 | Iriel | Ah, UI's.. |
| 21:37.45 | Beladona | HAHA |
| 21:37.52 | Tain | I've been to Ottawa! |
| 21:37.54 | Beladona | sorry shoudla been more clear |
| 21:37.55 | kergoth | oh cool :) |
| 21:37.59 | kergoth | i love ottawa, its nice |
| 21:38.00 | temfood | Tip: an item with its name in grey is of poor quality and in most cases can be safely sold to a vendor. |
| 21:38.22 | Cair | It is a nice city |
| 21:38.23 | Iriel | I may be able to help, a bit, though i'm more familiar with web UI's than app UI's. |
| 21:38.32 | krka | you mean the item won't get angry and kill me if I sell it to a vendor? |
| 21:38.34 | Cair | just damn I wish I could enjoy winter |
| 21:38.36 | Beladona | I am trying to get ideas on possible changes to make to the wow ui, and I am trying to find examples of other interfaces (non-wow) that just work really well |
| 21:38.50 | krka | Iriel, don't the same basic usability rules apply? |
| 21:38.50 | Beladona | doesn't have to be game related necessarily |
| 21:38.51 | Iriel | temfood : Have you gotten to any of the 'joke' tips yet? |
| 21:39.05 | temfood | a few |
| 21:39.08 | Iriel | krka: Mostly, but there are some constraints in terms of what can be done on the web |
| 21:39.14 | temfood | Tip: There is no cow level. |
| 21:39.35 | Iriel | I got one about a paladin, priest, and some other person walking into a bar |
| 21:39.39 | Beladona | is that actually a tip Tem? |
| 21:39.42 | Beladona | in wow |
| 21:39.47 | krka | web apps are getting more and more like regular apps though |
| 21:39.50 | temfood | yeah |
| 21:39.53 | Iriel | krka : true |
| 21:39.54 | temfood | that's really a tip |
| 21:39.59 | Beladona | krka: AJAX shows promise |
| 21:40.00 | Tain | A priest, a rapist, and a child molester walk into a bar. |
| 21:40.03 | Tain | And that's just the first guy. |
| 21:40.07 | Iriel | ajav isn't "new" though |
| 21:40.08 | Cair | ... |
| 21:40.11 | Beladona | I know |
| 21:40.15 | Iriel | ajax, that is. |
| 21:40.26 | Beladona | but more and more sites are starting to use it |
| 21:40.39 | Iriel | Its just the flavor du jour.. I do hope that as we move forwards th ebrowsers become a bit more 'application friendly |
| 21:40.46 | Iriel | it tends to break navigation idioms, etc |
| 21:41.18 | Iriel | Anyway, trying to think of interfaces I really like.. hmm... |
| 21:41.43 | krka | the KISS rule applies mostly everywhere though, that's what I hold on to |
| 21:41.53 | kergoth | ~fear of complexity |
| 21:41.55 | purl | FEAR OF COMPLEXITY: That which causes you to implement as little as possible, as simplicity is easier to fix. As well, that which prevents feature creep due to the environmental damage it causes. Hence, the fourth great virtue of a programmer. |
| 21:41.55 | temfood | Iriel: the spellstopcasting thing still works on dec 13 test |
| 21:42.28 | krka | yay! agreeance |
| 21:42.39 | krka | (because agreement just sounds silly!) |
| 21:42.41 | Iriel | temfood : Figures, I think the poster was just crazy, in relation to what he was testing. |
| 21:42.46 | Beladona | when designing interfaces, I tend to go for simplest approach while still displaying everything you need quickly / easily |
| 21:43.04 | Beladona | compact is a plus |
| 21:43.31 | Beladona | but I am one of those that prefers more open space and less ui clutter |
| 21:44.20 | digix | is there a slash command to leave a party, change loot type, etc.? (basically to eliminate the need for the traditional self frame) |
| 21:44.33 | temfood | no |
| 21:44.39 | temfood | but they could be made fairly easily |
| 21:44.43 | Beladona | make one! |
| 21:44.52 | krka | even I could make one! |
