irclog2html for #wowi-lounge on 20060730

`00:04.40`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin (i=Wobin@218-214-59-86.people.net.au)`
`00:14.34`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Warol (n=Warol@adsl-75-4-189-1.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)`
`00:31.10`	`Cide`	`grr. is there any event that fires when you log out, but not when you reload?`
`00:31.41`	`Thrae`	`PLAYER_LEAVING_WORLD ?`
`00:31.54`	`Cide`	`"Fired when a player logs out and possibly at other situations as well"`
`00:32.04`	`Cide`	`pretty sure that is called on reload`
`00:32.16`	`Thrae`	`Odd that it WOULD be called on Reload, given its name`
`00:32.34`	`Thrae`	`But I know PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD is called on Reload, so I guess that makes sense. Damn event names.`
`00:33.03`	`_Valgrind`	`Reload is not normal. It's a debug tool that resets all UI state, so it's not that strange.`
`00:33.26`	`Thrae`	`PLAYER_LEAVING_WORLD might also be called when entering an instance.`
`00:33.26`	`Cide`	`isn't it also called on zoning?`
`00:33.41`	`Thrae`	`That basically reloads the UI, AFAIK.`
`00:33.45`	`Cide`	`yeah`
`00:33.56`	`Cide`	`PLAYER_LOGOUT: Sent when the player logs out or the UI is reloaded, after PLAYER_LEAVING_WORLD, but before variables are saved.`
`00:59.01`	`Kirkburn`	`Lookie here: I've made myself a network ;) http://www.kirkburn.eu/`
`01:01.53`	`MentalPower`	`Cide: there is no difference (as far as the UI is concerned) between a ReloadUI and a normal logout/exit`
`01:02.21`	`Cide`	`I want to wipe savedvars when logging out/in, but keep them through reload/zoning`
`01:03.00`	`MentalPower`	`the only way to know if a PLAYER_LOGOUT (or other such events) fired because of reloadui or just becuase of standard logout/exit is to hook the ReloadUI() and ConsoleCommand() functions`
`01:05.24`	`MentalPower`	`s/ConsoleCommand()/ConsoleExec()/`
`01:06.38`	`Cide`	`heh, don't really feel like doing that`
`01:06.38`	`Cide`	`thanks anyway`
`01:11.14`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`01:27.40`	`Hexarobee`	`ok who approves new addons to wowinterface.com... lets get crackin!! ;)))`
`01:29.05`	`Kirkburn`	`Anyone who's a moderator on this channel :)`
`01:29.34`	`Hexarobee`	`come on chanserv!`
`01:29.38`	`Kirkburn`	`hehe`
`01:33.55`	`Kirkburn`	`nite!`
`01:38.33`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Warol (n=Warol@adsl-75-4-189-1.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)`
`01:46.57`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge quoin (n=quoin@220-245-171-249.tpgi.com.au)`
`01:51.28`	`Shadowed`	`what would the frame type be for a check button using CreateFrame?`
`01:51.31`	`Shadowed`	`CheckButton?`
`01:52.10`	`Hexarobee`	`is it <CheckButton> in xml?`
`01:52.15`	`Shadowed`	`yeah`
`01:52.23`	`Hexarobee`	`then ya i would think so`
`01:52.32`	`Hexarobee`	`i know <Button> works that way`
`01:52.34`	`Shadowed`	`I'm 99% sure it's CheckButton, but CreateFrame is being bitchy at the moment so trying to figure out why.`
`01:53.13`	`Hexarobee`	`CreateFrame("Button", "ChessButton"..id, this, "wowChessBoardSquareTemplate");`
`01:53.25`	`Hexarobee`	`thats what im using in my addon`
`01:53.33`	`Hexarobee`	`so thats type, name, parent, inherit`
`01:53.35`	`Shadowed`	`ah, it's complaining about the parent`
`01:53.39`	`Shadowed`	`hmmm`
`01:54.22`	`Shadowed`	`oh`
`01:54.23`	`Shadowed`	`heh`
`01:56.25`	`Wobin`	`oh god =) A chess game =)`
`01:56.35`	`Hexarobee`	`haha`
`01:56.40`	`Hexarobee`	`i just posted the first beta`
`01:56.45`	`Hexarobee`	`waiting for it to be approved`
`01:56.46`	`Shadowed`	`ooo chess`
`01:57.13`	`Wobin`	`I remember writing a chess game for a mud`
`01:57.15`	`Shadowed`	`oh rofl`
`01:57.16`	`Hexarobee`	`lemme toss it on a server if yall wanna be the first to actually try it between people ;)`
`01:57.21`	`Shadowed`	`I should read the wiki more closely next time`
`01:57.26`	`Shadowed`	`Frame - The frame object that will be used as the created Frame's parent (cannot be a string!)`
`01:57.28`	`Shadowed`	`oooopss`
`01:57.29`	`Dolby-wowi`	`it was approved about 1 - 2minago`
`01:57.30`	`Dolby-wowi`	`=p`
`01:57.47`	`MentalPower`	`for those of you that want to know, in order to get transparency to show on WoW from TGA's made in photoshop, you need to first create an alpha channel (photoshop's transparency won't do the trick) and then save the image with 32bits/pixel`
`01:57.55`	`Hexarobee`	`www.hexarobi.com/wowchess/`
`01:58.02`	`Hexarobee`	`hah thanks dolby ;)`
`01:58.11`	`Hexarobee`	`CreateFrame("Button", "ChessButton"..id, this, "wowChessBoardSquareTemplate");`
`01:58.13`	`Dolby-wowi`	`looks cool btw`
`01:58.26`	`Hexarobee`	`http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-4682-wowchess.html`
`01:58.26`	`Wobin`	`hm speaking of, I need to get photoshop again. Gimp isn't cutting it =(`
`01:58.27`	`Hexarobee`	`?`
`01:58.34`	`Shadowed`	`yeah, i see that now. was thinking it worked like SetPoint`
`01:58.52`	`Hexarobee`	`was a mis-paste ;)`
`01:58.58`	`Wobin`	`hehe`
`01:58.59`	`Wobin`	`curse =)`
`01:59.07`	`Hexarobee`	`rofo`
`01:59.09`	`Hexarobee`	`rofl`
`01:59.27`	`Dolby-wowi`	`this a better link`
`01:59.28`	`Dolby-wowi`	`http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5204-wowChess.html`
`01:59.31`	`Shadowed`	`Hexarobee: Small suggestion would be to either add some little box or expand the UI a little bit up so it doesn't cut in the middle of the title`
`01:59.38`	`Hexarobee`	`wrong tab ;) http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5204-wowChess.html`
`01:59.41`	`Shadowed`	`looks nice though, will have to try it`
`02:00.10`	`Hexarobee`	`ya im planning to add a nice title bar`
`02:00.12`	`Hexarobee`	`with a close box`
`02:00.20`	`Shadowed`	`Validating moves is going to be fun to do`
`02:00.31`	`Hexarobee`	`i just got this finally working after a couple days work so wanted to post what i had ;)`
`02:00.34`	`Hexarobee`	`hehe ya`
`02:01.01`	`Shadowed`	`Although, I guess depending on how you save the entire board it maybe easy`
`02:01.27`	`Hexarobee`	`its saved as a hash referenced by space in the "a1" format`
`02:01.50`	`Hexarobee`	`so a1="rl" a2="nl"`
`02:01.52`	`Hexarobee`	`etc`
`02:02.02`	`Hexarobee`	`so square a1 contains a light rook, a2 has a light knight`
`02:02.12`	`Shadowed`	`should be able to do it somewhat easly from the sounds of it then`
`02:02.18`	`Hexarobee`	`ya`
`02:02.22`	`Hexarobee`	`shouldnt be too killer`
`02:04.09`	`Shadowed`	`debugging this dynamic UI builder is really going to be a pain`
`02:04.12`	`Hexarobee`	`its already set up to call the validate function`
`02:04.20`	`Hexarobee`	`so i just have to fill it out`
`02:04.37`	`Hexarobee`	`hehe ya for sure`
`02:06.50`	`Hexarobee`	`ok 2 people have downloaded it! whos playing a game`
`02:07.28`	`Shadowed`	`20 views, you should stop spamming refresh! :p`
`02:08.33`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge pyfen (n=Rozr@unaffiliated/fenderx)`
`02:11.19`	`Shadowed`	`sigh`
`02:11.34`	`Shadowed`	`anyone have a good way on how to debug stuff created through CreateFrame?`
`02:17.00`	`Shadowed`	`orrrrr maybe it's because i forgot to update old code`
`02:18.40`	`MentalPower`	`you too making a dynamic UI builder?`
`02:18.47`	`Shadowed`	`sort of`
`02:18.53`	`MentalPower`	`MIkk is making one, Cide I think is too`
`02:19.14`	`Shadowed`	`I want SSPVP to be able to change the UI depending what addon is loaded or not, and it's more fun/easier to have something thats dynamic.`
`02:19.37`	`MentalPower`	`I'm using Mikk's currently, it works pretty nicely`
`02:19.44`	`Shadowed`	`Whats Mikks?`
`02:20.00`	`Cide`	`I was`
`02:20.03`	`Cide`	`but I've put it on ice`
`02:20.08`	`Shadowed`	`too complicated?`
`02:20.11`	`MentalPower`	`EtchASketch`
`02:20.12`	`Cide`	`not really`
`02:20.12`	`Shadowed`	`s/complicated/work/`
`02:20.20`	`MentalPower`	`found on the Ace SVN`
`02:20.23`	`Cide`	`but I need to work on other stuff`
`02:20.38`	`Shadowed`	`i'd have to reinstall SVN. i'll stick with what i have :p`
`02:20.52`	`Shadowed`	`SVN client that is`
`02:22.53`	`MentalPower`	`http://svn.wowace.com/svnweb/index.cgi/root/view/trunk/EtchASketch/designs.lua`
`02:23.14`	`MentalPower`	`that file contains the UI building stub and an example`
`02:23.34`	`Shadowed`	`interesting`
`02:23.51`	`Shadowed`	`He pretty much just eval's it I take it?`
`02:24.41`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge _Valgrind (n=bortas@c-bb0d70d5.09-31-6c6b7010.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`02:24.51`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge _Valgrind (n=bortas@c-bb0d70d5.09-31-6c6b7010.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`02:25.12`	`MentalPower`	`he walks the table and builds the stuff in order`
`02:25.33`	`Shadowed`	`will have to take a look at it`
`02:25.40`	`MentalPower`	`its quite nice`
`02:26.11`	`MentalPower`	`it even supports building lots of the same thing in one step (ie, 27 buttons one above the other)`
`02:27.34`	`Hexarobee`	`anyone wanna play a game of chess? =-)`
`02:28.47`	`MentalPower`	`what server? Draka?`
`02:29.07`	`Hexarobee`	`im in kargath but i can make a char on draka`
`02:29.54`	`MentalPower`	`draka is our test server, we even have two guilds solely for testing purposes`
`02:30.12`	`MentalPower`	`LoadOnDemand on the alliance side and RegisterForSave on the horde`
`02:30.20`	`Hexarobee`	`haha nice`
`02:30.50`	`Shadowed`	`apparently the horde guild is the out dated and shouldn't be used one, and the alliance one is the new cool one`
`02:30.53`	`Cide`	`have any 60s? :)`
`02:31.32`	`MentalPower`	`highest is "Worldframe" level 15 Mage played by Legorol`
`02:31.38`	`Shadowed`	`lol`
`02:31.57`	`MentalPower`	`followed by "Cairenn" level 14 hunter played by someone I don't know :P`
`02:32.07`	`Shadowed`	`probably iriel`
`02:32.16`	`Wobin`	`hehe`
`02:32.39`	`MentalPower`	`"Lua" (Iriel's char) is a level 8 rogue`
`02:35.07`	`Hexarobee`	`hehe lua nice`
`02:35.13`	`Hexarobee`	`just made hexarobi`
`02:36.56`	`MentalPower`	`apparently I have invite powers :)`
`02:39.42`	`Hexarobee`	`ok im on now`
`02:39.44`	`Hexarobee`	`invite me?`
`02:43.17`	`MentalPower`	`you forgot to delete the PSD image for the knigths from the images folder`
`02:44.05`	`MentalPower`	`oh and the png file for the same piece`
`02:50.32`	`Hexarobee`	`k ill fix that too`
`02:52.56`	`MentalPower`	`can't you use Texture:SetVertexColor(r,g,b,a) to color the pieces?`
`02:53.06`	`MentalPower`	`that way you only need one copy of each piece`
`03:03.39`	`Hexarobee`	`how do i update my addon on wowinterface.com?`
`03:03.55`	`Hexarobee`	`www.hexarobi.com/wowchess/`
`03:04.06`	`Cairenn`	`front page, left hand side menu - upload & update`
`03:04.07`	`Hexarobee`	`but still need to figure out how to update on wowi`
`03:04.29`	`Hexarobee`	`ahh duh!`
`03:04.33`	`Hexarobee`	`if it was a snake it woulda bit me`
`03:04.33`	`Hexarobee`	`thx`
`03:05.22`	`Cairenn`	`;)`
`03:05.42`	`Cairenn`	`either that or you go to the mod itself and just choose "edit"`
`03:06.22`	`Hexarobee`	`ya it kept taking me to the add new addon page, which i forgot was the same as the update addon page ;)`
`03:08.14`	`Cairenn`	`update approved`
`03:08.20`	`Cairenn`	`(and thus, avail)`
`03:08.37`	`Hexarobee`	`thx =)`
`03:08.41`	`Cairenn`	`np`
`03:10.42`	`Hexarobee`	`and mental, you mean to differentiate between light and dark pieces?`
`03:10.49`	`MentalPower`	`yep`
`03:11.08`	`Hexarobee`	`well on the black ones the highlights are white, and on the white ones the highlights are black`
`03:11.18`	`Hexarobee`	`it would have to be 2 layers of different colors`
`03:11.30`	`MentalPower`	`hmm... true`
`03:11.48`	`Hexarobee`	`i plan to skin the pieces at some point`
`03:11.51`	`Hexarobee`	`and the squares`
`03:11.54`	`Hexarobee`	`and add a color picker`
`03:12.07`	`Hexarobee`	`but that comes after move validation`
`03:12.16`	`Hexarobee`	`and making undo work ;)`
`03:17.05`	`MentalPower`	`:)`
`03:18.56`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge _Valgrind (n=bortas@c-bb0d70d5.09-31-6c6b7010.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`03:19.06`	`Hexarobee`	`wanna test undo again?`
`03:23.24`	`MentalPower`	`yep`
`03:24.57`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Codayus (i=cody@66.90.106.40)`
`03:26.47`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kemayo_ (n=Kemayo@pool-71-103-166-178.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)`
`03:29.35`	`Cairenn`	`night clad\|sleep`
`03:35.57`	`clad\|sleep`	`night Cairenn`
`03:51.52`	`Hexarobee`	`update submitted if anyones awake ;)`
`03:52.08`	`Shadowed`	`It's only 9 PM, i'm insulted that you would think i'd be asleep!`
`03:52.56`	`Hexarobee`	`its 10:50pm here`
`03:53.08`	`Shadowed`	`s/9/10:50/`
`03:53.16`	`Hexarobee`	`the venture bros would be asleep by now`
`03:53.16`	`Cairenn`	`midnight here, and I'll approve in a sec`
`03:53.20`	`Hexarobee`	`thx`
`03:53.30`	`Hexarobee`	`sorry about 3 versions in one night ;)`
`03:53.33`	`Shadowed`	`s/9/12/`
`03:53.50`	`Hexarobee`	`i had been faking messages with macros, and i was capitalizing my opponents name`
`03:53.56`	`Cairenn`	`not a problem, folks have submitted a lot more than that in one evening`
`03:54.11`	`Hexarobee`	`so i needed to lower them both to compare`
`03:54.40`	`Cairenn`	`approved`
`04:23.16`	`ckknight`	`I have written AceComm!`
`04:23.17`	`ckknight`	`yay`
`04:28.32`	`clad\|sleep`	`lol`
`04:30.41`	`Cairenn`	`clad\|sleep: you sleep as well as I do`
`04:32.03`	`clad\|sleep`	`Cairenn: Tell me abou tit`
`04:32.06`	`clad\|sleep`	`are you readin the other channel`
`04:32.08`	`clad\|sleep`	`i'm pumped`
`04:32.09`	`clad\|sleep`	`lol`
`04:32.28`	`Cairenn`	`I hadn't been, but I can`
`04:33.51`	`clad\|sleep`	`no its not necessary`
`04:33.53`	`clad\|sleep`	`i'm just excited`
`04:34.02`	`clad\|sleep`	`going to the UK the weekend of sept 9th-10th`
`04:34.13`	`clad\|sleep`	`never been there.. i'm excited.`
`04:34.20`	`Cairenn`	`nice!`
`04:34.24`	`clad\|sleep`	`and i'm gonna hit up leg to see if we can get together`
`04:34.40`	`Cairenn`	`making me jealous you know`
`04:35.12`	`Cide`	`it's 6:35am and I'm insulted that you would think I'd be alseep!`
`04:35.33`	`Cide`	`:)`
`04:35.35`	`clad\|sleep`	`Cairenn: <3 come with me.. airfare is really cheap`
`04:35.46`	`Cairenn`	`god, don't tempt me`
