irclog2html for #wowi-lounge on 20060731

`00:00.46`	`Kirkburn`	`Mery, hehe`
`00:01.02`	`Kirkburn`	`They appear to have lifespans similar to Night Elves`
`00:01.42`	`Kirkburn`	`Especially since it suggests in the draenei shaman story that Velen is still leader`
`00:01.58`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tarog (n=rat@ip68-230-57-60.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`00:02.22`	`Kirkburn`	`In fact, if night elves and draenei are immortal, why on earth don't they outnumber everything else in the universe`
`00:02.45`	`Kirkburn`	`You'd think they'd have overpopulation problems pretty quickly`
`00:04.10`	`Kirkburn`	`Especially if night elves did indeed evolve from those crazy rabbit-like trolls`
`00:04.11`	`Rallion`	`Well, it's the same as LotR elves, they don't reproduce much at all`
`00:04.36`	`Rallion`	`and just because they're related to trolls doesn't mean they have the same habits`
`00:04.41`	`Kirkburn`	`I guess protection isn't outlawed by their religion :)`
`00:05.05`	`Mery`	`well and if it is, i feel bad for them`
`00:05.34`	`Rallion`	`nd of course, Night Elves are no longer immortal, but that's a recent change`
`00:05.35`	`Kirkburn`	`True ... but going from crazy bonobo-type trolls to nun-like nelfs is quite some swing`
`00:06.04`	`Rallion`	`Maybe there WERE insane numbers of NE before the first demonic invasion.`
`00:06.19`	`Kirkburn`	`For those wondering about Bonobo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo`
`00:06.23`	`Kirkburn`	`*Bonobos`
`00:06.45`	`Kirkburn`	`uh, that correction just confused it all further :P`
`00:06.57`	`Kirkburn`	`True, that's possible`
`00:07.10`	`Rallion`	`And the NE lost a good number of people that ultimately became other races`
`00:07.16`	`Rallion`	`namely the High Elves and the Naga`
`00:08.02`	`Rallion`	`dammit now I want to play War3 some more, but I'm commenting my code and if I stop now I'll never start again`
`00:08.28`	`Kirkburn`	`(for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo, see the 'Social behaviour' section :O )`
`00:09.16`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh yeah, and Satyrs`
`00:09.57`	`Rallion`	`oh, forgot them`
`00:11.15`	`Rallion`	`I think it's fairly likely that the Draenei pretty much just don't reproduce, too, given their exile`
`00:11.16`	`ckknight`	`I'm pretty sure Immortality and sterility are linked`
`00:11.37`	`Rallion`	`you know, there are no NE kids in the game`
`00:12.01`	`Rallion`	`on the alliance side,the only race with kids is humans`
`00:12.05`	`ckknight`	`where are the Goblin, Troll, Gnome, or Dwarf kids?`
`00:12.05`	`ckknight`	`:-P`
`00:12.11`	`ckknight`	`or Tauren`
`00:12.14`	`ckknight`	`I wanna see a baby Tauren`
`00:12.33`	`ckknight`	`there are only Human and Orc kids, afaik`
`00:12.34`	`Rallion`	`mmm veal.`
`00:12.45`	`Kirkburn`	`Correct, ckknight :)`
`00:13.00`	`Kirkburn`	`Wait, I mean :-(`
`00:13.20`	`Kirkburn`	`I really do think they should add them`
`00:13.37`	`ckknight`	`I agree.`
`00:13.44`	`ckknight`	`we should see kids of all races`
`00:13.45`	`Kirkburn`	`It's a huge bit of ambience completely missing from the game`
`00:13.58`	`ckknight`	`I mean, wouldn't you love to see like 5 kids sitting in a circle with a shaman teaching them stories?`
`00:14.03`	`ckknight`	`(Tauren)`
`00:14.06`	`Kirkburn`	`Hell yeah`
`00:14.10`	`Rallion`	`hell yes.`
`00:14.15`	`ckknight`	`I mean, it'd make total sense`
`00:14.19`	`Rallion`	`are there undead kids anywhere?`
`00:14.23`	`Kirkburn`	`None`
`00:14.26`	`ckknight`	`Undead kids don't exist`
`00:14.32`	`ckknight`	`undead don't procreate`
`00:14.32`	`Rallion`	`They should.`
`00:14.33`	`ckknight`	`afaik`
`00:14.42`	`Rallion`	`True, but you can still have undead kids.`
`00:14.43`	`Kirkburn`	`Ah, but children should be affected too`
`00:14.46`	`ckknight`	`well, they could technically turn a child undead`
`00:14.56`	`ckknight`	`then it'd eventually grow up, though likely at a slower rate`
`00:15.02`	`Rallion`	`maybe not`
`00:15.03`	`Kirkburn`	`That could be explained by saying the plague kills young ones of course`
`00:15.07`	`ckknight`	`right.`
`00:15.17`	`ckknight`	`I don't see Undead kids as necessary`
`00:15.18`	`Rallion`	`Could be like the girl in Interview with the Vampire`
`00:15.21`	`ckknight`	`they'd be the only race, though`
`00:15.30`	`ckknight`	`I was thinking the same thing, Rallion`
`00:15.56`	`Rallion`	`I definitely think that if they were to add kids to just one more race, it should be Tauren`
`00:15.59`	`Kirkburn`	`That reminds me ... what's with the little things that look like baby tauren wrapped in wicker baskets held above ground`
`00:16.42`	`Kirkburn`	`Are they tauren graveyards?`
`00:17.08`	`ckknight`	`not sure`
`00:17.31`	`ckknight`	`Tauren kids make sense to have, they don't even need to do anything, just sit around and listen to Shaman`
`00:17.46`	`ckknight`	`and they'd be called like "Young one" all the time`
`00:17.51`	`ckknight`	`take heart, young one`
`00:18.42`	`Rallion`	`I'm fine without having young dwarves or gnomes`
`00:19.29`	`ckknight`	`I'd still like em`
`00:19.44`	`Rallion`	`I don't have any idea what they'd look like`
`00:21.16`	`Hexarobee`	`whoot checkCheck() code done, lets see if it works ;)`
`00:21.35`	`ckknight`	`Rallion, like midget kids?`
`00:22.02`	`Kirkburn`	`Gnome children ... 5 inches high`
`00:22.33`	`ckknight`	`maybe Gnomes are like frogs`
`00:22.38`	`ckknight`	`their children are tadpole-like`
`00:22.42`	`ckknight`	`;-0`
`00:22.45`	`ckknight`	`;-)*`
`00:23.00`	`Kirkburn`	`heh`
`00:23.06`	`Rallion`	`hehehe`
`00:23.20`	`Rallion`	`i dunno if dwarf kids would even exist`
`00:23.24`	`Kirkburn`	`Since half of them are now radioactive, I doubt they'll be having 'normal' children for a while ...`
`00:23.45`	`Kirkburn`	`And would they have beards ...`
`00:24.47`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=tardmrr@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net)`
`00:25.57`	`ckknight`	`and Trolls grow a lot faster than other races, afaik`
`00:26.17`	`ckknight`	`i.e. they hit puberty younger`
`00:27.23`	`Kirkburn`	`I still want to see it :)`
`00:27.38`	`Tem`	`what on earth are you talking about?`
`00:27.47`	`Kirkburn`	`haha`
`00:28.00`	`ckknight`	`Tem, we want more kids in WoW`
`00:28.04`	`Kirkburn`	`The absence of tauren, troll, undead, etc children`
`00:28.10`	`ckknight`	`like Tauren children that have a powwow with a shaman`
`00:28.24`	`Kirkburn`	`<ckknight> I mean, wouldn't you love to see like 5 kids sitting in a circle with a shaman teaching them stories?`
`00:28.29`	`Kirkburn`	`=)`
`00:29.01`	`Hexarobee`	`undead children makes sense`
`00:29.03`	`ckknight`	`it'd be pretty cool`
`00:29.06`	`Hexarobee`	`zombies are bitten, not birthed`
`00:29.15`	`Hexarobee`	`err lack of undead children makes sense`
`00:29.31`	`kergoth`	`children die too.`
`00:29.49`	`Hexarobee`	`but god saves children from zombie hood`
`00:29.52`	`Hexarobee`	`jesus read yer bible`
`00:29.55`	`kergoth`	`hahah`
`00:30.05`	`Hexarobee`	`=)`
`00:31.21`	`Hexarobee`	`gotta reboot`
`00:31.22`	`Hexarobee`	`brb`
`00:35.16`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge zespri_work (n=andrews@124.197.24.51)`
`00:35.27`	`Kirkburn`	`Was that intended? "<Hexarobee> jesus read yer bible"`
`00:35.36`	`Kirkburn`	`I wouldn't think he needed to ... ;)`
`00:35.45`	`Kirkburn`	`(I know he's left)`
`00:36.48`	`zespri_work`	`yeah, yeah, we got it, you just like talking to yourself =))`
`00:40.37`	`Rallion`	`apparently nobody likes either of you`
`00:40.48`	`Kirkburn`	`haha`
`00:40.52`	`Kirkburn`	`I knew it already`
`00:40.57`	`Rallion`	`hehe`
`00:45.47`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Hexarobi (i=Hexarobe@71.15.119.130)`
`00:46.51`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Xov (i=s7rYd3r@c-24-11-254-9.hsd1.in.comcast.net)`
`00:48.39`	`Xov`	`Okay, I want to know if there is a way to not only detect if a debuff is up on a mob, but if a particular debuff came from me. For example in a raid setting with multiple warlocks I wanna know if my corruption is up`
`00:49.06`	`Kirkburn`	`I don't think it's possible :/`
`00:49.16`	`Xov`	`if not, would it be better to just cast corrution, and if its successful wait X time (while it ticks away)`
`00:49.24`	`cladhaire`	`its not possible.`
`00:49.26`	`Kirkburn`	`Afaik, when one gets buffed, you don't know who the buff came from`
`00:49.28`	`cladhaire`	`unless you track what you cast`
`00:49.29`	`cladhaire`	`and guess.`
`00:50.09`	`Kirkburn`	`Is corruption high priority?`
`00:50.20`	`Kirkburn`	`If so, the second idea would work`
`00:50.30`	`Xov`	`i guess im trying to make a lazy macro, i want it to cast corruption and then cast shadowbolts until corruption is off and cast corruption again`
`00:50.33`	`Xov`	`=)`
`00:50.44`	`cladhaire`	`you'll need to "time" it then`
`00:50.49`	`cladhaire`	`if you want it to work with other warlocks.`
`00:50.51`	`Kirkburn`	`But then, of course, the problem is timing :)`
`00:50.56`	`cladhaire`	`but it should be simple`
`00:51.10`	`cladhaire`	`or relatively =)`
`00:51.19`	`Kirkburn`	`Compared to nuclear physics`
`00:51.29`	`Xov`	`and i can check if it was succesful, right? like not resisted`
`00:51.36`	`cladhaire`	`using aftercast, yes.`
`00:51.37`	`Kirkburn`	`in an alternate universe`
`00:51.43`	`Xov`	`oh thanks, thats encouraging!`
`00:51.52`	`cladhaire`	`you could aftercast Corruption and then save the server time.. then if its X seconds later.. cast it again.`
`00:52.17`	`Xov`	`aftercast? that a builtin function?`
`00:52.24`	`cladhaire`	`no`
`00:52.25`	`cladhaire`	`=)`
`00:52.29`	`cladhaire`	`one of iriels mods`
`00:52.55`	`Xov`	`bah, im a noob sauce, i dont understand using other peopels stuff`
`00:53.06`	`Xov`	`of course all my mods a make suck too =D`
`00:53.09`	`cladhaire`	`its a mod.. download it.. i believe it has examples.`
`00:53.33`	`cladhaire`	`http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4167`
`00:55.06`	`Kirkburn`	`I'm actually looking forward to the time of patches without class reviews`
`00:55.45`	`Kirkburn`	`Random comment, I know ... but I just got reminded that there will be no more such reviews`
`00:56.22`	`cladhaire`	`huh?`
`00:56.25`	`cladhaire`	`yeah there will be`
`00:56.29`	`cladhaire`	`they'll be reviewing classes constantly`
`00:56.49`	`cladhaire`	`warriors and paladin still need to be looked at again, at least`
`00:56.55`	`cladhaire`	`tghen warlocks will bictj, etc`
`00:57.01`	`Kirkburn`	`But there will be no more 'class review' patches`
`00:57.26`	`cladhaire`	`meh.. semantics =)`
`00:57.27`	`cladhaire`	`but yes`
`00:57.30`	`Kirkburn`	`But obviously, they'll still be making changes :)`
`00:59.09`	`Thrae`	`Basically it's their way of saying "Rather then take the chance people wait and wait and get disappointed, we'll just have small peaks and valleys of disappointment"`
`00:59.15`	`Kirkburn`	`haha`
`00:59.16`	`Thrae`	`Overally, good PR move in my opinion.`
`00:59.28`	`Kirkburn`	`Very true`
`00:59.34`	`Kirkburn`	`It created too much expectation`
`00:59.47`	`Kirkburn`	`They've done the groundwork now anyway`
`01:00.40`	`Thrae`	`Most of the disappointment really comes from changes people don't understand. It takes time for people to work with the changes to really understand why they were done. So spreading them out will give people time to adjust.`
`01:00.58`	`Thrae`	`I can't believe people thought Swiftmend was a horrible talent.`
`01:01.07`	`Kirkburn`	`Remind me what it does ...`
`01:01.28`	`cladhaire`	`lightwell ftw`
`01:01.42`	`Thrae`	`31-point Druid Resto talent to take place of Innervate. Consumes one HoT and gives you the full effect instantly.`
`01:01.49`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh wow!`
`01:02.10`	`Thrae`	`And doesn't matter what tic the HoT is at, it'll always be full effect.`
`01:03.11`	`Kirkburn`	`So if you did it right at the end, you'd effectively get it twice?`
`01:03.46`	`Thrae`	`Exactly`
`01:03.51`	`Kirkburn`	`nice`
`01:14.26`	`Rallion`	`Swiftmend is nice.`
`01:15.04`	`cladhaire`	`i'm still 0/30/21`
`01:15.10`	`cladhaire`	`it'd be nice to be resto spec'd tho`
`01:17.19`	`Kirkburn`	`I so absolutely love Futurama - I just watched what I think it one the best episodes of them all (bar the last one) - Time Keeps on Slipping`
`01:18.12`	`Kirkburn`	`The Simpsons doesn't have the emotional depth of Futurama`
`01:19.13`	`Rallion`	`New epsisodes of The Simpsons don't have...uh...anything.`
`01:19.47`	`Rallion`	`I can't remember the last time I actually wanted to watch The Simpsons. Futurama's always good.`
`01:20.01`	`Hexarobi`	`which one is time keeps on slipping?`
`01:23.02`	`Kirkburn`	`With the basketball game`
`01:23.39`	`Kirkburn`	`And the time jumps, and fry writing a giant message for leela with stars`
`01:27.57`	`Tem`	`Swiftmend is the win in WSG`
`01:28.09`	`Tem`	`it's also the win on Razorgore`
`01:28.18`	`cladhaire`	`oh true dat`
`01:28.24`	`Tem`	`and perhaps also the win on Vael`
`01:28.29`	`Tem`	`fuck it`
`01:28.34`	`Tem`	`Swiftmend is the win all the time`
`01:29.05`	`Tem`	`I Can't kill a resto druid`
`01:33.48`	`Rallion`	`Heh I think my best chance at killing a resto druid would be with my priest...irony.`
`01:34.22`	`Rallion`	`my rogue couldn't, my paladin definitely couldn't...`
`01:37.21`	`Tain`	`What about swiftmend on Razorgore?`
`01:37.40`	`Tain`	`Not that it would matter, I don't think any of our druids have healing spells.`
`01:42.10`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge _Valgrind (n=bortas@c-bb0d70d5.09-31-6c6b7010.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`02:14.36`	`Hexarobi`	`ok it was a long day, got move validation and checkCheck completed`
`02:14.51`	`Hexarobi`	`and en passant`
`02:15.15`	`Hexarobi`	`just need to do castling and forced checkmate check`
`02:15.22`	`Hexarobi`	`which shouldnt be too hard`
`02:15.25`	`Hexarobi`	`then UI improvements`
`02:15.44`	`Hexarobi`	`somebody better go try and play a game and leave me a message if it works ;)`
`02:15.56`	`Rallion`	`figures. server crashes while I'm loggin on.`
`02:16.07`	`Hexarobi`	`http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=5204`
`02:19.45`	`Rallion`	`mmm...are they doing rolling restarts?`
`02:37.37`	`Rallion`	`sigh...I hate my server. It's usually fine once I'm on, but getting on isn't always easy`
`02:37.48`	`Rallion`	`It usually takes minutes to get my character list`
`02:44.19`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Thrae, good idea/bad idea: keeping the local copy of TinyTooltip updated via SVN`
`02:45.36`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Flyoc (n=flyin_do@APlessis-Bouchard-153-1-81-46.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`02:49.32`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge zespri_work (n=andrews@124.197.24.51)`
`02:54.15`	`zespri_work`	`hey Cairenn`
`02:54.23`	`Cairenn`	`hi zespri`
`02:54.30`	`zespri_work`	`how are you doing?`
`02:54.30`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge dreamss (i=dreamss@0wn3d.vcdquality.com)`
`02:54.42`	`Cairenn`	`not bad, yourself?`
`02:56.53`	`zespri_work`	`fine... we moved on another floor in the building, and everybody is upset with their new desk positions, so half of people asking the other half to swap with them, the other half refuses and everybudy gets grumpy and upset`
`02:57.10`	`Cairenn`	`happy happy joy joy =/`
`02:57.57`	`zespri_work`	`oh yeah, this is fun. like waiting for your phone to get conected, the printer throwing a fit because it doesn't like it on the new floor and such =)`
`02:58.07`	`zespri_work`	`lots of people running all directions =)`
`02:58.20`	`Cairenn`	`=/`
`02:59.10`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge zinor (n=aaaa@ip-80-226-186-108.vodafone-net.de)`
`03:04.05`	`End-idle`	`gah wtf`
`03:04.18`	`End`	`oh I'm silly`
`03:04.24`	`End`	`never mind me`
`03:09.11`	`Cairenn`	`I have always loved how beautiful Nighthaven is, it's how all the NE areas should look`
`03:09.20`	`Wobin`	`NightHaven?`
`03:09.31`	`Cairenn`	`in the Moonglade`
`03:09.37`	`Wobin`	`oh =)`
`03:09.44`	`Wobin`	`I never remembered that name`
`03:09.52`	`Wobin`	`I only remembered how hard it was to get anywhere in there =)`
`03:14.03`	`clad\|sleep`	`night all`
`03:14.07`	`Cairenn`	`night clad\|sleep`
`03:14.14`	`clad\|sleep`	`night Cairenn`
`03:45.03`	`Rallion`	`...d'oh...there's no way to detect when a frame gets dragged via the title area method, is there?`
`03:52.47`	`DoomGaze3`	`MyTable = {}; (type(MyTable) == "string")`
`03:53.00`	`DoomGaze3`	`er`
`03:53.05`	`DoomGaze3`	`MyTable = {}; (type(MyTable) == "table")`
`03:53.31`	`DoomGaze3`	`then: MyTable = "some string"; (type(MyTable) == "string)?`
`03:54.31`	`DoomGaze3`	`will these expressions both eval to true?`
`03:55.42`	`Rallion`	`ignoring the typos, yes`
`03:55.52`	`DoomGaze3`	`ty`
`04:16.31`	`Rallion`	`argh I'm having trouble getting my frame to grow/shrink from any point except top left when using frame:SetWidth and frame:SetHeight`
`04:18.17`	`Cide`	`do you have more than one point set?`
`04:18.43`	`Rallion`	`ooh I may have found the problem`
`04:19.09`	`Rallion`	`mm, nope`
`04:20.14`	`Rallion`	`oh, okay`
`04:20.17`	`Rallion`	`I found the problem`
`04:20.57`	`Rallion`	`so, now I know. using the titleregion to make your frames draggable can cause problems.`
`04:21.18`	`ScytheBlade1`	`haha`
`04:21.29`	`ScytheBlade1`	`On a PvP server, I just ganked some flagged hordies`
`04:21.42`	`ScytheBlade1`	`*Pve`
`04:21.45`	`ScytheBlade1`	`*PvE`
`04:25.52`	`Rallion`	`how would I go about switching an anchor point without moving the frame in the process?`
`04:34.10`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r43h96.res.gatech.edu)`
`04:34.15`	`JoshBorke`	`hola`
`04:34.39`	`Rallion`	`okay, so, two problems...1) I'm not sure how to go about switching anchor points while keeping the frame still, and 2) The anchors change whenever I drag it`
`04:35.40`	`JoshBorke`	`what do you mean: switching anchor points while keeping the frame still?`
`04:35.55`	`JoshBorke`	`like, if you anchored to BOTTOMLEFT of UIParent and want to archor to TOPLEFT instead?`
`04:36.17`	`Rallion`	`yeah`
`04:36.38`	`Rallion`	`the frame resizes sometimes, and it would be very nice to change where it grows from`
`04:36.53`	`Rallion`	`okay, that's not what you said, actually`
`04:36.54`	`Rallion`	`heh`
`04:37.34`	`DoomGaze3`	`do lua logical operators short circuit?`
`04:37.38`	`JoshBorke`	`you can switch the anchor point`
`04:37.56`	`JoshBorke`	`Doom: think so 'if (nil and true)' jumps out at the nil, if that's what you mean`
`04:38.13`	`JoshBorke`	`Rallion: you can change the anchor points without moving the frame rather easily i believe`
`04:38.17`	`DoomGaze3`	`sweet`
`04:38.35`	`JoshBorke`	`Rallion: using GetPoint and then adding/subtracting the height/width as needed and changing anchors`
`04:38.51`	`DoomGaze3`	`how about: if (true or nil) then...end does it jump out at true?`
`04:39.07`	`JoshBorke`	`i'd say it waits until it sees the 'or', but yes`
`04:39.11`	`Rallion`	`i'm not really sure how GetPoint works`
`04:39.29`	`JoshBorke`	`Rallion: it returns the parameters you would use for SetPoint`
`04:39.57`	`DoomGaze3`	`ty`
`04:40.19`	`JoshBorke`	`Rallion: so something like: 'local point,relativeTo,relativePoint,xOfs,yOfs = frame:GetPoint()' then frame:SetPoint(point,relativeTo,relativePoint,xOfs,yOfs`
`04:40.42`	`Rallion`	`okay`
`04:41.46`	`JoshBorke`	`so, if you point is current BOTTOMLEFT and you want to change to TOPLEFT, then you could do: frame:SetPoint('TOPLEFT',relativeTo,relativePoint,xOfs,yOfs+frame:GetHeight())`
`04:41.54`	`JoshBorke`	`or something like that, i'm not very good with life`
`04:42.18`	`Rallion`	`heh I'll work it out, thanks`
`04:42.42`	`ckknight`	`~emulate the count`
`04:42.44`	`purl`	`One! One bat! Mwa ha ha! Two! Two bats!`
`04:43.03`	`JoshBorke`	`~tryme`
`04:43.05`	`purl`	`ACTION pokes JoshBorke. Always`
`04:43.16`	`JoshBorke`	`~roulette`
`04:43.17`	`purl`	`ACTION watches joshborke pull the trigger: Click!`
`04:44.29`	`ckknight`	`~literal tryme`
`04:44.31`	`purl`	`"tryme" is "<action> pokes $lastspeaker. (Yes\|No\|Maybe\|Possibly\|Almost\|Never\|Always)"`
`04:45.27`	`Cairenn`	`~bonk ckknight`
`04:45.29`	`purl`	`ACTION bonks ckknight over the head`
`04:45.29`	`ckknight`	`~tryme`
`04:45.30`	`purl`	`ACTION pokes ckknight. Always`
`04:45.36`	`ckknight`	`hrm.`
`04:45.46`	`JoshBorke`	`lol`
`04:45.48`	`ckknight`	`Cairenn, that's hurtful`
`04:45.48`	`JoshBorke`	`~tryme`
`04:45.49`	`purl`	`ACTION pokes JoshBorke. Maybe`
`04:45.55`	`ckknight`	`hrm.`
`04:46.21`	`DoomGaze3`	`what's up ck?`
`04:46.41`	`DoomGaze3`	`~tryme`
`04:46.43`	`purl`	`ACTION pokes DoomGaze3. Maybe`
`04:46.56`	`ckknight`	`not much, DoomGaze3`
`04:47.03`	`ckknight`	`been working on Ace2`
`04:47.27`	`DoomGaze3`	`it turns out item auctions are a logistical nightmare`
`04:47.51`	`DoomGaze3`	`as I'm sure you could tell by the code you saw yesterday. :P`
`04:47.53`	`ckknight`	`oh yes`
`04:48.20`	`ckknight`	`oh, I thought of a reason why namespaces are more useful than just locals for you`
`04:48.26`	`DoomGaze3`	`yes?`
`04:48.30`	`ckknight`	`for locals, positioning is important`
`04:48.44`	`ckknight`	`e.g. you can't call a function defined later than the current one`
`04:48.48`	`ckknight`	`without mangling, that is`
`04:49.06`	`DoomGaze3`	`yeah, I thought of that today too... I gotta go thru and put all my helpers at the top and everything else at the bottom`
`04:49.07`	`ckknight`	`but for namespace methods, you can declare/call em however you choose`
`04:50.33`	`DoomGaze3`	`can globals called from outside code call my locals?`
`04:50.41`	`DoomGaze3`	`*my code`
`04:51.28`	`DoomGaze3`	`like, for example, I'm using marsmessageparser`
`04:51.51`	`DoomGaze3`	`and it takes a function name as an argument to call when a chat_msg appears`
`04:51.55`	`Rallion`	`There we go. Did it a slightly different way, but I got it working.`
`04:52.02`	`ckknight`	`no, locals are local to a scope`
`04:52.09`	`ckknight`	`i.e. the file`
`04:52.33`	`DoomGaze3`	`well, obviously mars can't call my globals. but can the function I pass it call my locals?`
`04:52.47`	`DoomGaze3`	`if they're in the same file?`
`04:53.10`	`DoomGaze3`	`goddamnit, I'm already confusing myself`
`04:53.34`	`DoomGaze3`	`**well, obviously mars can't call my locals. but can the global function I pass it call my locals?`
