| 00:00.26 | Tem | oh? |
| 00:00.30 | JoshBorke | farook: hello =) |
| 00:00.58 | Tem | oh man |
| 00:01.00 | Tem | I'm retarded |
| 00:01.06 | Tem | I hid the alpha layer |
| 00:02.37 | Tem | is Gryphen a commercial for 1991? |
| 00:05.04 | JoshBorke | i was 7 then |
| 00:06.08 | Tem | I just got this flashback to watching Teenage mutant ninja turtles |
| 00:06.15 | Tem | wow... |
| 00:06.21 | Tem | time for me to get home |
| 00:06.33 | Fanook | anyone know which part of Norganna's suite of addons handles the stack sizes in the tooltips? |
| 00:06.33 | Cairenn | later tem |
| 00:06.48 | Tem | Thanks for helping me spot my idiocy Iriel |
| 00:07.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=tardmrr@204.90.50.252) |
| 00:07.44 | Tem | if KaeltenAway returns, please tell him I need to talk with him ASAP |
| 00:20.13 | dan5981 | do any of you know about texture layering; as in, how to control which textures appear above others when they overlap? |
| 00:21.38 | cladhaire | is there any way to tell if an element is MovingOrSizing? |
| 00:21.41 | cladhaire | other than manually, |
| 00:21.44 | cladhaire | which PCUF doesn't do. |
| 00:21.55 | Mikk1 | dan5981: depends on which Layer they live in |
| 00:22.04 | Mikk1 | if they're in the same layer i can't help you |
| 00:23.03 | dan5981 | Mikk1: yeah, in the same layer. I'm going to try and find out if it's last-displayed = on-top |
| 00:24.44 | dan5981 | cladhaire: I don't see an IsMovingOrSizing listed on wowwiki, so you probably need to do it yourself with a flag |
| 00:25.40 | Cide- | hmm |
| 00:25.56 | JoshBorke | ( cladhaire ): moving things with StartMoving is a PITA |
| 00:26.01 | JoshBorke | just so you know =D |
| 00:26.34 | Cide- | is there any way to easily access children in an object, without using getglobal and a name? the object I'm using doesn't have a name, so I'm guessing that way wouldn't work |
| 00:26.59 | Mikk1 | GetChildren() |
| 00:27.17 | Mikk1 | If we're talking frames in frames here |
| 00:27.56 | Cide- | textures |
| 00:28.13 | Cide- | that's still a rather clumsy way |
| 00:28.29 | Cide- | I want to store the objects as indices in the frame table, for easy access |
| 00:28.46 | Cide- | I guess I could give it a name, but bleh |
| 00:29.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=tardmrr@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 00:31.50 | Iriel | GetRegions |
| 00:32.14 | Iriel | dan5981 : It's all about layers, within a layer the order is undefinited. |
| 00:32.51 | Iriel | dan5981 : Undefined, even, and that's because they're all submitted to the graphics drivers simultaneously and it decides the order (logically, at any rate) |
| 00:33.40 | dan5981 | so there's no predictable order? is it different each time? |
| 00:33.44 | Cide- | Iriel: does it return them in the order they are defined? |
| 00:37.01 | Tem | it seems to be consistent across sessions |
| 00:37.06 | Tem | but different on each client |
| 00:37.10 | Tem | in my experience anyway |
| 00:37.39 | Josh|Gone | ( cladhaire ): quick fix for PCUF would be thus: hook OnMouseUp just like you do with OnClick and execute a Frame:StopMovingOrSizing() rather than just the dummy func. yea, it'll break for things like some one starting to move the frame, then right clicking, then trying to stop moving, but they can deal :-D |
| 00:37.44 | Josh|Gone | anyway, really gone now, bye all |
| 00:40.06 | Cide- | http://pastecode.com/747 -- can anyone explain why one version works, while the other doesn't? |
| 00:40.27 | Cide- | namely, the GameFontNormal version does not override GameFontNormal's font size |
| 00:48.47 | Iriel | Cide- : I have no idea what order it returns them in, probably order defined as long as ou haven't reparented any |
| 00:49.12 | Cide- | yeah, it seemed to work using the order they were defined in |
| 00:49.21 | dan5981 | Cide-: don't you need to escape the backslash -- "\\" |
| 00:49.32 | Cide | not in xml |
| 00:50.02 | Iriel | Cide: Probably because font + height + flags are a tuple that defines a font |
| 00:50.16 | Cide | that's rather annoying |
| 00:50.51 | Iriel | Cide: You can query the parent at runtime and make a larger/smaller versoin |
| 00:51.26 | Cide | Iriel: yeah, true |
| 00:59.04 | mjc | what is the time between rajaxx waves now that it has been shortened? |
| 01:00.10 | mjc | anyone? |
| 01:00.22 | Industrial | nsfw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gNsDp2N6yM |
| 01:07.11 | Fanook | Industrial: oh, that's mean. funny, but mean :) |
| 01:07.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=masked@c-67-183-238-150.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 01:08.06 | cReDiAr | lol -> "Bessie - Her face, her body, everything just droops down, like a cow. Hey, I warned you not all of these were nice. She's a nice girl, but apparently gravity has already kicked her ass." |
| 01:08.32 | KarlKFI | hmmm, looks liek there's no good way to get what level the mob was that you just got xp from.. |
| 01:08.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine (n=chatzill@ns.motek-services.com) |
| 01:08.56 | Guillotine | heya ;) |
| 01:09.12 | Guillotine | so I just bought guild wars and I'm installing it right now |
| 01:09.50 | Shadowed | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:10.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge net\afk (n=net@dslb-088-064-177-032.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:11.40 | Iriel | Guillotine : original or factions? |
| 01:16.26 | Dagen | I really hate loosely typed languages |
| 01:17.28 | Dagen | needed to use itemRec and I accidentally typed ItemRec... no errors, but the thing didnt work... took me forever to find that |
| 01:25.41 | Shadowed | Hmm. Wouldn't calling RequestBattlefieldScoreData(); over and over and over everytime the score from the previous request ( UPDATE_BATTLEFIELD_SCORE fired ) lag the game a little? |
| 01:26.44 | Dagen | probably |
| 01:28.03 | KarlKFI | Can anyone think of a good way to get the level of a mob you just got xp from? |
| 01:28.19 | KarlKFI | say you're in a party and kill 2 at about the same time.. |
| 01:31.50 | KarlKFI | think i can do a "party1target" on the event that sends "%s is slain by %s!" ? |
| 01:32.11 | Shadowed | What happens if they kill it from AE or a DOT while targetting a differant mob? |
| 01:32.21 | KarlKFI | right.. |
| 01:34.19 | KarlKFI | guess i could store the unique values by player level |
| 01:34.37 | KarlKFI | and targetted mobs by level |
| 01:34.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge netcurse (n=net@dslb-088-064-177-032.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:35.06 | KarlKFI | then cross refrence the xp values against known mob levels |
| 01:35.58 | End | hmmm, the ability to specify the texture filename for SetCursor() doesn't seem very useful to me.... |
| 01:36.07 | End | considering I can't use my own textures |
| 01:36.17 | KarlKFI | why can't you? |
| 01:36.21 | End | I'm not sure |
| 01:36.56 | End | the cursor is not getting set...yet..I can use their texture filenames |
| 01:37.01 | End | just not my own |
| 01:37.51 | End | oh wait |
| 01:37.53 | End | there we go |
| 01:38.08 | End | either I -didn't- restart earlier, or it needs to be a blp |
| 01:38.16 | End | one or the other |
| 01:38.28 | KarlKFI | would surprise me if it doesn't take tgas |
| 01:39.16 | End | yeah |
| 01:39.21 | End | I wouldn't be surprise either |
| 01:39.21 | dan5981 | End: remember to *not* include the extension even if you use your own file |
| 01:39.36 | End | dan5981: oh I remembered |
| 01:39.45 | End | I recopied and pasted my past failed test |
| 01:39.55 | End | and it worked after restart :P |
| 01:40.11 | dan5981 | I think all the art is loaded at startup |
| 01:40.16 | End | it isn't |
| 01:40.27 | End | I thought I restarted earlier, but I might not of |
| 01:40.40 | End | I did two things different: |
| 01:41.03 | End | I generated a blp and I restarted (for sure) |
| 01:41.40 | End | so many people! |
| 01:42.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Industrial (n=Industri@194.145.194.227) |
| 01:43.23 | Cide | one thing (regarding the experience from killing discussion) |
| 01:44.08 | Cide | you lose your target when the target dies, but I'm not sure when that happens so you might be able to get away with it |
| 01:45.11 | Dagen | when a mob dies... you get a message that says "blah has died" right? |
| 01:45.17 | Cide | yes |
| 01:45.19 | KarlKFI | yeah |
| 01:45.21 | Dagen | maybe you can target through each of those |
| 01:45.24 | Dagen | and get the level that way |
| 01:45.52 | Dagen | instead of doing it based on xp |
| 01:46.07 | KarlKFI | unless multiple are dead of diff levels or none are in targetting range |
| 01:46.49 | Dagen | not really, you could fire some kind of event each time a mob dies |
| 01:47.05 | Dagen | if its not in targetting range you probably wont get the message |
| 01:47.57 | KarlKFI | well TargetByName alwas targets the closest unit.. |
| 01:48.04 | Dagen | cause even if you AOE a group of mobs dead, you'll see that message one at a time |
| 01:48.18 | Dagen | hmmm true |
| 01:48.51 | Dagen | thing is, XP can vary so much |
| 01:48.55 | Dagen | depending on a number of things |
| 01:49.13 | Dagen | I have no idea how you could get the level of a mob based on XP gained |
| 01:50.25 | KarlKFI | xp doesn't really change unpredictibly tho |
| 01:50.39 | Dagen | raid affects it, rested bonus, level and number of people in a group, elite or non-elite mobs give different xp, plus the type of mob affects it |
| 01:50.41 | KarlKFI | bonuses and raid penalties are provided |
| 01:50.49 | KarlKFI | level is predictable |
| 01:51.10 | KarlKFI | hmmm, forgot # of people in grp.. |
| 01:51.22 | KarlKFI | but that's provided anyway |
| 01:51.22 | Dagen | # of people in a group and their levels |
| 01:51.23 | KarlKFI | grp bonus |
| 01:51.42 | KarlKFI | COMBATLOG_XPGAIN_EXHAUSTION1_GROUP = "%s dies, you gain %d experience. (%s exp %s bonus, +%d group bonus)"; |
| 01:52.07 | Dagen | yeah, but the level of people in your group affects it too |
| 01:52.11 | End | ok, looks like it only accepts blps |
| 01:52.27 | Dagen | like if a level 60 is taking you through a level 30 instance |
| 01:52.38 | Dagen | xp is a lot different if you go with people your level |
| 01:52.56 | Dagen | even the damage you do has some effect on xp |
| 01:54.00 | KarlKFI | are you sure? not jsut if you hit it or not? |
| 01:54.21 | Dagen | yeah, I remember trying this once |
| 01:54.44 | KarlKFI | daman doesn't seem to effect anythign here |
| 01:54.46 | Dagen | I went with a level 60.. I'd tag some low level mobs and even though I had it tagged and was out of the party, a level 60 doing like 90% of the damage lowers your XP a lot |
| 01:54.47 | KarlKFI | damage |
| 01:55.09 | KarlKFI | out of the party is different |
| 01:55.24 | KarlKFI | damage within the party doesn't matter |
| 01:55.46 | Dagen | well maybe not... but my point still stands, damage effects your xp sometimes |
| 01:56.27 | Dagen | I'm also pretty sure different types of mobs give different amounts of xp, even at the same level |
| 01:56.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Depherios (n=Deph@67.189.88.161) |
| 01:57.08 | Dagen | and as you get higher level and soloing, you get more xp per kill |
| 01:57.41 | Dagen | like.. solo something at level 20 your level and solo something level 40 your level and you get different amounts of xp |
| 01:57.55 | Industrial | relatively? |
| 01:58.30 | KarlKFI | no, i know that |
| 01:58.34 | Dagen | well, I'm just saying there's tons of factors you have to consider to figure it out... it'd be a nightmare |
| 01:58.37 | KarlKFI | but that's predictable decay |
| 01:59.26 | Dagen | it wouldn't surprise me if like.. beasts give different xp than humanoids |
| 01:59.33 | KarlKFI | odd that i'm not getting raid penalty in a grp.. when does that kick in |
| 01:59.41 | Dagen | or if you even get different xp on mobs depending on the area |
| 01:59.48 | KarlKFI | no, that doesn't matter gagen |
| 02:00.03 | KarlKFI | i just want to know the level of the guy i killed |
| 02:00.15 | KarlKFI | not any guy based on that xp |
| 02:00.17 | Dagen | the game is smart enough to where if you have less than 6 people in a raid, it treats it like a group |
| 02:00.24 | KarlKFI | i already have his name and location |
| 02:01.26 | KarlKFI | sill wont let u quest in a small raid.. |
| 02:01.27 | Dagen | wont it? |
| 02:01.27 | Dagen | I thought that worked... |
| 02:08.44 | Kemayo | You can tell you haven't done much addon stuff in a while when you realise that you can't remember the syntax for a while loop. |
| 02:09.49 | cladhaire | ok |
| 02:09.52 | cladhaire | its ready for beta =) |
| 02:09.53 | cladhaire | http://dump.brokendreams.net/files/Clique-0.1-Beta.zip |
| 02:09.57 | cladhaire | There's Clique |
| 02:10.05 | Dagen | whats this? |
| 02:10.19 | cladhaire | posting what it does in a second =) |
| 02:10.26 | cladhaire | http://pastebin.ca/73558?srch=cladhaire |
| 02:10.31 | cladhaire | it'll be up on my portal tomorrow |
| 02:10.37 | cladhaire | please give it a run for its money |
| 02:12.04 | Cairenn | ~applaud cladhaire |
| 02:12.05 | purl | ACTION pins cladhaire to the wall with steak knives, then gives cladhaire a hanging ovation |
| 02:13.04 | cladhaire | Cairenn: You now have all your defaults (target, unit_menu) |
| 02:13.14 | cladhaire | Cairenn: Its actually ready for people who aren't me to use, lol |
| 02:13.17 | Cairenn | cool, will try playing with it |
| 02:14.14 | Tem | I need a way to tell if someone is ignoring me without alerting them to the fact that I'm testing for it if they are in fact not ignoreing me |
| 02:14.35 | KarlKFI | CastOptions has ranking already. If you use the two together it should work dandy |
| 02:15.14 | cladhaire | KarlKFI: What about ranking? |
| 02:15.21 | KarlKFI | since i believe CastOptions does it by hooking all the cast spell functions |
| 02:15.43 | cladhaire | KarlKFI: Clique handles it all natively in this case, so it should work either way |
| 02:17.49 | Tem | any ideas? |
| 02:21.34 | cladhaire | Tem: No idea =( |
| 02:21.40 | Tem | oh well |
| 02:21.44 | Tem | sending a tell it is |
| 02:21.57 | KarlKFI | apparently my router's wireless likes to overheat after 6 hours of continuous use |
| 02:22.25 | KarlKFI | I now have a small fan pointed directly at it and it's on it's side |
| 02:30.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri|home (i=andrew@124.197.5.130) |
| 02:33.40 | KarlKFI | what's the Inspect event? |
| 02:38.36 | KarlKFI | there aint one.. |
| 02:39.26 | KarlKFI | and NotifyInspect isn't on the wiki api page.. |
| 02:39.41 | KarlKFI | and i have no idea what it does |
| 02:40.56 | Iriel | Doesn't inspect just 'work' |
| 02:41.10 | KarlKFI | function InspectFrame_Show(unit) |
| 02:41.10 | KarlKFI | HideUIPanel(InspectFrame); |
| 02:41.10 | KarlKFI | if ( UnitExists(unit) and UnitIsPlayer(unit) and UnitCanCooperate("player", unit) ) then |
| 02:41.10 | KarlKFI | NotifyInspect(unit); |
| 02:41.10 | KarlKFI | InspectFrame.unit = unit; |
| 02:41.11 | KarlKFI | ShowUIPanel(InspectFrame); |
| 02:41.13 | KarlKFI | end |
| 02:41.15 | Iriel | I believe NotifyInspect asks for honor data |
| 02:41.15 | KarlKFI | end |
| 02:41.22 | Iriel | and you get an INSPECT_HONOR_UPDATE event later |
| 02:41.30 | KarlKFI | hmm |
| 02:41.34 | KarlKFI | ic |
| 02:42.44 | KarlKFI | that's not on the events page.. |
| 02:43.31 | Iriel | I grepped the code |
| 02:44.03 | Cairenn | later Iriel |
| 02:47.28 | End | well that's fun |
| 02:47.36 | End | I can't get onto on my realm |
| 02:47.40 | End | s/on // |
| 02:47.53 | End | stupid stuck at retrieving character list\ |
| 02:49.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (i=PROFI@user-0cev737.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 02:52.09 | Legorol | even more fun: 11 EU realms are going down for 36 hours maintenance |
| 02:52.20 | Legorol | about 50 more that are in the same data center are going down for 24 hours maintenance |
| 02:53.10 | Cairenn | happy happy joy joy |
| 03:02.00 | Legorol | omg! |
| 03:02.22 | Cairenn | ? |
| 03:02.35 | Legorol | in fact, out of the 5 data centers they have (one of which is new and therefore doesn't have many realms yet), all the realms in 3 of them are in fact going down for 24 hours |
| 03:02.44 | Legorol | this effectively leaves 1 and a half data centers operational |
| 03:02.52 | KarlKFI | lol gg |
| 03:03.21 | Legorol | i'd estimate around 70% of all servers are going down |
| 03:03.26 | Legorol | in EU |
| 03:03.29 | Legorol | that's just silly |
| 03:03.34 | Legorol | it'll be murder |
| 03:04.34 | KarlKFI | silly eu |
| 03:04.42 | Fanook | stupid rez bug....why can't they fix that |
| 03:05.32 | Kemayo | Clique loads Blizzard_RaidUI? |
| 03:06.15 | mjc | gg |
| 03:06.24 | mjc | rez bug? |
| 03:06.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (n=andrews@124.197.5.130) |
| 03:06.35 | cladhaire | Kemayo: No it doesn't. |
| 03:06.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 03:06.41 | cladhaire | Kemayo: But if Blizzard_RaidUI loads, it hooks it. |
| 03:07.05 | Kemayo | Huh. I wonder what loaded RaidUI, then. I've never actually seen it load before. :) |
| 03:07.10 | cladhaire | well |
| 03:07.13 | cladhaire | you're right |
| 03:07.14 | cladhaire | odd. |
| 03:07.26 | cladhaire | it doesn't actually load it |
| 03:07.28 | cladhaire | it just says it did =) |
| 03:08.22 | Kemayo | Strange, but definitely not an inconvenience. |
| 03:08.53 | chuckg | cladhaire, I get RaidUI blocked the moment I logon. |
| 03:08.58 | chuckg | Any ideas what that's all about? |
| 03:09.00 | chuckg | (new since patch) |
| 03:09.05 | cladhaire | cladhaire: What you mean "RaidUI blocked"? |
| 03:09.47 | cladhaire | MBR's message? |
| 03:10.41 | chuckg | Yes. |
| 03:10.45 | chuckg | And not when joining a raid. |
| 03:10.55 | cladhaire | i'm noticing other odd behavior. |
| 03:11.41 | cladhaire | something is loading BlizzardRaidUI when you login |
| 03:12.09 | cladhaire | and its loading BEFORE Warmup... |
| 03:12.13 | cladhaire | can anyone else verify this? |
| 03:13.03 | chuckg | That's what I mean. |
| 03:13.04 | chuckg | Yes. |
| 03:13.07 | cladhaire | and there was a patch? I'm still showing the same build number |
| 03:13.15 | chuckg | No I mean since 1.11 |
| 03:16.22 | cladhaire | the raid UI now loads on P_E_W unless i'm missing something |
| 03:16.24 | cladhaire | this is weird. |
| 03:17.22 | chuckg | I think you're still keeping some of it from loading, but not all. |
| 03:17.49 | cladhaire | aye |
| 03:18.46 | chuckg | I think the XML is definitely loading. |
| 03:19.08 | chuckg | Thought I guess tha'ts easy to check! |
| 03:19.22 | Legorol | great, there are 92 English EU realms. out of which only 29 will be available tomorrow |
| 03:19.50 | Legorol | I also made a post pointing out to EU CMs that I beleive the list they compiled is incomplete, they are missing 5 realms from it ;-) |
| 03:20.24 | cladhaire | yay |
| 03:20.29 | Legorol | we will see if i'm right when the realms go down |
| 03:20.30 | cladhaire | Chuck, thanks for the bug report. |
| 03:20.35 | chuckg | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:20.42 | chuckg | It's definitely loading the xml. |
| 03:20.42 | cladhaire | Blizzard is firing RAID_ROSTER_UPDATE after login, and its loading the RaidUI |
| 03:20.45 | cladhaire | before I can even get to it. |
| 03:20.48 | chuckg | K. |
| 03:20.58 | Cairenn | chuckg: confirmed for clad already ... DevTools: value=IsAddOnLoaded ("Blizzard_RaidUI") [1]=1 |
| 03:20.58 | cladhaire | coming from RaidFrame.lua:33 in FrameXML |
| 03:21.00 | chuckg | Is that related to the same raid info spam? |
| 03:21.05 | cladhaire | not likely |
| 03:21.09 | cladhaire | but it shouldn't be happening =) |
| 03:21.15 | cladhaire | it ruins the benefits of LoD =) |
| 03:21.54 | Cairenn | time for a post to slouken |
| 03:22.08 | cladhaire | i'm posting. |
| 03:22.21 | Cairenn | figured you were |
| 03:25.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-68-127-173-163.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 03:25.27 | Legorol | ok, this is ridiculous... apparently if you are on one of the realms that Blizz will move, your friends list will get wiped |