`04:35.47`	`clad\|sleep`	`its an academic conference at the university at the top of my list for PhD work at the moment.`
`04:54.58`	`Shadowed`	`hmm, mod that gives an approx of your enemies attack speed`
`04:59.31`	`clad\|sleep`	`ooh thats fun`
`04:59.51`	`Shadowed`	`It's pretty hard to read the guys code`
`05:00.08`	`Shadowed`	`http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-2069-1-attack-bar-timer.html`
`05:01.21`	`Shadowed`	`Intending is screwy, variables names make no sense and he randomly decides when to intend and when to ignore it o.o`
`05:07.12`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin (i=Wobin@218-214-59-86.people.net.au)`
`05:07.22`	`Wobin`	`any ideas as to when 1.12 is coming in?`
`05:07.44`	`Shadowed`	`Rough guess? 2 weeks`
`05:08.02`	`Shadowed`	`we can get the required dependency of an addon, but we can't get the optional?`
`05:08.42`	`Shadowed`	`Time to make use of GetAddOnMetadata i guess`
`05:22.32`	`clad\|sleep`	`anyoneknow what this means?`
`05:22.35`	`clad\|sleep`	`"a first or 2:1 degree"`
`05:24.33`	`ckknight`	`2 weeks?`
`05:24.37`	`ckknight`	`wtf, so soon.`
`05:24.43`	`ckknight`	`that's way too soon`
`05:24.55`	`ckknight`	`I'd say closer to 6 weeks as a rough guess`
`05:25.00`	`ckknight`	`and even then, that's optimistic`
`05:25.00`	`Shadowed`	`I don't think that long`
`05:25.07`	`ckknight`	`I dunno`
`05:25.16`	`clad\|sleep`	`not that long.`
`05:25.19`	`clad\|sleep`	`not at all`
`05:25.19`	`ckknight`	`really?`
`05:25.23`	`Shadowed`	`they aren't testing a new dungeon`
`05:25.25`	`clad\|sleep`	`most of the bugs are already ironed.`
`05:25.26`	`clad\|sleep`	`2 weeks.`
`05:25.27`	`clad\|sleep`	`max`
`05:25.35`	`ckknight`	`clad, should I even port AceComm to 1.11, then?`
`05:25.35`	`Shadowed`	`2-3 weeks, maybe a month.`
`05:26.08`	`clad\|sleep`	`ckknight: hrm.. i'd say no.`
`05:26.17`	`clad\|sleep`	`but get it to the parties that would like to use it.`
`05:26.18`	`ckknight`	`currently it can only use "PARTY"\|"GUILD"\|"RAID"\|"BATTLEGROUND"\|"GROUP" in 1.12`
`05:26.25`	`Shadowed`	`They just released a patch a couple of days ago, and they still have some different things to fix. So that most likely means a week for them to fix stuff, another week of testing and maybe one more patch of fixes`
`05:26.30`	`Shadowed`	`ckknight: GROUP?`
`05:26.31`	`ckknight`	`but it can use "WHISPER"\|"GLOBAL" fine`
`05:26.42`	`Shadowed`	`ah nm, you mean acecomm not sendaddonmessage`
`05:26.47`	`ckknight`	`Shadowed, yea, it's "BATTLEGROUND" or "RAID" or "PARTY", depending on the situation`
`05:34.54`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Esamynn_ (n=jbcc@d207-216-176-153.bchsia.telus.net)`
`05:38.37`	`clad\|sleep`	`night all`
`05:39.10`	`Shadowed`	`night clad\|sleep`
`05:41.57`	`Esamynn`	`Evening all`
`05:45.07`	`ckknight`	`hey Esamynn`
`05:49.37`	`DoomGaze3`	`what's up?`
`06:22.22`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kemayo (n=Kemayo@pool-71-103-166-178.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)`
`06:44.39`	`DoomGaze3`	`I'm curious: language GUTTERSPEAK`
`06:44.44`	`DoomGaze3`	`who speaks that?`
`06:44.56`	`Shadowed`	`Troll or Orcs i think`
`06:45.05`	`Shadowed`	`Probably trolls`
`06:45.17`	`DoomGaze3`	`huh`
`06:45.28`	`DoomGaze3`	`it's amazing the shit you can find digging around in all this code`
`06:45.50`	`DoomGaze3`	`what's the most interesting thing you've found, Shadowed?`
`06:45.59`	`Shadowed`	`In FrameXML?`
`06:46.03`	`DoomGaze3`	`ya`
`06:46.21`	`Shadowed`	`Havn't really looked through everything that closely, mostly i keep to the BG related stuff`
`06:47.01`	`ckknight`	`Undead.`
`06:47.04`	`DoomGaze3`	`well, ya gotta find out what you're hooking right?`
`06:47.06`	`ckknight`	`Undead speak Gutterspeak`
`06:47.15`	`ckknight`	`Trolls speak Troll`
`06:47.16`	`DoomGaze3`	`I make it a point to know what I'm hooking`
`06:47.19`	`ckknight`	`Orcs speak Orcish`
`06:47.29`	`ckknight`	`Tauren speak Taurahe`
`06:47.39`	`DoomGaze3`	`there is no troll language listed on here`
`06:47.49`	`ckknight`	`it's Troll`
`06:47.53`	`ckknight`	`:-P`
`06:48.04`	`Shadowed`	`My mod (SSPVP) is battleground related, so besides ChatFrames, BattlefieldFrame, Blizzard_BattlefieldMap, WorldStateFrame I havn't had to do hooking outside of those :p`
`06:48.16`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Industrial (n=tom@hellsblade.xs4all.nl)`
`06:48.25`	`MentalPower`	`GRR!!! I hate texture transformations`
`06:48.30`	`DoomGaze3`	`not seen anything in there yet huh?`
`06:48.42`	`Shadowed`	`nope`
`06:48.52`	`MentalPower`	`and Cide's function (the one on wowwiki) doesn't work`
`06:49.02`	`MentalPower`	`oh well, I'll look at this some more tomorrow`
`06:49.04`	`MentalPower`	`gnight folks`
`06:49.04`	`Cide`	`hmm?`
`06:49.08`	`DoomGaze3`	`linky mental`
`06:49.14`	`MentalPower`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/SetTexCoord_Transformations`
`06:49.15`	`Cide`	`it works (worked) for me`
`06:49.26`	`Cide`	`iriel modified it slightly though`
`06:49.42`	`Shadowed`	`This is bugging me, http://pastebin.ca/106261 Does anyone see what the "var" entry in colors is returning a table and the "var" entry in cname is returning a string?`
`06:49.44`	`DoomGaze3`	`I happen to have a degree in this stuff, I might be able to help u with it`
`06:49.50`	`MentalPower`	`I copy/pasted it and all it does is that it dissapears my texture`
`06:50.00`	`Cide`	`using what matrix?`
`06:50.04`	`MentalPower`	`instead of rotating it X degrees`
`06:50.11`	`MentalPower`	`the one below the function`
`06:50.23`	`MentalPower`	`setCoords(texture, cos(angle), sin(angle), 0, -sin(angle), cos(angle), 0);`
`06:51.04`	`Cide`	`did you call it like that?`
`06:51.12`	`Shadowed`	`oh duh`
`06:51.17`	`Cide`	`and what was "angle" set to?`
`06:51.26`	`MentalPower`	`90, 180, you name it I tried it`
`06:51.46`	`Cide`	`just checking if you mixed radians and degrees`
`06:51.54`	`Cide`	`the global versions of "sin" and "cos" use degrees`
`06:52.06`	`MentalPower`	`I did it just as its there`
`06:52.41`	`DoomGaze3`	`ugh, I just realized I forgot the math. fuggin math.`
`06:53.00`	`Cide`	`http://pastecode.com/2248`
`06:53.08`	`ckknight`	`math is fun`
`06:53.10`	`Cide`	`that's what I use`
`06:53.18`	`ckknight`	`I'm been working on math for the past day straight`
`06:53.20`	`DoomGaze3`	`coordinates and matricies and dotproducts. OH MY!`
`06:53.36`	`Cide`	`try that instead`
`06:53.38`	`ckknight`	`figuring out all the mathematics behind addon communications is fun ;-)`
`06:53.46`	`DoomGaze3`	`this looks like your standard matrix multiply tho`
`06:54.08`	`DoomGaze3`	`you might want to take a look at one of the matrix libraries on sourceforge and compare them`
`06:54.09`	`Cide`	`it's not the exact function on that page, but like I said, iriel modified it slightly and might've screwed it up (gasp!)`
`06:54.28`	`ckknight`	`hey, Cide, you're a developer who's dealt with comm, do you have any suggestions for AceComm? Current: http://wiki.wowace.com/index.php/AceComm-2.0 and http://wiki.wowace.com/index.php/AceComm-2.0_API_Documentation`
`06:55.58`	`Cide`	`can't really look now, I need to sleep :/ sorry`
`06:57.32`	`MentalPower`	`nop`
`06:57.38`	`MentalPower`	`same story`
`06:57.55`	`MentalPower`	`before function texture looks normal, after function it dissapears`
`06:58.30`	`DoomGaze3`	`why don't you feedback a message in game to find out what the values are?`
`06:58.34`	`ckknight`	`that's okay`
`06:58.50`	`DoomGaze3`	`that might give you some clue where the fudge up is happening`
`06:58.58`	`Cide`	`MentalPower: can you pastecode your relevant code?`
`06:58.59`	`ckknight`	`just know that once it's done, it'll be really easy for you and other devs to use, even if you don't want to mess with other Ace stuff`
`06:59.31`	`Cide`	`that's cool :)`
`06:59.41`	`ckknight`	`yep.`
`06:59.46`	`DoomGaze3`	`I'm too OO as it is. Ace would probably cramp my style.`
`07:00.06`	`MentalPower`	`http://pastey.net/47`
`07:00.34`	`ckknight`	`OO?`
`07:00.42`	`ckknight`	`<PROTECTED>`
`07:00.43`	`DoomGaze3`	`object oriented`
`07:00.51`	`MentalPower`	`http://pastey.net/47?hi=13,14,15`
`07:00.52`	`ckknight`	`how would Ace cramp your style?`
`07:00.57`	`ckknight`	`I'm talking Ace2, now`
`07:00.59`	`ckknight`	`not Ace 1.x`
`07:01.01`	`DoomGaze3`	`ya. I use C style objects in Lua`
`07:01.03`	`MentalPower`	`highighted relevant lines`
`07:01.07`	`DoomGaze3`	`structs and locals`
`07:01.29`	`ckknight`	`well, Ace2 works really nicely now`
`07:01.34`	`ckknight`	`very modularized`
`07:01.42`	`ckknight`	`if you want event capabilities, you plug in that module`
`07:01.47`	`ckknight`	`if you don't need it, don't include it`
`07:01.48`	`ckknight`	`and such`
`07:02.16`	`Cide`	`MentalPower: looks correct to me.. not sure why it doesn't work :/`
`07:02.16`	`DoomGaze3`	`I'll take a look at it, but I want to get my current mod working first`
`07:02.26`	`ckknight`	`Ace is more about low CPU/memory usage than it is about OO :-P`
`07:02.39`	`ckknight`	`though OO does help us achieve what we want`
`07:03.00`	`DoomGaze3`	`the page says it aims for an OO framework for ui mods`
`07:03.37`	`DoomGaze3`	`I'm still learning Lua tho, so we'll see`
`07:03.38`	`ckknight`	`well, I wrote the majority of Ace2, so there.`
`07:03.45`	`MentalPower`	`yeah, I'll look at it with a freah set of eyes tomorrow`
`07:03.47`	`ckknight`	`take my word over the page :-P`
`07:03.57`	`MentalPower`	`if it doesn't work I'll just create the rotated textures`
`07:04.18`	`DoomGaze3`	`kk`
`07:05.37`	`DoomGaze3`	`speaking of which, does lua support static locals?`
`07:05.48`	`ckknight`	`what do you mean by that?`
`07:05.56`	`ckknight`	`static?`
`07:06.13`	`DoomGaze3`	`well, in c, you could declare a variable that would stay inside that function's scope at all times`
`07:06.21`	`ckknight`	`ah`
`07:06.24`	`ckknight`	`I'll show you how`
`07:06.37`	`Cide`	`we get signal`
`07:06.40`	`Cide`	`main screen turn on`
`07:06.54`	`Cide`	`nah. time for bed. good night`
`07:08.23`	`ckknight`	`DoomGaze3, http://ace.pastebin.ca/106280`
`07:10.22`	`Cide`	`interesting...`
`07:10.29`	`ckknight`	`hrm?`
`07:10.33`	`Cide`	`( (0/0) == (0/0) ) == false`
`07:10.38`	`ckknight`	`right`
`07:10.42`	`Cide`	`how does that make sense`
`07:10.44`	`ckknight`	`NaN ~= NaN`
`07:10.55`	`DoomGaze3`	`that's pretty dam cool ck, thanks!`
`07:10.55`	`ckknight`	`NaN is a special number`
`07:10.57`	`Cide`	`is there an easy way to check for NaN then?`
`07:11.03`	`ckknight`	`yea, there is`
`07:11.06`	`ckknight`	`x ~= x`
`07:11.12`	`ckknight`	`means NaN`
`07:11.14`	`Cide`	`heh, good point`
`07:11.19`	`ckknight`	`;-)`
`07:11.40`	`Cide`	`if ( name and health == health ) then`
`07:11.43`	`Cide`	`interesting if statement!`
`07:12.43`	`ckknight`	`hehe`
`07:12.57`	`ckknight`	`alternatively, you could write an explicit isNaN function`
`07:13.07`	`DoomGaze3`	`hey CK, would you be interested in taking a look over my code and commenting on what I have so far?`
`07:13.08`	`Cide`	`nah, this will do fine :) thanks`
`07:13.10`	`ckknight`	`local funtion isNaN(x) return x ~= x end`
`07:13.16`	`ckknight`	`DoomGaze3, sure, I'm not busy`
`07:13.24`	`ckknight`	`function*`
`07:13.26`	`DoomGaze3`	`awesome... one sec...`
`07:14.58`	`DoomGaze3`	`pastebin is losing my formatting for some reason...`
`07:15.11`	`DoomGaze3`	`any ideas why?`
`07:15.34`	`ckknight`	`pastebin.ca?`
`07:16.09`	`DoomGaze3`	`http://ace.pastebin.ca/106286`
`07:17.03`	`DoomGaze3`	`obviously unfinished, but there is not much more work to do before it's ready for the real test`
`07:17.54`	`ckknight`	`DoomGaze3, why aren't your functions local or in a namespace?`
`07:18.15`	`DoomGaze3`	`eh`
`07:18.33`	`DoomGaze3`	`what?`
`07:18.53`	`DoomGaze3`	`I didn't know I could define a namespace`
`07:18.57`	`DoomGaze3`	`that'd be uber cool`
`07:19.03`	`ckknight`	`sure can`
`07:19.08`	`ckknight`	`local myNamespace = {}`
`07:19.09`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com)`
`07:19.20`	`ckknight`	`;-)`
`07:19.29`	`ckknight`	`function myNamespace:IsTimeUp() .. end`
`07:20.01`	`ckknight`	`tables can act as namespaces`
`07:20.22`	`ckknight`	`since functions are first-class values`
`07:20.33`	`Cide`	`a side effect of what ckknight said is that you get myNamespace passed as the variable "self" inside those functions`
`07:20.49`	`DoomGaze3`	`do I need to change the calls?`
`07:21.00`	`DoomGaze3`	`inside the namespace? just the definitions right?`
`07:21.04`	`Cide`	`you should use self:FunctionName()`
`07:21.35`	`ckknight`	`if you use the : syntax, self is a reference to the current namespace`
`07:21.36`	`DoomGaze3`	`wow, I use a ton of helper functions, okay...`
`07:21.51`	`ckknight`	`also, you can store your data in the namespace if you want as well`
`07:22.01`	`ckknight`	`myNamespace.auctionBaseTime = 10`
`07:22.12`	`ckknight`	`then you can refer to it with self as well`
`07:22.18`	`Cide`	`ah`
`07:22.21`	`Cide`	`stop keeping me up`
`07:22.23`	`Cide`	`good night`
`07:22.29`	`DoomGaze3`	`g'nite cide`
`07:22.58`	`DoomGaze3`	`other than that, I think it's pretty clean. Most of the other bid mods I've looked at are sloppy and don't account for a lot of things`
`07:23.39`	`ckknight`	`seems good`
`07:24.00`	`ckknight`	`I still find the if (...) then syntax odd for lua`
`07:24.03`	`ckknight`	`same with semicolons`
`07:24.08`	`DoomGaze3`	`now do I have to call functions inside my namespace with self.MyFunc or is it safe to leave the calls alone?`
`07:24.08`	`ckknight`	`that's personal preference, though`
`07:24.19`	`ckknight`	`self:MyFunc(...)`
`07:24.28`	`DoomGaze3`	`I'm a c guy, the ifs and semicolons are my security blanket`
`07:24.35`	`ckknight`	`colon, not dot for functions`
`07:24.36`	`ckknight`	`hehe.`
`07:25.02`	`ckknight`	`the reason C needed parentheses is because they didn't have a "then" syntax bit`
`07:25.08`	`ckknight`	`they had {, but it was optional`
`07:25.31`	`DoomGaze3`	`I hate how lua bitches and moans when you forget that. :D`
`07:25.38`	`ckknight`	`also, semicolons are unneeded, it's just that when C was created a lexer was hard to come by`
`07:25.52`	`ckknight`	`well, a complex one as lua's`
`07:26.25`	`DoomGaze3`	`I'd imagine a lot of Blizz's UI coders are C monkeys`
`07:26.36`	`DoomGaze3`	`cause they use similar syntax`
`07:26.41`	`ckknight`	`likely C++`
`07:26.53`	`DoomGaze3`	`I was just following their style`
