| 00:05.32 | Legorol | yay for my server bouncing up and down like a rubber ball, on saturday night! |
| 00:18.28 | kaiden | is there a quick way to wipe the data that a saved variable has even if it's nested so that when you console reloadui it completely wipes the savedvariable out? |
| 00:18.45 | kaiden | i tried doing varname = { }, .. maybe varname = nil? |
| 00:30.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (n=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
| 00:31.58 | kaiden | ok am i missing something, is there a maximum amount of data a SavedVariable can have in it?> |
| 00:33.12 | Kaso | if there it's big |
| 00:34.40 | kaiden | ok.. then, i have 2 slash commands one pulls up guild info and shoves it into varname[realmname][charname]["Guild Info"] .. puts tons of info below that |
| 00:34.55 | kaiden | works great, however if i run my slash command to parse my inventory it doesn't work doesn't add anything to it |
| 00:35.04 | kaiden | so.... i go delete that file logout and make sure the file is gone |
| 00:35.14 | kaiden | log back in and run my inventory parser and console reloadui |
| 00:35.21 | kaiden | open the saved variable and the inventory data is there |
| 00:35.25 | kaiden | so seperately both work.. |
| 00:35.38 | kaiden | however if i try to run one after i've already ran another and have data stored about it, i can't |
| 00:36.43 | Kaso | hmm |
| 00:38.06 | kaiden | the inventory takes hold of the nested varname[realmname][charname]["Inventory"] |
| 00:38.38 | Kaso | cant really say much without seeing the code |
| 00:40.56 | Kaso | do you really need the varibiles to be accessible cross-realm? if not why not just use savedvariblespercharater instead of the var.realmname.charname stuff |
| 00:42.08 | kaiden | http://paste.lisp.org/display/21930 |
| 00:42.36 | kaiden | well i dont really need them accessible crossrealm i guess |
| 00:44.34 | kaiden | i wanted them to be so that i could broaden the horizons of this mod to include character profiling |
| 00:45.10 | Kaso | i see |
| 00:46.23 | kaiden | nice, whenever i did them both at the same time within the same session it allowed me to output both inventory and guild info |
| 00:46.53 | Kaso | so, umm, it worked fine? |
| 00:46.57 | kaiden | Kaso, do you know how i can kill the variable that way when i /console reloadui it wipes it? |
| 00:47.03 | kaiden | well i'm about to find out if it was a fluke |
| 00:47.18 | Kaso | fred = nil ? |
| 00:47.59 | kaiden | tried that, wont wipe it when i /console reloadui all the old data is still there lol |
| 00:48.09 | kaiden | well i'll be damned |
| 00:48.11 | kaiden | now it's working |
| 00:48.23 | kaiden | well wiping it is, maybe it was how i was nesting the variables |
| 00:48.46 | Kaso | im quite confused now |
| 00:49.25 | kaiden | why are you confused.. i'm the one doing the work *sniff*:P |
| 00:49.50 | kaiden | ok back to error #1, once i write the variable, i can't do anything else after /console reloadui'ing it |
| 00:50.09 | Kaso | cant do anything else to it, what to you mean |
| 00:50.20 | kaiden | so i can do /sf inventory and have it shove out all my inventory data do the sfData variable which goes to the Suckerfish.lua savedvariables file |
| 00:50.39 | kaiden | so after i console reloadui i do a /sf guild and then console reloadui to get it to shove out all guild info |
| 00:50.49 | kaiden | but it never does, since i had already done the other one for some reason |
| 00:51.51 | Kaso | do you have Inspector (Gadget) |
| 00:52.36 | Kaso | its an awesome tool that lets you inspect vars |
| 00:54.28 | kaiden | now i do, maybe i can figure out what the heck is going on with it |
| 00:55.10 | Kaso | if its not being saved to the file it cant be being inserted to the table correclty |
| 01:00.37 | JoshBorke | ( cladhaire ): morning |
| 01:01.25 | cladhaire | evening. |
| 01:03.47 | AnduinLothar | anyone remember how they changed SPELLCAST_FAILED? |
| 01:05.17 | JoshBorke | they did? |
| 01:05.23 | Mikk1 | it now triggers on OOM failures too |
| 01:05.47 | kaiden | whoot i fixed it :) |
| 01:07.37 | Cairenn | sigh ... http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5334 |
| 01:08.12 | AnduinLothar | so... Think it's worth it if I super break reverse compat with a new version of sky? |
| 01:08.22 | AnduinLothar | can't make the name any worse i spose |
| 01:08.46 | AnduinLothar | merged the party and raid channels, no good way to do it and save compat |
| 01:08.47 | kaiden | Cairenn, double dog dare you to reply with just no |
| 01:09.01 | Cairenn|afk | oh so very very tempting |
| 01:09.08 | AnduinLothar | added auto-join registration and user override.. |
| 01:09.15 | kaiden | Cairenn|afk: , can i? ;) |
| 01:09.25 | Cairenn|afk | anyway, out for a while, going to watch the fireworks |
| 01:09.30 | Cairenn|afk | be my guest |
| 01:09.34 | kaiden | enjoy |
| 01:09.52 | AnduinLothar | fireworks ont he 1st? |
| 01:09.59 | Cairenn|afk | ... |
| 01:10.03 | Cairenn|afk | <== Canadia |
| 01:10.09 | Cairenn|afk | <== Canadian* |
| 01:10.14 | Cairenn|afk | July 1st |
| 01:10.22 | Cairenn|afk | Canada Day |
| 01:10.29 | kaiden | bah Josh! |
| 01:10.31 | AnduinLothar | right right, competition :P |
| 01:10.34 | kaiden | :p |
| 01:10.51 | kaiden | i even had to add my .....'s to make it 10 chars! |
| 01:10.57 | AnduinLothar | US has a day, we need one too. and Earlier! |
| 01:11.03 | AnduinLothar | jk :P |
| 01:11.37 | JoshBorke | lol kaiden |
| 01:12.09 | JoshBorke | lol kaiden |
| 01:13.54 | kaiden | hrm.. are there no similar functions like GetContainerNumSlots that function on the bank? |
| 01:14.03 | kaiden | *goes to get banknon to hack away at it* |
| 01:14.51 | AnduinLothar | NUM_BANKGENERIC_SLOTS |
| 01:15.14 | kaiden | yeah but how do i interact with the bank to get item id's etc? |
| 01:15.17 | AnduinLothar | GetNumBankSlots() |
| 01:15.24 | AnduinLothar | Spam: |
| 01:15.25 | kergoth | yay for the clue-by-four |
| 01:15.26 | kaiden | bankslots only tells how many you have |
| 01:15.27 | AnduinLothar | function GameAmp.ScanBank() |
| 01:15.28 | AnduinLothar | for currSlot = 1, NUM_BANKGENERIC_SLOTS do |
| 01:15.28 | AnduinLothar | GameAmp.GetItemLinkFromText( GetInventoryItemLink( "player", BankButtonIDToInvSlotID(currSlot) ) ); |
| 01:15.28 | AnduinLothar | end |
| 01:15.28 | AnduinLothar | for bagNum = 5, GetNumBankSlots()+4 do |
| 01:15.28 | AnduinLothar | for currSlot = 1, GetContainerNumSlots(bagNum) do |
| 01:15.30 | AnduinLothar | GameAmp.GetItemLinkFromText( GetContainerItemLink(bagNum, currSlot) ); |
| 01:15.32 | AnduinLothar | end |
| 01:15.33 | kaiden | ah thank you :) |
| 01:15.34 | AnduinLothar | end |
| 01:15.36 | AnduinLothar | end |
| 01:15.54 | kaiden | i didn't know that i could use the same container functions to work on the bank |
| 01:16.14 | AnduinLothar | np, i had the file open |
| 01:16.50 | kaiden | ohhhh i see |
| 01:16.58 | kaiden | so when the bank opens it takes up bag slots 5+ |
| 01:17.03 | kaiden | ok :) i get it |
| 01:28.44 | Mikk1 | myDebug is nice for dumping var contents too imo. At least with my patches =) -> http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=5116 |
| 01:28.58 | kergoth | goblin or gnomish engineering? opinions? |
| 01:29.03 | chuckg | Gnomish! |
| 01:29.08 | AnduinLothar | Mikk, that's what Fire is for |
| 01:29.35 | Mikk1 | And that is? =) |
| 01:29.59 | Fanook | goblins make bombs, gnomes make gadgets, including a battle chicken |
| 01:30.46 | kaiden | Anduin, do you mind looking at a bit of code and maybe telling me what the heck i'm doing wrong |
| 01:30.57 | kaiden | i'm getting nil for the itemName's when enumerating my bank slots |
| 01:30.59 | kaiden | lol |
| 01:31.21 | AnduinLothar | can't right now, pvping |
| 01:31.37 | Mikk1 | pah you're a paladin |
| 01:31.47 | kergoth | gnomish is what most pick, which is why i'm tempted not to.. and i like things that go boom.. *ponders* |
| 01:31.55 | AnduinLothar | ...so... the first gm on this server was a pally |
| 01:32.18 | Mikk1 | i just mean that you target yourself and click the heal button once in a while. plenty of time to look at code =) |
| 01:32.48 | AnduinLothar | right, but i'm already debugging APB currently |
| 01:32.51 | Mikk1 | ah |
| 01:33.03 | Mikk1 | yeah i see how adding a third to that kind of multitask might hurt |
| 01:33.03 | JoshBorke | ( Mikk1 ): psh, i'm too busy spamming my heal-whoever-needs-it-most-macro |
| 01:33.06 | Mikk1 | fourth, counting irc |
| 01:33.28 | AnduinLothar | i can only multitask so far |
| 01:33.32 | Mikk1 | aye =) |
| 01:34.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge netcurse (n=net@dslb-088-064-176-136.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:35.10 | AnduinLothar | so... SPELLCAST_FAILED doesn't seem to happen when i jump or something.. |
| 01:35.28 | Mikk1 | that's _ABORTED or something innit? |
| 01:36.15 | JoshBorke | SPELLCAST_INTERUPTED |
| 01:36.18 | JoshBorke | or whatever |
| 01:36.25 | AnduinLothar | yeah, same event handler |
| 01:36.34 | AnduinLothar | elseif ( event == "SPELLCAST_FAILED" or event == "SPELLCAST_INTERRUPTED" ) then |
| 01:36.50 | AnduinLothar | oh wait.. |
| 01:37.11 | AnduinLothar | no wonder |
| 01:37.25 | AnduinLothar | silly me was using UnitInParty("party1") to check party |
| 01:37.45 | AnduinLothar | er |
| 01:37.47 | AnduinLothar | wait.. |
| 01:37.52 | AnduinLothar | that should work anyway. |
| 01:37.55 | AnduinLothar | well |
| 01:37.59 | AnduinLothar | not in a raid |
| 01:39.14 | Mikk1 | GetNumPartyMembers()>0 or GetNumRaidMembers()>1 |
| 01:39.40 | AnduinLothar | ya |
| 01:39.57 | AnduinLothar | well you can still be in a raid of 1 |
| 01:40.07 | Mikk1 | aye but ... |
| 01:40.16 | Mikk1 | i'm assuming you're doing something party-useful |
| 01:40.23 | Mikk1 | which being alone in a raid isn't |
| 01:40.44 | AnduinLothar | testing purposes |
| 01:40.50 | Mikk1 | true |
| 01:41.07 | Mikk1 | So what's "fire"? |
| 01:42.07 | AnduinLothar | tree visualization of lua tables |
| 01:42.36 | AnduinLothar | Cosmos DevTools |
| 01:42.43 | Mikk1 | ah |
| 01:43.05 | AnduinLothar | not on any other site cause Earth sux too much to put with it :P |
| 01:44.20 | AnduinLothar | course Alex left a lot of things unfinnished |
| 01:44.32 | AnduinLothar | so it doesn't get much love |
| 01:44.38 | AnduinLothar | still good for tables tho |
| 01:45.01 | AnduinLothar | for frames i'd use iiel's devtools tho |
| 01:46.13 | Mikk1 | myDebug kicks ass for tables imo |
| 01:46.17 | Mikk1 | and is standalone =) |
| 01:47.16 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 01:47.56 | AnduinLothar | ss? |
| 01:48.30 | JoshBorke | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?s=26bfe9f05bc1faf8d876ab02144aae59&id=5116 |
| 01:49.31 | AnduinLothar | ah nice. Yeah Fire's the orig. but looks like yours has more features |
| 01:49.58 | Mikk1 | Actually it's Scheid's. But his didn't actually display values. My patch does. |
| 01:50.02 | JoshBorke | ugh, this whole arranging of bars SUX |
| 01:51.18 | AnduinLothar | make it use table.subtable evaluation and i'll be happy |
| 01:52.02 | AnduinLothar | can look up Sea.util.getValue if you want the optimized way how to parse it |
| 01:53.07 | Mikk1 | good point. i have an implementation of that in wowbench |
| 01:53.17 | Mikk1 | of subtable lookup that is |
| 01:53.18 | Mikk1 | not sea |
| 01:53.20 | Mikk1 | =) |
| 01:55.21 | JoshBorke | ( cladhaire ): bug in clique! |
| 01:57.44 | cladhaire | JoshBorke: what? |
| 02:00.17 | JoshBorke | posting it on your bug reports now. basically 2 things: 1) scroll offset for friendly is being applied to hostile when you switch. |
| 02:00.21 | Kaelten | is there anyway to force a button to show its highlight texture? |
| 02:00.37 | JoshBorke | other thing is the settings aren't being correctly populated when you open/close clique without closing the spellbook |
| 02:01.11 | AnduinLothar | what's the lua reg ex for 1 or 0 |
| 02:01.17 | JoshBorke | ?? |
| 02:01.19 | Mikk1 | [01] |
| 02:01.34 | AnduinLothar | no no, 1 or 0 of a char |
| 02:01.49 | Mikk1 | ah |
| 02:01.53 | AnduinLothar | is it -? |
| 02:02.01 | JoshBorke | it's ? |
| 02:02.01 | Mikk1 | think so. checking |
| 02:02.03 | JoshBorke | isn't it? |
| 02:02.05 | Mikk1 | "-" i mean |
| 02:02.07 | AnduinLothar | i know + is 1 or more.. |
| 02:02.14 | JoshBorke | - is match the smallest amount |
| 02:02.16 | AnduinLothar | and * is 0 or more |
| 02:03.06 | JoshBorke | pretty sure it's ? |
| 02:03.09 | AnduinLothar | ok.. can i do 1 or 0 match the most? |
| 02:03.19 | Mikk1 | duh. it's plain old "?" |
| 02:03.23 | AnduinLothar | k |
| 02:03.27 | JoshBorke | what do you mean AnduinLothar? |
| 02:03.33 | Mikk1 | "-" is smallest amount like josh said |
| 02:03.58 | JoshBorke | ( cladhaire ): was going to post a patch, but no time :-D |
| 02:04.08 | AnduinLothar | ? is what i wanted |
| 02:04.20 | AnduinLothar | 1 or 0 |
| 02:04.26 | AnduinLothar | - irs 0 or 1 |
| 02:04.31 | AnduinLothar | er |
| 02:04.36 | AnduinLothar | ya |
| 02:04.39 | AnduinLothar | er |
| 02:04.57 | AnduinLothar | + is - greedy |
| 02:05.34 | JoshBorke | ... |
| 02:06.30 | JoshBorke | ko |
| 02:07.19 | AnduinLothar | >.< i dunno |
| 02:07.33 | JoshBorke | what are you trying to match? |
| 02:08.10 | AnduinLothar | i got it |
| 02:08.29 | Mikk1 | please wipe this discussion from your conscience </cide> |
| 02:08.47 | Mikk1 | ~help emulate |
| 02:09.19 | AnduinLothar | consiousness? |
| 02:09.25 | Mikk1 | err yes |
| 02:09.34 | Mikk1 | conscience works too tho for you |
| 02:09.45 | AnduinLothar | what's that sposed to mean.. |
| 02:10.06 | Mikk1 | if we forget all about it, you don't have to feel bad about inflicting it upon us =) |
| 02:10.35 | JoshBorke | bye all, have a great 4th (or 1st for those that it applies to ;-]) |
| 02:12.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 02:14.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Deathdwarf (i=Se7eN@c-66-176-42-72.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 02:14.27 | Deathdwarf | hi |
| 02:14.32 | Deathdwarf | can anyone help me with a macro? |
| 02:14.40 | Deathdwarf | #wowi-lounge |
| 02:14.47 | Deathdwarf | sorry didnt mean to do that |
| 02:15.02 | Deathdwarf | if UnitType("player") then CastSpellByName("Rupture") else CastSpellByName("Slice and Dice") end |
| 02:15.18 | Deathdwarf | trying to make a macro that does rupture if its a real player unit |
| 02:15.24 | Deathdwarf | if not use slice and dice |
| 02:15.42 | Deathdwarf | dont know what function im supposed to use |
| 02:16.24 | AnduinLothar | UnitIsPlayer('target') |
| 02:16.51 | Deathdwarf | awesome |
| 02:16.52 | Deathdwarf | thanks |
| 02:16.56 | Deathdwarf | appreciate the help |
| 02:20.12 | AnduinLothar | i cast 1 spell... Assertion: index < (sizeof(m_members) / sizeof(m_members[0])) |
| 02:32.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 02:38.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight__ (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 02:42.03 | Deathdwarf | if UnitIsPlayer('target') then CastSpellByName("Thistle Tea") else CastSpellByName("Feint(Rank 4)") end |
| 02:42.10 | Deathdwarf | how do i get it to use thistle tea |
| 02:42.17 | Deathdwarf | the way i tried doesnt work |
| 02:42.23 | Deathdwarf | since it isnt a spell |
| 02:42.25 | Mikk1 | you need to find it in your inventory first |
| 02:42.25 | Deathdwarf | =/ |
| 02:42.31 | ckknight | just so everyone over here knows, Ace2 is now officially in Beta :-) |
| 02:42.49 | Deathdwarf | is there a way i dont have to have the tea in the same spot |
| 02:42.55 | Deathdwarf | or the macro to manually find it |
| 02:43.01 | Deathdwarf | and if so whats the function for it |
| 02:43.02 | Deathdwarf | please |
| 02:43.08 | Legorol | thre isn't one |
| 02:43.12 | Legorol | you either have to: |
| 02:43.14 | Mikk1 | the macro needs to run around in your inventory and look for it |
| 02:43.17 | Deathdwarf | darn |
| 02:43.20 | Legorol | 1) get an addon that adds extra functions to macros |
| 02:43.21 | Mikk1 | or you keep it in a fixed spot |
| 02:43.24 | Legorol | 2) as Mikk1 said |
| 02:43.29 | Legorol | 3) keep it in a fixed slot |
| 02:43.47 | Deathdwarf | can i make it somehow |
| 02:43.53 | Deathdwarf | to use the actionbar |
| 02:43.54 | Legorol | there are addons that add functions such as UseItemByName("Thistle Tea") |
| 02:44.07 | Legorol | hm, that'd work, that's a good idea! |
| 02:44.14 | Legorol | if you drag Thistle Tea on to your action bar |
| 02:44.21 | Legorol | then you just do UseAction(number) |
| 02:44.27 | Deathdwarf | :D |
| 02:44.27 | Legorol | where number is the id of the action bar slot |
| 02:44.29 | Deathdwarf | ty |
| 02:44.33 | Deathdwarf | yeah |
| 02:44.37 | Deathdwarf | ive used that function before |
| 02:44.46 | Legorol | ok, i think that'll work, great idea there |
| 02:44.48 | Deathdwarf | forgot what it was exactly tho, thanks |
| 02:45.50 | Deathdwarf | anyone know |
| 02:46.05 | Deathdwarf | what button # starts from the top bar |
| 02:46.09 | Deathdwarf | above your regular bar |
| 02:46.19 | Deathdwarf | you know the one you enable in your interface option |