`04:53.46`	`DoomGaze3`	`there`
`04:53.54`	`DoomGaze3`	`:-P`
`04:54.19`	`DoomGaze3`	`know what I mean?`
`04:55.12`	`JoshBorke`	`if you have something like:`
`04:55.12`	`JoshBorke`	`function fooBar(globalFunction)`
`04:55.12`	`JoshBorke`	`local bob`
`04:55.12`	`JoshBorke`	`globalFunction(bob)`
`04:55.12`	`JoshBorke`	`end`
`04:55.19`	`JoshBorke`	`will work`
`04:56.22`	`JoshBorke`	`if that is what you mean :-)`
`04:56.35`	`DoomGaze3`	`in this case, I'm using another file with the message parser in it.`
`04:56.46`	`DoomGaze3`	`Message parser takes a function to call, which I define in my code.`
`04:57.02`	`JoshBorke`	`that function you give it must be global`
`04:57.15`	`JoshBorke`	`i think`
`04:57.26`	`JoshBorke`	`not sure though :-)`
`04:57.37`	`DoomGaze3`	`Can the function which I defined and passed call locals in my file?`
`04:58.01`	`JoshBorke`	`if the function is defined in the same file and the locals are defined before the function, then yes`
`04:58.38`	`DoomGaze3`	`kk`
`04:58.42`	`DoomGaze3`	`ty`
`04:59.12`	`Rallion`	`I wrote a nifty function that finds the x,y location of any point on a frame and used that to determine what to use for my anchor offsets`
`04:59.32`	`JoshBorke`	`Rallion: awesome :-)`
`05:00.59`	`Rallion`	`I call it a nifty function because it only has four conditional statements in it, even though it's probably actually slower than putting in all 9.`
`05:01.24`	`Rallion`	`for each anchor point, I mean`
`05:01.25`	`JoshBorke`	`no one will ever know ;-)`
`05:01.31`	`Rallion`	`hehe`
`05:01.45`	`DoomGaze3`	`except us. :)`
`05:01.47`	`JoshBorke`	`you can combine LEFT/TOPLEFT/BOTTOMLEFT for x etc`
`05:01.54`	`Cairenn`	`since when does FAQ = .exe?`
`05:02.15`	`Rallion`	`yeah, i have just four conditionals, but all of them include string.find...`
`05:02.22`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=MentalPo@host-70-45-82-92.onelinkpr.net)`
`05:02.25`	`JoshBorke`	`ew, don't do string.find... :-(`
`05:02.34`	`JoshBorke`	`well, i mean you can`
`05:02.42`	`MentalPower\|ZZzz`	`gnight folks`
`05:02.47`	`Cairenn`	`night MentalPower\|ZZzz`
`05:02.54`	`Rallion`	`I could do substrings instead`
`05:02.59`	`MentalPower\|ZZzz`	`night Cair`
`05:03.11`	`JoshBorke`	`straight up pointer comparisons would be faster though`
`05:03.44`	`Rallion`	`but that's not really an option`
`05:04.40`	`JoshBorke`	`i'll take your word for it :-) it's much too late for me :-)`
`05:04.43`	`JoshBorke`	`gn'giht folks`
`05:04.48`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r43h96.res.gatech.edu)`
`05:06.43`	`ckknight`	`DoomGaze3, locals are declared at compile time, also at that point, they lose their names, and just become local1, local2, etc. so there's no real way to access a local from outside of the scope just from that tidbit alone`
`05:10.53`	`Cairenn`	`night guys`
`05:12.05`	`Shadowed`	`hmmm`
`05:12.09`	`Shadowed`	`it appears that i have lost a frame`
`05:12.23`	`Shadowed`	`it's visible....and it wont show back on the screen`
`05:12.59`	`ckknight`	`setpoint?`
`05:13.19`	`Shadowed`	`doesn't work`
`05:14.40`	`ckknight`	`clearallpoints first`
`05:15.15`	`Shadowed`	`still didn't!`
`05:15.34`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tarog (n=rat@ip68-230-57-60.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`05:19.14`	`ckknight`	`:SetAlpha(1)`
`05:20.21`	`Shadowed`	`Height/Width are set, opacity is set to 1.0, text opacity is set to 1.0, IsVisible says it's visible, ClampedToScreen is also set. text is definintantly inside`
`05:20.22`	`Shadowed`	`and it wont show`
`05:21.05`	`ckknight`	`font set?`
`05:21.32`	`Shadowed`	`and now it decides to show again, doing nothing differently`
`05:21.33`	`Shadowed`	`...`
`05:25.41`	`Rallion`	`lovely`
`05:26.35`	`Rallion`	`wow I didn't know ClampedToScreen existed until you said that...nice.`
`05:26.43`	`Shadowed`	`was added in 1.11`
`05:29.28`	`Shadowed`	`sigh`
`05:29.42`	`Shadowed`	`now it's ignoring background color changes.....time to go to sleep apparently`
`05:40.50`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge AnduinLothar (n=KarlKFI@ip68-106-219-78.oc.oc.cox.net)`
`05:52.59`	`norganna`	`soooo`
`05:53.13`	`norganna`	`does anyone know if the patch will happen on Tuesday`
`05:53.49`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Andalia (n=xx@p54AD9F6B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`05:55.27`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tarog (n=rat@ip68-230-57-60.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`05:57.24`	`AnduinLothar`	`oh god i hope not`
`05:58.52`	`AnduinLothar`	`just got back from vacation :P need at least a week or two to write my comm lib`
`05:59.18`	`norganna`	`i can't wait for the new stuff...`
`05:59.23`	`DoomGaze3`	`MyTable = {}; table.getn(MyTable) == 0`
`05:59.49`	`DoomGaze3`	`true or false?`
`05:59.59`	`DoomGaze3`	`or nil?`
`06:00.06`	`AnduinLothar`	`true`
`06:00.09`	`DoomGaze3`	`ty`
`06:00.49`	`Shadowed`	`it's not coming out for another 2-3 weeks`
`06:00.58`	`Shadowed`	`it would be silly to release it now`
`06:01.15`	`DoomGaze3`	`what does your mod do shadowed?`
`06:01.37`	`DoomGaze3`	`if you're not asleep that is`
`06:01.43`	`AnduinLothar`	`:D got our projector in and hooked up to surround. time for mr & mrs smith`
`06:01.55`	`DoomGaze3`	`is that any good?`
`06:02.00`	`AnduinLothar`	`it's fun`
`06:02.13`	`DoomGaze3`	`Did you ever see Doom?`
`06:02.22`	`AnduinLothar`	`nah`
`06:02.25`	`DoomGaze3`	`it's fun too`
`06:03.23`	`DoomGaze3`	`What's your definition of fun? Mine is a movie that knows it's a bad movie so it pokes fun at itself.`
`06:03.56`	`AnduinLothar`	`mmm, this is an enjoyable movie with good effects and a pretty decent plot`
`06:04.17`	`DoomGaze3`	`did you see pirates 2?`
`06:04.40`	`AnduinLothar`	`ya, that was good, minus the cliff hanger`
`06:04.58`	`DoomGaze3`	`no shit!`
`06:04.59`	`AnduinLothar`	`lil more than fun, but not really great`
`06:05.14`	`DoomGaze3`	`I hate cliffhangers in movies`
`06:05.29`	`DoomGaze3`	`it's always the middle one that has the annoying cliffhanger too`
`06:05.47`	`DoomGaze3`	`every - single - trilogy.`
`06:05.51`	`DoomGaze3`	`except LOTR`
`06:05.59`	`DoomGaze3`	`Maybe`
`06:06.13`	`DoomGaze3`	`the Gollum monologue could be considered a cliffhanger`
`06:06.23`	`AnduinLothar`	`oi... 1k emails`
`06:06.36`	`DoomGaze3`	`datsa lotta email`
`06:06.39`	`AnduinLothar`	`oh ok, 85 left after spam filter`
`06:06.55`	`DoomGaze3`	`only 5 of which are legit`
`06:06.55`	`AnduinLothar`	`prolly mostly image spam that my filter ignores`
`06:13.31`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`06:17.31`	`AnduinLothar`	`mmmm 6 legit`
`06:17.34`	`AnduinLothar`	`close tho`
`06:17.40`	`DoomGaze3`	`lol`
`06:17.47`	`DoomGaze3`	`wow`
`06:17.55`	`DoomGaze3`	`I must be close to psychic`
`06:18.20`	`AnduinLothar`	`i see apple finally made their 3 button mouse wireless, been waiting for that`
`06:18.44`	`DoomGaze3`	`apple is really slow to accomodate obvious feature requests`
`06:18.56`	`AnduinLothar`	`aye, tends to be that way`
`06:19.05`	`DoomGaze3`	`it's like they want to milk people of their money first, then release an "enhanced version"`
`06:19.15`	`AnduinLothar`	`they either get it before everyone else or really late`
`06:19.39`	`DoomGaze3`	`ever seen Tomorrow Never Dies 007?`
`06:19.42`	`AnduinLothar`	`ya`
`06:20.16`	`DoomGaze3`	`Like in that movie:`
`06:20.18`	`DoomGaze3`	`Mr. Regent, how about our new software?`
`06:20.39`	`DoomGaze3`	`It's ready. As requested, it's full of bugs, so people will be forced to upgrade for years.`
`06:20.55`	`DoomGaze3`	`Outstanding.`
`06:20.56`	`AnduinLothar`	`pretty much`
`06:22.19`	`AnduinLothar`	`apple likes to haave their own schedule, at least they don't feel lik ethey're racing to catch up in a market someone else got to first. makes you at least THINK the product was well thought up`
`06:23.02`	`AnduinLothar`	`or at least debugged for a few months`
`06:23.25`	`AnduinLothar`	`never know how it actually works tho`
`06:23.32`	`AnduinLothar`	`could be artificial suspense`
`06:23.38`	`DoomGaze3`	`are you on an apple right now?`
`06:23.55`	`AnduinLothar`	`a 4 year old one, aye`
`06:23.58`	`DoomGaze3`	`Did you see the new Itunes API?`
`06:24.10`	`AnduinLothar`	`new in the last week?`
`06:24.13`	`DoomGaze3`	`ya`
`06:24.15`	`AnduinLothar`	`no`
`06:24.53`	`DoomGaze3`	`lemmie linky`
`06:25.25`	`DoomGaze3`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/1.12.0_API_changes_%28Iriel%29`
`06:25.59`	`AnduinLothar`	`oh, he gave me my requests, eh?`
`06:26.08`	`DoomGaze3`	`who?`
`06:26.12`	`AnduinLothar`	`slouken`
`06:26.25`	`DoomGaze3`	`and slouken is?`
`06:26.54`	`AnduinLothar`	`a lead dev at blizz who is very responsive on the ui forums`
`06:27.58`	`DoomGaze3`	`API doesn't look too useful... it looks like it only shuffles. No gettag or gettracklist functions`
`06:28.33`	`AnduinLothar`	`http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=417943&tmp=1#post417943`
`06:29.28`	`DoomGaze3`	`now we need an api for winamp or WMP`
`06:29.41`	`DoomGaze3`	`That'd be pimp`
`06:30.07`	`AnduinLothar`	`meh, itunes is cross platform, they aren't gonna add another player till 1.13 anyway`
`06:30.30`	`DoomGaze3`	`sez mac itunes only`
`06:31.06`	`AnduinLothar`	`aye, because scripting on windows is crap`
`06:31.17`	`DoomGaze3`	`where did you see they're gonna add another player?`
`06:31.23`	`AnduinLothar`	`can do it in applescript in like 1 line`
`06:32.14`	`AnduinLothar`	`they said they were considering pc alternatives, but it's a diff dev crew from the mac side and the mac people got it done first`
`06:32.36`	`AnduinLothar`	`so 1.12 is gonna be mac only and they'll see how it goes`
`06:33.58`	`DoomGaze3`	`huh. I wonder if it operates on a playlist or your whole library...`
`06:34.20`	`AnduinLothar`	`whatever's currently playing`
`06:34.52`	`Shadowed\|zzz`	`DoomGaze3: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4569`
`06:35.59`	`AnduinLothar`	`works well, but the options sucked`
`06:36.56`	`AnduinLothar`	`mmm, those api functions on the wiki page are not new`
`06:36.59`	`AnduinLothar`	`well`
`06:37.05`	`AnduinLothar`	`not in the past week anyway`
`06:37.27`	`DoomGaze3`	`sez 1.12`
`06:37.44`	`Shadowed\|zzz`	`Whats the function to change background color of a frame. SetBackdropColor?`
`06:37.46`	`AnduinLothar`	`right... i tested it before i went on vacation :P`
`06:42.30`	`DoomGaze3`	`It'd be nice if they had a hard coded frame to show the track name and such`
`06:42.55`	`Shadowed\|zzz`	`maybe the reason it wasn't working was because two frames had the same name!`
`06:43.21`	`Shadowed\|zzz`	`must get this working first`
`06:43.23`	`Shadowed\|zzz`	`then sleep`
`07:04.11`	`Shadowed\|zzz`	`battleground lag is fairly annoying :/`
`07:04.24`	`Shadowed\|zzz`	`Takes over a minute for it to fire the correct events, pain in the ass to test anything`
`07:05.28`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge s\|loup (n=loup@exch01.berlinheart.de)`
`07:05.34`	`s\|loup`	`hi`
`07:12.02`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Priam (n=vnabet@pc.yacast.fr)`
`07:16.36`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge krka\|work (n=kristofe@66.217.181.62.in-addr.dgcsystems.net)`
`07:23.18`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Bleeter (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`07:25.56`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl)`
`07:40.22`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower\|ZZzz (n=MentalPo@host-70-45-82-92.onelinkpr.net)`
`07:48.53`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com)`
`08:14.06`	`DoomGaze3`	`sup`
`08:15.24`	`AnduinLothar`	`one bug down`
`08:15.43`	`AnduinLothar`	`marvelously more helpful when people actually give you the whole bug`
`08:16.21`	`AnduinLothar`	`course, they were giving me all they had, but there was a bug in the error printing too...`
`08:30.53`	`DoomGaze3`	`does table.insert return anything?`
`08:32.37`	`AnduinLothar`	`not afaik....`
`08:32.46`	`DoomGaze3`	`k`
`08:50.16`	`AnduinLothar`	`am I being hard on this guy or does he really deserve to be ass raped with a bloody penguin club? http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4471#cmnt10830`
`08:50.26`	`DoomGaze3`	`checking...`
`08:52.07`	`DoomGaze3`	`what a flipflopping monkey turd`
`08:52.14`	`AnduinLothar`	`thx`
`08:52.21`	`DoomGaze3`	`yw`
`08:53.53`	`AnduinLothar`	`i just dont understand how he can even ask that`
`08:54.23`	`AnduinLothar`	`i can even understand not wanting to use cosmos for some previously poor experience...`
`08:54.47`	`AnduinLothar`	`and i'm fairly forgiving for people that want more clarification about deps`
`08:55.07`	`AnduinLothar`	`but he just can't even seem to read the fucking page before he posts..`
`08:55.35`	`AnduinLothar`	`not to mention even remotely looking at other posts where my signiture is planely vissible on the top post..`
`08:55.39`	`DoomGaze3`	`at the risk of offending you myself, he might be new and/or harboring feelings about the old Cosmos-feature-creep days`
`08:56.13`	`DoomGaze3`	`yeah, that too. :P`
`08:56.44`	`AnduinLothar`	`i don't mind him not wanting to use cosmos. there are plenty of people that feal the same way... but the blatent disregard and disrespect....`
`08:57.02`	`DoomGaze3`	`I don't see why he felt the need to put that in his post`
`08:57.09`	`MoonWolf`	`bloody penguin club sounds good`
`08:57.51`	`DoomGaze3`	`Seen Jarhead?`
`08:58.10`	`AnduinLothar`	`nope`
`08:58.13`	`DoomGaze3`	`this is a pretty good flick`
`08:58.55`	`AnduinLothar`	`all i remember of it is that they used kanye west's "Jesus Walks" in the trailer`
`08:59.25`	`AnduinLothar`	`is it about a specific war?`
`09:00.04`	`DoomGaze3`	`ya. Operation Desert Shield`
`09:01.44`	`DoomGaze3`	`jesus. looks more like hell`
`09:02.25`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Mery (i=metelman@p54AEE3A0.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`09:03.14`	`DoomGaze3`	`PTSS rears it's ugly head`
`09:03.48`	`AnduinLothar`	`so why does it take like 30+ downloads for someone to tell me that it doesn't work standalone...`
`09:04.15`	`DoomGaze3`	`me personally, I just assume someone else said something`
`09:04.28`	`AnduinLothar`	`what, the first 39 people had the same addons running that i did and it worked fine?`
`09:04.38`	`AnduinLothar`	`29*`
`09:04.52`	`DoomGaze3`	`you'd probably be much better off telling someone here to test it for you`
`09:05.20`	`AnduinLothar`	`gah`
`09:05.21`	`AnduinLothar`	Error: attempt to perform arithmetic on local `money' (a nil value)
`09:05.21`	`AnduinLothar`	`File: Interface\FrameXML\MoneyFrame.lua`
`09:05.21`	`AnduinLothar`	`Line: 185`
`09:05.21`	`AnduinLothar`	`Count: 1`
`09:05.24`	`AnduinLothar`	`where....`
`09:05.31`	`AnduinLothar`	`i didn't do it..`
`09:05.45`	`MoonWolf`	`someone is.`
`09:05.49`	`AnduinLothar`	`i just dissabled Sea.... why did that break it..`
`09:05.49`	`MoonWolf`	`what did you change last ?`
`09:06.00`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tarog (n=rat@ip68-230-57-60.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`09:06.04`	`AnduinLothar`	`something must have an optional dep or something`
`09:06.14`	`MoonWolf`	`here comes the hunt for the rogue addon.`
`09:06.24`	`AnduinLothar`	`gah... need me a stack trace`
`09:06.24`	`kergoth`	`the rogue addon?`
`09:06.41`	`AnduinLothar`	`and no RogueHelper is dissabled`
`09:07.11`	`MoonWolf`	`hehe`
`09:07.38`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge _Valgrind (n=bortas@c-bb0d70d5.09-31-6c6b7010.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`09:07.48`	`AnduinLothar`	`oi... why do 12 million things call MoneyFrame_Update`
`09:08.07`	`AnduinLothar`	`and none of them are enabled`
`09:09.12`	`wereHamster`	`I have a texture, 512x64 with a ~380 pixels wide black block. I have a frame, parent is WorldFrame with a scale of '1', this frame has a background texture object with the said texture. If I make a screenshot, the black block is 450px wide?? How do I make a pixel-perfect texture?`
`09:09.23`	`DoomGaze3`	`me shivers.`
`09:09.45`	`DoomGaze3`	`my addon is nearly ready for it's proof-of-concept milestone`
`09:10.02`	`zenzelezz`	`don't textures have to be square?`
`09:10.07`	`AnduinLothar`	`nah`
`09:10.14`	`AnduinLothar`	`just squares of 2`
`09:10.16`	`wereHamster`	`only pot`
`09:11.08`	`zenzelezz`	`what resolution are you running though?`
`09:11.16`	`wereHamster`	`1280x1024`
`09:11.30`	`AnduinLothar`	`WorldFrame:GetScale() ?`
`09:11.30`	`wereHamster`	`seems like setting the scale to 0.74 'fixes' it`
`09:11.54`	`AnduinLothar`	`frame:GetEffectiveScale()`
`09:12.44`	`wereHamster`	`1`
`09:13.10`	`AnduinLothar`	`i just got back, haven't even unpacked and i'm fricking debugging addons.. I'm a hopeless addict.. what the hell am i doing...`
`09:13.38`	`AnduinLothar`	`~lart me`
`09:14.30`	`AnduinLothar`	`O.o ArcanePartyBars... with Sea dissabled... causes my error..`
`09:14.36`	`AnduinLothar`	`i didn't even do anything..`
`09:14.41`	`AnduinLothar`	`zomg`
`09:14.44`	`AnduinLothar`	`yes i did`
`09:16.21`	`AnduinLothar`	`gah SeaSpellbook`
`09:16.26`	`AnduinLothar`	`owned me`
`09:16.32`	`AnduinLothar`	`good, i can blame someone else`
`09:21.42`	`AnduinLothar`	`wow... it fails at beingh embeddable`
`09:28.28`	`DoomGaze3`	`is there a function to get the gender of a player?`
`09:29.40`	`DoomGaze3`	`not a joke`
`09:29.48`	`wereHamster`	`UnitSex() ?`
`09:29.52`	`Mery`	`ONLY OF THE CHARACTER`
`09:29.56`	`Mery`	`sorry caps*`
`09:30.27`	`DoomGaze3`	`unit sex should do it. :)`
`09:30.49`	`wereHamster`	`WoW doesn't like 2048x2048 textures :(`
`09:43.29`	`DoomGaze3`	`that's an assload of memory...`
`09:44.57`	`wereHamster`	`http://dbservice.com/ftpdir/tom/texture.png - a 512x512 texture on a 1280x1024 display ...`
`09:46.01`	`DoomGaze3`	`are there any good lua code obfuscators around?`
`09:47.03`	`DoomGaze3`	`wtf`
`09:47.05`	`DoomGaze3`	`nice`
`09:48.36`	`DoomGaze3`	`you could try the ut trick to fix that`
`09:48.46`	`krka`	`why do you want to obfuscate?`
`09:49.39`	`DoomGaze3`	`well, I was just thinking out loud. My next mod after this is going to be WoWopoly. I want to obfuscate my code so that it makes it more difficult to hook for anyone who might want to hack my mod in order to cheat.`
`09:49.54`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Mikk (i=bofh@81-233-236-26-no19.tbcn.telia.com)`
`09:50.08`	`wereHamster`	`ut trick?`
`09:50.17`	`DoomGaze3`	`ya. Ever played the original ut?`
`09:50.20`	`krka`	`uhm... won't work, they can just make their own client`
`09:50.20`	`AnduinLothar`	`makign a good code obfuscator is hard enough`
`09:50.32`	`wereHamster`	`no`
`09:50.45`	`AnduinLothar`	`might want encripted messages too`
`09:51.08`	`DoomGaze3`	`in the original ut, there was this map called facing worlds. It was a huge CTF map that orbited earth.`
`09:51.14`	`krka`	`what about this? http://luadec.luaforge.net/`
`09:51.21`	`krka`	`could compile and then decompile it`
`09:51.37`	`DoomGaze3`	`Unfotunately, the texture was too detailed.`
`09:51.56`	`DoomGaze3`	`So they split it up in to four parts and stitched it together to overcome ut's texture size limit`
`09:52.03`	`AnduinLothar`	`in ut2k3 too, no?`
`09:52.07`	`DoomGaze3`	`you might want to try something similar`
`09:52.22`	`DoomGaze3`	`ut2k3-5 don't have that same limitation.`
`09:52.25`	`zenzelezz`	`the UT2003/4 one(s) were remakes though`
`09:52.34`	`AnduinLothar`	`ah`
`09:53.18`	`AnduinLothar`	`there's something seriously rong with me..`
`09:53.28`	`DoomGaze3`	`y?`
`09:53.34`	`AnduinLothar`	`i just rewrote an embeddable lib i was using`
`09:53.45`	`AnduinLothar`	`it's not even mine`
`09:53.53`	`DoomGaze3`	`heh`
`09:54.12`	`AnduinLothar`	`yay, no error!`
`09:54.20`	`DoomGaze3`	`love that code. let it squirt it's ASCII juices all over you!`
`09:54.25`	`DoomGaze3`	`embrace the horror!`
`09:54.32`	`wereHamster`	`I just want a pixel-perfect texture`
`09:56.01`	`wereHamster`	`loading a 512x512px texture and setting a scale of 0.748538012, makes the texture 510x513px big`
`09:59.33`	`DoomGaze3`	`where are you getting those values? 510x513`
`10:03.48`	`wereHamster`	`my fault, the texture was 511x511 ..`
`10:03.59`	`wereHamster`	`WoW scales all textures with 1/0.75`
`10:04.29`	`DoomGaze3`	`Depends on the UI scale value, I'd imagine.`
`10:05.12`	`wereHamster`	`no, parent is WorldFrame, not UIParent`
`10:06.44`	`DoomGaze3`	`I got nuthin.`
`10:07.48`	`AnduinLothar`	`um`
`10:07.53`	`AnduinLothar`	`no parent is no parent..`
`10:15.11`	`DoomGaze3`	`how do I strip an item link?`
`10:15.46`	`DoomGaze3`	`so I just have item:12345:0:0:12341234`
`10:26.14`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tarog (n=rat@ip68-230-57-60.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`10:42.58`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@88.134.64.68)`
`11:02.21`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`11:05.25`	`Kirkburn`	`Anyone know what "waiting for tag" might mean in the field of domain transfers?`
`11:07.47`	`Mikk`	`sounds like a handoff between two DNS hosts`
`11:08.32`	`Mikk`	`DNS hosting companies that is`
`11:08.39`	`zenzelezz`	`tag, you host this now!`
`11:08.43`	`Mikk`	`kinda =)`
`11:15.45`	`Kirkburn`	`What the hell? Aeus just said he think TBC will be released on "November 31st"`
`11:15.53`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Mikk (i=bofh@81-233-236-26-no19.tbcn.telia.com)`
`11:16.10`	`Kirkburn`	`Problem being, of course, he's not supposed to be saying anything`
`11:16.29`	`zenzelezz`	`not that November only has 30 days?`
`11:16.41`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh yeah, I just realised that too =)`
`11:16.41`	`DoomGaze3`	`how do I keep my i around after a for loop?`
`11:16.55`	`zenzelezz`	`declare it outside the loop?`
`11:17.01`	`DoomGaze3`	`rgr`
`11:20.17`	`DoomGaze3`	`true or false: nil.."string" == "string"`
`11:20.39`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge quoin (n=quoin@220-245-175-253-sa-pppoe.tpgi.com.au)`
`11:20.58`	`DoomGaze3`	`anyone?`
`11:21.08`	`Corrodias`	`i'm anyone!`
`11:21.12`	`DoomGaze3`	`hey!`
`11:21.16`	`DoomGaze3`	`true or false: nil.."string" == "string"`
`11:21.33`	`wereHamster`	`that will give an error`
`11:21.39`	`Corrodias`	`i'd think true... if you can concatenate a string with nil`
`11:21.43`	`wereHamster`	`concatenating nil and a string`