| 21:44.59 | temfood | but as we all know, "slash commands are amaturish" >< |
| 21:45.17 | digix | not for a minimalist, clean UI they arent |
| 21:45.20 | digix | :) |
| 21:45.30 | temfood | you missed the reference |
| 21:45.38 | digix | guess so... |
| 21:45.38 | temfood | ~emulate saien |
| 21:45.39 | purl | This is a stunningly stupid question to direct at me. |
| 21:45.39 | Depherios | ... I like slash commands D: |
| 21:45.49 | temfood | ~emulate saien |
| 21:45.50 | purl | I could have helped you, but I won't. |
| 21:46.00 | temfood | this is going to take forever... I can tell |
| 21:46.02 | temfood | ~emulate saien |
| 21:46.03 | purl | This is a stunningly stupid question to direct at me. |
| 21:46.04 | digix | lol |
| 21:46.07 | krka | good thing I am ignoring purl |
| 21:46.14 | temfood | ~emulate saien |
| 21:46.16 | purl | You are of course, wrong, and I invite you to prove it to yourself. |
| 21:46.20 | krka | maybe I should auto-ignore people who start sentences with " |
| 21:46.25 | krka | I mean ~ |
| 21:46.44 | Depherios | lol, you wouldn't hear anybody talk in here XD |
| 21:46.47 | temfood | screw it,"slash commands are amaturish" is a direct quote from saien |
| 21:46.53 | digix | nice |
| 21:47.08 | norganna | so, if kissing is the forth great virtue of a programmer, i hesitate to ask what the first 3 are... |
| 21:47.14 | digix | im guessing hes a heavy windows user.... |
| 21:47.21 | temfood | ~laziness |
| 21:47.22 | purl | LAZINESS: The quality that makes you go to great effort to reduce overall energy expenditure. It makes you write labor-saving programs that other people will find useful, and document what you wrote so you don't have to answer so many questions about it. Hence, the first great virtue of a programmer. |
| 21:47.26 | Beladona | making up words that don't actually exist is amauterish... 0.o |
| 21:47.30 | temfood | ~hubris |
| 21:47.32 | purl | HUBRIS: Excessive pride, the sort of thing Zeus zaps you for. Also the quality that makes you write (and maintain) programs that other people won't want to say bad things about. Hence, the third great virtue of a programmer. |
| 21:47.44 | temfood | ~fear of complexity |
| 21:47.45 | purl | FEAR OF COMPLEXITY: That which causes you to implement as little as possible, as simplicity is easier to fix. As well, that which prevents feature creep due to the environmental damage it causes. Hence, the fourth great virtue of a programmer. |
| 21:47.58 | Tain | Yay for hubris |
| 21:47.58 | temfood | ~impatience |
| 21:48.00 | purl | IMPATIENCE: The anger you feel when the computer is being lazy. This makes you write programs that don't just react to your needs, but actually anticipate them. Or at least that pretend to. Hence, the second great virtue of a programmer. |
| 21:48.24 | temfood | I can never remember them in the right order |
| 21:48.25 | norganna | hmmm - i'm really close on this one |
| 21:48.49 | Depherios | are there any good addons for configure chat crap (i.e. colors, and what's shown) or am I stuck with blizzard's pulldowns? |
| 21:49.02 | norganna | i think i'm missing #2 and #4 tho |
| 21:49.34 | temfood | you might be stuck with those nasty pulldowns |
| 21:49.39 | Beladona | lol |
| 21:49.49 | Tain | Someone did the chat color thing to change everyone's name to different colors a while back. |
| 21:49.56 | norganna | you *can* write whatever you want |
| 21:50.00 | Depherios | oi... I just screwed up my settings and had to delete my chat settings |
| 21:50.05 | Tain | You can do it! |
| 21:50.07 | norganna | whether you *want* to is another matter |
| 21:50.11 | Depherios | lol |