| 02:46.32 | Deathdwarf | the one on the left side |
| 02:46.38 | Fanook | 13, i think |
| 02:46.58 | Deathdwarf | ok thank you |
| 02:47.02 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:47.45 | AnduinLothar | nm, that is only bar # |
| 02:48.36 | Legorol | Deathdwarf: if you mean the Blizzard Bottomleft Multibar, |
| 02:48.45 | Legorol | that one is the 6th bar afaik |
| 02:48.58 | Legorol | therefore it would start from 61 |
| 02:49.29 | Deathdwarf | yeah |
| 02:49.31 | Deathdwarf | thats it |
| 02:49.31 | Mikk1 | i think this is on the wiki |
| 02:50.03 | Mikk1 | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_TYPE_ActionSlot |
| 02:50.21 | Mikk1 | Deathdwarf: You're aware of http://www.wowwiki.com/World_of_Warcraft_API right? |
| 02:51.12 | Deathdwarf | no |
| 02:51.16 | Deathdwarf | ill go check it out, thank you |
| 02:57.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Deathdwarf (i=Se7eN@c-66-176-42-72.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 02:58.00 | Mikk1 | purl, emulate Cide. |
| 02:58.01 | purl | Please remove this discussion from your consciousness. |
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| 02:59.35 | Mikk1 | purl, action slots are at http://www.wowwiki.com/API_TYPE_ActionSlot |
| 02:59.37 | purl | ACTION slots are at http://www.wowwiki.com/API_TYPE_ActionSlot |
| 02:59.42 | Mikk1 | argh |
| 03:00.24 | Mikk1 | purl, "action slots" is at http://www.wowwiki.com/API_TYPE_ActionSlot |
| 03:00.25 | purl | Mikk1: what are you talking about? |
| 03:00.35 | Mikk1 | purl, actionslot is at http://www.wowwiki.com/API_TYPE_ActionSlot |
| 03:00.36 | purl | Mikk1: okay |
| 03:00.43 | Mikk1 | Where is actionslot? |
| 03:00.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Deathdwarf (i=Se7eN@c-66-176-42-72.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 03:00.52 | Mikk1 | purl, where is actionslot? |
| 03:00.55 | purl | Mikk1: what are you talking about? |
| 03:01.03 | kergoth | purl, actionslot? |
| 03:01.05 | purl | [actionslot] at http://www.wowwiki.com/API_TYPE_ActionSlot |
| 03:01.06 | kergoth | purl, what is actionslot? |
| 03:01.09 | purl | kergoth: what are you talking about? |
| 03:01.12 | kergoth | :P |
| 03:01.21 | Mikk1 | ~actionslot |
| 03:01.22 | purl | hmm... actionslot is at http://www.wowwiki.com/API_TYPE_ActionSlot |
| 03:01.35 | Mikk1 | ~api |
| 03:01.55 | Mikk1 | purl, api is at http://www.wowwiki.com/World_of_Warcraft_API |
| 03:01.56 | purl | ...but api is already something else... |
| 03:02.04 | Mikk1 | ~api? |
| 03:02.34 | AnduinLothar | purl, what is api? |
| 03:02.36 | purl | AnduinLothar: what are you talking about? |
| 03:02.41 | AnduinLothar | :P |
| 03:02.47 | AnduinLothar | fine, i'll leave it to you |
| 03:02.58 | AnduinLothar | Assertion Failed! |
| 03:02.58 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:02.58 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:02.59 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:02.59 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:03.00 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:03.02 | AnduinLothar | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:05.25 | Mikk1 | ~wowapi |
| 03:05.26 | purl | it has been said that wowapi is at http://www.wowwiki.com/World_of_Warcraft_API |
| 03:05.31 | Mikk1 | ~wowbench |
| 03:05.32 | purl | rumour has it, wowbench is at http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWBench |
| 03:05.38 | Mikk1 | ~botsnack |
| 03:05.38 | purl | :), Mikk1 |
| 03:06.19 | kergoth | ~remulate |
| 03:06.21 | purl | THE DIB! HE'S MISSING! THEY'VE TAKEN HIM AND DRAINED HIM OF HIS _sweet sweet blood candies_ |
| 03:07.40 | Mikk1 | ~emulate AnduinLothar |
| 03:07.41 | purl | Contrary to what most people believe, "standalone" does not mean that an AddOn is better nor easier to use than one with dependencies. |
| 03:07.56 | kergoth | ~emulate kergoth |
| 03:07.57 | purl | ACTION hacks on OZ, OE, bitbake, and other projects. |
| 03:08.00 | kergoth | bah |
| 03:08.42 | Mikk1 | purl, emulate Mikk1 |
| 03:08.44 | purl | action is annoying. |
| 03:08.48 | Mikk1 | damn =) |
| 03:08.51 | kergoth | hehe |
| 03:08.53 | kergoth | ~emulate kergoth |
| 03:08.54 | purl | ACTION hmms. |
| 03:10.45 | Mikk1 | "is also" only appends stuff |
| 03:11.46 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:13.48 | Mikk1 | Ah. "||" |
| 03:13.55 | End | ~emulate End |
| 03:13.56 | purl | ACTION gets distracted. |
| 03:14.13 | kergoth | nice. |
| 03:14.21 | kergoth | ~emulate kergoth |
| 03:14.25 | purl | Hmm... I know I was supposed to be doing something. I wonder what it was. |
| 03:14.29 | kergoth | yay |
| 03:15.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 03:17.26 | Mikk1 | purl, emulate ckknight |
| 03:17.27 | purl | <- ckknight has disconnected (Read error: 104 (Connections reset by peer)) |
| 03:17.32 | End | haha |
| 03:20.05 | ckknight | lol. |
| 03:20.10 | ckknight | it's true. |
| 03:20.14 | ckknight | my connection is bad. |
| 03:26.02 | Tain | That damn peer is nothing but trouble. |
| 03:26.39 | Mikk1 | All I want to know is how he got gline rights |
| 03:26.47 | ckknight | gline? |
| 03:26.49 | Mikk1 | kline |
| 03:26.53 | ckknight | kline? |
| 03:27.01 | Mikk1 | the oper command to kick people out |
| 03:27.03 | Tain | Federline? |
| 03:27.04 | Mikk1 | i forget |
| 03:27.17 | Mikk1 | the server operator command, that is.. not /kick n so on |
| 03:27.18 | ckknight | what do you mean? |
| 03:27.21 | ckknight | ops? |
| 03:27.37 | Mikk1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:27.55 | Mikk1 | been too long since I was a server operator last =P |
| 03:28.08 | Mikk1 | (yes, of a private network, duh =P) |
| 03:29.23 | gnorlish | there's kline and gline |
| 03:29.49 | Mikk1 | oyea.. gline = network right? |
| 03:30.05 | gnorlish | yes |
| 03:30.51 | mjc | moo |
| 03:31.27 | Mikk1 | purl, emulate mjc |
| 03:31.28 | purl | ACTION moos. |
| 03:31.57 | Mikk1 | purl, news |
| 03:36.48 | ckknight | Ace2: Twice as superior to you than Ace 1! |
| 03:37.20 | hyperChipmunk | now! with more stuck-up snobby developers! |
| 03:37.38 | Mikk1 | purl, what's ace2? |
| 03:37.40 | purl | i guess ace2 is twice as superior to you than ace 1! |
| 03:37.50 | cladhaire | umm. |
| 03:37.55 | cladhaire | ? |
| 03:37.56 | ckknight | lol. |
| 03:38.16 | Tain | haha |
| 03:38.22 | Tain | Ace2Legit2Quit |
| 03:39.00 | ckknight | it's fun to spread self-righteous propaganda! |
| 03:39.34 | AnduinLothar | i'm sure the nazi's felt the same way |
| 03:39.39 | cladhaire | except not at all |
| 03:39.58 | ckknight | we're just fucking around |
| 03:40.10 | cladhaire | i know you are |
| 03:40.14 | cladhaire | but i can still be a spoil sport. |
| 03:40.22 | Tain | And take off the narrow fuzzy mustache, ckknight |
| 03:40.23 | ckknight | hope AnduinLothar knows we're fucking around |
| 03:40.26 | AnduinLothar | just dont fuck yourself in the process |
| 03:40.32 | ckknight | but I get nosebleeds, Tain |
| 03:40.51 | cladhaire | trying to continue a self-righteous agenda which never had any base and still doesn't.. will do nothign to further to project at all. |
| 03:41.46 | Tain | Of course the self-rigteous agenda never actually existed except in the imagination of others. |
| 03:41.55 | Tain | Which means it's funny! |
| 03:41.55 | AnduinLothar | but if you enjoy being an ass, go right ahead. It will brand you as it has others |
| 03:42.01 | cladhaire | well, that's not entirely true =) |
| 03:42.18 | Tain | Some of us can laugh at ourselves in good fun. :) |
| 03:42.22 | ckknight | yea |
| 03:42.36 | AnduinLothar | Rowne was pretty damn self-rightious imo. and it wasn't funny |
| 03:42.43 | cladhaire | well i can laugh at you either way =) |
| 03:42.43 | cladhaire | and i do. |
| 03:42.59 | cladhaire | but spreading bullshit like that (even if you're kidding) is bad(TM) |
| 03:42.59 | ckknight | oh well |
| 03:43.18 | hyperChipmunk | I think it was a snarky shot at the ace attitude of the past |
| 03:43.33 | Tain | It's even more funny when people march out the name of someone who hasn't been around in months and who was simply a single person who happened to use Ace. |
| 03:43.33 | cladhaire | hyperChipmunk: I understand the intent |
| 03:43.37 | cladhaire | the other 30 people in this room may not. |
| 03:43.50 | cladhaire | (43 rather =) |
| 03:43.50 | hyperChipmunk | dude, my coding sux |
| 03:43.57 | hyperChipmunk | I'll be the first to tell ya |
| 03:46.10 | Mikk1 | "emulate rowne" is dull =( |
| 03:46.30 | hyperChipmunk | who was the one who had 'I suck at LUA and I steal other people's code' |
| 03:46.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 03:47.19 | Tain | That was Industrial, hyperChipmunk. I believe. |
| 03:47.25 | ckknight_ | damn connection |
| 03:47.28 | Mikk1 | purl, emulate Industrial |
| 03:47.29 | purl | Ogm teh tpyoas! Mroe ceffein pls! |
| 03:47.50 | hyperChipmunk | yea I thought so too |
| 03:47.55 | hyperChipmunk | but ...ya |
| 03:48.12 | Mikk1 | emulate Mikk1 |
| 03:48.21 | Mikk1 | purl, emulate Mikk1 |
| 03:48.22 | purl | ACTION begs everyone to contribute to WoWBench |
| 03:48.22 | ckknight | use the ~ |
| 03:48.25 | Mikk1 | there we go. |
| 03:48.37 | ckknight | ~emulate ckknight |
| 03:48.39 | purl | <- ckknight has disconnected (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 03:48.53 | ckknight | hehe |
| 03:48.55 | Tain | I'm not a big fan of people changing other people's "emulates" |
| 03:49.07 | Tain | At least not people who are actually around. |
| 03:49.22 | Kaelten | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.22 | ckknight | I don't mind mine, cause my previous one sucked |
| 03:49.29 | hyperChipmunk | you oughtn't emulate yourself |
| 03:49.33 | Tain | I was talking about mine. |
| 03:49.35 | hyperChipmunk | er, write your own emulate |
| 03:49.37 | Tain | ~emulate Tain |
| 03:49.38 | purl | The self-righteous agenda never actually existed except in the imagination of others. |
| 03:49.50 | ckknight | hrm |
| 03:49.51 | Mikk1 | ah, pardon tain. i thought it was amusing. |
| 03:49.52 | Mikk1 | i'll fix |
| 03:50.05 | Mikk1 | (the old one is still there, too) |
| 03:50.15 | Tain | I'm just an asshole though. |
| 03:50.31 | hyperChipmunk | no arguments there |
| 03:50.49 | Mikk1 | ~emulate tain |
| 03:50.50 | purl | On the list of people I'll accept development criticism from, you fall somewhere between Clippy, the MS Office assistant, and a bag of rocks. |
| 03:50.54 | gnorlish | i like you guys because you're often available to receive input |
| 03:51.04 | gnorlish | which is the opposite of smug |
| 03:51.05 | ckknight | :-) |
| 03:51.08 | gnorlish | and whatnot |
| 03:51.18 | hyperChipmunk | lol that's great |
| 03:51.19 | Tain | haha damnit I forget who I was directing that quote to. |
| 03:51.23 | gnorlish | although i remember reading long ago about how people didn't like "ace people" |
| 03:51.33 | ckknight | I'm a good ace people I think |
| 03:51.33 | hyperChipmunk | gnorlish: that was before I came around |
| 03:51.40 | Mikk1 | funny how one guy gets to be representative of a whole community |
| 03:51.45 | ckknight | but yes, some were dicks |
| 03:51.53 | Tain | Some still are! |
| 03:51.53 | hyperChipmunk | my awesomeness made us not smug anymore |
| 03:51.56 | ckknight | but the current team is pretty good |
| 03:52.05 | Tain | But we're all out to have a good time. |
| 03:52.06 | ckknight | except cladhaire of course |
| 03:52.07 | ckknight | jk |
| 03:52.41 | Mikk1 | ~emulate Cladhaire |
| 03:52.42 | purl | Good code is something to appreciate like a work of art. |
| 03:52.45 | Mikk1 | says it all really =) |
| 03:53.09 | ckknight | ah, computer science. We call it science, we pretend it's art, but deep down, we know it's just math. |
| 03:53.13 | End | ~emulate End |
| 03:53.14 | purl | ACTION gets distracted. |
| 03:54.23 | cladhaire | meh |
| 03:54.24 | cladhaire | *shrug* |
| 03:57.24 | hyperChipmunk | ~emulate hyperChipmunk |
| 03:57.25 | purl | ACTION kidnaps you to test Bulkmail. |
| 03:57.31 | hyperChipmunk | lol |
| 03:57.41 | hyperChipmunk | ~factinfo emulate hyperChipmunk |
| 03:57.41 | purl | emulate hyperchipmunk -- last modified at Sun May 28 08:43:27 2006 by Thiana!n=Alisandr@c-24-147-41-254.hsd1.nh.comcast.net; it has been requested 12 times, last by hyperChipmunk, 16s ago. |
| 03:57.48 | hyperChipmunk | =P |
| 03:59.25 | hyperChipmunk | you will test ALL the features! |
| 03:59.55 | hyperChipmunk | AND you will read the README! |
| 04:00.39 | gnorlish | i got sick of people in my family asking for computer help a couple days ago |
| 04:00.47 | gnorlish | i asked my mom if she ever read the README.TXT |
| 04:00.50 | gnorlish | and she asked why |
| 04:01.11 | gnorlish | i left without speaking and told her i gave up forever |
| 04:01.55 | Mikk1 | how could you tell her that if you weren't speaking? |
| 04:02.13 | End | tell her what? |
| 04:02.34 | End | the only thing he told was before he stopped speaking |
| 04:02.37 | End | FOREVER |
| 04:02.45 | Mikk1 | oh, i see, he stopped speaking just now |
| 04:02.46 | Mikk1 | ok |
| 04:03.37 | Tain | Oh shit Die Hard just started. Now I can't go to sleep. |
| 04:05.22 | gnorlish | multitasking |
| 04:05.24 | gnorlish | i fail at it |
| 04:05.39 | gnorlish | i wrote it |
| 04:05.41 | gnorlish | smartass |
| 04:09.00 | Mikk1 | did you put it in readme.txt? =) |
| 04:09.23 | Mikk1 | Damn, I need more coffee. Getting silly. |
| 04:20.29 | Gngsk | delirious? |
| 04:22.23 | Mikk1 | delicious! |
| 04:25.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge AnduinLothar (n=KarlKFI@ip68-106-219-78.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 04:42.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 04:55.33 | AnduinLothar | everyone fell asleep, eh? |
| 04:56.01 | Fanook | dude, the CBC rocks! it's showing the original Godzilla movie, subtitled |
| 05:13.51 | Cairenn | nope, not everyone |
| 05:15.47 | AnduinLothar | how were the fireworks? |
| 05:16.05 | Cairenn | excellent |
| 05:17.05 | Cairenn | one of the best shows they've put on in years |
| 05:17.11 | AnduinLothar | good stuff |
| 05:17.19 | AnduinLothar | I always enjoy the ones at the Rose Bowl |
| 05:17.59 | AnduinLothar | bigger every year |
| 05:20.01 | Cairenn | yeah, bet those are pretty amazing |
| 05:21.40 | AnduinLothar | yeah, always fun seeing who the cops catch starting their own little ones too. since fireworks are illegal in CA w/o a permit |
| 05:21.49 | Cairenn | *nod* |
| 05:23.51 | AnduinLothar | I'm like, dude, you have one of the largest fireworks show in the contry right in front of you... your $10 sparkler isn't making it any more exciting |
| 05:24.13 | Cairenn | yeah, really |
| 05:25.32 | AnduinLothar | perhaps i'm just lashing out from my deprrived childhood ;) |
| 05:25.47 | Cairenn | *chuckle* |
| 05:31.06 | Tain | My uncle used to light our sparklers with a welding torch. |
| 05:31.11 | Tain | It was an odd childhood. |
| 05:33.02 | Cairenn | lol |
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| 05:38.42 | ckknight | Cairenn, is it possible for two or more authors to share one project on WoWI? |
| 05:38.50 | Cairenn | not per sae |
| 05:39.10 | ckknight | hrm |
| 05:39.10 | Cairenn | unless you are FA, in which case you can mess with other FA projects (shhhhhh) |
| 05:39.19 | Cairenn | it's coming, but not here yet |
| 05:39.21 | ckknight | wish there was... |
| 05:39.29 | ckknight | can I be an FA, then? |
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| 06:23.58 | AnduinLothar | anyone made Frame Backdrops in lua? |
| 06:24.31 | ckknight | I have |
| 06:24.41 | ckknight | for FuBar |
| 06:25.02 | ckknight | it puts multiple textures on the panels |
| 06:25.31 | ckknight | this also allows me to have jagged panels but a smooth texture |
| 06:26.03 | AnduinLothar | got sample code? |
| 06:28.50 | ckknight | hang on. |
| 06:30.46 | ckknight | http://pastebin.ca/76882 |
| 06:30.52 | ckknight | it's in the :UpdateTexture() method |
| 06:33.27 | AnduinLothar | thx |
| 06:41.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin (n=Wobin@221.221.38.202) |
| 06:44.48 | AnduinLothar | completely non-intuitive |
| 06:49.28 | AnduinLothar | is it just me or did they fix ANCHOR_CURSOR already |
| 06:49.43 | AnduinLothar | with SetClampedToScreen |
| 06:50.36 | AnduinLothar | ah http://www.wowwiki.com/API_Frame_SetBackdrop is very helpful |
| 06:52.49 | AnduinLothar | excpet those backslashes are backwards |
| 06:53.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 07:02.14 | AnduinLothar | can you set a name for a backdrop? |
| 07:02.23 | AnduinLothar | guess not, huh |
| 07:04.10 | Wobin | I think it's too intergrated into a frame to do that |
| 07:04.23 | AnduinLothar | ya, i'll have to make a new underlay frame |
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| 07:31.57 | wereHamster | how can I say something that starts with a '/' ? other than SendChatMessage? |
| 07:32.30 | AnduinLothar | not easily |
| 07:34.37 | Mikk1 | umm wait i've done this |
| 07:36.12 | Mikk1 | AnduinLothar: There's nothing wrong with using "/" instead of "\\". It's easier =) |