`11:22.00`	`wereHamster`	`(nil or "").."string" == "string" <= true`
`11:22.01`	`Corrodias`	`who or what is aeus and what is TBC?`
`11:22.22`	`Kirkburn`	`Corrodias, are you serious?`
`11:22.56`	`Kirkburn`	`Aeus is an EU CM, and TBC is that big thing called an expansion`
`11:22.58`	`Corrodias`	`in that case, you must mean "the burning crusade", but i still have no idea what aeus is`
`11:23.40`	`wereHamster`	`CM == "Community Manager" ?`
`11:23.48`	`DoomGaze3`	`"(nil or "").."string" == "string" <= true" <--- how's this work?`
`11:23.49`	`Kirkburn`	`yep`
`11:24.09`	`DoomGaze3`	`wouldn't (nil or "") return a boolean?`
`11:24.36`	`wereHamster`	`"<= true" meant "this evaluates to 'true'"`
`11:24.57`	`DoomGaze3`	`I meant the nil or ""`
`11:25.01`	`wereHamster`	`(nil or "") returns "" .. I'm stupid`
`11:25.03`	`Legorol`	`technically, Aeus is a Community Representative`
`11:25.07`	`zenzelezz`	`I was tempted to make a joke about how something would be "less than or equal to true"`
`11:25.34`	`Legorol`	`for a detailed description of the members of the EU English Community Team, read http://beta.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13811406&sid=1`
`11:25.38`	`wereHamster`	`less than true but still more than false :P`
`11:25.54`	`DoomGaze3`	`hold up a sec... Here's what I'm trying to do...`
`11:26.04`	`DoomGaze3`	`local playerSentence, i;`
`11:26.04`	`DoomGaze3`	`for i = 1, numWinners - 2, 1 do`
`11:26.04`	`DoomGaze3`	`playerSentence = playerSentence..auctionWinners[i]..", ";`
`11:26.05`	`DoomGaze3`	`end`
`11:26.05`	`DoomGaze3`	`return playerSentence..auctionWinners[i+1].." and "..auctionWinners[i+2]`
`11:26.07`	`Legorol`	`if the values "false" and "true" are enumerated, it does make sense to do a less than or equal to true`
`11:26.41`	`Corrodias`	`you need to initialize playerSentence as "", rather than as nil, as you have there.`
`11:26.49`	`Legorol`	`DoomGaze3, replace this line:`
`11:26.58`	`Legorol`	`local playerSentence, i;`
`11:27.00`	`Legorol`	`with this line:`
`11:27.04`	`Legorol`	`local playerSentence = "";`
`11:27.18`	`Legorol`	`you don't need to explicitly declare i as a local variable, that's taken care of by the for statement`
`11:27.34`	`DoomGaze3`	`I need the i so I can finish the string`
`11:27.35`	`wereHamster`	`he needs it outside of the loop ;)`
`11:27.39`	`Legorol`	`ah`
`11:27.40`	`DoomGaze3`	`:)`
`11:27.48`	`wereHamster`	`local playerSentence, i = "";`
`11:27.51`	`Legorol`	`that won't work then`
`11:27.57`	`Kirkburn`	`Legorol, you're too picky ... bah, I'll call Aeus a CR then :)`
`11:27.59`	`Legorol`	`the for statement will declare an inner copy`
`11:28.09`	`Legorol`	`you won't have access to i outside the for loop`
`11:28.23`	`DoomGaze3`	`then how do I keep it?`
`11:28.25`	`DoomGaze3`	`I need it`
`11:28.40`	`Legorol`	`unfortunately, all you can do is something like:`
`11:28.42`	`Legorol`	`local j;`
`11:28.50`	`Legorol`	`for i=1,10 do ... j=i; ... end`
`11:28.54`	`DoomGaze3`	`kk`
`11:28.54`	`Legorol`	`.. use j ..`
`11:29.08`	`wereHamster`	`can't you use 'numWinners - 1' instead of 'i' ?`
`11:29.14`	`Legorol`	`yeah i was just about to say that`
`11:29.32`	`Legorol`	`since your for loop goes between fixed values,`
`11:29.37`	`Legorol`	`why do you need i outside the loop`
`11:29.55`	`DoomGaze3`	`I'm building a list of people usable in a sentence`
`11:30.07`	`DoomGaze3`	`Tom, Dick and Harry`
`11:30.45`	`Legorol`	`yeah but the point is, you know what the value of i is when the for loop finishes`
`11:30.53`	`Legorol`	`it is exactly numWinners - 1`
`11:31.06`	`Legorol`	`so you don't need to use i outside the loop`
`11:31.18`	`DoomGaze3`	`ic`
`11:31.56`	`DoomGaze3`	`I really should be asleep by now`
`11:32.03`	`DoomGaze3`	`but you guys still rock`
`11:32.09`	`Legorol`	`no, i am paper`
`11:32.14`	`Legorol`	`and sometimes scissors`
`11:32.22`	`DoomGaze3`	`who's really scissors?`
`11:32.31`	`Legorol`	`dunno`
`11:32.39`	`DoomGaze3`	`o rly?`
`11:32.40`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (i=andrew@124.197.25.58)`
`11:32.47`	`Legorol`	`yes really`
`11:32.56`	`DoomGaze3`	`:DD`
`11:33.12`	`Legorol`	`i'm not falling for your even plan to make me say yarly`
`11:33.17`	`zespri`	`I'm going freaking blow up my damned pc. nothing seems to work`
`11:33.18`	`Legorol`	`d'oh, i just said it`
`11:33.26`	`Legorol`	`hehe, zenzelezz`
`11:33.28`	`Legorol`	`oops`
`11:33.30`	`Legorol`	`i meant zespri`
`11:33.35`	`DoomGaze3`	`roflcopter`
`11:33.54`	`Legorol`	`take your pick`
`11:34.04`	`zespri`	`c-4 would do`
`11:35.00`	`zespri`	`first my fps is below the floor, second the sound in wow is like from toilet and third 4 times out of 5 the pc just doesn't start`
`11:35.17`	`DoomGaze3`	`scan for spyware and viruses?`
`11:36.05`	`Legorol`	`zespri: sounds like hardware..`
`11:36.08`	`wereHamster`	`is there a frame that all party frames are children of? SO I could hide just this one frame?`
`11:36.11`	`Legorol`	`do you have a spare video card?`
`11:36.24`	`Legorol`	`wereHamster: UIParent :P`
`11:36.24`	`zespri`	`yes bu they suck`
`11:36.41`	`Legorol`	`i'd give the spare card a go`
`11:36.45`	`DoomGaze3`	`how about rootkits?`
`11:36.50`	`Legorol`	`that'd at least eliminate that as the source of your problem`
`11:36.53`	`wereHamster`	`I'm designing a complete UI, but UIParent is a bit too much,,`
`11:36.56`	`Legorol`	`when you say it "doesn't start"`
`11:36.59`	`DoomGaze3`	`check for those? I found a couple on my compy a few weeks ago`
`11:37.00`	`Legorol`	`do you mean no power, or crashes on boot`
`11:37.10`	`Legorol`	`rootkit is irrelevant if the PC doesn't power on ;-)`
`11:37.23`	`Legorol`	`besides, i bet zespri is using Linux`
`11:37.54`	`Legorol`	`i'm never failed to be amazed how computer literate people (and not dummies) who know what a rootkit is, still manage to get them`
`11:38.11`	`DoomGaze3`	`zespri: http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail118.html`
`11:38.51`	`zespri`	`When I say doesn't start it means that it displays bios welcome screen for a fraction of second and powers off immideately`
`11:39.06`	`DoomGaze3`	`any post codes?`
`11:39.07`	`zespri`	`whithout prociding to boot or anything`
`11:39.17`	`Legorol`	`ROFL DoomGaze3`
`11:39.25`	`zespri`	`it just shuts down. it doesn't beep a error`
`11:39.43`	`DoomGaze3`	`Legorol: Hilarious isn't it?`
`11:39.50`	`zespri`	`mobo or power supply is faulty I guess`
`11:39.54`	`Corrodias`	`YOUR MOM`
`11:40.37`	`Corrodias`	`i've only ever seen two viruses, i think. one was from an old DooM shareware diskette some ten years ago`
`11:40.55`	`Corrodias`	`the other was from an email (i didn't let it infect me) that my scanner caught while i was making backups of my inbox or something in outlook`
`11:40.59`	`Corrodias`	`that was also long ago`
`11:41.36`	`paranoid_`	`yeah for all the media whoreage, you get quite few viruses`
`11:41.38`	`Corrodias`	`ah, correction: just last year, i think, i ran into a very simple trojan`
`11:42.12`	`Corrodias`	`of course, i see viruses on -other- people's computers pretty often. i cleaned about four in my dorm wing in my first year at college, i think`
`11:42.42`	`Corrodias`	`the ol' blaster worm, or something like it`
`11:42.55`	`DoomGaze3`	`only four? BTW, I count spyware as malware, and therefore a virus.`
`11:43.12`	`DoomGaze3`	`blaster was fun, btw`
`11:43.18`	`Corrodias`	`yes, well, it's not like i went -looking- for things to do`
`11:43.41`	`DoomGaze3`	`Me and a friend of mine injected into each others computer and screwed around all night one night`
`11:44.02`	`Corrodias`	`gaaaay...`
`11:46.30`	`paranoid_`	`good ole dcom`
`11:49.21`	`DoomGaze3`	`my addon is rapidly approaching 700 lines of code in one file`
`11:49.53`	`DoomGaze3`	`did I mention that item bidding is logistical hell?`
`11:52.08`	`Corrodias`	`did i mention that porn is fantastic?`
`11:52.20`	`Corrodias`	`i mean, i'm sure you've got a point, but wow.`
`11:53.08`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Andalia (n=xx@p54AD9F6B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`11:57.39`	`Corrodias`	`i also love classical music, even at the same time.`
`11:57.51`	`DoomGaze3`	`this is my first mod, and I never thought it would be as complicated as it turned out to be`
`11:58.52`	`zenzelezz`	`things are always more complicated than you think they will be`
`11:59.19`	`DoomGaze3`	`as I stated earlier tho, you guys kick ass. There's no way I'd have gotten this anywhere near done if I hadn't come in here.`
`12:00.28`	`Corrodias`	`harpsichord > piano`
`12:00.36`	`DoomGaze3`	`false`
`12:02.21`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge zespri (i=andrew@202.180.72.39)`
`12:03.00`	`Corrodias`	`it can't be false! i've hardcoded it to be true`
`12:04.08`	`DoomGaze3`	`piano = infinity+1`
`12:05.59`	`Corrodias`	`but it sounds like music from GAUNTLET!`
`12:06.17`	`Corrodias`	`J.S. Bach - Concerto for Harpsichord, Strings and Basso Continuo, in D Minor, WV1052`
`12:06.21`	`DoomGaze3`	`Diablo > Gauntlet`
`12:06.53`	`DoomGaze3`	`therefore lute > piano > harpsicord`
`12:07.23`	`DoomGaze3`	`likewise, lute = infinity + 2`
`12:07.38`	`DoomGaze3`	`math ftw`
`12:11.57`	`DoomGaze3`	`...`
`12:12.01`	`DoomGaze3`	`I thought it was funny`
`12:12.10`	`Corrodias`	`i've run out of things to say`
`12:13.13`	`Corrodias`	`http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1154346290420.gif`
`12:13.13`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge esp\|Syn (n=ben@comsecgb.plus.com)`
`12:13.55`	`Elkano`	`fake... that doesn't look /b/ at all... ;)`
`12:14.27`	`Corrodias`	`it's a wallpaper thread. the thread is nsfw, but that image isn't.`
`12:14.49`	`DoomGaze3`	`unless it's animated and it has like a 10 minute timer on it`
`12:14.49`	`Corrodias`	`oh, jeez. http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1154342097087.jpg`
`12:14.55`	`Corrodias`	`shh >_>`
`12:15.06`	`Corrodias`	`btards aren't clever enough for that`
`12:17.24`	`Kirkburn`	`Is the second one real?`
`12:17.45`	`Corrodias`	`no idea`
`12:19.31`	`Corrodias`	`i'm not sure what all this is, but it looks pretty artistic: http://img.4chan.org/b/res/11024078.html`
`12:19.53`	`zenzelezz`	`what's the b category?`
`12:20.21`	`Corrodias`	`"random". anything that isn't illegal.`
`12:20.36`	`Corrodias`	`and things that are illegal for a few minutes until a mod gets to them. eyeroll`
`12:24.04`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Mikk (i=bofh@81-233-236-26-no19.tbcn.telia.com)`
`12:27.53`	`Corrodias`	`here's a fun excercise! go have a dentist put fillings into your teeth. Then, snap the tab off of a can of soda and chew on it!`
`12:28.14`	`Corrodias`	`IT'S HOURS OF FUN. I GAURANTEE IT!`
`12:28.39`	*** join/#wowi-lounge ag` (n=Andreas@0x535cbbaa.bynxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk)
`12:29.37`	`MoonWolf`	`Corrodias, what part of dont eat and hard stuff for a few hours/day didn't you understand ?`
`12:30.16`	`Corrodias`	`nah, i haven't had any new fillings put in for years. i'm just saying. do it.`
`12:30.52`	`MoonWolf`	`right`
`12:31.25`	`Legorol`	`Watching video whilst WoW character is on Gryphon = in-flight entertainment`
`12:34.11`	`Mikk`	`o. lego.`
`12:34.23`	`Mikk`	`damn. there was something i was going to tell/ask you`
`12:34.27`	`Mikk`	`i've forgotten now :-(`
`12:34.59`	`Legorol`	`i read a memo from you with regards to quick menus on the wiki`
`12:35.05`	`Legorol`	`does it have anything to do with that?`
`12:35.41`	`Mikk`	`i don't even remember writing that. was i old? =)`
`12:35.45`	`Mikk`	`it*`
`12:35.46`	`Legorol`	`6 days or so`
`12:35.51`	`Legorol`	`i'd been gone for over a week, so..`
`12:36.39`	`Legorol`	`you were saying that the quick menu on API pages is now the same as the main menu`
`12:36.41`	`Legorol`	`or some such`
`12:37.02`	`Legorol`	`i just looked, and it looks nice`
`12:38.28`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r43h96.res.gatech.edu)`
`12:38.35`	`JoshBorke`	`morning`
`12:49.53`	`Kirkburn`	`Ach, goddammit - transferring domains is more expensive and arduous than I thought :/`
`12:50.15`	`Corrodias`	`expensive? it doesn't seem like it should take very much effort!`
`12:50.38`	`Kirkburn`	`I thought it was a simple "tick this box" ... apparently not - I have to send a form to my previous provider, get stuff signed (possibly by my mum, who is on holiday), and then pay £30`
`12:50.59`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh, and pay for the address again`
`12:51.53`	`Corrodias`	`well... your old provider is charging you $30 to release the domain?`
`12:52.28`	`Corrodias`	`or.. 30 something`
`12:52.31`	`Corrodias`	`my client doesn't have unicode support yet`
`12:52.43`	`Kirkburn`	`"Please note that since May 19, 2003 any change of domain owner has to be`
`12:52.43`	`Kirkburn`	`made directly with NOMINET. A charge of £30 plus VAT is due during the`
`12:52.43`	`Kirkburn`	`transfer of the domain name and has to be paid directly to NOMINET. Please`
`12:52.43`	`Kirkburn`	`do request the transfer form per e-mail from NOMINET which will then be`
`12:52.43`	`Kirkburn`	`sent to you per mail, together with necessary information procedure. Both`
`12:52.43`	`Kirkburn`	`the Transferor and Transferee must send signed confirmatory letters`
`12:52.45`	`Kirkburn`	`agreeing to the transfer of the domain name on their headed paper."`
`12:52.50`	`Kirkburn`	`(grr, sorry)`
`12:53.11`	`Mikk`	`Er`
`12:53.13`	`Mikk`	`That's bull`
`12:53.18`	`Corrodias`	`who is nominet?`
`12:53.38`	`Mikk`	`Just go to a different registrar and tell them that the previous registrar is being an ass`
`12:53.51`	`Mikk`	`pop previous registrar no longer has the registration`
`12:54.01`	`Kirkburn`	`"Nominet is the internet registry for`
`12:54.01`	`Kirkburn`	`<PROTECTED>`
`12:54.01`	`Kirkburn`	`.uk domain names."`
`12:54.11`	`Mikk`	`_THE_ registry?`
`12:54.13`	`Kirkburn`	`(oh for god's sake, bloody ctrl+c)`
`12:54.17`	`Kirkburn`	`Yes`
`12:54.21`	`Mikk`	`grats then`
`12:54.23`	`Mikk`	`>.<`
`12:54.25`	`Corrodias`	`the UK is a messed-up place, Mikk`
`12:54.41`	`Kirkburn`	`Heh`
`12:54.53`	`Corrodias`	`as i understand, it is mandatory for their ISP's to subscribe to some kind of web site blacklist in 2007.`
`12:54.56`	`Kirkburn`	`The address I'm transferring is a .co.uk, so I have no choice`
`12:55.23`	`Kirkburn`	`Quite possibly true, but it's for blocking child pornography, Corrodias`
`12:55.48`	`Corrodias`	`true. the problem is that includes anywhere that it could possibly be posted for any length of time, such as anywhere that allows users to post anything.`
`12:55.51`	`Corrodias`	`that includes /b/`
`12:55.55`	`Corrodias`	`which is already on the list`
`12:56.57`	`Kirkburn`	`http://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Censor/mandatoryblocking.html`
`12:57.07`	`Kirkburn`	`oops, wrong country`
`12:57.14`	`Corrodias`	`i suppose they expect sites to require moderators to preapprove all posts`
`12:57.56`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@24.129.136.26)`
`12:57.57`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ`
`12:57.58`	`Corrodias`	`and x-rated material... lmao, australia gets no more porn`
`12:58.04`	`Kirkburn`	`Are you sure about this blacklist - I don't see anything about it`
`12:58.20`	`Corrodias`	`hold up, there's a thread on a 4chan discussion board about it right now`
`12:58.36`	`Kirkburn`	`Australia has a maddeningly conservative and hypocritic government`
`12:59.01`	`Corrodias`	`http://dis.4chan.org/read/img/1150410623`
`12:59.10`	`Kirkburn`	`Although, singapore manages to beat it on the conservatism front, seeing as Sex in the City was banned until about 2 years ago`
`12:59.47`	`Kirkburn`	`Ah - it's not mandatory`
`13:00.06`	`Kirkburn`	`Certainly, my ISP isn't part of it`
`13:00.09`	`Corrodias`	`oh, that's good to know`
`13:01.01`	`Kirkburn`	`And the UK isn't a "hell-hole police state" despite what some may want to believe`
`13:01.02`	`Corrodias`	`i caught the impression that it will be`
`13:01.03`	`wereHamster`	`what's BT/NTL?`
`13:01.07`	`Corrodias`	`some big ISP`
`13:01.11`	`Kirkburn`	`BT is British Telecom`
`13:01.40`	`Kirkburn`	`Used to control all the phone lines`
`13:01.47`	`Kirkburn`	`NTL is a cable company ... and both are now ISPs`
`13:01.53`	`Corrodias`	`"ALL UK ISPs are going to be forced to implement IWF's "cleanfeed", probably by the end of 2007. Changing ISPs therefore won't help for long.`
`13:01.54`	`Corrodias`	`See this Commons answer (under "Child Pornography") :`
`13:01.54`	`Corrodias`	`http//www.publications.parliam/..."`
`13:02.13`	`Corrodias`	`http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/cm060619/debtext/60619-0540.htm#column_1052`
`13:03.26`	`Kirkburn`	`It doesn't say it's mandatory though`
`13:03.44`	`Kirkburn`	`Nor that it has to be that scheme`
`13:03.48`	`Corrodias`	`perhaps not. i haven't read it. i'm just pasting the post that gave me the impression that it is.`
`13:04.16`	`Kirkburn`	`It can be read as being mandatory, but it's not quite, nor does it mean that it has to use that list of blocked sites`
`13:06.48`	`Kirkburn`	`Anyway, to be perfectly honest, if a certain board is well known for hosting (albeit briefly) child porn, then it should really be blocked until it's prevented from occurig`
`13:08.46`	`Kirkburn`	`Most of the reponses on there look like typical thought-less replies anyway "look, they didn't block this site! It's obviously pointless!"`
`13:08.55`	`Corrodias`	`do you feel that way about any other content besides CP? such as the australian one that mentions "violent" and "x-rated" things?`
`13:10.47`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Mikk (i=bofh@81-233-236-26-no19.tbcn.telia.com)`
`13:11.05`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Mikk (i=bofh@81-233-236-26-no19.tbcn.telia.com)`
`13:11.18`	`Kirkburn`	`CP is illegal in this country, though`
`13:11.50`	`Corrodias`	`well, that doesn't answer my question, although i can see why that could influence your decision`
`13:11.59`	`Kirkburn`	`Australian censorship goes to an extreme though - for example games rated above 15 are banned from sale`
`13:12.52`	`Kirkburn`	`I see what your point is, though`
`13:13.04`	`Corrodias`	`now, go slow, i didn't really have a point, yet`
`13:13.07`	`Corrodias`	`i'm just curious`
`13:13.39`	`Corrodias`	`do you think things like violent images or such should be blocked as well?`
`13:14.21`	`Kirkburn`	`Hrm`
`13:15.14`	`Kirkburn`	`That's a difficult question to answer`
`13:15.24`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge dao_at_work (n=keith@cetus.palisadesys.com)`
`13:16.01`	`Kirkburn`	`In simplest terms, yes, unless it has good reason to exist (for example, to deter people from doing the same thing)`
`13:16.10`	`Industrial`	`I dont think anything should be blocked`
`13:16.16`	`Kirkburn`	`But of course, at what point do you draw the line`
`13:16.17`	`Rallion`	`the most violent images I see are usually on television news...`
`13:16.26`	`Industrial`	`Dont get me wrong about CP or whatever by the way;`
`13:16.47`	`Industrial`	`I think nothing should be blocked and more people should be put to trial and more sites should be taken down`
`13:16.59`	`Kirkburn`	`The problem with CP is that by allowing it to exist legally, it means it will occur more often`
`13:17.13`	`Industrial`	`No, you wont allow it you just dont block it`
`13:17.27`	`Industrial`	`So it can be pointed out more easily and by more people`
`13:17.29`	`Kirkburn`	`The UK can't take sites from other countries to court though`
`13:17.47`	`Corrodias`	`i think he's saying, rather than filter sites that are in compliance with the law but have the occasional, uncontrollable CP image pop up for a short time, just let that go and watch to make sure it stays legal.`
`13:17.54`	`Kirkburn`	`Only if we had a sort of world government might it be possible`
`13:17.55`	`Industrial`	`Yes but I dont see why countries cant work together on this`
`13:18.05`	`Corrodias`	`because countries have different laws`
`13:18.16`	`Corrodias`	`several countries define lolicon as child porn, and several do not`
`13:18.21`	`Industrial`	`sign something internationally`
`13:18.22`	`Kirkburn`	`But can you expect a country such as north korea to respect other's requests?`
`13:18.43`	`Mery`	`well if they don't cut them out completly form the internet`
`13:18.49`	`Corrodias`	`the UN has enough trouble getting us to cooperate on matters of life and death`
`13:18.54`	`Kirkburn`	`Corrodias, seriously? It's not even real :/`
`13:19.11`	`Industrial`	`even though its pretty sick`
`13:19.30`	`Corrodias`	`yes, it is not distinguished from real child porn in some countries. i don't have a list, but i think wikipedia gives a general outline.`
`13:19.42`	`Kirkburn`	`Worse than (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Final_Solution-chan.jpg) I expect, then?`
`13:20.04`	`Corrodias`	`please rephrase your question`
`13:20.58`	`Kirkburn`	`I have to plans to go searching on google for lolicon, that's the wikipedia 'sample' picture`
`13:21.11`	`Kirkburn`	`*no plans, even`
`13:21.13`	`Corrodias`	`it is legal in the US (according to common interpretation and enforcement of the laws) and not legal in Sweden, for example`
`13:21.26`	`Corrodias`	`that's not even pornographic, so it wouldn't be banned anywhere`
`13:21.48`	`Kirkburn`	`It's odd, isn't it - there is no such real thing as morality`
`13:21.58`	`Industrial`	`it does have a double meaning`
`13:22.09`	`Kirkburn`	`It's something we have burdened on ourselves in order to create a society based on unwritten rules`
`13:22.20`	`Corrodias`	`i must admit, no god has personally told me what is "good" and what is "bad".`
`13:23.11`	`Corrodias`	`but to get back on track...`
`13:23.57`	`Kirkburn`	`Should we start imposing our morals on animals, for example?`
`13:24.18`	`Corrodias`	`there's some lolicon near the bottom of this thread. [warning: may not be legal in all counries, please consult local laws for more information] [warning: not safe for work] http://img.4chan.org/b/res/11019756.html`
`13:24.26`	`Corrodias`	`brb, taking the dogs down`
`13:24.27`	`Kirkburn`	`Bonobos are more sexually 'free' than pretty much any society on earth - should we teach them that what they do is 'wrong'?`
`13:25.03`	`Industrial`	`Corrodias: I consider that illegal`
`13:25.11`	`Industrial`	`Kirkburn: no, they are not part of our society`