| 03:25.42 | Legorol | they advise that you (manually!) write down your friends list |
| 03:25.58 | Legorol | they do this with 15 hours notice, and only do so with a forum post |
| 03:26.03 | Legorol | that is entirely unaccaptable |
| 03:26.19 | cladhaire | O.o |
| 03:26.19 | cladhaire | wow |
| 03:26.25 | cladhaire | ok |
| 03:26.26 | cladhaire | i posted |
| 03:26.41 | Legorol | Cairenn, i'm interested in your professional opinion here.. |
| 03:26.58 | Legorol | do you think that Blizzard, a company that strives for excellence, can afford such a behaviour? |
| 03:27.13 | Cairenn | nuh uh, I'm not saying a thing |
| 03:27.16 | Legorol | hehe |
| 03:27.30 | Legorol | ok well fair enoguh, you remain impartial as ever |
| 03:27.39 | Legorol | but i do find this unacceptable |
| 03:27.43 | Legorol | Jonny doesn't necessarily read the forums |
| 03:27.47 | Legorol | even if he does, not every day |
| 03:28.04 | Legorol | he is now suddenly miraculously supposed to realise he has 15 hours to copy down his friends list on a piece of paper |
| 03:28.22 | Cairenn | it does seem .... less than stellar |
| 03:28.31 | Legorol | what amazes me is that others are whining about the downtime |
| 03:28.40 | Legorol | i couldn't care less, i can live without servers for 24 hours os 36 |
| 03:28.48 | Legorol | but wiping user data with such short notice... |
| 03:28.59 | Legorol | noone seems to have picked on this |
| 03:29.17 | Cairenn | so, comment on it |
| 03:29.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (n=andrews@124.197.5.130) |
| 03:29.55 | Kirov | On one hand, Blizzard has a shit ton of money, and it seems like this is something that a near infinite amount of money could prevent. |
| 03:31.13 | Kirov | On the other hand, I get the impression Blizzard's tech staff is a little overwhelmed at the moment. |
| 03:31.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ktron (n=khamer@c-24-147-7-189.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 03:31.21 | Cairenn | Kirov: a little? |
| 03:32.10 | Kirov | And Blizzard isn't EA - i.e. if something goes wrong they don't cancel 4 projects and dump 4000 people on one team. |
| 03:32.31 | Kirov | They're at least minorly selective about the people they hire |
| 03:36.50 | zespri | Carrien, didn't they rectify this overlook quite rapidly? |
| 03:37.13 | cladhaire | night folks =) |
| 03:37.28 | Cairenn | sweet dreams clad|sleep |
| 03:38.45 | KarlKFI | thx cair, love oyu too.. |
| 03:39.09 | Cairenn | *smooch* |
| 03:41.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Swimming_Bird (i=sbird@pool-138-88-2-167.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 03:41.47 | clad|sleep | http://dump.brokendreams.net/files/ for those who dont have svn |
| 03:41.51 | clad|sleep | peace =) |
| 03:47.09 | Ktron | I missed it, what does clique do? |
| 03:47.46 | clad|sleep | http://pastebin.ca/73558?srch=cladhaire |
| 03:48.24 | Cairenn | night KaeltenAway |
| 03:50.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorie (n=none@r43h96.res.gatech.edu) |
| 03:51.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kebinusan (i=Kebinusa@adsl-69-208-91-145.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net) |
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| 04:13.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin (n=Wobin@221.221.25.25) |
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| 04:37.25 | Tem | [Lok'amir il Romanthis, Buttplug of Nefarius] |
| 04:37.57 | Tem | (if you don't get the joke, look up the model) |
| 04:42.42 | Tem | so, how do you recover from a TL chromag without knowing it's gonna be TL yet? |
| 04:42.54 | Wobin | tl? |
| 04:43.28 | Tem | time lapse |
| 04:43.28 | Kebinusan | we just have the offtanks run out of LoS for the first two breaths in case its time lapse |
| 04:43.46 | Tem | and have everyone else run in for them!? |
| 04:44.39 | Kebinusan | no |
| 04:44.55 | Kebinusan | just go light on the dps till you know what the breaths are |
| 04:55.33 | Tem | eww |
| 04:55.39 | Tem | Ignite flesh and Time Lapse |
| 04:55.55 | Kebinusan | fun combo |
| 04:56.07 | Tem | thankfully the fire festival buff will help |
| 04:56.20 | Kebinusan | just pray for quick decursing |
| 04:56.22 | Tem | fire fest + UBRS buff |
| 04:56.27 | Tem | I'm a mage |
| 04:56.34 | Tem | I am god of decursing |
| 04:56.51 | Tem | TL is good for decurse too |
| 04:57.04 | Tem | since you are almost always in LoS of your peeps |
| 05:05.46 | Cairenn | Sleep time for me. Won't be around much tomorrow, daughter's Graduation and folk's 40th Anniversary |
| 05:26.26 | krka | cair must learn to prioritize :/ |
| 05:26.40 | Cairenn|sleep | ? |
| 05:27.02 | krka | really, what's more important, us our daughter + folks? |
| 05:27.04 | krka | yeah, thought so! |
| 05:27.14 | krka | err... your, not our |
| 05:27.18 | krka | sorry, didn't mean to wake you btw |
| 05:27.26 | Cairenn|sleep | *snuggles krka* |
| 05:27.42 | Cairenn|sleep | s'okay, not actually gone *just* yet, doing last sweep of sites and such |
| 05:28.00 | krka | i know how that goes :P |
| 05:28.54 | Cairenn|sleep | heh, yeah, usually means I'm awake for another hour after I say I'm going to bed |
| 05:29.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Esamynn (n=jbcc@d207-216-176-153.bchsia.telus.net) |
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| 06:08.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge s|loup (n=loup@exch01.berlinheart.de) |
| 06:09.26 | s|loup | hi |
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| 06:48.15 | Wobin | any engineers here that can tell me what to grind to get past 250? |
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| 07:00.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kalroth (n=kalroth@195.215.170.222) |
| 07:09.30 | Fanook | Wobin: if i had to guess, it would be explosives. i can't remember what i did (~270 engineer) |
| 07:09.59 | Wobin | trying to grind using The Big One |
| 07:10.05 | Wobin | or mithril gyroshot |
| 07:17.27 | Fanook | hmm, prolly some of it was ammo |
| 07:18.32 | Fanook | The Big One is goblin-only, isn't it... |
| 07:18.41 | Kebinusan | only gobbies can make em |
| 07:18.45 | Kebinusan | anyone can use em |
| 07:18.51 | Kebinusan | same with sapper charges which are pretty sweet for pvp |
| 07:19.03 | Fanook | that would explain why i haven't seen it :) (gnome eng) |
| 07:19.22 | Kebinusan | there was a leveling engineering cheap guide on the wow profression forums |
| 07:31.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 07:31.26 | Kirov | didn't Iriel write an addon that lets you click on chat messages to see what event they came from? |
| 07:31.50 | Kirov | Is it lumped in to the new dev tools? |
| 07:32.17 | Kalroth | Yup |
| 07:32.22 | Kalroth | And it is sweet! |
| 07:32.39 | krka_ | no... schweeeeeeet! |
| 07:33.37 | Tem | holy balls |
| 07:33.53 | Tem | so that's what it's like to repair the best staff in the game |
| 07:34.33 | Tem | 13g is a little much for me |
| 07:34.40 | Tem|Sleep | night guys |
| 07:35.56 | Kirov | ok, are all heals on yourself as HOSTILEPLAYER_BUFF event? |
| 07:44.49 | KarlKFI | the other pally in this scholo grp just repaired for 28g |
| 07:45.04 | Shadowed | KarlKFI: Is he in full epics or something? |
| 07:45.13 | KarlKFI | tier 1 was all red and his backup was yellow |
| 07:45.51 | Shadowed | Was going to say, learning nights are usually 26g-30g worth of repair bills, couldn't figure out how he got 28g |
| 07:46.00 | Shadowed | dpsadin who dies a lot? |
| 07:46.21 | KarlKFI | we were doing .5 boss |
| 07:46.25 | KarlKFI | and full clear |
| 07:46.30 | Shadowed | ahh |
| 07:47.09 | KarlKFI | i only had 9g repair |
| 07:47.25 | KarlKFI | but i was wearing more blues |
| 07:49.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg_ (n=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
| 07:53.21 | KarlKFI | so if you swim up to menathil from westfall there's an empty house and port randomly chilling accross from dun morogh |
| 07:56.30 | Fanook | and if you swim around Gilneas, you find it's not there |
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| 08:00.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg_ (n=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
| 08:01.17 | KarlKFI | lol, unexpectidly? |
| 08:01.40 | Miravlix | My father that I haven't talked to in 5 years, put them there |
| 08:01.59 | KarlKFI | interesting |
| 08:02.00 | Miravlix | So yeah, fairly unexpectedly. |
| 08:02.40 | KarlKFI | well, i have here a 'buy karl a new computer' fund |
| 08:02.40 | Miravlix | I did lie about developing needs, I was already planning buying some stuff, I just thought it would take until X-mas before it was all bought |
| 08:02.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=MoonWolf@a80-127-128-193.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 08:02.57 | KarlKFI | O.o |
| 08:04.06 | Miravlix | over 2.5K for my new windows machine. 500 for all the parts to fixup the rest of the machines |
| 08:04.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ven (n=ven@dynadsl-080-228-74-009.ewetel.net) |
| 08:04.59 | Miravlix | And now I can order it all for delivery in a few days. nice. |
| 08:05.46 | Fanook | i wish i could upgrade this box, *grumbles at dell for using rd-ram* |
| 08:06.01 | Kalroth | I'm happy with my current setup |
| 08:06.23 | Kalroth | So hopefully it'll be a while before I have to upgrade again, I hate it |
| 08:07.52 | Miravlix | I buy parts, not pre-builds, so it's always a lot of work. |
| 08:07.56 | KarlKFI | my box is 3 years old now |
| 08:08.12 | Kalroth | Miravlix: Same here |
| 08:08.16 | Miravlix | You use a Mac |
| 08:08.17 | Kalroth | I like to know what I put in it |
| 08:08.34 | KarlKFI | yeah, i i didn't buy the top of the line then either |
| 08:08.39 | Miravlix | Look at the Vista specs |
| 08:08.49 | Miravlix | the damn os need more power than WoW just to boot |
| 08:09.14 | KarlKFI | yeah, the difference between OS 9 and X was substantial |
| 08:09.26 | Kalroth | <- dualcore amd 64bit, 3gb ram and 7800 GTX :) |
| 08:09.44 | dreamss | seems like a waste of hardware on wow |
| 08:09.55 | Miravlix | I'm waiting for my new Dual Core AMD 64 4800 and 7900 GTX |
| 08:10.09 | dreamss | plz tell me u play other game |
| 08:10.09 | dreamss | s |
| 08:10.16 | Kalroth | not games, nope |
| 08:10.21 | KarlKFI | I"m waiting... for stuff that isn't out yet |
| 08:10.24 | Kalroth | but I do use it for other stuff as well |
| 08:10.29 | KarlKFI | but i dont have money so it's ok |
| 08:10.31 | dreamss | rendering? |
| 08:10.41 | Miravlix | dreamss: If I did it would be 7900x2 GTX with a SLI motherboard |
| 08:10.46 | Kalroth | programming, database, etc. |
| 08:10.54 | dreamss | umm |
| 08:10.56 | dreamss | what? |
| 08:11.00 | Miravlix | Now I just went with a single 7900 GTX |
| 08:11.15 | Kalroth | rendering is cpu dependent, not gpu :p |
| 08:11.37 | dreamss | oh rly? -_- |
| 08:11.47 | Kalroth | I was telling Mira :) |
| 08:12.05 | KarlKFI | unless you render on the fly.. |
| 08:12.13 | dreamss | plz tell me u played prey |
| 08:12.14 | Miravlix | Yeah, no point in 2x or 4x SLI with WoW |
| 08:12.15 | dreamss | and graw |
| 08:12.23 | dreamss | or 1x =) |
| 08:12.31 | Kalroth | KarlKFI: Then you just need a fast opengl card |
| 08:12.35 | Miravlix | I need some card in the machine |
| 08:12.42 | Miravlix | it doesn't work without a video card |
| 08:13.28 | Miravlix | So saying it doesn't need 1x is wrong. :p |
| 08:13.30 | Kalroth | dreamss: Nope, I saw the demo of Prey, but I don't like FPS games that much :) |
| 08:14.02 | dreamss | *handonheadmove* |
| 08:15.19 | dreamss | i think fps are one of the few games that require such nice hardware |
| 08:15.40 | KarlKFI | just wait a couple years |
| 08:16.07 | KarlKFI | his box we'll barely be able to play the next big mmo |
| 08:16.23 | KarlKFI | will* |
| 08:16.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge SunTiger (n=MoonWolf@a80-127-128-193.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 08:16.32 | dreamss | well.. he prolly will upgrade soon |
| 08:17.18 | KarlKFI | let him spend his money on what he wants. Doesn't need you stealing his joy |
| 08:17.48 | KarlKFI | you know you'd brag too if you got a new box |
| 08:17.55 | KarlKFI | it's int he nerd creed |
| 08:19.32 | dreamss | i be to bussy trying every new game our tbh |
| 08:20.05 | dreamss | im not killing his joy.. just seems like a waste of hardware |
| 08:20.23 | dreamss | Kalroth did u play tomb rider legends on that? |
| 08:20.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaso (n=Jonathan@host81-159-131-186.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 08:20.30 | Kalroth | Nope |
| 08:21.21 | Kalroth | I once tried uhmm, age of empires I think |
| 08:21.35 | Kalroth | and the followup to Morrowwind, forget the name |
| 08:21.52 | SunTiger | Oblivion. |
| 08:22.06 | Kalroth | Thats it :) |
| 08:22.27 | Wobin | I can't even play Obvlivious on my laptop =( |
| 08:22.30 | Wobin | Well I can |
| 08:22.47 | Wobin | It's like being immersed in a 640x480 room filled with fog. |
| 08:22.52 | dreamss | honestly u need to get some new games |
| 08:22.55 | dreamss | :P |
| 08:22.57 | MoonWolf | Wobin, cool. |
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| 08:55.45 | Kalroth | hrm, does anyone know if lua does optimized comparisons? |
| 08:56.36 | Kalroth | eg. "if ( not Table["Name"] or not Table["Name"]["Key1"] or not Table["Name"]["Key1"] ) then return; end |
| 08:56.54 | Wobin | Kalroth: yus |
| 08:57.14 | Kalroth | so it'll stop already at the first comparison that doesn't match? |
| 08:57.16 | Wobin | Or rather, shortcircuited logic |
| 08:57.19 | Kalroth | yup |
| 08:57.21 | Wobin | aye |
| 08:57.43 | Kalroth | Good, then I could add a 'slow' api call in the end if I wanted |
| 08:57.46 | krka_ | almost all languages have that :P |
| 08:57.59 | zenzelezz | pretty much sucks if they don't |
| 08:58.00 | Kalroth | well lua isn't that good a language, so I just wanted to make sure :p |
| 08:58.10 | Wobin | Nuffin wrong with Lua |
| 08:58.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@151.56.219.207) |
| 08:58.15 | Wobin | It's very shiny =P |
| 08:58.16 | Kaso | take that back! lua is lovely! |
| 08:58.50 | krka_ | stop trolling |
| 08:58.54 | Wobin | I dare you to go into #lua and say that =P |
| 08:59.01 | Wobin | I double dog dare ya =P |
| 08:59.08 | Kalroth | coding in lua is like coming home drunk with a sexy girl and then waking up in the morning with a headache and a transvesite |
| 08:59.13 | Wobin | No |
| 08:59.17 | Wobin | That's BASIC |
| 08:59.28 | Wobin | Visual Basic is waking up with a granny |
| 08:59.43 | Kalroth | No, with BASIC you'll know it's a transvesite, but you'd still continue |
| 09:00.09 | krka_ | Lua is pretty |
| 09:00.20 | Kalroth | If you're drunk, sure! |
| 09:00.23 | zenzelezz | can still do that in Visual Basic |
| 09:00.27 | zenzelezz | On Error Resume Next |
| 09:00.36 | Wobin | It's just more event driven =P |
| 09:01.34 | Wobin | Bah. You'll never convert us, Kalroth |
| 09:01.43 | Wobin | We like lua |
| 09:01.51 | Wobin | You just haven't learnt how to use it =P |
| 09:02.05 | zenzelezz | careful or they'll redo the UI in perl |
| 09:02.39 | Wobin | aiee |
| 09:03.22 | Wobin | That's waking up to the neighbours cat =( |
| 09:04.05 | Wobin | Can you do OO in perl? |
| 09:05.27 | krka_ | I can do O_o in perl |
| 09:05.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (n=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
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| 09:07.26 | zenzelezz | OOPS - object-oriented perl scripts |
| 09:09.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=MoonWolf@a80-127-128-193.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 09:19.00 | Miravlix | I hate using money, I love the result of doing it. |
| 09:20.11 | zenzelezz | what did you buy? |
| 09:24.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg_ (n=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
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| 09:32.45 | zenzelezz | GM tickets unavailable on EU servers... is that because of the server moves; or is there some French holiday? |
| 09:42.13 | Kirkburn | Every day is a french holiday, strike, too sunny, too cold, too many cars, everyone's ill, etc, etc |
| 09:42.40 | zenzelezz | true, but they don't shut down GM tickets on most of those occasions |
| 09:42.46 | Kirkburn | They should add strike days to the calendar in france, y'know |
| 09:43.05 | Kirkburn | No, I think it's cause of migrations |
| 09:43.46 | Kirkburn | http://blue.cardplace.com/cache/wow-general-en/1086821.htm |
| 09:44.22 | Kirkburn | Oh right, yes ... looks like I won't be playing today then :/ |
| 09:44.22 | Kaso | French like they're bank olidays |
| 09:45.03 | Kirkburn | Any excuse not to work :) |
| 09:48.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 09:53.13 | Miravlix | I feel poor |
| 09:54.37 | Wobin | Already |
| 09:54.38 | Wobin | ? |
| 09:59.13 | zenzelezz | "According to a report from TechGage.com MMOG publisher NCSoft has laid off 25% of its overall staff including 70 employees from its NC Austin studio. F13.net also claims the layoffs include 80% of the Game Masters, 90% of the tech support staff and 75% of the QA staff." |
| 09:59.23 | zenzelezz | we don't need GMs! |
| 10:04.06 | Wobin | Looks like they don't need quality or support, either =P |
| 10:04.29 | s|loup | maybe they have just 3 people who plays? |
| 10:06.31 | Mikk1 | o. must say the Lineage II graphics are seriously gawkable |
| 10:06.35 | Mikk1 | never knew |
| 10:26.23 | Kirkburn | What does gawkable mean? :) |
| 10:26.49 | Mikk1 | Well urm |
| 10:27.33 | Mikk1 | http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/gawk as an adjective, sorta =) |
| 10:28.22 | Mikk1 | errr.. click definition 2 |
| 10:28.28 | Mikk1 | the verb |
| 10:28.56 | Kirkburn | Heh, u meant it looks amazing? :) |
| 10:29.06 | Kirkburn | I just wasn't sure which way you meant it :P |
| 10:29.26 | Mikk1 | didn't realize britons had a weird definition of it :P |
| 10:30.33 | Kirkburn | hehe |
| 10:31.01 | Kirkburn | Time for some Hanjie |
| 10:36.20 | Mikk1 | That sounds like something that carries an incarceration penalty o.O |
| 10:41.15 | Kirkburn | :P Search for it on google if you dare ... |
| 10:45.19 | Mikk1 | AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH |
| 10:45.42 | Kirkburn | haha |
| 11:05.29 | KarlKFI | anyone awake have a char on draka? |
| 11:05.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku_ (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 11:05.39 | KarlKFI | nm, i got it |
| 11:09.58 | KarlKFI | better question. is there anyone who has a pet on draka alliance |
| 11:10.28 | *** part/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 11:28.52 | clad|sleep | no, but thats a good idea.. i'll level a hunter up |
| 11:34.20 | KarlKFI | partypet debuffs are such a pain to test.. |
| 11:47.26 | zenzelezz | isn't there a party<n> for the player? |
| 11:47.34 | s|loup | yes there is |
| 11:47.40 | s|loup | party1 to party4 |
| 11:47.54 | s|loup | oh |
| 11:47.59 | s|loup | no player is not party |
| 11:48.08 | zenzelezz | aha |
| 11:48.18 | zenzelezz | then I can see partypet being annoying |
| 11:49.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 11:51.08 | KarlKFI | wow, figured out why Archaeologist party pet buff tooltips didn't work.. that bug's been around for ages |
| 11:51.32 | KarlKFI | apparently all the id's of the buff frames are being set to 0 somehow |
| 11:52.29 | zenzelezz | for the addon, or vanilla UI? (I don't play a pet class) |
| 11:52.51 | KarlKFI | normal party pet frames dont have buffs afaik |
| 11:53.07 | KarlKFI | they may, i actually dont remember |
| 11:53.22 | KarlKFI | anyway, the addons are |
| 11:53.35 | KarlKFI | the id's are set on creation and reset somewhere incorrectly |
| 11:55.38 | KarlKFI | think i found it |
| 11:56.02 | KarlKFI | the code's missing a line |
| 11:56.22 | KarlKFI | tho i'm not really sure why i have it setting all the id's every time it updates.. |
| 11:56.52 | KarlKFI | yay for looking at old code and asking "wtf was i thinking!?" |
| 11:58.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cReDiAr (n=cReDiAr@p508DEBBC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:58.11 | zenzelezz | I do that a lot |