| 07:36.23 | Mikk1 | WoW likes both |
| 07:38.23 | Mikk1 | nah. maybe i was thinking of IRC... i can't recall how i could possibly have managed a "/" as the first letter of the line in WOW |
| 07:38.43 | Mikk1 | /easy in irc =) |
| 07:39.00 | Wulf4 | / /test in irc. but doesn't work in wow |
| 07:39.33 | Mikk1 | prepending a space works in wow |
| 07:42.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 07:45.58 | wereHamster | can someone please reply to this thread that he should at least describe what doesn't work so I can fix it? http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=407042&p=1&tmp=1#post407042 |
| 07:48.13 | Wulf4 | is there any way to find out who is able to loot some mob? e.g. who can loot a core hound in mc? |
| 07:48.27 | Shadowed | nope |
| 07:48.44 | Shadowed | FFA is the easiest way to prevent issues like that |
| 07:49.18 | Cairenn | wereHamster: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=407370&tmp=1#post407370 |
| 07:49.21 | AnduinLothar | SetLootThreshold(0) is my fav |
| 07:49.31 | wereHamster | Cairenn, thanks |
| 07:49.37 | AnduinLothar | roll on greys |
| 07:49.38 | Cairenn | don't thank me until you read it |
| 07:49.52 | wereHamster | I did ;) |
| 07:49.55 | Shadowed | AnduinLothar: I'd imagine that would get annoying after a while in MC :p |
| 07:50.02 | krka | you go girl! |
| 07:50.03 | AnduinLothar | it can be |
| 07:50.30 | Mikk1 | Helps to have a master looter set that has a "give to random toon" option in his loot window |
| 07:50.32 | Shadowed | I think i'll go with the easier FFA loot! |
| 07:50.35 | AnduinLothar | the other way to do it is to use masterloot with loot threshold at 0 |
| 07:50.52 | Shadowed | Does that even work? |
| 07:50.56 | Mikk1 | yes |
| 07:50.56 | AnduinLothar | yup |
| 07:50.59 | Shadowed | nice |
| 07:51.23 | AnduinLothar | then perhaps make an addon that auto randoms it off and sellects loot distributionwhen you loot |
| 07:51.51 | AnduinLothar | SetMastLooter("name", 0) |
| 07:51.53 | AnduinLothar | i think |
| 07:52.01 | AnduinLothar | Master* |
| 07:53.20 | Thrae | AnduinLothar: Well I mostly figured out a way to move the anchor of tooltips with ANCHOR_CURSOR. |
| 07:53.43 | End | hmm, couldn't find a SetMasterLooter |
| 07:53.45 | Thrae | s/move the anchor/change the offset/ |
| 07:54.23 | Shadowed | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_SetLootMethod ? |
| 07:54.27 | End | yeah |
| 07:54.32 | End | that looks like the one |
| 07:54.39 | Shadowed | SetLootMethod( "master", "name" ); |
| 07:54.40 | Thrae | By putting one hidden tooltip with text, backdrop, and backdropborder all set to alpha 0 and letting that be ANCHOR_CURSOR, then setting GameTooltip relative to that, you can set offsets. |
| 07:55.12 | AnduinLothar | that's ugly |
| 07:55.15 | Thrae | Except now GameTooltip has defaulted to fading out and I can't figure out how it's doing it without setting off its OnHide handler. |
| 07:55.28 | AnduinLothar | :Fade() |
| 07:55.49 | Thrae | I hooked :FadeOut() yeah, but it's not being called. |
| 07:57.04 | Thrae | AnduinLothar: And that above method may seem messy, but there are a lot of messy things about the GameTooltip, I've found. |
| 07:57.30 | AnduinLothar | it's not really that bad |
| 07:58.00 | AnduinLothar | why not OnUpdate relocate? |
| 07:59.21 | Thrae | Because then we're talking about resetting the position in LUA what, every 100 milliseconds at best? |
| 08:00.00 | AnduinLothar | not any worse than the C function. you could always make a timer that updates every x frames or ever x seconds |
| 08:02.48 | Thrae | I'll have to do some tests. |
| 08:13.30 | KaeltenAway | gnight all |
| 08:49.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Costas (n=chatzill@ppp122-64.adsl.forthnet.gr) |
| 08:52.35 | Costas | morning. How can i change dynamically the text show in a frame. Is there a command that refreshes the frame and thus receives the new text variable ? |
| 08:53.48 | Kirov | What text? |
| 08:55.06 | Mikk1 | The UI doesn't tie UI widgets to Lua variables like that |
| 08:55.17 | Mikk1 | You have to do :SetText() on the widget to make it change |
| 08:55.25 | Mikk1 | http://www.wowwiki.com/Widget_API |
| 08:56.53 | Costas | FontString:SetText("text") |
| 08:57.13 | Costas | where fontstring is the name that i've given to that element right ? |
| 08:57.17 | Mikk1 | yes |
| 08:57.18 | Kirov | Yes |
| 08:58.55 | Costas | Thanks |
| 09:00.42 | krka | what? |
| 09:00.53 | Mikk1 | yay |
| 09:01.04 | Mikk1 | think you could fix support for myDebug in faiap? =) |
| 09:01.30 | Mikk1 | i could embed it, i know, but then i'd have to update faiap all the time =P |
| 09:01.52 | krka | send me the update and i'll post it on wowi |
| 09:02.12 | krka | i.e i wanna know the name of the editbox |
| 09:02.20 | Mikk1 | sec |
| 09:02.32 | krka | you've looked at the default-hooks-file, right? |
| 09:02.43 | Mikk1 | nope |
| 09:02.50 | Mikk1 | myDebugScriptsFrameEditBox |
| 09:03.03 | Mikk1 | myDebug is on wowi |
| 09:03.15 | Mikk1 | you might like it, actually 0) |
| 09:03.34 | krka | can you modify defaulthooks.lua in FAIAP to include mydebug and test it? |
| 09:03.39 | Mikk1 | sure |
| 09:03.50 | krka | should be straightforward how to add it |
| 09:03.58 | krka | all my code is self documenting ;) |
| 09:07.08 | AnduinLothar | uh huh.. |
| 09:07.50 | Mikk1 | That's a myth tbqph =P |
| 09:10.27 | Mikk1 | krka: seems to work. addon is "myDebug", editbox is "myDebugScriptsFrameEditBox" |
| 09:11.05 | krka | cool |
| 09:11.17 | krka | i'll try to remember to update faiap when i have the time |
| 09:11.31 | krka | "seems to work"? |
| 09:11.38 | krka | it should be fairly obvious |
| 09:11.40 | Mikk1 | It's not barfing at me |
| 09:11.45 | Mikk1 | And stuff gets indented and colored |
| 09:12.03 | krka | thus, it works :) |
| 09:19.50 | krka | i don't :) |
| 09:19.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Andalia (n=xx@p54ADC304.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:21.49 | Andalia | hi. Could one of you please tell me the name of the raidwarning frame? i need to resize it a bit |
| 09:22.10 | AnduinLothar | still int he UIErrorsFrame right? |
| 09:26.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 09:26.11 | Andalia | its not the error frame |
| 09:27.16 | Andalia | ok its called RaidWarningFrame ^^ took a look at ora rs |
| 09:27.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower_ (n=MentalPo@host-70-45-81-92.onelinkpr.net) |
| 09:30.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge snurre (n=snurre@AVelizy-153-1-24-199.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:47.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Atog (n=Atog@195-144-094-012.stat.adsl.xs4all.be) |
| 09:48.10 | Atog | Hi there. |
| 09:48.50 | Atog | has anyone tried responding to a player joining your raid? I'm getting all kinds of events firing, but none useful to me. |
| 10:05.15 | Wulf4 | you get chat messages like "*** joined the raid" |
| 10:05.40 | Mr_Rabies2 | skibbidy doo waaawaaaaaa |
| 10:07.50 | Atog | hmm, true |
| 10:08.06 | Atog | let me look up that event |
| 10:15.41 | AnduinLothar | is there a way to ban names with wild cards in irc? |
| 10:18.54 | Corrodias | IRC? i'm not aware of an ircd that allows that character in a name. you can use wildcards in ban masks. |
| 10:19.32 | Atog | Indeed, what Corrodias said. I bet chat clients might have options for banning nicks banning a given mask on sight, though, if that may help. |
| 10:19.47 | Atog | remove banning from that last sentence, somewhere. |
| 10:29.26 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Costas (n=chatzill@ppp122-64.adsl.forthnet.gr) |
| 10:34.04 | Mikk1 | Hrm? Parse chat messages? |
| 10:34.13 | Mikk1 | Surely there's got to be a useful event |
| 10:35.48 | Mikk1 | RAID_ROSTER_UPDATE |
| 10:35.54 | Mikk1 | And then scan the raid roster |
| 10:39.28 | Tentacled | Hmmm. Is there an easy formula to calculate current health/mana regeneration rate? Basing on Spirit and whatnot... |
| 10:39.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gngsk (n=gngsk@c-68-33-204-115.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 10:40.00 | Mikk1 | Priests tick spi/4+something, everyone else ticks spi/5+something |
| 10:40.03 | Mikk1 | mana that is |
| 10:40.27 | Mikk1 | But then there's all the permanent and temporary mana/5s buffs etc |
| 10:40.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 10:40.48 | Mikk1 | Probably easier to just measure it in-game if you really want to know |
| 10:40.55 | Mikk1 | (There's mods that do it already) |
| 10:40.55 | Tentacled | hmm, that +something bothers me. :> |
| 10:41.01 | Mikk1 | it's lowish |
| 10:41.20 | Mikk1 | on the order of 10-20 or so. lower for priests, higher for others |
| 10:41.27 | Tentacled | At 192 spirit I get 62 mana/sec... You may be right, indeed. |
| 10:41.28 | Mikk1 | pretty sure it can be googled |
| 10:41.52 | Mikk1 | mana/tick you mean? |
| 10:41.58 | Tentacled | I'm trying to tinker together a "drink whatever won't get wasted" little addon :) |
| 10:42.05 | Tentacled | perhaps /tick, yes. |
| 10:42.17 | Tentacled | (or perhaps I'm reinventing the wheel here?) |
| 10:42.26 | Mikk1 | Just measure tickrate for the char |
| 10:42.44 | Mikk1 | Easier than trying to look through equipment and buffs and whatnot |
| 10:43.42 | Mikk1 | You can get spi easily enough but getting mana/5s is quite a bit of work |
| 10:45.50 | Tentacled | mainly what I'm looking for is "okay, Sweet Nectar gives 1344 mana over 27 sec, but how many will I regen at the same time when drinking?". Doing the calculation as "if maxmana-mana>1344 then drink sweet nectar" would be plainly silly, after all. |
| 10:47.05 | Mikk1 | sec, looking up event |
| 10:48.21 | Mikk1 | you want to look at UNIT_MANA and UNIT_HEALTH |
| 10:48.54 | Tentacled | I know that, I didn't want to send you searching instead of doing it myself :) I'm just ranting. ^^; |
| 10:49.20 | Atog | Tentacled: wowwiki has excellent information about the spirit rate |
| 10:49.31 | Mikk1 | if the previous value is lower than the current value, and if the time since the last event is less than 3 seconds, you do a sliding average .. something like avg = avg*0.9 + ((curval-prevval)*0.1/time_elapsed) |
| 10:49.33 | Tentacled | explaining my motives, like all villains do, etc.:) |
| 10:49.35 | Atog | and yes, there's a lot of addons that'll tell you your exact mana regen. |
| 10:50.16 | Atog | so yoink one of those, rip it apart. |
| 10:55.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaso (n=Jonathan@host81-159-2-210.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 11:01.08 | Zino | Anyone know if there is a constant for max level? if( UnitLevel("player") == 60 ) feels like a silly thing to do when it will only break when the expansion ships. (No, I don't have unpacked UI to grep in right now.) |
| 11:03.20 | Atog | Zino: any addon is likely to break when the expansion ships. |
| 11:03.22 | krka | why not define your own constant for that? |
| 11:03.58 | krka | or do it like this: /who 61 |
| 11:04.04 | Zino | Atog: Yes, but this is a change we know is coming, the other ones are hard to prepare for. :) |
| 11:04.07 | krka | if it returns no results, the max level is 60 :P |
| 11:04.14 | Zino | :-P |
| 11:05.24 | Wobin | krka: Or you're on a new server |
| 11:06.30 | Mikk1 | There is a MAX_PLAYER_LEVEL |
| 11:06.34 | Mikk1 | defined in ReputationFrame |
| 11:08.13 | AnduinLothar | think IsUnitOnQuest works on raid members? |
| 11:08.23 | Atog | probably not. |
| 11:08.36 | Atog | you'd need to try it out, though. |
| 11:09.04 | AnduinLothar | well it doesn't give me an error |
| 11:09.16 | AnduinLothar | would have to find someone with the same quest to make sur ehto.. |
| 11:09.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge mjc (n=mjc@c-66-176-173-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 11:10.04 | Mikk1 | roll a nub. fastest =) |
| 11:11.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge SinePi (i=sinus@dsr5.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 11:11.23 | AnduinLothar | yeah. i'll have to make a new on on my first account |
| 11:11.40 | AnduinLothar | good thing i dont have the max already |
| 11:11.42 | Atog | make two, one on each account |
| 11:11.51 | AnduinLothar | already have one on the other |
| 11:11.52 | Atog | so you can easily test it |
| 11:12.10 | Atog | and let us know :) |
| 11:13.08 | AnduinLothar | oh nm, got a lvl 5 |
| 11:13.12 | AnduinLothar | that'll do |
| 11:13.37 | AnduinLothar | bah have 2 on a diff cserver, w/e |
| 11:15.59 | AnduinLothar | too bad you cant share quests in raid |
| 11:16.16 | Zino | Mikk1: Thanks! I'll have a look at that. |
| 11:16.43 | Atog | AnduinLothar: you can, if you're in the same party |
| 11:17.05 | krka | how will this expansion work btw? will there be special expansion servers? with option of transfering from current to exp? |
| 11:17.22 | krka | or will they share servers |
| 11:18.23 | Kaso | I think i read it'll be the same servers just those who dont buy wont be able to experance the new content |
| 11:18.40 | Atog | like the new areas, and 61-70 BGs |
| 11:19.00 | AnduinLothar | correct |
| 11:19.20 | krka | will old users still be able to level to 70? |
| 11:19.25 | AnduinLothar | no |
| 11:19.31 | Atog | there won't be many, then :) |
| 11:19.38 | AnduinLothar | that's the idea |
| 11:19.43 | krka | and can't buy BoE items that drop from exp-content? |
| 11:19.54 | AnduinLothar | not sure on that one |
| 11:19.55 | Atog | they'd probably be min lev req 61 or so, Krka |
| 11:20.00 | Zino | AL: Sure about that? I haven't seen any statement from blues to that effect. |
| 11:20.14 | AnduinLothar | fairly positive |
| 11:20.26 | Zino | OK. |
| 11:26.20 | AnduinLothar | that's an affermative. it does work for raidID's |
| 11:26.43 | Mikk1 | even if in a different party? |
| 11:26.48 | AnduinLothar | yup |
| 11:26.51 | Mikk1 | cool |
| 11:26.59 | AnduinLothar | lemme double check |
| 11:27.18 | AnduinLothar | doh |
| 11:27.22 | AnduinLothar | scratch that |
| 11:27.33 | AnduinLothar | swapped them once too many times |
| 11:27.54 | AnduinLothar | works on raid id's but only if they're in your party |
| 11:29.12 | Mikk1 | so basically "works for any unit id as long as it results in a party member" then, probably |
| 11:29.26 | Mikk1 | i.e. "target", "pettarget", "mouseover".. whatever |
| 11:29.30 | AnduinLothar | right |
| 11:29.35 | AnduinLothar | prolly anyway |
| 11:29.38 | Atog | why do you need, AnduinLothar |
| 11:29.39 | Mikk1 | yea |
| 11:29.43 | Atog | why do you need it, even. |
| 11:29.46 | Atog | I should get more sleep. |
| 11:29.52 | AnduinLothar | cause I'm making PartyQuests work in raids |
| 11:30.07 | Atog | it's a party helper addon? |
| 11:30.25 | AnduinLothar | allows you to see other people's quests |
| 11:30.30 | Atog | I see. |
| 11:30.35 | Atog | can't be fixed, then. |
| 11:30.50 | AnduinLothar | and announces their raid progress |
| 11:31.10 | AnduinLothar | oh, it'll work just fine. just means i have to send the data and cant use the built in func |
| 11:31.25 | Atog | .. using the channel the mod already uses. I see. |
| 11:31.58 | AnduinLothar | just means more work for me |
| 11:32.03 | Atog | *nod* |
| 11:41.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 11:44.46 | Atog | ugh. |
| 11:44.59 | Atog | I'm trying to write a mod that checks whether people that join your raids have pvp on |
| 11:45.27 | Atog | except I can't find an event that fires when a person in actually in your raid |
| 11:46.24 | Atog | I tried monitoring RAID_ROSTER_CHANGED but that's just horrible, and monitoring chat for "xxx has joined the raid group" doesn't work either, cause the person isn't actually in your group when you get that message |
| 11:51.20 | Kaso | whats wrong with raid roster? |
| 11:52.06 | Mikk1 | oooo i need to do that in my mod |
| 11:52.09 | Atog | it fires whenever a person joins, leaves, is disconnect, sometimes for no reason |
| 11:52.11 | Mikk1 | invite -> check pvp -> kick |
| 11:52.18 | Mikk1 | and? |
| 11:52.25 | Mikk1 | better too often than too late |
| 11:52.31 | Mikk1 | just scan the raid for pvpers each time it happens |
| 11:52.34 | Atog | well, there's no arguments |
| 11:52.44 | Mikk1 | sometimes nubs flag pvp after joining too |
| 11:52.44 | Atog | hmm.. could do that, I guess, good idea. |
| 11:53.19 | Atog | but RAID_ROSTER_CHANGED fires often, I was looking for a way to do it efficiently |
| 11:53.34 | Atog | then again, checking 40 flags is probably nothing too bad. |
| 11:53.46 | Atog | oh, let me know if you require code from what I'm writing. |
| 11:54.05 | Mikk1 | doubt it can be that bad. i mean.. consider what unitframes are doing. |
| 11:55.31 | Atog | what are unitframes doing? I'm not familiar with them |
| 11:55.44 | Mikk1 | you have 40 of them in a raid |
| 11:55.50 | Mikk1 | they poll everyone's mana, health, debuffs .... |
| 11:55.56 | Mikk1 | and often |
| 11:56.10 | Atog | how often? |
| 11:56.32 | Mikk1 | how often do the health bars in your raid member view update? |