`13:25.37`	`Kirkburn`	`But their DNA is almost identical to ours`
`13:25.53`	`MoonWolf`	`does not make them part of our society`
`13:26.08`	`Industrial`	`But they are not developed to a point where they can understand us`
`13:26.15`	`Kirkburn`	`Well, it also depends on how you define society`
`13:26.15`	`Industrial`	`well, this matter :P`
`13:26.45`	`Kirkburn`	`I'm sure they could understand us to a simple extent - they can make simple tools, for example`
`13:27.09`	`Industrial`	`You can train a monkey to do something but I dont think that makes them understand it`
`13:27.30`	`Industrial`	`'look this monkey can type' - thats his whole life purpose and he was trained to do so.`
`13:27.35`	`Kirkburn`	`Are you saying they aren't concious?`
`13:27.38`	`wereHamster`	`http://n.ethz.ch/student/iyves/gallery/wow/cd2.png - added items CDs, what do you think? and what else could I improve?`
`13:27.49`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge zinor (n=aaaa@ip-80-226-178-223.vodafone-net.de)`
`13:27.54`	`Kirkburn`	`*self-concious might be a better word`
`13:27.57`	`Industrial`	`Kirkburn: its like when a baby cries to get attention`
`13:28.16`	`Industrial`	`Kirkburn: they do it to get a cookie/whatnot`
`13:29.03`	`Industrial`	`wereHamster: its nice`
`13:29.07`	`Corrodias`	`what are bonobos?`
`13:29.10`	`Kirkburn`	`Bonobo chimps`
`13:29.35`	`Kirkburn`	`One of our closest relatives, along with the common chimp`
`13:29.36`	`Corrodias`	`man, everything is better with classical music`
`13:29.56`	`Industrial`	`I prefer pounding industrial and power noise :>`
`13:30.04`	`Kirkburn`	`I've got Lily Allen on`
`13:30.18`	`Industrial`	`psyclon nine - blunt force trauma`
`13:30.19`	`Kirkburn`	`I don't expect you to know who she is :)`
`13:30.29`	`Kirkburn`	`I don't expect me to know who the hell that is`
`13:30.29`	`Industrial`	`lol`
`13:30.40`	`Industrial`	`Kirkburn: nah :D`
`13:30.56`	`Kirkburn`	`It sounds like a planet`
`13:31.57`	`Kirkburn`	`So, er, back on track ... there is nothing that tells us what our morals should be, and it's obvious that there is no 'correct' set of morals - unless you take a profoundly religious view`
`13:32.49`	`Beladona`	`the current moral determinet in most societies is the right to make money unfortuantely. This is much of teh reason you see legal litigation against piracy and other forms of "free" distribution`
`13:33.10`	`Kirkburn`	`Capitalism :/`
`13:33.28`	`Beladona`	`sad thing is, certain media would benefit from that distribution`
`13:33.35`	`Beladona`	`television comes to mind`
`13:33.40`	`dao_at_work`	`It's possible to have an objective morality based on non-religious thought.`
`13:33.57`	`Corrodias`	`that was the theory behind my ethics class in college`
`13:34.13`	`Corrodias`	`however, the class was asked to "assume that is true", and we never covered whether or not it IS true`
`13:34.21`	`Rallion`	`it's possible to have a personal morality but not a universal one`
`13:34.25`	`dao_at_work`	`sounds like a crummy teacher.`
`13:34.35`	`Corrodias`	`the entire class was debate and conclusion based on an unsupported premise, that morals or ethics exist`
`13:35.03`	`Beladona`	`there is an article somewhere saying "why piracy is good". It is a very interesting theory, and one that I back at least a little`
`13:35.34`	`Kirkburn`	`One type of utopian morality you could have is something along the lines of: "everyone should be free to live how they want, so long as it does not affect anyone else adversely"`
`13:35.48`	`Beladona`	`you know what I find interesting?`
`13:36.05`	`Kirkburn`	`However, it would be impossible to implement to any reasonable degree`
`13:36.09`	`Corrodias`	`unfortunately, personal preferences will interfere with the definition of what significantly affects other people adversely`
`13:36.13`	`Beladona`	`Guilds, in games, thrive and often succed by using a utopian approach`
`13:36.28`	`Beladona`	`one where the sum of its members are there to help the other members, not themselves`
`13:36.52`	`Kirkburn`	`It can last for quite a while, but it doesn't take much for it to fall apart`
`13:37.06`	`Beladona`	`guilds where all the members are mostly there for their own edification and profit are the ones that tend to crach and burn`
`13:37.36`	`Kirkburn`	`S'why communism isn't an 'evil' idea`
`13:37.53`	`Kirkburn`	`It's just how it's done`
`13:37.57`	`Beladona`	`except when it threatens capitalism`
`13:38.00`	`Kirkburn`	`that's the problem`
`13:38.01`	`Beladona`	`then it is evil`
`13:38.05`	`Beladona`	`at least to the capitalists`
`13:38.10`	`MoonWolf`	`the problem is, even the best guilds crash and burn eventually a new guild is easy to create, a new society, not so much.`
`13:38.32`	`Kirkburn`	`Guilds are similar to a tribal society`
`13:38.48`	`Beladona`	`of course, but I find guilds much more likely to succeed on that approach than any other`
`13:38.51`	`Beladona`	`at least in my experrience`
`13:39.08`	`Corrodias`	`these guilds operate within a larger government -- the game rules and economy`
`13:39.21`	`Thrae`	`Ny guild and its ally just had a small fight about notification. Seems both guilds have problem members who don't properly notify when they can't make it to the raid, leaving us with 30 people who signed on to see the MC run cancelled because of lack of participation.`
`13:39.26`	`Corrodias`	`if all things in the game were up to them, it may not work so well`
`13:39.46`	`Beladona`	`Thrae, does your guild use Group Calendar?`
`13:40.08`	`Thrae`	`Beladona: They currently use GEM2, going to switch to Group Calendar`
`13:40.18`	`Corrodias`	`signing up for a raid and not showing was to be notably punished in my own guild`
`13:40.18`	`Kirkburn`	`Amazing how everything returns to WoW :)`
`13:40.19`	`Thrae`	`Because its 2 guilds instead of one, these things take time.`
`13:40.32`	`Beladona`	`yeah`
`13:40.53`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ven (n=ven@dynadsl-080-228-65-215.ewetel.net)`
`13:41.06`	`Industrial`	`Beladona: Ive experienced a few guilds where trade goods arent owned by the guild member but by the guild for example`
`13:41.09`	`Beladona`	`you just have to train people not to confirm a raid appointment unless they know they can go`
`13:41.13`	`Industrial`	`in other games though`
`13:41.26`	`Thrae`	`One of the long-time members and people I know IRL said that "It's just a game, I'm not going to put aside my personal life for it"`
`13:41.52`	`Beladona`	`then they probably shouldn't be saying they can make it`
`13:41.53`	`Thrae`	`But we kept saying over and over again, that's not the issue. The issue was notification. Even just 1 day's notification of not being able to go is fine.`
`13:41.53`	`Corrodias`	`that's fine. but if they hurt other people by lying... they must be removed.`
`13:42.02`	`Beladona`	`they should isntead be keeping it as tentative`
`13:42.11`	`Thrae`	`It takes like 10 secs to write up a short email`
`13:42.25`	`Beladona`	`I would think the raid members would appreciate someone who didn't say they could come, but did show up, than someone that said they would be there but didn't`
`13:42.46`	`Beladona`	`tahts how our guild does it`
`13:42.53`	`Beladona`	`you don't sign up for a raid unless you can be there`
`13:42.58`	`Kirkburn`	`To sum up: society is odd`
`13:43.02`	`Tain`	`The way around that, that I've seen, is to add some more people to the guild so that there's always enough.`
`13:43.07`	`Corrodias`	`"and somehow we ended up with 40 druids because they all showed up unscheduled but nobody else did"`
`13:43.14`	`Beladona`	`if someone says they can be there, and misses 3 raids in a row, we don't include them in our count`
`13:43.37`	`Tain`	`My guild doesn't want people to sign up for raids, but does want to know if you know you can't make it and tehre's a message board thread for every scheduled raid.`
`13:43.46`	`Thrae`	`Beladona: That's not really the issue, the issue is saying you'll be there and not being able to be there`
`13:43.53`	`Thrae`	`It's about personal time management.`
`13:43.56`	`Corrodias`	`that's plain lying`
`13:43.59`	`Tain`	`So if someone doesn't show up and doesn't notify yeah there's consequences, but not usually any problem.`
`13:44.03`	`Beladona`	`which is why we don't count those people`
`13:44.07`	`Beladona`	`thats an issue of unreliability`
`13:44.10`	`Corrodias`	`lying to your guild should have serious penalties!`
`13:44.15`	`Beladona`	`aye`
`13:44.16`	`Industrial`	`minus 50 dkp`
`13:44.33`	`Corrodias`	`everybody's other-side-alt camps that character for one week. lol`
`13:44.40`	`Thrae`	`Well, if we give them the benefit of the doubt, and they just have a "hectic life" or periods of time out of their control, that's understandable. But you have to plan for that, and not commit.`
`13:44.46`	`Beladona`	`we have a group of core raiding people in our guild, and a group of people that we know might come but can't be counted on`
`13:45.08`	`Beladona`	`bear in mind that isn't to say we don't like those people, we just don't count on them`
`13:45.29`	`Thrae`	`Yeah that's about our situation too Beladona, except our core group is only 30 members`
`13:45.50`	`Industrial`	`My view on guilds is that a smaller guild is better then a guild with 60+ members. A guild has to be built on honour and trust. There should be a reputation to be held up. Swearing is not allowed and to be curteous towards other guilds/people is a must.`
`13:45.56`	`Beladona`	`yeah that could be hard`
`13:45.57`	`Industrial`	`if you have that you are set.`
`13:45.59`	`Beladona`	`need more people`
`13:46.10`	`Beladona`	`we have a weird issue in our guild`
`13:46.10`	`Industrial`	`Thats how I'd want my guild if I were to make one`
`13:46.20`	`Beladona`	`most guilds suffer from a lack of paladins and warriors`
`13:46.21`	`Corrodias`	`ooh, censoring the chat already begins to chafe`
`13:46.23`	`Beladona`	`on our server at least`
`13:46.28`	`Beladona`	`we have tons of those`
`13:46.33`	`Beladona`	`but not enough priests and mages`
`13:46.38`	`Tain`	`That's how it is, you do have to have more people to always be able to put out a 40 person raid.`
`13:46.39`	`Thrae`	`Maelstrom has plenty of Paladins and Warriors`
`13:46.55`	`Thrae`	`Lack of Mages and Druids`
`13:46.58`	`Tain`	`People complain sometimes that we have like 8 or 9 active Warriors, but you need them when some nights there's 2 on.`
`13:47.08`	`Beladona`	`aye`
`13:47.26`	`Beladona`	`we have about that number, but only about 3 are always there for raids`
`13:47.32`	`Tain`	`Of course we also have 9 or 10 active Rogues and damn when eveyrone's on things die quick.`
`13:49.36`	`Kirkburn`	`Hmm, I might just have to play WoW today`
`13:55.38`	`Tain`	`We expecting that patch tomorrow? I didn't think so.`
`13:56.42`	`Elkano`	`we are? Oo`
`13:56.56`	`Tain`	`That was a question.`
`13:57.10`	`Beladona`	`I don't know`
`13:57.20`	`Beladona`	`I still personally believe they have more to change`
`13:57.28`	`Beladona`	`but that hasn't stopped them before`
`13:57.32`	`Tain`	`Yeah.`
`13:57.33`	`Elkano`	`^^`
`13:57.52`	`Beladona`	`I am anxious for the mod channel though`
`14:00.00`	`Tain`	`Yeah`
`14:01.14`	*** join/#wowi-lounge ag` (n=Andreas@0x535cbbaa.bynxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk)
`14:03.40`	`wereHamster`	`Beladona, why?`
`14:04.17`	`Corrodias`	`... he screamed, as the rain thundered across the tiles.`
`14:04.44`	`Corrodias`	`She could respond only with ...`
`14:06.27`	`Beladona`	`because it will be nice for mods to use instead of a channel that requires user interaction to setup`
`14:06.35`	`Beladona`	`(sorry, was afk)`
`14:08.46`	`wereHamster`	`I am afraid of more random disconnects because it's easier to flood..`
`14:08.48`	`Corrodias`	`The lightning flashed again, as the smoke began rolling out of the windows. There were no sirens of a fire truck... they were alone, the only two remaining in the shattered husk of a city.`
`14:10.05`	`Corrodias`	`it's brilliant: mod author fanfics. i'll be famous.`
`14:11.30`	`Kirkburn`	`Who's Corrodias?`
`14:12.08`	`Kirkburn`	`Bah, probably no-one`
`14:12.28`	`Corrodias`	`how terrible`
`14:12.55`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge dreamss (i=dreamss@0wn3d.vcdquality.com)`
`14:12.58`	`Kirkburn`	`... he sang whilst dancing the rain`
`14:13.30`	`Corrodias`	`what's this, Kirkburn seeks to be a mod author fanfic author fanfic author? The gods themselves will stand in your way!`
`14:14.30`	`JoshBorke`	`~roulette`
`14:14.32`	`purl`	`ACTION watches joshborke pull the trigger: Click!`
`14:15.09`	`Kirkburn`	`What's that, gods? You'll let me pass? How kind ...`
`14:15.41`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r43h96.res.gatech.edu)`
`14:16.27`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight__ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`14:17.30`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com)`
`14:27.33`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tarog (n=rat@ip68-230-57-60.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`14:35.22`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Cide- (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com)`
`14:43.12`	`Hexarobi`	`is there a Lua command to just delay execution of a statement?`
`14:43.34`	`Hexarobi`	`my addon is autojoining a channel, but its doing it before the other channels get joined, so it shifts general to 2, trade to 3 etc`
`14:48.21`	`wereHamster`	`create a frame and set an 'OnUpdate' script or use one of teh many libraries to schedule execution of your code`
`14:51.50`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge zinor-- (n=mirc@dslb-088-064-180-165.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`14:56.47`	`Kirkburn`	`Hell yeah :D I do love coding websites`
`14:57.35`	`wereHamster`	`link?`
`14:59.27`	`Beladona`	`Kirkburn: you and me both`
`14:59.42`	`Kirkburn`	`When I've got the menu system sorted - I just got it working`
`15:02.29`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tarog (n=rat@ip68-230-57-60.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`15:19.32`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Abenadi (n=mtgother@wsip-70-166-187-15.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`15:19.37`	`Kirkburn`	`wereHamster, http://chig3.georgepribul.eu/`
`15:19.54`	`Kirkburn`	`I just coded the menu system`
`15:20.35`	`Rallion`	`nice`
`15:20.56`	`Rallion`	`except that the submenu items can be taller than the bar`
`15:20.57`	`Hexarobi`	`is chigwell and epping a real place?`
`15:21.02`	`Kirkburn`	`Now to make it look nice too :)`
`15:21.14`	`Kirkburn`	`Two places, and yes`
`15:21.23`	`Hexarobi`	`o`
`15:21.27`	`Rallion`	`ah, okay :)`
`15:21.28`	`Hexarobi`	`itd be much cooler if it was one place`
`15:21.34`	`Abenadi`	`Is there a better way to tell if you're casting than to use CastingBarFrame.casting?`
`15:21.35`	`Hexarobi`	`in my fantasies... it is`
`15:21.42`	`Kirkburn`	`Weirdo :P`
`15:21.50`	`Hexarobi`	`i dream of relaxing vacations at my estate in Chigwell and Epping Forrest`
`15:22.09`	`Rallion`	`That sounds just capital!`
`15:22.12`	`Hexarobi`	`forrest does have 2 r's right?`
`15:22.17`	`Rallion`	`no.`
`15:22.26`	`Hexarobi`	`just forrest gump?`
`15:22.31`	`Rallion`	`Just Gump.`
`15:22.36`	`Hexarobi`	`damn`
`15:22.40`	`Hexarobi`	`ok`
`15:27.28`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Mery2 (i=metelman@p54AEEDEC.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`15:28.33`	`wereHamster`	`Kirkburn, I don't like the font :(`
`15:28.57`	`Kirkburn`	`What font is it using for you?`
`15:29.21`	`Kirkburn`	`(I just updated the menu system :)`
`15:30.04`	`Kirkburn`	`The order is thus: "Calibri, "Segoe UI", Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"`
`15:30.18`	`Rallion`	`Do any of you ever look at code that you wrote and think, "I am so smart. Look at how awesome I am!"?`
`15:30.45`	`Cairenn`	`nope`
`15:30.48`	`Cide-`	`if the code in question merits that emotion, I usually don't understand it the day after`
`15:30.53`	`wereHamster`	`Kirkburn, http://dbservice.com/ftpdir/tom/screenshot5.png`
`15:30.55`	`MoonWolf`	`Rallion that feeling only lasts so long after a few weeks you either go, well that wan't so special or damn, I should have done it like that.`
`15:31.14`	`Rallion`	`Great. I'm not alone.`
`15:31.15`	`Kirkburn`	`wereHamster, that's freaky`
`15:31.52`	`Kirkburn`	`Looks like it's tried to approximate Calibri, but failed`
`15:32.21`	`MoonWolf`	`yeah`
`15:32.24`	`Rallion`	`the letters are fat!`
`15:32.30`	`Rallion`	`not bold, fat!`
`15:32.31`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-188.handshake.de)`
`15:32.36`	`MoonWolf`	`what happend to defaulting to the normal system font`
`15:32.49`	`Kirkburn`	`The title (top-right) is what it's supposed to be like`
`15:34.31`	`Kirkburn`	`wereHamster, what are you running? OSX?`
`15:34.48`	`Kirkburn`	`Or is that just a nice skin?`
`15:35.10`	`wereHamster`	`Kirkburn, gentoo`
`15:35.17`	`wereHamster`	`E17`
`15:35.31`	`Kirkburn`	`Gentoo gone done weirdness to that there website`
`15:36.02`	`wereHamster`	`<PROTECTED>`
`15:36.04`	`End`	`would E17 be Enlightenment?`
`15:36.20`	`wereHamster`	`yes`
`15:36.26`	`MoonWolf`	`yes`
`15:39.59`	`Kirkburn`	`But basically, it seems to have massively overbolded the font`
`15:40.27`	`Kirkburn`	`The small text is reasonably accurate`
`16:00.48`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1)`
`16:09.42`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@71.216.187.14)`
`16:14.17`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kaso (n=Jonathan@host81-159-0-9.range81-159.btcentralplus.com)`
`16:15.47`	`Kirkburn`	`wereHamster, is the page title bit better positioned now?`
`16:15.48`	`Kaso`	`can someone help me with a question im feeling a little lazy to reasearch myself ? :> I'm wonder how to loop through all frames`
`16:15.59`	`Kirkburn`	`http://chig3.georgepribul.eu/index.html`
`16:16.04`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tem_ (n=tardmrr@204.90.50.252)`
`16:16.14`	`Kirkburn`	`(thanks for taking a look by the way)`
`16:16.17`	`MoonWolf`	`Kaso, define all frames.`
`16:16.20`	`[Ammo]`	`Kaso: I think some of the zonetime optimizers do/did that`
`16:16.32`	`Tem`	`yes`
`16:16.39`	`Tem`	`that's exactly how Catalyst worked`
`16:16.39`	`[Ammo]`	`althought they're obsolete atm`
`16:16.45`	`Tem`	`they are`
`16:16.50`	`MoonWolf`	`Catalysts goes through all the frames (parented to UIParent ?)`
`16:16.56`	`Kaso`	`ive got an addon thats spamming a tooltip and im too lazy to trial and error to find it so i want to make a function to find all frames with Tooltip or TT in the name`
`16:17.06`	`Tem`	`no`
`16:17.09`	`Tem`	`god no, MoonWolf`
`16:17.19`	`Tem`	`that's the crap that nFLT did`
`16:17.26`	`Tem`	`the stuff that made me puke`
`16:17.26`	`MoonWolf`	`Catalyst is still usefull not all frames stop receiving updates I think, and it shows zoning time :)`
`16:17.44`	`Elkano`	`warmup shows zonig times too iirc`
`16:18.05`	`Tem`	`heh, I commented out the event capturing code`
`16:18.11`	`Tem`	`and keep Catalyst for zone time`
`16:18.15`	`MoonWolf`	`same here.`
`16:18.17`	`wereHamster`	`Kirkburn, http://dbservice.com/ftpdir/tom/screenshot6.png`
`16:18.41`	`Thrae`	`Must kill friends!`
`16:18.44`	`Kaso`	`something like for i in _G do Stuff() end or something but for work`
`16:18.45`	`[Ammo]`	`Warmup shows zoning time`
`16:19.01`	`Thrae`	`Pick up four &^%$ cell phone when I put you down as a reference`
`16:19.08`	`Thrae`	`s/four/our/`
`16:19.22`	`Thrae`	`Typos increase when typing angrily.`
`16:19.38`	`Kirkburn`	`wereHamster, bit better - I'd been meaning to fix the left alignment of it :) Don't think I'll be able to sort top spacing bit as easily`
`16:21.45`	`wereHamster`	`btw I'm using Firefox 1.5.0.4`
`16:22.42`	`Kirkburn`	`I'm not getting the same height issues here on 1.5.0.5 - it's likely an OS specific thing to do with line height - gonna try fixing it now`
`16:27.38`	`Beladona`	`wonder if it has anything to do with the font smoothing subsystem, and antialized text that it looks like it is using. I know some linux builds are using that now`
`16:27.47`	`Corrodias`	`it looks okay to me on firefox 1.0.7, winxp`
`16:28.22`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tarog (n=rat@ip68-230-57-60.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`16:29.06`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Egi (n=daegi@p54B0FB66.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`16:29.11`	`Egi`	`hi`
`16:29.16`	`Corrodias`	`ho`
`16:29.18`	`Gryphen`	`heya`
`16:29.19`	`Corrodias`	`hi ho`
`16:29.25`	`Egi`	`anyone here who is interested in helping me with my little mod ?`
`16:29.25`	`Corrodias`	`it's off to hell we go`
`16:29.37`	`Kirkburn`	`How kind :)`
`16:29.50`	`Egi`	`have a problem ... but dont know if its logical or a syntax prob ://`
`16:30.29`	`Egi`	`or if there is some kind of a restriction inside wow .. and that is why my mod doesnt work ..`
`16:30.33`	`Kirkburn`	`"I always lie" ... that's a logical problem for you :)`
`16:30.54`	`Hexarobi`	`do you have a counterpart who always lies as well?`
`16:31.01`	`Egi`	`xD`
`16:31.02`	`Egi`	`fz`
`16:31.03`	`Egi`	`fu`
`16:31.11`	`Corrodias`	`one of us always lies and the other always tells the truth`
`16:31.30`	`Hexarobi`	`well then what would he say if i asked him which door is the right one?`
`16:31.35`	`Corrodias`	`unless we both lie and i'm just lying about that`
`16:31.40`	`Corrodias`	`sucker`
`16:31.42`	`Hexarobi`	`noooo`
`16:31.56`	`Kirkburn`	`Or that I only sometimes lie?`
`16:32.25`	`Kirkburn`	`Um, so, er`
`16:32.29`	`Egi`	`noone here who could take a look on my code and tell me whats wrong ?? ://`
`16:32.41`	`Kirkburn`	`Sure we can`
`16:32.47`	`Corrodias`	`you have to post it somewhere that they can see, first :)`
`16:32.49`	`Hexarobi`	`you havent given us a pastey yet`
`16:32.58`	`Hexarobi`	`wowi.pastey.net`
`16:37.11`	`Egi`	`http://www.pastey.net/59-2t7t`
`16:37.16`	`Egi`	`here ... take a look at it`
`16:37.25`	`Gryphen`	`please`
`16:37.56`	`Egi`	`nice page btw`
`16:38.28`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Karen@CPE00045a2bfcbc-CM000f212f84be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`16:38.28`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ`
`16:38.54`	`Kirkburn`	`Btw, why have we suddenly moved to pastey from pastebin?`