`07:27.01`	`ckknight`	`alright`
`07:27.15`	`ckknight`	`personal preference, though`
`07:27.18`	`ckknight`	`I'm a minimalist`
`07:28.08`	`DoomGaze3`	`i've had problems creating newlines in concatenations. I'm not sure what the syntax is`
`07:28.10`	`DoomGaze3`	`like`
`07:28.34`	`ckknight`	`"Hey dude\`
`07:28.37`	`ckknight`	`monkey pants"`
`07:28.39`	`ckknight`	`afaik`
`07:28.49`	`DoomGaze3`	`SendChatMessage("blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah"..<newline>"blahblahblah"); doesn't work`
`07:28.53`	`ckknight`	`also, "Hey dude\nmonkey pants"`
`07:29.04`	`ckknight`	`"alpha" ..`
`07:29.06`	`ckknight`	`"bravo"`
`07:29.12`	`ckknight`	`gives "alphabravo"`
`07:30.14`	`DoomGaze3`	`when I call functions inside the namespace I absolutely have to call with self:MyFunc() huh?`
`07:30.28`	`DoomGaze3`	`this dam editor doesn't have search and replace. :(`
`07:30.53`	`ckknight`	`you can do myNamespace:MyFunc()`
`07:31.05`	`ckknight`	`self == myNamespace in that case`
`07:31.46`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Andalia (n=xx@p54ADB532.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`07:32.53`	`DoomGaze3`	`I'm afraid I'll break what I have if I use a namespace. making my functions local will work just fine with what I have tho, right?`
`07:33.01`	`Esamynn`	`DoomGaze there is a way to get close to intelligent scoping, but it means that accessing the global namespace is slightly slower and you have to specify the global namespace specifically to write to it`
`07:34.15`	`ckknight`	`DoomGaze3, right.`
`07:34.36`	`ckknight`	`local _G = getfenv(0)`
`07:34.39`	`ckknight`	`_G.monkey`
`07:35.41`	`DoomGaze3`	`I'll make sure to namespace it at the first opportunity, but I just want to get this working for starters. you know what I mean?`
`07:36.00`	`ckknight`	`sure do.`
`07:36.29`	`DoomGaze3`	`the keyword local works at the file level right?`
`07:36.34`	`DoomGaze3`	`er`
`07:36.38`	`DoomGaze3`	`lemmie reprase that`
`07:37.08`	`DoomGaze3`	`the scope for a local defined outside a function is the file right?`
`07:37.26`	`ckknight`	`yes.`
`07:37.42`	`ckknight`	`imagine that a do .. end is surrounding the file.`
`07:37.51`	`DoomGaze3`	`k`
`07:40.39`	`DoomGaze3`	`will setting my hooked functions as local affect them?`
`07:41.32`	`Esamynn`	`DoomGaze3: btw, the code for what I mention earlier goes something like this: http://wow.pastey.net/49`
`07:41.46`	`DoomGaze3`	`looking...`
`07:42.33`	`ckknight`	`DoomGaze3, yes, hooked functions replace the globals.`
`07:42.49`	`Esamynn`	`after I came up with that idea, I actually discovered that the lua book on the Lua site suggests the same thing, I'll post the explination link`
`07:43.17`	`DoomGaze3`	`so my hooks need to be global then`
`07:43.59`	`Esamynn`	`http://www.lua.org/pil/15.4.html`
`07:45.16`	`ckknight`	`yes, DoomGaze3`
`07:45.50`	`DoomGaze3`	`what about functions called from my xml?`
`07:46.36`	`ckknight`	`those are calling globals`
`07:46.43`	`ckknight`	`also, xml is icky.`
`07:46.52`	`DoomGaze3`	`don't like xml eh?`
`07:47.35`	`ckknight`	`it's not needed`
`07:47.54`	`ckknight`	`I prefer doing it in lua`
`07:47.55`	`DoomGaze3`	`how would you suggest the interface be designed?`
`07:47.59`	`DoomGaze3`	`ah`
`07:48.11`	`DoomGaze3`	`programmatically`
`07:48.15`	`DoomGaze3`	`like winapi style`
`07:48.17`	`ckknight`	`you can do things on demand and such`
`07:48.52`	`Esamynn`	`XML is still good for writing templates for your ondemand objects`
`07:49.03`	`Esamynn`	`smaller overhead`
`07:49.28`	`DoomGaze3`	`well`
`07:49.49`	`ckknight`	`Esamynn, not necessarily.`
`07:49.59`	`DoomGaze3`	`going with the c monkies at blizzard, I think they wanted a kind of header`
`07:50.26`	`Esamynn`	`the store XML virtual templates are VERY small in memory, Slouken said the entire set of blizz templates uses around 1/2 a MB`
`07:50.46`	`Esamynn`	`you can't say the same for the lua equivalent`
`07:51.08`	`DoomGaze3`	`I'm sure the interpreter takes up more memory than that`
`07:51.13`	`DoomGaze3`	`that's just speculation tho`
`07:52.09`	`ckknight`	`Esamynn, for the creation of one frame vs. a template + dynamic frame isn't going to be any different memory-wise, really.`
`07:53.05`	`Esamynn`	`I wasn't thinking of the creation of just one though`
`07:55.17`	`DoomGaze3`	`I will admit that it is kinda lame that you need to create another frame for every copy you need to show on the screen`
`07:55.40`	`DoomGaze3`	`I hate code clutter`
`07:56.04`	`DoomGaze3`	`that's why I'm not namespacing my code right now`
`07:56.53`	`ckknight`	`semicolons are clutter :-P`
`07:57.15`	`DoomGaze3`	`they're comfort clutter, man!`
`07:57.15`	`DoomGaze3`	`:)`
`07:58.02`	`DoomGaze3`	`prefixing all my function calls with my initials or something similar seems like clutter to me`
`07:58.24`	`DoomGaze3`	`that's just my opinion tho, I could be wrong. :D`
`07:58.26`	`ckknight`	`self:?`
`07:59.03`	`DoomGaze3`	`a bit foreign to me. Like having to prefix all my function calls in C++ with this.`
`07:59.31`	`DoomGaze3`	`my main concern is keeping the code easily readable`
`08:00.02`	`ckknight`	`self is quite readable to me`
`08:00.11`	`ckknight`	`namespaces comfort me.`
`08:00.28`	`DoomGaze3`	`give me time CK. I'm sure I'll see your point of view after a couple mods`
`08:00.44`	`DoomGaze3`	`:)`
`08:02.43`	`ckknight`	`hehe`
`08:03.31`	`DoomGaze3`	`right now, my code looks as close as possible to C. and I'm quite happy that I can do that with lua.`
`08:04.43`	`ckknight`	`hehe`
`08:04.58`	`ckknight`	`C is not the be-all end-all of perfection`
`08:05.28`	`DoomGaze3`	`I'm quite aware of that. There's a boatload of stuff I don't like about it. Too strongly typed, for example.`
`08:05.58`	`DoomGaze3`	`But I'm very comfortable (there's that word again) with it`
`08:06.41`	`DoomGaze3`	`I love that I can stick anything the hell I want in a lua variable`
`08:07.07`	`ckknight`	`C is weakly typed`
`08:07.28`	`DoomGaze3`	`how so?`
`08:07.35`	`ckknight`	`you're may be thinking statically typed`
`08:08.14`	`DoomGaze3`	`that's a good way of putting it. Either way, C definitely doesn't work well with strings. In lua, it's second nature`
`08:08.17`	`Corrodias`	`i admit that i don't know the distinction here.`
`08:09.11`	`ckknight`	`static vs. dynamic typing:`
`08:09.20`	`ckknight`	`dynamic typing is also called duck typing`
`08:09.36`	`ckknight`	`cause if it acts like a duck and walks like a duck, treat it like a duck`
`08:09.51`	`Corrodias`	`eh?`
`08:09.53`	`ckknight`	`basically, there aren't compile-time types like int and float and whatnot`
`08:10.06`	`ckknight`	`in a dynamic language:`
`08:10.09`	`ckknight`	`alpha = 50`
`08:10.13`	`ckknight`	`alpha = "monkey"`
`08:10.15`	`ckknight`	`works fine`
`08:10.39`	`krka`	`aye, c is staticly weak`
`08:10.40`	`Corrodias`	`how about strong vs weak types, then?`
`08:10.40`	`ckknight`	`in a statically typed language, you typically declare the type (though not necessarily: see Boo for example)`
`08:10.45`	`krka`	`lua is dynamically strong`
`08:10.46`	`DoomGaze3`	`those same lines would render compiler errors in a statically typed language`
`08:10.47`	`ckknight`	`int alpha = 50`
`08:10.53`	`ckknight`	`string bravo = "monkey"`
`08:11.13`	`ckknight`	`or alpha as int = 50 or what have you`
`08:11.22`	`ckknight`	`sometimes it can be implied, as in Boo or C# 3.0`
`08:11.37`	`ckknight`	`var alpha = 50 translates to int alpha = 50 at compile time`
`08:11.44`	`krka`	`weak is when the runtime doesn't know what the type of stuff is`
`08:11.50`	`krka`	`and doesn't really care`
`08:12.03`	`Corrodias`	`i don't understand`
`08:12.27`	`ckknight`	`weak typing is when the runtime doesn't care about types. strong typing is when the runtime _does_ care about types`
`08:12.37`	`krka`	`when c is compiled, it just uses the stuff at a certain memory address. it doesn't care what type it is, and it can't know`
`08:12.59`	`krka`	`in lua, when you get a variable, you can poke at it and see what type it is`
`08:13.09`	`ckknight`	`I'll give some examples of languages with the 4 paradigms`
`08:13.11`	`ckknight`	`Static/Strong: C#`
`08:13.15`	`ckknight`	`Static/Weak: C`
`08:13.20`	`ckknight`	`Dynamic/Strong: Python`
`08:13.26`	`ckknight`	`Dynamic/Weak: Perl`
`08:13.28`	`Corrodias`	`ckknight: a futile effort, i fear. of those four, i only know how C works.`
`08:13.57`	`Corrodias`	`i believe krka is saying that the data has no inherent type in a weakly typed language`
`08:14.02`	`ckknight`	`in many cases, dynamic languages don't necessarily have a "compile" time`
`08:14.07`	`ckknight`	`right`
`08:14.08`	`Corrodias`	`that it's all hex data, so to speak`
`08:14.25`	`ckknight`	`in a weakly-typed language, data is data, you can treat it different ways, but you don't know if you're right or not`
`08:14.37`	`ckknight`	`e.g. you can convert a float to (void*) if you really want to`
`08:15.27`	`Corrodias`	`which leads to some very confusing error messages while compiling, as i'm sure you're all aware. good god.`
`08:15.34`	`ckknight`	`right.`
`08:15.52`	`ckknight`	`and in a strongly-typed language, the type is tied to the object/reference`
`08:16.11`	`DoomGaze3`	`the type follows it everywhere`
`08:16.13`	`ckknight`	`so that you can't treat a string like a number and such, as the types don't match`
`08:16.16`	`ckknight`	`right`
`08:16.18`	`ckknight`	`alpha = 50`
`08:16.21`	`Corrodias`	`it seems to me that java would be strongly typed`
`08:16.22`	`ckknight`	`type(alpha) == "number"`
`08:16.25`	`ckknight`	`alpha = "monkey"`
`08:16.28`	`ckknight`	`type(alpha) == "string"`
`08:16.34`	`ckknight`	`it is, Corrodias`
`08:16.40`	`ckknight`	`it's Strong/Static`
`08:17.17`	`DoomGaze3`	`the reason is that java is designed to be very secure`
`08:17.34`	`ckknight`	`also, in some modern languages, you can mix static and non-static typing`
`08:17.53`	`ckknight`	`e.g. IronPython, C# 3.0, Boo`
`08:18.10`	`DoomGaze3`	`scripting languages like lua perl and python are always run by an embedded interpreter and don't provide direct access to memory locations`
`08:18.31`	`krka`	`yes, java is static/strong`
`08:18.32`	`ckknight`	`well, they theoretically could`
`08:18.34`	`ckknight`	`but they don't.`
`08:18.48`	`krka`	`oops, i was beign redundant`
`08:19.03`	`DoomGaze3`	`remember to scroll krka!`
`08:19.04`	`DoomGaze3`	`:)`
`08:19.05`	`krka`	`DoomGaze3: not entirely true, there are compilers for them`
`08:19.18`	`krka`	`i think`
`08:19.20`	`ckknight`	`yea, you can JIT a script language if you're careful enough`
`08:19.23`	`DoomGaze3`	`you're right`
`08:19.29`	`ckknight`	`e.g. IronPython can be JITted`
`08:19.29`	`krka`	`well, theoretically, they could have compilers anyway`
`08:19.55`	`DoomGaze3`	`I should have said usually`
`08:20.14`	`ckknight`	`and there's the whole "Parrot" vaporware thing now`
`08:20.19`	`ckknight`	`and LLVM`
`08:20.31`	`DoomGaze3`	`that's one of the reasons the world needs to move away from C anyways. The speed advantages are starting to fade and security concerns are rising.`
`08:21.02`	`DoomGaze3`	`I guarantee you that it would be a lot harder to hack, say Counter-Strike if it were in C#`
`08:21.36`	`ckknight`	`well, yes`
`08:22.07`	`ckknight`	`I went to school and was good friends with a guy who wrote a 3D game engine for .NET`
`08:22.13`	`ckknight`	`Axiom, afair`
`08:22.24`	`DoomGaze3`	`Makes me wonder what the world's next great language will be like`
`08:22.48`	`ckknight`	`take a look at LINQ`
`08:22.53`	`ckknight`	`from MS`
`08:22.59`	`ckknight`	`it'll be in C# 3.0`
`08:23.02`	`ckknight`	`it's like, shiny.`
`08:23.15`	`DoomGaze3`	`Even at it's time, C++ was a cobbled together mess of feature requests`
`08:23.25`	`Corrodias`	`don't even.`
`08:23.25`	`DoomGaze3`	`it retains that mess to this day`
`08:23.31`	`ckknight`	`it has to do with the unification of data from databases, XML, and objects`
`08:23.37`	`Corrodias`	`the people i've heard talk about C# all seem to like it`
`08:23.43`	`DoomGaze3`	`ck: oooh!`
`08:24.00`	`Corrodias`	`but can C# be compiled to executable code without a .net framework to run on?`
`08:24.00`	`ckknight`	`also, Boo's a pretty neat language`
`08:24.10`	`ckknight`	`no, but what's the point?`
`08:24.18`	`ckknight`	`it can be compiled to executable code`
`08:24.22`	`Corrodias`	`the fact that the .net framework cannot be written in C# is the problem`
`08:24.25`	`ckknight`	`it does need a .NET framework, though`
`08:24.42`	`Corrodias`	`it still has to run on something else... that tastes foul to me`
`08:24.44`	`DoomGaze3`	`what I think Corrodias is getting at is that it's completely unportable`
`08:25.24`	`ckknight`	`you know, technically, you could strip it down to such a point that you embed part of the framework and JIT that.`
`08:25.35`	`ckknight`	`basically, you'd be embedding the GC and such`
`08:25.43`	`ckknight`	`but there's no need to currently`
`08:25.43`	`DoomGaze3`	`and MS will do that when hell freezes over`
`08:25.44`	`Corrodias`	`i don't know about that... if the framework is well-written and actually written for many operating systems, the programs are very portable`
`08:26.09`	`ckknight`	`yea, I've done quite a bit of work in Mono`
`08:26.39`	`DoomGaze3`	`not just windows operating systems?`
`08:26.43`	`ckknight`	`nope`
`08:26.58`	`ckknight`	`I was previously a developer for Boo`
`08:27.00`	`Corrodias`	`well, i was having trouble with the idea that "run me in another program" languages just provide a pretty face to another language that you use anyway... but all languages are just providing a pretty face to assembly, in the end.`
`08:27.05`	`ckknight`	`it's a pythonesque language for .NET`
`08:27.31`	`Corrodias`	`i guess that's not a problem in itself`
`08:29.07`	`ckknight`	`what's _wrong_ with having a VM?`
`08:29.16`	`ckknight`	`it can handle things for you`
`08:29.18`	`DoomGaze3`	`they're usually slower`
`08:29.24`	`DoomGaze3`	`not good for games`
`08:29.27`	`ckknight`	`such as dynamic JITting`
`08:29.34`	`ckknight`	`DoomGaze3, that's not necessarily true.`
`08:30.07`	`DoomGaze3`	`it adds another layer of calls and conversions to everything. How could it not be slower? Measurably slower, yes. Practically slower, probably not.`
`08:30.08`	`Corrodias`	`well, the VM does need to be written in another language, and rewritten for every operating system, but doing that once for the VM is better than doing it once for each program.`