| 11:59.26 | KarlKFI | yeah, well i dunno what i was thinking, but if i remove those lines it breaks.. |
| 11:59.35 | KarlKFI | so i guess they stay :P |
| 11:59.47 | zenzelezz | -- What is this actually doing? |
| 12:00.02 | KarlKFI | isn't that a comment in wow code? |
| 12:00.19 | zenzelezz | and I thought I was being original :-| |
| 12:00.24 | zenzelezz | obvious, but original |
| 12:05.58 | KarlKFI | i win |
| 12:06.31 | KarlKFI | finally got target buff wrappign all sexy to earlier |
| 12:06.36 | KarlKFI | too* |
| 12:06.48 | KarlKFI | think Arch is finally ready for 1.11 lol |
| 12:07.18 | KarlKFI | this is cute tho: |
| 12:07.19 | KarlKFI | ========================================================= |
| 12:07.19 | KarlKFI | Assertion Failed! |
| 12:07.19 | KarlKFI | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:07.19 | KarlKFI | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:07.20 | KarlKFI | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:07.21 | KarlKFI | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:07.23 | KarlKFI | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:07.53 | Kalroth | lol |
| 12:08.01 | zenzelezz | tried to access something past the end of an array? |
| 12:08.16 | KarlKFI | prolly partypet buffs |
| 12:08.28 | KarlKFI | not really sure how i go it |
| 12:08.34 | KarlKFI | got it* |
| 12:08.41 | KarlKFI | but that's what i was messing with |
| 12:09.49 | Cide | seems to me as if it was party pet #5 or something |
| 12:10.17 | Mikk1 | Arf. My realm is down for 24 hours |
| 12:10.29 | Josh|Gone | morning |
| 12:12.17 | Mikk1 | HAH. I have a lvl4 rogue on one the realms that aren' |
| 12:12.21 | Mikk1 | aren't down =) |
| 12:13.38 | Cide | grats? ;) |
| 12:14.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=legorol@cpc2-cmbg6-0-0-cust566.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 12:14.05 | Cide | I'm doing graphics.. which is sad, seeing as a 5 year old can do better graphics than I can |
| 12:14.39 | KarlKFI | :P for what cide? |
| 12:14.54 | Cide | CTRA |
| 12:14.55 | Legorol | did US get a mini-patch? |
| 12:15.15 | KarlKFI | not that i know of |
| 12:15.22 | Mikk1 | eu didn't that i know |
| 12:15.53 | zenzelezz | not unless it were server-side |
| 12:16.07 | krka_ | did WE get a mini-patch |
| 12:16.14 | Kalroth | Cide: I'll help you, I'm a good graphician! |
| 12:16.30 | Kalroth | (also I'm older than 5 years) |
| 12:16.59 | Legorol | krka: nope |
| 12:17.13 | Kalroth | Cide: oh oh, I got another question! :p |
| 12:17.25 | Legorol | so what do you make of this: |
| 12:17.25 | Legorol | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8852853&p=1&tmp=1#post8852853 |
| 12:17.28 | Legorol | is this server side? |
| 12:18.12 | zenzelezz | I'm Euro, I wouldn't know what happened to US |
| 12:20.23 | Industrial | Legorol: why are people so retarded to only post 'First page :)' |
| 12:20.36 | Industrial | really.. moderate the forums.. cut it out of the thread :| |
| 12:20.58 | Industrial | and move the post to the 'wall of shame' forum |
| 12:20.58 | Industrial | ;D |
| 12:21.06 | JoshBorke | ( Legorol ): yes, it was server side. |
| 12:21.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 12:22.22 | JoshBorke | morning wereHamster |
| 12:24.47 | wereHamster | morning |
| 12:25.22 | KarlKFI | you wanna know what's really scary hard to maintain... |
| 12:25.22 | Kirkburn | Cide, what are the gfx for exactly? |
| 12:25.28 | Kirkburn | An elephant? |
| 12:25.31 | Cide | "stuff" |
| 12:25.33 | KarlKFI | 10 optional dependancies and no req deps |
| 12:25.43 | Cide | KarlKFI: only in your dreams :) |
| 12:25.48 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 12:25.55 | Cide | I fail at graphics regardless of what it is |
| 12:26.08 | Kirkburn | Well, er, have fun making gfx for 'stuff' ... CTRA 2? |
| 12:26.13 | KarlKFI | ## OptionalDeps: Sea, MCom, Localization, SeaString, SeaHooks, Sky, Khaos, Cosmos, MobHealth, MobInfo2 |
| 12:26.27 | Cide | Kirkburn: yes |
| 12:26.36 | Cide | right now I'm making an arrow, actually! |
| 12:26.50 | Kirkburn | Would it be a bad idea to wonder if you have a eta? =) |
| 12:27.07 | Cide | or, ## OptionalDeps: ... and not having to worry about optionally supporting stuff |
| 12:27.10 | zenzelezz | Cide: just make stupid placeholder graphics and have someone make good ones when you need them |
| 12:27.12 | Cide | Kirkburn: oh, maybe 2 months? |
| 12:27.17 | Kirkburn | Arrows are fun! I like arrows! Arrows! |
| 12:27.34 | Kirkburn | coolio |
| 12:27.45 | Cide | zenzelezz: that 'someone' being...? :) |
| 12:27.46 | KarlKFI | no cide, not optionally supporting stuff is dracticly easier to maintain |
| 12:28.10 | zenzelezz | Cide: well if I knew I'd suggest the person instead of placeholder graphics :-p |
| 12:28.17 | Cide | optionally supporting sky would mean I have to provide code for those that don't use it, too |
| 12:28.19 | Kirkburn | KarlKFI, at least you control many of them ;) |
| 12:28.48 | Mikk1 | Don't see the point of optionally depending on libs |
| 12:28.53 | KarlKFI | right.. that's what i said... |
| 12:29.02 | Cide | then it's not an optional dependency :) |
| 12:29.03 | KarlKFI | it's easier to not optdep |
| 12:29.11 | Cide | oh |
| 12:29.15 | Cide | "not optionally supporting" |
| 12:29.17 | Mikk1 | Optionally depending on another AddOn to get added functionality is another thing |
| 12:29.20 | Cide | nevermind, I misunderstood you |
| 12:29.51 | KarlKFI | well in this case those opt deps are mostly just for loading order |
| 12:29.53 | Kirkburn | Never misunderestimate misunderstands |
| 12:29.54 | Cide | KarlKFI's right, we all agree, it was just a misunderstanding :P |
| 12:29.59 | Mikk1 | KarlKFI: ahh |
| 12:30.21 | KarlKFI | loading order because it has 4 embedded libs |
| 12:31.16 | Cide | I can see the usefulness of using libraries, but usually they're too big for me to use in a single mod |
| 12:31.20 | KarlKFI | i agree with you cide, optionally depending on SKy would be a nightmare |
| 12:31.39 | Cide | KarlKFI: hehe, good :) |
| 12:31.49 | KarlKFI | if you were gonna use Sky you would have to break revers compatibility |
| 12:32.31 | KarlKFI | Which in the case of your heavily entranched mod might not be a good thing |
| 12:32.54 | KarlKFI | on the other hand, anyone who wants to keep using it has to update for new patches anyway.. |
| 12:33.28 | Cide | loading out of date addons usually does the trick too, though |
| 12:33.36 | KarlKFI | sometimes, yes |
| 12:35.29 | KarlKFI | the only way to maintain reverse compat would be to keep your orig code in and duplicate messages, which would suck, hard |
| 12:35.41 | Cide | yeah |
| 12:36.19 | KarlKFI | and honestly the benifit of that over breaking reverse compat aren't that great |
| 12:37.36 | KarlKFI | and of course the benifit to you is generally minimal in switching to sky since you already have a workign system, which is why you haven't done it. |
| 12:38.12 | Cide | the arrow actually looks decent! |
| 12:38.22 | Cide | but yeah, that's generally how I feel too |
| 12:39.20 | KarlKFI | I could argue the benifit of having a single system and less channels... |
| 12:39.56 | KarlKFI | or the fact that you dont have to maintain it |
| 12:40.23 | KarlKFI | mikk just doesn't like me |
| 12:40.43 | KarlKFI | and will say anythign contrary to what I say |
| 12:40.50 | Mikk1 | no i won't! |
| 12:41.28 | Kalroth | aww |
| 12:41.31 | Kalroth | I like you Karl! |
| 12:41.48 | KarlKFI | well mikk, if you were even beign serious, which you weren't. you would know that making sky work on a declared channel liek ctra's would be disasterous |
| 12:41.54 | Mikk1 | yep |
| 12:42.05 | Mikk1 | and i do know the shortcomings of CTRA's channel selection |
| 12:42.48 | KarlKFI | then stop being such a pain |
| 12:42.55 | Mikk1 | but my server is down! |
| 12:42.58 | Mikk1 | what else can i do! =) |
| 12:43.05 | KarlKFI | go update the wiki |
| 12:43.07 | Mikk1 | haha |
| 12:43.32 | KarlKFI | go add the inspect api and event that they added in 1.11 |
| 12:43.51 | Mikk1 | inspect api? |
| 12:43.59 | Mikk1 | i thought i added all the functions that Iriel listed o.O |
| 12:44.06 | KarlKFI | he missed it |
| 12:44.10 | Mikk1 | oops |
| 12:45.09 | Mikk1 | Lego's scanner too? |
| 12:45.21 | Mikk1 | They have funky names or something? |
| 12:45.47 | KarlKFI | INSPECT_HONOR_UPDATE and NotifyInspect(unit) |
| 12:46.59 | Mikk1 | meh, it's in the wowapi page |
| 12:47.06 | KarlKFI | so, i love how the PartyBuffButtonTemplate got modified to add a border almost identical to the one in Archaeologist |
| 12:47.20 | KarlKFI | did irial add it today? |
| 12:47.28 | KarlKFI | cause it wasn't there earlier |
| 12:47.28 | Kirkburn | The coloured borders? |
| 12:47.29 | Mikk1 | nope |
| 12:47.52 | KarlKFI | ya kirk, Arch has had green buffs and red debuffs for ages |
| 12:48.03 | Kirkburn | heh ... well they're not *quite* the same =) |
| 12:48.09 | Mikk1 | notifyinspect was in 1.10 too |
| 12:48.11 | KarlKFI | no, but the xml is |
| 12:48.15 | Kirkburn | lol |
| 12:48.39 | KarlKFI | they stole my xml, i want recompense! |
| 12:49.03 | Kirkburn | Hey, I used the word 'they' recently! Stop stealing my words! :P |
| 12:49.33 | KarlKFI | they is only 1 word |
| 12:51.20 | Kalroth | actually they is both 'they' and 'hey' |
| 12:51.50 | KarlKFI | remember how mikk likes to contradict everythign i say.. |
| 12:52.41 | Mikk1 | this time you have it coming tho |
| 12:52.56 | Mikk1 | NotifyInspect has been in the wowapi page since february last year |
| 12:53.12 | KarlKFI | ... is it not int he inspect section? |
| 12:53.26 | Mikk1 | it is |
| 12:53.35 | Kirkburn | haha |
| 12:53.41 | KarlKFI | O.o i just looked there liek 12 hours ago.. |
| 12:53.52 | Mikk1 | page hasn't been edited for 3 days |
| 12:53.59 | KarlKFI | grawr! |
| 12:54.01 | Kirkburn | (I agree it's a bit naughty if the xml really is that similar, btw, I was just poking fun =) |
| 12:54.24 | KarlKFI | ok.. is the event on the event page too or is my find broken |
| 12:55.11 | Mikk1 | nope, event isn't there |
| 12:56.16 | KarlKFI | good, at leats it's only my eyes that are broken and not my browser >.< |
| 12:56.21 | Mikk1 | =) |
| 12:56.46 | Kirkburn | So, anyone heard Paris Hilton's music single? :) |
| 12:56.53 | Mikk1 | ugh yes |
| 12:57.06 | Kirkburn | hehehe |
| 12:57.19 | Kirkburn | Despite it being her, it's not brain-exploding awful, I found |
| 12:57.21 | KarlKFI | she's single!? |
| 12:57.27 | Kirkburn | mmmmmm |
| 12:58.00 | Kirkburn | err, is that even a possible description of Paris? |
| 12:58.01 | Mikk1 | interestingly, FrameXML doesn't register that event |
| 12:58.15 | Mikk1 | It's a possible description of her music |
| 12:58.42 | Mikk1 | Though as skinny as she is I must say Paris Hilton Naked is a similar turnoff to me |
| 12:58.48 | KarlKFI | mikk's not looking in the wow addons |
| 12:59.02 | Mikk1 | o.O |
| 12:59.21 | Kirkburn | There is no UndressParis event, mikk |
| 12:59.24 | Mikk1 | haha |
| 12:59.42 | KarlKFI | Blizzard_InspectUI |
| 12:59.48 | Mikk1 | oho |
| 12:59.57 | zenzelezz | <Kirkburn> There is no UndressParis event, mikk <--- thankfully |
| 12:59.57 | Mikk1 | yeah i'm not loading those atm |
| 12:59.57 | KarlKFI | lern2grep |
| 13:00.01 | Kirkburn | Nor is there an 'Inspect'Paris function |
| 13:00.13 | Mikk1 | i wasn't grepping. i'm running framexml in wowbench and looking at what events it registers for =) |
| 13:00.20 | KarlKFI | failure |
| 13:00.29 | zenzelezz | that's a base male ability thought Kirkburn; Inspect Female |
| 13:00.37 | zenzelezz | *though |
| 13:00.42 | Kirkburn | heh, true |
| 13:00.51 | Mikk1 | aka look@boobies |
| 13:01.16 | zenzelezz | breasts are overrated |
| 13:01.25 | Mikk1 | inconceivable! |
| 13:01.40 | KarlKFI | depends on how much they spec'd up that tree |
| 13:01.53 | Mikk1 | SiliconeEnhancement tree? |
| 13:01.55 | zenzelezz | it's all about relative proportions |
| 13:01.59 | KarlKFI | some people prefer a geed ass |
| 13:02.04 | KarlKFI | good* |
| 13:02.14 | zenzelezz | nice typo o_O |
| 13:02.31 | KarlKFI | I, myself tend to appreciate appropriate sized boobies more |
| 13:02.44 | Kirkburn | Nooo! |
| 13:03.00 | zenzelezz | hey, you're the one who got technical about body parts Mikk1 |
| 13:03.02 | Mikk1 | ~lart Kirkburn |
| 13:03.16 | Kirkburn | Oh, god, Ay Oh Elllllllllllllllllll |
| 13:03.20 | KarlKFI | LOL |
| 13:03.45 | Mikk1 | this is gonna take a while =P |
| 13:03.53 | KarlKFI | here we are: http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-552-1-archaeologist.html |
| 13:04.02 | Mikk1 | ~cheer KarlKFI |
| 13:04.04 | purl | ACTION cheers KarlKFI on |
| 13:04.04 | Mikk1 | darn |
| 13:04.17 | KarlKFI | all nice and shiney standalone |
| 13:07.04 | KarlKFI | and with that.. |
| 13:17.10 | End | "Whenever I try to move or delete the Yatlas folder I get an "access denied" error. The file is not open in any other application and my disk is not full." |
| 13:18.01 | End | (I'm not really sure how to respond to that...) |
| 13:20.21 | Kirkburn | Yay, Sony execs at it again! You just can't get away from the stupidity/hypocrisy at that company recently: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=142154 |
| 13:21.19 | Kirkburn | End, tell them to fetch a hammer. |
| 13:21.59 | End | heh |
| 13:23.12 | Kirkburn | I didn't say what they should use it one ... |
| 13:23.17 | Kirkburn | *on |
| 13:23.40 | Kirkburn | =) |
| 13:23.44 | End | >_< |
| 13:23.58 | Kirkburn | That's probably the appropriate expression, yeah :P |
| 13:37.34 | Kirkburn | I'm to Uni, back soon. |
| 13:51.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Andalia (n=xx@p54AD8C9E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:53.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge _bs (n=bs@zeroth.crossbar.net) |
| 13:54.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@josephpartners.com) |
| 13:54.33 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 14:05.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorolo (n=Legorol@tcmpc43.phy.cam.ac.uk) |
| 14:16.40 | Legorolo | Mikk1: you around? |
| 14:26.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@208.104.133.240) |
| 14:31.35 | zenzelezz | greetings Cairenn |
| 14:32.47 | Cairenn | hi |
| 14:34.22 | s|loup | hi |
| 14:36.06 | Kalroth | geez woman, just as I have to head home you wake up! |
| 14:36.34 | Cairenn | sorry Kalroth |
| 14:36.46 | Kalroth | that's ok, just don't let it happen until next time! |
| 14:37.28 | Kalroth | but good morning regardless :) |
| 14:37.33 | Cairenn | thanks |
| 14:39.00 | Kirkburn | mornin' Cairenn |
| 14:39.04 | Cairenn | hi Kirkburn |
| 14:39.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 14:43.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ven (n=ven@dynadsl-080-228-74-009.ewetel.net) |
| 14:44.58 | Cairenn | clad|work: you want to check out your Clique thread on the Blizz forum when you get the chance, you'll be pleased. :) |
| 14:46.20 | krka_ | linkage! |
| 14:46.38 | Cairenn | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=404759&p=1&tmp=1#post404759 |
| 14:50.00 | krka_ | cool, i got some mad credz |
| 14:50.11 | Cairenn | :) |
| 14:50.32 | krka_ | (did i get the slang right? i suck at that :/ ) |
| 14:51.41 | Cairenn | other than not being sure how folks spell "credit" in that expression, looks right to me |
| 14:57.38 | krka_ | hooray |
| 15:02.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge qw` (i=qw@cm-80.111.82.094.chello.no) |
| 15:04.26 | Kirkburn | mmm, love it when programs close randomly |
| 15:04.37 | Kirkburn | I just clicked on a link and ended up here ;) |
| 15:05.06 | Cairenn | well, at least you ended up somewhere pleasant |
| 15:11.36 | Legorolo | i never fail to be amased by the lack of intelligence displayed by forum goers... |
| 15:12.12 | Legorolo | So Blizzard brings down 70% of realms for 24 hours, with 15 hours notice. That I can live with. People whine about it, understandable, that I can live with too. |
| 15:12.32 | Legorolo | Blizzard wipes the friends lists of all characters on select realms, again with 15 hours notice. |
| 15:12.57 | Legorolo | Although I beleive it's unaccaptable to work like that, I can live with it. I do however object to the lack of clear prior communication. |
| 15:13.07 | Legorolo | (the only communication having taken place as a stickied forum post) |
| 15:13.24 | Wobin | er |
| 15:13.29 | Wobin | that's really not enough =P |
| 15:13.39 | Legorolo | What I however can't even begin to comprehend is why people call me a whiner when i object to the 15 hours notice of wiping friends' lists. |
| 15:13.47 | Wobin | as in, I've never checked the forums for stuff like that |
| 15:14.03 | Wobin | And they've never notified me of the possiblity of that occurring |
| 15:14.06 | Legorolo | Blizzard majorly messed up communicating this thing, imo. It might just be my opinion. |
| 15:14.22 | Wobin | I would have liked at least a day |
| 15:14.32 | Legorolo | But why people can't see that this *is* a genuine problem for a few people, I don't understand. |
| 15:14.51 | Legorolo | Not to mention some other brilliant thread. |
| 15:14.51 | krka_ | friends suck! why have them? |
| 15:14.52 | Wobin | Cause like... if the warning happened at say... 2am my time, 15hrs is not long enough for me to go to work and come back and save my friends list |
| 15:15.17 | krka_ | or for people to have time to reactivate their accounts |
| 15:15.18 | Legorolo | A person posts complaining that they have organised raids, they take time off work to play, so 15 hours notice is not enough. |
| 15:15.23 | Legorolo | and he gets called a whiner |
| 15:15.42 | Legorolo | One thing is if people complain at Blizzard. |
| 15:15.54 | Legorolo | It's a completely different thing when people can't see that others have a legitimate complaint, and they call them whiners |
| 15:16.07 | krka_ | stop whining already lego :/ |
| 15:16.10 | Legorolo | hehe |
| 15:16.18 | krka_ | you fill up my xchat history |
| 15:16.18 | Legorolo | i am whining about whiners |
| 15:16.21 | Legorolo | does that include me? |
| 15:16.24 | krka_ | yes |
| 15:16.27 | Legorolo | damn |
| 15:16.31 | Cide | bleh, tipbuddy is annoying |
| 15:16.42 | Legorolo | you don't say.. |
| 15:16.44 | Cide | it doesn't support displaying tooltips for parents without a name |
| 15:16.57 | krka_ | heh |
| 15:17.02 | krka_ | that's natural |
| 15:17.04 | Legorolo | especially because of the amount of headaches they caused when writing EquipCompare :) |
| 15:17.04 | Wobin | self referential whining =) |
| 15:17.17 | krka_ | i feel the same about other movement / syntax addons |
| 15:17.17 | Legorolo | hehe |
| 15:17.19 | Cide | so now I need to name this object, or else I'll get lots of people telling me it's broken |
| 15:17.30 | krka_ | i did manage to get a bugfix into DefendYourself actually |
| 15:17.31 | krka_ | yay me |
| 15:17.43 | Legorolo | well i had tons of incompatiblity issues with EC and tooltip modifiers, and I had to fix it by making EC as robust and resilient as possible |
| 15:17.47 | Legorolo | you can't trust other authors :) |
| 15:18.01 | krka_ | true, but why care? |
| 15:18.13 | krka_ | i simply don't run addons that are broken |
| 15:18.21 | Legorolo | because people do use tooltip modifiers, and i do want my AddOn to run for as many people as possible |
| 15:18.36 | Cairenn | <3 EC, can't imagine playing without it |
| 15:18.36 | Legorolo | one of those conflicting tooltip modifiers was Auctioneer |
| 15:18.39 | krka_ | tell your users to complain where appropiate :) |
| 15:18.50 | Legorolo | i can't quite ignore that one now, can i, and make something incompatible ;-) |
| 15:19.02 | krka_ | yeah, EquipCompare really rocks for low level gear selection |
| 15:19.12 | krka_ | and for low level instances |
| 15:19.20 | Legorolo | krka, i had an absolutely wonderful issue to debug at some point.. |
| 15:19.30 | krka_ | you instantly know if you should need or greed |
| 15:19.34 | Legorolo | the issue required no less than 4 AddOns (plus their 3 dependencies) to reproduce |
| 15:19.40 | Legorolo | turn any one of the four off, and the bug is gone |
| 15:19.50 | Legorolo | yeah i find it mostly useful for the N/G rolls |
| 15:19.57 | Beladona | I still think the tooltip system needs a serious rewrite |
| 15:20.12 | Legorolo | that timer in the roll window is nowhere near enough, especially when someone combat loots |