| 21:50.18 | Beladona | someone should make an addon that emulates a console, and hides all other windows, forcing the player to get information via command line... |
| 21:50.20 | Depherios | easier to use the pulldowns than to make an addon so I don't ahve to use them XD |
| 21:50.21 | Beladona | ok that was a joke |
| 21:50.28 | norganna | most people just say "stuff it, i'll use the blizzard ones" |
| 21:50.31 | Depherios | welcome to my interface XD |
| 21:51.04 | Depherios | titan, health bars, and minimap (and buffs/debuffs for the bars) |
| 21:51.06 | Tain | Hmmm if only there were an online game like WoW, but only operated in a text console where you had to type all commands and had text descriptions of all events... |
| 21:51.11 | norganna | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:51.16 | Depherios | lol |
| 21:51.24 | Beladona | hehe |
| 21:51.35 | Cair | Tain: aka MUDs? |
| 21:51.41 | Cair | :p |
| 21:51.45 | norganna | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:51.45 | Beladona | wow> execute attackscript x, y |
| 21:51.54 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:52.00 | Tain | MUD, MUSH, MOO .. :) |
| 21:52.04 | norganna | even better - BASIC |
| 21:52.05 | Depherios | lol |
| 21:52.10 | Beladona | oh god |
| 21:52.11 | Tain | A hell of a lot easier to script too. |
| 21:52.12 | norganna | 10 move 10,2 |
| 21:52.19 | Beladona | 12 goto 3 |
| 21:52.28 | Tain | load "auctioneer",8,1 |
| 21:52.28 | Depherios | lol |
| 21:52.31 | Iriel | basic's not very good at interactive use though |
| 21:52.35 | Depherios | but really though... |
| 21:52.37 | Iriel | how about something forth based? |
| 21:52.41 | Iriel | 10 2 move |
| 21:52.43 | Depherios | how soon would we make UIs for it XD |
| 21:52.44 | Beladona | haha |
| 21:52.51 | Iriel | "Kobold" targetbyname |
| 21:52.54 | Iriel | attack |
| 21:52.57 | Beladona | you know |
| 21:53.31 | Beladona | making this addon would definitely allow us to find out who are programmers / linux style users, and who isn't. Cause no one would download it |
| 21:53.39 | Iriel | "Health Potion" "Health Potion" "Mana Potion" use use use |
| 21:53.41 | Cair | ;) |
| 21:54.07 | Cair | I never could get my damn tank to shoot my damn plane ... stupid basic |
| 21:54.10 | Beladona | imagine the speed increase in game play though |
| 21:54.12 | Beladona | well |
| 21:54.17 | Iriel | (Though that doesn't work, of course). |
| 21:54.19 | Depherios | lol |
| 21:54.21 | Cair | it *always* missed! |
| 21:54.21 | Beladona | except that everything takes time for you to do because you type it in |
| 21:54.35 | Depherios | bah |
| 21:54.40 | Depherios | I'd have it all macroed out in no time |
| 21:54.44 | Depherios | hotkeyed |
| 21:54.54 | Beladona | what would you press? |
| 21:55.04 | Depherios | http://www.ergodex.com |
| 21:55.12 | Beladona | lol |
| 21:55.19 | Iriel | Yay for the DX1 |
| 21:55.30 | Depherios | It's my friend :F |
| 21:55.38 | Iriel | Likewise |
| 21:55.44 | Iriel | (Though not in WoW) |
| 21:55.49 | Depherios | woo! |
| 21:56.52 | Beladona | anyone loaded up ddo yet? |
| 21:57.00 | Beladona | I might go see how they did their ui |
| 21:57.03 | Cair | I never got my acceptance |
| 21:57.13 | Beladona | I did, but I didn't log in yet |
| 21:57.29 | Cair | don't know if I just missed the email or what |
| 21:57.39 | Beladona | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:58.26 | temfood | oh god... I'm such a noob |
| 21:58.37 | temfood | I just jumped into ungoro crater |
| 21:58.45 | Beladona | weeeee |
| 21:58.52 | temfood | I tried to hit iceblock as I usually do before I land |
| 21:59.08 | temfood | and then I rmembered... I'm playing with a fire spec |
| 21:59.12 | temfood | I don't have icelbock |