`08:30.51`	`ckknight`	`Corrodias, Mono runs on many, many platforms, as it can be compiled in GCC which can output code to nearly every platform`
`08:31.00`	`ckknight`	`cross-compiling ftw`
`08:31.06`	`Corrodias`	`true, but you can't make windows API calls on a linux machine`
`08:31.31`	`Corrodias`	`maybe there are sets of headers to convert all this stuff`
`08:31.51`	`DoomGaze3`	`my point that I was making earlier was that advances in processor speeds will eventually diminish that problem so that we'll (hopefully) see more interpreted languages`
`08:31.56`	`Corrodias`	`smirk or maybe mono runs in Sun's java virtual machine. ;)`
`08:32.48`	`ckknight`	`Corrodias, why would you use Windows API calls. ick`
`08:33.15`	`DoomGaze3`	`Incidentally, don't they already have a wrapper for WinAPI calls in *nix?`
`08:33.19`	`Corrodias`	`i'm afraid i have very little experience outside of java, so i have no idea how you get anything done in windows without calling its API.`
`08:33.25`	`Corrodias`	`and only small java programs`
`08:34.03`	`ckknight`	`Corrodias, SWF is pretty good and requires no direct calls to the Win API`
`08:34.05`	`Corrodias`	`i know windows doesn't let you ask the BIOS to give you data from a file`
`08:34.08`	`ckknight`	`well, Win32 API`
`08:34.23`	`Corrodias`	`SWF? that's... shockwave flash?`
`08:34.25`	`ckknight`	`System.IO.File`
`08:34.31`	`ckknight`	`Corrodias, System.Windows.Forms`
`08:34.45`	`Esamynn`	`C# is Microsofts attempt at what Java SHOULD have been`
`08:34.59`	`ckknight`	`C# is quite nice, for all you naysayers`
`08:35.16`	`ckknight`	`the worst thing about it is that it's controlled by Microsoft`
`08:35.19`	`ckknight`	`but that's really it`
`08:35.23`	`Corrodias`	`maybe the compiler, with the help of headers and other files from a windows dev kit, translates that into api calls for you...`
`08:35.27`	`Corrodias`	`in which case, never mind.`
`08:35.42`	`Esamynn`	`Microsoft screwed over Java and then turned around and came out with C# to replace it when they could have put the same force behind java and we would have been MUCH better off`
`08:35.50`	`ckknight`	`Corrodias, what about Mono, though?`
`08:36.00`	`Esamynn`	`Java could have been what ppl think C# is`
`08:36.10`	`Corrodias`	`er, what about it?`
`08:36.13`	`ckknight`	`this is true`
`08:36.16`	`DoomGaze3`	`LANGUAGE WARS!`
`08:36.20`	`Esamynn`	`and more, because Java is PORTABLE`
`08:36.20`	`ckknight`	`but I like C# better,still`
`08:36.34`	`ckknight`	`C# is portable as long as you don't make direct calls`
`08:36.43`	`ckknight`	`I've done cross-coding with it`
`08:36.45`	`Esamynn`	`oh rly?`
`08:36.48`	`ckknight`	`yes.`
`08:36.50`	`Esamynn`	`I didn't know that`
`08:36.51`	`DoomGaze3`	`ya rly`
`08:37.05`	`ckknight`	`also, I've written my own compiler for .NET`
`08:37.06`	`Esamynn`	`bastiges`
`08:37.15`	`ckknight`	`we all love a Brainfuck compiler, eh?`
`08:37.25`	`DoomGaze3`	`NS has been uncharacteristically generous lately. That scares me.`
`08:37.27`	`Corrodias`	`wait, protected mode. i forgot. okay, this is getting too deep into the functions of an Operating System, of which i am almost completely ignorant.`
`08:37.28`	`ckknight`	`I've also been a developer for Boo, which had its own compiler`
`08:37.30`	`Corrodias`	`i have to back out, now`
`08:37.32`	`Esamynn`	`they just refused to put their support behind Java because they didn't control it`
`08:37.46`	`ckknight`	`DoomGaze3, MS?`
`08:37.57`	`DoomGaze3`	`Microsoft`
`08:37.58`	`Esamynn`	`that really is the only reason C# exists, Java could have been the same and better`
`08:37.58`	`ckknight`	`Esamynn, NIH issues.`
`08:38.04`	`ckknight`	`DoomGaze3, you misspelled MS.`
`08:38.12`	`ckknight`	`could've, but isn't`
`08:38.21`	`Esamynn`	`NIH?`
`08:38.22`	`DoomGaze3`	`It's late. You can get basic versions of the entire Visual Studio for free`
`08:38.26`	`ckknight`	`Not-invented-here`
`08:38.32`	`Esamynn`	`precisely`
`08:38.39`	`Esamynn`	`and they wanted to CONTROL it`
`08:38.56`	`ckknight`	`frankly, .NET does a lot of things nicer than Java that Java will never do`
`08:38.57`	`Esamynn`	`basic MS philosophy`
`08:39.03`	`ckknight`	`such as exceptions and whatnot`
`08:39.05`	`ckknight`	`and properties`
`08:39.11`	`ckknight`	`which are a Delphi thing`
`08:39.37`	`ckknight`	`and MS has both VB.NET and C#, so they develop a neutral .NET`
`08:39.54`	`ckknight`	`Java just has Java, the JVM is made for Java and not attuned for other languages in the slightest`
`08:40.13`	`Esamynn`	`it's just another example of why MS drives me crazy`
`08:40.14`	`ckknight`	`also, MS is putting their full support behind IronPython now`
`08:40.21`	`End`	`ahhhhh soooo tiirrreeed`
`08:40.28`	`ckknight`	`Esamynn, hrm?`
`08:40.35`	`Corrodias`	`you are suggesting that other languages besides the specific .net ones can use the .net framework VM?`
`08:40.53`	`Corrodias`	`if so designed`
`08:40.55`	`Esamynn`	`nm, I'm too tired to go into this right now, perhaps another time`
`08:40.58`	`Esamynn`	`night all`
`08:41.01`	`Corrodias`	`ni`
`08:41.04`	`ckknight`	`Corrodias, yes.`
`08:41.06`	`DoomGaze3`	`kinda like what COM was designed to do. But COM fails.`
`08:41.15`	`Corrodias`	`i know nothing of COM`
`08:41.26`	`DoomGaze3`	`Massive. Pain. In. Teh. Ass.`
`08:42.42`	`ckknight`	`Boo is independantly made, it works with .NET, so was Nemerle, and so was Oberon and PHP and Object Pascal`
`08:43.09`	`ckknight`	`.NET 2.0 added quite a few things for dynamic languages to use`
`08:43.27`	`ckknight`	`lightweight dynamic code creation, for instance`
`08:43.28`	`Corrodias`	`interesting... they make platform-independent calls to the .net API which handles talking to the OS, right? let's see if i'm understanding the purpose of a VM.`
`08:43.37`	`ckknight`	`right.`
`08:44.09`	`ckknight`	`System.IO.File works like it should whether I'm on Windows, Linux, Mac, on a PPC, and x86, or a SPARC`
`08:50.23`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (i=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl)`
`08:54.09`	`DoomGaze3`	`everyone goes back to coding. :D`
`08:54.26`	`ckknight`	`yep`
`08:54.29`	`ckknight`	`I'm working on AceComm`
`08:54.37`	`DoomGaze3`	`linky`
`08:55.50`	`ckknight`	`http://wiki.wowace.com/index.php/AceComm-2.0 , http://wiki.wowace.com/index.php/AceComm-2.0_API_Documentation , http://svn.wowace.com/root/trunk/Ace2/AceComm-2.0/`
`08:56.52`	`DoomGaze3`	`ah`
`08:57.14`	`DoomGaze3`	`This would be cool to make a little monopoly minigame with`
`08:57.21`	`DoomGaze3`	`that's my next project`
`08:57.30`	`ckknight`	`you can use it in non-Ace apps as well, if you want`
`08:57.45`	`ckknight`	`AceLibrary("AceComm-2.0"):embed(MyAddon)`
`08:58.05`	`ckknight`	`then it injects the methods you want into the MyAddon namespace`
`08:58.18`	`ckknight`	`btw, monopoly'd be pimp`
`08:58.25`	`DoomGaze3`	`i kno`
`08:58.46`	`ckknight`	`frankly, I think it'd be easier to start a new project in Ace2, though`
`08:58.52`	`ckknight`	`that's just me, though`
`08:59.07`	`ckknight`	`though it's hard to describe Ace2, now`
`08:59.10`	`wereHamster`	`ckknight, didn't slouken tell us that the messages sent to the comm channel won't be 'drunkified' ?`
`08:59.18`	`ckknight`	`right, they won't`
`08:59.22`	`DoomGaze3`	`I probably will do that one in Ace2. It seems a little overbuilt for my current addon`
`08:59.23`	`Industrial`	`\o/`
`08:59.35`	`DoomGaze3`	`KISS`
`08:59.35`	`ckknight`	`wereHamster, for SendAddonMessage, I don't put on a drunk filter`
`08:59.39`	`ckknight`	`but for SendChatMessage, I do`
`08:59.59`	`ckknight`	`I find things are simpler with Ace :-P`
`09:00.19`	`ckknight`	`wereHamster, but for SendAddonMessage, you still can't send through \|, \000, or \n`
`09:00.44`	`ckknight`	`also, I can send through arbitrary values such as numbers, booleans, nils, strings, and tables`
`09:01.53`	`wereHamster`	`my lib can that, too`
`09:02.17`	`ckknight`	`verb`
`09:02.29`	`ckknight`	`also, mine has proper datagramming`
`09:02.31`	`ckknight`	`what's your lib?`
`09:02.37`	`ckknight`	`didn't know you had one`
`09:03.22`	`wereHamster`	`I don't care about datagraming, I simply discard the message if it's too long ;)`
`09:03.53`	`ckknight`	`I don't`
`09:03.59`	`ckknight`	`every packet is special to me`
`09:04.13`	`DoomGaze3`	`datagraming?`
`09:04.23`	`ckknight`	`DoomGaze3, splitting up packets and rejoining them later`
`09:04.29`	`DoomGaze3`	`that's what I thought`
`09:04.38`	`ckknight`	`e.g. with AceComm, I can send a 1000-char message across the stream no hassle`
`09:04.56`	`DoomGaze3`	`You're a lot like me CK: If you're gonna do something, do it damn right.`
`09:05.03`	`ckknight`	`right.`
`09:05.15`	`ckknight`	`also, it properly datagrams with respect to drunkenness`
`09:05.51`	`ckknight`	`e.g. a lot of 's's could turn into 'sh's, so the theoretical maximum length is expanded`
`09:07.40`	`DoomGaze3`	`lua question: if I have a table (MyTable) of strings with n elements, does MyTable refer to the first element?`
`09:07.54`	`ckknight`	`no`
`09:08.01`	`ckknight`	`next(myTable) gets you the first key`
`09:08.14`	`DoomGaze3`	`does it refer to any value at all?`
`09:08.27`	`ckknight`	`what do you mean?`
`09:08.41`	`ckknight`	`in a numerically indexed list, MyTable[1] is the first element`
`09:08.46`	`DoomGaze3`	`is it not nil?`
`09:09.00`	`ckknight`	`I don't know, it's your table`
`09:09.41`	`DoomGaze3`	`what would MyTable equal if it was populated with values?`
`09:10.17`	`ckknight`	`equal?`
`09:10.23`	`ckknight`	`MyTable == MyTable`
`09:10.34`	`ckknight`	`it's a reference`
`09:10.51`	`ckknight`	`like a table* type in C :-P`
`09:11.10`	`DoomGaze3`	`in C, the address always points to the first element`
`09:11.30`	`ckknight`	`if you do *thing, yes`
`09:11.33`	`ckknight`	`but not in lua`
`09:11.36`	`ckknight`	`it doesn't work that way`
`09:11.39`	`ckknight`	`it's not C`
`09:11.50`	`DoomGaze3`	`so MyTable itself is a hash of some sort`
`09:11.54`	`ckknight`	`yes.`
`09:11.56`	`DoomGaze3`	`kk`
`09:12.04`	`ckknight`	`tables are essentially dictionaries`
`09:12.10`	`ckknight`	`they can work like lists, though`
`09:24.27`	`DoomGaze3`	`MyTable = {}; table.getn(MyTable) == 0`
`09:24.29`	`DoomGaze3`	`?`
`09:24.35`	`ckknight`	`true.`
`09:24.39`	`DoomGaze3`	`ty`
`09:25.19`	`DoomGaze3`	`is there a function to clear a table or do I just keep poking at it until it's empty?`
`09:25.55`	`wereHamster`	`for k,_ in MyTable do MyTable[k] = nil end`
`09:26.13`	`wereHamster`	`does that work?`
`09:26.16`	`ckknight`	`well, sorta`
`09:26.21`	`ckknight`	`not full, Mr. Hamster`
`09:26.31`	`DoomGaze3`	`garbage collection takes care of the rest eh?`
`09:27.04`	`ckknight`	`function destroy(t) setmetatable(t, nil) for k in pairs(t) do t[k] = nil end table.setn(t, 0) end`
`09:27.32`	`wereHamster`	`I'm never sure if iterating over a table and deleting keys in the same loop works..`
`09:27.34`	`ckknight`	`that fully clears a table`
`09:27.40`	`ckknight`	`it does`
`09:27.57`	`DoomGaze3`	`hmmm`
`09:28.06`	`ckknight`	`it's due to a GC trick and the single-threaded nature of Lua`
`09:28.30`	`ckknight`	`also, when iterating, always use pairs or ipairs`
`09:28.46`	`ckknight`	`for k in t do ... end is improper and deprecated`
`09:29.22`	`DoomGaze3`	`how about: while table.remove(MyTable)`
`09:29.52`	`DoomGaze3`	`would that work?`
`09:29.56`	`ckknight`	`it's technically slower`
`09:30.12`	`ckknight`	`especially when you get n > 100`
`09:30.26`	`DoomGaze3`	`won't get that big in this case`
`09:30.42`	`DoomGaze3`	`by the way, was that a valid statement?`
`09:31.14`	`wereHamster`	`you're missing an 'end'`
`09:31.17`	`ckknight`	`while table.remove(MyTable) ~= nil do end is technically correct`
`09:31.45`	`DoomGaze3`	`what's that ~= operator do?`
`09:31.49`	`wereHamster`	`!=`
`09:32.07`	`ckknight`	`yea, it's not equal`
`09:32.20`	`ckknight`	`in lua`
`09:32.53`	`ckknight`	`it's weird when you start out, but you get used to it`
`09:32.58`	`DoomGaze3`	`ya`
`09:33.32`	`DoomGaze3`	`so now I have: while table.remove(MyTable) do end`
`09:33.37`	`DoomGaze3`	`yay`
`09:34.27`	`ckknight`	`for k in pairs(MyTable) do MyTable[k] = nil end table.setn(MyTable, 0) is faster`
`09:35.03`	`DoomGaze3`	`I don't understand the whole pairs and ipairs thing. Haven't done any reading on it yet.`
`09:35.31`	`DoomGaze3`	`what's the gist?`
`09:35.35`	`ckknight`	`pairs vs. ipairs`
`09:35.36`	`ckknight`	`:`
`09:35.41`	`ckknight`	`pairs gets all keys/values`
`09:35.52`	`ckknight`	`ipairs gets numerically indexed keys/values`
`09:36.06`	`ckknight`	`ipairs is similar to a standard C for loop`
`09:36.21`	`ckknight`	`for i,v in ipairs(MyTable) do ... end`
`09:36.31`	`ckknight`	`goes from i to table.getn(MyTable)`
`09:36.38`	`ckknight`	`or until it hits a nil`
`09:36.50`	`DoomGaze3`	`So I use ipairs on numerically indexed tables and pairs on everything else?`
`09:38.16`	`DoomGaze3`	`for example, if I have a table indexed like this: MyTable["foo"], MyTable["MoreFoo"], etc`
`09:38.53`	`ckknight`	`you'd use pairs`
`09:38.57`	`ckknight`	`right.`
`09:39.02`	`ckknight`	`you got it`
`09:39.09`	`ckknight`	`iterators are interesting in lua`
`09:39.20`	`ckknight`	`they're stateless`
`09:39.31`	`DoomGaze3`	`eh?`
`09:39.47`	`ckknight`	`pairs(t) turns into next, t, nil`
`09:39.52`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge zespri_work (n=andrews@202.180.98.131)`
`09:39.59`	`ckknight`	`and next(t, nil) is run`
`09:40.09`	`ckknight`	`then next(t, next(t, nil))`
`09:40.11`	`ckknight`	`and so on`
`09:40.16`	`ckknight`	`until it hits nil`
`09:40.21`	`ckknight`	`thus going through every key`
`09:40.36`	`ckknight`	`ipairs does the same thing, only numerically`
`09:42.45`	`ckknight`	`you can write your own iterators, too`
`09:43.00`	`ckknight`	`function inext(t, index)`
`09:43.32`	`ckknight`	`if not index then index = 1 else index = index + 1 end`
`09:44.00`	`DoomGaze3`	`neat`
`09:44.06`	`ckknight`	`if t[index] ~= nil then return index, t[index] end`
`09:44.10`	`ckknight`	`end`
`09:44.12`	`ckknight`	`tada`
`09:44.19`	`ckknight`	`that's basically it`
`09:45.00`	`ckknight`	`you can do for k,v in next, t, nil do ... end`
`09:45.07`	`ckknight`	`same as for k,v in pairs(t) do ... end`
`09:46.03`	`ckknight`	`feel free to review http://www.lua.org/pil`
`09:46.09`	`DoomGaze3`	`heh, I'm probably not going to be up to using that stuffs yet, but it might happen soon`