| 15:20.19 | Legorolo | without EC i wouldn't be able to decide quickly enough |
| 15:20.22 | Legorolo | (i'm a slow decision maker) |
| 15:20.25 | krka_ | same |
| 15:20.36 | Cairenn | hey .. Beladona ... where you been? dun see you in game lately |
| 15:20.39 | Beladona | I am actually looking to create my own custom tooltips that allow images and everything |
| 15:20.42 | Cairenn | (not that I'll be on until late today) |
| 15:20.57 | Beladona | honestly? I have been hooked on that Cabal online |
| 15:21.00 | Legorolo | will i have to make EC work with that, Beladona? |
| 15:21.01 | Beladona | I can't stop playing it |
| 15:21.08 | Cairenn | =/ |
| 15:21.19 | Beladona | no Lego |
| 15:21.23 | Legorolo | ;-) |
| 15:21.26 | Beladona | it would be a use it or not kinda thing |
| 15:21.33 | Beladona | it wouldn't "replace" the default tooltips |
| 15:21.35 | Cairenn | well, long as you're having fun, s'all that matters |
| 15:21.40 | krka_ | addon interaction is always a bitch |
| 15:21.46 | Legorolo | yah |
| 15:21.54 | Legorolo | and tooltips used to be one of the craziest things in the UI |
| 15:21.56 | krka_ | i suspect FAIAP breaks stuff |
| 15:22.08 | Legorolo | i'd say 2nd most annoying thing is dropdowns |
| 15:22.13 | Beladona | Cairenn: I will be back. I am just beta testing, and having fun doing it. But I can't see myself paying for more than one online game |
| 15:22.16 | Legorolo | worldmap stuff comes close too |
| 15:22.23 | Beladona | and wow stays |
| 15:22.31 | krka_ | or more truthfully, might break stuff, if they fiddle with the same editboxes |
| 15:22.47 | Legorolo | krka: FAIAP has a nieche market, i don't see it being a problem |
| 15:22.56 | krka_ | agreed |
| 15:23.01 | Legorolo | the person can choose to use it or not, conflicts are not a major issue for you i don't think |
| 15:23.10 | krka_ | also, it doesn't take over other addons forcefully |
| 15:23.19 | Legorolo | yeah |
| 15:23.26 | Legorolo | hehe, i remember a while back, when |
| 15:23.29 | Mikk1 | Legorolo: here now |
| 15:23.30 | Beladona | repalcing or otherwise rewriting default frames is a touchy thing to do |
| 15:23.38 | Beladona | no matter how you look at it |
| 15:23.42 | Legorolo | Norganna was working on EnhTooltip for the Auctioneer suite |
| 15:23.45 | Beladona | it is bound to break another addon |
| 15:23.47 | Beladona | eventually |
| 15:23.58 | Legorolo | He added that extra tooltip below the gametooltip |
| 15:24.23 | Legorolo | lo and behold, he found that if it's wider then the original GameTooltip, it can overlap at the sides with the comparison tooltips EC was showing |
| 15:24.35 | krka_ | i hooked GetText / SetText of editboxes to strip out coloring and replacing | with || and such stuff :P |
| 15:24.46 | Legorolo | so he went along and put in a lil' code in Auctioneer that nudges EC's tooltips out of the way... rather rudely |
| 15:24.57 | krka_ | heh |
| 15:25.04 | Legorolo | now given how popular both AddOns are.. |
| 15:25.09 | Legorolo | i wasn't too thrilled |
| 15:25.16 | krka_ | that's why i don't do popular stuff! |
| 15:25.17 | Legorolo | luckily, we could work it out and come to a common solution :) |
| 15:25.31 | Legorolo | so now they play nicely |
| 15:26.14 | krka_ | i've mostly dropped GRAB btw, if anyone cares, too much boring gui work |
| 15:26.26 | Legorolo | krka: if i had time, i'd love to work on the gui for you :( |
| 15:26.37 | krka_ | thinking of doing an actionpage chooser instead |
| 15:26.50 | krka_ | me neither |
| 15:26.56 | krka_ | also, i dont have wow currently |
| 15:26.57 | Legorolo | krka, you modest person again.. |
| 15:27.00 | Legorolo | don't do popular stuff? |
| 15:27.02 | Legorolo | AT? hello? |
| 15:27.03 | Legorolo | :) |
| 15:27.13 | krka_ | recently, i mean |
| 15:27.27 | krka_ | as in, the previous 12 months |
| 15:29.24 | krka_ | hm, i meant to say most recent instead of previous |
| 15:29.29 | zenzelezz | GRAB? |
| 15:29.48 | krka_ | Game Reactive Action Buttons |
| 15:30.32 | krka_ | basically normal action buttons, that contains many spells / items at once but only showing the one you want it to show |
| 15:31.51 | Mikk1 | Doesn't flexbar do stuff like that already? |
| 15:32.05 | Mikk1 | Of course, I could never wrap my head around flexbar |
| 15:32.26 | Cairenn | even if it does, so what? nothing says someone else can't make something that does something similar ;) |
| 15:32.38 | Legorolo | competition, hurray! |
| 15:32.50 | Mikk1 | ah pardon. didn't mean it like that. I just wanted to understand. |
| 15:33.00 | Legorolo | Cairenn: do you always stay completely impartial about Blizz's actions ;-) |
| 15:33.06 | Legorolo | i mean |
| 15:33.08 | Cairenn | Legorolo: no |
| 15:33.16 | Legorolo | i know you are an industry figure, hence you have to watch what you say |
| 15:33.18 | Cairenn | actually, I never do |
| 15:33.21 | Legorolo | but at leat in here, you can be "one of us" |
| 15:33.23 | Legorolo | :-) |
| 15:33.46 | Cairenn | I just don't let folks know what I think, most of the time |
| 15:33.51 | Legorolo | ok that's fair enough |
| 15:34.00 | Cairenn | unless I feel *really* strongly about something |
| 15:34.05 | Legorolo | opinionated but tight lipped |
| 15:34.18 | Cairenn | and Legorolo, this is one of the *last* places I can open my yap |
| 15:34.21 | Legorolo | i'm opinionated and way too loose lipped |
| 15:34.24 | Legorolo | is it? |
| 15:34.28 | Legorolo | i'm sad to hear that :( |
| 15:34.37 | Legorolo | i'd have thought this is a cozy corner |
| 15:34.42 | Legorolo | is it because it gets logged? |
| 15:34.47 | MoonWolf | only slouken come here, from time to time. |
| 15:34.52 | MoonWolf | purl logs everything. |
| 15:34.56 | Legorolo | ~logs |
| 15:34.59 | purl | apt/ibot/jbot/purl all log to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz, or updated "nightly" |
| 15:35.10 | Cairenn | think about it |
| 15:35.13 | krka_ | the difference between flexbar and grab is that flexbar used game events and weird custom syntax to control it, grab uses pure lua |
| 15:35.22 | Cairenn | how many people are in here at any given time? |
| 15:35.23 | krka_ | which means you could do anything |
| 15:35.29 | MoonWolf | 40 minumum |
| 15:35.33 | MoonWolf | 100 or more at times. |
| 15:35.46 | Cairenn | lol, I've never seen 100 in here, would be nice though |
| 15:35.57 | MoonWolf | i think i saw 100 at 1.10 |
| 15:36.06 | MoonWolf | might be mistaken. |
| 15:36.07 | Cairenn | but really, I'm as much or more PR here as anywhere else |
| 15:36.11 | Mikk1 | Ya, there's probably ~10ish regulars that couldn't care less what anyone said one way or another. Lots of lurkers though =) |
| 15:36.24 | Cairenn | Mikk1's got it in one |
| 15:36.26 | krka_ | yeah like that annoying krka |
| 15:36.32 | krka_ | hasn't said a thing today |
| 15:36.33 | MoonWolf | lol |
| 15:36.35 | krka_ | stole my nick too |
| 15:36.42 | Cairenn | that krka is an annoying little shit |
| 15:36.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [Wobin] (n=Wobin@221.221.24.73) |
| 15:36.54 | MoonWolf | we should reg krka, and ghost him when he comes back. |
| 15:38.02 | Kirkburn | such a tease :) |
| 15:38.10 | Legorolo | mm, ok i'm a little slow on this one.. could you spell it out for me? |
| 15:38.10 | krka|work | wtf? stupid cair, i knew it all along :( ignore it is |
| 15:38.16 | Legorolo | maybe Mikk1 can :) |
| 15:38.23 | Cairenn | Kirkburn: baby, you have *no* idea ;) |
| 15:38.45 | Kirkburn | I'm okay with that :) |
| 15:38.55 | Cairenn | :p |
| 15:38.56 | krka|work | okay with what? |
| 15:39.02 | zenzelezz | lies, we demand proof! |
| 15:39.25 | krka|work | you've all become incoherent :( |
| 15:39.27 | Cairenn | we guys, much as I enjoy flirting, time for me to head out ... |
| 15:39.29 | Cairenn | later all |
| 15:40.36 | Cairenn|afk | we = well* |
| 15:40.53 | krka|work | hah! that won't save you! now we all know you're a guy! |
| 15:42.06 | krka|work | "we guys", doesn't get more obvious |
| 15:42.47 | zenzelezz | yes, and all the males playing female character, calling themselves girls, are also really girls |
| 15:42.56 | zenzelezz | cause people don't lie on the intarweb |
| 15:42.56 | Cide | o_O |
| 15:43.02 | krka|work | nice trickery with mirrors and fog, but i can't be fooled |
| 15:46.27 | Cairenn|afk | You trust Iriel or Slouken? Ask them, they can verify I'm 100% female. |
| 15:47.11 | Cide | I can't figure out why my fonstring which inherits ChatFontNormal isn't colored white... |
| 15:47.24 | Cide | I've tried pretty much everything but it doesn't want to be white! |
| 15:47.37 | Kirkburn | zomg |
| 15:47.45 | Legorolo | krka: whilst i can't verify that the picture isn't fake or that it really does depict Cairenn, i have seen photos that are alleged to be her |
| 15:47.46 | Cide | seriously, it's weird |
| 15:47.50 | Legorolo | then again, i might be lying too |
| 15:48.08 | Kirkburn | Well, does the client actually respect fonts.xml definition? |
| 15:48.09 | krka|work | there is no trust on the internet |
| 15:49.28 | Kirkburn | Bah, I dunno ... I will say that the size setting of ChatFontNormal seems to mean nothing whatsoever |
| 15:49.47 | Legorolo | Speaking of Fonts, i have the following question: if an LOD addon lists ..\..\Fonts.xml in its toc, will the Font defintions (e.g. GameFontNormal) be reloaded? Will they overwrite the currently active definitions? |
| 15:49.54 | Kirkburn | yes |
| 15:50.05 | Legorolo | yes to which one ;-) |
| 15:50.20 | Kirkburn | there's a difference?? |
| 15:50.56 | Kirkburn | Say ClearFont loaded, then a LoD addon with that in the toc loads, it'll go back to normal fonts |
| 15:51.17 | Kirkburn | It doesn't need to be in the toc any more though, apparently |
| 15:51.39 | Legorolo | ok, the reason why i was asking is that |
| 15:51.46 | Cide | yep, since virtual definitions are kept around |
| 15:51.46 | Legorolo | with Frame definitions, the one that comes later gets ignored |
| 15:51.55 | Legorolo | i am not talking virtuals here |
| 15:52.06 | Legorolo | font objects in Fonts.xml are not virtual anymore, are they? |
| 15:52.14 | Cide | nope |
| 15:52.16 | Legorolo | they do define real existing Font-type Lua objects |
| 15:52.34 | Cide | well, they are virtual (defined virtual="true"), but you can access them through the global table |
| 15:52.36 | Legorolo | so with Frames, if you try and load one that already exists under that name, then the old one stays |
| 15:52.52 | Cide | so I guess they aren't virtual, in a way |
| 15:52.56 | Legorolo | i beleive Iriel at one point pointed out that the virtual attrib on the Font definitions in Fonts.xml is redundant, and has no effect |
| 15:53.04 | Cide | ah, makes sense |
| 15:53.04 | Legorolo | he had to rewrite his parser to cope with this |
| 15:53.17 | Legorolo | anyway, so |
| 15:53.22 | Legorolo | if for Frames the existing one stays, |
| 15:53.29 | Legorolo | does this mean that Fonts behave differently from Frames? |
| 15:53.35 | Legorolo | can we conclude that? |
| 15:53.53 | krka|work | hm, time to run i think |
| 15:54.09 | Cide | I haven't checked, but if the old one stays, then I would guess so, yes |
| 15:54.20 | Cide | (maybe a secret meaning with the virtual attribute for fonts?!) |
| 15:54.25 | Cide | the plot thickens... |
| 15:55.27 | Cide | I wonder if this thing has to do with the font being virtually inherited and then dynamically created |
| 15:55.31 | Legorolo | i really ought to play around with Fonts at some point.. |
| 15:55.38 | Legorolo | i know little to nothing of their inheritance etc. |
| 15:55.46 | Cide | seeing as I can't figure out why the font stays gold colored |
| 15:56.21 | Legorolo | Cide, have you tried specifying your own custom Font object, which inherits ChatFontNormal |
| 15:56.28 | Legorolo | and feeding that object to the FontString instead? |
| 15:56.37 | Cide | yes |
| 15:56.40 | Legorolo | i have no idea if this would make any difference |
| 15:56.59 | Cide | I've also tried not inheriting a font at all, and defining all the attributes |
| 15:57.22 | Cide | I just tried :SetFontObject(ChatFontNormal) manually, and it worked just fine |
| 15:58.06 | Cide | but that's a terrible fix, since it would mean I have to hardcode it to use ChatFontNormal |
| 15:59.03 | Legorolo | hmm |
| 15:59.17 | Legorolo | in your FontString, how are you inheriting ChatFontNormal? |
| 15:59.21 | Legorolo | do you use inherits= or font= |
| 15:59.25 | Cide | inherits |
| 15:59.29 | Legorolo | try fonts= instead |
| 15:59.34 | Legorolo | i mean font= |
| 16:00.08 | Cide | nope |
| 16:00.18 | Legorolo | :/ |
| 16:00.29 | Beladona | what were you trying to do specifically? |
| 16:00.38 | Legorolo | i give up |
| 16:00.42 | Kirkburn | why that one specifically? |
| 16:00.44 | Legorolo | you prbably need Iriel |
| 16:00.45 | Cide | I have a virtual object defined in xml |
| 16:01.02 | Legorolo | is the FontString dynamically created, or XML? |
| 16:01.05 | Cide | which I then dynamically create with CreateFrame with inheritance |
| 16:01.07 | Cide | XML |
| 16:01.15 | Legorolo | could you pastebin the relevant XML/Lua? |
| 16:01.19 | Cide | sure, sec |
| 16:01.19 | Legorolo | maybe more eyes see better.. |
| 16:01.22 | Beladona | interesting |
| 16:01.25 | Legorolo | although i doubt i will spot anything if you have tried |
| 16:01.40 | Beladona | never tried creating a virtual and then dynamically creating from it |
| 16:01.50 | Beladona | so not sure if there are any special quirks |
| 16:02.01 | Legorolo | should work since 1.11, but since it's all so knew, it might be buggy |
| 16:02.10 | Legorolo | and it went on the PTR late |
| 16:02.16 | Beladona | true |
| 16:02.34 | Cide | http://pastecode.com/775 |
| 16:02.50 | Beladona | I do have a project where I may need to do what you are talking about though |
| 16:02.57 | Beladona | so it would be worth me playing with |
| 16:03.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@65-102-153-94.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 16:03.43 | Beladona | brb, lunch |
| 16:03.50 | Cide | also tried inherits="ChatFontNormal", defining <FontHeight>/<Shadow>/etc manually, etc |
| 16:06.16 | Kirkburn | Why do you need to use ChatFontNormal though? |
| 16:06.25 | Cide | because I want it white |
| 16:06.46 | Kirkburn | Can't you just define it as white or use another white font? |
| 16:06.55 | Cide | that's what I tried earlier |
| 16:07.07 | Cide | it always uses the same font (GameFontNormal from the looks of it) |
| 16:07.52 | Legorolo | Cide, it might be worth as a cross-check to have a non-virtual versino of that button |
| 16:08.07 | Legorolo | and see if that one ends up white or not |
| 16:08.15 | Cide | kind of tricky, heh |
| 16:08.22 | Legorolo | i figured that much |
| 16:08.22 | Cide | well, nevermind |
| 16:08.34 | Cide | I'll just parent it to uiparent instead of the dynamically created menu |
| 16:08.34 | Legorolo | just for debug purposes, make a non-virtual one, add one of those to your menu and see what happens |
| 16:08.39 | Legorolo | that works |
| 16:08.45 | Legorolo | yeah uiparent sounds cool |
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| 16:09.40 | Cide | hm, no... |
| 16:09.44 | Cide | same color |
| 16:09.51 | Cide | that's mind boggling |
| 16:10.02 | JoshBorke | hello :-) |
| 16:10.18 | Dagen | Howdy |
| 16:13.46 | Cide | can't get it to display white, heh |
| 16:13.48 | Dagen | lol I feel like such a noob with LUA, I keep leaving off stuff like 'then' after my 'if' statements..sigh |
| 16:14.23 | Cide | http://pastecode.com/777 |
| 16:16.22 | JoshBorke | ... |
| 16:16.42 | JoshBorke | cide, would you like me to try it? |
| 16:16.52 | Cide | go ahead, maybe I'm color blind |
| 16:17.15 | Cide | oh, wait |
| 16:17.17 | Cide | I think I get it |
| 16:17.33 | Cide | pretty sure GetRegions is playing a trick on me |
| 16:18.26 | Cide | yep. |
| 16:18.47 | JoshBorke | ko |
| 16:18.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 16:18.47 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 16:19.34 | JoshBorke | glad i could help |
| 16:20.49 | Cide | hehe :) |
| 16:21.07 | JoshBorke | it showed me a pretty checkbox in the middle of my screen with the word Test =D |
| 16:23.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=tardmrr@204.90.50.252) |
| 16:25.13 | Cide | in yellow :( |
| 16:25.23 | JoshBorke | indeed, it was yellow =D |
| 16:26.58 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Zino (n=bortas@c-9a0d70d5.09-31-6c6b7010.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 16:27.15 | Legorolo | Cide: you confused me |
| 16:27.27 | Legorolo | it's working or not ;-) |
| 16:27.30 | Cide | I inherited OptionsCheckButtonTemplate or whatever |
| 16:27.39 | Cide | which inherited UICheckButton or something |
| 16:27.49 | Cide | which defined a fontstring (GameFontNormalSmall) |
| 16:28.00 | Dagen | try inheriting from GameFontNormal.. thats what I use for my main frame's title and that is white |
| 16:28.08 | Dagen | oh wait |
| 16:28.09 | Dagen | you did |
| 16:28.11 | Cide | and that was returned from GetRegions() instead of my FontString |
| 16:28.23 | Cide | GameFontNormal is gold (1, 0.82, 0) |
| 16:28.47 | Legorolo | ha |
| 16:28.50 | Cide | Legorolo: so my fontstring worked, but it was using another fontstring |
| 16:28.51 | Legorolo | s/ha/aha/ |
| 16:29.10 | Legorolo | right, you were setting the text via GetRegions, and not via the name of the fontstring |
| 16:29.15 | Legorolo | naughty |
| 16:29.16 | Legorolo | :) |
| 16:29.28 | Legorolo | well good that you foun it |
| 16:29.56 | Cide | well, using the name I'd have to define a name for the object and the fontstring, which I didn't want to do :P |
| 16:30.09 | zenzelezz | why not? |
| 16:30.10 | Legorolo | i'm not criticising your method :) |
| 16:30.14 | JoshBorke | i <3 shackle |
| 16:30.18 | Legorolo | i am just saying, good that you got it |
| 16:30.38 | Cide | yeah |
| 16:30.58 | Cide | zenzelezz: because I store the frames in a table anyway, so no need to have global references as well |
| 16:33.00 | End | hmm, slouken is showing his existance again |
| 16:40.05 | Dagen | I'm thinking checkbuttons just cant have their color changed, heh |
| 16:40.43 | krka | home already! i rock |
| 16:43.06 | Mikk1 | Dagen: Not with SetColor |
| 16:43.14 | Mikk1 | Since they're bitmaps |
| 16:43.24 | Mikk1 | You can SetVertexColor to tweak their color scheme though |
| 16:44.11 | JoshBorke | yes you can |
| 16:44.17 | JoshBorke | er, checkbuttons! |
| 16:44.17 | JoshBorke | nvm |
| 16:44.20 | Mikk1 | =) |
| 16:44.28 | JoshBorke | but you can change the text color |
| 16:44.36 | Dagen | thats what I meant |
| 16:44.39 | Mikk1 | o |
| 16:45.07 | JoshBorke | for the blizzard inherited ones it's checkButtonText |
| 16:48.36 | JoshBorke | ok class time, bye :-) |
| 16:48.39 | Dagen | Cide were you trying to set your checkbutton's text to white right? |
| 16:48.43 | Dagen | or was I missing something |
| 16:50.54 | Dagen | cause I figured out how to do it with the code you pasted, heh |
| 16:52.46 | Dagen | I'm confused what this GetRegions thing does though |
| 16:55.45 | Mikk1 | Returns all fontstrings and textures |
| 16:55.52 | Mikk1 | iirc |
| 16:56.04 | Dagen | hmm |
| 16:56.15 | Mikk1 | things that aren't' frames |
| 16:57.12 | Dagen | wowwiki says "gets the regions of the frame"...makes you think its like the dimensions of the frame or something |
| 16:58.00 | Mikk1 | typical crap doco |
| 16:58.10 | Mikk1 | "GetRegions" -> "Gets regions" ... O RLY ? |
| 16:58.43 | Dagen | lol |
| 16:59.14 | Mikk1 | There's conflicting terminology in the widget api now |
| 16:59.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-165.handshake.de) |
| 16:59.25 | Mikk1 | Iriel is calling the old "LayoutFrame" "Region" now |
| 16:59.42 | Mikk1 | And all frames inherit "Region" |
| 16:59.58 | Mikk1 | So one would suddenly think "GetRegion()" would return child frames |
| 17:00.06 | Dagen | yeah |
| 17:00.24 | Legorolo | yes there is some confusion, but |
| 17:00.33 | Legorolo | it's caused by slouken |
| 17:00.39 | Mikk1 | ~lart Slouken |
| 17:01.21 | Mikk1 | Otoh fontstrings and textures do indeed inherit Region also |
| 17:01.23 | Dagen | trying to do something as simple as track items you loot is more complicated than it should be |
| 17:01.32 | Legorolo | you see, UI.xsd defines LayoutFrame as a type, not Region |