`16:39.02`	`Gryphen`	`pastebin is slow`
`16:39.04`	`MoonWolf`	`Is there a hardware event at UPDATE_SHAPESHIFT_FORMS ?`
`16:39.49`	`MoonWolf`	`otherwise, you are not allowed to cast a spell.`
`16:39.57`	`Egi`	`mmmh well ... in order to change the forms i always press a button in wow`
`16:40.20`	`Gryphen`	`thats two spells with one press, switch forms and cast tracking`
`16:40.21`	`Egi`	`the one in the shapeshiftbar ... so i guess this is your hardware event`
`16:40.24`	`MoonWolf`	`does shapshifting trigger a global cooldown ?`
`16:40.38`	`Egi`	`where ?`
`16:40.44`	`Egi`	`its only one spell`
`16:40.45`	`wereHamster`	`MoonWolf, yes`
`16:40.53`	`MoonWolf`	`in that case its not going to work`
`16:40.53`	`Egi`	`mmmmh ... a cooldown`
`16:40.57`	`Egi`	`letme take a look`
`16:41.01`	`MoonWolf`	`you can't cast in the global cooldown`
`16:41.16`	`MoonWolf`	`and if you wait for it to end your hardware event is gone.`
`16:41.37`	`Egi`	`yes`
`16:41.46`	`Egi`	`there is a global cooldown while changing forms`
`16:41.56`	`Egi`	`mmmh that should be the reason`
`16:42.02`	`MoonWolf`	`Sorry Egi, the code is fine, blizzard simply won't allow you too.`
`16:42.39`	`Egi`	`damn`
`16:42.40`	`Egi`	`xD`
`16:43.15`	`Kaso`	`So, anyone, can i do something similar to _G in Wow ?`
`16:43.25`	`Tem`	`so, people in my guild think 1.12 is tomorrow`
`16:43.32`	`Tem`	`I haven't heard anything about it either way`
`16:43.40`	`Tem`	`anyone got any information?`
`16:43.48`	`Tem`	`Kaso, getfenv(0) == _G`
`16:43.56`	`Kaso`	`thank you`
`16:45.06`	`Egi`	`what mod are you using in order to change the position of your frames ?`
`16:45.16`	`MoonWolf`	`tem, i doubt it.`
`16:45.25`	`MoonWolf`	`testrealm is still there`
`16:45.34`	`MoonWolf`	`there are still changes that have not been on the realm`
`16:45.40`	`MoonWolf`	`and the timeframe seems to short.`
`16:45.48`	`Tem`	`I haven't been on there in a few weeks so I didn't know`
`16:46.00`	`Tem`	`though, the last time I did, I got me a 3100 fireball crit on a rogue`
`16:46.01`	`Egi`	`i too think that the test phase is going to last longer`
`16:46.07`	`Tem`	`go go bezerker buff`
`16:46.13`	`MoonWolf`	`Purely speculation on both my and your friends part ofcourse.`
`16:47.06`	`Tem`	`k`
`16:47.15`	`Tem`	`I was mostly wondering if blizzard had said anything`
`16:47.23`	`Tem`	`but really, I should have known better`
`16:47.36`	`MoonWolf`	`Not that I know off, but I have not seen the forums the last two day's.`
`16:47.45`	`Kirkburn`	`wereHamster, how about now? :) http://chig3.georgepribul.eu/`
`16:48.00`	`Tem`	`and really, I hope we have a little longer before we go into 1.12`
`16:48.13`	`Tem`	`the queue times do suck, but I like knowing my foe`
`16:48.16`	`MoonWolf`	`would be better for both parties.`
`16:49.43`	`Kirkburn`	`Surely they won't sweeping changes then?`
`16:49.46`	`Kirkburn`	`*make`
`16:49.52`	`MoonWolf`	`I think that will put the bandwith problems of 1.10 to shame`
`16:50.23`	`Kirkburn`	`Ah, I suppose it'll bring back lots of people`
`16:50.23`	`Egi`	`i myself tried: moveanything(dont like that one), mobileframes(better but somehow not complete), ace/visorgui(acts strange sometimes and you need a full list of all frames to operate well), discordframes(buggy)`
`16:50.28`	`MoonWolf`	`that too, but i DO think the UI is getting some reworking.`
`16:50.44`	`Egi`	`do you know any other addons which are making your frames moveable ?`
`16:53.35`	`Rallion`	`discord, buggy?`
`16:54.11`	`Egi`	`well ... a lot of times i m getting "nil" errors and stuff like that`
`16:55.01`	`Egi`	`almost one error msg every 20sec when i m fooling around with discord ...`
`16:55.31`	`Rallion`	`you sure it was the latest version? I find DFM to be the buggiest of his addons, but only in the sense that if you do something WoW doesn't like, the program will crash`
`16:55.36`	`Rallion`	`I get nothing like nil errors`
`16:57.07`	`Egi`	`v1.2 i tried`
`16:57.50`	`Egi`	`and how can a wow addon build in a way that it do something wow doesnt like .. i mean ... isnt that crappy ? xD`
`16:58.05`	`Abenadi`	`can anyone move people's raid positions around or just the raid leader?`
`16:58.19`	`Abenadi`	`by anyone i mean can assists`
`16:58.41`	`Kirkburn`	`Mikk, seen this? http://de.wow-wiki.net/wiki/index.php/Hauptseite`
`16:58.44`	`Egi`	`the positions can only be changed by a leader or an assitant`
`16:58.50`	`Abenadi`	`ok`
`17:00.02`	`Rallion`	`Egi, it IS crappy. Yes. Both Discord Frame Modifiers and Discord Art can crash the game if you don't do things right, and AFAIK there's not even anything that can be done about it without removing features; there's no way to do safety checks`
`17:00.29`	`Mikk`	`Kirkburn: Whoot! =)`
`17:00.43`	`Kirkburn`	`Explains where the german content came from :)`
`17:01.12`	`Kirkburn`	`I notice the front page links are basically a translation of the english one :P`
`17:01.52`	`Egi`	`i think that the whole page is just a translation of the english one G`
`17:02.02`	`Kirkburn`	`Well, yes :P`
`17:02.32`	`Rallion`	`hehe I love German..."Diskussion"`
`17:02.39`	`Egi`	`@rallion ... if that was my mod ... i would have removed the features`
`17:02.54`	`Rallion`	`Well, with Discord Art, the features would be...everything`
`17:02.55`	`Kirkburn`	`Mikk, good idea: [[Hosted_AddOn_Pages]]`
`17:03.02`	`Egi`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:03.14`	`Mikk`	`Kirkburn: aye.. done soon. not so much work these days =)`
`17:03.17`	`Rallion`	`If you try to load in a texture that's too big, crash-boom`
`17:03.18`	`Egi`	`but how can you work with it if it crashes that often ?`
`17:03.25`	`Rallion`	`oh, it doesn't`
`17:03.34`	`Rallion`	`If you follow instructions, you're good`
`17:03.44`	`Egi`	`oh ok .. now i got your point`
`17:03.49`	`Rallion`	`and it certainly never crashes during normal play, only during setup`
`17:04.13`	`Kirkburn`	`Mikk, at least the wiki is far more navigable these days :D`
`17:04.34`	`Egi`	`but to me it seems that the dfm <> wow interaction is not correct in anycase ... not the user <> dfm interaction`
`17:05.04`	`Mikk`	`Kirkburn: We need a [[Category:Deleters]] imho :-P`
`17:05.22`	`Kirkburn`	`heh`
`17:05.47`	`Egi`	`what prog are you using rallion ?`
`17:05.48`	`Egi`	`dfm ?`
`17:07.38`	`Rallion`	`yeah`
`17:07.51`	`Rallion`	`i have no problems with it`
`17:10.54`	`Egi`	`mmmh ... i will try it again than ^^`
`17:14.10`	`wereHamster`	`LF nice name for my new addon`
`17:14.40`	`krka`	`what does it do?`
`17:17.24`	`Kaso`	`ooh, since when did GM tickets have a wait time thingy?`
`17:18.38`	`Mikk`	`we concluded that we had no idea, but they weren't there in 1.10 =)`
`17:19.23`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-64-161-16-97.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`17:21.39`	`Kaso`	`shame its not working`
`17:24.05`	`Tem`	`Kaso, doesn't matter because the wait time is always "unavailable"`
`17:24.10`	`wereHamster`	`krka, pass/need on quest items in naxxramas`
`17:24.12`	`Rallion`	`Speaking of nice names, if anybody has a better name than TidyBags for my in-production EngBags clone, let me know...`
`17:24.20`	`Kaso`	`Tem :<`
`17:24.22`	`Corrodias`	`BritBags`
`17:24.23`	`Kaso`	`why?`
`17:24.36`	`Rallion`	`Corrodias, heh, clever.`
`17:24.38`	`Kirkburn`	`Brits aren't tidy`
`17:24.42`	`Corrodias`	`no, but they're Eng`
`17:24.48`	`Thrae`	`"BetterBags"`
`17:24.55`	`Rallion`	`I think there IS a BetterBags`
`17:24.56`	`Rallion`	`or was`
`17:25.04`	`Corrodias`	`BestBags`
`17:25.05`	`Kirkburn`	`I've heard of it too`
`17:25.08`	`Corrodias`	`BetterThanYourBags`
`17:25.08`	`Tem`	`how about, "EngBagsThatDoesn'tEatSouls"`
`17:25.09`	`AnduinLothar`	`moo`
`17:25.13`	`Rallion`	`lol`
`17:25.13`	`Kirkburn`	`UberBags`
`17:25.18`	`Corrodias`	`BagsClone`
`17:25.20`	`Thrae`	`"TinyBags"`
`17:25.23`	`Rallion`	`Tem, I like it. It really fits with my goal.`
`17:25.25`	`Egi`	`ImbaBags`
`17:25.30`	`Kirkburn`	`GenericBagMod3.4`
`17:25.35`	`Corrodias`	`NonchalantBags`
`17:25.36`	`AnduinLothar`	`SuxorzBagz`
`17:25.45`	`Thrae`	`"CoolContainers"`
`17:25.47`	`Egi`	`l337Bags`
`17:25.47`	`Tain`	`One of these days I'm going to go through all of my network cables and throw out (or maybe buy a crimper and ends) all of the ones that don't lock in anymore.`
`17:25.52`	`Corrodias`	`1337\|34g5`
`17:26.08`	`Rallion`	`totally go with the crimper, Tain, hours of fun`
`17:26.08`	`Egi`	`hehe ^^`
`17:26.15`	`Rallion`	`this is the best list of names ever.`
`17:26.34`	`Thrae`	`Ooo, I know! -- "CatNBag", because all EngBag clones use CATagories ;)`
`17:26.37`	`Rallion`	`Except TinyBags, because that's what I keep typing when I mean TidyBags.`
`17:26.59`	`Tain`	`BagLady`
`17:27.06`	`Kirkburn`	`=)`
`17:27.08`	`AnduinLothar`	`Bags`
`17:27.08`	`Tain`	`TwoBagger`
`17:27.14`	`Kirkburn`	`TeaBagger`
`17:27.17`	`Tain`	`No!`
`17:27.23`	`Kirkburn`	`=)`
`17:27.25`	`Kirov`	`TeaBagged?`
`17:27.28`	`Tain`	`BilboBAGgins`
`17:27.31`	`Kirov`	`damn`
`17:27.38`	`Thrae`	`JustBagIt`
`17:27.50`	`Tain`	`PaperOrPlastic`
`17:27.50`	`Kirkburn`	`BagTHIS!`
`17:27.59`	`Thrae`	`ThraeBags!`
`17:28.07`	`AnduinLothar`	`BagMeUpCapn`
`17:28.13`	`Tain`	`BagEnd`
`17:28.26`	`Thrae`	`Bagotron`
`17:28.35`	`AnduinLothar`	`Baginator`
`17:28.56`	`End`	`BilboBaggins`
`17:28.58`	`Thrae`	`RallyBags`
`17:29.01`	`End`	`oh wait`
`17:29.05`	`End`	`Tain got that one already`
`17:29.07`	`Kirkburn`	`FrodoBaggins`
`17:29.13`	`Tain`	`OneBag`
`17:29.14`	`AnduinLothar`	`Bagger'`
`17:29.14`	`Tain`	`Oh wait`
`17:29.17`	`Rallion`	`lol`
`17:29.17`	`Thrae`	`TwoBag`
`17:29.19`	`Tain`	`haha`
`17:29.22`	`Kirkburn`	`ThreeBag`
`17:29.29`	`Tain`	`Infinibags`
`17:29.34`	`Kirkburn`	`BagLess`
`17:29.40`	`Tain`	`BagPlus`
`17:29.43`	`Kirkburn`	`Baggage`
`17:29.49`	`Thrae`	`BagPlusAdvancedGo`
`17:29.50`	`Tain`	`AnnoyingEx-Girlfriend`
`17:29.53`	`End`	`Baggogle`
`17:30.06`	`Kirkburn`	`You go, Tain!`
`17:30.07`	`Thrae`	`BagHandler, BaggageHandler, ExcessBaggage`
`17:30.12`	`Kirkburn`	`snap snap snap`
`17:30.20`	`Tain`	`Baggleopoly`
`17:30.29`	`Tain`	`Bagopolis`
`17:30.37`	`Tain`	`GaggleOfBaggles`
`17:30.38`	`End`	`Bagolicious`
`17:30.42`	`Tain`	`Bagorama!`
`17:30.49`	`End`	`Bagtronic`
`17:30.54`	`Kirkburn`	`The Bagsons`
`17:30.59`	`Tain`	`Queen of Bagolonyia`
`17:31.13`	`Kirkburn`	`Bagpuss!`
`17:31.21`	`Tain`	`Bagglepus!`
`17:31.27`	`End`	`Bagglelocious!`
`17:31.37`	`Tain`	`BagBagMcBaggypants`
`17:31.47`	`End`	`Dr. McBaggart`
`17:31.47`	`Kirkburn`	`Bagpuss existed, fool :P`
`17:31.54`	`Kirkburn`	`(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagpuss)`
`17:32.08`	`End`	`oh noes!`
`17:32.13`	`End`	`Bagpuss...and the MICE`
`17:32.25`	`Tain`	`SuperBagsElite++`
`17:32.42`	`End`	`ARFARFARFBAGARFARFARF`
`17:33.08`	`Kirkburn`	`nooblolzerBAGroflcopter`
`17:33.43`	`Kirkburn`	`It's amazing, we almost made up funny ones a few minutes ago`
`17:33.56`	`Rallion`	`hehe`
`17:33.59`	`Thrae`	`BlueBags`
`17:34.07`	`Corrodias`	`PusBag`
`17:34.13`	`Kirkburn`	`eww`
`17:34.43`	`Rallion`	`I'm putting a list of possibilities in a text file right now`
`17:34.50`	`Corrodias`	`QueenBagglepopolous`
`17:34.51`	`wereHamster`	`does anyone here use zero-sum DKP?`
`17:35.01`	`Corrodias`	`my old guild was considering using it`
`17:35.03`	`Kirov`	`were - sorta did`
`17:35.12`	`Kirov`	`We used it for one instance`
`17:35.12`	`Rallion`	`wereHamster, that's excellent.`
`17:35.14`	`Thrae`	`GarbageBags, TrashBags, SmellyBags, FunnyBags, MysteryBags, ZeroBag, OBag`
`17:35.14`	`Corrodias`	`however, i quit WoW before it was finally decided on and i don't remember their forum, so... i really can't help you.`
`17:35.22`	`Corrodias`	`HoBags`
`17:35.36`	`Kirov`	`BlankBags`
`17:35.41`	`wereHamster`	`how well did it work?`
`17:35.49`	`Thrae`	`XBag -- the 'X' is for 'Super'`
`17:35.49`	`Kirov`	`were - not very`
`17:36.02`	`Kirov`	`were - we used in it AQ with people who were mostly 8/8 t2`
`17:36.27`	`Cide`	`hmm`
`17:36.32`	`Cide`	`Mikk around?`
`17:36.53`	`Kirov`	`Since zero dkp is loot based, and almost all of the loot god d/ed, you could go for a month, and in a single night if good stuff dropped or someone who was baddly geared went people that night would make twice as much dkp.`
`17:36.55`	`Corrodias`	`PopcornBag`
`17:37.10`	`Thrae`	`Cide -- Do you work on CT_MapMod?`
`17:37.23`	`Cide`	`I've coded it, why?`
`17:37.24`	`Kirov`	`Thrae - Cide has no affiliation with CT`
`17:37.30`	`Kirov`	`It's all a lie`
`17:37.35`	`Cide`	`conspiracy!`
`17:37.36`	`End`	`It is indeed a lie.`
`17:37.45`	`End`	`I can confirm it as such.`
`17:37.49`	`Cide`	`speaking of that, I should rewrite it to use createframe`
`17:37.55`	`Cide`	`I blame lack of time`
`17:38.04`	`End`	`it's really Mr. Smelly and Dr. Stinky who work on CT_MapMod`
`17:38.20`	`End`	`I blame watermelons`
`17:38.27`	`Kirov`	`Cide - finish ctra 2.0 first. :p`
`17:38.52`	`Cide`	`I will :)`
`17:38.58`	`Tain`	`It's going to take me a full day just to remove all the nonsense Dell installs on their systems.`
`17:39.01`	`Thrae`	`CT_MapMod's code seems to be the best replacement for Gatherer and MetaMap, just needs have MasterMod dependency removed and use CreateFrame.`
`17:39.28`	`Kirov`	`Tain - reformat c:\ done!`
`17:39.29`	`Thrae`	`I took a quick look at it and it doesn't use too much of CT_MasterMod, the CreateFrame part should be easy.`
`17:39.53`	`End`	`yeah, you don't want to be leaving that preinstalled crap on there`
`17:40.00`	`End`	`but that's true of most prebuilt machines`
`17:40.09`	`Kirov`	`Dell is especially evil.`
`17:40.16`	`Thrae`	`Tain: You can never fully remove Dell from a person's system unless you load your own copy of Windows, as the version of Windows Dell gives you is their own modified version ;)`
`17:40.46`	`Thrae`	`All kinds of nice secret Dell entries in the registry`
`17:40.49`	`Tain`	`Yeah I know Thrae, and Dell charges an extra $10 to get an actual Windows media install CD other than theirs.`
`17:40.52`	`Kirov`	`Thrae - Notice I never mentioned installing windows post format?`
`17:41.00`	`Thrae`	`Kirov: Haha`
`17:41.13`	`Tain`	`But WoW doesn't run under FreeDOS.`
`17:41.15`	`MoonWolf`	`I never keep or try to clean a preinstalled vendor windows.`
`17:41.30`	`Thrae`	`KDE + Windows Classic Theme FTW! They'll never know the difference!`
`17:41.36`	`End`	`lol`
`17:41.38`	`Tain`	`that's mean.`
`17:41.54`	`Tain`	`Windows Theme is a terrible thing to inflict on someone.`
`17:42.02`	`MoonWolf`	`legally owning a Volume License Key and cd's to match is great.`
`17:42.08`	`Thrae`	`"Mommy, I'm trying to play my games and it gives the error message, 'WTF Do You Think I Am Windows?!'"`
`17:42.37`	`Thrae`	`"Mommy, now it says, 'Error - Application terminated because it sucks.'"`
`17:42.48`	`MoonWolf`	`hahaah`
`17:42.54`	`MoonWolf`	`that would ROCK`
`17:44.04`	`MoonWolf`	`What would be even better: "Mommy can I borrow your credit card, I need to buy cedega"`
`17:44.20`	`Thrae`	`Put Linspire on there and you might get away with it for a while`
`17:44.33`	`Thrae`	`Far more Windows-ish with their own version of Cedega / Wine`
`17:44.48`	`Rallion`	`Down to six possible names`
`17:44.58`	`Thrae`	`There was some excellent deals on Fry's Electronics, decent Linspire computers starting at $150`
`17:45.17`	`Rallion`	`One of my own, one adapted from one of yours, and four just plain stolen from your brains.`
`17:45.23`	`Tain`	`I hate that there are no Fry's on the East coast. At least not in New England.`
`17:45.37`	`Thrae`	`We're not talking eMachines quality components, actually -decent- computers`
`17:45.48`	`MoonWolf`	`emachines don't say that name.`
`17:45.58`	`Tain`	`I miss Fry's.`
`17:46.00`	`MoonWolf`	`those things are worse then exploding dell laptops.`
`17:46.02`	`Kirov`	`Tain?`
`17:46.25`	`Tain`	`Now now it's not the Dell laptops that are exploding. It's the batteries.`
`17:46.28`	`Rallion`	`Yeah, no Fry's around here, and I don't know of anything that's equivalent`
`17:46.29`	`Kirov`	`Fry's are like slightly creepy geek mechas`
`17:46.39`	`Tain`	`They have exploded in Powerbooks too.`
`17:46.41`	`MoonWolf`	`Tain, technicalities.`
`17:46.51`	`MoonWolf`	`I want to make dell sound bad.`
`17:47.02`	`Kirov`	`Don't forget the long history of exploding cell phones`
`17:47.05`	`MoonWolf`	`So I'll generalise wherever I want :O :P`
`17:47.15`	`Thrae`	`I've never heard of Dell batteries exploding.`
`17:47.27`	`Kirov`	`Though, the cell phone manufacturers have mostly chalked that up to bad third party batteries.`
`17:47.29`	`Tain`	`There were a couple high-visibility instances recently, Thrae.`
`17:47.35`	`Thrae`	`I used to work for Dell as their warrenty support in most of Maryland.`
`17:47.44`	`Thrae`	`Hmm, maybe it's the newest models that have that defect.`
`17:47.54`	`MoonWolf`	`http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32723`
`17:48.00`	`MoonWolf`	`was the first one in recent times`
`17:48.00`	`Rallion`	`You know what makes me...not annoyed at all? When I ask somebody if their computer is any good, trying to figure out what games could be played at a LAN party, and they say, "I have a Dell." and then stop, as if that's an actual answer/`
`17:48.02`	`Tain`	`Yeah dramatic pics.`
`17:48.09`	`Tain`	`Almost as if someone knew they were about to explode and got their camera ready.`
`17:48.10`	`MoonWolf`	`don't have a quick link to the most recent one.`
`17:48.35`	`Thrae`	`Rallion: "I have a <brand name>" is their way of saying "I don't know what I have"`
`17:49.01`	`MoonWolf`	`Sorry, if you are going to buy a dell pc for gaming you are going to go and customize it so much that you are better off doing it yourself.`
`17:49.04`	`Tain`	`There's even http://explodinglaptop.com`
`17:49.21`	`Rallion`	`Thrae, I think that's what it actually MEANS, but they're saying it as if they're answering me`
`17:49.24`	`Tain`	`Yeah MoonWolf but laptops are different. It's hard to find a good top quality laptop that has what you want. (Dell or no.)`
`17:49.26`	`Thrae`	`You can buy a Dell gaming machine that'll do fine for high-end gaming`
`17:49.37`	`Thrae`	`Just need to spend $5000-$6000`
`17:49.41`	`MoonWolf`	`right`
`17:49.54`	`MoonWolf`	`thats what i put in this pc total, over 3 generations of updates.`
`17:49.58`	`Thrae`	`Hence why Dell aqquired Alienware - their prices are RIGHT up Dell's alley`
`17:49.59`	`Rallion`	`And of course they aren't going to give you a very customizable system`
`17:50.08`	`Tain`	`I still love Thinkpads as my favorite laptop, but would never justify paying their cost, and they're not gaming laptops ever.`
`17:50.10`	`Kirov`	`lol`
`17:50.17`	`MoonWolf`	`Alienware pc's are only cool because of the cases IMHO.`
`17:50.23`	`Kirov`	`Alienware has to pay for those custom cases somehow`
`17:50.27`	`Thrae`	`Dell's systems are pretty customizable over the Interent, but if you really knew how to customize, you wouldn't be buying a brand name in the first place`
`17:50.34`	`Tain`	`Alienware started doing high game performance PCs when no one else was.`
`17:51.01`	`Thrae`	`Tain: I think you mean, Alienware started doing brand-name gaming CASES before anyone else did`
`17:51.03`	`Tain`	`It's easy to point at other people now and say they're better, but they made their money because they were the first ones doing it and pushing marketing.`
`17:51.11`	`Kirov`	`I like using Alienware or Gamepc websites to build my computer ... then go buy my parts myself.`
`17:51.22`	`Thrae`	`People bought Alienware because "They look cool and they SOUND cool"`
`17:51.32`	`Kirov`	`sound?`
`17:51.34`	`Rallion`	`This desktop was $600 3.5 years ago and I've spent about another $300 upgrading it (and $120 replacing two dead mobos) and it's holding up quite well, I can play Oblivion on it`
`17:51.42`	`MoonWolf`	`If you want a good gaming machine even if you are a total noob, walk into a pc parts store, (the right type, the type where the staff knows its stuff) and let them help you pick the right stuff and asamble it.`
`17:51.42`	`Thrae`	`Since if you really knew WTF Alienware was talking about with its specs, you could just build it yourself`
`17:51.57`	`Tain`	`That's exactly the point Thrae.`
`17:52.11`	`Thrae`	`Hence "It SOUNDS cool. I mean look at my gigaflops!"`
`17:52.11`	`Tain`	`They sold systems for people who couldn't, or didn't want to, or thought they couldn't build it themselves.`
`17:52.16`	`MoonWolf`	`sure, its not a kickass case but the pc will be good and a lot cheaper.`
`17:52.28`	`Rallion`	`oh, but I also spent $100 on a new case, but that doesn't count, because it was pure vanity.`
`17:52.36`	`MoonWolf`	`heheehe`
`17:52.43`	`Tain`	`People will pay for convenience, that's a huge part of the free-market economy. Pay other people to do things for you.`
`17:52.44`	`Thrae`	`Thermaltake makes some good cases.`
`17:52.50`	`Cide`	`hmm, since Mikk isn't here, maybe someone else can offer some input... CTRA (1.x) currently clumps messages that are short enough together, so that they're sent as one (message1#message2#message3#...#messageN) - implementing that is kinda annoying, but do you think it's worth it?`
`17:52.55`	`Kirov`	`I payed close to $200 for my case`
`17:52.58`	`Thrae`	`s/good/pretty/`
`17:53.02`	`Kirov`	`paid rather`
`17:53.03`	`Rallion`	`Mine's an Antec`
`17:53.06`	`Thrae`	`For GOOD cases, get Antec.`
`17:53.14`	`Kirov`	`but that's because I'm tired of cutting my hands`
`17:53.15`	`MoonWolf`	`heh my case is decent, it has enough disk bay's that enough for me.`
`17:53.22`	`Tain`	`I bought my first Lian-Li case in mmm 2003 or 2004 and it's still perfect. I still look at them first.`
`17:53.27`	`Thrae`	`Tower Cases FTW`
`17:53.41`	`MoonWolf`	`those new back panels for new mobo's are real weapons man`
`17:53.47`	`MoonWolf`	`those things can cause NASTY cuts.`
`17:54.02`	`Rallion`	`> ImbaBags`
`17:54.02`	`Rallion`	`[13:26:56] <Kirkburn> Gene`
`17:54.03`	`Tain`	`No wait... I bought my Lian-Li case in 2000 I think, maybe even 99. Wow.`
`17:54.04`	`Kirov`	`A friend of mine bought a Lian-Li case, and was shipped a Kingwin case, and didn't know there was a difference.`
`17:54.05`	`Rallion`	`dammit`
`17:54.15`	`Rallion`	`http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129173 <-- mine.`
`17:54.16`	`MoonWolf`	`lol`
`17:54.25`	`AnduinLothar`	`Cide: no i dont think it's worth it`
`17:54.34`	`MoonWolf`	`I don't think my case even has a brand.`
`17:54.34`	`Kirov`	`He didn't believe me when I told him he paid for a $200 case and got a $50 one`