| 11:56.45 | Mikk1 | that's how often |
| 11:56.48 | Atog | point taken |
| 11:56.54 | Atog | still, I'm doing exactly the same |
| 11:57.04 | Mikk1 | aye but only with one flag, and faily seldom |
| 11:57.09 | Mikk1 | fairly* |
| 11:57.16 | Atog | ok, I'll code that |
| 12:00.00 | Atog | wait. |
| 12:00.17 | Atog | you'll need to keep track of your messages, then |
| 12:00.24 | Atog | since it fires off just about everything |
| 12:01.18 | Atog | otherwise you'd get 40 messages or so when you change loot type with a pvp person in the raid |
| 12:01.39 | Mikk1 | hm? 40? |
| 12:02.30 | Mikk1 | if you're really worried, you can delay the poll ~1 second from the last message |
| 12:03.28 | Mikk1 | Just register an OnUpdate handler and give it a countdown variable that you reset to ~50ish each time the event fires |
| 12:03.39 | Mikk1 | if it reaches 0, you check for pvp |
| 12:03.53 | Atog | oh, that does sound a lot cleaner. |
| 12:04.30 | Atog | when does "OnUpdate" fire? |
| 12:04.35 | Mikk1 | Each time the screen in repainted |
| 12:04.38 | Mikk1 | is* |
| 12:04.46 | Mikk1 | so 20-100 times a second |
| 12:05.01 | Mikk1 | You can work off a timer difference too if you like |
| 12:05.16 | Atog | I prefer that. |
| 12:05.22 | Mikk1 | arg1 in OnUpdate is the time since the last frame |
| 12:05.44 | Mikk1 | in seconds |
| 12:05.49 | Mikk1 | (with millisecond precision) |
| 12:06.01 | Atog | thanks, I'll try that then |
| 12:07.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Costas (n=chatzill@ppp122-64.adsl.forthnet.gr) |
| 12:10.57 | Costas | i would like to initalize some variables the moment the addon loads. Should i use the onLoad script event of the main frame or is there a better place to do it ? |
| 12:11.34 | Mikk1 | define moment the addon loads |
| 12:11.42 | Mikk1 | you could just initialize them as the Lua code is loading |
| 12:12.10 | Mikk1 | myVar = "foo" |
| 12:12.12 | Mikk1 | function something() |
| 12:12.14 | Mikk1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:12.28 | Atog | are you looking for saved variables, Costas? |
| 12:12.33 | Costas | in the first lines of the lua file you mean yes ? |
| 12:12.37 | Mikk1 | yes |
| 12:12.50 | Mikk1 | OnLoad is another good place if you want to make sure your whole addon is loaded |
| 12:12.59 | Mikk1 | ADDON_LOADED too |
| 12:13.20 | Mikk1 | plenty of options =) |
| 12:15.39 | Costas | i have my lua file and i declare some variables, then i call a function and that function just outputs a message. |
| 12:16.03 | Costas | i got an error msg though. "Attempt to call global <method name> (a nil value) |
| 12:16.41 | Mikk1 | you can't call a function that's further down in the file |
| 12:16.51 | Mikk1 | it hasn't been defined yet |
| 12:17.22 | Costas | the call for the method should be in the last line ? |
| 12:17.39 | Mikk1 | or just put it in OnLoad |
| 12:17.45 | Costas | it there a more elegant way to do it ? |
| 12:17.46 | Mikk1 | putting it after the function you need works too |
| 12:17.47 | Atog | Costas: are you sure you spelled it right? |
| 12:17.51 | Mikk1 | OnLoad is more elegant |
| 12:17.51 | Costas | onLoad of which widget ? |
| 12:17.57 | Mikk1 | of whatever |
| 12:19.04 | Costas | btw it works if i call the function at the last line of lua code |
| 12:19.29 | Mikk1 | the last line would probably be after the function you need, yes ;) |
| 12:21.32 | Costas | it doesn't work on the onLoad of my main frame. I got the same error msg "Attempt to call global...." |
| 12:22.05 | Costas | is the UI loading before the lua code by any chance ? |
| 12:23.24 | Mikk1 | is your mainframe XML file before the Lua file in the .toc perhaps? |
| 12:26.12 | Costas | Yes you are right. Is there a proper order these two should be included in the .toc file or it doesn't matter ? (in my case just put the lua include first) |
| 12:26.40 | Mikk1 | all depends on what your mod needs |
| 12:26.45 | Mikk1 | there's no "right way for wow" |
| 12:27.27 | Costas | hehe thnks. It works now |
| 12:35.22 | Atog | so to register the OnUpdate() event, I toss it in the xml file? |
| 12:35.38 | Atog | and it'll be called whenever the screen refreshes? |
| 12:36.06 | Atog | cause it's not being called for me :/ |
| 12:36.21 | Kaso | in your scripts section you have <OnUpdate> Your_OnUpdate_Function(arg1) </OnUpdate> |
| 12:36.23 | zenzelezz | frame has to be visible or something... I think... for it to be called |
| 12:36.44 | Atog | aha. must be it |
| 12:38.20 | Mikk1 | pretty common to create a dummy frame with only an OnUpdate handler in it |
| 12:38.27 | Mikk1 | always shown, but contains nothing |
| 12:39.18 | Mikk1 | arf... what do I have to tickle to get an editbox to let me use alt+arrow up/down to walk around in history? |
| 12:39.24 | Mikk1 | except historyLines="123" |
| 12:39.31 | Atog | thanks people, works like a charm now |
| 12:40.44 | AnduinLothar | alt+arrow up/down onyl works on your history btw |
| 12:40.54 | AnduinLothar | well |
| 12:41.05 | AnduinLothar | nm |
| 12:41.11 | Mikk1 | arf.. perhaps i shouldn't pass nil to AddHistoryLine |
| 12:41.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (i=andrew@124.197.8.250) |
| 12:54.03 | Costas | i've setup an array with string values, If i try to reference a value from within the array it works. If i take a value and make it itself a new array (in a way to have a 2d data structure) and try to refence with the same way get an empty string |
| 12:56.07 | wereHamster | Costas, wow.pastebin.com |
| 12:56.44 | wereHamster | post a snippet of your code |
| 13:05.37 | Costas | pastebin not working |
| 13:06.43 | Costas | http://rafb.net/paste/results/uRTCsc29.html |
| 13:07.16 | Costas | if i comment line 2 i get the right msg. If not i get an empty string |
| 13:08.50 | Kaso | Youre trying to print an array? |
| 13:09.32 | AnduinLothar | you cant |
| 13:10.09 | AnduinLothar | use Sea.io.printTable or some other such addon that formats it |
| 13:12.48 | Costas | i used message() as a debugging aid but nevertheless even if i assign the fooArray[1] in a text label i will still get an emptry string |
| 13:12.57 | SinePi | It works! It works! I don't believe it! ... And they said an imitation diamond wasn't good at all. |
| 13:13.14 | SinePi | (beer for whomever catches that quote. :)) |
| 13:14.22 | krka | DoTT |
| 13:14.30 | SinePi | good. :) |
| 13:14.36 | krka | 2ez |
| 13:14.42 | Kaso | Costas im confused, as it stands your code creates fooArray={{"sub1","sub2"},"foo2"} what do you want it to make? |
| 13:14.48 | SinePi | you get a beer when you're in Poland. :> |
| 13:15.02 | krka | yay |
| 13:15.40 | SinePi | Another bit of time saved, then. An automatic food/drink chooser is ready :) |
| 13:16.10 | krka | cool |
| 13:16.32 | krka | using the best possible that doesn't "overheal"? |
| 13:16.40 | SinePi | that's the "econo" mode, yes. |
| 13:16.57 | SinePi | And calculating in the full 30-sec eating/drinking time and its natural regen. |
| 13:17.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge quoin (n=mhowell@220-244-239-114-sa-pppoe.tpgi.com.au) |
| 13:17.55 | krka | assuming you want to wait that long |
| 13:18.05 | krka | the other mode is for minimizing downtime? |
| 13:18.07 | SinePi | the "optimal" mode allows for overhealing - just chooses what ends up closest to the maximum. |
| 13:18.21 | SinePi | no, minimizing downtime would be simply eating the best food you have. |
| 13:18.29 | krka | true |
| 13:19.03 | SinePi | so if food1 left you with 200 missing hp, but food2 overhealed by 100, it'd choose food2. |
| 13:19.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [Wobin] (n=Wobin@221.221.16.235) |
| 13:20.13 | SinePi | And, the last but not least, I get to be my own first test subject! yay! :> |
| 13:20.34 | SinePi | oh, and it prefers conjured items over bought ones, too. :P |
| 13:21.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kalroth (n=kalroth@port114.ds1-hj.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 13:28.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge yammygirlcoding (n=hoho@17924061.rjo.virtua.com.br) |
| 13:28.43 | yammygirlcoding | morning all !! |
| 13:28.56 | AnduinLothar | that it is.. |
| 13:29.01 | AnduinLothar | shoulda gone to sleep |
| 13:30.27 | yammygirlcoding | : p |
| 13:31.06 | AnduinLothar | in fact.. i'll do that now.. |
| 13:31.16 | AnduinLothar | night all |
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| 13:45.27 | Mikk1 | SinePi: Now extend it to bandages plx =) |
| 13:45.40 | Mikk1 | Not that I use anything other than RC at 60 but my alts use whatever |
| 13:46.16 | zenzelezz | WTB better than Heavy Runecloth bandages |
| 13:46.19 | SinePi | doesn't sound like a bad idea. |
| 13:46.38 | Mikk1 | zenzelezz: unh huh |
| 13:47.13 | zenzelezz | what? Heavy Runecloth heals me at most close to 45%, usually less |
| 13:47.15 | Mikk1 | something that requires e.g 1 mooncloth for every 20 RC to make 10 mooncloth-reinforced runecloth bandages would work for me |
| 13:47.22 | Mikk1 | i was agreeing |
| 13:47.44 | Mikk1 | my main is an epixd warlock. he has truckloads of hp =P |
| 13:47.51 | zenzelezz | :-o |
| 13:50.36 | Mikk1 | hahaha whoops, mydebug-1.3-mikk-20060701.zip has a 226kb "myDebugFrame.xml.lua" in it |
| 13:50.59 | Mikk1 | was thinking "how the hell did the zip manage to shrink after i added FAIAP" but .. well.. =) |
| 14:06.43 | zenzelezz | "Corpse of Epeen"... that must have hurt |
| 14:13.00 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Mikk1 (i=bofh@81-233-236-26-no19.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 14:17.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ven (n=ven@dyndsl-085-016-159-147.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
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| 14:29.37 | zinor | hello all |
| 14:43.59 | zinor | we got to talk w/ the warhammer people this weekend |
| 14:44.22 | zinor | the guy couldn't really tell us anything about interface customization but from the answers we were given it sounds like they're trying to do similar to WoW |
| 14:48.18 | zenzelezz | what will the game itself be like? |
| 14:52.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge mjc (n=mjc@c-66-176-173-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 14:52.30 | Kaso | Internal Bag Errror egk! never seen that before |
| 14:53.52 | zenzelezz | I've seen it in laggy circumstances |
| 15:05.50 | zinor | zenzelezz, its a lot like wow, but more mass scale pvp oriented |
| 15:05.52 | zinor | gtg |
| 15:06.11 | zenzelezz | not a game I need to bother with then |
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| 15:35.42 | qw` | I'm having difficulties with the new Nurfed DKP. SQL syntax error on line 3. Can't find any information on it on the webpage either. |
| 15:47.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 15:49.18 | zenzelezz | "[SERVER] Shutdown in 15:00" |
| 15:49.33 | zenzelezz | looks like someone's chewed on Silvermoon's hardware |
| 15:50.30 | Kirkburn | But it was so tasty! |
| 15:50.47 | Kirkburn | I'm back in the UK :D |
| 15:52.19 | zenzelezz | grats |
| 15:58.41 | zenzelezz | I can't seem to find a status update on why they're shutting down though... there's a thread from this night about it being restarted, but I thought that was already done long ago |
| 16:01.49 | Kirkburn | Straange |
| 16:02.11 | Kirkburn | I got back at about 2am in the morning ... first thing in the morning, I went orienteering :P I'm tired .... |
| 16:06.32 | zenzelezz | wonder if it's something to do with the Frankfurt center, seems to be a few of those servers down |
| 16:10.16 | Kaso | there was a list of "laggy" realms, it matched almost word for word with a list of the second frankfurt IP range |
| 16:11.08 | zenzelezz | I can't remember seeing Silvermoon on it; although I must admit I don't tend to check before the realm goes down :-p |
| 16:13.03 | zenzelezz | I hate the Blizzard forum error page... no "try again" link, and the URL is different from the forum URL, so you can't just hit reload either |
| 16:13.06 | Kaso | ha ha, my realm irc channel is scroling faster than a molten core combat log |
| 16:13.40 | zenzelezz | which one do you play on? |
| 16:13.46 | Kaso | Genjuros |
| 16:13.58 | Kaso | Frankfurt 2 :> |
| 16:14.15 | zenzelezz | eh, funky... realm status page returned every server three times |
| 16:14.26 | Kaso | Though i have had sub 100 pings and no disconnects all this time |
| 16:14.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 16:14.49 | zenzelezz | yeah, I've been having very good latency lately, right up until they took it down ;) |
| 16:15.01 | zenzelezz | but the server went offline twice (at least) last night |
| 16:16.55 | zenzelezz | somehow my LFG channel's last 10 minutes were mostly Blizzard/Thundgot bashing |
| 16:20.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn2 (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 16:20.05 | zenzelezz | hehe, the Silvermoon thread on the realm status forum has had ~5000 hits since the shutdown message started being spammed in-game |
| 16:27.49 | Kirkburn2 | That's odd, wonder why I'm gettind DCed |
| 16:30.27 | zenzelezz | No net for you! |
| 16:30.40 | Kirkburn2 | =( |
| 16:31.57 | Cairenn | oh good, he's gone again ... now, don't anyone tell him, but I've actually set chanserv up to auto-dc kirk every time he joins ... muwhahahahaha |
| 16:34.44 | Kaso | ha ha ha |
| 16:35.07 | Kirkburn | You're sooo mean! |
| 16:35.23 | Cairenn | believe it! |
| 16:35.35 | Kirkburn | I do =) |
| 16:36.02 | Kirkburn | How's your weekend going? |
| 16:36.18 | Cairenn | good :) You must be happy to be home finally |
| 16:36.50 | Kirkburn | Just slightly! |
| 16:39.00 | Cairenn | :) |
| 16:54.29 | Atog | does anyone have a good resource for frames/xml? I'm completely lost. |
| 17:05.37 | Kirkburn | Well it didn't take long for that F1 Grand Prix crash |
| 17:05.55 | Cairenn | =/ |
| 17:13.19 | zenzelezz | F1 races are supposed to have a few crashes; preferably one in the first turn after they start, to awaken the crowd |
| 17:13.30 | zenzelezz | the vehicles are designed for it anyhow |
| 17:14.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 17:16.02 | MentalPower | Atog: wowwiki? |
| 17:19.57 | Kirkburn | This was a big crash :P |
| 17:20.07 | Kirkburn | Who was it who was trying to fix ChatBox? |
| 17:23.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaso (n=Jonathan@host81-159-2-43.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:25.36 | MentalPower | ok, this made me laugh |
| 17:25.38 | MentalPower | http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general-en&t=1101228&p=1&tmp=1#post1101228 |
| 17:25.47 | zenzelezz | Kirkburn: the more, the merrier! |
| 17:25.56 | zenzelezz | it's fun when only half the cars finish |
| 17:26.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kaso| (n=Jonathan@host81-159-1-84.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:26.54 | Kirkburn | Well, you're not gonna be disappointed zenzelezz :P |
| 17:27.18 | zenzelezz | :( |
| 17:27.33 | zenzelezz | MentalPower: hehe... no power for cooling; sounds like a good reason to shut down the servers :) |
| 17:27.42 | Kirkburn | For goodness sake, Telia really need to do better with their datacentres |
| 17:28.01 | MentalPower | yep |
| 17:28.09 | zenzelezz | quite |
| 17:28.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 17:28.29 | Kirkburn | Many, nay, most of the problems the EU gets isn't Blizzard's fault :/ |
| 17:29.09 | zenzelezz | " You can wait 15 minutes to prevent hardware dmg tho? hoax." |
| 17:29.21 | Kirkburn | *sigh* |
| 17:29.40 | zenzelezz | and people wonder why there are so many conspiracy theoriest floating around |
| 17:29.48 | zenzelezz | *theories |
| 17:29.57 | Kirkburn | heh ... theorists too :) |
| 17:30.42 | Kirkburn | Someone should organise a visit to a hosting facility for that guy |
| 17:31.16 | Cairenn | his mind is made up, don't confuse him with the facts |
| 17:32.13 | Kirkburn | hehe |
| 17:32.20 | MoonWolf | hmmm |
| 17:32.34 | MoonWolf | can i get a link to whatever you are talking about, sounds like a fun read. |
| 17:32.51 | Kirkburn | Aye, good post Legorol |
| 17:33.01 | Kirkburn | http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general-en&t=1101228&p=1&tmp=1#post1101228 |
| 17:33.40 | Kirkburn | This is why they should move the servers to the UK =) |
| 17:34.05 | Kirkburn | (and away from Telia, natch...) |
| 17:34.38 | zenzelezz | " Is this a cover up? are they repairing the lagging servers and making this up so they dont have to admit they were too lazy to go look for a broken router for 6 days? I hope so!" |
| 17:34.50 | zenzelezz | these people make me question "human intelligence" |
| 17:34.57 | MoonWolf | some people have no idea how datacenters work. |
| 17:35.20 | zenzelezz | HAY I fixxed our home netwrk so STFU NOOB!!!! |
| 17:35.43 | Kirkburn | I don't particularly, but I can at least surmise there's a difference between internal system cooling and air conditioning systems |