| 17:01.43 | Thrae | Yep Mikk1, otherwise they wouldn't be able to SetPoint, SetWidth, etc. |
| 17:02.07 | Legorolo | also, the method GetRegions() returns fontstrings and textures, not frames |
| 17:02.17 | Legorolo | however, slouken just introduced a new object type called "Region" |
| 17:02.33 | Dagen | heh |
| 17:02.37 | Thrae | GetRegions() has been around for a while though, hasn't it? |
| 17:02.40 | Mikk1 | yea |
| 17:02.43 | Dagen | wowwiki also says about regions "This is an abstract frame type which cannot actually be created." |
| 17:02.56 | Mikk1 | Dagen: you're talking to people that makes those pages =) |
| 17:03.02 | Mikk1 | We know what it says ;) |
| 17:03.02 | Dagen | I know... |
| 17:03.03 | Legorolo | it's all slouken's fault, i tell ya |
| 17:03.08 | Dagen | but, its saying its a frame type |
| 17:03.15 | Mikk1 | Ah good point there |
| 17:03.23 | Legorolo | there is a single widget known that can be created which does in fact have Region as its object type |
| 17:03.27 | Legorolo | and that's the thing called TitleRegion |
| 17:03.31 | zenzelezz | Mikk1: for those of us who haven't deep-read the wiki, that extra info can still be interesting \o/ |
| 17:03.42 | Thrae | slouken is probably just kicking himself that he named it GetRegions() |
| 17:03.45 | Dagen | yeah, sorry this is all new to me :P |
| 17:03.57 | Dagen | so I'm like... absorbing as much as I can :) |
| 17:04.15 | Legorolo | the thing is, |
| 17:04.26 | Legorolo | there is no API method that will allow you to create a Lua object whose type is Region |
| 17:04.27 | Thrae | Although he could have named it GetStuff() to spite us ;) |
| 17:04.34 | Legorolo | that's why Iriel put the comment there that it's an abstract type |
| 17:04.51 | Legorolo | what he means is that CreateFrame can't take "Region" as the object type |
| 17:04.52 | Mikk1 | ... except CreateTitleRegion() you mean? |
| 17:04.56 | Legorolo | yeah |
| 17:05.15 | Legorolo | the confusion is thanks to inconsistent naming in the API |
| 17:05.25 | Legorolo | and the special status of TitleRegions |
| 17:05.38 | Mikk1 | I think I'll run around in Frame:... and insert lots of little notes |
| 17:05.48 | Mikk1 | And a pointer at Slouken's behind |
| 17:05.51 | Legorolo | not to mention that the confusion is further enhanced by UI.xsd ;-) |
| 17:06.32 | Mikk1 | GetNumChildren only returns frame derivates yea? (sanity check) |
| 17:07.10 | Legorolo | should do |
| 17:07.16 | Legorolo | it enumerates the objects in <Frames> |
| 17:07.35 | Legorolo | and those objects later connected to the widget in question via SetParent |
| 17:07.42 | Mikk1 | eep |
| 17:07.45 | Legorolo | (this last one i'm not sure about, but sould do) |
| 17:07.52 | Mikk1 | yea |
| 17:08.05 | Legorolo | alhtough.. |
| 17:08.06 | Legorolo | hmm |
| 17:08.08 | Legorolo | i am not really sure now |
| 17:08.10 | Legorolo | because, you see |
| 17:08.15 | Legorolo | a texture or a fontstring also has a parent |
| 17:08.21 | Legorolo | so there is a parent-child relationship |
| 17:08.29 | Mikk1 | myeah but they also live in a layer |
| 17:08.36 | Mikk1 | though that's not precisely a parent i suppose |
| 17:08.40 | Legorolo | but afaik GetNumChildren only enumerates the <Frames> |
| 17:08.40 | Mikk1 | as far as the UI is concerned |
| 17:08.49 | Legorolo | so, again, it's confusing |
| 17:09.00 | Mikk1 | it looks like a parent in xml but i suppose it's really more of an attribute-come-container-tag |
| 17:09.12 | Legorolo | well except you can call SetParent on textures |
| 17:09.16 | Mikk1 | o.O |
| 17:09.17 | Legorolo | what happens then? :) |
| 17:09.23 | Mikk1 | you move it to another fram |
| 17:09.23 | Mikk1 | e |
| 17:09.49 | Mikk1 | not another layer |
| 17:10.02 | Legorolo | not even that is true afaik |
| 17:10.10 | Legorolo | you see, parenting is used for several, different functions |
| 17:10.16 | Legorolo | first, in XML, it's used for the $parent |
| 17:10.22 | Legorolo | second, in Lua, it's used for anchoring |
| 17:10.30 | Legorolo | and things like scale inheritance |
| 17:10.32 | Mikk1 | meep |
| 17:10.42 | Mikk1 | it's only used for anchoring unless something specifies otherwise |
| 17:10.46 | Legorolo | so the "parent-child" relationship, and is meaning is very illdefined |
| 17:10.53 | Mikk1 | it's visibility, alpha and scaling |
| 17:10.56 | Mikk1 | Lua side |
| 17:11.00 | Legorolo | yeah |
| 17:11.12 | Legorolo | so i don't know what happens to GetNumChildren after a SetParent |
| 17:11.27 | Mikk1 | assume any sane levels of sanity it'd reflect what's actually going on in the UI |
| 17:11.33 | Mikk1 | i'd hope that the xml file is long gone by then |
| 17:11.52 | Mikk1 | that's what wowbench does anyway =) |
| 17:13.40 | Legorolo | we would need Iriel, to clear some of this up |
| 17:13.53 | Legorolo | and i'd need to do some reverse engineering to clarify some of the behaviours ;-) |
| 17:14.03 | Legorolo | and the wiki is right now in a mess :D |
| 17:14.11 | Legorolo | with regards to regions/frames/children etc. |
| 17:16.21 | Dagen | why cant the loot_slot_cleared event give you some way of knowing who looted...bleh |
| 17:16.39 | Dagen | unless there is and I just dont know about it |
| 17:16.43 | Mikk1 | urm there's a loot event that tells you that someone loots something? |
| 17:16.53 | Mikk1 | iirc? |
| 17:16.59 | Dagen | yeah... LOOT_SLOT_CLEARED does that... |
| 17:17.14 | Legorolo | Mikk1: any chance wowbench could just throw a warning on illegal <Onxxxx> handler names, but not actually error and ignore that XML file? |
| 17:17.18 | Dagen | but, it triggers even if you aren't the one who looted |
| 17:17.19 | Mikk1 | i mean the event that causes the loot message to appear in the chatlog |
| 17:17.19 | Legorolo | since that's what WoW does... |
| 17:17.30 | Dagen | oh yeah but then that means i gotta parse messages :P |
| 17:17.48 | Dagen | and theres a few problems with that |
| 17:17.54 | Mikk1 | arf |
| 17:18.05 | Mikk1 | I meant that I think there's a corresponding event to that message |
| 17:18.11 | Mikk1 | could be wrong ofc |
| 17:18.37 | Dagen | hmm |
| 17:18.56 | Dagen | well, my thought is checking two events |
| 17:19.01 | Mikk1 | Legorolo: You sure that's not a case sensitivity problem there? I've been meaning to fix that |
| 17:19.12 | Dagen | LOOT_SLOT_CLEARED and BAG_UPDATE |
| 17:19.35 | Mikk1 | Dagen: Do you want to track _your_ loot, or all loot? |
| 17:19.40 | Dagen | just mine |
| 17:19.46 | Mikk1 | Hook the lootbutton code |
| 17:19.49 | Mikk1 | Ohwait |
| 17:19.54 | Mikk1 | That doesn't catch shiftclick |
| 17:19.54 | Mikk1 | nm me |
| 17:20.22 | Mikk1 | Seriously though there's addons out there that do this |
| 17:20.25 | Mikk1 | Just steal ideas from them =) |
| 17:20.28 | Dagen | just saying it would be nice if LOOT_SLOT_CLEARED had an extra argument passed or something that says who looted it :P |
| 17:20.39 | Dagen | this way works and all |
| 17:21.10 | Dagen | it just seems a tad overcomplicated to do something so simple |
| 17:21.16 | Mikk1 | Run EventWatcher while looting something |
| 17:21.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (n=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
| 17:21.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=kcummins@proxy-ce1.disney.com) |
| 17:22.14 | Dagen | so am I mistaken or...is there no really good guild bank mods out there? |
| 17:22.29 | Mikk1 | Or just use the nice new .RegisterAllEvents() as a debug thingy in your code |
| 17:22.38 | Dagen | cause I'd to be working on this and find there's something just like it already out :P |
| 17:22.41 | Kaso | Raidbanker + EQDKP Plugin work well Dagen but its not really an addon |
| 17:22.51 | Legorolo | btw Mikk1, how substantial do you want commits to be? |
| 17:22.58 | Dagen | well, what I'm working on is like..half-addon, half-application |
| 17:22.58 | Legorolo | is it ok to send in regular one liners? |
| 17:23.28 | Legorolo | i mean, i'd find a bug, fix it (it's a one-line) fix, then off i go |
| 17:23.33 | Legorolo | later i come back and find another one etc. |
| 17:23.42 | Legorolo | is that ok if i commit each time |
| 17:24.48 | Dagen | one half of my guild bank mod is a C# application that has a mysql database backend.. and it stores item info, banker info and stuff to keep track of who has what. |
| 17:25.22 | Dagen | then the ingame addon part is going to track looted items and save all the relevant info |
| 17:25.38 | Dagen | plus some searching features and stuff too probably |
| 17:26.32 | Mikk1 | Legorolo: i'm sending in lots of oneliners |
| 17:26.38 | Dagen | people will be able to import items from the addon into the database so you can see what all is there |
| 17:27.07 | Dagen | and you can export items from the database so you can view/search/edit/whatever the guild bank from in the game |
| 17:27.26 | Mikk1 | Nice idea. I'm going to steal that for my DKP addon. |
| 17:27.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge snurre (n=snurre@AVelizy-153-1-40-164.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:27.39 | Dagen | lol, well I've got half of it done |
| 17:28.01 | Mikk1 | Except I don't use a database backend. I keep it all in RAM and will now do automagic online sync of it all =) |
| 17:28.09 | Dagen | the C# app that is the front end to the database is finished, for the most part |
| 17:28.10 | Mikk1 | Flood fill sync ftw! |
| 17:28.26 | Dagen | I just have to write the import/export features |
| 17:28.42 | Dagen | but I cant do that until the MOD portion is finished |
| 17:29.55 | Dagen | only sucky thing with this will be that you need to run a mysql server |
| 17:30.10 | Dagen | but, meh..its free :P |
| 17:30.18 | Mikk1 | Rewrite it with a plain file backend then =) |
| 17:30.22 | Mikk1 | faster =P |
| 17:31.03 | Dagen | it wasnt too bad actually, I never did database programming before this |
| 17:31.12 | Dagen | and I got things working pretty quickly |
| 17:31.25 | Mikk1 | I've done too many SQL projects at work. And they invariably rear up and bite me in the arse. |
| 17:31.34 | Mikk1 | Restructuring the data is a bloody horror. |
| 17:31.51 | Mikk1 | Plaintext file ftw! |
| 17:32.04 | Dagen | yeah, but this is more than likely much simpler than anything you'd see in corporate use :P |
| 17:32.11 | Thrae | Deeevvvvlaaaaa |
| 17:32.20 | Thrae | I need a ui.worldofwar admin. |
| 17:32.35 | Dagen | my database is just 3 tables |
| 17:32.43 | Mikk1 | Dagen: Still no fun trying to manipulate a database that's not on your computer via scripts. |
| 17:33.02 | Mikk1 | Give it three weeks and you'll have a "urmm.. can we add <foo>?" |
| 17:33.43 | Dagen | oh I'm sure I'll be asked to add a million things to it |
| 17:34.00 | Thrae | Tain: SVN Update stopping on branches\BagBoy\Ratbert_CP |
| 17:34.14 | Dagen | I'm probably gonna have to say "no" to most of it because I want to keep it simple and to the point..this is already pretty ambitious for a single addon |
| 17:34.28 | Thrae | Whoops. |
| 17:35.19 | Dagen | I was doing this as a learning experience for C# :P |
| 17:35.47 | Thrae | Gahhhh! C#! *stabs self* |
| 17:35.58 | Dagen | dude, I think C# is awesome |
| 17:36.03 | Dagen | I love it |
| 17:36.51 | Dagen | I'm primarily a C++ programmer, but after learning this.. I think I'm a convert |
| 17:37.05 | Wobin | I like C# |
| 17:38.12 | Tain | C# is very nice, it just has the stigma of being associated with MS, but don't hold that against it. |
| 17:38.20 | Dagen | yeah I didnt even care about LUA or WoW MOD development much.. I was actually having someone else do this part, but he's kind of lost interest in it so I'm picking it up :/ |
| 17:38.23 | Mikk1 | Mmm I'm primarily an assembly/C programmer but I have to say that lately I'm just leaning towards "use the best tool". Not everything has to be blitzingly fast. |
| 17:38.29 | Mikk1 | Except I still hate C# for religious reasons. |
| 17:38.36 | Thrae | C# is fine if your goal is to only develop for Windows. |
| 17:38.44 | Wobin | indeed |
| 17:39.06 | Wobin | or rather, for windows machines |
| 17:39.17 | Dagen | right, for anything else its probably not the best language |
| 17:39.26 | Thrae | I don't like to be narrowed down like that. C++ for binaries, Java for anything else. |
| 17:39.46 | Dagen | Java is just...meh to me |
| 17:39.58 | Dagen | I dunno :P |
| 17:40.08 | Thrae | Hold on, I think a computer is about to explode in my house. |
| 17:40.26 | Thrae | No, that was the air conditioner, thankfully. |
| 17:40.38 | Thrae | Maybe a bird's stuck in it or something. |
| 17:40.53 | Wobin | I don't like java =( |
| 17:40.58 | Wobin | I find it too messy |
| 17:41.08 | Thrae | You mean too unlike C? |
| 17:41.11 | Wobin | but then again, that could be due to horrible university experiences |
| 17:41.27 | Wobin | I recall we had to write a lift control system in java |
| 17:42.00 | Wobin | (I honestly think they used some students programs in the lifts at uni.... scary scary things they were...) |
| 17:42.06 | Dagen | my java experience is pretty limited... most I've really worked with it is using J2ME (which is pretty scaled down) for cell phones |
| 17:42.16 | Thrae | Mikk1: Hence why I said "C++ for binaries". |
| 17:42.30 | Thrae | You code binaries when you want things fast, otherwise Java's fine. |
| 17:42.39 | Mikk1 | I don't get how it can be so laggy compared to interpreted scripts though |
| 17:42.45 | Mikk1 | I mean.. it's precompiled bytecode ffs |
| 17:43.12 | Thrae | Mikk1: Well-coded Java can get close to native speed. |
| 17:43.26 | Dagen | yeah, there's a lot of bad Java programmers out there :P |
| 17:43.29 | Wobin | alas |
| 17:43.30 | Thrae | But a lot of Java programmers do stuff like Include Every Library Under The Sun. |
| 17:43.32 | Wobin | well coded java =P |
| 17:43.36 | End | are you implying well coded java doesn't exist? |
| 17:43.43 | Mikk1 | Thrae: probably a good point there |
| 17:43.44 | Wobin | I'm implying it's very hard to find |
| 17:43.56 | Wobin | Or is that Every Library Under Sun? |
| 17:44.08 | Dagen | I've seen some Java programs that run really quick like a normal compiled binary |
| 17:44.11 | Wobin | (badoom, ticsh! |
| 17:44.16 | Dagen | not just simple stuff either |
| 17:44.18 | Thrae | I'm not implying well-coded Java doesn't exist, just go to EFNet #java |
| 17:44.20 | Tain | Actually I have to admit, as long as you're not doing production systems, you can do a lot with Mono and C#. |
| 17:44.25 | Thrae | The ops there are gurus. |
| 17:44.38 | Dagen | Java is just really easy to write inefficient code in |
| 17:44.58 | wereHamster | .. any SQL gurus here? |
| 17:45.05 | Thrae | Dagen: The same could be said about ANY language, unless you start taking away the freedoms of the programmer. |
| 17:45.32 | Tain | Down with freedoms! |
| 17:45.33 | Thrae | I'd say it's only a LITTLE bit easier to write inefficient code in Java then C++. |
| 17:45.36 | Dagen | well, you could write inefficient C code, but it'll still run decently fast |
| 17:45.43 | Dagen | usually |
| 17:45.45 | End | sort of |
| 17:46.09 | Thrae | Dagen: Except the backend of Java is written in extremely well-optimized, extremely efficient code, mostly in C. |
| 17:46.20 | krka | whoa, i also had to do a lift control system |
| 17:46.27 | krka | for a parallell processing class |
| 17:46.27 | Thrae | Well, on most platforms anyway. Not sure about mobile platforms, etc. |
| 17:46.27 | Dagen | yeah, I know.. and its not the backend slowing down the code |
| 17:46.33 | Dagen | its people using libraries the wrong way |
| 17:47.09 | Dagen | there can be a lot of overhead if you're not careful, but in languages like C and C++ the components you work with tend to be a lot simpler |
| 17:47.12 | Thrae | Well, consider this. People can use an already made sort and search algorithmn in Java rather then making their own. |
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| 17:47.16 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Legorolo (n=Legorol@tcmpc43.phy.cam.ac.uk) |
| 17:47.39 | krka | java gets a bad reputation... it's just kinda bad for client gui stuff |
| 17:47.44 | Thrae | But in C/C++, you generally need to implement you own. |
| 17:48.03 | krka | C++ has STD |
| 17:48.07 | Thrae | Searching and sorting is done a lot with any kind of program. Now imagine if the programmer used iterative. |
| 17:48.07 | krka | err, STL i mean |
| 17:48.12 | Dagen | lol |
| 17:48.12 | Mikk1 | arf STL |
| 17:48.20 | krka | STL is the shit |
| 17:48.35 | Dagen | only thing I will say about C/C++ is...the string functions BLOW |
| 17:48.47 | krka | really? |
| 17:48.49 | Dagen | I hate doing any kind of string manipulation in C/C++ |
| 17:48.53 | krka | C++ strings are pretty good, imo |
| 17:48.55 | Dagen | its always a pain |
| 17:49.06 | Thrae | I don't code in C++, I code in C and make up my own string functions. |
| 17:49.24 | Dagen | well thats the thing.. |
| 17:49.33 | Tain | I pretend strings don't exist. |
| 17:49.39 | Mikk1 | C string functions rock |
| 17:49.44 | Mikk1 | If you use my libs anyway =) |
| 17:49.45 | Dagen | if you want to do any string manipulation, you have to code your own functions for it |
| 17:49.57 | Dagen | or find another library I guess |
| 17:50.01 | krka | what are you talking about? C++ STL strings rock |
| 17:50.12 | Tain | What's wrong with an array of char as strings! |
| 17:50.25 | Mikk1 | Buffer overruns for one =P |
| 17:50.28 | Thrae | And that's why Java is good. |
| 17:50.43 | Thrae | Java provides all sorts of stuff in well-optimized, easy to understand formats. |
| 17:50.52 | Thrae | With C++ you need to implement a ton of stuff yourself. |
| 17:50.55 | Tain | Well sure, but so does LOGO. |
| 17:51.11 | krka | STL has already implemented everything you need |
| 17:51.23 | Mikk1 | Yeah, tbqph, people don't know STL well enough. |
| 17:51.32 | Mikk1 | Though that's a function of its horrible format (imo) |
| 17:51.38 | Tain | Think back to the days before the STL, it was dark times. |
| 17:51.39 | krka | horrible format? |
| 17:51.45 | Thrae | I agree with new idea of colleges starting with C, then C++, then moving on to Java. |
| 17:51.55 | Mikk1 | krka: it's being a bit too OO for most people |
| 17:52.09 | Tain | It *should* be OO. |
| 17:52.14 | Mikk1 | "Returns an iterator that..." |
| 17:52.15 | Dagen | our college's Java classes was aweful |
| 17:52.18 | Mikk1 | ^ Joe programmer doesn't get that |
| 17:52.28 | Tain | There's not much of a reason to use C++ if you're not. |
| 17:52.36 | Thrae | If you're going for a Bachelor's, it makes sense to actually give these people REAL coding skills. You can't take 5 classes and expect to have really usuable skills in C++. |
| 17:52.41 | krka | c++ isn't aimed for joe programmer |
| 17:52.50 | Thrae | But you could condense enough Java knowledge into that. |
| 17:52.53 | Mikk1 | Misconception #1 about C++. Not everything has to be OO. OO is not a religion. It's a tool. |
| 17:53.03 | krka | i only had one c++ course |
| 17:53.06 | Thrae | Badly coded Java pales in comparison to badly coded C/C++, in my opinion. |
| 17:53.29 | Mikk1 | http://www.wowwiki.com/Widget_API#Frame <- I think I clarified Region vs Child now |
| 17:53.32 | Tain | It's not a misconception. C++'s main strength is OO, otherwise you're just coding in C with some extra pointers. |
| 17:53.32 | Thrae | Java forces a lot of conventions that C/C++ doesn't. |
| 17:53.42 | Tain | Or really more "pseudo OO." |
| 17:54.02 | End | C++ isn't 100% OO though |
| 17:54.03 | krka | c++'s main strength is templates :) |
| 17:54.12 | krka | it's not? |
| 17:54.18 | Dagen | no... |
| 17:54.20 | krka | you mean like Smalltalk? |
| 17:54.24 | Mikk1 | "g_szMyGlobalVar" omg omgomgomg! can't do that! nooo! need to put it in a class as a static member! otherwise it's not OO! *ptooie!* |
| 17:54.32 | End | I'd say java -is- 100% OO though :P |
| 17:54.33 | Dagen | C++ gives you the option of OO, but its not forced on you |
| 17:54.46 | krka | java doesn't force oo either |
| 17:54.46 | Dagen | you can still code C++ apps just as if they were C apps |
| 17:54.51 | Thrae | End: Not according to Allen Keys, the one who coined 'OO' ;) |
| 17:54.51 | Dagen | not sure why you would, but you could |
| 17:55.08 | End | well...ok, to clarify, java forces classes |
| 17:55.09 | Dagen | krka: it does though..everything is an object in java |