`17:54.37`	`Thrae`	`I'm just using a Thermaltake case I got at work for free.`
`17:54.45`	`MoonWolf`	`a well known one anyway.`
`17:55.12`	`Kirkburn`	`Rallion?`
`17:55.16`	`Cide`	`alright, thanks AL`
`17:55.25`	`MoonWolf`	`let me see if i can find a pick of the thing`
`17:55.30`	`Rallion`	`mistake, kirk`
`17:55.33`	`Kirkburn`	`:)`
`17:56.10`	`Rallion`	`i wish mIRC had an option to NOT let you paste things with returns in them without a confirmation dialog`
`17:56.32`	`MoonWolf`	`nope`
`17:56.35`	`MoonWolf`	`can't find it`
`17:56.38`	`Kirkburn`	`In HTML, would it likely make any difference if I turned [ <div id="infobox-bottom"> </div> ] into [ <div id="infobox-bottom" /> ]`
`17:56.48`	`Hexarobi`	`ya know what would be cool, the ability to package addons into ingame items`
`17:56.51`	`MoonWolf`	`doesn't matter, its not bad looking silver black and grey`
`17:56.58`	`Rallion`	`My case has optical drive faceplates, but my DVD drive has a recessed eject button, so I had to roll up a piece of paper real tight and tape it to the button so the faceplate could hit it`
`17:56.58`	`MoonWolf`	`medium tower.`
`17:57.05`	`End`	`Kirkburn: I think it does make a difference`
`17:57.29`	`Thrae`	`Hexarobi: You can already do that, just send script and run it on the client.`
`17:57.39`	`zenzelezz`	`think it depends on your !DOCTYPE`
`17:57.45`	`End`	`probably`
`17:58.00`	`Thrae`	`With 1.12 it'll be easier with SendAddonMessage. Of course, it'll be a huuuuge pain in the butt to code and both people will need to same core addon anyway.`
`17:58.02`	`Kirkburn`	`Seems it does`
`17:58.06`	`Hexarobi`	`no i mean like i could take my addon zip file and upload it somehow and create a chess set item, which i could give to someone else and it would download and install on their computer`
`17:58.17`	`Thrae`	`"Infecting" people with addons is probably not a good idea otherwise ;)`
`17:58.28`	`End`	`with plain old HTML 4.x, <div blah/> probably wouldn't work, but it might work with xhtml`
`17:58.34`	`Kirkburn`	`I just tried with a totally innocuous bit of html, and it broke the page (using XHTML 1.0 transitional)`
`17:58.39`	`Hexarobi`	`hehe`
`17:58.51`	`Rallion`	`I really want to spend $460 on my current newegg wishlist...though I'd say it's almost time for CPU prices to start dropping...`
`17:58.55`	`End`	`hmmm`
`17:59.11`	`Hexarobi`	`im thinking more of something thatd have to be implimented on blizzards end`
`17:59.20`	`Hexarobi`	`but i suppose yer right`
`17:59.43`	`Hexarobi`	`but theres no way to read/write files from within an addon`
`17:59.58`	`Rallion`	`I've narrowed it down to PlasticBags, Bag-o-matic, Bagless or Bagotron`
`18:00.07`	`End`	`PaperOrPlastic`
`18:00.11`	`Rallion`	`and I'm leaning towards PlasticBags`
`18:00.21`	`Rallion`	`yeah that was Tain's, End`
`18:00.24`	`End`	`oh`
`18:00.25`	`End`	`hehe`
`18:00.25`	`Hexarobi`	`to do what`
`18:00.29`	`AnduinLothar`	`PaperBagHandles`
`18:00.38`	`End`	`FlimsyPaperBags`
`18:00.54`	`Rallion`	`oh god don't start again, I respect your abilities!`
`18:00.56`	`AnduinLothar`	`TwoTwoLiters`
`18:00.58`	`End`	`FlimsyPaperBagsThatBreakAndSpillYourGroceriesAllOverTheFreakinPlace`
`18:01.17`	`Rallion`	`I think somebody should name an addon something like that. Just...not me.`
`18:01.19`	`MoonWolf`	`http://www.dccs.co.uk/images/cases/mercury/kob115.jpg <- my case is not unlike this one but the lines are different and the front it black and the sides grey`
`18:01.39`	`Rallion`	`well that ain't ugly`
`18:05.20`	`Rallion`	`PlasticBags it is. Tain gets credit for her influence.`
`18:05.57`	`Kirkburn`	`Well done Taine!`
`18:06.56`	`zenzelezz`	`heh, 12 e-mails in my inbox, 11 spam, one genuine... and Thunderbird thinks the genuine one is a scam`
`18:08.23`	`Tain`	`Those bags are tainted.`
`18:09.03`	`Kirkburn`	`noob thunderbird`
`18:09.35`	`zenzelezz`	`I think it might have been confused about the language`
`18:10.08`	`zenzelezz`	`it was an e-mail in Norwegian; and a "weekly offers" newsletter`
`18:14.00`	`Hexarobi`	`oo u were naming yer addon`
`18:14.02`	`Hexarobi`	`whats it gunna do rallion`
`18:14.08`	`End`	`melt faces`
`18:14.12`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Industrial (n=tom@hellsblade.xs4all.nl)`
`18:14.16`	`End`	`melt faces to plastic bags`
`18:14.20`	`Hexarobi`	`why not call it HappyFunMod then`
`18:14.27`	`Hexarobi`	`Face2Bags`
`18:14.30`	`End`	`because it doesn't melt faces to happy fun`
`18:14.34`	`Hexarobi`	`Faces2Bags`
`18:14.58`	`Hexarobi`	`FlamingBagO'Poo`
`18:15.03`	`Tain`	`Holy crap Dells come preinstalled with WildTangent spyware.`
`18:15.18`	`End`	`Surprised? Not me!`
`18:15.30`	`Hexarobi`	`uhh, thats ten's of dollars worth of free software offers`
`18:15.37`	`Hexarobi`	`i call that a feature!`
`18:16.01`	`Hexarobi`	`CrapSack`
`18:16.07`	`Hexarobi`	`thatd be a goood name for a bag mod`
`18:16.08`	`Tain`	`I mean most of the preinstalled software is just crap. But that's wrong.`
`18:17.21`	`AnduinLothar`	`if you wanted good preinstalled software, you woulda bought a mac. isn't it standard practice to wipe the hd clean on a dell anyway?`
`18:18.33`	`Tain`	`I dunno, I've never had a store-bought system myself. Just business systems where they don't preinstall almost anything.`
`18:18.51`	`Tain`	`I've always built my own stuff but had to buy a laptop and this one was a good deal for the hardware.`
`18:19.26`	`Tain`	`Although I didn't even look at a Mac notebook in this case and I would have considered it depending on the deal.`
`18:19.47`	`AnduinLothar`	`too late, eh`
`18:20.00`	`Kaso`	`could someone on the US forums bang a bug in the bugs forum for me?`
`18:20.13`	`Kirov`	`what bug?`
`18:20.32`	`Kaso`	`That Ornate Spyglass turns you around 180 when you use it`
`18:20.40`	`Kirov`	`hmm`
`18:20.50`	`Kirov`	`that's an old one`
`18:21.00`	`Kaso`	`and yet its not fixed :<`
`18:21.05`	`End`	`turns you around 180?`
`18:21.23`	`Kaso`	`well it turns your vision around 180 degrees`
`18:21.27`	`Tain`	`Just took a quick look, MacBookPro would have been $500 more (minimum)`
`18:21.29`	`End`	`it does?`
`18:21.33`	`End`	`I've never noticed :X`
`18:21.39`	`End`	`I rarely use mine though`
`18:21.41`	`Tain`	`For similar hardware.`
`18:22.15`	`Tain`	`Nope my bad, at least $1000 more.`
`18:22.19`	`Kirov`	`Spyglass, Mindvision, Eagle Eye, even Eyes of the Beast and Mind Control can do that`
`18:23.50`	`End`	`one thing that annoys me about the spyglass though is it doesn't restore the camera -distance-`
`18:24.04`	`End`	`so I'm really close my character when I finish using it`
`18:26.41`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tarog (n=rat@ip68-230-57-60.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`18:28.19`	`Rallion`	`Hex, if you're still in here, I'm pretty much remaking EngBags`
`18:29.04`	`MoonWolf`	`another engbags remake!`
`18:29.08`	`MoonWolf`	`lets hope you finish it.`
`18:31.32`	`Rallion`	`Right now, I have a pretty nice all-in-one inventory window, and that's it...but if I decide to actually work on it it could have an options gui and bank support by the end of the day, then away-from-bank viewing tonight or tomorrow, then I can start working on the actual categorization part.`
`18:31.52`	`Rallion`	`I've been spending more time messing around with it than actually working on it.`
`18:32.13`	`Rallion`	`WAY more.`
`18:37.59`	`Hexarobi`	`cool rallion`
`18:38.42`	`Hexarobi`	`i need to find some chess players on my server`
`18:38.48`	`Hexarobi`	`ive got no one to test`
`18:39.20`	`Abenadi`	`earlier someone in here said assists could change groups around, but I think that's incorrect, isn't it raid leader only?`
`18:44.00`	`Rallion`	`another feature I'm going to put in is a toggle between EngBags-like viewing and OneBag-like viewing`
`18:44.45`	`Rallion`	`because sometimes I don't want my inventory mixed around and right now I have two inventory addons (plus posessions) installed and enabled`
`18:44.52`	`Thrae`	`Rallion: It would be better to just make it a LoadOnDemand module for OneBag. Don't need to reinvent the wheel, and the code won't be loaded unless people want that functionality.`
`18:45.16`	`Thrae`	`Also, OneBag and such are built to interact with Kaelten's other addons.`
`18:45.24`	`ckknight__`	`hey all, back`
`18:47.25`	`Cairenn`	`wb`
`18:47.46`	`AnduinLothar`	`chess? playing minigames or something?`
`18:47.56`	`MoonWolf`	`yeah`
`18:48.05`	`Shadowed`	`Hexarobi is making an in-game chess game`
`18:48.10`	`AnduinLothar`	`did you change it or somehting?`
`18:48.11`	`MoonWolf`	`check wowi, i think its still listed there.`
`18:48.19`	`Shadowed`	`chess > poker`
`18:48.35`	`MoonWolf`	`chess > poker easely`
`18:48.45`	`Cairenn`	`http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5204-wowChess.html`
`18:48.47`	`Thrae`	`Your raid members / BG opponents must keep you waiting for a looooong-ass time if you have time for a full game of chess`
`18:48.48`	`AnduinLothar`	`as oppossed to the minigames in cosmos`
`18:48.55`	`Thrae`	`Unless it already allows for saved sessions ;)`
`18:49.43`	`Shadowed`	`chess > all!`
`18:49.44`	`Cairenn`	`if not, it needs to ;)`
`18:50.07`	`Shadowed`	`Needs to allow cross server games using IRC and ReloadUI`
`18:50.09`	`MoonWolf`	`it needs a asynchronus mail mode too.`
`18:50.19`	`Kirov`	`AnduinLothar - no one uses your fly-by-night little addon compilation, you know that.`
`18:50.30`	`Thrae`	`And it definatly needs more cow bell.`
`18:50.55`	`Kirov`	`Hexarobi - still having the spacing issue I see.`
`18:51.04`	`AnduinLothar`	`and to think i came back willingly..`
`18:51.08`	`DoomGaze3`	`I gotta have more cow bell!`
`18:52.41`	`MoonWolf`	`btw, whoever were playing against each other in the chessmod screenie`
`18:52.43`	`Rallion`	`ooh, saved sessions...that shouldn't be too hard :)`
`18:52.43`	`MoonWolf`	`LERN2CHESS.`
`18:53.42`	`Shadowed`	`oh, it needs the ability to see what other games are playing using a global chann!`
`18:54.08`	`MoonWolf`	`guild chess matches where everybody can watch!`
`18:54.16`	`Kirov`	`lol`
`18:54.21`	`Rallion`	`Thrae, I looked at modifying other addons, including onebag, to do what I want, but I'd end up overriding most of their code anyway`
`18:54.35`	`ckknight`	`we need wow Risk`
`18:54.46`	`MoonWolf`	`risk is a luck game`
`18:54.51`	`Thrae`	`Better to just make everyone use the same communication lib with their games, so they'll auto-update come 1.12.`
`18:54.52`	`MoonWolf`	`I could care less about luck.`
`18:54.57`	`Kirov`	`Could make "ChessSpy" and have a window showing every chess game being played`
`18:55.05`	`Thrae`	`Stratego would be awesome.`
`18:55.07`	`Kirov`	`wow risk using the existing wow world map`
`18:55.08`	`Kirov`	`heh`
`18:55.10`	`Shadowed`	`lol`
`18:55.29`	`Shadowed`	`Kirov you would have to say it's for privacy reasons, got to make sure they aren't cheating to win for example`
`18:55.32`	`Rallion`	`Ooh! Stratego!`
`18:55.43`	`Kirov`	`Oh, of course`
`18:55.43`	`MoonWolf`	`i'll take games where I am in full controll, not some dice roles or random cards.`
`18:55.54`	`Shadowed`	`God forbid you decide to move a pawn for your first move`
`18:56.13`	`Rallion`	`You couldn't make Stratego 'secure' though`
`18:56.20`	`Thrae`	`Rallion: If you're going to include something like OneBag in your code, I'd just contact Kaelten out of courtesy. Of course I could say to also write the Bagnon author, etc., but I don't know them ;)`
`18:56.23`	`Shadowed`	`you couldn't make anything secure though`
`18:56.31`	`Tain`	`ooh Risk using the in game map would be great.`
`18:56.31`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`18:56.45`	`Rallion`	`Oh, no, Thrae, I didn't copy anybody's code, except Blizzard's`
`18:57.04`	`Shadowed`	`then you need written, verbal and a blood oath that you wont sell the code`
`18:57.46`	`Thrae`	`Rallion: No no, it's about making something similiar to another addon, even if you write it from stratch. Sometimes people have biases with other addons, or have ideas that the other author either already thought of or hasn't thought of.`
`18:58.02`	`Thrae`	`It's about being communicative in the Open Source community.`
`18:58.21`	`Thrae`	`Now I'm off to write a library from stratch that's already been written by someone else, because I don't like his code.`
`18:58.37`	`Shadowed`	`hehe`
`18:59.51`	`MoonWolf`	`Castling <- I am unfamiliar with english chess terms. Is this where you switch you Castle and king when there are no obstructing pieces and both have not been moved ?`
`19:03.30`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net)`
`19:03.33`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge dao_at_work (n=keith@cetus.palisadesys.com)`
`19:03.38`	`ckknight`	`Tain, wow, that'd be so pimp`
`19:04.21`	`Shadowed`	`ckknight has nominated to work on it`
`19:04.34`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Rozr (n=Rozr@S010600134619ca05.vf.shawcable.net)`
`19:06.17`	`Rozr`	`What would be the best way to parse a file containing a lua array/table, (to be able to input the values into an sql database). Inline::Lua parser for perl only really works on linux, cant seem to find any way to properly parse the lua file`
`19:09.07`	`ckknight`	`Shadowed, sounds good to me`
`19:09.24`	`Rozr`	`anyone`
`19:09.25`	`Rozr`	`?`
`19:09.27`	`ckknight`	`Shadowed, it'll be the perfect project for my AceComm testing`
`19:09.36`	`Shadowed`	`yes!`
`19:09.41`	`ckknight`	`Rozr, loadstring`
`19:09.49`	`Rozr`	`I'm trying to parse a savedvariables file`
`19:09.58`	`Rozr`	`ckknight, ???? you mean parse the file in lua?`
`19:10.06`	`ckknight`	`yes?`
`19:10.19`	`Rozr`	`I have no idea how to load a file in lua tho`
`19:10.30`	`ckknight`	`you use the io namespace`
`19:10.38`	`ckknight`	`look it up :-P`
`19:10.55`	`Hexarobi`	`we made fun of the lord of the rings so bad we made wailing caverns escort event bugout =(`
`19:11.01`	`Hexarobi`	`the big murlok wont show up`
`19:11.21`	`ckknight`	`ah`
`19:11.22`	`ckknight`	`sucks`
`19:11.27`	`Shadowed`	`haha`
`19:11.30`	`Shadowed`	`ooops :p`
`19:11.36`	`ckknight`	`Frodo was pretty gay with Sam at the end, though`
`19:12.11`	`ckknight`	`you can't deny it.`
`19:12.30`	`Rozr`	`ckknight, so like myvar = io.load("filename.lua", 'r'); x = loadstring(myvar); ?`
`19:12.43`	`Rozr`	`or am I missing a step in ther somewhere?`
`19:12.44`	`ckknight`	`seems about right`
`19:12.45`	`Hexarobi`	`and now thottbot is down sheehs`
`19:12.48`	`ckknight`	`maybe, I don't know`
`19:13.01`	`Rozr`	`thottbot is prolly just overloaded with users`
`19:13.07`	`Legorol`	`Rozr: or just simply dofile("filename.lua")`
`19:13.11`	`Legorol`	`it loads and executes the file`
`19:13.18`	`DoomGaze3`	`allakazaham usually works good`
`19:13.31`	`Legorol`	`since SavedVar files usually just contain one big table, it means you will end up with that table`
`19:13.32`	`Hexarobi`	`alla is always so slow`
`19:13.47`	`DoomGaze3`	`it's more consistent about it tho. :P`
`19:14.06`	`Shadowed`	`usually use allakazaham for new info, and thottbot for old :p`
`19:14.30`	`DoomGaze3`	`Is MentalPower around?`
`19:14.48`	`Shadowed`	`MentalPower\|ZZzz`
`19:14.51`	`Shadowed`	`i'm guessing not!`
`19:15.04`	`DoomGaze3`	`~seen MentalPower\|ZZzz`
`19:15.27`	`purl`	`mentalpower\|zzzz is currently on #wowi-lounge (11h 35m 5s), last said: 'night Cair'.`
`19:15.27`	`Shadowed`	`~seen MentalPower`
`19:15.30`	`purl`	`mentalpower <i=MentalPo@host-70-45-82-92.onelinkpr.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowi-lounge, 1d 1h 55m 58s ago, saying: 'considering that you NEED to resolve the check before making any other moves'.`
`19:15.40`	`DoomGaze3`	`that's a long ass sleep`
`19:18.08`	`Hexarobi`	`any chess players here?`
`19:18.30`	`DoomGaze3`	`who doesn't play chess?`
`19:18.42`	`DoomGaze3`	`any self respecting gamer better damn well know how to play chess`
`19:18.46`	`Beladona`	`I haven't in quite some time`
`19:19.09`	`DoomGaze3`	`He lives!!`
`19:19.11`	`MentalPower`	`I am now DoomGaze3`
`19:19.12`	`Shadowed`	`morning :p`
`19:19.21`	`Beladona`	`no one I know IRL plays, so its either play online, or don't. For a while I just haven't 0.o`
`19:19.26`	`MentalPower`	`more like afternoon, but thanks anyways :)`
`19:19.36`	`Rozr`	`hmm is it normal to get a C stack overflow?`
`19:19.42`	`DoomGaze3`	`I need your assistance Mental`
`19:19.42`	`Shadowed`	`Morning starts when you wake up, ends when it hits 6 AM`
`19:19.48`	`Rozr`	`when printing an array thats 80kb?`
`19:19.57`	`MentalPower`	`DoomGaze3: shoot`
`19:20.04`	`MentalPower`	`Rozr: nop, its not normal`
`19:20.12`	`DoomGaze3`	`I need to check items to see if it's a Set: item`
`19:20.15`	`Hexarobi`	`http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=5204`
`19:20.22`	`Hexarobi`	`download my chess addon and play a game with me to test it ;)`
`19:20.34`	`MentalPower`	`Rozr: I have an array that is ~20MB`
`19:20.39`	`Rozr`	`o its not from printing`
`19:20.41`	`MentalPower`	`(in the saved variables file)`
`19:20.46`	`Rozr`	`its from the dofile()`
`19:20.48`	`Rozr`	`hmmmm`
`19:20.48`	`Hexarobi`	`i once had an array so big it overflowed!`
`19:21.01`	`MentalPower`	`there is no dofile() in WoW's Lua implementation`
`19:21.07`	`DoomGaze3`	`and you said you were working on Itemizer. I was looking over the released code and wondering if it could be any use to me checking this`
`19:21.27`	`Rozr`	`why is it overflowing then....doesnt make sense, traceback is to th dofile`
`19:21.48`	`Rozr`	`OOooo`
`19:21.49`	`Rozr`	`woops`
`19:21.53`	`Rozr`	`I wrong the wrong lua file down`
`19:21.59`	`Rozr`	`HAHAHA I was doing a dofile on itself`
`19:22.02`	`MentalPower`	`well, I've noticed that if there's a line that is only "\n" then that item is a set item`
`19:22.03`	`Rozr`	`lol`
`19:22.49`	`DoomGaze3`	`Awesome... so how do I get my hands on it?`
`19:23.03`	`MentalPower`	`the ugly way`
`19:23.15`	`MentalPower`	`BTW, there are power company guys outside`
`19:23.19`	`DoomGaze3`	`I'm ready. Hit me where it hurts.`
`19:23.20`	`MentalPower`	`so I might just poof`
`19:23.31`	`Rozr`	`okay does dofile return anything?`
`19:23.43`	`MentalPower`	`dofile() is disabled in WoW`
`19:24.58`	`Rozr`	`ah nm`
`19:25.00`	`Rozr`	`its not for in wow`
`19:25.03`	`Rozr`	`its for out of wow`
`19:25.25`	`Rozr`	`update eqdkp with savedvariables from my custom alter DKP on the fly mod`
`19:27.18`	`Rozr`	`when I try and print the table all I get is table: 005857362 or something of that sort`
`19:27.32`	`Rozr`	`I'l check lua docs :)`
`19:27.46`	`MentalPower`	`DoomGaze3: http://pastey.net/60`
`19:28.26`	`Rozr`	`woot :)`
`19:28.30`	`Rozr`	`it works`
`19:28.37`	`Rozr`	`thank you soo much`
`19:30.29`	`DoomGaze3`	`oh wow! Thanks Mental! There's a buncha stuffs I could do with this!`
`19:30.59`	`MentalPower`	`be sure to change the function name to something a bit more unique (and the tooltip name too)`
`19:31.06`	`MentalPower`	`you don't want conflicts`
`19:31.31`	`DoomGaze3`	`does the function have to be global?`
`19:32.25`	`MentalPower`	`nop`
`19:32.31`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`19:32.42`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Iriel] by ChanServ`
`19:32.46`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh wow, Blood Elves won't get warriors`
`19:32.54`	`MentalPower`	`they don't???`
`19:32.59`	`MentalPower`	`link`
`19:33.03`	`Kirkburn`	`Top right:http://wow-europe.com/en/burningcrusade/townhall/bloodelves.html`
`19:33.04`	`Iriel`	`Afternoon`
`19:33.12`	`Kirkburn`	`Hey Iriel`
`19:33.28`	`End`	`moo`
`19:33.29`	`Kirkburn`	`Similar is on the draenei page`
`19:33.41`	`Kirkburn`	`(but they DO get warriors)`
`19:34.06`	`MentalPower`	`neither do the draenei`
`19:34.14`	`MentalPower`	`err.. oops`
`19:34.17`	`MentalPower`	`missed the icon`
`19:34.34`	`End`	`that seems...awfully strange`
`19:34.51`	`Mikma`	`oh ffs :( no druid for bloodelves`
`19:34.56`	`Shadowed`	`why must blizzard make it such a pain to show messages on combattext`
`19:35.20`	`End`	`I didn't expect druid bloodelves`
`19:35.36`	`Mikma`	`i did :(`
`19:35.40`	`MentalPower`	`that would be anti-lore to the highest degree`
`19:35.42`	`End`	`there -were- druid high elves according to the earlier games though`
`19:35.54`	`End`	`but they were never actually shown`
`19:35.56`	`End`	`just mentioned`
`19:36.01`	`Shadowed`	`though high elves ~= blood elves?`
`19:36.07`	`End`	`sort of`
`19:36.28`	`End`	`blood elves share the same relationship with high elves that high elves share with night elves`
`19:36.40`	`Thrae`	`It's a good thing Blood Elves / Draeni can't be Druids, otherwise I'd have to reroll =/`
`19:36.41`	`End`	`and that night elves share with trolls`
`19:37.10`	`DoomGaze3`	`Mental: one more question, does it matter if I pass this a vanilla link or plain link?`
`19:37.21`	`MentalPower`	`yes it does`
`19:37.41`	`MentalPower`	`the link needs to be "item:somenumber:somenumber:somenumber"`
`19:37.46`	`DoomGaze3`	`right`
`19:37.47`	`Thrae`	`AFAIK, Blood Elves are power-hungry Elves that would go as far as to become Warlocks and Mages. Night Elves dismissed those classes due to their corruptive nature.`
`19:37.53`	`DoomGaze3`	`kk`
`19:38.16`	`End`	`High Elves were already magic hungry compared to night elves`
`19:38.28`	`End`	`although, it's nothing compared to blood elves`
`19:38.34`	`Mikma`	`well, drainei females looks sexy`
`19:38.39`	`Mikma`	`i might just do a shaman then`
`19:38.44`	`Kirkburn`	`:O`
`19:38.58`	`Shadowed`	`it would be tempting to kill a drainei female warrior`
`19:39.05`	`Thrae`	`Yeah, they split off into those that were corrupt (Blood Elves), those that weren't corrupt (High Elves), and those that found the corruption distasteful (Night Elves)`
`19:39.08`	`Kirkburn`	`I'm going for a draenei female warrior`
`19:39.11`	`MentalPower`	`the draenei males look... unfinished`
`19:39.21`	`Shadowed`	`but i'd probably have to quit the game before i could level another character to 60`
`19:39.25`	`End`	`there are very few high elves left though`
`19:39.46`	`Kirkburn`	`Many of them live in stormwind`
`19:39.56`	`Kirkburn`	`Many, if not most`
`19:39.59`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge cogwheel (n=chatzill@intra.kistlerwine.com)`
`19:40.00`	`End`	`probably most`
`19:40.14`	`Thrae`	`Because most of them either become corrupt and branched off as Blood Elves, or decided against non-natural magic and become Night Elves.`