| 17:36.10 | zenzelezz | " Eta?" <--- would it be wrong of me to quote that post, seeing how it is the European forums, saying "I don't think the ETA had anything to do with it"? |
| 17:36.28 | MoonWolf | yes, but funny non the less. |
| 17:36.47 | Kirkburn | oh lol, NOW I get you zenzelezz :O |
| 17:37.12 | Kirkburn | It must've been Basque Separatists! |
| 17:37.31 | MoonWolf | I bet it was the IRA |
| 17:38.00 | MoonWolf | they demand seperate irish servers. |
| 17:38.05 | Kirkburn | ;) |
| 17:38.51 | zenzelezz | I also find it funny how they all speak of an "ISP"; like all they provide was bandwidth |
| 17:40.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 17:40.41 | zenzelezz | back to England, and all you got was this unreliable connection Kirk :-/ |
| 17:45.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=legorol@cpc2-cmbg6-0-0-cust566.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:46.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaso (n=Jonathan@host81-159-128-225.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:46.44 | Legorol | hmm.. people are complaining about Telia again |
| 17:46.57 | Legorol | anyone here familiar with big European providers? |
| 17:47.02 | Cairenn | hi Legorol |
| 17:47.05 | Legorol | hi |
| 17:47.10 | Legorol | is Telia really that crappy |
| 17:47.26 | Thrae | Legorol: Hey, you made the GameTooltip psuedo code on wowwiki, right? |
| 17:47.31 | Legorol | i did |
| 17:48.07 | Legorol | are you attempting to blackmail me? |
| 17:50.10 | Thrae | I'm having a problem with TinyTip. a) When changing the mouse-over target from a unit to a doodad without letting the GameTooltip hide, it seems nothing in Lua is called, so I can't reset my changes to the tooltip. b) When anchoring a tooltip inheriting GameTooltip with ANCHOR_CURSOR and then anchoring GameTooltip to this tooltip, then OnHide is not called for GameTooltip and it ALWAYS Fades out...except :FadeOut() is never called i |
| 17:50.51 | Thrae | I've hooked everything under the sun with no other addons enabled in both cases. |
| 17:59.09 | Kirkburn1 | Legorol, we were just talking about your post |
| 17:59.23 | Legorol | hehe, which one |
| 17:59.30 | Legorol | Thrae: do you mind if i come back to you in a few min. |
| 17:59.34 | Legorol | i am helping someone install Cosmos |
| 17:59.49 | Kirkburn1 | I've no idea what's up with my connection - I've yet to notice any problems other than here :/ |
| 18:00.10 | Kirkburn1 | (http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general-en&t=1101228 <-- this, Leg) |
| 18:00.19 | Thrae | Legorol: I was just throwing it out there...have fun. |
| 18:02.47 | Thrae | You got to wonder about the people that need help installing Cosmos, and their overall computer literacy...I've been doing Helpdesk for many, many years now, and I think even most of those people could install Cosmos by themselves. |
| 18:03.16 | Thrae | Not to say that a lack of computer literacy is "bad", but it IS bad for the person trying to explain things to them ;) |
| 18:05.12 | Legorol | well ok to be honest, some people can install it |
| 18:05.14 | Legorol | but they get errors or problems |
| 18:05.22 | Legorol | also, our install instructions are vague at best |
| 18:05.29 | Legorol | we havea "patcher" that also acts as a web-based installer |
| 18:05.33 | Legorol | and have manual packages |
| 18:05.43 | Legorol | people (understandably) get confused about whether they need to get only the patcher, |
| 18:05.47 | Legorol | or the zip package too, |
| 18:05.54 | Legorol | if so, what do you do with the two, how are they related etc. |
| 18:06.00 | Legorol | we are bad on this front :) |
| 18:07.23 | Thrae | I don't know. If English wasn't their first language, I would understand, but I think the instructions, while not verbose, are enough for Cosmos at least on the website. People just need to read -everything-, especially if they have problems. |
| 18:07.40 | Legorol | Kirkburn1: which particular post of mine in that thread amused you? |
| 18:07.42 | Legorol | i made several |
| 18:07.45 | Thrae | I suppose I might be a little biased to blame the user, because often people call Helpdesk and admit they never touched the manual ;) |
| 18:08.30 | Kirkburn1 | That's odd ... they deleted lots of posts |
| 18:08.46 | Legorol | yeah |
| 18:08.58 | Legorol | Thrae: that really annoys me too |
| 18:09.02 | Kirkburn1 | (it was more the fact that there were stupid conspiracy theories, and that you made a good post =) |
| 18:09.08 | Legorol | actually, the thing that annoyed me most was one guy, who claimed to be "techie" |
| 18:09.23 | Legorol | he said "we techie type people don't read manuals. we try out things first. we use the manual when we get stuck" |
| 18:09.27 | Legorol | as if that was the "pro" way of doing things |
| 18:09.34 | Legorol | that just made my bloodpressure double |
| 18:09.48 | Thrae | Legorol: Did that "techie" end up asking for help? |
| 18:09.55 | Legorol | nope |
| 18:10.13 | Legorol | he was being derogatory at other posters |
| 18:10.23 | Legorol | someone replied with a funny post |
| 18:10.25 | Kirkburn1 | :/ |
| 18:10.32 | Thrae | I've had lots of "techies" who called me before ;) |
| 18:10.37 | Legorol | about how his job is to buy and set up big computers worth $100k each |
| 18:10.55 | Legorol | and that if he didn't read the manual first, his boss would throw him on the street, put oil on him, light him up, and yell "you are fired" at him |
| 18:11.01 | Kirkburn1 | I'm surprised I haven't seen 'Failia' more |
| 18:11.07 | Thrae | Heh |
| 18:11.18 | Legorol | so i thought that was a good response to the "techie" guy |
| 18:11.33 | Kirkburn1 | lol |
| 18:11.53 | Thrae | I love manuals, I store all of them in case the company doesn't allow you to download them in PDF format. |
| 18:13.04 | krka | manuals are the shit |
| 18:13.11 | Legorol | if someone is also in #cosmostesters, please stop me from wrangling this guy |
| 18:13.22 | Legorol | he is quite computer literate actually |
| 18:13.26 | zenzelezz | wrangle 132 plx |
| 18:13.27 | Legorol | he already did a bunch of troubleshooting on his own |
| 18:13.29 | Thrae | I still have my MS-DOS 6.22 manual around somewhere, and a MS-DOS 6.x hintbook ;) |
| 18:13.36 | Legorol | but! he forgot to mention this tiny detail |
| 18:13.38 | Legorol | he already disabled some addons |
| 18:13.47 | Legorol | then he comes into the channel and complains that the patcher loops |
| 18:13.50 | Legorol | i'm like what? |
| 18:14.02 | Legorol | his descriptions are not very comprihensible |
| 18:14.15 | Thrae | Is he ESL? |
| 18:14.56 | Thrae | I give ESL people a break, but if you're not ESL...ugh |
| 18:15.15 | zenzelezz | ESL? |
| 18:15.28 | Thrae | English as Second Language |
| 18:15.59 | krka | http://manual.istheshit.net/ |
| 18:16.00 | zenzelezz | ah |
| 18:16.17 | Legorol | i don't think he is ESL |
| 18:22.19 | Legorol | ok, people who are not computer literate and need help, i can be patient with |
| 18:22.25 | Kirkburn1 | ENL - English Not as a Language? |
| 18:22.31 | Legorol | people who can't describe their problem, it's ok, that is understandable |
| 18:22.36 | Legorol | i can extract it from them |
| 18:22.49 | Legorol | but people who don't follow my instructions, or go and do stuff *in addition* to what i ask them to do.. |
| 18:22.51 | Legorol | i can't understand |
| 18:23.17 | zenzelezz | sounds like a PUG |
| 18:23.31 | Thrae | Legorol: Welcome to my life. |
| 18:23.40 | Legorol | Thrae: is your job a tech support one? |
| 18:23.48 | Legorol | i always thought you guys have a very very hard time.. |
| 18:23.52 | Thrae | Yep. |
| 18:23.58 | Legorol | can you give me a hint then |
| 18:24.07 | Legorol | I have the following problem with tech support in general: |
| 18:24.14 | Thrae | 3 years of Level 1 Helpdesk. |
| 18:24.21 | Legorol | i usually only phone up when i have a problem, where i have already done some analysis myself, |
| 18:24.27 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:24.27 | Legorol | and would like to discuss my findings with someone |
| 18:24.35 | Legorol | what is the best opening line i should use with the level 1 support? |
| 18:24.58 | Legorol | oftentimes, i'm only calling up because i want to pass technical details along to someone who will be able to digest it |
| 18:25.01 | Legorol | e.g. packet captures |
| 18:25.07 | Legorol | but that's not always the case |
| 18:25.20 | Legorol | at any rate, what's my best approach for getting past Level 1, without shouting down the phoneline :) |
| 18:25.23 | Legorol | i dont' want to be rude |
| 18:25.33 | Legorol | i am also happy to first listen to Level 1 and try their suggestions |
| 18:25.39 | Legorol | but when that doesn't work, what's my best next step |
| 18:26.07 | Legorol | oh and i join Cairenn in /comfort-ing you |
| 18:26.18 | Thrae | Well, first you must understand that most Level 1 Helpdesk positions have their hands tied. There is a common procedure for escalation, and that is to make the caller follow everything in the KB (Knowledge Base) beforehand. |
| 18:26.32 | Legorol | ok |
| 18:26.38 | Legorol | that's why i try to play along first, usually |
| 18:26.39 | Cairenn | that and /awe /applaud - having been able to stand doing it that long |
| 18:26.54 | Thrae | The next point in escalation is usually people who MAKE Knowledge Base answers. |
| 18:27.12 | Legorol | ok, how do i get to that point |
| 18:27.28 | Thrae | So even if their steps make absolutely no sense, they have to follow them because the next step are near the KB Admins. |
| 18:27.58 | Legorol | i appreciate that |
| 18:28.06 | Thrae | Most Level 1s won't let you get past, the only alternative is to be pushy and ask to speak to a manager. |
| 18:28.06 | Legorol | here is a common scenario though: |
| 18:28.18 | Thrae | Only a manager has the authority to break the escalation process. |
| 18:28.19 | Legorol | i would call up, describe problem, try the things suggested |
| 18:28.29 | Legorol | ehm.. doesn't the escalation process have an end somewhere? |
| 18:28.33 | Legorol | someone that has technical expertise? |
| 18:28.46 | Legorol | i would've thought "escalation" means eventually i get escalated to someone with technical knowledge |
| 18:28.58 | Thrae | Well, -usually- the case is that there IS no Level 2 Helpdesk. |
| 18:29.01 | Legorol | or does "escalation" in practice mean "dead end"? |
| 18:29.21 | Legorol | ok |
| 18:29.27 | Legorol | well there is a scenario that occurs to me often: |
| 18:29.31 | Legorol | i call up, describe problem. |
| 18:29.34 | Thrae | What happens is that your problem is put into "research", which eventually gets back to the KB Admins (Knowledge Base Administrators) who are the All-Knowing Gods of the Helpdesk department. |
| 18:29.38 | Legorol | have a long conversation, try many troubleshooting steps |
| 18:29.55 | krka | as an example, our projects tech support prefers to give refunds over helping people with extremely uncommon problems |
| 18:30.04 | Legorol | at some point, my time runs out, or the problem isn't resolved, or i need to go off the phone |
| 18:30.09 | Legorol | when i call again, it starts fresh |
| 18:30.15 | Legorol | can you give me a tip for an opening line, |
| 18:30.22 | Legorol | which will avoid having to start from step 0 again when i call again? |
| 18:30.24 | Thrae | And if that Level 1 Helpdesk person missed ANY of the common KB steps, the KB Admins will usually make them call the person back up and do that first. |
| 18:30.30 | krka | say you already talked to them? |
| 18:30.41 | krka | and what you already know/tried |
| 18:30.51 | Legorol | that doesn't tend to work, krka, in my experience :( |
| 18:30.57 | Legorol | i'm lucky if they have a record of my previous call |
| 18:31.02 | Legorol | but often they can't even pull that up |
| 18:31.09 | Thrae | Legorol, that is because some companies barely finance their Tech Support department and give them inferior databases and inferior training. |
| 18:31.17 | Legorol | and from what Thrae said, i get the impression that the level 1 person can't just bypass steps because i say so |
| 18:31.20 | krka | you should write a book on "tech support for smart users" :) |
| 18:31.46 | Thrae | I am very lucky the company I worked with gave a damn, I was allowed to break the escalation process if I knew what I was doing and had extra info for the caller |
| 18:32.06 | Thrae | And I was also allowed to submit KB answers for review, which is very uncommon |
| 18:32.10 | Legorol | ok, in your compnay, what is the "escalation process"? |
| 18:32.21 | Thrae | Legorol: Read what I said before about "research" |
| 18:32.21 | Legorol | level 1 walks the person through the KB steps.. |
| 18:32.24 | Legorol | they don't work, what's next |
| 18:32.40 | Thrae | That's the most common escalation process in Technical Support. |
| 18:32.46 | Legorol | but how can my problem be put on research, if the level 1 doesn't understand my description |
| 18:33.22 | Legorol | say i try to explain to a tech support person at my ISP that their transparent proxy server is altering the Content-Length field of the HTTP header |
| 18:33.27 | Legorol | he will have no idea what i'm talking aobut |
| 18:33.29 | Thrae | If I didn't understand what the heck you were talking about, and the KBs weren't available to explain it to me, and no one else could explain it to me, then I would put it into research anyway. |
| 18:33.59 | Legorol | ok i see |
| 18:34.08 | Legorol | btw, do you mind if i ask a few more questions from you? |
| 18:34.15 | Legorol | i am very intrigued by tech support processes |
| 18:34.19 | Legorol | being usually on the receiving end.. |
| 18:34.26 | Thrae | When dealing with Helpdesk, you must realize that they are almost always trained monkeys. The people that really know what they are doing are rare, overworked, and treated like gods in the department. |
| 18:34.27 | Legorol | .. and getting rather annoyed :) |
| 18:34.41 | Legorol | yes i do realize all that |
| 18:34.48 | Legorol | that's why i was wondering if you have some tips for me |
| 18:34.53 | Thrae | We weren't monkeys where I worked, but that's rare. |
| 18:34.54 | Legorol | ok let's say i was talkig to you on the phone |
| 18:35.05 | Legorol | i can give you two types of descriptions: |
| 18:35.13 | Legorol | 1) description of the *symptom* of the problem |
| 18:35.22 | Legorol | 2) description of the technical detail (usually what i found out) of the problem |
| 18:35.25 | Legorol | which one is better for you? |
| 18:36.15 | krka | 3) describing what you're wearing |
| 18:36.16 | Thrae | Well, after 3 years of Helpdesk, I've taken a "guilty until proven innocent" approach with people's technical knowledge. On the phone of course I remain polite and don't tell them this. |
| 18:36.19 | Legorol | lol krka |
| 18:36.37 | Legorol | Thrae: yeah that's what i run into most of the time, unfortunately :( |
| 18:36.50 | Legorol | so for you, what is the thing that would convince you that you are talking to someone that knows what they are talking about? |
| 18:37.06 | Thrae | It's the law of averages, Legorol. MOST callers who try to talk technical don't know WTF they're talking about. |
| 18:37.15 | Legorol | i understand that |
| 18:37.20 | Legorol | but there surely is a way to get past that |
| 18:37.27 | krka | this line works for me, on so many levels: "damn it, i am smarter than you for gods sake" |
| 18:37.28 | Legorol | is it my tone? my approach? how much detail i gvie? |
| 18:37.40 | Legorol | lol krka, have you actually tried that in practice? |
| 18:37.50 | krka | no :( |
| 18:37.55 | Legorol | hehe |
| 18:38.01 | Legorol | Thrae: i totally understand your point |
| 18:38.06 | Legorol | i also understand the need for that approach |
| 18:38.27 | Legorol | i couldn't agree more with that approach, provided that there is some procedure when teh caller does know what they are talking about |
| 18:38.31 | Thrae | It depends on on the personality of who you're talking to, and how many years of experience they have. If you try to be technical with someone with less then 1 year's experience, and they don't understand you, they will stumble and stick to the KB like glue. If you try to be technical to someone with more then 1 year's experience, they will probably think it's your fault for not explaining yourself well enough. |
| 18:38.43 | Fanook | having worked the other end of the help desk (i.e. someone who got to interpret help desk work orders) i'd love if people just told us what the heck they were trying to do when it all blew up in their face |
| 18:39.35 | Legorol | ok Thrae, thanks for the insights, i have one more question: |
| 18:39.43 | Legorol | how do i avoid having to describe everything again every time i call up |
| 18:39.46 | Thrae | If you actually get someone with an ounce of humility (remember these people get yelled at by customers all day, so a defense mechanism is to have bias and arrogance themselves), then after they still can't understand you, THEN they will allow you to escalate. |
| 18:39.46 | Legorol | i take it there is no way |
| 18:39.58 | Legorol | ok |