`09:46.38`	`DoomGaze3`	`oh! Just spotted this: how do I check an item to see if it's, say, blue or a set?`
`09:47.01`	`ckknight`	`dissect the item link`
`09:47.12`	`ckknight`	`my advice is to just check the color of it`
`09:47.40`	`ckknight`	`local _,_,color = string.find(text, "\|cff(%x%x%x%x%x%x)")`
`09:47.40`	`DoomGaze3`	`ouch. What does a link look like in text?`
`09:48.32`	`ckknight`	`that's part of it`
`09:49.26`	`DoomGaze3`	`what's all this (%x%x for?`
`09:49.27`	`ckknight`	`to see the real thing, do DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(string.gsub("[My item link here]", "\124", "\124\124"))`
`09:49.44`	`ckknight`	`DoomGaze3, that gets the color, %x is a hex value`
`09:50.05`	`DoomGaze3`	`wow, I don't get that at all`
`09:50.22`	`DoomGaze3`	`and the \124 thing is confusing too`
`09:50.37`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge zespri_work (n=andrews@202.180.98.131)`
`09:51.23`	`DoomGaze3`	`also, part of the functionality of my mod will be setting minimum bids for set items as well as blues`
`09:51.47`	`ckknight`	`\124 is the pipe.`
`09:53.59`	`DoomGaze3`	`how would I go about checking for a set item?`
`09:54.11`	`DoomGaze3`	`(he asks, afraid of the result)`
`09:57.12`	`ckknight`	`tooltip scanning,afaik`
`09:57.33`	`ckknight`	`it's complicated and I recommend GratuityLib`
`09:58.29`	`DoomGaze3`	`linky?`
`10:01.31`	`DoomGaze3`	`I found it... looking over it now`
`10:08.09`	*** join/#wowi-lounge ag` (n=Andreas@0x535cbbaa.bynxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk)
`10:20.16`	`ckknight`	`horribly complicated, DoomGaze3`
`10:20.32`	`DoomGaze3`	`I'm definitely getting that`
`10:20.55`	`DoomGaze3`	`so, all links are referred to collectively as tooltips?`
`10:23.32`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Mikk (i=bofh@81-233-236-26-no19.tbcn.telia.com)`
`10:29.21`	`ckknight`	`no, DoomGaze3`
`10:29.29`	`ckknight`	`not in the slightest ;-)`
`10:29.53`	`DoomGaze3`	`I'm confused then: how will a tooltip library help me get information about an item?`
`10:31.26`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Andalia (n=xx@p54ADB532.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`10:32.40`	`ckknight`	`you have to do gratuity:SetItem(link)`
`10:32.42`	`ckknight`	`or something.`
`11:08.19`	`DoomGaze3`	`okay, I get it`
`11:15.37`	`DoomGaze3`	`apparently there is no way to check a link to see if it's a set item!`
`11:15.48`	`DoomGaze3`	`~seen MentalPower`
`11:16.12`	`purl`	`mentalpower <i=MentalPo@host-70-45-82-92.onelinkpr.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowi-lounge, 4h 12m 15s ago, saying: 'if it doesn't work I'll just create the rotated textures'.`
`11:16.35`	`DoomGaze3`	`mental would know for sure`
`11:16.45`	`DoomGaze3`	`bed time for me, thanks for all the help CK!`
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`11:27.33`	`DoomGaze3`	`ic again`
`11:27.51`	`DoomGaze3`	`get the entire text of the tool tip and scan it for "set:"`
`11:27.59`	`DoomGaze3`	`er, "Set:"`
`11:35.05`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (i=andrew@203.100.211.173)`
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`12:47.33`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r43h96.res.gatech.edu)`
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`13:08.37`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`13:11.18`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Industrial (n=tom@hellsblade.xs4all.nl)`
`13:22.12`	`Industrial`	`Hah my dad and I were in the store and I bought some bounty candy and put i on my head and said; 'I have a bounty on my head! xD' and my dad pulled an anime 'omigawsh cant believe you just did that' face`
`13:23.03`	`Flyoc`	`hmmm`
`13:23.04`	`Flyoc`	`k.`
`13:32.56`	`krka`	`bounty.... on head.... check`
`13:34.15`	`JoshBorke`	`WOOT!`
`13:34.19`	`JoshBorke`	`my DPS graph works!`
`13:34.24`	`krka`	`cool!`
`13:37.03`	`JoshBorke`	`http://joshborke.is-a-geek.com:90/gallery/Public/healthmon`
`13:37.25`	`JoshBorke`	`sizing of the DPS is off though :-/`
`13:39.03`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ven (n=ven@dynadsl-080-228-79-149.ewetel.net)`
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`13:59.49`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Mery (i=metelman@p54AEF011.dip.t-dialin.net)`
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`14:38.06`	`JoshBorke`	`ok, so i have a little problem with my HealthMon`
`14:38.17`	`JoshBorke`	`and i really have no clue how to fix it`
`14:38.23`	`JoshBorke`	`anyone wanna help? :-)`
`14:38.30`	`JoshBorke`	`mostly a math problem i think`
`14:43.32`	`zenzelezz`	`why not just state the problem in here so anyone who reads it might offer insight?`
`14:45.21`	`JoshBorke`	`alright, alright. i'm not exactly sure how to state the problem though. to display a graph i'm using SetPoint to set the height of textures to that of the next texture. to make it smooth i've been averaging the current height and the next height`
`14:45.39`	`JoshBorke`	`my problem is that as the textures move along it all flattens out because i'm averaging successively smaller values`
`14:45.56`	`JoshBorke`	`so how can i make it smooth and not flatten out?`
`14:50.00`	*** join/#wowi-lounge zinor` (n=mirc@dslb-088-064-179-018.pools.arcor-ip.net)
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`14:54.16`	`Hexarobee`	`dont average it`
`14:54.33`	`Hexarobee`	`just increase the rate it draws a new texture to make it smoother`
`14:54.48`	`Hexarobee`	`each texture should be the % height of health`
`14:54.54`	`Hexarobee`	`if im understanding u correctly`
`14:55.26`	`Hexarobee`	`so if im 100% health, the bar should be 100% full, the next time it checks if im at 75%, the bar should be at 75%`
`14:55.40`	`Hexarobee`	`is checking that intense?`
`14:55.46`	`Hexarobee`	`that it needs to be done less often?`
`14:57.49`	`JoshBorke`	`hm`
`14:59.24`	`JoshBorke`	`i'll give it a try`
`15:05.09`	`JoshBorke`	`Hexarobee: the problem is health doesn't change smoothly, so no matter what my update interval, it will always be a step graph`
`15:06.48`	`Thrae`	`Cairenn: G'morning.`
`15:07.03`	`Cairenn`	`hi Thrae`
`15:10.06`	`Cairenn`	`lol Thrae\|ReallyReal`
`15:16.53`	`Mery`	`JoshBorke: You want something like this on the right? http://enigma.nrgservers.net/test.jpg`
`15:19.21`	`JoshBorke`	`think so. http://joshborke.is-a-geek.com:90/gallery/Public/healthmon is what i have now, only the first hump (on the right, in black) is even close to what it should be, everything else has been lowered`
`15:23.17`	`JoshBorke`	`and now i've fubared it :-(`
`15:24.21`	`JoshBorke`	`ah, that's why it looked different, i was using an un-metered OnUpdate before`
`15:24.26`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Mery2 (i=metelman@p54AEE3A0.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`15:24.40`	`Kirkburn`	`I love how owls replaced rats as vermin in Futurama :)`
`15:24.48`	`Mery2`	`:D`
`15:24.56`	`Mery2`	`can't wait for 2008`
`15:25.01`	`Kirkburn`	`:D`
`15:36.32`	`Hexarobee`	`hehe`
`15:38.35`	`Hexarobee`	`step graph is more accurate than a psuedo-smooth line`
`15:39.00`	`Hexarobee`	`once someone gets a heal, u want to see the sharp spike back to full health`
`15:39.03`	`Hexarobee`	`not a gradual heal up`
`15:39.37`	`Hexarobee`	`now for my problem ;)`
`15:39.37`	`Hexarobee`	`http://wowi.pastey.net/50`
`15:40.08`	`Hexarobee`	`my code keeps taking the else branch and i cant figure out why`
`15:40.26`	`Hexarobee`	`in the debugging messages im sending, on both 2 and 3, the to and from are equal`
`15:41.30`	`Hexarobee`	`but the if keeps saying they arent`
`15:41.58`	`Mery2`	`you xan what 4 values?`
`15:42.01`	`Mery2`	`send*`
`15:42.43`	`Hexarobee`	`me?`
`15:42.51`	`Mery2`	`yeah which 4 value do you send?`
`15:43.24`	`Hexarobee`	`atm im debugging sending fromCol=2, fromRow=8, toCol=3, toRow=4`
`15:43.54`	`Mery2`	`well 8-2 ~= 4`
`15:43.57`	`JoshBorke`	`so in that case you should take the else, right?`
`15:44.00`	`Hexarobee`	`err toRow=6`
`15:44.27`	`Hexarobee`	`its print`
`15:44.33`	`Hexarobee`	`1 from=28 to=36`
`15:44.39`	`Hexarobee`	`2 from=36 to=36`
`15:44.44`	`Hexarobee`	`3 from=36 to=36`
`15:45.34`	`zenzelezz`	`"dps order?" "we first kill Golemagg, and then we've won"`
`15:47.47`	`JoshBorke`	`Hexarobee: it works for me`
`15:48.10`	`Hexarobee`	`u want me to send u my whole addon and see if the move works for u? =)`
`15:48.23`	`JoshBorke`	`lol, pastebin the entire function and what you send to the function?`
`15:48.29`	`Hexarobee`	`i cant imagine what else in my addon is breaking it`
`15:48.48`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (i=PROFI@user-0cev737.cable.mindspring.com)`
`15:49.46`	`Hexarobee`	`http://wowi.pastey.net/52`
`15:52.52`	`JoshBorke`	`Hexarobee: what's the type in colsNum?`
`15:52.57`	`JoshBorke`	`i think you have type mismatch`
`15:53.58`	`JoshBorke`	`so, i'll paste what i used to ascertain that`
`15:54.41`	`Hexarobee`	`local colsNum = { a=1, b=2, c=3, d=4, e=5, f=6, g=7, h=8 };`
`15:54.58`	`JoshBorke`	`http://wow.pastecode.com/2254`
`15:55.46`	`Hexarobee`	`ahh ok`
`15:55.57`	`JoshBorke`	`yea, string.find returns a string, not a number`
`15:56.04`	`Hexarobee`	`i thought Lua was ok with "1" == 1`
`15:56.32`	`JoshBorke`	`no, because '1' is a reference to the 1 in memory, whereas 1 is actually 1`
`15:56.37`	`JoshBorke`	`lua is ok with '1'+1`
`15:56.55`	`JoshBorke`	`arithmetic vs comparison :-)`
`15:57.48`	`Hexarobee`	`ok`
`15:57.57`	`Hexarobee`	`so i can +0 to turn them to nums`
`15:58.24`	`JoshBorke`	`possibly? why not just tonumber() them?`
`15:59.08`	`JoshBorke`	`it's doing teh same thing as tonumber(string) + 0`
`15:59.47`	`Hexarobee`	`just tonumber()?`
`16:00.11`	`Hexarobee`	`even changes color in my syntax highlighting ;)`
`16:00.12`	`Hexarobee`	`thx`
`16:00.39`	`Hexarobee`	`that fixed it`
`16:00.46`	`JoshBorke`	`np`
`16:05.04`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower\|ZZzz (i=MentalPo@host-70-45-82-92.onelinkpr.net)`
`16:05.15`	`Hexarobee`	`one piece validating ;)`
`16:05.41`	`JoshBorke`	`that account for all moves of a knight?`
`16:06.04`	`Hexarobee`	`yep`
`16:06.08`	`Hexarobee`	`not the one i pasted`
`16:06.15`	`JoshBorke`	`ah, ok :-)`
`16:06.17`	`Hexarobee`	`that was 1 possibility, but theres only like 4`
`16:06.22`	`Hexarobee`	`if ( (toRow==fromRow-2 or toRow==fromRow+2) and (toCol==fromCol+1 or toCol==fromCol-1) ) or`
`16:06.22`	`Hexarobee`	`<PROTECTED>`
`16:06.22`	`JoshBorke`	`yea`
`16:07.16`	`JoshBorke`	`i'd say knight would be the easiest`
`16:07.22`	`JoshBorke`	`since they can jump :-D`
`16:07.39`	`Hexarobee`	`hehe ya`
`16:09.01`	`JoshBorke`	`glad you're writing this :-)`
`16:13.50`	`Hexarobee`	`hehe`
`16:14.07`	`Hexarobee`	`you mean better me than you? or you actually want to play chess in wow? ;)`
`16:14.54`	`JoshBorke`	`i wanted to play chess in wow, so i was gonna write the addon, then decided it would be too hard :-D`
`16:19.07`	`Hexarobee`	`hehe`
`16:25.15`	`Cairenn`	`Hexarobee: would you prefer that I move wowChess to the Beta section, since that's what it is yet?`
`16:27.48`	`Hexarobee`	`yes`
`16:28.22`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Andalia_ (n=xx@p54ADBD70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`16:28.30`	`Hexarobee`	`is that beta interfaces?`
`16:28.45`	`Cairenn`	`aye`
`16:29.01`	`Hexarobee`	`i was thinking that sounded like addon collections`
`16:29.10`	`Cairenn`	`no, it's anything that is in beta`
`16:29.15`	`Hexarobee`	`the word interfaces threw me ;)`
`16:29.18`	`Cairenn`	`it's moved`
`16:29.25`	`Hexarobee`	`hehe ya now that i think about it, youd never beta a collection of addons`
`16:29.34`	`JoshBorke`	`hehe, all of my addons are still in beta`
`16:29.48`	`Cairenn`	`sure you would ... just look at "mazzle ui" ... /roll eyes`
`16:29.54`	`JoshBorke`	`lol`
`16:30.05`	`JoshBorke`	`you should lock the thread Cairenn and say it's because there were too many responses`
`16:30.11`	`JoshBorke`	`you know, they 'broke' it`
`16:30.27`	`Cairenn`	`god, tempt me, but no, I'll not disparage Dolby's ability that way`
`16:30.48`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Flyoc_ (n=flyin_do@APlessis-Bouchard-153-1-81-46.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`16:31.44`	`Cairenn`	`lord how I want that damn thing released, just so I can lock that stupid thread`
`16:31.51`	`Cairenn`	`and be done with it`
`16:32.27`	`Cairenn`	`I've had more problems with that one thread than the entire rest of the site`
`16:32.48`	`Mery2`	`i want(ed) a really good texas hold'em poker - still didn't had the chance to test the AddOn thats out now though`
`16:34.21`	`Cairenn`	`Hexarobee: is there any way to know who else has the mod installed?`
`16:34.30`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com)`
`16:34.55`	`JoshBorke`	`morning Cide`
`16:35.00`	`Cide`	`morning`
`16:35.06`	`Cairenn`	`'allo Cide`
`16:35.14`	`JoshBorke`	`Cide: you were working on creating a pie chart at one point, what was it for?`
`16:35.47`	`Cide`	`ct_raidtracker2, for displaying raid composition`
`16:35.49`	`Hexarobee`	`ooo thats a great idea cair`
`16:35.51`	`Cide`	`hi Cairenn`
`16:35.54`	`JoshBorke`	`Cide: ah, cool`
`16:36.07`	`Hexarobee`	`on load join the default wowchess channel? thats the way to do that right?`
`16:36.41`	`JoshBorke`	`Hexarobee: don't get over your head ;-)`
`16:36.50`	`Cairenn`	`Hexarobee: credit goes to a guildmate of mine, he's a real chess fan, told him about your mod, he's got it installed now`
`16:37.19`	`Hexarobee`	`hope he didnt notice the king and queen are in the wrong spots ;)`
`16:37.24`	`JoshBorke`	`lol`
`16:37.26`	`Cairenn`	`but was wondering how to find out who else may have it`
`16:37.37`	`Hexarobee`	`ya atm you just have to know`
`16:37.45`	`Hexarobee`	`but thats an excellent idea`
`16:38.00`	`JoshBorke`	`what sort of communication are you doing?`
`16:38.04`	`Hexarobee`	`tells`
`16:38.10`	`JoshBorke`	`what's the message format?`
`16:38.23`	`Hexarobee`	`prefix of "cm " for all chess moves`
`16:38.39`	`Hexarobee`	`then say a pawn from a2 to a3, would be Pa2-a3`
`16:38.47`	`JoshBorke`	`ok, cool`
`16:38.51`	`Hexarobee`	`so /tell Smitty cm Pa2-a3`
`16:38.52`	`JoshBorke`	`do you have to pass the piece?`
`16:39.04`	`Hexarobee`	`i think atm im ignoring that`
`16:39.13`	`Hexarobee`	`but when validation is done itll make sure the piece is right too`