`19:40.15`	`Mikma`	`http://wow-europe.com/shared/wow-com/images/burningcrusade/screenshots/ss80.jpg`
`19:40.18`	`Mikma`	`cute :)`
`19:40.39`	`Kirkburn`	`We-ell, a high elf can't go back to being a night elf, but I get what you mean :)`
`19:40.53`	`End`	`I don't know of any High elves becoming a Night Elf`
`19:41.01`	`End`	`I don't think it works that way. :P`
`19:41.16`	`End`	`it was...sort of...an evolution`
`19:41.22`	`Thrae`	`It took centuries, this was way before the WC wars`
`19:41.45`	`End`	`trolls => night elves => high elves => blood elves`
`19:42.04`	`End`	`IIRC, night elves were trolls too close to the well of eternity or something like that`
`19:42.16`	`End`	`I haven't read the relevant books`
`19:42.43`	`Thrae`	`No no, Human => Pigs => Orcs => Trolls => Tauren => High Elves => Dragons => Night Elves => Blood Elves => Draenei => Undead => Gnomes`
`19:42.56`	`End`	`lol`
`19:43.11`	`Shadowed`	`you've passed beyond the normal level of WoW geek`
`19:43.35`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tarog (n=rat@ip68-230-57-60.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`19:43.46`	`Shadowed`	`Basically, we wanted to make sure that both new races had an equal number of class availability options. As a result, we had to cut one class from the Blood Elf's selection pool. It came down to eliminating either the Hunter or the Warrior, and after a great deal of discussion we decided that the Hunter was the better fit for this race.`
`19:43.52`	`Shadowed`	`Eyonix regarding no warriors for BE`
`19:44.13`	`krka`	`cool... only race without warrior then`
`19:44.23`	`Shadowed`	`suckers`
`19:44.30`	`End`	`but -gnomes- get warriors! :P`
`19:44.38`	`Thrae`	`The two new races also break another rule, that being that Paladin and Shaman are faction-exclusive classes.`
`19:45.44`	`End`	`yeah`
`19:45.47`	`krka`	`dranei get shaman?`
`19:45.50`	`End`	`yes`
`19:46.00`	`End`	`-where- have you been? :P`
`19:46.07`	`krka`	`good question`
`19:46.20`	`Thrae`	`I can hear the discussion now... "OK, we need to axe either Warrior or Hunter for Blood Elves. What are your thoughts, people?" "I want to be Legolas." "Did someone already mention LoTR?" "Legolas DOES look cool." "But what about every race allowing Warriors?" "But what about me shooting an arrow at you in point-black range?"`
`19:46.42`	`Shadowed`	`hahah`
`19:47.17`	`Thrae`	`"You could just be a Night Elf." "I don't want to be a black Legolas. Then I'd have to use guns." "That's racist." "You're racist, trying to take away my Legolas!"`
`19:47.24`	*** join/#wowi-lounge ag` (n=Andreas@0x535cbbaa.bynxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk)
`19:47.41`	`DoomGaze3`	`lol`
`19:48.13`	`MentalPower`	`lol`
`19:48.53`	`Shadowed`	`The blizzard at blizzard who decided Gluth needs to drop a weapon called "Claymore of Unholy might" n eeds to be shot`
`19:49.25`	`Kirkburn`	`I have to say, warriors doesn't fit all that well with blood elves anyway`
`19:49.50`	`Shadowed`	`I still like Thrae theory about why they have hunters`
`19:49.50`	`AnduinLothar`	`so.. who's gonna write the Who's Who in WoW Addons? I seem to be having issues keeping track of screen names`
`19:49.58`	`krka`	`it's horde's turn to get lots of legolases`
`19:49.59`	`krka`	`only fair`
`19:50.11`	`Kirkburn`	`AnduinLothar, you use TWO anyway :D`
`19:50.14`	`Thrae`	`White Legolas vs Black Legolas! Who will win?!`
`19:50.19`	`AnduinLothar`	`exactly`
`19:50.20`	`Shadowed`	`the one with the gun`
`19:50.36`	`AnduinLothar`	`actually i use 3`
`19:50.47`	`AnduinLothar`	`i blame blizzard for fracturing my identity`
`19:50.55`	`Tain`	`What's the over/under on Alliance Shamans still levelling after two weeks? 5% ?`
`19:50.58`	`Kirkburn`	`ooh, yeah - what did you choose in the end?`
`19:51.09`	`AnduinLothar`	`Wraithhammer`
`19:51.18`	`krka`	`so, which classes do BE get? hunter, mage, warlock, priest, paladin?`
`19:51.23`	`AnduinLothar`	`but i have an Anduinlothar lvl 2 alt i post with`
`19:51.37`	`krka`	`guessing not druid, shaman, warrior`
`19:51.43`	`Tain`	`So BE also get to be Shaman? I thought I might have read that.`
`19:51.48`	`Shadowed`	`paladins`
`19:51.49`	`krka`	`hm... what about rogue`
`19:51.56`	`Thrae`	`BE get Paladins instead of Shaman`
`19:51.59`	`Shadowed`	`BE = Paladins, Whatever the blue class is that i can't type = shamans`
`19:52.06`	`Tain`	`I know, I thought I read BE get both.`
`19:52.14`	`krka`	`draenei`
`19:52.16`	`krka`	`or something`
`19:52.19`	`Thrae`	`Hmmm, wouldn't make much sense for Elven Shamans`
`19:52.22`	`Tain`	`I haven't paid much attention though since I don't care.`
`19:52.25`	`End`	`blue hooved people`
`19:52.35`	`Tain`	`You're trying to make sense of this?`
`19:52.37`	`krka`	`wow is supposed to make sense?`
`19:52.47`	`krka`	`btw, gnomes is totally a gummibears-ripoff`
`19:52.50`	`wereHamster`	`What's BE?`
`19:52.50`	`AnduinLothar`	`but they sided with the horde... and they still serve the 'light'?`
`19:52.55`	`Shadowed`	`red guys`
`19:52.56`	`krka`	`gummibears also have both tech and magic, but no religion`
`19:52.58`	`wereHamster`	`blood elves`
`19:52.59`	`Shadowed`	`red VS blue`
`19:53.02`	`krka`	`and are short and annyoing`
`19:53.05`	`Tain`	`Gummibears, bouncing here and there and everywhere.`
`19:53.13`	`Tain`	`High adventure that's beyond compare, they are the Gummi Bears`
`19:53.28`	`Thrae`	`AnduinLothar: Both Horde and Alliance can fight with the Argent Dawn and Scarlet Crusade`
`19:53.31`	`Tain`	`Magic and mystery is part of their history, along with the secret of gummi berry juice.`
`19:53.32`	`DoomGaze3`	`zomg tain`
`19:53.39`	`krka`	`AnduinLothar, i don't think they consider themselves evil`
`19:53.42`	`Thrae`	`"The Light" is very fractioned`
`19:53.49`	`krka`	`even undead can have priests`
`19:54.00`	`Tain`	`Didn't they tell the little girl in Poltergeist to go away from the light?`
`19:54.03`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@proxy-ce3.disney.com)`
`19:54.04`	`Hexarobi`	`its pathing thru a prism`
`19:54.08`	`Hexarobi`	`passing*`
`19:54.16`	`Thrae`	`However, I think Gnome Warriors are stupid. They just put them in there because Warriors for the Horde classes made sense. They should have balanced it differently.`
`19:54.28`	`End`	`yeah`
`19:54.35`	`Shadowed`	`I think Gnome warriors are stupid just because there gnomes`
`19:54.47`	`Tain`	`My guild has an absolute infestation of gnomes.`
`19:54.51`	`krka`	`undead priests are stupid too`
`19:54.52`	`Tain`	`It makes my skin crawl.`
`19:54.56`	`Thrae`	`I like Gnomes, they're fun to RP with. But Gnomes don't seem the bloodlust type for Warriors.`
`19:55.01`	`krka`	`should be way fewer classes per race imo`
`19:55.07`	`DoomGaze3`	`yeah, a meatshield the size of my nuts doesn't really make sense even in the context of the game`
`19:55.08`	`Thrae`	`Undead Priests make fine sense, they were originally Human.`
`19:55.09`	`Shadowed`	`my guild has no dwarf/gnome warriors, but a lot of gnome mages/warlocks/rogues`
`19:55.14`	`krka`	`too many shamans too`
`19:55.28`	`Mikk`	`gnome warrior in tier2 > *`
`19:55.29`	`Thrae`	`Just because you're a Priest doesn't say WHAT you worship.`
`19:55.36`	`Thrae`	`I'm guessing Undead Priests worship evil things.`
`19:55.37`	`Shadowed`	`think all the mages except one is a gnome, 2 of the 4 warlocks are gnomes, and like 2 of the 6 rogues are gnomes`
`19:55.43`	`End`	`well, the light is somewhat implied`
`19:55.49`	`AnduinLothar`	`pointy sharp ball`
`19:55.52`	`krka`	`NE have Elune`
`19:55.53`	`Hexarobi`	`every race should get to be every class, and there should be dozens of races, nearly every good humanoid model should be playable`
`19:55.55`	`Tain`	`One of my friends begs me to supply him with Deviate Delight now because he is a Gnome Warrior and hates being so short now that we're actually doing things.`
`19:55.59`	`End`	`particularly because the reason gnomes can't be preists is "they don't believe in the light...."`
`19:56.00`	`krka`	`does tauren have priest btw?`
`19:56.03`	`End`	`no`
`19:56.07`	`Mikk`	`druids`
`19:56.07`	`Thrae`	`I think the implications of Priests worshiping The Light fails when you look at their SHADOW spells.`
`19:56.16`	`End`	`yeah, that's true`
`19:56.37`	`Thrae`	`Which, by the way, are grossly overpowered.`
`19:56.38`	`End`	`I think it's more like a varying degrees of light and dark`
`19:56.40`	`Tain`	`I think you're overthinking things.`
`19:56.49`	`End`	`maybe I am`
`19:56.58`	`End`	`probably I am`
`19:57.13`	`AnduinLothar`	`your god is not my god. my god is better. my light is lightier`
`19:57.14`	`End`	`I doubt blizzard put all that much thought into it`
`19:57.15`	`Thrae`	`"The Light" is probably based off Christanity, which is similiarly hypocritical and prone to creating diverse sects`
`19:57.20`	`krka`	`paladin is fine, only human and dwarf, mage is fine, only human and gnome (afaik), priest should be only ne and dwarf maybe`
`19:57.27`	`krka`	`warlock is fine, only human and gnome`
`19:57.42`	`krka`	`rogue is not fine, everyone can be rogue`
`19:57.47`	`krka`	`should be just nightelf and human`
`19:58.02`	`krka`	`warrior should be just human and dwarf`
`19:58.05`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`19:58.07`	`End`	`I think human priest is fine`
`19:58.08`	`Shadowed`	`NEVER`
`19:58.12`	`Thrae`	`krka: They balanced the classes so that Alliance and Horde have the same class:race ratio, but different classes per race.`
`19:58.12`	`Shadowed`	`you can't take away my NE warrior`
`19:58.35`	`krka`	`i think that's an unnecessary balancing`
`19:58.45`	`Hexarobi`	`why shouldnt every race get to be every class?`
`19:58.46`	`krka`	`but i can understand it`
`19:58.49`	`Thrae`	`They wanted to try making Alliance a "different" experience then Horde`
`19:58.58`	`krka`	`Hexarobi: it's stupid lore wise`
`19:59.02`	`Hexarobi`	`balance the classes, but race is just a role-playing astethic thing`
`19:59.15`	`Tain`	`Not at all.`
`19:59.16`	`AnduinLothar`	`diff quests`
`19:59.16`	`Thrae`	`They should have added in a lot more racials.`
`19:59.20`	`AnduinLothar`	`diff atrs`
`19:59.21`	`krka`	`nightelf warlocks is dumb, and so is gnome druid`
`19:59.22`	`Tain`	`Racial abilities are different.`
`19:59.27`	`Hexarobi`	`why`
`19:59.36`	`Thrae`	`Class Racials, I mean.`
`19:59.41`	`Hexarobi`	`maybe a night elf wants to study warlockism`
`19:59.47`	`Hexarobi`	`and a gnome really likes nature`
`20:00.19`	`Thrae`	`Hexarobi: Lore-wise, if you had a Night Elf studying the Shadows, they would be KOS to Darnassus ;)`
`20:00.20`	`Shadowed`	`Gnome druids wouldjust be silly`
`20:00.28`	`Hexarobi`	`are you gunna tell that little gnome child that he cant grow up to be a druid?`
`20:00.33`	`End`	`yes I am`
`20:00.34`	`Hexarobi`	`because to do so would be unamerican`
`20:00.43`	`Hexarobi`	`and i for one will not stand here while you badmouth america!`
`20:00.47`	`DoomGaze3`	`er, Azerothian`
`20:00.47`	`End`	`lol`
`20:00.49`	`Thrae`	`No, it would be ungnomerancan!`
`20:01.11`	`Shadowed`	`I'd fee the Gnome to a tauren if he wanted to be a druid`
`20:01.16`	`Shadowed`	`s/fee/feed/`
`20:01.26`	`Tain`	`Stupid Gnomes, if they wanted to grow up to be something they shouldn't have let themselves be tossed out of their home.`
`20:01.45`	`Shadowed`	`You must be --------------------------------------------------------------------------- this tall to be a druid`
`20:01.49`	`krka`	`i want tauren rogues though`
`20:01.52`	`krka`	`that'd be cool`
`20:01.58`	`Tain`	`I would play a Tauren Rogue.`
`20:02.05`	`Shadowed`	`Everyone would, thats why they aren't rogues`
`20:02.07`	`krka`	`yeah, not a coincidence that the tallest races of each faction are druids`
`20:02.07`	`Tain`	`Very stealthy.`
`20:02.30`	`Tain`	`On the other hand I won't play a Night Elf anything.`
`20:02.38`	`Shadowed`	`well, considering the backgrounds of both races thats not a suprise`
`20:03.16`	`Tain`	`I swear only people with obsessive repetative jumping disorder play Night Elves.`
`20:03.31`	`Shadowed`	`I prefer to thjink of it as "Bored while waiting to take 10 minutes to kill a mob"`
`20:03.58`	`Kirkburn1`	`Can you lovely people quickly test http://chig3.georgepribul.eu/, see if it all seems to be in working order please :) I want to get it perfect before I start the content`
`20:04.07`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r43h96.res.gatech.edu)`
`20:04.15`	`End`	`dude, it looks LIKE ASS`
`20:04.19`	`End`	`no, just kidding`
`20:04.21`	`End`	`it looks fine`
`20:04.26`	`Shadowed`	`^`
`20:04.52`	`Tain`	`I swear raids look like the Pink Triangle Circus with people flying back and forth.`
`20:04.56`	`krka`	`blood elf spins look sweet`
`20:05.01`	`krka`	`that's reason enough to get one`
`20:05.09`	`Kirkburn1`	`~slap End`
`20:05.13`	`purl`	`ACTION slaps End, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!`
`20:05.13`	`krka`	`blood elf spin + blood elf male dance = FTW`
`20:05.32`	`End`	`ahhh, noooo, my grubby fingers must continue their...uh...non..selfness!`
`20:05.50`	`Tem`	`Kirkburn, appears to be all good`
`20:06.13`	`Kirkburn`	`Coolio! I think I'm getting the hang of CSS coding =)`
`20:08.48`	`Legorol`	`hm, this thread is concerning me:`
`20:08.48`	`Legorol`	`http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-realm-test&t=352171&p=1&tmp=1#post352171`
`20:09.17`	`Legorol`	`so what exactly is the difference between "abusing privileged access" and "hacking into a server"`
`20:09.23`	`Legorol`	`to my mind, they are on the same level`
`20:10.00`	`Legorol`	`i mean, granted the first one occurs when someone is given power voluntarily`
`20:10.07`	`AnduinLothar`	`hacking means you didn't have legit access in the first place`
`20:10.11`	`Legorol`	`yeah`
`20:10.12`	`cogwheel`	`Hacking in is gaining access without authorization. Abusing privileged access means they got the power on purpose but used it improperly`
`20:10.16`	`Legorol`	`what worries me though is this:`
`20:10.21`	`Kirkburn`	`Sounds like GM causing trouble`
`20:10.30`	`Shadowed`	`somebody's getting fired apparently!`
`20:10.33`	`Legorol`	`well either there was a real idiot at Blizzard`
`20:10.39`	`Legorol`	`which i find very, very hard to beleive`
`20:10.45`	`wereHamster`	`"rivledged access to the PTR" ?`
`20:10.45`	`dao_at_work`	`I dislike the confusion between hacking/cracking.`
`20:10.58`	`Legorol`	`or the priviliged access to the PTR someone gained was actually unauthorized`
`20:11.01`	`Legorol`	`they're just not admitting it`
`20:11.12`	`Legorol`	`tbh, i think the 2nd one is more likely, and more worrying at the same time`
`20:11.29`	`Legorol`	`what do you think?`
`20:11.30`	`Shadowed`	`The botting going on the PTR gets annoying`
`20:11.39`	`Legorol`	`botting is not privileged access though`
`20:11.47`	`Shadowed`	`talking about in general`
`20:11.55`	`Kirkburn`	`If you could hack the server, you'd surely do more than pretend to be other people`
`20:12.05`	`Legorol`	`could a Blizzard employee be really so stupid as to do something they know will get them fired, and abuse their privileges?`
`20:12.16`	`dao_at_work`	`yes.`
`20:12.24`	`Legorol`	`Kirkburn: the main issue is not the pretending to be other people`
`20:12.27`	`Legorol`	`i think it's the T3 gear`
`20:12.51`	`Kirkburn`	`Yes, GMs often have them`
`20:12.59`	`Shadowed`	`If you didn't care what happened then sure`
`20:13.01`	`Kirkburn`	`They're testing stuff normally`
`20:13.10`	`Elkano`	`what was the command to save the chat?`
`20:13.14`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (i=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net)`
`20:13.19`	`Kirkburn`	`(this is from a previous response to a similar question)`
`20:14.02`	`Kirkburn`	`I do not wish to get into a discussion of the whys and wherefores, but how on earth to hacked servers exist in the first place? How could they obtain a copy of the server code?`
`20:14.09`	`Shadowed`	`anyway, AFK a few hours!`
`20:14.22`	`Legorol`	`whoah, so Draenei and BE are the only races that will have both Pala and Shaman?`
`20:14.44`	`Legorol`	`Kirkburn: when people say hacked servers, they mean emulated servers`
`20:14.44`	`End`	`not blood elves`
`20:14.46`	`dao_at_work`	`You could reverse-engineer most of it.`
`20:14.54`	`Legorol`	`there is a whole bunch of things that the client can do if you connect to an emulated server`
`20:15.00`	`dao_at_work`	`wow is very heavily client-side.`
`20:15.01`	`Kirkburn`	`Okay, I should have said emu, not sure why I didn't`
`20:15.06`	`Legorol`	`a lot of exploration videos of regions not yet released are done like that`
`20:15.27`	`Legorol`	`you connect to emulated server, teleport to an out-of-reach zone, and run around`
`20:15.43`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge D00M_G (i=DoomGaze@74.128.147.210)`
`20:15.49`	`Legorol`	`i think they shouldn't give BE and Draenei both Pala and Shaman`
`20:15.55`	`Legorol`	`make Draenei Shaman and BE Paladin, fine by me..`
`20:16.01`	`Legorol`	`but why give both races both classes`
`20:16.03`	`End`	`BE don't get shaman`
`20:16.23`	`Kirkburn`	`They don;t`
`20:16.46`	`Kirkburn`	`Priesr, rogue, warlock, mage, pally, hunter`
`20:16.54`	`Kirkburn`	`Warrior was cut to allow hunters`
`20:17.21`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@71.216.187.14)`
`20:17.41`	`D00M_G`	`if they have any low level instances in their starting area, it might be a bitch to get a group`
`20:17.53`	`Legorol`	`Kirkburn, you are right`
`20:17.56`	`Legorol`	`but Draenei get paladin`
`20:18.14`	`Kirkburn`	`Well, you just said that was okay :)`
`20:18.16`	`Legorol`	`D00M_G, why?`
`20:18.27`	`dao_at_work`	`source?`
`20:18.27`	`Legorol`	`Kirkburn: well it's ok if one race gets one class`
`20:18.33`	`Legorol`	`but Draenei getting both is kinda meh..`
`20:18.38`	`DoomGaze3_`	`no tankage`
`20:18.54`	`End`	`I don't think Draenei should get both either`
`20:19.01`	`Kirkburn`	`dao_at_work, source for the classes?`
`20:19.10`	`Legorol`	`Pala can tank fine..`
`20:19.12`	`End`	`up until now, as far as anyone knew, they were completely shamanistic`
`20:19.12`	`dao_at_work`	`yeah, last I knew they each got the wrong one`
`20:19.29`	`Legorol`	`BE is getting Pala, no warrior`
`20:19.40`	`Kirkburn`	`See news section: http://www.wow-europe.com/en/`
`20:19.42`	`Legorol`	`Draenei is getting Pala, Shaman, Warrior`
`20:19.45`	`End`	`suddenly they are into the light and crap and stuff about elemental beings`
`20:20.01`	`Kaso`	`what the hell a race with no warrior %_%`
`20:20.07`	`Kirkburn`	`End, we knew very very little about the dranei pre BC`
`20:20.13`	`Kirkburn`	`*draenei`
`20:20.36`	`Beladona`	`End: the deformed Draenei were shamanistic. The original were not`
`20:20.51`	`Beladona`	`this new race is reminiscent of the Draenei before they fell`
`20:21.18`	`Kirkburn`	`That's some messed up semantics there`
`20:21.23`	`End`	`well...`
`20:21.27`	`Beladona`	`I see them as Paladin sure, but shamans are kinda silly`
`20:21.34`	`Kirkburn`	`The draenei before they fell were eredar`
`20:21.37`	`Beladona`	`they changed the lore a little to make it so the new races could be both`
`20:21.41`	`End`	`the orcs pre-fall were shaman`
`20:22.11`	`End`	`and it was due to the orc warlocks weilding fel magic that supposedly caused the fall of the draenei`
`20:22.26`	`Kirkburn`	`Okay, what 'fall' are we talking about here?`
`20:22.33`	`End`	`good question`
`20:22.36`	`Tain`	`Draenei fall down go boom.`
`20:22.41`	`End`	`blizzard's lore is very confused`
`20:22.44`	`Hexarobi`	`ches`
`20:22.46`	`Hexarobi`	`chess`
`20:22.49`	`Beladona`	`when outland was taken over / destroyed, and the remaining Draenei were deformed`
`20:22.51`	`Kirkburn`	`We're making it worse ...`
`20:22.58`	`DoomGaze3`	`OH NOES! E3 is DEAD!`
`20:23.03`	`Hexarobi`	`so what do yall think an appropriate wow themed rook would be?`
`20:23.16`	`Kirkburn`	`When Draenor was destroyed, your mean ;)`
`20:23.19`	`Legorol`	`Otherwise, a large portion of UK players won't be able to log on to the new forums when they roll them out..`
`20:23.22`	`Beladona`	`yeah`
`20:23.30`	`Beladona`	`same difference`
`20:23.35`	`dao_at_work`	`if the forums don't work with a "transparent" proxy, then it's not that transparent, now is it?`
`20:23.37`	`Kirkburn`	`DoomGaze3, that's not very silent :P`
`20:23.37`	`Beladona`	`it became what we know as outland`
`20:23.53`	`DoomGaze3`	`Did you guys hear about this?`
`20:24.02`	`Kirkburn`	`Yes.`
`20:24.06`	`Kirkburn`	`:)`
`20:24.20`	`DoomGaze3`	`I never even got to go...`
`20:24.22`	`Kirkburn`	`If it means more money for the developers, woo`
`20:25.05`	`Kirkburn`	`Neither did 99.99% of the world population =)`
`20:25.34`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge ven (n=ven@dynadsl-080-228-65-215.ewetel.net)`
`20:30.37`	`Legorol`	`dao_at_work: it is as transparent as it can be`
`20:30.48`	`Legorol`	`but you can't fake source IP address of a connection`
`20:30.58`	`dao_at_work`	`says who?`
`20:31.04`	`Legorol`	`says the way TCP/IP works`
`20:31.12`	`dao_at_work`	`neg`
`20:31.21`	`Legorol`	`the majority of ISPs in the UK use transparent proxies unfortunately`
`20:31.30`	`dao_at_work`	`not transparent.`
`20:31.35`	`dao_at_work`	`maybe translucent :)`
`20:31.47`	`Legorol`	`"transparent proxy" is a technical term, with a well defined meaning`
`20:32.00`	`Legorol`	`it is not transparent, because it changes the source IP. nevertheless that's what they are called`
`20:32.01`	`dao_at_work`	`yes, and if it's opaque enough to not work, then it's not transparent.`
`20:32.09`	`dao_at_work`	`nein`
`20:32.22`	`Legorol`	`i don't understand which part you disagree with`
`20:32.33`	`dao_at_work`	`that you keep calling these opaque proxies transparent.`
`20:32.40`	`Legorol`	`it's a nomenclature, a matter of fact, that these servers are called "transparent proxies"`
`20:32.47`	`dao_at_work`	`that's wrong.`
`20:32.48`	`Legorol`	`i am not calling them that, the industry calls them that`
`20:32.54`	`dao_at_work`	`No, not really.`
`20:33.00`	`MentalPower`	`hes nit-picking at the dictionary definition of transparent versus the industry definition of a transparent prozy`
`20:33.05`	`dao_at_work`	`Considering that I'm in "the industry"`
`20:33.10`	`dao_at_work`	`and we do make transparent proxies.`
`20:33.19`	`Legorol`	`sigh`
`20:33.46`	`Legorol`	`it doesn't matter what you make or not make, if the ISP, the manuals, the documentation, the forums and websites and the users all call it that way, then it's irrelevant`