| 22:00.28 | Beladona | so you go splat? |
| 22:00.44 | temfood | natrually |
| 22:00.54 | temfood | and my corpse is now in a place where you can't get |
| 22:01.12 | temfood | so I'm stuck with rez sickness for 10 minutes |
| 22:01.26 | Tain | I jumped off somewhere as a mage to see what was down there figuring I have my feather fall spell (or whatever it is). |
| 22:01.43 | Tain | So I slowly drifted down into a patch of elite giants. |
| 22:02.07 | Tain | I didn't know they were there. |
| 22:02.15 | Fanook|Exam | did they enjoy their game of Whack-A-Tain? |
| 22:02.19 | Tain | They did. |
| 22:02.25 | Tain | I was not as much a fan. |
| 22:02.37 | ForgottenLords | to get MyMod_OnUpdate() to fire every minutes what do you reccommend I do? |
| 22:02.55 | ForgottenLords | every 5 minutes |
| 22:03.06 | krka | set your framerate to 0.0002 FPS |
| 22:03.09 | krka | or something |
| 22:03.24 | Depherios | lol |
| 22:03.31 | ForgottenLords | lol |
| 22:03.55 | krka | don't see any other way to do it |
| 22:04.08 | ForgottenLords | k |
| 22:04.16 | temfood | on tain, that's in Winterspring |
| 22:04.23 | Iriel | ForgottenLords : You either use a library like Chronor |
| 22:04.29 | Fanook|Exam | put a time check in the OnUpdate? if currTime - lastTime < 5min exit, else update lastTime and do stuff |
| 22:04.33 | Iriel | ForgottenLords : Or you have an OnUpdate handler, with a countdown handler |
| 22:04.40 | Iriel | timeUntilUpdate = 5 * 60; |
| 22:04.44 | Iriel | then in your OnUpdate you do |
| 22:04.51 | Iriel | timeUntilUpdate = timeUntilUpdate - arg1; |
| 22:04.57 | krka | that will still fire more often than every 5 minutes on most machines :p |
| 22:04.58 | Iriel | if (timeUntilUpdate > 0) then return ; end |
| 22:05.05 | Iriel | timeUntilUpdate = 5 * 60; |
| 22:05.06 | temfood | Those giants are immune to frost spells so the only way I could solo them on my mage was with blast wave kiting |
| 22:05.26 | Iriel | (Typo earlier, I meant Chronos) |
| 22:05.27 | ForgottenLords | Ok, I was hoping to avoid that method |
| 22:05.34 | Iriel | Why? It's very fast |
| 22:05.35 | ForgottenLords | thanks tho |
| 22:05.44 | krka | or timeUntilUpdate = timeUntilUpdate + 5* 60 |
| 22:05.46 | Iriel | Every (EVERY) button on display on the screen does that |
| 22:05.58 | krka | that'll get rid of slight deviations |
| 22:06.06 | Tain | Use Timex! |
| 22:09.42 | norganna | That's why they make faster processors every year (so you can abuse them with more and more useless things to do with their cpu cycles) |
| 22:10.10 | Beladona | ok forget that |
| 22:10.16 | Beladona | ddo interface is awful |
| 22:10.37 | norganna | no good? |
| 22:10.51 | Cair | What I'm hearing, the game sucks too |
| 22:10.52 | Beladona | reminds me a lot of EQ2's default interface |
| 22:11.24 | Beladona | I didn't play long enough to find out |
| 22:11.39 | Beladona | the characters are cool looking, but they move like paper dolls |
| 22:12.14 | Tain | Dance Dance Origami? |
| 22:12.21 | Beladona | lol |
| 22:12.47 | Cair | D&D Online |
| 22:12.49 | Cair | :p |
| 22:13.20 | Tain | Oh yeah I think I got an email about that too |
| 22:13.44 | Beladona | I am a fan of D&D but they have yet to make a pc game based on it that has any real enjoyment |
| 22:13.50 | Tain | I sign up for everything, I can't help myself. Even if I never play. |
| 22:13.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Trilian3 (n=trilian@dyndsl-085-016-007-189.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 22:14.12 | Tain | Barbie 3d Dreamhouse online beta? Here's my email! |
| 22:15.09 | norganna | that's a scary thought |
| 22:15.45 | Beladona | isn't that the next sims expansion? |