| 18:40.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zinor (n=mirc@dslb-088-064-176-136.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:40.26 | Legorol | well the thing that i find irritating is when i have a half hour troubleshooting session, just to call back and start all over again |
| 18:40.30 | Legorol | but i said that already |
| 18:40.40 | Thrae | When you get a trained monkey with Helpdesk, which will be often, the best way will be to LIE. |
| 18:40.54 | Legorol | ok |
| 18:40.54 | Fanook | legorol: get the case number. if they're using a tracking system, i guarantee there will be a tracking number |
| 18:41.00 | Legorol | ok |
| 18:41.05 | Thrae | If you know what you are doing, you can lie and say you already did something, even if you didn't do it. |
| 18:41.06 | Wobin | some helpdesks I've called have a logging process that logged the status of my call, so when I called back, they took off from where we left off. |
| 18:41.09 | Wobin | That was kinda cool |
| 18:41.20 | Legorol | that would be good, wobin |
| 18:41.29 | Legorol | unfortunately, in practice when i call my problem tends to be involved |
| 18:41.34 | Thrae | Yeah Wobin, we were VERY careful about logging calls where I worked. |
| 18:41.36 | Legorol | and thee person on the phone doesn't make adequate notes |
| 18:41.43 | Wobin | It was like "Ah, you called yesterday about the problem and we advised that.... so, from here we can..." |
| 18:41.56 | Legorol | Wobin: wow, that sounds cool |
| 18:42.01 | Legorol | i never get that :( |
| 18:42.07 | Thrae | The next part Legorol, even though you'd be doing their job for them, if your problem is involved, YOU must take notes. |
| 18:42.09 | Wobin | I was very impressed |
| 18:42.18 | Legorol | Thrae: i do |
| 18:42.31 | Thrae | Wobin: Did you call about a computer game? |
| 18:42.32 | Legorol | Wobin: i take it that only works if all helpdesk people have the exact same procedure set in front of them |
| 18:43.02 | Wobin | Thrae: hm, I can't recall the purpose of the call, but it wasn't game related |
| 18:43.10 | Thrae | Well, most Helpdesks have a Knowledge Base across the network they can access, and the KBs are usually set up in chains "if this doesn't work, try KB 34521" |
| 18:43.12 | Legorol | Thrae, more often than not, my problem is that i collected notes and data, and i just simply want to forward that to someone |
| 18:43.18 | Legorol | i don't care if they dont give me an answer on the phone |
| 18:43.26 | Legorol | just take my captured data and attach it to the case |
| 18:43.28 | Wobin | I think it was more techncial in terms of network accesibilty |
| 18:43.40 | Legorol | Thrae: ok i see |
| 18:43.46 | Legorol | well, i will have to develop a good method :) |
| 18:43.53 | Legorol | here is a good story for you guys: |
| 18:44.05 | Legorol | when i call my ISP, my call gets randomly routed to a callcenter either in the UK, or in India |
| 18:44.13 | Thrae | Legorol: Then you have to be pushy. Ask for a manager. If you're nice, say it wasn't the Level 1 Helpdesk guy's fault, then explain your situation. |
| 18:44.14 | Legorol | it depens on time of day, call level etc. |
| 18:44.27 | Legorol | Thrae: ok |
| 18:44.40 | Legorol | anyway, i found out by experience that the Indian call center (naturally) has trained monkeys |
| 18:44.47 | Legorol | whereas the UK one has people who know what they're talking about |
| 18:45.01 | Legorol | what's worse, the Indian one has no access to the notes the UK one made |
| 18:45.03 | Thrae | Oh if it's a callcenter in India, then that's a problem -- usually in those cases, the KB Admins are in the parent company's country of origin |
| 18:45.04 | Legorol | why, i don't understand |
| 18:45.18 | Legorol | so i'd call on monday afternoon, and get to talk to someone in UK |
| 18:45.21 | Wobin | Legorol: Middle Management |
| 18:45.23 | Legorol | he makes extensive notes of my case |
| 18:45.29 | Legorol | i call next day, get to India |
| 18:45.35 | Legorol | they have no record of my call from the day before |
| 18:45.39 | Thrae | So the escalation proces is MUCH more involved |
| 18:45.40 | Legorol | anyway, that was just the annoying part |
| 18:45.51 | Legorol | what was funny is that i found a "workaround" |
| 18:46.01 | Legorol | i call not the tech support line, but the general customer/sales lines |
| 18:46.04 | Legorol | which lands in the UK |
| 18:46.09 | Legorol | i then ask to be transferred to tech support |
| 18:46.10 | Wobin | and get tranferred =) |
| 18:46.14 | Legorol | or perhaps pretend i'm an idiot |
| 18:46.18 | Legorol | and called the wrong line or whatever |
| 18:46.23 | Legorol | Wobin: yep |
| 18:46.30 | Wobin | Tricksy hobbitses |
| 18:46.33 | Thrae | Legorol: The no notes is probably Third-Party Call Center (India) vs In-House (UK) |
| 18:46.40 | Legorol | yah |
| 18:46.44 | Legorol | but that's just unaccaptable |
| 18:46.51 | Legorol | at least they should transfer over their database, overnight |
| 18:46.52 | Legorol | or something |
| 18:47.14 | Thrae | Some companies in-house TS departments hate their third-party call centers because they're stealing their jobs by working for less money |
| 18:47.30 | Thrae | So they "accidentially" make their databases inaccessible and make escalation neigh impossible |
| 18:47.34 | Legorol | well my story ended happily |
| 18:47.44 | Legorol | after a long while i got to a level 2 or 3 support in the UK |
| 18:47.55 | Legorol | had a nice chat about RFCs, HTTP headers, packet dumps etc. with the guy |
| 18:48.08 | Legorol | at the end he set up a forwarding email addy that i could send my packet captures to |
| 18:48.24 | Legorol | and he admitted to me that at first he thought i'm yet anohter luser who somehow luckily got past level 1 |
| 18:48.28 | Legorol | and just has trouble downloading a file |
| 18:48.41 | Legorol | since then, my case has been forwarded to their server support team |
| 18:48.45 | Legorol | who is investigating it, apparently |
| 18:48.49 | Thrae | Which is USUALLY the case, gotta give them credit |
| 18:48.52 | Legorol | i occasionally get a progress report via email |
| 18:48.56 | Legorol | Thrae: yeah i appreciate it |
| 18:49.02 | Legorol | i was very nice to the guy once i found out he has a clue |
| 18:49.07 | Legorol | we had fun on the phone |
| 18:49.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (n=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net) |
| 18:49.54 | Thrae | You must understand about Helpdesk in general -- I've encountered people not once, but multiple times who bought software and had no idea what a computer was. They just expected the software to "work out of the box". |
| 18:50.09 | Legorol | :( |
| 18:50.29 | Thrae | Sometimes these people even get past Level 1 Helpdesk because the trained monkies have no idea how to deal with them, so they get forwarded to managers and KB Admins. |
| 18:50.58 | Legorol | oh, i remember a good one |
| 18:51.05 | Legorol | once i was talking to my mobile phone company's tech support |
| 18:51.14 | Legorol | i don't remember how i got to that stage in the conversation, but |
| 18:51.24 | Legorol | the tech support person kept asking if I was trying to use GPRS or WAP |
| 18:51.34 | Thrae | Many times these customers are also angry and beligerant. |
| 18:51.35 | Legorol | i repeatedly answered i am using WAP *over* GPRS |
| 18:51.47 | Legorol | he couldn't deal with that response |
| 18:51.49 | Legorol | so he asked me again.. |
| 18:51.53 | Legorol | GPRS *or* WAP |
| 18:52.15 | Legorol | after a while i gave up when i realised he will never accept GPRS *and* WAP as an answer |
| 18:52.56 | Thrae | Yeah, typical monkey response -- the KB is wrong, but they don't know why. |
| 18:53.08 | krka | heh lego |
| 18:53.15 | Legorol | i think it's also a problem with PR slogan |
| 18:53.25 | Legorol | they advertise certain features with certain keywords |
| 18:53.38 | Legorol | so they expect the customer to use certain words in certain situations |
| 18:53.51 | Legorol | and they presumably write their KB based on the customer's (incorrect) use of terminology, |
| 18:53.58 | Legorol | rather than the correct technical meaning of said words |
| 18:55.09 | krka | poor lego .( |
| 18:55.09 | Legorol | thanks for the rant-party :) |
| 18:55.17 | Legorol | i really should learn to be a noob |
| 18:55.21 | Legorol | would make my life so much easier |
| 18:55.21 | krka | (yup, that's a one eyed sad smiley) |
| 18:58.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 18:59.50 | Thrae | We were all noobs once, we just hated our noobish selves and once we had an ounce of WTF we're doing, we repressed the memory and acted like we were born with the knowledge. |
| 19:04.06 | krka | don't think we have the same definition of noob |
| 19:06.27 | Shadowed | Anyone happen to have an idea why http://wow.pastecode.com/907 wouldn't be off by about 5+ seconds for timers over 30-40 seconds? I'm sure it's some silly mistake and i'm missing something, just not sure what. |
| 19:17.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-165.handshake.de) |
| 19:20.25 | Kirkburn | I really hope I don't get random a random D/C when I'm playing :/ |
| 19:20.54 | MentalPower | Shadowed: whats the "timeElapsed = timeElapsed - 0.1" for? |
| 19:22.42 | Shadowed | MentalPower: Not actually sure, it was redone a few times trying to figure out what the problem was. |
| 19:22.52 | Shadowed | But it's not used |
| 19:25.09 | Legorol | Thrae: if you are still around, i have pondered your tooltip questions |
| 19:25.23 | Legorol | for a): switching from unit to doodad |
| 19:25.34 | Legorol | the only thing i can see that'd help you there is OnTooltipCleared |
| 19:25.51 | Legorol | have you checked if that event fires for GameTooltip when you change the mouseover object? |
| 19:26.17 | Thrae | Hmm, is that a real event? I didn't see it listed on wowwiki nor in GameTooltip's XML or code. |
| 19:26.23 | Legorol | it's not an event |
| 19:26.27 | Legorol | it's a Scripts handler |
| 19:26.48 | Legorol | sorry for my bad use of the word "event" |
| 19:27.05 | Legorol | if a tooltip has <OnTooltipCleared>, then that Scripts block triggers each time the contents is cleared, or changes |
| 19:27.08 | Legorol | or should do anyway |
| 19:27.41 | Legorol | if that's not the case, i'm afraid you have to use an OnUpdate check |
| 19:27.49 | Legorol | in OnUpdate, see if UnitExists("mouseover) |
| 19:28.03 | Legorol | when that goes from true to false, you know the mouse was moved away from a unit |
| 19:28.10 | Thrae | Well yeah, a real Script Handler, I was just going by what wowwiki and the XML and Lua said |
| 19:28.24 | Thrae | Legorol: It's looking that way |
| 19:29.11 | Thrae | I try to avoid using OnUpdate timers in that way until the last last resort |
| 19:29.18 | Legorol | understandably |
| 19:29.21 | Legorol | for b) |
| 19:29.26 | Legorol | frankly, i don't know |
| 19:29.36 | Legorol | i'd try anchoring GameTooltip to a frame in similar fashion |
| 19:29.38 | Legorol | (rather than a tooltip) |
| 19:29.41 | Legorol | and see if it also fades |
| 19:29.59 | Legorol | i'd also try taking YourTooltip, anchoring a RandomFrame to YourTooltip,and anchoring GameTooltip to RandomFrame |
| 19:30.27 | Legorol | i don't know the answer either without going in-game and fiddling about |
| 19:30.27 | Legorol | i'm surprised GameTooltip is fading though |
| 19:31.45 | Thrae | Surprised me too, I'm thinking it's the default case in their native code |
| 19:31.45 | Legorol | you do SetOwner properly before calling SetPoint to anchor it? |
| 19:31.52 | Thrae | Yep |
| 19:32.03 | Legorol | well the tooltip shouldn't know you have anchored it to another tooltip |
| 19:32.11 | Thrae | :SetOwner(owner, "ANCHOR_NONE") to GameTooltip |
| 19:32.13 | Legorol | when you anchor it to anything else, e.g. a bag or some such, it never fades |
| 19:32.22 | Legorol | who is the owner? |
| 19:32.32 | Thrae | UIParent in most cases. |
| 19:32.39 | Legorol | ok |
| 19:32.59 | Legorol | your own tooltip is not fading though, right? |
| 19:33.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shadowed (n=outlaw@c-67-161-0-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:33.31 | Thrae | I'd have to double-check because it's always 100% transparent, but before I put in transparency, yes |
| 19:34.03 | Legorol | hm, a thought |
| 19:34.19 | Legorol | you are moving the mouse about, over different units etc. |
| 19:34.21 | Legorol | your own tooltip is anchored to mouse |
| 19:34.26 | Legorol | and GameTooltip is anchored to your tooltip |
| 19:34.29 | Legorol | is that correct? |
| 19:34.33 | Thrae | Right. |
| 19:34.44 | Legorol | now, when the mouse leaves a unit, the game engine internally will call FadeOut |
| 19:34.50 | Legorol | on GameTooltip |
| 19:35.04 | Legorol | so isn't this what you are seeing? |
| 19:35.17 | Thrae | Yeah, that's what I've been saying. |
| 19:35.27 | Legorol | ah oki i missed the point then hehe :) |
| 19:35.43 | Legorol | ok, here is an idea: |
| 19:35.53 | Thrae | Except if I tell GameTooltip to :Hide() when not UnitExists("mousover") on UPDATE_MOUSEOVER_UNIT, it doesn't respond. |
| 19:35.54 | Legorol | i presume you have some logic that decides whether your custom tooltip should be shown or not |
| 19:35.58 | Thrae | It USED to respond. |
| 19:36.37 | Legorol | there is no harm in calling :Show on GameTooltip in an OnUpdate repeatedly |
| 19:36.48 | Legorol | doesn't have much performance overhead |
| 19:36.51 | Legorol | you can keep it shown like that |
| 19:37.37 | Legorol | i don't remember offhand the exact sequence of events that occur when you move the mouse onto/off-of a unit |
| 19:37.42 | Thrae | Yeah |
| 19:37.47 | Legorol | i used to know but i'd have to try in-game to figure out what's going on |
| 19:37.52 | Legorol | sorry i can't help you more than that :( |
| 19:38.05 | Legorol | you probably will have to use OnUpdate, based on past experience |
| 19:38.09 | Thrae | That's OK, you've given me some ideas. |
| 19:38.17 | Thrae | Like at least trying out OnTooltipCleared |
| 19:39.54 | Thrae | AnduinLothar was saying that sticking GameTooltip to another custom, 100% transparent tooltip which is ANCHOR_CURSOR is too hacky and I should just use OnUpdate with GetCursorPosition(), but I think there'd be a performance hit there or jerky performance. |
| 19:40.34 | Legorol | mm.. why exactly do you need the custom tooltip? |
| 19:40.44 | Legorol | what's wrong with having gametooltip anchor_cursor? |
| 19:41.00 | Thrae | Because you can't offset GameTooltip when it's set to ANCHOR_CURSOR, lots of people want to be able to do that. |
| 19:41.07 | Legorol | ah good point |
| 19:41.49 | Legorol | well i know that for Lua-initiated SetXxxx calls, OnClearTooltip fires |
| 19:42.06 | Legorol | i don't know if it's true for the internal stuff too |
| 19:42.09 | Thrae | OnTooltipCleared or OnClearTooltip? |
| 19:42.14 | Legorol | sorry OnTooltipCleared |
| 19:42.16 | Legorol | my bad |
| 19:42.26 | Legorol | btw it's not on the wiki probably because it's a relatively recent addition |
| 19:42.29 | Legorol | 1.8 i think |
| 19:42.44 | Legorol | have a look at its use in GameTooltip.lua |
| 19:42.52 | Legorol | it's used for fiddling with the money line by the default UI |
| 19:42.58 | Thrae | What do you think of the performance of OnUpdate + GetCursorPosition() + Screenwidth checks in Lua vs ANCHOR_CURSOR with its native functions? |
| 19:43.23 | Legorol | i'd go with anchor_cursor |
| 19:43.26 | Legorol | and deal with the Show problems |
| 19:43.41 | Legorol | because if you do OnUpdate + GetCursorPos, you'd still have to position it with a SetPoint |
| 19:43.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (i=PROFI@user-0cev737.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 19:43.51 | Legorol | so not only you do a positioning, but in addition the UI engine also does one |
| 19:44.04 | Legorol | if that makes sense. |
| 19:44.06 | Thrae | Yeah, I think ANCHOR_CURSOR has its own screenwidth checks |
| 19:44.17 | Thrae | Legorol: Right |
| 19:44.38 | Thrae | :SetOwner(owner, "ANCHOR_NONE") :SetPoint("BOTTOMLEFT", x, y) |
| 19:44.46 | Thrae | err |
| 19:44.57 | Thrae | :SetOwner(owner, "ANCHOR_NONE") :SetPoint("BOTTOMLEFT", owner, x, y) |
| 19:45.29 | Thrae | SetOwner probably calls its own default SetPoint too |
| 19:45.35 | Thrae | Even when no input is given. |
| 19:45.36 | Legorol | not exactly |
| 19:45.58 | Kaelten | hows it going guys |
| 19:46.01 | Thrae | Well, a native function |
| 19:46.01 | Legorol | SetOwner calls SetPoint internally if you have |
| 19:46.09 | Legorol | a) specified something other than ANCHOR_NONE |
| 19:46.27 | Legorol | b) specified ANCHOR_NONE and try to do a SetXxxx call on the tooltip not having done a SetPoint yourself |
| 19:46.39 | Thrae | Ah, OK, that's smart of it |
| 19:46.50 | Legorol | in other words, if you have ANCHOR_NONE, followed by SetPoint, and *only then* a SetXxxx call, |
| 19:46.55 | Legorol | it will not do SetPoint itself |
| 19:47.06 | Legorol | check the pseudo-code, this behaviour is illustrated there |