`16:39.21`	`JoshBorke`	`i'm just wondering, if someone who doesn't have the mod installed they could play with someone who does`
`16:39.26`	`JoshBorke`	`as long as they sent the right messages`
`16:39.30`	`Hexarobee`	`o yes`
`16:39.45`	`Hexarobee`	`it does x instead of - if a piece of captured`
`16:39.53`	`Hexarobee`	`standard algebraic chess notation`
`16:40.04`	`JoshBorke`	`that way they could set up a real board and play`
`16:40.16`	`Hexarobee`	`actually i think now they use Pa3`
`16:40.40`	`Hexarobee`	`they use piece and destination, and only originating space if its an ambigious move`
`16:40.51`	`Hexarobee`	`crazy chess players`
`16:41.12`	`Hexarobee`	`but yes, the format isnt explained but it makes sense`
`16:41.53`	`Hexarobee`	`pawns and knights validating ;)`
`16:42.19`	`JoshBorke`	`en passat or whatever?`
`16:42.29`	`Hexarobee`	`thats not supported atm, neither is castling`
`16:42.41`	`Hexarobee`	`im not sure how im gunna impliment en passant`
`16:42.49`	`Hexarobee`	`no nm`
`16:42.52`	`Hexarobee`	`i can do that`
`16:42.58`	`Hexarobee`	`thats not that bad`
`16:43.08`	`Hexarobee`	`but who uses ep`
`16:43.37`	`JoshBorke`	`lol`
`16:44.16`	`Hexarobee`	`argh that sucks tho`
`16:44.22`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Anyone know of a way to relocate where the tooltip appears?`
`16:44.37`	`Hexarobee`	`cuz thats the only move where my pre-check of destination not being the same teams color, wont work`
`16:44.55`	`Hexarobee`	`theres a few addons that do that scythe, TinyTip i think?`
`16:45.29`	`JoshBorke`	`ScytheBlade1: TinyTip, TipBuddy both do it`
`16:45.42`	`ScytheBlade1`	`I like the sound of TinyTip`
`16:45.46`	`JoshBorke`	`Hexarobee: can you play more than one game at a time?`
`16:45.57`	`ScytheBlade1`	`I'm all for huge resolutions and small UIs`
`16:45.59`	`Thrae`	`I second TinyTip. whistle innocently`
`16:46.04`	`Hexarobee`	`not yet`
`16:46.05`	`JoshBorke`	`lol Thrae`
`16:46.12`	`Hexarobee`	`heh`
`16:46.29`	`JoshBorke`	`Hexarobee: any plans? perhaps you could make each board minimizable to save screen space.`
`16:46.36`	`ScytheBlade1`	`"Uploaded By" "Thrae"`
`16:46.39`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Huh. Wonder why ;)`
`16:47.08`	`Hexarobee`	`ya i was thinking itd be cool to be able to have multiple games going, but in reality thats gunna be pretty rare so its low on the to do list`
`16:47.16`	`Hexarobee`	`1) move validation`
`16:47.28`	`Hexarobee`	`then prolly some`
`16:47.32`	`Hexarobee`	`UI fixing`
`16:47.53`	`Hexarobee`	`a nice title bar, a close button, something telling you if its yer turn or not`
`16:48.14`	`Hexarobee`	`oooo i could put the lil portrait frame for you and your opponent`
`16:48.22`	`Hexarobee`	`on the opposite sides of the board`
`16:49.17`	`Hexarobee`	`i was also thinking wow-themed chess pieces, like a big orc king and queen, worg rider knights, troll priest bishops, grunt pawns`
`16:49.28`	`JoshBorke`	`lol`
`16:49.29`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Poll: how much RAM do you dedicate to addons?`
`16:49.38`	`Hexarobee`	`128mb`
`16:49.57`	`JoshBorke`	`0mb`
`16:50.04`	`ScytheBlade1`	`huh`
`16:50.06`	`Cairenn`	`0`
`16:50.07`	`Thrae`	`Wow, my UI stays about under 49MB. 128MB?!`
`16:50.12`	`ScytheBlade1`	`TinyTip doesn't do what I want it to.`
`16:50.20`	`Cairenn`	`that way I don't have to worry about it`
`16:50.23`	`JoshBorke`	`same`
`16:50.30`	`Hexarobee`	`i just have it set to 128`
`16:50.31`	`JoshBorke`	`i've got way too much memory to worry about limiting my UI`
`16:50.38`	`Hexarobee`	`ya`
`16:50.39`	`Thrae`	`What do you want to do, ScytheBlade1?`
`16:50.42`	`Hexarobee`	`ive got a gig of ram`
`16:50.44`	`Hexarobee`	`im good`
`16:50.47`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge hyperChipmunk (n=staharaj@d14-69-214-77.try.wideopenwest.com)`
`16:50.55`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Thrae, move the tooltip when I mouse over a button on my screen (ie, enchanting)`
`16:51.12`	`JoshBorke`	`Hexarobee: psh :-P 3GB :-P`
`16:51.14`	`ScytheBlade1`	`I mean, I'll keep using it, I like it already ;)`
`16:51.22`	`ScytheBlade1`	`But it's so close to doing what I want it to, it hurts`
`16:51.26`	`Thrae`	`ScytheBlade1: Check "Anchor Custom Tooltips" and change the Frame Anchor`
`16:51.45`	`Thrae`	`If your mod uses GameTooltip_SetDefaultAnchor then that should work.`
`16:52.19`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Thrae, love for you, this is hot`
`16:52.48`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Flyoc_ (n=flyin_do@APlessis-Bouchard-153-1-81-46.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`16:53.27`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Hmm`
`16:53.38`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Thrae, I set the frame offset to -100, and it works, but not for my buttons`
`16:54.59`	`Thrae`	`Alright, people have been asking for an option to anchor tooltips when GameTooltip_SetDefaultAnchor has not been set, lemme implement it.`
`16:55.14`	`ScytheBlade1`	`hehe`
`16:55.15`	`ScytheBlade1`	`w00t :)`
`16:55.19`	`Thrae`	`s/set/called/`
`16:57.16`	`Hexarobee`	`thats service`
`16:57.20`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Seriously`
`16:57.22`	`ScytheBlade1`	`<3`
`17:00.58`	`Hexarobee`	`so i thought of a good band name for a bunch of programming geeks`
`17:01.01`	`Hexarobee`	`couting crows`
`17:03.17`	`krka`	`i get it!`
`17:03.19`	`JoshBorke`	`lol`
`17:04.40`	`Cairenn`	`rofl`
`17:05.12`	`Hexarobee`	`=)`
`17:08.40`	`Kirkburn`	`If you set the UI memory to 0, that means unlimited? I hadn't realised - useful :)`
`17:11.37`	`Hexarobee`	`itd be alot easier to just disable the double-jump opening pawn move`
`17:13.01`	`JoshBorke`	`Hexarobee: why not just flag the 2 locations left and right of where the pawn lands as being eligible`
`17:13.29`	`Hexarobee`	`ill prolly have to go in and add that to do it ya`
`17:13.37`	`Hexarobee`	`because right now im not doing any sort of flagging`
`17:13.41`	`Hexarobee`	`on the board`
`17:13.50`	`JoshBorke`	`you could attach the flag to the piece also`
`17:13.51`	`Hexarobee`	`each move build a new state of the board`
`17:13.56`	`Hexarobee`	`builds`
`17:14.10`	`Hexarobee`	`and saves that state in a history`
`17:14.46`	`Hexarobee`	`maybe i can make it smart enough to look back into the history`
`17:15.07`	`Hexarobee`	`and check if the piece being captured is a pawn, and it moved to that location from the location 2 spaces back on the last move`
`17:15.13`	`Hexarobee`	`yikes thats a logical nightmare ;)(`
`17:15.29`	`JoshBorke`	`yea, i like flags better :-P`
`17:15.44`	`Hexarobee`	`hehe ya but i have to change the entire structure to add flagging`
`17:16.02`	`Hexarobee`	`cuz i have to be able to undo it too`
`17:16.03`	`JoshBorke`	`well that would stink :-D`
`17:16.16`	`Mery`	`ok so blizzard uses "empty" poi's on their maps...`
`17:16.34`	`MentalPower\|ZZzz`	`empty poi's?`
`17:16.41`	`Hexarobee`	`points of interest?`
`17:16.42`	`Mery`	`no graphic`
`17:16.52`	`MentalPower`	`explain`
`17:17.12`	`Mery`	`uhm lets say like hte little houses and towers on the continent and world map`
`17:17.15`	`Hexarobee`	`but en passant is such a rare move, ill come back to it later`
`17:17.52`	`MentalPower`	`Hexarobee: castling is much more frequently used`
`17:17.52`	`Mery`	`in each zone there are poi's for some locations (to make the text on the top change)`
`17:17.56`	`Thrae`	`ScytheBlade1: What button are you trying to anchor?`
`17:18.15`	`Hexarobee`	`ya, right now it doesnt even end the game on a king capture ;)`
`17:18.16`	`Hexarobee`	`lots to do`
`17:19.11`	`MentalPower`	`yep`
`17:19.12`	`Mikk`	`.... meh. wowi needs a preview button for interface uploads / page edits.`
`17:19.21`	`Hexarobee`	`has someone written a texas holdem game? thatd be easier ;)`
`17:19.32`	`MentalPower`	`considering that you NEED to resolve the check before making any other moves`
`17:20.17`	`Mery`	`so like i changed hte "show the information on the top of the map for poi's" to a "show in a tooltip" and well now i get tooltips for some places of the map that have no "visible" poi icon`
`17:21.20`	`Hexarobee`	`cool`
`17:21.54`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Qzot (n=nickell@sandbox.xerox.com)`
`17:25.10`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge esp\|Syn (n=ben@comsecgb.plus.com)`
`17:26.54`	`Mery`	`that's how i want it to be: http://enigma.nrgservers.net/visible_icon.jpg`
`17:27.36`	`Mery`	`and that's what i then get on zone maps: http://enigma.nrgservers.net/invisible_icon.jpg - bigger regions still show up at top text, but those poi's oviously do not`
`17:31.24`	`wereHamster`	`didn't slouken add a flag to TargetUnit() that changes the target only if the target name matches exactly?`
`17:31.48`	`wereHamster`	`srty .. it's TargetByName() -.-`
`17:32.56`	`wereHamster`	`http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=422892&p=1&tmp=1#post422892 <= someone could tell him to use that function and check UnitExists("target") after it..`
`17:44.27`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Andalia (n=xx@p54ADBD70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`17:47.23`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (i=Dark--Sk@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl)`
`17:48.05`	`Kirkburn`	`All this time I thought 'burn' meant hill in scottish .. oops :) It means stream`
`17:48.25`	`Kirkburn`	`(so I'm a church by a stream. In Yorkshire)`
`17:48.59`	`JoshBorke`	`better than a church on fire i'd say`
`17:49.20`	`Kirkburn`	`=)`
`17:49.24`	`Kirkburn`	`Church Pyromaniac!`
`17:51.17`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge DoomGaze3 (i=DoomGaze@74.128.147.210)`
`17:52.43`	`Cairenn`	`Kirkburn: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5622`
`17:55.15`	`cladhaire`	`anyone here from the uk?`
`17:57.39`	`Kirkburn`	`yep`
`17:57.49`	`Kirkburn`	`Cairenn, I've replied, thanks :)`
`17:57.54`	`cladhaire`	`Kirkburn: Whats a first or 2.1 degree referring to?`
`17:58.20`	`Kirkburn`	`A "first" is the best sort of University diploma you can get (above 70%)`
`17:58.36`	`Kirkburn`	`A 2.1 (we call it a "two-one") is 60-70%`
`17:58.45`	`Kirkburn`	`A 2.2 (two-two) is 50-60`
`17:58.51`	`Kirkburn`	`A third is 40-50`
`17:59.05`	`cladhaire`	`I was cum laude for undergrad, and 3.89 for my MSc (out of 4.0).. so i meet the requirements?`
`17:59.06`	`Kirkburn`	`And, er, the rest is "you failure!"`
`17:59.38`	`Kirkburn`	`that sounds like a first to me`
`17:59.47`	`Kirkburn`	`But I don't know how it converts`
`18:00.07`	`cladhaire`	`ok`
`18:00.07`	`cladhaire`	`thanks.`
`18:00.14`	`Kirkburn`	`:)`
`18:00.18`	`cladhaire`	`I"m heading up to Canterbury at the beginning of September`
`18:00.26`	`cladhaire`	`and I need to be a bit more familiar with the uk educatino system =)`
`18:00.31`	`Kirkburn`	`(My girlfriend just got a 2.1 =)`
`18:00.58`	`cladhaire`	`hehe`
`18:01.09`	`Kirkburn`	`The pre-university system is about to change big-time, in two years I think`
`18:01.21`	`Kirkburn`	`I don't think it would affect you though`
`18:01.23`	`cladhaire`	`i just need to be familiar with the post-graduate system`
`18:01.31`	`Kirkburn`	`Yeah, that never changes :P`
`18:01.44`	`Kirkburn`	`PhD?`
`18:02.02`	`cladhaire`	`aye`
`18:02.09`	`Kirkburn`	`What in?`
`18:02.11`	`cladhaire`	`Kent is looking like its at the top of my list.`
`18:02.13`	`cladhaire`	`Computer Science`
`18:02.23`	`cladhaire`	`research specifically in Comp Science Education Research`
`18:02.27`	`Kirkburn`	`cool`
`18:02.52`	`Kirkburn`	`I'm at Bristol, Legorol is at Cambridge`
`18:03.00`	`cladhaire`	`i knoew Leg was at Cambridge`
`18:03.16`	`cladhaire`	`i my have to look you guys up the weekend up i'm there.`
`18:03.17`	`Kirkburn`	`The ip address of phys.cam.ac gives it away ;)`
`18:03.23`	`cladhaire`	`what are you studying right now?`
`18:03.28`	`Kirkburn`	`Civil Engineering`
`18:03.56`	`cladhaire`	`very cool`
`18:04.00`	`Kirkburn`	`(he was rather confused when I told him he was in the physics dept. at cambridge without knowing anything else =)`
`18:04.10`	`cladhaire`	`=`
`18:04.10`	`cladhaire`	`)`
`18:04.13`	`cladhaire`	`hehe`
`18:04.50`	`Kirkburn`	`Well, I kind of wish I'd done computer science now (seeing as that's what I do most of the time), but there's always the opportunity to do that afterwards`
`18:05.25`	`cladhaire`	`definitely`
`18:05.37`	`cladhaire`	`any other reccomendations of school to look at?`
`18:05.46`	`cladhaire`	`riught now Kent and Warwick are the only ones that have a research group that i've found`
`18:06.14`	`cladhaire`	`also, what are your thoughts on Kent and Warwick? =)`
`18:08.01`	`cladhaire`	`if you don't mind me bothering you :P`
`18:08.18`	`JoshBorke`	`Kirkburn: you ever figure out why ClearFont only works for me when i have it disablee?`
`18:08.25`	`JoshBorke`	`s/disablee/disabled/`
`18:09.14`	`krka`	`Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm is pretty good`
`18:09.27`	`krka`	`very good computer science departement`
`18:10.58`	`cladhaire`	`krka: Thanks.. i'll look at it.`
`18:11.29`	`Kirkburn`	`JoshBorke, I didn't know you ahd that problem`
`18:12.05`	`Kirkburn`	`cladhaire, I was called away to the fone, sorry :)`
`18:12.16`	`cladhaire`	`no problem =)`
`18:12.18`	`Kirkburn`	`Warwick is a very nice Uni - my second choice`
`18:12.42`	`cladhaire`	`they're research group seems far behind Kent.. which concerns me.. but I love everything I've read about it.`
`18:12.51`	`JoshBorke`	`Kirkburn: ClearFont only works for me when I have it disabled :-D`
`18:12.52`	`cladhaire`	`especially in recent research.. Kent ahas been very active.`
`18:13.01`	`Kirkburn`	`I don't know how they all compare for Comp Sci, natch .... but Southhampton is also good`
`18:13.22`	`DoomGaze3`	`~seen MentalPower`
`18:13.41`	`purl`	`mentalpower <i=MentalPo@host-70-45-82-92.onelinkpr.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowi-lounge, 54m 9s ago, saying: 'considering that you NEED to resolve the check before making any other moves'.`
`18:13.41`	`krka`	`most people at KTH speak english well enough when required too`
`18:13.41`	`Kirkburn`	`I think I've heard Kent is good, but I don't know it well`
`18:13.44`	`Kirkburn`	`JoshBorke ... er`
`18:13.51`	`cladhaire`	`hehe`
`18:13.54`	`cladhaire`	`ask around if you get a chance =)`