| 17:55.15 | krka | why isn't C++ 100% OO End? |
| 17:55.23 | Dagen | you cant get away from it |
| 17:55.27 | Thrae | According to Allen Keys, C++ is very NOT OO. |
| 17:55.30 | End | krka: because it doesn't have to exist on a class/object |
| 17:55.30 | Mikk1 | Allen Keys also says "When I invented Object Orientation, I did NOT have C++ in mind" |
| 17:55.32 | Tain | Not everything has to be OO, you code the best way for the job at hand. But if you're coding in C++ and NOT using any OO concepts then you're mainly coding in C. |
| 17:55.34 | krka | you can say the same thing about C++ then Dagen? |
| 17:55.49 | Tain | But C++ allows for OO concepts. |
| 17:55.57 | Kirkburn | Heh, 14 referees have been sent home from the World Cup :P http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5108722.stm |
| 17:55.58 | Dagen | no, because everything in C++ is not an object |
| 17:56.06 | Tain | It's like saying the United States is not a democracy. It isn't strictly, but it has democratic concepts. |
| 17:56.10 | Thrae | I code OO in C! |
| 17:56.15 | Mikk1 | mr Keys says the correct way to OO is to create a number object, and a plus object, and then post the plus object to the number object. |
| 17:56.25 | Thrae | I just use structs and tell people "treat this as a class". |
| 17:56.25 | krka | not following how java is more oo than c++ |
| 17:56.39 | Dagen | its not forced on you to use OO concepts in C++, its just giving you the option to do it..thats how its different from Java |
| 17:56.48 | Tain | Well Java does ah.. push the object issue more than C++. |
| 17:56.50 | Thrae | And with #defines, you can also have psuedo-templates. |
| 17:57.07 | krka | java doesn't force it either |
| 17:57.09 | End | for starters, java forces usage of classes everywhere |
| 17:57.18 | krka | you can do everything static if you want |
| 17:57.30 | Thrae | I once made a list implementation using #defines. That was fun and very complicated. |
| 17:57.38 | End | well...I consider that to still be object-like |
| 17:57.44 | Dagen | krka: all static methods even have to be in a class |
| 17:57.54 | krka | that doesn't make it OO |
| 17:58.01 | Mikk1 | Bah, that's like saying that C++ code has to be in a file |
| 17:58.07 | krka | omg it's in a class! now it's OO! |
| 17:58.19 | Tain | It's just a semantic discussion really. |
| 17:58.24 | Dagen | heh, okay.. I guess it depends how you define OO then |
| 17:58.25 | Mikk1 | Those are the best =) |
| 17:58.46 | krka | in fact, i have written many many non-OO things in java |
| 17:58.47 | Thrae | OO has been defined by so many different people so many different ways it's become a "loaded word". |
| 17:58.48 | Tain | I'd suggest Java is more "OO" because more formal traning and education in Java takes place that teaches it that way. |
| 17:59.17 | Tain | Whereas a lot of older C++ programmers learned on their own. |
| 17:59.23 | Mikk1 | I submit that since so many are taught Java in that way, they're likely to code C++ that way also =) |
| 17:59.41 | Tain | Someone learning Java today isn't as likely to use C++. |
| 17:59.52 | Dagen | well, its always been taught that you implement OO concepts through the use of classes |
| 18:00.04 | Tain | A CS student will, but a lot of other courses include Java as part of their curriculum. |
| 18:00.12 | Dagen | so that was kind of my basis on saying Java is more OO than C++ |
| 18:00.37 | Thrae | In the end, it only matters that you -try- to adhere to standard conventions while allowing your coworkers to understand WTF you're doing. |
| 18:00.49 | Tain | Screw the coworkers! |
| 18:00.50 | Mikk1 | Say that C++ allows things that are a lot less OO than Java and I'll agree with you |
| 18:00.57 | Tain | They're always inferior. |
| 18:01.04 | Dagen | but....yeah, whether java is more OO than C++ or not doesn't even really make a difference anyway |
| 18:01.07 | Thrae | If you don't care who understands your code, then use whatever way is best for YOU to understand ;) |
| 18:01.31 | Thrae | If you only need your coworkers to understand your code, then screw OO, use the best method THEY can understand. |
| 18:01.31 | Tain | Anyway I code OOASM. |
| 18:01.36 | Mikk1 | lol |
| 18:01.47 | Thrae | Tain: Did you just orgasm there? |
| 18:02.31 | Mikk1 | Anyhoo.. I'm a pretty big fan of using procedural programming for the high level functionality and OOing "types" (which is a scope that can indeed vary from project to project) |
| 18:02.31 | Tain | As much as I enjoy coding, I don't enjoy it *that* much. |
| 18:02.44 | Dagen | I love programming |
| 18:02.46 | Thrae | "OOASM" sounds like what the OO fanatics have when they look at code they consider well-made OO. |
| 18:03.01 | zenzelezz | "Aw yeah, look at that loop!" |
| 18:03.09 | Tain | My system registers are all objects. |
| 18:03.14 | Dagen | I used to do a lot of assembly coding for fun |
| 18:03.17 | Thrae | Java coders claim to have many "OOASMs" ;) |
| 18:03.19 | Mikk1 | I've heard that OO fanatics cry themselves to sleep because of the need to have a main() still. |
| 18:03.31 | zenzelezz | "Did you see the classes on that file?" |
| 18:03.37 | Tain | I think it's an unforgivable crime that more Computer Science courses don't teach Assembly. |
| 18:03.52 | Mikk1 | I agree. Should be a 101 class at least |
| 18:03.54 | Dagen | my school taught assembly, but in a horrible way |
| 18:03.58 | Tain | It needs to be in there. |
| 18:04.05 | Thrae | "That class uses multiple inheritence, one from a virtual class! ...I think I wet myself." |
| 18:04.08 | Dagen | they always use emulators for it |
| 18:04.08 | Beladona | I always hated not being able to name tables based on a table scheme in wow, which is why I like OO+Dynamic Frame creation |
| 18:04.17 | Beladona | comes in handy |
| 18:04.20 | Tain | Not even necessarily at the beginning. I think it should be a little later after you understand some things. |
| 18:04.46 | Thrae | Assembly 201 should be taught entirely in binary. |
| 18:04.54 | Mikk1 | o.O |
| 18:05.03 | Dagen | when teaching assembly language...they should put you in front of an old dinosaur computer with just DOS and an assembler and say "get to work!" |
| 18:05.05 | Mikk1 | Assembly 11001001 you mean? |
| 18:05.06 | Fanook|Zzz | assembly was a required course for my bachelors |
| 18:05.06 | zenzelezz | binary UTF-16 |
| 18:05.15 | Thrae | Haha |
| 18:05.24 | Thrae | Make it the secret class, put the name in binary! |
| 18:06.21 | krka | assembly isn't really necessary for all computer science branches |
| 18:06.24 | Dagen | I learned assembly language with my 8088 and debug...thats the best way to learn how processors work :P |
| 18:06.24 | Thrae | If you sign up for "01000001 01110011 01110011 01100101 01101101 01100010 01101100 01111001 00100000 00110010 00110000 00110001" and pass, you automatically get your Bachelor's. |
| 18:06.35 | krka | necessary to know, that is |
| 18:07.31 | End | well, you get away without knowing it |
| 18:07.31 | End | but you are probably better off knowing it |
| 18:07.31 | Tain | It's necessary to *understand* |
| 18:07.31 | Dagen | its sad that I'd actually have to help other computer science majors (like junior and senior year) clean their computers of viruses and stuff because they couldnt figure out how to do it |
| 18:07.35 | Tain | If you just want to solve a problem by placing some commands in code to do it, sure. If you want to understand what you're doing, you need it. |
| 18:07.39 | Dagen | or tell them how to upgrade their computer |
| 18:07.40 | End | ahhh yeah, that's it. it gives you understanding of how things works that you can't get otherwise. |
| 18:07.41 | Dagen | its sad |
| 18:08.07 | Tain | It's like cooking. You can follow a recipe to add baking soda without understanding why. |
| 18:08.07 | Dagen | there'd be people there that wouldnt know how to replace a hard drive |
| 18:08.16 | Thrae | "I can code an operating system, but everytime I go to google, porn sites pop up..." |
| 18:08.16 | Dagen | they have no idea what "jumpers" are |
| 18:08.17 | Tain | But if you do understand why you can change the recipe. |
| 18:09.00 | Thrae | Dagen: That's the reason a "Computer Science" degree requires Assembly. |
| 18:09.17 | Thrae | A "Computer Science" degree is basically like a general practioner, not necessarily a programmer. |
| 18:09.21 | Dagen | but thats the thing, assembly language courses in universities arent done right... |
| 18:09.32 | Dagen | at least not the one I went to |
| 18:09.32 | Thrae | s/programmer/database programmer/ |
| 18:10.01 | Thrae | My assembly classes were pretty good. University of Maryland, Baltimore County requires three. |
| 18:10.36 | Dagen | the assembly language course I took at my school used an emulator to write programs....they didnt need to know hardly anything about how the computer worked |
| 18:11.01 | Thrae | Assembly 101, Computer Architecture 301 (need to code in ASM + C), and Computer Architecture 401 (need to use VHDL to make a virtual computer) |
| 18:11.18 | Thrae | Assembly 201, sorry |
| 18:11.48 | Thrae | 401 was a really fun class, we had a fun professor. We talked about why the Pentium 4 was such a sucky processor compared to the Pentium 3. |
| 18:12.02 | Dagen | thats why I said, they need to sit you in front of like.. a 386 with DOS or something..and make you code on that |
| 18:12.07 | Thrae | Note that we also have "Information Technology" and "Computer Engineering" degrees too. |
| 18:12.27 | Thrae | Assembly 201 used MASM, but I did it at a community college (saves money). |
| 18:12.46 | Fanook|Zzz | used MASM here, course was taught by a prof who was required to take meds, one of the best classes i've ever taken |
| 18:13.01 | Thrae | I actually think I learned more from my community college classes then my university experiences. |
| 18:13.05 | Dagen | yeah I've used both MASM and TASM |
| 18:13.16 | Dagen | outside of classes though |
| 18:13.34 | Thrae | Community College instructers are there to INSTRUCT, University Professors are there to do research (unless you get that rare College Instructor). |
| 18:14.15 | Thrae | Fanook: Yeah, I've had professor like that too. They are the best. |
| 18:14.16 | Dagen | I had 2 good CS professors at my university |
| 18:14.26 | Dagen | the rest were just morons, basically |
| 18:14.28 | zenzelezz | "LFG get some rept whit bloodsail buccaneers and become pirate(you have to kill booty bay ppl to do it,but whocare about them anymore!)JUST JOIN ME AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT BLOODSAIL HAVE TO BROWSE,(stop major w me :what's the reward)it is reward" |
| 18:15.22 | Thrae | Actually, it's my personal conclusion that requiring anti-depresion medication is a sign of intelligence. |
| 18:15.26 | Dagen | both professors were new and had previous programming jobs |
| 18:15.46 | Dagen | one was a programmer for GE making flight simulators |
| 18:16.00 | Thrae | For one, there's the old saying, "Ignorance is bliss." |
| 18:16.01 | Dagen | the other was a consultant |
| 18:16.04 | Fanook | Thrae: heh, if we got lucky, we could get him going on a tangent for like 5-10 minutes |
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| 18:17.48 | Thrae | Yeah, a few (unfortunately few) of my professors were like that. Whenever someone said "Let's get back on topic of what will be on the next quiz", the professor would basically say, "Screw that, this is interesting." |
| 18:17.50 | Dagen | we had some professors that RARELY stayed on topic |
| 18:18.04 | Dagen | they'd be talking about whatever happened to them like 5 years ago over the summer |
| 18:19.12 | Dagen | then this other professor, he was basically like another student... we'd just BS the whole time in class |
| 18:19.56 | Dagen | good times |
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| 19:16.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=legorol@cpc2-cmbg6-0-0-cust566.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:56.18 | Legorol | From the resident Linux-gurus: I need to configure a machine for DHCP |
| 19:56.27 | Legorol | How do I go about it? What commands should I look for? |
| 19:56.39 | Legorol | I am fine with reading man-pages, but have no idea where to start |
| 19:56.51 | Fanook | ifconfig? |
| 19:57.11 | Legorol | is that a typo and it's ipconfig, or is that really ifconfig |
| 19:57.17 | End | it really is ifconfig |
| 19:57.23 | End | although I doubt it'll help |
| 19:57.36 | Legorol | what else would i need |
| 19:58.11 | End | that depends on the distro probably |
| 19:58.18 | End | you need to start up the dhcp client somehow |
| 19:58.26 | Legorol | mmmmmm.. this is a really ancient machine |
| 19:58.30 | Legorol | i don't even know what's on it |
| 19:58.37 | kergoth | what distro is it? |
| 19:58.45 | Legorol | it suddenly got thrust under my care, and i was told the root password and that i should configure it for dhcp |
| 19:58.55 | Legorol | kergoth: i have sincerely no idea |
| 19:58.57 | Legorol | how do i find out? |
| 19:59.01 | End | magic |
| 19:59.04 | krka | Legorol i think you want to edit /etc/network/interfaces |
| 19:59.08 | End | as in you use your magic powas! |
| 19:59.15 | kergoth | krka: you're assuming its debian based |
| 19:59.16 | Legorol | cool, End |
| 19:59.18 | krka | uname --a might tell you something |
| 19:59.20 | Legorol | but doesn't that use too much mana? |
| 19:59.20 | kergoth | we havent yet made taht determination |
| 19:59.27 | krka | kergoth yeah true |
| 19:59.30 | End | depends on how much mana you have |
| 19:59.41 | Thrae | Legorol: Try /etc/dhcpc and /etc/dhclient |
| 19:59.43 | kergoth | try a cat /etc/redhat-release or cat /etc/debian_version |
| 19:59.46 | Legorol | mmm.. hte main problem is that i'm not actually at the machine |
| 19:59.46 | End | it's 200% of your base mana, so you can't use your magic when naked |
| 19:59.54 | Legorol | and there is no IRC anywhere near it |
| 20:00.05 | Legorol | so i'll just note down everything you guys say and i'll try it tomorrow when i'm at the machine |
| 20:00.12 | Legorol | End: darn |
| 20:00.16 | Thrae | You can't get on the internet next to it? |
| 20:00.21 | Legorol | i can't |
| 20:00.40 | Legorol | well i can get on the internet in an office nearby, if i install IRC there |
| 20:00.41 | Thrae | Not even wireless and a laptop? |
| 20:00.45 | Legorol | don't have one |
| 20:00.52 | kergoth | there isnt a lot we can do to assist not knowing the distribution of the box :P |
| 20:00.53 | Thrae | You could use the web clients, too. |
| 20:01.07 | Legorol | Thrae, the machine has no internet connectivity :) |
| 20:01.11 | Thrae | s/web clients/web IRC clients/ |
| 20:01.16 | Legorol | yeah |
| 20:01.18 | Wobin | thus the DHCP issue =) |
| 20:01.22 | Thrae | Yeah, I kinda guessed that from you having to setup DHCP :D |
| 20:01.42 | Legorol | ok, so maybe i'll come back tomorrow here once i know the distribution |
| 20:01.46 | Legorol | what are the well-known ones? |
| 20:01.52 | Legorol | Red Hat, Debian and SuSe I have heard about |
| 20:01.57 | kergoth | depends on how old the machine is :P |
| 20:01.59 | Legorol | very |
| 20:02.08 | krka | slackware, mandrake |
| 20:02.10 | Legorol | let me see, say.. at least 6 years? |
| 20:02.12 | Thrae | So, this network doesn't use a DHCP Server? |
| 20:02.12 | krka | hm |
| 20:02.13 | kergoth | the key is determining whether its redhat based or debian based. the redhat derivatives are mostly similar with a couple exceptions |
| 20:02.31 | End | Thrae: it sounds like it does, but the linux machine isn't set up to use it |
| 20:02.36 | Legorol | ok, can you give me a few examples of derivatives for both? |
| 20:02.44 | Legorol | End is correct |
| 20:02.45 | kergoth | i just gave you the files to look for |
| 20:02.48 | kergoth | :P |
| 20:02.49 | Legorol | ok |
| 20:02.55 | kergoth | but yeah, look in /etc/, most distros have their version there |
| 20:03.05 | Thrae | So what's the history of this machine? Linux was installed on it when it didn't have a NIC card? |
| 20:03.06 | krka | redhat: mandriva / fedora (i think?) |
| 20:03.07 | kergoth | alternatively, rpm -qa, see if it lists stuff, and dpkg -l, see if it lists stuff |
| 20:03.15 | kergoth | you dont want me to start listing derviatives |
| 20:03.18 | krka | debian: mepis, ubuntu, kubuntu, knoppix (i think?) |
| 20:03.24 | Legorol | Thrae: Linux was installed on it and has been running fine |
| 20:03.27 | End | yes, knoppix is debian based |
| 20:03.30 | kergoth | i've used like 14 rh derivatives alone :P |
| 20:03.30 | Legorol | it has a NIC, and until now it had static IP |
| 20:03.33 | Thrae | Most distros will automagically set up the box for DHCP if it recognizes the NIC. |
| 20:03.36 | Legorol | suddenly the network went over to DHCP |
| 20:03.36 | Thrae | Ahhhhhh, gotcha |
| 20:03.40 | Legorol | and i was told to reconfigure |
| 20:03.57 | kergoth | Thrae: not in old distros, it doesnt. and even if it did, clearly this box is already set up to static |
| 20:03.58 | Thrae | And the people that setup the static IP originally are now gone ;) |
| 20:04.02 | Legorol | is SuSe redhat or debian based? |
| 20:04.06 | kergoth | suse is rh based |
| 20:04.07 | Legorol | Thrae: correct |
| 20:04.18 | Legorol | in fact the people who orginially knew the root password had been gone for years |
| 20:04.23 | Legorol | it was quite an adventure finding it out |
| 20:04.26 | Thrae | kergoth: I wasn't counting old distros, heh. |
| 20:04.35 | kergoth | he jsut toldd us this is a very old box :P |
| 20:04.49 | Thrae | Yeah, I didn't see that line. |
| 20:05.01 | Legorol | there is also an additional... consideration |
| 20:05.09 | Thrae | I'd ghost it and set it up new if I had the chance. |
| 20:05.13 | Legorol | i can't do anything that has the remote chance of making the machine inoperational :) |
| 20:05.27 | Legorol | it's a critical device where i can't screw it up |
| 20:05.37 | Legorol | e.g. if it won't boot because of something i try, i'm in big trouble |
| 20:05.44 | Thrae | But if it's not on the network, then it's not working anyway. |
| 20:05.45 | Legorol | and i don't know much about Linux, so the prospects are great! |
| 20:06.00 | Legorol | well it does do its job even if not on the network |
| 20:06.02 | End | ok, here's what you type: |
| 20:06.03 | Legorol | it just can't transfer its data |
| 20:06.04 | End | rm -rf / |
| 20:06.08 | Legorol | lol End |
| 20:06.12 | Thrae | Ahhh, I thought it was a server. |
| 20:06.12 | Legorol | i'm not *that* naive |
| 20:06.15 | End | hehehe |
| 20:06.21 | Legorol | no, it's a computer running physics experiments |
| 20:06.26 | Legorol | the data is downloaded from it via the network |
| 20:06.27 | kergoth | conectiva had great i18n and apt-get.. turbo had clustering out of the box.. |
| 20:06.30 | Thrae | Gotcha. |
| 20:06.52 | Thrae | Well, if it's running physics experiments, that's even more reason to convince them to ghost and update the distro. |
| 20:07.05 | Legorol | well no |
| 20:07.10 | Legorol | it's currently stable, setup and runs |
| 20:07.18 | Legorol | god knows what will happen if you suddenly change something |
| 20:07.22 | kergoth | if its working fine, theres no reason to introduce more possibility of failure, unless its exposed to the net and you're worried about security |
| 20:07.30 | Legorol | security is not an issue |
| 20:07.32 | Legorol | it's an internal network |
| 20:08.01 | Legorol | the main consideration is to change things as little as possible to not upset the experiment-driving applications set up on it |
| 20:08.03 | Thrae | Well, one would think speed is an issue to them. The newer kernels have more then security fixes. |
| 20:08.16 | Legorol | speed is not an issue either |
| 20:08.23 | Legorol | this computer drives experiments that last days :) |
| 20:08.35 | Legorol | that's why stability is paramount, and since it's proven stable over the past years, i wouldn't want to change it |
| 20:08.36 | kergoth | speed? most of the kernel improvements wont affect scientific work |
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| 20:08.50 | kergoth | you're rpobably thinking of things like low latency and preemption, both voluntary and otherwise, but those primarily affect desktops |
| 20:09.02 | Legorol | i will definitely not touch the kernel |