| 22:15.48 | norganna | i hope "they" weren't listening |
| 22:16.41 | Tem | I hate the sims |
| 22:16.47 | Tem | I don't get it |
| 22:16.54 | Tem | seems like such a lame game |
| 22:17.08 | norganna | remember when you were little |
| 22:17.21 | norganna | and the girls would come over and want to "play house" |
| 22:17.27 | norganna | that's the sims |
| 22:18.03 | Iriel | Did you find one? |
| 22:18.12 | Cair | Michelle (Cair's daughter): Well, I don't know about other people, but I like it because you can find new and interesting ways to kill off your sims |
| 22:18.31 | Iriel | I've heard that rationale for playing given before. |
| 22:18.43 | Iriel | If not killing them, making them profoundly uncomfortable |
| 22:19.17 | norganna | if i remember, "playing house" got similarly sadistic from time to time |
| 22:19.47 | Beladona | my sisters played it all the time |
| 22:19.52 | Beladona | with their barbies |
| 22:19.52 | Tem | haha I never thought of that |
| 22:20.03 | Beladona | and I would come in with my gijoes and blow up their house |
| 22:20.25 | norganna | lol |
| 22:21.04 | krka | haha michelle |
| 22:21.38 | Tem | Cair: how is your daughter home right now? |
| 22:22.45 | Cair | because it's 5:20 pm? |
| 22:22.53 | kremonte | lol |
| 22:22.58 | Tem | oh whoops |
| 22:23.03 | Tem | I was going off the test server time |
| 22:23.04 | kremonte | btw Iriel, yes, was $5USD too |
| 22:23.04 | Cair | ;) |
| 22:23.04 | Beladona | yeah, what are you, a school nazi? |
| 22:23.10 | Tem | which says 11:22 |
| 22:23.17 | kremonte | wtf o_O |
| 22:23.20 | kremonte | hawaii time? |
| 22:23.26 | Tem | I have no idea |
| 22:23.34 | Tem | 11:22 PM |
| 22:23.39 | Tem | GMT it looks like |
| 22:23.40 | kremonte | middle of EU |
| 22:23.45 | norganna | heheh - maybe they need to run ntpupdate on that server |
| 22:23.50 | kremonte | those damn europeans |
| 22:24.05 | norganna | oh - they're windows machines, aren't they |
| 22:24.15 | Iriel | They probably DO run ntpdate on that server |
| 22:24.19 | Iriel | It's just not in your TIMEZONE |
| 22:24.32 | Iriel | it's *:24:30 now |
| 22:24.56 | Iriel | the realm servers? They're almost certainly unix (linux) based on the job postings on blizzard.com |
| 22:25.10 | Tem | OK now that's just silly switching my trinkets (switch top and bottom slots) causes a cooldown for both trinkets like I just equipped them |
| 22:25.31 | Beladona | because technically you just did |
| 22:25.36 | Beladona | =\ |
| 22:25.46 | Tem | seems like they could have been a little smarter about that |
| 22:25.55 | Beladona | why? |
| 22:26.04 | Iriel | Yeah, why? |
| 22:26.11 | Beladona | if you take something out of your pocket and put it in the other, was it in your pocket the whole time? |
| 22:26.57 | Tain | Well, they don't ever really specify where you wear trinkets, do they? |
| 22:27.19 | norganna | yeah, but how often do you take something out of your left pocket and put it in your righ, just to find that the contents of your right pocket have magically appeared in your left |
| 22:27.25 | Iriel | But even so, you literally moved both trinkets |
| 22:27.28 | Iriel | so both cool down |
| 22:27.40 | Iriel | If it bothers you, write a UI addon to reverse the slots when you do that |
| 22:27.42 | krka | don't disturb the trinkets! |
| 22:27.54 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:27.58 | Beladona | lol |
| 22:28.01 | cladhaire | *cheer* |
| 22:28.01 | Iriel | Getting close! |
| 22:28.07 | krka | what are you building? |
| 22:28.11 | Tem | Anyway, not a big issue |
| 22:28.20 | Tem | just slightly annoying when you don't know that in advance |