| 19:47.15 | Thrae | Yeah, I was reading that :) |
| 19:47.17 | Legorol | well i just explained it so no reason to check i guess :) |
| 20:20.07 | Kirkburn | Ooh, Rogue info today |
| 20:21.21 | Shadowed | Today is Krunday, and today is the day. The information release is scheduled for a specific time though, and that time is not now. |
| 20:21.31 | Shadowed | info at 6 PM PDT |
| 20:33.34 | Wobin | Kirkburn: link? |
| 20:34.25 | Kirkburn | http://blue.cardplace.com/cache/wow-rogue/1268858.htm |
| 20:38.07 | Wobin | thankee |
| 20:41.46 | Kirkburn | Restart time =) |
| 20:47.13 | Shadowed | So i'm guessing it's safe to assume that Arathi Basin taking 2-3 seconds longer to capture is just due to lag and such, nothing that can really be done about it? |
| 20:48.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower_ (n=MentalPo@host-70-45-81-92.onelinkpr.net) |
| 20:48.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 20:48.54 | MentalPower_ | GRR!!!! I HATE MY ISP!!!! |
| 20:51.29 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 20:52.35 | Cairenn | =/ |
| 20:53.24 | MentalPower | thanks Cair, I needed that :) |
| 20:53.53 | Cairenn | glad to oblige |
| 20:56.48 | MentalPower | Ok, I need a bit of advice on an addon distribution subject |
| 20:57.03 | MentalPower | I'll just post my problem and hope someone answers |
| 20:57.47 | MentalPower | We over at Auctioneer AddOns have not yet "officially" released a 1.11 version yet. |
| 20:58.27 | Wobin | There is 'unoffical' releases, Mental? |
| 20:58.34 | Wobin | are* |
| 20:58.39 | MentalPower | The main reason for the holdup is some bugs with two new additions to the Auctioneer AddOns package (one addon and a rather heavy new feature) |
| 20:58.52 | MentalPower | Wobin: yes, SVN and our beta downloads page |
| 20:58.57 | Wobin | ah, natch |
| 20:59.21 | MentalPower | (our SVN does not have any read restrictions) |
| 21:00.08 | MentalPower | those two additions are maintained by two separate developers that have not shown signs of life since 1.11 came out |
| 21:00.33 | MentalPower | obviously I'm being pressured by our users to make a release, but I don't want to release buggy software |
| 21:01.11 | Wobin | =\ |
| 21:01.17 | MentalPower | the two options that I see are a) yank out the two new features or b) wait for the bugs to be fixed by the creating devs |
| 21:01.26 | Cairenn | yank |
| 21:01.33 | Wobin | Are they easily removable/replaceable? |
| 21:01.49 | Wobin | (like, could you offer them later on, as plugins of sorts?) |
| 21:01.55 | Elkano | what are these features? |
| 21:02.08 | MentalPower | Wobin: yes, one was yanked prior to our current release due to incompletion |
| 21:02.51 | Wobin | I'd say yank. People will happily download updates as they occur, but the 1.11 release has been looked forward to |
| 21:03.06 | MentalPower | BeanCounter (a way to see transactions made oat the AH and runn queries on those transactions) and EnxBarker (a way to easily advertize enchants based on easy-too-use slider options) |
| 21:03.20 | Cairenn | MentalPower: pull'em for now, get the updated version out |
| 21:03.33 | Cairenn | if/when the new devs ever show up, re-add at that point |
| 21:03.47 | Cairenn | imo |
| 21:04.30 | Cairenn | don't keep your users waiting due to new devs |
| 21:04.35 | Cairenn | that's not fair to your users |
| 21:05.56 | Kaelten | can only soul shards be in soul bags? or can things like healthstones go in there too? |
| 21:06.09 | MentalPower | Kaelten: only soulshards |
| 21:09.22 | MentalPower | thanks for the advice Cair, I'll make a release later today (my main PC is being downgraded from WinVista to WinXP) |
| 21:09.37 | Kaelten | vista is a resource hog like no other |
| 21:10.00 | MentalPower | I agree in full Kaelten |
| 21:10.24 | MoonWolf | vista takes more resources then some games do. |
| 21:10.37 | MoonWolf | sorry, but thats not what i am looking for in an os |
| 21:11.19 | Cairenn | wow, really? |
| 21:11.26 | Cairenn | *doesn't bother installing* |
| 21:12.43 | Kirkburn | As I've mentioned before, the RAM usage of an OS in idle mode means absolutely nothing |
| 21:13.10 | Kirkburn | Assuming you have at least a gig of RAM, Vista should run fine |
| 21:15.52 | End-sleep | Im a little confused on how RAM usage of an OS in idle mode means nothing |
| 21:16.09 | Kirkburn | It has no effect on anything, and doesn't measure performance in any way |
| 21:16.20 | Kirkburn | Apart from speeding up the loading of programs |
| 21:16.27 | End | so, does it stop using all that ram when I start up something? |
| 21:16.31 | Kirkburn | Yup |
| 21:16.55 | End | and just what programs does it speed up load for? |
| 21:17.04 | Kirkburn | Stuff that's frequently used |
| 21:17.09 | Kirkburn | :P |
| 21:17.29 | Gryphen | Does it affect anything when you are using other applications? If not, what does it matter? |
| 21:17.38 | Kirkburn | Afaik, it loads frequently used files into the memory |
| 21:17.49 | End | they better have improved that then...last time I looked at add or remove programs it said I rarely used WoW |
| 21:17.55 | Kirkburn | If another program needs more memory, it gets freed up |
| 21:18.30 | Kirkburn | Heh, I don't think it works off that usage list, more on specific files (I would guess) |
| 21:18.39 | End | hopefully |
| 21:18.54 | End | the closest thing XP has to freq. usage knowledge really sucks |
| 21:18.55 | Kirkburn | It would be pretty bad design otherwise :) |
| 21:19.20 | Kirkburn | True ... mine probably says rarely too now, due to the launcher |
| 21:22.28 | MentalPower | I LOVE BLIZZARD!!!! (I don't have to use my old CD's anymore, just download the latest client from fileplanet and burn it to DVD!!!!) |
| 21:24.58 | End | hmm, says I use winrar rarely |
| 21:25.25 | End | and WoW is only occasionally now |
| 21:26.21 | End | says I've use starcraft frequently, even though it's been a while since I've even started it up |
| 21:29.56 | MentalPower | hehe :D |
| 21:30.12 | Cairenn | no reminding folks that there are pics of me out there now :p |
| 21:30.14 | Cairenn | sheesh |
| 21:32.02 | MentalPower | that brings me to my next point, we need to resurrect our frappr map |
| 21:32.05 | MentalPower | its gone stagnant |
| 21:33.39 | Kirkburn | Strange names people give their children these days ... |
| 21:34.24 | Kirkburn | frappr map? I must have missed it |
| 21:35.06 | MentalPower | I would give a link, but I fear what cair might do to me |
| 21:35.26 | Shadowed | could probably find it through searching forums |
| 21:43.26 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2576 |
| 21:48.02 | Shadowed | that explains why searching for "WoW" didn't bring up anything in frappr |
| 21:56.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 22:06.00 | Kirkburn1 | ach, goddammit, they've put a road name on my road :( |
| 22:06.15 | Kirkburn1 | My road hath no name |
| 22:11.27 | Kirkburn1 | Frappr keeps crashing :P |
| 22:15.42 | Kirkburn1 | I'm gonna call it a night, watch some Father Ted ... see ya 2moro! |
| 22:16.04 | Cairenn | later Kirkburn1 |
| 22:16.53 | Kirkburn1 | byee |
| 22:20.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=legorol@cpc2-cmbg6-0-0-cust566.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:22.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge haste (n=haste@host-81-191-131-80.bluecom.no) |
| 22:23.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mikk1 (i=bofh@81-233-236-26-no19.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 22:29.49 | Industrial | Anyone have a druid wowhead talent leveling template? |
| 22:35.17 | Legorol | i'd like to ask you guys' opinion about an issue that seems to be fairly hot at the moment, given that paid realm transfer is available |
| 22:35.29 | Legorol | it's the question of when does a realm stop being a "fresh" realm |
| 22:35.36 | Legorol | Currently Blizzard's definition is 3 months. |
| 22:35.51 | Legorol | 3 months after the launch of a realm, it can be eligible as a transfer destination |
| 22:35.59 | Legorol | Do you feel this is adequate? |
| 22:36.06 | Legorol | Personally, I feel 3 months is very little time |
| 22:36.21 | Legorol | I know it's hard to draw the line, but if you examine for example raid progression |
| 22:36.34 | Shadowed | Given that you have people who have been able to clear through like MC/BWL in 2-3 months, not really. |
| 22:36.40 | Legorol | We shouldn't just look at what the fastest going, hardcore guild is able to achieve in 3 months |
| 22:36.50 | Legorol | Shadowed: but that's just the top of the foodchain |
| 22:37.01 | Legorol | since the majority will not have done it, the game economy isn't on par with that yet |
| 22:37.18 | Legorol | i don't think you can just go by: oh this hardcore guild could clear it in 3 months |
| 22:37.21 | wereHamster | can someone please tell the OP that I'd really like to know what doesn't work.. so I can fix it? http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=407042 |
| 22:37.23 | Shadowed | It certainly shouldn't be reduced |
| 22:37.32 | Legorol | definitely |
| 22:37.38 | Legorol | but i feel 3 months is not enough |
| 22:37.57 | Legorol | i also think there is a very valid concern when it comes to pre-AQ gate and post-AQ gate realms |
| 22:38.10 | Legorol | apparently at the moment you can transfer from realms where the gate is open to those where it's closed |
| 22:38.13 | Legorol | that is definitely wrong |
| 22:38.20 | Shadowed | You're asking it in terms of can somebody buy 50,000 stacks of linen for 5s a piece, then resell them for 1g during war effort kind of thing? |
| 22:38.40 | Legorol | no |
| 22:38.55 | Legorol | in terms of people running around in armor that is currently physically impossible to get on that realm |
| 22:39.27 | Shadowed | well, in the end you're never going to be able to do anything about it. Unless you restrict them from transfering due to gear, which would cause a lot of issues. |
| 22:39.42 | Legorol | this one issue, you can |
| 22:39.50 | Legorol | don't allow transfer from a realm where gate is open to where it's closed |
| 22:40.07 | Shadowed | Didn't you say the gate opens after about 3 months? |
| 22:40.12 | Legorol | nope |
| 22:40.14 | Shadowed | ah nevermind |
| 22:40.22 | Legorol | afaik, Blizzard has not opened a gate manually yet |
| 22:40.30 | Legorol | let me know if you know an example where it has |
| 22:40.31 | Shadowed | The AQ gate block is kind of silly I think |
| 22:40.45 | Legorol | but i think that on most realms, the AQ gate got open naturally by the players |
| 22:40.55 | Legorol | there was talk originally that they will open gates on realms that seem to be struggling to get there |
| 22:41.01 | Legorol | but in practice that wasn't necessary, afaik |
| 22:41.15 | Legorol | the AQ gate is one of the greatest piece of content blizzard has put in so far :) |
| 22:41.26 | Legorol | except for the server lag/crashes when everyone's there to see it open .. |
| 22:41.32 | Legorol | that was poorly managed |
| 22:41.40 | Legorol | but other than that, it's a cool one shot event, |
| 22:41.48 | Legorol | which is still repeatable because you can go on to other, fresh realms |
| 22:42.04 | Legorol | for a particular realm, it's one-shot. but for a new player, it can still be experienced |
| 22:42.06 | Shadowed | It was the greatest piece of content like 5-6 months ago when it came out, but it's not really anything special. And now that you have nax you'll probably end up with more people just saying "screw it, will go to nax instead" |
| 22:42.22 | Shadowed | I liked the nax invasion more then the AQ gate event |
| 22:42.25 | Legorol | Shadowed, you forget that new players join this game all the time |
| 22:42.34 | Legorol | i for one would love to see AQ gate opening again |
| 22:42.38 | Legorol | and take part in the war effort |
| 22:42.40 | Cairenn | wereHamster: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=407596&tmp=1#post407596 |
| 22:42.48 | Shadowed | If somebody was to join the g |
| 22:42.48 | Shadowed | bah |
| 22:43.02 | Legorol | i think the fact that there are new and old realms around, means a good solution to the age old question of |
| 22:43.04 | Shadowed | If somebody was to join the game they could also be joining an old server and not a new one, so they may not even see it. |
| 22:43.08 | Legorol | whether there should be non-repeatable content in the game |
| 22:43.17 | Legorol | Shadowed: but they have the choice |
| 22:43.34 | Legorol | besides, if they are ignorant about the choices, they most likely will go by the suggested realms |
| 22:43.40 | Legorol | which are usually fresh, hence AQ not open |
| 22:43.42 | Mikk1 | mm crashes plural |
| 22:43.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower_ (n=MentalPo@host-70-45-81-92.onelinkpr.net) |
| 22:43.53 | Shadowed | but anyway |
| 22:44.04 | Legorol | anyway, i am actually glad realm transfer is not open in EU yet |
| 22:44.12 | Legorol | because these kinks and issues get sorted out in the US first |
| 22:44.45 | Legorol | i honestly beleive that (this is just personal opinion) that in 3 months a server doesn't reach its maturity, not just in terms of raid progression, but also in terms of its economy |
| 22:45.08 | Shadowed | In terms of economy i'd agree, but for stuff like AQ40 gear while the gates aren't open I don't really find that to be an issue. |
| 22:45.09 | Legorol | for example it's not enough time for rare/epic recipes and other drops to be prevalent |
| 22:45.23 | Legorol | so you don't mind people PvP-ing in gear you can't get? |
| 22:45.38 | Legorol | imagine someone going into a BG, facing opponents geared up in AQ40 gear |
| 22:45.51 | Shadowed | Whats the difference between somebody whos decked out in full AQ40 gear from c'thun, ouro, ect the day the gates open VS a few weeks before? |
| 22:46.02 | Mikk1 | Beh. AQ40 gear isn't all that compared to BWL gear |
| 22:46.07 | Mikk1 | It's just lots of nature resist really |
| 22:46.16 | Legorol | Mikk1: that could very well be true, i dont' know enough about the gear |
| 22:46.19 | Legorol | it's just the concept.. |
| 22:46.22 | Mikk1 | mm |
| 22:46.27 | Legorol | plus, it's wrong from a storyline point of view too |
| 22:46.39 | Legorol | it's just silly that there are people wondering around in gear that, in a way, doesn't exist yet |
| 22:46.44 | Legorol | would be especially an issue on RP realms |
| 22:46.47 | Shadowed | heh |
| 22:47.23 | Mikk1 | Granted, gear up in full AQ40 NR gear and all shamans will hate you forever =) |
| 22:47.28 | Shadowed | Well, in terms of story you're not really going to be able to do much, unless you ask Blizzard to restrict it to the point that people probably wont bother. |
| 22:47.49 | Legorol | ok, the way i feel a server progresses, is this: |
| 22:47.57 | Legorol | when it opens there is a surge in activity |
| 22:48.12 | Legorol | there is then a decay in progression |
| 22:48.17 | Shadowed | as Mikk1 said, AQ40 weapons really aren't *that* good until C'thun, and you still need the armor to support it. I'm not going to worry about the 5-10% case of people that are decked out in end-boss AQ40 gear. |
| 22:49.03 | Cairenn | http://www.transbuddha.com/mediaHolder.php?id=576 |
| 22:49.10 | Shadowed | Assuming they have like full tier 2.5, best weapons/trinkets/ect from AQ40 and they don't transfer until the day the gates open you're talking about maybe 3-4 weeks less of them being on the server and able to PVP with the gear and such. |
| 22:50.00 | Shadowed | "GGeett cchheeaapp ggooldd ssttaarrttiinngg aatt $$00.007733 pperr ggoolldd aatt" farmers are getting creative with whisper spamming apparently |
| 22:52.30 | Cairenn | not an instrument most people take particularly seriously |
| 22:54.15 | Wobin | Cairenn: I'm... speechless |
| 22:54.21 | Cairenn | yeah, really hey? |
| 22:55.20 | Wobin | I mean... |
| 22:55.37 | Cairenn | heh |
| 22:56.14 | Cairenn | that's why I went ahead and copied the link over |
| 22:56.42 | Cairenn | so many people just completely dismiss that instrument as a joke, a toy ... but in the hands of someone with talent like that? wow |
| 23:07.39 | Atog | hmm.. I didn't folow the conversation much, but I'd add that you still have BGs where people are running with uber twinked chars |
| 23:07.41 | Atog | at level 19 |
| 23:07.51 | Mikk1 | haha |
| 23:07.52 | Mikk1 | point |
| 23:08.10 | Mikk1 | though you get rid of them when you ding 20 ;) |
| 23:08.13 | Atog | and the difference in pvp between a level 60 T2 epiced and a level 60 tier 2 + AQ gear epiced isn't that much |
| 23:08.41 | Atog | if you compare it to level 19 + epic twinked vs level 19 untwinked |
| 23:08.54 | Mikk1 | epix at 19? =) |
| 23:09.07 | Legorol | back |
| 23:09.14 | Atog | well, I've seen them run around with double crusadered weapons |
| 23:09.16 | Legorol | ok well i am not going to be able to convince you guys, so i won't even try :) |
| 23:09.26 | Mikk1 | Atog: deffo |
| 23:09.26 | Legorol | but the problem is we got stuck in arbitrarily chosen details |
| 23:09.28 | Atog | with enchants that require nexuses and all that fancy stuff |