`18:14.14`	`Kirkburn`	`JoshBorke, use Windows? Tried reinstalling it? Do you get the italic styles?`
`18:14.30`	`Kirkburn`	`Shall do - one of my housemates just finished a comp sci course`
`18:14.32`	`JoshBorke`	`Kirkburn: i'll try reinstalling again.`
`18:14.47`	`Kirkburn`	`What happens when it's enabled then?`
`18:15.06`	`Kirkburn`	`(careful about v11100-3, since it doesn't have the 'good' fonts :)`
`18:15.50`	`JoshBorke`	`i need to delete the Fonts folder in the WoW folder, right?`
`18:16.38`	`Kirkburn`	`Not really`
`18:16.50`	`Kirkburn`	`Try it without it though, and see what happens`
`18:17.20`	`Kirkburn`	`That folder does the basic overriding, the other stuff does the fancy improvement stuff`
`18:22.57`	`JoshBorke`	`i think it may or may not work? kinda looks like it works though. i'm gonna go with it works :-)`
`18:23.15`	`JoshBorke`	`i've used it so long i've forgotten what it looks like without`
`18:24.22`	`Kirkburn`	`=)`
`18:29.40`	`Mery`	`hmm actually just q'ing for AB while coding my addon is pretty good for my rep...`
`18:33.20`	`Kirkburn`	`I hate domain sitters`
`18:44.55`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge snurre (n=snurre@AVelizy-153-1-24-245.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`18:45.42`	`Hexarobee`	`man`
`18:45.47`	`Hexarobee`	`its some buttass ugly code`
`18:45.52`	`Hexarobee`	`but rook move validation works ;)`
`18:47.13`	`Mery`	`hmm i'd imagine bishop code looks uglier...`
`18:47.24`	`krka`	`chess code is easy to get pretty :)`
`18:47.38`	`krka`	`object orientation is actually perfect for that`
`18:48.32`	`Hexarobee`	`ya making it oo would have prolly made life easier :)`
`18:53.02`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r43h96.res.gatech.edu)`
`18:56.06`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tarog (n=rat@ip68-230-57-60.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`19:09.22`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`19:25.02`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge A\|Pharmore (i=where@71-12-134-52.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com)`
`19:25.50`	`A\|Pharmore`	`neurocide!!`
`19:25.55`	`A\|Pharmore`	`were art though!`
`19:26.21`	`A\|Pharmore`	`where has #wow-dev moved to?`
`19:28.16`	`Thrae`	`I've been here for a good while and only know of ##ace (now #wowace) and this channel. As well as the cosmos dev channel.`
`19:28.32`	`A\|Pharmore`	`#mmorpg-dev =D`
`19:28.47`	`Thrae`	`That's not a WoW channel...`
`19:29.11`	`A\|Pharmore`	`sure it isn't`
`19:29.14`	`A\|Pharmore`	`it's a wow emu channel`
`19:29.17`	`A\|Pharmore`	`i know that much`
`19:29.38`	`Hexarobee`	`like the flightless bird?`
`19:30.13`	`Kirkburn`	`I say it's discrimination against ostriches`
`19:30.23`	`Kirkburn`	`Where's a wow ostrich channel, eh?`
`19:31.36`	`Thrae`	`Kirkburn: You won't come to my #wow-ostrich channel =/`
`19:32.58`	`Kirkburn`	`Have too!`
`19:36.29`	`Shadowed`	`Hexarobee: how hard was it to get the validition for rooks to work?`
`19:39.22`	`Hexarobee`	`http://wowi.pastey.net/54`
`19:39.36`	`Shadowed`	`ouch`
`19:39.53`	`Shadowed`	`that must have been fun to do`
`19:40.12`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=legorol@cpc3-cmbg6-0-0-cust710.cmbg.cable.ntl.com)`
`19:40.19`	`Hexarobee`	`hehe not as much fun as the next one`
`19:40.44`	`Hexarobee`	`http://wowi.pastey.net/55`
`19:40.44`	`Shadowed`	`pawns will be annoying :p`
`19:41.03`	`A\|Pharmore`	`woa`
`19:41.05`	`Hexarobee`	`nah pawns werent so bad, except en passant`
`19:41.19`	`A\|Pharmore`	`http://wowi.pastey.net/54 if i didn't know better, i'd assume that was bot coding!`
`19:41.34`	`A\|Pharmore`	`and the only bots I know of working and undetectable in wow are Macroh Masheen and WoWNitro`
`19:41.45`	`A\|Pharmore`	`Is WoWI a new botnet system?`
`19:41.59`	`Cairenn`	`and we don't discuss bots or emu servers in this channel, period end of discussion`
`19:42.10`	`Cairenn`	`http://www.wowinterface.com/index.php?`
`19:42.10`	`Shadowed`	`read the function name...`
`19:42.23`	`Hexarobee`	`its a chess piece move validation function ;)`
`19:42.54`	`Legorol`	`Good Evening`
`19:42.58`	`Cairenn`	`hello Legorol`
`19:43.02`	`Hexarobee`	`got all the pieces validating except for bishop and queen`
`19:43.23`	`Shadowed`	`it's been a while since i've played chess, but isn't queen able to move anywhere anyway?`
`19:43.24`	`Hexarobee`	`wb =)`
`19:43.31`	`Hexarobee`	`no anywhere`
`19:43.33`	`Hexarobee`	`not`
`19:43.42`	`DoomGaze3`	`diagonally, horizontally, or vertically`
`19:43.44`	`Hexarobee`	`only in straight lines and diagonals, and not over other pieces`
`19:44.10`	`Hexarobee`	`shes the most powerful, but is still limited`
`19:44.11`	`Rallion`	`a bishop move is good if abs(x1-x2) == abs(y1-y2)`
`19:44.20`	`Hexarobee`	`she cant just pick up and squash the king from the sky ;)`
`19:44.47`	`Shadowed`	`apparently the people who created the game wern't thinking`
`19:44.49`	`Shadowed`	`would have made it shorter`
`19:44.53`	`Hexarobee`	`totally`
`19:44.53`	`Cairenn`	`lol`
`19:45.11`	`Hexarobee`	`the russian killer queen opening: checkmate`
`19:45.15`	`Legorol`	`5521 mail in the inbox`
`19:45.24`	`Shadowed`	`is that a week or two weeks?`
`19:45.43`	`krka`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:45.52`	`krka`	`get a spam filter`
`19:45.57`	`Legorol`	`i'm extremely tempted to just delete all`
`19:45.58`	`Cairenn`	`A\|Pharmore: this is a legitimate channel for a legitimate site, and if you wish to stay in the channel I ask that you respect it. If you want bots and emu servers and other crap like that, go elsewhere, they aren't welcome here.`
`19:46.27`	`Shadowed`	`If anyone asks you can just say that the junk filter got it`
`19:46.28`	`Legorol`	`krka: this is a yahoo mail account. by the looks of it their spam filter is horrible`
`19:46.46`	`krka`	`ouch`
`19:46.54`	`krka`	`gmail ftw`
`19:47.09`	`Legorol`	`yeah, if only they allowed you to get names with @gmail.com in the UK`
`19:47.11`	`krka`	`it's freaking me out how google manage to succeed at everything`
`19:47.11`	`Rallion`	`gmail rulez.`
`19:47.20`	`Legorol`	`but they decided that if you are from UK, it has to be googlemail.com`
`19:47.21`	`krka`	`it's like they're me... in company form`
`19:47.21`	`Hexarobee`	`no wait im right`
`19:47.28`	`Shadowed`	`some companies just understand what people want`
`19:47.31`	`Hexarobee`	`bishop move is more than abs(x1-x2) == abs(y1-y2)`
`19:47.32`	`Legorol`	`lol krka`
`19:47.36`	`Shadowed`	`or have really good research!`
`19:47.40`	`Hexarobee`	`because you have to account for other pieces in the way`
`19:47.42`	`Legorol`	`i do like the new fancy interface yahoo has`
`19:47.48`	`Legorol`	`if google developed something similar, it'd be nice`
`19:47.58`	`krka`	`but you get the feeling that google does stuff that themselves thinks is neat/cool`
`19:48.01`	`Rallion`	`well, yes, it is, but that's the basic starting point.`
`19:48.02`	`Legorol`	`but my biggest gripe still is that i can't get legorol@gmail.com :(`
`19:48.09`	`krka`	`taken?`
`19:48.24`	`Legorol`	`nope, as i explained, if you are in the UK, you can only get something@googlemail.com`
`19:48.25`	`krka`	`l3g0r0l then`
`19:48.28`	`krka`	`ah`
`19:48.41`	`krka`	`so don't say you're from UK`
`19:48.43`	`Legorol`	`it's to do with a trademark dispute over the GMail name in the UK`
`19:48.51`	`Legorol`	`they do IP-based filtering`
`19:48.54`	`Hexarobee`	`say your from canada`
`19:48.56`	`krka`	`ouch`
`19:49.00`	`Legorol`	`and the invite also has to be from someone not in the UK`
`19:49.00`	`krka`	`what about tunneling?`
`19:49.05`	`Thrae`	`Legorol: I could send you a GMail invite`
`19:49.07`	`krka`	`i can send an invite`
`19:49.15`	`Legorol`	`thanks guys`
`19:49.15`	`Rallion`	`I have hundreds.`
`19:49.17`	`Cairenn`	`I can send an invite`
`19:49.23`	`Hexarobee`	`i can, but i will not`
`19:49.23`	`krka`	`tunneling might be annoying in the long run`
`19:49.25`	`Legorol`	`i'll setup a tunnel`
`19:49.32`	`Legorol`	`it should be ok once i have the email addy`
`19:49.37`	`Cairenn`	`anyway, I'm off for BBQ, back in a few hours`
`19:49.39`	`krka`	`Legorol: does that mean that tourists can't use gmail inside UK?`
`19:49.39`	`Legorol`	`i won't need the tunnel anymore, just to set it up`
`19:49.43`	`Thrae`	`www.trashmail.net`
`19:49.57`	`Thrae`	`Wait, you can't even access www.gmail.com from the UK?!`
`19:50.02`	`Legorol`	`yes you can`
`19:50.17`	`Rallion`	`what's the story behind the no 'gmail.com' thing again? I read about it back in the day, but I don't remember anymore`
`19:50.17`	`Legorol`	`you can do everything except creating a new account with @gmail.com`
`19:50.29`	`Legorol`	`another UK company already had the GMail name as a trademark`
`19:50.44`	`Legorol`	`tbh, it's google shooting themselves in the foot`
`19:50.59`	`Cide`	`Next Generation, currently running the headline "EXCLUSIVE: E3 FINISHED," claims that the ESA's Doug Lowenstein will announce within 48 hours that E3 has been cancelled for 2007 and beyond.`
`19:51.06`	`Cide`	`"Costs have been getting out of hand. We're talking double digit millions for some of us," said an MCV source. "But that's not just floorspace, of course - it's build, parties, hotels, flights. Security, particularly, has become a massive cost."`
`19:51.07`	`Legorol`	`for a company like google, with international profile, their trademark researchers should've picked up on this`
`19:51.15`	`krka`	`google should just prefix "google" on all their products`
`19:51.19`	`krka`	`1) no collisions`
`19:51.23`	`krka`	`2) easy to remember`
`19:51.29`	`Legorol`	`but lets' face it, gmail is easier than googlemail`
`19:51.29`	`Rallion`	`Cide, I saw that`
`19:51.46`	`Cairenn\|afk`	`Cide: link?`
`19:51.53`	`Shadowed`	`http://next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3538&Itemid=2`
`19:51.58`	`Rallion`	`It seems to me they could just set up some rules to LIMIT SPENDING/`
`19:52.07`	`Legorol`	`anyways, anything interesting happen in the past week?`
`19:52.12`	`Shadowed`	`that would be the easy way out`
`19:52.12`	`Legorol`	`except for bitlib going back to 32-bits..`
`19:52.19`	`Thrae`	`In the case of trademark names trademarked outside the country, there should a) Be a global Patent & Trademark Office (not going to happen for a while) or b) Just let them use the name if it's a different product.`
`19:53.05`	`Cide`	`http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/43144 <- my source`
`19:53.17`	`Cairenn\|afk`	`I am going to be severely fucking pissed if this is true`
`19:53.17`	`krka`	`hmm... now, to work on getting nvidia in linux running, or work on my sandbox-thingyu`
`19:53.19`	`Hexarobee`	`gmail.com still goes to google in the UK right? its not like the trademark holder gets the domain, they just get to prevent google from using their domain?`
`19:53.44`	`krka`	`implementing function timeouts with pthreads is going to be messy :/`
`19:53.45`	`Shadowed`	`Cairenn\|afk: why's that?`
`19:53.52`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge A\|Pharmore (i=where@71-12-134-52.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com)`
`19:54.03`	`Cairenn\|afk`	`ah well ... nothing like a good BBQ'd steak to take ones' mind off things ... later all`
`19:54.18`	`Rallion`	`E3 is the best thing ever, that's why`
`19:56.20`	*** join/#wowi-lounge ag`__ (n=Andreas@0x535cbbaa.bynxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk)
`20:03.34`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge gngsk\| (n=gngsk@c-68-33-204-115.hsd1.md.comcast.net)`
`20:13.48`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@208.104.133.240)`
`20:14.38`	`krka`	`sweet!`
`20:14.42`	`krka`	`i repaired nvidia`
`20:14.51`	`krka`	`by downloading some weird ubuntu-dapper script`
`20:14.56`	`krka`	`many <3`
`20:15.09`	`krka`	`didn't even have leave irc :)`
`20:15.22`	`Hexarobee`	`its really a shame for loops cant count down instead of up`
`20:17.31`	`krka`	`hmm?`
`20:17.34`	`krka`	`they can't?`
`20:17.54`	`krka`	`<PROTECTED>`
`20:18.07`	`krka`	`works for me`
`20:19.09`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge PrinceAMD (n=PeinceAM@65.199.205.204)`
`20:20.13`	`Hexarobee`	`ok but u have to give it -2`
`20:20.25`	`Hexarobee`	`i want it to automatically count down if arg1>arg2`
`20:20.32`	`Hexarobee`	`but that helps ;)`
`20:20.38`	`Hexarobee`	`can clean up my code a lil bit`
`20:21.06`	`krka`	`well, -1 works too`
`20:21.09`	`krka`	`i wonder if 0 works...`
`20:21.20`	`krka`	`infinite loop if you use 0`
`20:21.40`	`Hexarobee`	`ya i used -1`
`20:21.42`	`Hexarobee`	`well`
`20:21.50`	`Hexarobee`	`i want the for to count up if if its pos, down if its neg`
`20:21.55`	`Hexarobee`	`so i have to figure out c`
`20:22.03`	`krka`	`local step = (arg1 > arg2 and 1) or -1`
`20:22.10`	`Hexarobee`	`it would save me an if else if it did it automatically`
`20:22.14`	`krka`	`for i = a, b, step do`
`20:22.29`	`Hexarobee`	`ya thats what im doing`
`20:45.04`	`Rallion`	`is there a simple way to copy a table in LUA?`
`20:45.17`	`Rallion`	`I'm pretty sure that's a stupid question, alas, I don't know the answer.`
`20:46.25`	`krka`	`in most cases you dont need to copy a table`
`20:46.43`	`krka`	`but when you really do, there are some libraries out there that have the functionality`
`20:46.54`	`Rallion`	`okay`
`20:47.08`	`krka`	`that takes care of cycles and stuff`
`20:47.23`	`Rallion`	`ooh, cycles.`
`20:48.37`	`Rallion`	`my reason is a profile settings system`
`20:50.50`	`Rallion`	`writing a simple table copy function is pretty trivial, I suppose, if you're sure you won't have any loops in them`
`20:51.53`	`krka`	`yes`
`20:52.03`	`krka`	`or keys that are tables`
`20:52.52`	`Rallion`	`ah, heh, that too`
`20:53.22`	`Kirkburn`	`Weird, a fly flew into my hair earlier, and I brushed it off - couldn't see where it went ... it just crawled out my keyboard :/`
`20:54.16`	`cladhaire`	`eew?`
`20:54.37`	`Kirkburn`	`Ya`
`20:56.06`	`Rallion`	`I hate that.`
`20:56.19`	`Rallion`	`I hate the idea of bugs in my keybaord.`
`21:01.11`	`Rallion`	`actually, I don't think tables as keys would be difficult to copy...you just have to define whether or not you want THEM deep-copied themselves or not`
`21:06.56`	`Hexarobee`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Tcopy`
`21:06.59`	`Hexarobee`	`table copy function`