| 22:28.23 | Beladona | in other words, damnit, I don't like switching it from one pocket to the other, so I am just gonna move the pockets! |
| 22:28.28 | Beladona | HAHA |
| 22:28.31 | Tain | Now you know. |
| 22:28.35 | Tain | And knowing is half the battle. |
| 22:29.06 | norganna | and the other half? |
| 22:29.17 | Beladona | lol norganna |
| 22:29.22 | Iriel | krka: Rebuilding a raid array at home |
| 22:29.31 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:29.33 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:29.35 | Iriel | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:29.35 | Tem | and I was only switching the slots because a equipment addon that annoys the piss out of me (and will remain anonymous) was taking my ToEP off to put my carrot |
| 22:29.50 | Beladona | doh |
| 22:29.59 | Iriel | Why not fix the addon? |
| 22:30.09 | Tem | because I've already replaced it |
| 22:30.23 | Tem | I just did it after I copied all my addon settings to the test realm |
| 22:30.56 | norganna | time to go to work again - *sigh |
| 22:31.19 | Beladona | <Homeland Security> thats funny |
| 22:32.35 | Tem | holy cow! I just crit for 2500 with pyroblast |
| 22:33.00 | Tem | followed by 2 515 ignite ticks |
| 22:33.09 | cladhaire | nice |
| 22:33.09 | Tem | that's 3500 damage! |
| 22:35.07 | Beladona | im off, seeya all in a couple hours |
| 22:35.27 | SP|Sorren | you use teop? |
| 22:35.43 | krka | i see |
| 22:37.19 | Tem | anyone have a link to that ui community frapper map? |
| 22:37.30 | Cair | wowi, chitchat forum |
| 22:37.37 | Tem | yea that was a ToEP AP crit |
| 22:38.07 | Cair | Tem: http://www.frappr.com/wowuicommunity |
| 22:38.17 | Tem | thanks Cair |
| 22:38.19 | Cair | np |
| 22:46.15 | Tain | frappr! |
| 22:49.20 | Tem | Tip: You can send mail to other players or even to your other characters from any mailbox in game. |
| 22:50.15 | Parak | whoa, seriously? |
| 22:50.16 | Tain | Now if I could send mail to characters on another server... |
| 22:50.38 | Depherios | my favorite was the one that answered a question I had when I first started to PvP |
| 22:50.47 | Depherios | how do you cancel a spellcast if you're rooted |
| 22:51.05 | Depherios | you can move OR HIT ESCAPE to cancel a spellcast O_o YAY |
| 22:51.10 | Depherios | too bad I figured it out already D: |
| 22:52.33 | Tain | I would like it if they'd tell us when our bonuses are being deposited. |
| 22:54.06 | Tem | I really dislike the OnDragStart event |
| 22:54.08 | Tem | it takes too long |
| 22:54.21 | Iriel | too long? |
| 22:54.36 | Tem | you have to drag too long before it decides that you are dragging |
| 22:54.38 | Iriel | It has to decide you're dragging |
| 22:54.44 | Iriel | Well, use OnClick as well |
| 22:55.27 | Tem | (that was just me complaining for the sake of it not me actually having an issue with something I'm writing) |
| 22:56.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine (n=Guilloti@ns.motek-services.com) |
| 22:58.03 | Tem | one of these days I'm going to sit down and write some fake events for drag start/stop click and double click using OnMouseDown/Up |
| 22:58.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kremonte (n=help@ool-18bba4ea.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 22:59.40 | krka | agreed, drag-events suck |
| 23:00.03 | Cair | one could even say that they are a drag? |
| 23:00.35 | Tain | Depends if it's a real female frame or just dressed like one. |
| 23:00.36 | Tem | Cair: wow, that was even below Tain's level |
| 23:00.53 | Tem | nevermind, I guess it wasn't below him... |
| 23:00.56 | Tain | :D |
| 23:01.11 | krka | cair, you need to stop being so unserious! |
| 23:01.13 | Tain | Just when you think you have the bar, I lower it. |