| 23:09.31 | Legorol | the AQ gate was just one example |
| 23:09.47 | Atog | Legorol: I just think it's not that much of a big deal |
| 23:09.48 | Legorol | the bottomline is, my subjective opinion is that at 3 months, a server is not old enough yet |
| 23:10.12 | Mikk1 | what is the 3 month rule anyway? |
| 23:10.15 | Atog | bah, these days people tear through the content fast enough. |
| 23:10.18 | Mikk1 | can't transfer in after 3? |
| 23:10.22 | Legorol | my perspective is basically, how much effect overall, including on the economy, does transffering to a 3 month old realm has |
| 23:10.24 | Mikk1 | can't transfer in BEFORE 3? |
| 23:10.25 | Atog | especially with epics up for grabs in ZG/AQ. |
| 23:10.27 | Legorol | and my feeling is it's a lot |
| 23:10.36 | Legorol | Mikk1: can't transfer to a realm that's younger than 3 months |
| 23:10.39 | Mikk1 | kk |
| 23:11.07 | Legorol | i'd look at these factors: overall prosperity of the people on the realm vs. those transferring in (and i'm not talking about richest character), |
| 23:11.12 | Legorol | overall gear state of the realm |
| 23:11.23 | Legorol | (again, not talking about what *could be* done in 3 months by a hardcore guild) |
| 23:11.45 | Legorol | for example: |
| 23:11.57 | Mikk1 | You know... the amount of high quality music you get at jake's fron page is .... eek |
| 23:11.59 | Legorol | if, after a bunch of people transfer in, 5% of the population is people who just transfered in, |
| 23:12.03 | Mikk1 | For free I mean |
| 23:12.05 | Legorol | but have 50% of the wealth of the server, |
| 23:12.08 | Legorol | that's a definite problem |
| 23:12.31 | Legorol | ok i made my point, now i will let you guys get back to Ukulele music ;-) |
| 23:13.27 | Mikk1 | I mean... that's not just some 64kbps bleh stream |
| 23:13.30 | Mikk1 | This is CD quality |
| 23:17.33 | Legorol | Mikk1: you are not in EU, are you? |
| 23:17.39 | Mikk1 | sweden |
| 23:17.58 | Mikk1 | why? o.O |
| 23:18.00 | Legorol | aaah colio! |
| 23:18.10 | Legorol | i thought you are US |
| 23:18.13 | Mikk1 | haha |
| 23:18.17 | Legorol | i just like to know who in here is EU :) |
| 23:18.28 | Legorol | so what do you think, is Blizz wrong for using Telia? |
| 23:18.46 | Mikk1 | I'm not even sure where the problems are |
| 23:18.46 | Legorol | i just love it when people criticize Blizz for using Telia, and demand they use a better provider.. |
| 23:18.54 | Legorol | but no provider can provide 100% uptime |
| 23:18.58 | Mikk1 | I'm using Telia myself |
| 23:19.03 | Mikk1 | And tqph they rock |
| 23:19.15 | Legorol | i don't know much about large EU providers :( |
| 23:19.23 | Mikk1 | From what I've been able to tell from traceroutes and stuff, they problem is invariably in parix |
| 23:19.23 | Legorol | what sort of thing you use Telia for? |
| 23:19.42 | Legorol | today's downtime was caused by cooling hardware failure |
| 23:19.42 | Mikk1 | Been using it at work for 100Mbit/s access for a Metropolitan Area Network |
| 23:19.46 | Legorol | which was Telia's responsibility |
| 23:20.05 | Mikk1 | Then again, Telia sweden and Telia france may be two entirely different things |
| 23:20.40 | Mikk1 | I've also got telia adsl at home (8Mbps/768kbps, about to be upgraded to 24Mbps) and I must say I'm really getting the bandwidth I'm paying for, and it just stays up |
| 23:20.49 | Legorol | Telia is nordic, don't know if swedish or not |
| 23:21.03 | Legorol | but they have EU-wide backbone infrastructure |
| 23:21.04 | Mikk1 | Old swedish state phonecompany gone semipublic |
| 23:21.10 | Legorol | that's all i know |
| 23:21.29 | Mikk1 | Except now they've merged with stuff all over the place so I dunno if they can be called swedish anymore |
| 23:21.33 | Mikk1 | Board is in sweden anyway =) |
| 23:21.35 | Legorol | i'm sure Telia has lots of subsidiaries doing lots of stuff |
| 23:21.53 | Mikk1 | Yeah. I never heard of Telia hosting operations prior to this |
| 23:21.57 | Mikk1 | Must be some op they borged in france |
| 23:22.00 | Legorol | i have |
| 23:22.12 | Legorol | Battle.net's european servers were always hosted by Telia, afaik |
| 23:22.33 | Legorol | Mikk1, check out http://www.teliasoneraic.com |
| 23:22.38 | Legorol | their EU coverage is... vast |
| 23:22.40 | Legorol | to say the least |
| 23:22.41 | Mikk1 | Yea |
| 23:22.43 | Mikk1 | I know |
| 23:22.49 | Legorol | hosting centers in Paris, Hamburg, Frankfurt , London |
| 23:22.51 | Legorol | etc. |
| 23:22.57 | Legorol | ok you do |
| 23:22.57 | Mikk1 | It was always good, and it didn't get less when they merged with Sonera (finland) |
| 23:23.39 | Legorol | hehe i also love it when people complain about the Paris hosting... when in fact 3 out of 5 of Blizzard's data centers is in Germany |
| 23:24.02 | Mikk1 | My server is definitely in paris, and the pariX is the one fucking me up =) |
| 23:24.08 | Legorol | :( |
| 23:24.11 | Legorol | sorry to hear that |
| 23:24.22 | Legorol | granted i never really had much problems with Silvermoon (in old Frankfurt center) |
| 23:24.40 | Mikk1 | Also a lot of people can't tell server problems from network problems |
| 23:24.45 | Legorol | that's true |
| 23:24.52 | Mikk1 | "I'm lagging! Bloody Telia!" |
| 23:24.53 | Legorol | if the server is lagging, that's not a connectivity issue |
| 23:24.54 | Mikk1 | Um.. right. |
| 23:24.55 | Legorol | yeah |
| 23:25.40 | Mikk1 | If chat is zero lag, but trading items or interacting with stuff takes bloody forever, I don't start screaming about telia |
| 23:25.51 | Legorol | exactly |
| 23:26.16 | Legorol | so what's the nature of your problems with Paris? |
| 23:26.22 | Legorol | except that French live there... |
| 23:26.24 | Legorol | ;-) |
| 23:26.25 | Mikk1 | hahaha |
| 23:26.30 | Legorol | ok that was a bad joke |
| 23:26.33 | Legorol | very rude one |
| 23:26.51 | Mikk1 | Well, on the few occasions when I've totally lost network connectivity with the servers, my traceroutes always stop in ParIX |
| 23:26.54 | Legorol | i'm just curious, from the forums it sounds like some realms have lots of lag issue |
| 23:27.06 | Legorol | is it that bad? whoah |
| 23:27.08 | Legorol | i never had it that bad |
| 23:27.14 | Legorol | yes occasional DC |
| 23:27.17 | Mikk1 | Note "few occasions" |
| 23:27.23 | Legorol | and maybe some loot/item/vendor lag |
| 23:27.29 | Mikk1 | We're talking like a handful of times over the past year |
| 23:27.29 | Legorol | but it's rare that i get it |
| 23:27.32 | End | mine has quite a few issues |
| 23:27.37 | Mikk1 | And I've got 150 days played over the past year |
| 23:27.39 | Mikk1 | more |
| 23:27.46 | Mikk1 | So I'm really there to see most of em =) |
| 23:27.48 | Legorol | hey, it might be fun to compare what servers we mainly play on |
| 23:27.51 | Legorol | I'm on Silvermoon mostly |
| 23:27.54 | Mikk1 | Bloodhoof |
| 23:27.56 | Legorol | with a few others here and there |
| 23:28.16 | Legorol | End, what about you? |
| 23:28.44 | Legorol | Mikk1, you know about this page of mine? http://www.wowwiki.com/EU_English_Realms_Info |
| 23:28.48 | Mikk1 | Of course bloodhoof is oooold so the recurring bouts of server lag is probably just need for a phatter box |
| 23:29.21 | Legorol | hm, Silvermoon is the same age |
| 23:29.26 | Legorol | so.. well, i dunno |
| 23:29.35 | Legorol | we don't know enough about the server infrastructure to even make educated guesses |
| 23:30.09 | End | I'm on Bonechewer (US) |
| 23:30.12 | Legorol | oh |
| 23:30.17 | Legorol | i thought you were EU, for some reason.. hehe |
| 23:30.22 | End | naw |
| 23:30.30 | End | it used to be a good server |
| 23:30.38 | End | until about late summer of last year |
| 23:30.53 | Legorol | i ponder if the lag issues have anything to do with server load |
| 23:31.00 | End | it might |
| 23:31.07 | Legorol | i don't think there is any correlation between whether there is a queue and lag |
| 23:31.27 | Mikk1 | there might be but not necessarily |
| 23:31.37 | Mikk1 | also you got to separate east/west/instance lag and whatnot |
| 23:31.46 | Legorol | true |
| 23:31.50 | Mikk1 | i've had plenty of times when every damn guild on the server hopped into MC |
| 23:31.54 | Mikk1 | and it got... erm.. unplayable |
| 23:32.03 | Mikk1 | but the outside world was mostly fine |
| 23:32.37 | Legorol | i'd love to know how many boxes it physically takes to run a realm |
| 23:32.42 | Legorol | but i think that question doesn't actually makes sense |
| 23:32.47 | End | yeah, I'm curious as well |
| 23:32.52 | Legorol | the database backend etc. is shared between several realms |
| 23:33.08 | End | instance servers are shared as well too I think |
| 23:33.30 | Legorol | it makes more sense to ask how many boxes per continent, or how many boxes for chat, items, etc. |
| 23:34.04 | Legorol | there is one other thing that intrigues me, from a security point of view |
| 23:34.17 | Legorol | with the authentication servers in Paris, and the actual realm in a remote location, |
| 23:34.31 | Legorol | i'd be interested to know the details of how a user gets handed off to the realm he is connecting to |
| 23:35.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge zespri_work (n=andrews@124.197.8.250) |
| 23:35.08 | Legorol | btw, there is something interesting about EU servers i noticed a while back |
| 23:35.18 | Legorol | the server has memory of the client language |
| 23:35.52 | Legorol | you can get the server to send you quest texts etc. in a different language, and get it in a state that even reinstalling yoru WoW doesn't fix it |
| 23:36.22 | Legorol | i panicked quite a bit when i was fiddling with this and i got the server to beleive i'm running German client |
| 23:36.32 | Legorol | even after reverting my client to fully english, i got quest texts in german... ouch |
| 23:37.08 | Legorol | the upshot of this was, however, that i figured out how to force the server over to a different language |
| 23:37.37 | Legorol | and when Blizz had an issue whereby some players' language setting accidentally got changed, so that e.g. English players started getting German quest text, |
| 23:37.45 | Legorol | i could provide steps for resetting it ;) |
| 23:38.26 | Legorol | Cairenn is back, i need to watch myself |
| 23:39.11 | Fanook | is there an easy way for someone with the US client to easily get localizations? (short of asking someone with the proper client) |
| 23:39.49 | Mikk1 | the clients are separate =( |
| 23:39.55 | Fanook | meh |
| 23:40.55 | Mikk1 | Legorol: I'm thinking that there's a "main server" for the realm that communicates with the auth servers, remembers players logged on, and handles chat and that. Then it has a bunch of slaves that it's responsible for moving the players between. |
| 23:43.31 | Legorol | it's the 3-way auth/player/realm communication i'm mostly curious about :) |
| 23:43.57 | Mikk1 | Don't think the player ever gets to chat directly to the auth boxes |
| 23:44.21 | Mikk1 | Easily verified of course by looking at netstat |
| 23:44.27 | Mikk1 | Or even my firewall logs =P |
| 23:45.19 | Mikk1 | Handing auth off to a 3rd party is a pretty standard procedure after all. All manner of servers and gateways and whatnot do it all the time |
| 23:45.22 | Mikk1 | And they all do it the same way |
| 23:45.31 | Mikk1 | Get a login request, pass it to the auth server, get response back, act on it |
| 23:46.36 | Mikk1 | Common 3rd party auth protocols include RADIUS, LDAP, or heck, NTLM |
| 23:46.48 | Mikk1 | Not that I think blizz uses the last one =P |
| 23:47.12 | Mikk1 | And I wouldn't bet anything on them even using a standard one |
| 23:47.35 | Legorol | <Mikk1> Don't think the player ever gets to chat directly to the auth boxes |
| 23:47.40 | Legorol | ^^ don't really understand |
| 23:47.45 | Legorol | you do have to supply username/password |
| 23:47.51 | Legorol | you supply that to the auth servers, not your realm |
| 23:48.07 | Mikk1 | I think it works like this (without looking at network traffic logs): |
| 23:48.13 | Mikk1 | Erhmm wait |
| 23:48.14 | Mikk1 | you have a point |
| 23:48.23 | Legorol | i'm sure there are good handoff protocols |
| 23:48.29 | Mikk1 | You do get to log on even if your realm is down |
| 23:48.33 | Legorol | yes |
| 23:48.38 | Legorol | and you do get a TCP connection up to Paris |
| 23:48.42 | Legorol | even if your realm is in Frankfurt |
| 23:48.45 | Legorol | you get both actually |
| 23:48.48 | Mikk1 | yea |
| 23:48.57 | Legorol | first you get the one to Paris, then one to the realm too when you are at char select |
| 23:49.02 | Legorol | when you hit Enter World, the one to Paris drops |
| 23:49.23 | Mikk1 | Well, ok, if they have any amount of brain, the auth data is passed between the auth servers and the realm way outside your reach |
| 23:49.32 | Legorol | it better do :) |
| 23:49.41 | Legorol | but it still passes on the open intarweb |
| 23:49.52 | Legorol | yeah i know that's a nonissue |
| 23:50.00 | Mikk1 | Though tbh if they designed their crypto frameworks correctly, they could just hand you a signed something that their realms could verify |
| 23:50.08 | Legorol | true |
| 23:50.25 | Mikk1 | But if I was the designer, I wouldn't even do that because I'm paranoid =) |
| 23:50.35 | Legorol | actually, given that the data passes over the internet anyway, |
| 23:50.41 | Legorol | is there any reason why it can't be passed through you? |
| 23:50.47 | Legorol | there is an advantage in that |
| 23:50.59 | Mikk1 | They could have an omfgVPN tunnel between auth servers and other hosting sites |
| 23:51.02 | Legorol | there isn't much point in you intercepting your own authentication stream |
| 23:51.05 | Legorol | you don't gain anything from it |
| 23:51.19 | Legorol | they could, but that tunnel can also go through you |
| 23:51.23 | Mikk1 | If they fubar the crypto, you could change your login cookies and become anyone else |
| 23:51.26 | Legorol | i'm saying, just use your computer as a simple router |
| 23:51.41 | Legorol | doesn't compromise anything |
| 23:51.46 | Legorol | not any more than passing through 3rd party routers |
| 23:52.15 | Mikk1 | They could have a virtual network between there you know |
| 23:52.16 | Legorol | i'm not sure there is any advantage in either going direct or via you |
| 23:52.23 | Legorol | yeah i know |
| 23:52.28 | Mikk1 | Maybe virtual in the packet switched sense, but maybe also fully encrypted |
| 23:52.30 | Mikk1 | I'd do both |
| 23:52.49 | Mikk1 | Remember that forum servers and stuff also need to talk to auth servers directly |
| 23:52.56 | Mikk1 | Though they're in paris also, right? |
| 23:54.07 | Legorol | i never checked that |
| 23:54.08 | Mikk1 | The advantage of just doing a VPN between their sites is 1) It's much harder to intercept 2) you can easily change it if it's ever compromised without breaking any kind of software compatibility |
| 23:54.22 | Legorol | point |
| 23:54.44 | Mikk1 | Then again Blizzard didn't hire me to design their security infrastructure so I'm just theorizing =) |
| 23:54.59 | Mikk1 | <= Works with this crap |
| 23:55.56 | Cairenn | I don't think anyone could have guessed that, Mikk1 ;) |
| 23:56.09 | Legorol | <= doesn't work with this crap, yet knows much more than he should |
| 23:56.21 | Mikk1 | Then again, I've seen enough crap auth/crypto frameworks in my day that I wouldn't discount blizzard passing it through the client, and perhaps even doing so in a crackable manner =P |
| 23:56.40 | Legorol | i think if anything blizzard is extremely good about their security |
| 23:56.53 | Cairenn | I know enough to know I don't know squat :p |
| 23:56.55 | Legorol | all stability issues aside, i completely trust blizzard with my data |
| 23:57.03 | Legorol | Cairenn: that is a lot wiser than most people |
| 23:57.17 | Legorol | i had a funny conversationg with a guildie |
| 23:57.30 | Legorol | he said he is paranoid to use a CC online (which is a personal choice, i can't argue with that) |
| 23:57.44 | Legorol | the reason though was amusing, he has a friend whom, by the sound of it, is a script kiddie |
| 23:58.01 | Legorol | his friend was bragging how easy it is to hack databases storing CC data |
| 23:58.13 | Legorol | because this friend worked for a small company and managed to hack into their database |
| 23:58.29 | Legorol | also, this magical friend was bragging about cracking md5 |
| 23:58.34 | Mikk1 | right |
| 23:58.41 | Legorol | on closer discussion turns out the friend hacked a password with dictionary attack |
| 23:58.46 | Cairenn | lol |
| 23:58.47 | Mikk1 | mm |
| 23:58.57 | Legorol | but it made my poor guildie paranoid |
| 23:59.05 | Mikk1 | Two years ago, md5 was shown to have chosen-plaintext weaknesses |
| 23:59.11 | Legorol | his friend talks enough *&£% to confuse the poor guy and make him paranoid |
| 23:59.18 | Mikk1 | But it's hardly "broken" |
| 23:59.19 | Legorol | Mikk1: yeah i saw that one |
| 23:59.29 | Legorol | and it's not broken in the sense that it can't be reversed |
| 23:59.40 | Legorol | so an MD5-hashed password can't be recovered, except via bruteforce |
| 23:59.42 | Legorol | if i'm not mistaken |