| 20:09.07 | Thrae | You never know, maybe their applications were compiled with x86 ;) |
| 20:09.11 | kergoth | or the new algos for disk usage, which is only useful for servers doing a lot of disk work |
| 20:09.25 | Legorol | lol |
| 20:09.40 | kergoth | Thrae: in which case they rebuild the app and call it done. |
| 20:09.56 | Legorol | ehm.. the apps on it are pretty ancient too |
| 20:10.09 | Legorol | i'm not even sure it'd be easy, if possible at all to reinstall them :) |
| 20:10.23 | Legorol | it's a computer stuck in history |
| 20:10.47 | Kaelten | ello |
| 20:10.49 | Thrae | You know what you could do? |
| 20:10.49 | Legorol | hi |
| 20:10.56 | Miravlix | If something works, why break it? |
| 20:10.56 | Gryphen | heya |
| 20:10.59 | Miravlix | Hey Kaelten |
| 20:11.00 | Legorol | anyway, thanks for the tips, so once i know what distro it is, what do i do? |
| 20:11.10 | Legorol | let's play pretend-game |
| 20:11.18 | Legorol | let's assume its RH based and then that it's Debian based |
| 20:11.19 | krka | what is it you want to do? |
| 20:11.21 | Legorol | what do i do in each case |
| 20:11.23 | Thrae | Add a $5 router which lets that computer use that static IP. That's an alternative if you can't get it working. |
| 20:11.29 | Legorol | krka: set it up for DHCP client |
| 20:11.33 | Legorol | instead of static IP |
| 20:11.34 | krka | ah right |
| 20:11.52 | Legorol | Thrae: sadly that decision is not mine to make :( |
| 20:11.53 | krka | i think i know for debian... but it would require root access and maybe 2.6 kernel, not sure |
| 20:11.58 | Miravlix | Legorol: Download dhcp3.tar.gz and compile it |
| 20:12.16 | Legorol | so its not as simple as changing some IP parameters? |
| 20:12.20 | Legorol | in Windows its easy ... |
| 20:12.42 | Miravlix | It's only easy because the dhcp server is already installed |
| 20:12.49 | Legorol | what dhcp server |
| 20:12.51 | Miravlix | What if it was a Windows without a dhcp server |
| 20:12.53 | Legorol | windows has no dhcp server |
| 20:12.55 | Legorol | only client |
| 20:12.59 | Miravlix | client even |
| 20:13.04 | krka | iface eth0_temp inet dhcp |
| 20:13.04 | krka | auto eth0_temp |
| 20:13.07 | Legorol | anyways, windows is not an issue, so let's ignore that |
| 20:13.15 | krka | that's two lines from my /etc/network/interfaces |
| 20:13.21 | krka | that _should_ be enough |
| 20:13.22 | Thrae | Legorol: Depends on HOW old the machine is, and if the installer liked to use ancient architectures. |
| 20:13.29 | krka | combined with ifup eth0_temp |
| 20:13.29 | Miravlix | krka: It 99.9% unlikely it has dhcp installed though |
| 20:13.37 | Miravlix | How old is it? |
| 20:13.38 | krka | hm |
| 20:13.43 | krka | thought that was built in |
| 20:13.47 | Legorol | if it has no dhcp client installed, i'm probably screwed |
| 20:13.52 | Miravlix | There is nothing build into linux |
| 20:13.53 | Thrae | dhcp is not "built in" |
| 20:13.55 | End | what do you mean....built in? |
| 20:13.56 | Legorol | krka: what are the three commands? |
| 20:13.57 | Miravlix | it's all seperate apps |
| 20:14.01 | Legorol | iface, auto and ifup |
| 20:14.02 | kergoth | it sounds like you've been smacked by the gentoo propaganda bat |
| 20:14.02 | kergoth | ugh, someone wrote a minesweeper game in Vim |
| 20:14.02 | kergoth | bad developers, bad! no cookie for you! games dont belong in the text editor |
| 20:14.03 | Thrae | There's nothing built in to any operating system. |
| 20:14.15 | Beladona | oh wow, I love this quote: |
| 20:14.18 | Beladona | Anyone can post messages to the net. Practically everyone does. The resulting cacophony drowns out serious discussion. |
| 20:14.21 | Miravlix | That it's strength and it's problem |
| 20:14.26 | krka | ifup is a commend, iface and auto are config lines in /etc/network/interfaces |
| 20:14.33 | Miravlix | There is 30 different dhcp clients |
| 20:14.42 | krka | but to be honest i don't fully understand that file |
| 20:14.56 | Miravlix | man interfaces man ifup |
| 20:15.03 | Legorol | ok |
| 20:15.05 | Fanook | legorol: you could hack dhcp until you actually get it working by using a free address ;) |
| 20:15.26 | Thrae | Windows XP Pro and Home are "distros" of the WINNT Kernal version 5. |
| 20:15.29 | Beladona | damnit man -- or if in linux: man damnit |
| 20:15.32 | Beladona | oh hi |
| 20:15.42 | Miravlix | There is nothing that prevent you from duplicating someone elses ip |
| 20:15.56 | kergoth | Legorol: the instructions you were just given were specific to debian. in redhat, you'll want to poke out in /etc/sysconfig/ or use netconfig |
| 20:15.56 | Thrae | ifup is a script that's included on some distros and most likely won't be on an older machine |
| 20:16.04 | Miravlix | You can't do search and destroy until you get a free one |
| 20:16.12 | Thrae | Older Debian distros didn't include ifup. |
| 20:16.14 | Miravlix | Thats why dhcp is invented |
| 20:16.28 | Legorol | Thrae: actually WinNT Kernel version 5.1 ;-) |
| 20:16.34 | Legorol | but i am digressing again |
| 20:16.41 | Thrae | Legorol: 5.x ;) |
| 20:16.50 | kergoth | Miravlix: eh, there are alternatives to dhcp that deal with that, like ipv6's local ip stuff, and zeroconf networking, which is what recent versions of windows default to if they're unable to get an ip from the dhcp server |
| 20:16.51 | End | 2000 was 5.0 |
| 20:17.05 | kergoth | the zeroconf protocol has facilities to handle collisions |
| 20:17.12 | Thrae | Ah, yes, right, I forgot Microsoft's weird versioning of their kernels |
| 20:17.25 | End | ..doesn't seem weird to me... |
| 20:17.28 | kergoth | Legorol: anyway, find out what distro it is, go from there. |
| 20:17.41 | End | calling them windows 2000 and winxp is the weird part to me :P |
| 20:17.42 | Miravlix | First command you need to execute legerol is uname -a |
| 20:17.50 | Miravlix | Linux sigil 2.6.15-25-server #1 SMP Wed Jun 14 11:52:05 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux |
| 20:17.58 | kergoth | how exactly will that help him? |
| 20:18.03 | kergoth | knowing the kernel is useless. |
| 20:18.10 | Miravlix | The last part GNU/Linux |
| 20:18.11 | Legorol | so let's for the sake of argument assume its debian |
| 20:18.21 | Legorol | and i have poked /etc/network/interfaces with the two lines krka gave |
| 20:18.22 | kergoth | then you read 'man interfaces' |
| 20:18.22 | Miravlix | Thats not used by all distribs |
| 20:18.29 | Thrae | End: the name "Windows 2000" is analgmous to "Debian", except you can't easily pick all of the services installed. |
| 20:18.39 | Thrae | Or the version of your kernel. |
| 20:18.51 | Legorol | then where and how do i issue the ifup command? |
| 20:18.54 | kergoth | Miravlix: there are better solutions, two of which i already gave. debian and redhat distros include a version file in /etc/ in every version that has existed as long as i've been around, and thats back to '96 |
| 20:18.59 | Legorol | is that something that i'd have to put into some kind of startup script? |
| 20:19.07 | End | well... |
| 20:19.16 | kergoth | Legorol: no, the auto line ensures that itll get brought up on bootup, generally. but again, we're flying blind here |
| 20:19.31 | Legorol | ok |
| 20:19.36 | Legorol | well i know i haven't given you guys much to work with |
| 20:19.38 | Thrae | Legorol: If it has a static IP already, that means there is some script around somewhere that is setting it on boot, or some service that is reading from a file which has that setting. |
| 20:19.48 | Legorol | but i don't have anything either, and on top of that i know nothing about Linux too :) |
| 20:19.58 | Miravlix | Yeah /etc/debian_version |
| 20:20.03 | Legorol | Thrae: i agree with your analysis :D |
| 20:20.06 | Miravlix | But Ubuntu has that file too |
| 20:20.09 | kergoth | if its a debian box, you'll find lines in /etc/network/interfaces for your network interface already, with the static configuration |
| 20:20.17 | kergoth | of coruse ubuntu has it. |
| 20:20.23 | kergoth | ubuntu is almost identical to debian, with some fixes and cleaups |
| 20:20.30 | Legorol | what is the redhat equivalent of /etc/network/interfaces? |
| 20:20.31 | kergoth | and thats waht we care about, what its based on. |
| 20:20.35 | Legorol | or is it a completely different system |
| 20:20.43 | Miravlix | Not really |
| 20:20.53 | kergoth | Legorol: files in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/. seperate scripts for each interface |
| 20:20.56 | Thrae | Personally, I think it's probably better to assume it'll be a Red Hat box, since they were VERY popular in universities until a few years ago. |
| 20:20.57 | Miravlix | he should simply put dhcp3 on a disk and load it into the computer |
| 20:21.01 | kergoth | Legorol: if its rh, you're probably best off doing netconfig |
| 20:21.01 | Legorol | kergoth: ok |
| 20:21.27 | Thrae | Universities / Businesses |
| 20:21.49 | Legorol | if i had to guess, i'd probably guess red hat |
| 20:21.51 | Thrae | Legorol: Are they even sure it's Linux? |
| 20:21.56 | Legorol | hehe, yes |
| 20:21.58 | Legorol | i'm sure about that |
| 20:22.06 | Legorol | there is X server running, and i can bring up an xterm |
| 20:22.13 | End | it's better off to assume it is either and get instructions for both ;p |
| 20:22.19 | Legorol | true |
| 20:22.23 | Miravlix | Legorol: All Unixes has that. |
| 20:22.33 | Miravlix | So BSD, Sun, etc. |
| 20:22.34 | krka | could be a solaris for all we know |
| 20:22.37 | Legorol | ehm.. are there any other types of Unix that runs on a PC? |
| 20:22.44 | Miravlix | All of them |
| 20:22.48 | kergoth | all of them my ass. |
| 20:22.50 | End | the BSDs do, solaris does now I think too |
| 20:22.50 | Legorol | really |
| 20:22.55 | krka | hmm... suns don't run on pcs, right? |
| 20:22.58 | kergoth | openbsd, freebsd, netbsd, and solaris x86 |
| 20:22.58 | Miravlix | It's freaking close enough |
| 20:23.00 | kergoth | that about sums it up |
| 20:23.00 | Thrae | Yes Legorol, lots and lots. Even distros that were made for PowerPC have PC versions. |
| 20:23.03 | Legorol | ok look this is a chok standard intel-clone PC |
| 20:23.05 | kergoth | doesnt cover thousands of other unixes |
| 20:23.10 | Legorol | i'm sure there is nothing fancy on it |
| 20:23.15 | Legorol | someone got a cheap Linux distro |
| 20:23.17 | Legorol | i will bet on that |
| 20:23.22 | kergoth | including solaris sparc, aix, hp/ux, digital unix, dg/ux, and countless others |
| 20:23.34 | Thrae | Lots have universities have ancient Solaris machines |
| 20:23.52 | kergoth | ancient solaris boxes are everywhere :) they're solid as a rock |
| 20:24.04 | Thrae | All *nix distros are fairly cheap for educational facilities |
| 20:24.05 | Legorol | yes but given the history of this machine, the environment and the people that used it, it's highly unlikely its anything other than Linux |
| 20:24.22 | Legorol | i will worry about that if that's not hte case |
| 20:24.25 | Legorol | for now i assume it is |
| 20:24.30 | Thrae | We're just trying to make you panic, Legorol ;) |
| 20:24.37 | Legorol | you are failing bysmally ;-) |
| 20:24.56 | Legorol | i know enough about computers to know when to panic ;-) |
| 20:24.57 | Tain | Have you tried 'uname' |
| 20:25.15 | Thrae | He's not at the computer. |
| 20:25.17 | Legorol | i literally were given this machine today, and i had a whole of 5 minutes to look at it :) |
| 20:25.19 | Legorol | i forgot about uname |
| 20:25.34 | Legorol | i'm just collecting useful tips in advance before i approach it again tomorrow |
| 20:25.41 | krka | uname is pretty good |
| 20:25.42 | Miravlix | find / > files ; grep debian files ; grep redhat files ; grep slackware files |
| 20:25.46 | krka | if it's linux, it will tell you |
| 20:25.54 | krka | and kernel version |
| 20:26.12 | Thrae | Legorol: I'd print out your irc log for the last 15 minutes or so. |
| 20:26.13 | Miravlix | uname -a is the key to identifying the kernel of the os. |
| 20:26.16 | Tain | uname -a - Linux floor 2.6.15-25-amd64-generic #1 SMP PREEMPT |
| 20:26.29 | kergoth | uname -a isnt even valid on most non-linux machines. and if its linux, it wont be useful. |
| 20:26.38 | End | FreeBSD bluealien 5.3-RELEASE-p18 FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE-p18 #5: Wed Mar 15 07:25:39 MST 2006 end@bluealien:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/BLUEALIEN i386 |
| 20:26.40 | Tain | No, but if it is Linux it'll tell you that it's Linux. |
| 20:26.41 | End | :P |
| 20:26.43 | krka | kernel version is useful |
| 20:26.49 | krka | 2.2 / 2.4 / 2.6 |
| 20:26.50 | kergoth | run 'uname' without arguments to verify the OS |
| 20:27.01 | Legorol | ok let me ask some more practical questions :) |
| 20:27.01 | kergoth | no, not in this case it isnt. he wants to know how to set up dhcp. we need to know the distro, not the kernel version |
| 20:27.06 | Legorol | assuming its Linux, |
| 20:27.12 | Legorol | and its RH or Debian based, |
| 20:27.14 | krka | useful in general! |
| 20:27.16 | Tain | You have to start collecting information somewhere. |
| 20:27.18 | Legorol | what are the chances it has a dhcp client? |
| 20:27.27 | kergoth | quite good |
| 20:27.36 | krka | no idea... i just figured it was builtin |
| 20:27.39 | krka | i have never not had one |
| 20:27.42 | kergoth | nearly all distros include it out of the box, even old debian, even in the minimal 20-25 meg base install |
| 20:27.49 | Legorol | ok, is there a dhcp client that is usually distributed with most distros? |
| 20:27.53 | krka | depends on how old the machine is i guess |
| 20:27.54 | kergoth | no |
| 20:27.55 | Legorol | thanks kergoth |
| 20:27.59 | kergoth | there are at least 3 major dhcp clients out there |
| 20:28.05 | Legorol | ouch |
| 20:28.06 | Legorol | ok |
| 20:28.08 | krka | i thought it was just a driver-thingy |
| 20:28.13 | Miravlix | I don't remember when it became common to have dhcp with the install |
| 20:28.16 | kergoth | debian uses one, rh based uses another.. oh, and debian has all of them available, so which one its using could have been chnaged.. |
| 20:28.19 | Miravlix | Slackware still doesn't have it |
| 20:28.20 | Legorol | if you were sitting at this machine, and you know it is (let's say) RH-based |
| 20:28.29 | Legorol | how would you go about finding out if it has a dhcp client, |
| 20:28.34 | Legorol | and if it does, which one it is? |
| 20:28.35 | Miravlix | When was it installed? |
| 20:28.42 | Miravlix | 5 years ago? |
| 20:28.42 | kergoth | just run netconfig at that point, choose automatic, and call it a day |
| 20:28.46 | Legorol | Miravlix: i don't know, my guess is at least 5 years ago |
| 20:28.46 | Miravlix | 10 years? |
| 20:28.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge SilverShadow (n=silversh@69-2-90-22.wan.networktel.net) |
| 20:28.48 | Legorol | but probably more |
| 20:29.01 | Legorol | kergoth: sounds good |
| 20:29.03 | Thrae | Legorol: Try ps aux | grep and find |
| 20:29.04 | Legorol | now, what about Debian :) |
| 20:29.16 | kergoth | for debian, read 'man interfaces' and edit /etc/network/interfaces |
| 20:29.21 | Legorol | Thrae: even if it has dhcp client installed, it's not guaranteed to be running |
| 20:29.22 | Legorol | ok cool |
| 20:29.29 | Miravlix | dpkg-reconfigure |
| 20:29.29 | Thrae | Legorol: That's what find is for ;) |
| 20:29.32 | krka | you kids with your fancy dhcp... when i was young we just had one bit addressing so you could be 0 and your friend could be 1 |
| 20:29.39 | Legorol | Thrae: ah ok i missed the find bit |
| 20:29.45 | Miravlix | Now we just need someone to remember the package that will setup the network |
| 20:29.47 | Wobin | krka: You had a 1? |
| 20:29.53 | End | krka: why have addressing at all then? |
| 20:29.54 | Miravlix | and let you choose dhcp or static ip |
| 20:29.54 | Wobin | lucky bastards |
| 20:29.58 | Thrae | You youngin' krka, in my days, we just had the letter 'O' |
| 20:29.58 | End | unless you want to talk to yourself? |
| 20:30.17 | Legorol | in my days, you didn't use addressing... you used a piece of cable |
| 20:30.20 | kergoth | its almost certainly netbase. dpkg-reconfigure netbase, for debian, if you dont want to fuck with interfaces |
| 20:30.27 | Legorol | it was called a cross-over serial cable ;-) |
| 20:30.35 | Miravlix | Now we are getting somewhere |
| 20:30.48 | Miravlix | netconfig if redhat and dpkg-reconfigure netbase if debian |
| 20:30.51 | Thrae | I remember playing many a multiplayer PC game via a nullmodem. |
| 20:30.55 | krka | you have root access now lego? |
| 20:31.01 | krka | what do you need the machine for btw? |
| 20:31.05 | krka | installing cedega and running wow? |
| 20:31.12 | Legorol | Miravlix: thanks |
| 20:31.22 | Legorol | lol krka |
| 20:31.25 | Thrae | wow would make it explode ;) |
| 20:31.27 | Legorol | yes i have root access |
| 20:31.35 | Legorol | Thrae: it quite literally might do that |
| 20:31.36 | kergoth | heh, my first technical job was working for digi international. they maek boards that give you 300+ serial ports. dealign with 10 year old sco xenix installs with dumb terminals connected via rj45 rs232 |
| 20:31.45 | Miravlix | Not sure it's netbase though |
| 20:31.46 | Legorol | not necessarily the machine, but the tank of liquid helium next to it |
| 20:31.49 | Legorol | and that wouldn't be pleasant |
| 20:31.50 | Thrae | hehe |
| 20:31.53 | Miravlix | that does nothing on my linux |
| 20:31.57 | Tain | haha yep I had a digiboard, 4 port serial |
| 20:32.19 | kergoth | Tain: :) |
| 20:32.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kemayo (n=Kemayo@pool-71-103-166-178.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 20:32.45 | Legorol | well it sounds like this will be a bigger job than i thought |
| 20:32.46 | Tain | My poor serial card with it's 16450 UARTs couldnt' take me trying to run a multi-line BBS. |
| 20:32.52 | Legorol | i was kinda hoping to just edit a config file or something |
| 20:33.03 | Beladona | Miravliz: you trying to find a gui based network config? |
| 20:33.05 | krka | this is linux! who are you kidding? |
| 20:33.12 | Legorol | myself |
| 20:33.16 | Beladona | well, frontend for it anyway |
| 20:33.17 | Legorol | i was hoping i was in windows land |
| 20:33.23 | krka | my debian has a netcardconfig actually |
| 20:33.24 | Legorol | where things make sense, are easy and yet powerful |
| 20:33.29 | krka | dont know how old that is |
| 20:33.37 | Legorol | as opposed to linux land, where things don't make sense, are overcomplicated and just as powerful |
| 20:33.37 | Beladona | netcardconfig, wlancardconfig are the ones I am used to |
| 20:33.57 | End | hmm, I don't have a netcardconfig but I have a nethack! |
| 20:34.01 | kergoth | everything makes sense in linux, but not until you've already learned about them ;) |
| 20:34.07 | kergoth | yay nethack |
| 20:34.15 | Miravlix | Nothing make sense in Windows |
| 20:34.17 | Legorol | kergoth: that's my biggest gripe with Linux |
| 20:34.28 | Legorol | i find that in Windows, even if i dont' know about something, i know where to start from |
| 20:34.29 | Miravlix | You can't get under the hood in Windows to figure out whats going on |
| 20:34.30 | Legorol | and can eventually find it |
| 20:34.34 | kergoth | good game |
| 20:34.44 | Legorol | in Linux, i always get the impression that unless you know about the existence of something already, you will never find it |
| 20:34.44 | Miravlix | There is no problem I can't solve in Linux |
| 20:34.53 | Legorol | Miravlix: well i tend to be the opposite |
| 20:34.53 | Beladona | yet |
| 20:34.55 | Miravlix | None what so ever is impossible to figure out and fix |
| 20:34.56 | Legorol | so let's call it even |
| 20:34.56 | krka | i feel the same way lego :/ |
| 20:35.04 | Beladona | should always qualify statements like that |
| 20:35.04 | Tain | How's global warming going, Miravlix? |
| 20:35.05 | krka | which is why irc is a good thing :) |
| 20:35.15 | krka | hang in multiple channels with smart people FTW |
| 20:35.25 | Miravlix | But everything is window is hidden inside propitate and monolitihit software so you can't figure out what it does |
| 20:35.32 | Legorol | why do you think this is the first place i thought of trying to ask for help ;-) |
| 20:35.37 | kergoth | of course there are problems you cannot solve in linux, at least without assistance. when's the last time you debugged a kernel panic? ;) </pedantic> |