| 23:01.21 | Cair | I know, I'm sorry |
| 23:01.26 | Guillotine | I was thinking. would it be worth it to make an addon that hooks all the changed events from the new patch to make them work with the old parameters. Just for ppl to use for the 2 days after hte patch until addon authors update their addons |
| 23:01.30 | Tain | Now I'm going to go home. |
| 23:02.03 | Tem | I dunno |
| 23:02.04 | norganna|work | tain - love your pc-glow :) |
| 23:08.06 | Iriel | Guillotine : Wouldn't that break everything that IS updated for 1.9 ? |
| 23:09.22 | Natasem | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?ForumName=wow-realm-gilneas&ThreadID=97315 |
| 23:10.38 | Guillotine | Iriel: not necesarily. I can check (on some functions at least) what argument order is being given and only change it if its the old value |
| 23:11.17 | Guillotine | haha natasem |
| 23:11.52 | Natasem | like that? |
| 23:11.54 | Cair | any of the Cosmos team currently paying attention in here? |
| 23:12.56 | kremonte | Natasem |
| 23:13.00 | kremonte | i love you |
| 23:13.14 | kremonte | (the santa post |
| 23:13.47 | Guillotine | natasem: you are the greatest |
| 23:13.48 | norganna|work | Natasem: you're forgetting... santa's magic |
| 23:13.54 | Guillotine | that is the most awesome post ever |
| 23:14.38 | Guillotine | but natasem, couldn't that be considered a religious issue and you get suspended for posting it? |
| 23:15.06 | Natasem | lol |
| 23:15.07 | kremonte | Guillotine dont even >,M |
| 23:15.08 | norganna|work | santa has nothing to do with religion |
| 23:15.09 | kremonte | >.<* |
| 23:15.11 | kremonte | ugh |
| 23:15.23 | kremonte | i have a laptop in my lap as i juggle 2 hard drives |
| 23:15.46 | Guillotine | I know. but I've seen blizz lock posts b/c it says something about a religious figure (seen a couple with santa) in the title |
| 23:15.59 | Natasem | kremon you have 3 hands? jugle 2 HD and type at same time ? |
| 23:16.04 | Guillotine | change it from "santa" to "father winter" so you can say you're talking about WoW |
| 23:16.36 | kergoth | ~praise Natasem |
| 23:16.38 | purl | All hail Natasem! |
| 23:16.43 | Natasem | lol |
| 23:16.43 | kremonte | i am balancing one HDD on a bout 1 inch of space, holding the other with the same hand, with laptop in lap, while typign on my desktop |
| 23:17.08 | Natasem | you are the all mighty |
| 23:17.22 | kremonte | Natasem = the all mighty |
| 23:17.36 | kremonte | i erupted cola out of my nose while reading that post |
| 23:18.05 | kremonte | " His Christmas magic prevents him from death. He's like a flying Pally" |
| 23:18.40 | norganna|work | everyone know that he can slow down time |
| 23:18.47 | norganna|work | pish |
| 23:19.05 | norganna|work | anyhow - i gotta go now... |
| 23:19.20 | *** part/#wowi-lounge norganna|work (n=chatzill@CPE-139-168-171-51.qld.bigpond.net.au) |
| 23:19.51 | Natasem | lol nice sig there Guill |
| 23:22.01 | Natasem | i think i am going to put this as my sig purl{#WoWI-lounge} All hail Natasem! |
| 23:23.13 | Tem | "A flying pally" |
| 23:24.57 | Natasem | ok back to building a new hard drive... i taking the platters off one HDD and putting them in a new one cuz the old ones' heads were fried |
| 23:25.16 | Depherios | have fun with that |
| 23:25.47 | kremonte | hm, would "HD" be a "HD" (a hard drive) or an "HD" (an eytch dee) |
| 23:28.27 | Guillotine | hey, isn't that syde guy (the one who posted the thing about santa being a pally) the one that posted the topic about the spoofer? |
| 23:28.38 | Guillotine | or was that a different cide? |
| 23:28.45 | Guillotine | syde* |
| 23:29.36 | kremonte | no |