`21:11.59`	`Kirkburn`	`This is weird ... E3 may or may not be cancelled next year`
`21:12.06`	`Kirkburn`	`http://www.britishgaming.co.uk/?p=1082`
`21:12.55`	`Kirkburn`	`Lots more on it: http://feeds.joystiq.com/~r/weblogsinc/joystiq/~3/7315265/`
`21:15.37`	`Osagasu`	`Good riddance?`
`21:16.33`	`Legorol`	`yay, Blizz UI code now uses CreateFrame!`
`21:16.37`	`Legorol`	`gogo`
`21:17.04`	`cladhaire`	`Legorol: Which addon?`
`21:17.14`	`Legorol`	`the raid pullouts`
`21:18.01`	`cladhaire`	`You mean I can make MBR go away?`
`21:18.10`	`Legorol`	`much <3 for this too: +RegisterForSave("TRAINER_FILTER_AVAILABLE");`
`21:18.15`	`Legorol`	`and similar stuff`
`21:18.38`	`Osagasu`	`Wait, what?`
`21:18.46`	`Legorol`	`seems to me that, from now on`
`21:18.46`	`Osagasu`	`What is so good about CreateFrame?`
`21:19.03`	`Legorol`	`tradeskill frame will remember what you set in the dropdown (available/unavailable etc.)`
`21:19.13`	`cladhaire`	`yay`
`21:19.19`	`Legorol`	`Osagasu: smaller memory usage`
`21:19.25`	`Osagasu`	`ooooh`
`21:19.29`	`Osagasu`	`that IS good.`
`21:19.30`	`Legorol`	`at the moment, the UI code creates something like 15 raid pullout frames`
`21:19.33`	`Legorol`	`even if you never use them`
`21:19.44`	`Legorol`	`but in the PTR version, it uses CreateFrame instead`
`21:19.50`	`Legorol`	`so it creates as many on the fly as necessary`
`21:19.52`	`Osagasu`	`That's only after the addon is loaded though, right?`
`21:20.00`	`Legorol`	`yeah`
`21:20.07`	`Osagasu`	`mmmhmm`
`21:20.08`	`Legorol`	`but the addon loads if you open raid tab`
`21:20.18`	`Osagasu`	`Well these days it gets loaded daily on my system`
`21:20.22`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge _Valgrind (n=bortas@c-bb0d70d5.09-31-6c6b7010.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`21:20.22`	`Osagasu`	`yeah`
`21:20.37`	`cladhaire`	`haha thats very good.`
`21:20.43`	`cladhaire`	`one less addon to maintain`
`21:21.04`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`21:21.20`	`Thrae`	`Legorol: You use Warmup? How much does RaidUI take up now?`
`21:21.28`	`Thrae`	`Even with MiniBlizzRaid it takes up ~3MB for me.`
`21:21.34`	`cladhaire`	`it shouldn't.`
`21:21.40`	`cladhaire`	`its very small without.`
`21:23.00`	`Legorol`	`sorry i never used Warmup :(`
`21:23.07`	`Legorol`	`oooh, and TaxiFrame uses CreateTexture`
`21:23.08`	`Legorol`	`sweet`
`21:23.27`	`Thrae`	`Legorol: You should, Warmup is an excellent profiling addon.`
`21:23.30`	`Legorol`	`oth, this is somewhat disheartening in that all these goodies that slouken added for us, in fact were so that they can use it ;-)`
`21:23.45`	`Legorol`	`i am becoming a paranoid pessimist..`
`21:23.51`	`Legorol`	`slouken never adds stuff unless they'll use it`
`21:23.55`	`Thrae`	`I don't think Warmup requires Ace, does it?`
`21:24.27`	`cladhaire`	`nope`
`21:24.37`	`Thrae`	`So there's no reason not to use it as a dev ;)`
`21:24.46`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge _Valgrind (n=bortas@c-bb0d70d5.09-31-6c6b7010.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`21:24.47`	`Thrae`	`s/dev/Cosmos dev/`
`21:24.50`	`cladhaire`	`except its data is flawed`
`21:24.53`	`End-sleep`	`there's been one or two things they've added which they've never used (yet)`
`21:24.59`	`Thrae`	`Well, it's a good estimate.`
`21:25.00`	`cladhaire`	`but its a good starting point.`
`21:25.28`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=MentalPo@host-70-45-82-92.onelinkpr.net)`
`21:25.38`	`Legorol`	`i was only kidding about my comment about slouken's additions ;-)`
`21:25.52`	`cladhaire`	`its just why Rislyn has been so busy`
`21:25.53`	`Legorol`	`it's more like this: the community comes up with some ideas, and if Blizzard likes it to, they implement it`
`21:26.00`	`Legorol`	`some of which they will use too`
`21:26.18`	`Legorol`	`lol @ this comment in WorldMapFrame.lua:`
`21:26.19`	`Legorol`	`+-- FIX ME FOR 1.13`
`21:26.28`	`Kirkburn`	`It's nice that the UI team never rest on their laurels`
`21:26.39`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge gnorlish (n=jaydee@santamonica-cuda4-69-169-79-146.vnnyca.adelphia.net)`
`21:26.50`	`Kirkburn`	`haha`
`21:27.15`	`Legorol`	`does anyone know what WorldStateFrame is?`
`21:27.22`	`cladhaire`	`Legorol: Battleground status`
`21:27.27`	`cladhaire`	`imho`
`21:27.31`	`Legorol`	`they seem to have added something called "ExtendedUI" to it`
`21:27.32`	`cladhaire`	`the one in the center top of the screen`
`21:27.34`	`Legorol`	`i wonder what that is..`
`21:28.35`	`Kirkburn`	`Could be for the outdoor PvP?`
`21:28.46`	`Legorol`	`could be, yes`
`21:28.54`	`cladhaire`	`the tower status, etc.`
`21:28.55`	`Legorol`	`+ExtendedUI["CAPTUREPOINT"] = {`
`21:28.56`	`Legorol`	`+name = "WorldStateCaptureBar",`
`21:28.56`	`Legorol`	`+create = CaptureBar_Create,`
`21:28.56`	`Legorol`	`+update = CaptureBar_Update,`
`21:28.56`	`Legorol`	`+onHide = CaptureBar_Hide,`
`21:28.56`	`Legorol`	`+}`
`21:29.01`	`Legorol`	`i think you are right`
`21:29.01`	`cladhaire`	`oh yeah.`
`21:29.12`	`cladhaire`	`thats it.`
`21:29.46`	`Shadowed`	`It is`
`21:30.12`	`Shadowed`	`Shows a little bar with blue on one side, red on another, grey in the middle. and changes depending how many of what faction are in the towers area`
`21:31.07`	`Osagasu`	`Does Blizzard ever put joked into their LUA code?`
`21:31.10`	`Osagasu`	`**Jokes`
`21:31.27`	`krka`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:31.57`	`cladhaire`	`Legorol: PM's?`
`21:33.04`	`Legorol`	`cladhaire: i didn't get any PM`
`21:33.14`	`cladhaire`	`hrm`
`21:33.27`	`Legorol`	`hmm, freenode seems to think i'm not registered O.o`
`21:33.35`	`cladhaire`	`aah`
`21:34.26`	`Legorol`	`i just sent you a PM with "testing 123"`
`21:34.28`	`Legorol`	`did you get that?`
`21:34.35`	`cladhaire`	`aye`
`21:34.45`	`Legorol`	`ok then i'm registered`
`21:35.12`	`cladhaire`	`odd`
`21:35.12`	`cladhaire`	`np`
`21:40.43`	`Mery`	`hmm MouseIsOver does return true when you are over a frame thats hidden...`
`21:40.53`	`Legorol`	`yes it does`
`21:41.00`	`Legorol`	`because MouseIsOver is a simple geometry check`
`21:41.09`	`Legorol`	`whether the mouse's current coordinates fall within the edges of the frame or not`
`21:42.01`	`Legorol`	`btw is it just me, or are the number of people idling in here steadily rising?`
`21:43.28`	`End-sleep`	`it's just you!`
`21:44.32`	`Thrae`	`We're all here to see what slouken says and post it on the forums with the title of "WTF?!?!?!"`
`21:49.23`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (i=andrew@124.197.24.51)`
`22:13.02`	`Kirkburn`	`Did you hear they're using Windows 2000 as a security guard now? ... It always locks up :)`
`22:13.28`	`Kirkburn`	`(Sorry, I just heard it on futurama :)`
`22:14.32`	`Hexarobee`	`haha`
`22:15.57`	`Rallion`	`It's gonna be awesome to see how throroughly my massive refactoring broke my addon.`
`22:18.26`	`Rallion`	`I still keep putting functions in {} blocks...`
`22:24.40`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tarog (n=rat@ip68-230-57-60.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`22:28.00`	`Hexarobee`	`is there a way to send cross-server tells?`
`22:28.38`	`Kirkburn`	`In BGs?`
`22:28.48`	`Shadowed`	`yeah`
`22:28.50`	`Hexarobee`	`in general`
`22:28.52`	`Shadowed`	`no`
`22:28.57`	`Kirkburn`	`No, in general`
`22:29.02`	`Shadowed`	`You can in BG's on PTR`
`22:29.09`	`Hexarobee`	`ptr?`
`22:29.14`	`Shadowed`	`public test realm`
`22:29.17`	`Hexarobee`	`ahh`
`22:29.27`	`Kirkburn`	`pink turtle road`
`22:29.29`	`Hexarobee`	`what about cross-server channels?`
`22:29.35`	`Hexarobee`	`=)`
`22:29.42`	`Kirkburn`	`Which don't exist? :)`
`22:29.44`	`Hexarobee`	`thats my 2nd favorite turtle road`
`22:30.43`	`Kirkburn`	`I fear the conversation has become somewhat derailed`
`22:31.02`	`Kirkburn`	`Anyway, it's not possible, because realms aren't linked :)`
`22:31.23`	`Kirkburn`	`Only the BG servers are, within each host location (of which there are 6 on each continent)`
`22:31.27`	`Hexarobee`	`would it be considered bad form to force my addon to join a channel?`
`22:31.57`	`Kirkburn`	`Well, that depends on the addon, natch`
`22:32.22`	`Hexarobee`	`can i just send a /join command like a normal say?`
`22:32.25`	`Kirkburn`	`If it needs one, then no. After 1.12 people should be able to use more channels anyway`
`22:32.36`	`Kirkburn`	`Haven't got a clue about that`
`22:32.55`	`Hexarobee`	`its a chess game`
`22:33.09`	`Hexarobee`	`was thinking of autojoing wowchess to help people find others with the addon`
`22:33.48`	`Rallion`	`that sounds okay to me`
`22:33.59`	`Kirkburn`	`Seems fair to me too`
`22:34.21`	`Hexarobee`	`but what will they do when it becomes so popular their screen is spammed with the join/parts of all the wowChess users... oh my!`
`22:35.13`	`Rallion`	`heh, there are so many things that happen when coding that make me feel good...like making a crapload of changes, then having to fix them all one at a time, getting nothing, then suddenly, I hit reload, and my addon goes from not showing up at all to fully functional.`
`22:35.22`	`Rallion`	`you don't have to SHOW the channel.`
`22:36.03`	`ckknight`	`http://www.joystiq.com/2006/07/30/e3-canceled-for-next-year-and-beyond/`
`22:36.46`	`Rallion`	`STOP! I don't want to see it anymore! Not happening not happening not happening.`
`22:39.48`	`Hexarobee`	`take yer mind off it with a nice game of chess =-)`
`22:39.58`	`Hexarobee`	`www.hexarobi.com/wowChess10b5.zip`
`22:40.05`	`Hexarobee`	`www.hexarobi.com/wowchess/wowChess10b5.zip`
`22:42.35`	`Rallion`	`lol I'll look at it later`
`22:42.44`	`Rallion`	`I saw the screenshot on WoWI, though, looks pretty`
`22:42.57`	`Hexarobee`	`anyone feel like playing a game to test move validation?`
`22:43.03`	`Hexarobee`	`thx =)`
`23:00.17`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-69-202-110-177.twcny.res.rr.com)`
`23:00.51`	`Rallion`	`something in my head broke and I did a lot of work on a very silly assumption, one that is just obviously wrong.`
`23:04.02`	`Kirkburn`	`Great, seems the network card on my parents PC has decided now is a good time to die`
`23:04.29`	`Kirkburn`	`In fact, the computer sounds like it's going to die soon anyway`
`23:04.47`	`Hexarobee`	`hehe rallion i just did something similiar`
`23:05.07`	`Hexarobee`	`spent like 3 hrs building a function that returned a list of all the valid spaces a rook could move to`
`23:05.29`	`Hexarobee`	`before i realised if i sent the from position and the to position to a function, i could work backwards doing the check way simpler`
`23:05.37`	`Hexarobee`	`and had to toss all the code i had, that was working`
`23:10.53`	`Kirkburn`	`The PC even has an in-built network card, but I can't get it working without a complete re-install ... which is out of the question :/`
`23:14.56`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge norganna (n=chatzill@65.98.88.90)`
`23:17.25`	`Rallion`	`I was doing things like var = table[key1][key2] and then thinking that if var was nil, I could still do var = {} to initialize table[key1][key2]`
`23:17.56`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`23:18.26`	`Hexarobee`	`hehe`
`23:18.49`	`Rallion`	`i did realize the mistake before I tested any of it, at least`
`23:19.41`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn2 (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`23:19.49`	`Kirkburn2`	`So yeah`
`23:20.22`	`Kirkburn2`	`That PC will limp on for a while longer fortunately - I got the internal network card working (why on earth it had an extra one, I "don't know")`
`23:20.49`	`Hexarobee`	`=)`
`23:20.53`	`Kirkburn2`	`except that I bought it`
`23:20.57`	`Hexarobee`	`jhaha`
`23:22.43`	`Kirkburn2`	`The computer is 5 years old and sounds like a heavy smoker - hopefully it'll last until Vista is released`
`23:23.06`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com)`
`23:23.12`	`Hexarobee`	`wow`
`23:23.19`	`Hexarobee`	`total dejavu`
`23:23.31`	`Kirkburn2`	`How so?`
`23:23.49`	`Hexarobee`	`its hard to explain a dejavu moment`
`23:24.06`	`Hexarobee`	`i had the sensation that i had lived those exact three seconds before...`
`23:24.28`	`Hexarobee`	`werehamster's join message was part of it`
`23:24.40`	`Hexarobee`	`but also the way the irc window was being redrawn`
`23:24.50`	`Hexarobee`	`and the thought i was having of the next function i need to write`
`23:24.53`	`Hexarobee`	`just felt eerie`
`23:27.11`	`Hexarobee`	`hey rallion did you say a few days ago you had psuedo code for a chess game?`
`23:27.39`	`Rallion`	`written out on paper somewhere`
`23:27.42`	`Rallion`	`not sure I could find it`
`23:28.00`	`Mikk`	`~seen AnduinLothar`
`23:28.14`	`purl`	`anduinlothar <n=KarlKFI@68.106.219.78> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowi-lounge, 9d 21h 23m 49s ago, saying: '~slap purl'.`
`23:28.20`	`Hexarobee`	`k`
`23:28.26`	`Mikk`	`meh`
`23:28.29`	`Hexarobee`	`trying to think of a good way to do an is`
`23:28.34`	`Hexarobee`	`isInCheck() function`
`23:28.52`	`Hexarobee`	`short of doing a validmove from every openents piece to the king`
`23:28.59`	`Hexarobee`	`i guess thats the only way`
`23:29.03`	`Rallion`	`I think so`
`23:29.12`	`Rallion`	`It's how I did it`
`23:30.19`	`Rallion`	`it can be a pain to program, depending on how you did everything, but it's not going to be a huge computational problem, at least`
`23:31.41`	`Mery`	`maybe you want to do it isInCheck(field)`
`23:33.58`	`Hexarobee`	`doing isInCheck(color, toCol, toRow)`
`23:34.10`	`Hexarobee`	`so i can check if a move would be in check or not`
`23:35.41`	`Mery`	`:)`
`23:37.52`	`Kirkburn`	`Oooh, changing hosting providers - I hope no-one wants to send any important emails to my family in the next day =)`
`23:38.14`	`cladhaire`	`lol`
`23:38.37`	`Kirkburn`	`Fortunately, they're on holiday ...`
`23:46.09`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`23:52.18`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Mikk (i=bofh@81-233-236-26-no19.tbcn.telia.com)`
`23:52.20`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge zenzelezz (n=zenzelez@ti131310a080-2849.bb.online.no)`
`23:52.38`	`Kirkburn`	`Just thinking - we have no idea of the lifespan of a draenei, no?`
`23:55.30`	`Mery`	`up to lvl 69, once they hit level 70 they die (delete themselves).`
`23:58.03`	`ckknight_`	`back`

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