| 20:35.43 | Legorol | highest concentration of computer knowledge and IQ at the same time i have ever met ;-) |
| 20:35.45 | Miravlix | where you in linux jump for one little program to another until you have perfectly traced things |
| 20:35.47 | krka | not convinced it's the first place :P |
| 20:35.49 | End | hrmph |
| 20:35.55 | End | I forgot how disable autopickup |
| 20:35.58 | Beladona | Lego, people new t computers feel the same way about not knowing where things are. It takes getting used to |
| 20:36.20 | Legorol | i am sure it's a question of getting used to |
| 20:36.34 | Legorol | but the difference is somehow with a Linux machine even if i start poking myself, i don't seem to get anywhere |
| 20:36.38 | Miravlix | The MBR boots the kernel, the kernel starts init |
| 20:36.39 | Beladona | to me, Linuz vs Windows is like Manual vs Automatic shifting |
| 20:36.40 | krka | that's the thing with commandline vs gui |
| 20:36.43 | Beladona | Linux* |
| 20:36.44 | Legorol | on Windows, ihave always gotten away with sitting down, and start poking myself |
| 20:36.46 | krka | it's easier to explore in a gui |
| 20:36.46 | Miravlix | inittab starts something else |
| 20:36.49 | Legorol | and could figure out everything like that |
| 20:36.51 | Miravlix | You simply trace it |
| 20:36.59 | krka | in a commandline, you basically have to know what you're going to type |
| 20:37.02 | Legorol | krka: i think you got the essence of it |
| 20:37.18 | Miravlix | alias dir=ls |
| 20:37.33 | Miravlix | cd is the same |
| 20:37.33 | Legorol | Miravlix: i didn't know inittab starts everyting else |
| 20:37.46 | krka | navigating the filesystem isn't all you need |
| 20:37.48 | Miravlix | inittab is init's config file |
| 20:37.53 | Legorol | what is init? |
| 20:37.54 | Miravlix | it's /etc/inittab |
| 20:38.03 | Legorol | anyway, don't worry answerint it |
| 20:38.07 | krka | and navigating the filesystem is always a full chapter in every linux book :/ |
| 20:38.10 | Legorol | i'm not here to learn about LInux today, right now ;-) |
| 20:38.15 | Miravlix | Init is the initializer. |
| 20:38.15 | Beladona | I am sure we can all agree though, that command line is invaluable |
| 20:38.24 | Legorol | yes |
| 20:38.25 | End | You slip while trying to get on the saddled pony.--More-- You die... |
| 20:38.25 | krka | commandline is unbeatable, if you know it |
| 20:38.28 | Legorol | i totally agree with you Beladona |
| 20:38.31 | Miravlix | It starts everything out setup up ttys |
| 20:38.36 | kergoth | init is go.d |
| 20:38.38 | End | stupid nethack, now I know why I lefr you |
| 20:38.41 | kergoth | s/.d/d./ |
| 20:38.45 | Beladona | I prefer it in most cases, but I appreciate the idea that some people abhor it |
| 20:38.51 | krka | piping commands is really really useful |
| 20:39.06 | Legorol | i agree that command line is absolutely awesome once you know what you are doing |
| 20:39.14 | Legorol | for exploring what's there though, a GUI is better, maybe |
| 20:39.26 | Beladona | to this day I still write shell scripts and basic text driven scripts for mundane tasks |
| 20:39.27 | Miravlix | find / | grep something | tail |
| 20:39.31 | End | yeah, gui is better for exploration, but command line is more flexible |
| 20:40.13 | End | the command line gives you MAGICK POWAS |
| 20:40.31 | Beladona | and lets face it. some things can be done FASTER in cmdline |
| 20:40.36 | End | definitely |
| 20:40.37 | krka | absolutely |
| 20:40.52 | Legorol | yes, some things |
| 20:40.53 | krka | with fingers like lasers! |
| 20:40.59 | zenzelezz | one of the things that charmed me about Slackware when I first tried Linux was how it tossed me into the command line by default |
| 20:41.00 | Miravlix | People gets slow and lazy in GUi's |
| 20:41.05 | Legorol | the thing that i find though is that i can navigate filesystem faster in a GUI |
| 20:41.18 | Miravlix | They never use any shortcuts but use hours on mving the mouse around and opening menus |
| 20:41.27 | End | maybe you can faster...I'm faster with command line |
| 20:41.28 | End | although... |
| 20:41.31 | End | I depend on tab |
| 20:41.32 | krka | not lazy, inefficient |
| 20:41.42 | kergoth | i do nearly everything in teh commandline. half the time i dont even run X |
| 20:41.43 | kergoth | heh |
| 20:41.43 | Miravlix | tab completion rules |
| 20:42.06 | Miravlix | And a Unix file system has a strict structure |
| 20:42.06 | zenzelezz | End: so? You use what you have at your disposal... you'd hardly stop using keyboard shortcuts in the file manager just because it's graphical |
| 20:42.15 | Miravlix | We all pretty much know where everything is |
| 20:42.29 | kergoth | s/Unix/Linux/ |
| 20:42.32 | kergoth | linux has the FHS |
| 20:42.41 | kergoth | other unixes are -similar-, but do deviate |
| 20:42.44 | Miravlix | We have /etc /root /home /usr /var/log /var/spool/mail |
| 20:42.48 | End | zenzelezz: I use very few of the keyboard shortcuts in a file manager |
| 20:43.15 | Miravlix | I fire up Mc |
| 20:43.19 | Miravlix | in Linux |
| 20:43.24 | zenzelezz | End: by choice :) They're there, just like tab completion on a command line |
| 20:43.27 | Miravlix | But I still do cd / to get around |
| 20:43.38 | Miravlix | The mc just saves me a ls -l |
| 20:43.55 | End | ok |
| 20:43.57 | Miravlix | and mc is better for dealing with directories with more than a screen full of files |
| 20:44.00 | End | actually |
| 20:44.03 | Legorol | well the reason why i find GUI faster to navigate is because i get a tree of the filesystem |
| 20:44.06 | End | I only see a few in the windows file manager |
| 20:44.14 | Legorol | so i can jump from one dir to another, at arbitrary depth, with a single click |
| 20:44.17 | Miravlix | midnight commander, it's a text gui file system explorer |
| 20:44.23 | Legorol | no that's not a gui |
| 20:44.29 | Legorol | or not a full-blown one |
| 20:44.34 | krka | tree is soooo '60s... directed cyclic graphs FTW! |
| 20:44.37 | zenzelezz | End: I was only making a point... what you were saying sounded to me like "tab completion is cheating" |
| 20:44.39 | Legorol | forme the thing that matters most is the tree |
| 20:44.43 | Miravlix | It does precisely the same as windows explorer |
| 20:44.44 | End | oh |
| 20:44.44 | Legorol | krka: lol |
| 20:44.45 | End | well |
| 20:44.51 | Legorol | Miravlix: ah ok |
| 20:44.53 | Miravlix | Actually it does it better than windows explorer |
| 20:44.56 | End | I didn't mean it was cheating |
| 20:44.56 | Legorol | i thought it just had a dir list |
| 20:45.03 | Miravlix | We lost Norton Commander and the others with windows |
| 20:45.07 | Legorol | but anyway, whatever works for you, that's what matters |
| 20:45.08 | End | I meant that it was pretty much the only reason I -am- faster that way |
| 20:45.08 | Miravlix | wastly supperior file managers |
| 20:45.11 | Legorol | i used to use NC :) |
| 20:45.27 | End | it's the one thing I can point my finger at |
| 20:45.30 | End | for the most part |
| 20:45.48 | krka | my god, such a pointless discussion |
| 20:45.52 | Legorol | hehe |
| 20:46.02 | Legorol | well i can give you one specific example which does tend to bother me |
| 20:46.04 | Miravlix | The mc layout just doesn't work in a GUI when you loss the keyboard contact |
| 20:46.07 | Legorol | say i wanted to go 5 directories up |
| 20:46.15 | Legorol | on the command line, that involves typing ../../../../.. |
| 20:46.17 | Legorol | that takes ages |
| 20:46.22 | krka | ctrl-r in bash FTW |
| 20:46.22 | Legorol | in a tree-based GUI i click once |
| 20:46.27 | Miravlix | mc is powerfull because I have both hands on the keyboard and isn't waisting on on a mouse |
| 20:46.29 | Legorol | ctrl-r? |
| 20:46.33 | krka | up enter up enter up enter lego :P |
| 20:46.40 | krka | reverse history search |
| 20:46.46 | Legorol | but up enter repeats the previous command, doesn't it? |
| 20:46.51 | krka | yes |
| 20:46.56 | Legorol | so, i'd have to type cd .. |
| 20:46.59 | Miravlix | cd .... |
| 20:47.00 | Legorol | then press up enter 4 times |
| 20:47.03 | krka | cd .. <enter> <up> <enter> .. |
| 20:47.05 | krka | true |
| 20:47.23 | Legorol | to me that just takes a lot longer than clicking in the tree |
| 20:47.25 | Miravlix | cd ../irc/conf |
| 20:47.25 | Legorol | but that's just me |
| 20:47.27 | Beladona | it depends |
| 20:47.30 | Legorol | this whole thing is so subjective |
| 20:47.36 | Beladona | I type pretty damn fast in a shell |
| 20:47.42 | Legorol | i operate with one hand on keyboard, one hand on mouse |
| 20:47.51 | Legorol | i use a combination of keyboard shortcuts and mouse |
| 20:47.55 | Legorol | i find that the fastest |
| 20:48.00 | Miravlix | cd ../irc/conf;emacs ircd.conf;cd ..; killall -HUP ircd;tail -f log/ircd.log |
| 20:48.01 | krka | i need two hands to type :( |
| 20:48.20 | Legorol | so do i |
| 20:48.24 | Beladona | and screw clicking in a tree |
| 20:48.32 | Beladona | you should see me traverse the windows registry |
| 20:48.38 | Miravlix | Yeah you just might find a snake |
| 20:48.43 | Legorol | Beladona: how do you do it? |
| 20:48.44 | Miravlix | and get an Apple |
| 20:48.47 | Legorol | i use keyboard for that |
| 20:48.51 | Legorol | like tab completion actually |
| 20:48.54 | Legorol | don't use mouse there |
| 20:48.58 | krka | <singing>Beladona, clicking in a tree -- traversing the registry</singing> |
| 20:49.06 | Beladona | I use the first few letters of the folder I know that I want, then press right to open it, then type more letters |
| 20:49.07 | Legorol | anyways, i gotta run |
| 20:49.13 | Legorol | Beladona: same here |
| 20:49.14 | Beladona | I can get to a deeply nested folder in 3 seconds |
| 20:49.17 | Legorol | thanks for all the tips, guys |
| 20:49.20 | Legorol | Beladona: ditto |
| 20:49.34 | krka | later |
| 20:49.37 | Beladona | krka: that was just wrong ;D |
| 20:49.47 | krka | it rhymed |
| 20:49.50 | Beladona | hehe |
| 20:50.05 | Miravlix | No one is ever going to convince me that anything you can do with a mouse in Windows is faster than using Windows build in shortcuts with all ten claws on the keyboard |
| 20:50.14 | Miravlix | Only time mouse is NEEDEd is for web page |
| 20:50.20 | Beladona | now bear in mind, most people that are avid windows users, will in fact say they prefer gui |
| 20:50.24 | Miravlix | Web pages is a bloody pain in lynx |
| 20:50.31 | Tain | Except when people code Windows apps poorly and don't include proper keyboard support in their GUIs. |
| 20:50.35 | Beladona | mostly because most of windows is gui, and isn't always exposed to cmd line |
| 20:50.45 | Beladona | thats why I like linux |
| 20:50.50 | End | the windows command line sucks too |
| 20:50.56 | End | it's a lot better than it used to be though |
| 20:51.10 | Beladona | we will see how they do with the new windows shell |
| 20:51.16 | Tain | I won't use it. |
| 20:51.19 | Beladona | its supposed to emulate linux in some ways |
| 20:51.24 | Tain | I started using it when it was code named Monad. |
| 20:51.30 | Beladona | yeah i didn't like it |
| 20:51.41 | Tain | But the marketing department got involved and now it's officially named, "Microsoft Power Shell" |
| 20:51.46 | Tain | F that. |
| 20:51.52 | Beladona | lol |
| 20:52.02 | Miravlix | MPS? |
| 20:52.07 | kergoth | hahah, power shell? |
| 20:52.10 | Miravlix | The PMS of OS'es? |
| 20:52.12 | kergoth | that's just sad |
| 20:52.15 | Fanook | i have a strong dislike for MS marketing |
| 20:52.31 | Beladona | Microsoft "we can't do it like linux, so lets make a blatant attempt at copying it" power shell |
| 20:52.43 | Fanook | bela: it's what they do |
| 20:52.43 | Tain | It was msh.exe |
| 20:52.46 | Tain | now it's powershell.exe |
| 20:52.46 | Miravlix | I think copying Linux is good |
| 20:52.52 | Tain | I can't Start - Run - powershell |
| 20:52.57 | Beladona | well you can |
| 20:53.00 | Miravlix | Thats why we made Linux GPL and free source in the first place |
| 20:53.00 | Beladona | but who wnats to |
| 20:53.09 | Tain | Actually it has some nice concepts for a Windows system. |
| 20:53.19 | Tain | The ability to call .NET functions directly from the command line. |
| 20:53.19 | Miravlix | And that we don't patent how we change directories at a command prompt |
| 20:53.36 | End | well, that sort of thing is a way before Linux sort of thing |
| 20:53.48 | Beladona | I am looking forward to the exchange features via command line |
| 20:53.53 | Miravlix | It's to create ideas that free for widely adoption |
| 20:54.01 | Miravlix | So the more windows adopts the better |
| 20:54.18 | Miravlix | The problem is the embrace and extend and not share |
| 20:54.28 | Miravlix | Browser wars. o.O |
| 20:54.37 | krka | sleep time |
| 20:54.42 | Tain | Yeah there's a lot of good potential. The current version of "Power Shell" has a hefty startup time though, at least compared to cmd, so for quick things I can't handle the wait when I don't normally keep a Win shell open. |
| 20:54.43 | Beladona | you know what MS needs to do? rewrite active directory |
| 20:54.58 | Beladona | every new version seems like a new addition on shaky code |
| 20:55.12 | Miravlix | MS needs to take Apple OS X |
| 20:55.20 | Miravlix | and put Windows ontop of it as a GUI |
| 20:55.26 | Miravlix | Then we can all go home |
| 20:55.27 | Tain | Well it is, especially since ADS was originally tossed together very quickly to try to draw people away from Netware's NDS. |
| 20:55.29 | KarlKFI | ew |
| 20:55.34 | Miravlix | And Microsoft wins |
| 20:55.51 | Beladona | aye |
| 20:56.00 | Miravlix | The ironic thing is, they wont do it, even while it would take the market for ever |
| 20:56.02 | Beladona | they need to go to a more relational database design |
| 20:56.41 | Beladona | hell, the contact management system we use here is more impressive than AD |
| 20:57.19 | Beladona | anyway, I am heading home. have fun all |
| 20:57.26 | Tem | anyone around that understands Fonts in WoW? |
| 20:57.38 | Tem | I'm having the hardest time getting this to work |
| 20:57.41 | Beladona | I understand some |
| 20:58.15 | Miravlix | My gui aversion has left me less than aduquate at addopting WoW GUI technoligy. :P |
| 20:58.16 | Tem | http://pastebin.ca/74261 |
| 20:58.41 | Tem | the engine is "ignoring" my outline="THICK" and my font height setting |
| 20:59.00 | Beladona | try setting it in lua |
| 20:59.00 | Beladona | see if it takes |
| 20:59.16 | Tem | I don't wanna set it in lua |
| 20:59.28 | Tem | because I can't only change the font height and flags |
| 20:59.33 | Tem | I would have to set a font |
| 20:59.39 | Tem | then stuff like ClearFont would break |
| 20:59.47 | Beladona | hmm |
| 20:59.49 | Kirkburn | =) |
| 20:59.54 | Tem | well, not break, just be unable to change the font |
| 21:00.16 | Beladona | does ClearFont change the font directly or does it change the global string used to identify the font? |
| 21:00.44 | Beladona | example: STANDARD_TEXT_FONT |
| 21:00.56 | Kirkburn | This is all that ClearFont does: it runs GameFontNormal:SetFont(CLEAR_FONT, 13 * CF_SCALE); |
| 21:01.07 | Beladona | ahh ok |
| 21:01.10 | Kirkburn | Oh, plus a few like that: STANDARD_TEXT_FONT = CLEAR_FONT; |
| 21:01.13 | Beladona | so it wouldn't work then |
| 21:01.29 | Beladona | well it might |
| 21:01.37 | Tem | so, I can use STANDARD_TEXT_FONT? |
| 21:01.43 | Beladona | hold on |
| 21:01.44 | Tem | oh |
| 21:01.48 | Tem | no that wouldn't work again |
| 21:01.51 | kergoth | ~/code/wow$ wow_addon -v 2.6 ArmchairAlchemist.2.6.zip WOW_ADDON: Version 2.5 of ArmchairAlchemist |cff007fff -Ace- |cffff8811 by Wobin|r is already imported and tagged. |
| 21:01.53 | purl | kergoth: that's too long |
| 21:01.53 | Beladona | making sure the font inheritance you used uses it |
| 21:02.02 | kergoth | ~fishslap Wobin |
| 21:02.03 | purl | ACTION slaps Wobin up side the head with a wet fish. |
| 21:02.07 | chuckg | Anyone familiar with af_tooltip_mini? |
| 21:02.12 | kergoth | Wobin: forgot to update the version in the .toc :) |
| 21:02.16 | Wobin | ... |
| 21:02.20 | Wobin | I could have sworn I did |
| 21:02.29 | Beladona | it doesn't, but it does use the same font as STANDARD_TEXT_FONT |
| 21:02.33 | Beladona | so it would work |
| 21:02.51 | Wobin | oh |
| 21:02.54 | Wobin | I'll remove it |
| 21:03.18 | Beladona | as long as Clearfont changes STANDARD_TEXT_FONT then your font should inherit it |
| 21:03.30 | Beladona | when set in lua |
| 21:03.30 | Wobin | Sorry Kerg =) |
| 21:03.35 | kergoth | hehe. no worries |
| 21:03.36 | Tem | no, it wouldn't |
| 21:03.43 | Tem | STANDARD_TEXT_FONT is just a string |
| 21:03.52 | Tem | that points to FRIZQT__.ttf |
| 21:03.58 | Beladona | right |
| 21:04.19 | Tem | so once I set my font with that string, if anything changes the string, my font is unaffected |
| 21:04.23 | Thrae | Ack |
| 21:04.30 | Beladona | you are right |
| 21:04.40 | Beladona | you would have to update, which is a sad hack |
| 21:04.44 | Beladona | hmm |
| 21:04.57 | Kirkburn | Although ClearFont will have likely changed it before you get to it |
| 21:05.15 | Kirkburn | But it wouldn't be guaranteed |
| 21:06.08 | SinePi | what do you have against frizqt, it's a nice font :) |
| 21:07.22 | Beladona | I have gotten outlines to work fine in lua, but not xml. Thats why I suggested it. What about creating the font instance in lua? |
| 21:09.03 | Beladona | ahh well, time for me to go home. i will log in from there and test the whole font thing |
| 21:09.07 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@josephpartners.com) |
| 21:09.30 | Tem | the problem is that I need to set the font height and font flags, but not the font itself |
| 21:09.39 | Tem | and I want it to inherit the font from it's parent font |
| 21:10.16 | Kirkburn | (it appears you can shorten a shadow to just <Shadow/> btw) |
| 21:10.42 | Kirkburn | I can't see anything wrong with what you've made :/ |
| 21:10.44 | SinePi | With every decent XML parser you can. |
| 21:11.49 | Thrae | Tem: Why don't you inherit the various GameFonts? |
| 21:12.06 | Kirkburn | (Tem, why not the wow pastebin?) |
| 21:12.17 | Tem | because it's slow lately |
| 21:12.25 | Tem | and pastebin.ca is nice |
| 21:12.27 | Kirkburn | ah |
| 21:12.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (i=andrew@124.197.16.253) |
| 21:17.54 | Kirkburn | Adobe sure are geniuses ... the About Flash Player 9 box is blocked by the IE pop-up blocker :/ |
| 21:18.33 | Kirkburn | (oh yeah, flash player 9 is out :) |
| 21:18.46 | KarlKFI | hasn't 9 been out ages? |
| 21:20.59 | Kirkburn | no |
| 21:21.06 | Kirkburn | Apparently there have been betas |
| 21:25.19 | Kirkburn | I think it got released yesterday properly |
| 21:28.37 | wereHamster | http://62.65.141.13:61098/ .. any ideas what else I could add before I release a beta version? |
| 21:30.26 | Kirkburn | 'ultimative' ?? |
| 21:31.36 | Kirkburn | Looks nice :) |
| 21:31.53 | Wobin | wereHamster: Would it be possible to have a tree menu on the righthand side? |
| 21:32.01 | Kirkburn | I would increase the contrast on link colour changes though |
| 21:32.11 | Wobin | It's possibly more intuitive that way since you're clicking over there to advance |
| 21:32.37 | wereHamster | I'm still having problems getting the data out of the database.. like getting the most successful raids on a realm etc.. |
| 21:33.33 | Kirkburn | I keep meaning to go on WoW and play, so now I'm going to |
| 21:33.48 | Kirkburn|wow | (zomg) |
| 21:35.15 | wereHamster | Wobin, you mean the whole tree always visible instead of just the current 'level' ? |
| 21:35.28 | Wobin | yeah |
| 21:35.47 | Wobin | at least one level, so you can go 'back' as it were |
| 21:35.54 | Wobin | but that depends on how deep they'll get |
| 21:39.27 | wereHamster | you have a 'path' just below the green bar.. in case you want to go 'back' to any level |
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| 21:53.59 | Wobin | oh aye, but it's more intuitive to see it where you're clicking 'forward' |
| 21:54.22 | Wobin | (if that makes sense) |
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| 22:54.22 | cladhaire | krka: everyone LOVES FAIAP +) |
| 22:54.23 | cladhaire | =) |
| 23:03.07 | KarlKFI | faiap is goodness |
| 23:09.51 | cladhaire | indeed |
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