| 23:29.38 | kremonte | it was Syd i think |
| 23:29.44 | kremonte | and the guy was an UD warlock =x |
| 23:36.02 | Guillotine | ahh. ok |
| 23:38.40 | pagefault | yay another week another rank |
| 23:39.44 | SP|Sorren | heading for 14? |
| 23:39.51 | pagefault | trying to |
| 23:39.57 | pagefault | half way there now :) |
| 23:40.30 | kremonte | 7 isnt halfway =X |
| 23:40.35 | kremonte | 11 or 12 is, lol |
| 23:40.54 | pagefault | well rank wise it's half way |
| 23:41.05 | kremonte | wooot |
| 23:41.05 | Guillotine | I just got 7 too... |
| 23:41.06 | kremonte | rank 3! |
| 23:41.09 | Guillotine | I'm only going for 8 though |
| 23:41.15 | Guillotine | for the 4 item set bonus |
| 23:41.16 | pagefault | the blood guard armor is pretty swank |
| 23:41.20 | kremonte | rank 3 owns |
| 23:41.27 | kremonte | deranked 2 weeks in a row 8) |
| 23:41.31 | pagefault | I have like +100dmg now |
| 23:44.05 | pagefault | yeah if I get the rank 8 robe then I am pretty much happy |
| 23:45.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge AnduinLothar (n=KarlKFI@adsl-67-125-157-11.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 23:46.06 | Cair | there's a Cosmos team member |
| 23:46.28 | Cair | Karl, wanna see if you can help this guy, please? http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2639 |
| 23:47.18 | Natasem | Ya i was talking about a Hard Drive... and what is this guy talking about a WoW UI desktop? |
| 23:47.44 | Natasem | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=279663 |
| 23:48.48 | AnduinLothar | mmm interesting... wonder why IEF didn't load |
| 23:49.01 | Cair | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/downloads/other-downloads.html |
| 23:49.06 | Cair | Natasem |
| 23:49.21 | Legorol | Cair, i have a question for you |
| 23:49.38 | Legorol | i have uploaded the LOD version of EquipCompare onto WowI as a patch to EquipCompare |
| 23:49.43 | Cair | and I may or may not have an answer for you Legorol, depending on what the question is |
| 23:49.50 | Cair | okay, and? |
| 23:49.53 | Legorol | i realise now that i should've uploaded it as an additional AddOn to it |
| 23:49.57 | Legorol | it's not really a patch |
| 23:50.08 | Legorol | any way to change it from being a patch to being an AddOn belonging to EquipCompare? |
| 23:50.16 | Cair | yup |
| 23:50.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine_ (n=Guilloti@ns.motek-services.com) |
| 23:51.33 | Legorol | so how do i do it? |
| 23:51.51 | Cair | you just did ;) |
| 23:51.58 | Cair | you tell me, and I go in and do it for you |
| 23:52.14 | Cair | it's already done |
| 23:52.22 | Cair | but, in future, you can go in and edit |
| 23:52.42 | Cair | and just change it from being a patch to being a plug-in |
| 23:53.07 | Cair | however, by having me do it through admin functions, it doesn't show as being updated, whereas if you had changed it, it would |
| 23:53.30 | Cair | AnduinLothar: thank you, appreciate you looking into that thread for m |
| 23:53.32 | Cair | me* |
| 23:54.58 | AnduinLothar | no idea why he gets that error tho. I would say disable AllInOneInventory and see if the rest of Cosmos works. Sarf needs to look at AIOI |
| 23:55.29 | Cair | toss a response on the thread if you'd be so kind, please? |
| 23:57.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge wowguru-1560 (i=WoWGuruJ@acs-72-23-110-180.zoominternet.net) |
| 23:58.02 | Legorol | Cair, does an AddOn show as "updated" if i just change the description text slightly? |
| 23:58.18 | Cair | unfortunately, yup |
| 23:59.19 | Legorol | ok |
| 23:59.41 | Cair | I may be able to edit via admin and not have it show as updated |
| 23:59.54 | Cair | can't recall |