`20:33.59`	`dao_at_work`	`It's mislabeled.`
`20:34.00`	`End`	`afaik, transparent just means traffic goes through it entirely automatically without user configuration`
`20:34.05`	`dao_at_work`	`No.`
`20:34.09`	`Legorol`	`dao_at_work: i have completely agreed that it is mislabelled`
`20:34.16`	`Legorol`	`i have never contested that point, i even told you so`
`20:34.16`	`End`	`I've never heard it used in any other contect`
`20:34.21`	`End`	`s/contect/context/`
`20:34.46`	`Legorol`	`however, i will keep referring to them as "transparent proxies" becuase that label is applied to these servers.`
`20:34.50`	`dao_at_work`	`transparent means that it's mangled sufficiently to work without changing how the user behaves. If the website is entirely broken, then the user must change her behavior, and thus the proxy is not transparent.`
`20:34.56`	`krka`	`look, you can't just automatically disagree with everything in an argument`
`20:34.57`	`krka`	`yes you can!`
`20:34.59`	`krka`	`no you can't!`
`20:35.05`	`Legorol`	`<3 krka`
`20:35.08`	`Legorol`	`you just made my day`
`20:35.25`	`krka`	`sorry, paraphrased, my memory isn't what it never used to be`
`20:35.48`	`Legorol`	`dao_at_work: i don't understand your point`
`20:36.07`	`Legorol`	`these "transparent" proxies work without user configuration, and they do mess up the operation of some website`
`20:36.11`	`Legorol`	`websites`
`20:36.11`	`dao_at_work`	`transparent means that the user doesn't know or care that it's there.`
`20:36.15`	`Legorol`	`which is not the site's fault`
`20:36.21`	`krka`	`A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.`
`20:36.22`	`krka`	`M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'`
`20:36.22`	`krka`	`A: Yes it is!`
`20:36.22`	`krka`	`M: No it isn't!`
`20:36.25`	`DoomGaze3`	`you still there mentalpower?`
`20:36.29`	`dao_at_work`	`if it's breaking certain websites, then de facto, it is not transparent.`
`20:36.39`	`Legorol`	`dao_at_work, please read what i said`
`20:36.40`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge pyfen (n=Rozr@unaffiliated/fenderx)`
`20:36.43`	`Legorol`	`i completely agreed with you on that`
`20:36.46`	`dao_at_work`	`It's like if I sold you a transparent windshield`
`20:36.52`	`dao_at_work`	`and then you got into a car accident.`
`20:36.55`	`dao_at_work`	`and then I said`
`20:36.59`	`Legorol`	`i agreed that the use of the word "transparent" is not in its dictionary meaning`
`20:37.02`	`Gryphen`	`/ignore`
`20:37.04`	`dao_at_work`	`"well it's transparent, except for trucks. you can't see trucks through it."`
`20:37.08`	`MentalPower`	`DoomGaze3: yes, but not for long`
`20:37.10`	`krka`	`Look, if you agree with him, it's hardly an argument at all!`
`20:37.10`	`MentalPower`	`whatsup?`
`20:37.20`	`DoomGaze3`	`what pastey was that function?`
`20:37.26`	`DoomGaze3`	`power went out, lost my work`
`20:37.26`	`dao_at_work`	`I'm saying it's not even the "industry" definition.`
`20:37.30`	`Legorol`	`dao_at_work: i completely agree. Nevertheless, these things are called transparent`
`20:37.32`	`Mikk`	`"transparent" describes the network operation of a proxy. you do not get to whine about how it treats the application layer data. end of discussion. kthxbai.`
`20:37.52`	`dao_at_work`	`Apparently not.`
`20:38.03`	`Legorol`	`Mikk: yes and no`
`20:38.12`	`Legorol`	`the term is liberally applied to proxies which are not, in fact, transparent`
`20:38.16`	`Legorol`	`that's the whole point`
`20:38.18`	`DoomGaze3`	`nm, it's on here still`
`20:38.18`	`MentalPower`	`http://pastey.net/60`
`20:38.29`	`DoomGaze3`	`right on the dam main pagie`
`20:38.30`	`dao_at_work`	`exactly.`
`20:38.33`	`DoomGaze3`	`<--- dumbass`
`20:38.51`	`Legorol`	`and since the term is applied (incorrectly) by a large number of people, in order to make myself be understood by these people, i have to use the same terminology`
`20:38.52`	`Legorol`	`that's all`
`20:38.56`	`Mikk`	`if a proxy requires configuration of the end nodes, it is, by definition, not transparent`
`20:38.58`	`MentalPower`	`ok, out to take a test`
`20:39.00`	`MentalPower`	`later folks`
`20:39.09`	`Legorol`	`Mikk: i beg you, scroll back up and read what's been said`
`20:39.27`	`Mikk`	`I can ask Marcus Ranum to come over here and explain it to you in detail if you like. He bloody invented the word :-P`
`20:39.34`	`Legorol`	`sigh`
`20:39.40`	`Legorol`	`i am not disagreeing with you`
`20:40.01`	`Legorol`	`you forgot Jesus`
`20:40.03`	`pyfen`	`anyone ever used luasql befor?`
`20:40.04`	`AnduinLothar`	`cthulu, eh?`
`20:40.08`	`dao_at_work`	`f that guy, he wallhax.`
`20:40.36`	`dao_at_work`	`http://www.blizzard.com/wow/screenshot.aspx?ImageIndex=48&Set=64`
`20:41.06`	`Legorol`	`btw, is it possible to write an HTTP proxy that is truly transparent?`
`20:41.07`	`krka`	`don't think many people here have used Lua other than in WoW or vanilla lua in commandline`
`20:41.24`	`dao_at_work`	`Probably not.`
`20:41.47`	`Mikk`	`It is. But you defeat the entire purpose.`
`20:41.52`	`Mikk`	`That's called a plug gw.`
`20:42.01`	`Mikk`	`Which means it's not an HTTP proxy any more`
`20:42.40`	`Legorol`	`well would it be able to intercept outgoing HTTP packets, and return cached data if it has it?`
`20:42.40`	`Legorol`	`pretending to be coming from the real site you are trying to connect to`
`20:42.45`	`Legorol`	`and, on the other side, if it doesn't have the data cached,`
`20:42.50`	`Legorol`	`send out on a source IP matching yours`
`20:42.57`	`Mikk`	`Even the act of returning cached data makes it "untransparent" by that definition and will break stupid web sites`
`20:43.14`	`Legorol`	`that depends, if it can verify that it's returning identical data..`
`20:43.27`	`Mikk`	`Hehe. Yeah, but then what's the point of caching :-)`
`20:43.40`	`Legorol`	`you can verify using hashes, expiry dates etc.`
`20:43.44`	`End`	`well, you could ask the site if there is new data`
`20:43.48`	`Legorol`	`but then there will be some sites that don't work`
`20:43.53`	`Mikk`	`Aye.`
`20:43.59`	`Legorol`	`however, that'd be a very small number of sites`
`20:44.05`	`Legorol`	`altering the source IP has a far greater effect`
`20:44.10`	`Legorol`	`and breaks a lot more sites`
`20:44.11`	`End`	`yeah, it's somewhat limited, and better left client side anyways`
`20:44.47`	`Mikk`	`Ah, you're mostly worried about changing the source IP?`
`20:45.02`	`Mikk`	`Yeah, it's totally possible to write a proxy for any protocol that does not alter any L3/L4 info`
`20:45.15`	`Mikk`	`Heck, it's even possible to write one that doesn't change L2 info :-P`
`20:46.09`	`Cide`	`oh, Mikk`
`20:46.18`	`Mikk`	`Though most companies will want to NAT. Getting enough IPs to segment your internal network in a tolerable way doesn't happen very often any more :-(`
`20:46.33`	`Mikk`	`ye?`
`20:47.30`	`Cide`	`you've been working a fair amount of time on figuring out wow's chat message handling, right?`
`20:47.49`	`Mikk`	`i suppose?`
`20:48.27`	`Mikk`	`having implemented their API in wowbench + statting raw network stats for different chat messages and stuff....`
`20:48.31`	`Cide`	`I'll probably not do it anyway, but let me paste what I said before!`
`20:48.36`	`Cide`	`CTRA (1.x) currently clumps messages that are short enough together, so that they're sent as one (message1#message2#message3#...#messageN) - implementing that is kinda annoying, but do you think it's worth it?hmm, since Mikk isn't here, maybe someone else can offer some input... CTRA (1.x) currently clumps messages that are short enough together, so that they're sent as one (message1#message2#message3#...#messageN) - implementing that is`
`20:48.41`	`Cide`	`...`
`20:48.45`	`Cide`	`CTRA (1.x) currently clumps messages that are short enough together, so that they're sent as one (message1#message2#message3#...#messageN) - implementing that is kinda annoying, but do you think it's worth it?`
`20:48.52`	`Cide`	`ignore the last one, I apparently pasted it 5 times over or so`
`20:49.11`	`Mikk`	`it will conserve bandwidth`
`20:49.21`	`Mikk`	`"worth it" is a function of how much you're sending in the first place`
`20:49.25`	`Cide`	`how much?`
`20:49.31`	`Mikk`	`each message incurs about a 40 byte overhead on the receiving side`
`20:49.40`	`Mikk`	`20-30ish on the sending side`
`20:50.03`	`Kirov`	`what kind of damage does the gfind cause though?`
`20:50.24`	`Mikk`	`also, it seems that there's quite a CPU overhead related to the processing of each messages in the game client`
`20:50.30`	`Mikk`	`I don't see it on my own box`
`20:50.44`	`Mikk`	`But AL was doing some testing just now and saw nasty FPS drops on this poor box`
`20:50.47`	`Kirov`	`Obviously no bandwidth penalty, but a gfind on a message with 5-6 parts could add up`
`20:51.12`	`Mikk`	`It's quite possible that the gfind is a lesser penalty than the per-processing overhead in the client`
`20:51.16`	`Mikk`	`But I can't really test that on my box`
`20:51.19`	`Mikk`	`Need a crappied box`
`20:51.20`	`Kirov`	`lua's string functions are fairly woeful in the performance department.`
`20:51.24`	`Mikk`	`crappier*`
`20:51.41`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge cogwheel (n=chatzill@intra.kistlerwine.com)`
`20:51.59`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge kritzi (n=kritzi@81-223-113-105.dynamic.adsl-line.inode.at)`
`20:52.25`	`kritzi`	`hi there`
`20:52.54`	`End`	`hellllo there`
`20:53.12`	`kritzi`	`how do i remove a key from a table. table.remove doesn't seem to work`
`20:53.27`	`Mikk`	`what's the key?`
`20:53.28`	`Cide`	`but yeah, I'm already doing 1-2 string.find call(s) per message`
`20:53.46`	`Mikk`	`integers can be removed with table.remove. everything else needs to be done with table[key] = nil`
`20:54.16`	`pyfen`	`I'm printing out contents of a table using : for x in array["table"] do for y in array['table'][x] do for z in array['table'][x][y] do print(array['table'][x][y][z]) end end end but part way through the table there is a value thats "http://somelinktosomewehre.com/something/something" and that line faults with error: attempt to call string value`
`20:54.20`	`pyfen`	`anyone have any insight?`
`20:54.39`	`Beladona`	`array?`
`20:54.57`	`pyfen`	`yes its an array/table`
`20:54.59`	`kritzi`	`i have a array like TitanMovableData = { MinimapCluster = { ... } ... } and i want to remove the "MinimapCluster"-key`
`20:55.08`	`Beladona`	`is this lua or php?`
`20:55.12`	`pyfen`	`lua`
`20:55.20`	`Beladona`	`thought it was for x in table`
`20:55.22`	`End`	`pyfen: I dunno, you could try sticking pairs() in there`
`20:55.29`	`Beladona`	`ie for x in myTableName`
`20:55.50`	`cogwheel`	`kritzi - as Mikk said, you would do TitanMoveableData["MinimapCluster"] = nil`
`20:56.03`	`pyfen`	`Beladona, I"m parsing a lua array from a savedvariables file, in lua`
`20:56.13`	`pyfen`	`end whats pairs do?`
`20:56.35`	`cogwheel`	`if you don't know what pairs does, you should probably spend a little more time reading the lua book :P`
`20:56.59`	`krka`	`i've seen several movies that shows in great detail what pairs do`
`20:57.09`	`kritzi`	`yes, this generates a error message next time the original addon wants to look at TitanMoveableData["MinimapCluster"]["whatever"] from a foreach loop`
`20:57.12`	`Beladona`	`are your table keys integers?`
`20:58.12`	`Beladona`	`coulldn't pyfen use table.foreachi(r,print)`
`20:58.14`	`cogwheel`	`kritzi, that's because you're removing the key... you'll have to check for MinimapCluster's presence before trying to access it.`
`20:58.57`	`pyfen`	`Beladona, yes I realie that now`
`20:59.55`	`Iriel`	`I'm late to the message party, but gfind may not be the best choice`
`21:01.23`	`Beladona`	`welcome back Iriel, and with that, I must head home =P`
`21:01.31`	`Iriel`	`though the messages themselves will be causing garbage creation so it's hard to say which is more evil.`
`21:02.29`	`kritzi`	`hmm, i think i have another problem. i have to remove the key from a secound table. but i have no idea where thos table is generated`
`21:02.53`	`Hexarobi`	`anyone wanna play a game of chess? ill come to your server`
`21:06.41`	`cogwheel`	`kritzi, i don't quite understand your question...`
`21:08.37`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Flyoc_ (n=flyin_do@APlessis-Bouchard-153-1-6-115.w83-112.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`21:09.17`	`kritzi`	`i am writing a addon which stopps titanpannel moving the minimap. i have removed the minimapcluster from the TitanMoveableData list, but ther is still somewhere the information that the "MinimapCluster" key should exist in the table`
`21:09.26`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (i=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl)`
`21:10.22`	`Tain`	`I ripped the frame moving stuff out of Titan a while back but I don't remember where everything was.`
`21:10.48`	`Tain`	`I would humbly suggest trying FuBar as an alternative to Titan Panel though.`
`21:10.56`	`ckknight`	`I made JostleLib, which is an embeddable that does Titan-esque moving down`
`21:11.00`	`ckknight`	`but more powerful`
`21:11.13`	`Tain`	`Yeah, he wants to stop it from doing that.`
`21:11.25`	`ckknight`	`and Titan, if they want to, could easily use Jostle`
`21:15.39`	`pyfen`	`how would I remove just the last 3 entries in a table`
`21:16.08`	`Mikk`	`for i=1,3 do tremove(mytable, getn(mytable)); end`
`21:16.17`	`Mikk`	`assuming it's integer indexed`
`21:16.25`	`Mikk`	`if it's indexed by something else, there is no "last"`
`21:16.26`	`krka`	`somehow i think there's some weird competion here and the people with highest lib/addon ratio wins`
`21:16.44`	`Mikk`	`almost. it's lines of code.`
`21:17.14`	`Hexarobi`	`what about number of very obscure bugs?`
`21:17.14`	`pyfen`	`like if Ihave a table that is { <table> , <table>, <table>, <table>, "somestring", "soestring" , "somestring" }`
`21:17.16`	`Mikk`	`at least if i get to count the .xml.lua generated from xml by wowbench :-P`
`21:17.22`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower\|AFK_ (n=MentalPo@host-70-45-82-92.onelinkpr.net)`
`21:17.23`	`Mikk`	`pyfen: there is no "last" in that table`
`21:17.32`	`Mikk`	`the order will change as you add more stuff to it`
`21:17.34`	`pyfen`	`is ther a way to remove any string? or to skip them`
`21:17.35`	`krka`	`sure this`
`21:17.41`	`krka`	`that's an integer keyed table mikk`
`21:17.42`	`pyfen`	`I"m not adding to it`
`21:17.45`	`Mikk`	`oh`
`21:17.53`	`Hexarobi`	`my chess game crashes if you take a black rook with a white bishop, only if the rook is on e4, and the bishop is attacking from the bottom right`
`21:18.02`	`pyfen`	`Mikk, this is a savedvariables file`
`21:18.03`	`Mikk`	`o.O`
`21:18.07`	`MoonWolf`	`Hexarobi, lol.`
`21:18.09`	`pyfen`	`I'm reading it OUTSIDE of the game`
`21:18.13`	`Mikk`	`pyfen: just do what I pasted then`
`21:18.21`	`pyfen`	`I see what you said`
`21:18.21`	`Mikk`	`oh.. you want to change the SV table?`
`21:18.28`	`pyfen`	`I dont undersatnd, why 1,3?`
`21:18.38`	`Hexarobi`	`yo mental`
`21:18.41`	`Mikk`	`repeat "remove the last table entry" three times`
`21:18.46`	`pyfen`	`oooo ok`
`21:21.39`	`Hexarobi`	`anyone up for a game o chess?`
`21:22.34`	`pyfen`	`Mikk, getn always returns a nil value`
`21:23.56`	`Mikk`	`er`
`21:23.57`	`DoomGaze3`	`how do I dress up and strip an item link?`
`21:23.57`	`Mikk`	`if it does, your table doesn't look like you said it does`
`21:23.57`	`krka`	`it should never return a nil value`
`21:24.00`	`krka`	`never ever`
`21:24.28`	`AnduinLothar`	`LFMod: full body 3d modle of your target you can drag around`
`21:24.35`	`Mikk`	`krka: you're right. you'll get 0 or error`
`21:24.57`	`krka`	`anyone want to see my old homework chess?`
`21:25.03`	`krka`	`it has warcraft 2 graphics`
`21:25.07`	`MoonWolf`	`cool`
`21:25.10`	`MoonWolf`	`show show show`
`21:25.26`	`pyfen`	`o wait I think I was 1 step to far in 1 sec`
`21:25.42`	`krka`	`http://kristofer.no-ip.info:8080/~krka/tmp/Chess.jar`
`21:25.44`	`krka`	`hmm... cool`
`21:25.53`	`krka`	`this was actually better than i remembered it`
`21:26.01`	`krka`	`it went a bit overboard on the homework i think :/`
`21:26.19`	`krka`	`i spent time cutting/pasting graphics from the warcraft map editor`
`21:26.55`	`krka`	`it even has correct rules`
`21:28.28`	`Hexarobi`	`hehehe`
`21:28.33`	`Hexarobi`	`can i steal the graphics krka?`
`21:28.54`	`krka`	`they're not mine in the first place`
`21:28.59`	`Hexarobi`	`cool`
`21:29.03`	`krka`	`in other words, yes`
`21:29.15`	`Hexarobi`	`if blizzard gets mad ill tell em u said it was ok`
`21:29.31`	`Hexarobi`	`"no its cool. krka ok'd it"`
`21:29.42`	`Hexarobi`	`thats totally sweet ;)`
`21:30.38`	`krka`	`my chess includes replay (step back forward), show legal moves, et.c.`
`21:30.54`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Karen@CPE00045a2bfcbc-CM000f212f84be.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`21:31.04`	`Hexarobi`	`werent there heroes in the wc2 expansion pack?`
`21:31.19`	`Hexarobi`	`ive got replay in wow chess, and move validation`
`21:31.37`	`Hexarobi`	`i could do show legal moves`
`21:33.00`	`krka`	`i wonder if i did rockade... or whatever it's called in english`
`21:33.26`	`krka`	`ah, castling`
`21:33.29`	`krka`	`damn i rock`
`21:33.49`	`DoomGaze3`	`would string.find(vanillaLink, 'item:%d:%d:%d:%d') give me a stripped item link?`
`21:33.51`	`krka`	`i even made a network edition`
`21:33.59`	`Hexarobi`	`hehehe`
`21:34.08`	`Kirov`	`DoomGaze3 - not quite`
`21:34.09`	`Hexarobi`	`ya i just did the castling code for mine this morning`
`21:34.20`	`Hexarobi`	`did you do en passant?`
`21:34.29`	`Kirov`	`DoomGaze3 - string.find(vanillaLink, 'item:%d+:%d+:%d+:%d+')`
`21:34.43`	`DoomGaze3`	`what's the + do?`
`21:34.53`	`Kirov`	`DoomGaze3 - %d assumes a single digit, %d+ assumes one or more`
`21:35.13`	`DoomGaze3`	`beauty. Thanks Kirov.`
`21:36.19`	`pyfen`	`no I told you exactly hw it is Mikk`
`21:36.24`	`pyfen`	`and its not returning nil now`
`21:36.46`	`pyfen`	`its returning: bad argument to getn (table expected, got string)`
`21:37.11`	`Mikk`	`then you're obviously giving it a string variable, not a table variable`
`21:37.15`	`pyfen`	`likeI said, the array/table at this point consists of table table table table table string string string`
`21:37.19`	`krka`	`Hexarobi: yup, i did everythnig`
`21:37.19`	`pyfen`	`I told you that!`
`21:37.24`	`pyfen`	`like if Ihave a table that is { <table> , <table>, <table>, <table>, "somestring", "soestring" , "somestring" }`
`21:37.27`	`pyfen`	`see`
`21:37.29`	`pyfen`	`that waht I said earlier`
`21:37.41`	`pyfen`	`and you said to do what you pasted`
`21:37.55`	`pyfen`	`I wana remove the strings :(`
`21:37.56`	`krka`	`i even have a class for PassantMove`
`21:38.09`	`Mikk`	`tell me the name of your table`
`21:38.13`	`Mikk`	`the one that contains those things`
`21:38.22`	`krka`	`damn... i actually wrote pretty OO before`
`21:38.28`	`krka`	`lua ruined me`
`21:38.37`	`Mikk`	`OO is overrated :-P`
`21:38.41`	`Hexarobi`	`hehehe`
`21:38.53`	`Hexarobi`	`ya, i did it without OO`
`21:39.02`	`pyfen`	`the variable for it?`
`21:39.06`	`Hexarobi`	`its nasty ugly`
`21:39.07`	`pyfen`	`table is named: ent`
`21:39.08`	`krka`	`i have an event interface.... with a perform and undo-action`
`21:39.23`	`krka`	`and a move class... and moves are basically a series of events + some more stuff`
`21:40.18`	`krka`	`probably wouldn't be hard to refactor this into lua oo`
`21:42.33`	`krka`	`hm, my pawn-code is pretty ugly`
`21:43.02`	`krka`	`big if-else thingy :/`
`21:47.09`	`pyfen`	`hehe`
`21:47.14`	`pyfen`	`Mikk, tricky eh?`
`21:48.29`	`Mikk`	`pyfen: for i=getn(ent),1,-1 do if(type(ent[i])=="string") then tremove(ent, i); end; end`
`21:48.36`	`cogwheel`	`pyfen: if type(variable) == "table" then dotablestuff else dostringstuff end`
`21:49.42`	`pyfen`	`lol which doI w=use?`
`21:49.55`	`Mikk`	`mine`
`21:50.01`	`Mikk`	`to do exactly what you asked for`
`21:50.04`	`Mikk`	`"remove all strings"`
`21:50.08`	`krka`	`heh, my valid moves-checker is pretty simple... perform the move, see if the king is checked, if so, it's not valid, finally undo the move`
`21:50.15`	`Mikk`	`i also suggest reading up on how Lua tables work`
`21:50.25`	`Mikk`	`http://lua-users.org/wiki/TablesTutorial`
`21:51.17`	`krka`	`reading is for noobs`
`21:51.43`	`Mikk`	`that is correct`
`21:51.54`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@proxy-ce3.disney.com)`
`21:55.45`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ven (n=ven@dynadsl-080-228-65-215.ewetel.net)`
`22:02.33`	`pyfen`	`not working so far.....`
`22:03.08`	`pyfen`	`bad argument to getn table expected, got string`
`22:03.24`	`pyfen`	`onthe line that has the first: for i=getn(ent),1,-1`
`22:03.59`	`cogwheel`	`that means that ent is a string, not a table...`
`22:04.40`	`pyfen`	`o`
`22:04.41`	`pyfen`	`:)`
`22:05.40`	`pyfen`	`I'm so used to perl that I assumed if I did for x in table do ent = table[x] that ent would then be a table`
`22:06.11`	`cogwheel`	`table[x] is an element of table.`
`22:06.11`	`krka`	`unlike perl, lua makes sense`
`22:06.40`	`End`	`hey, perl makes sense to demented minds!`
`22:06.49`	`Hexarobi`	`hehe`
`22:07.00`	`pyfen`	`hold on:)`
`22:07.12`	`pyfen`	`cogwheel: yes but this is a table of tables I thought`
`22:07.14`	`Abenadi`	`can I use os.date() in a WoW addon?`
`22:07.20`	`kergoth`	`perl makes sense regardless. its consistent within itself. that doesnt make it pleasant, or easy, but it does make sense`
`22:07.25`	`pyfen`	`if I print table[x] I get Table 00545252358328`
`22:07.29`	`kergoth`	`Abenadi: no, theres a seperate function GetTime`
`22:07.38`	`Abenadi`	`but is there a way to get the date?`
`22:07.46`	`kergoth`	`..`
`22:07.50`	`kergoth`	`dunno`
`22:07.51`	`Abenadi`	`I mean, gettime just returns the system uptime`
`22:07.53`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (n=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net)`
`22:08.09`	`Abenadi`	`but what about if I want a unique time-ordered value regardless of server resets`
`22:08.48`	`krka`	`pretty sure we can get some date thingy`
`22:08.50`	`krka`	`like os.date`
`22:09.45`	`cogwheel`	`pyfen: is it possible that table[x] could be a string some times and a table other times? if table = { table, table, string, string }, then table[x] will be a table or a string depending on x`
`22:10.03`	`kergoth`	`Abenadi: perhaps you want GetGameTime. see http://www.wowwiki.com/World_of_Warcraft_API`
`22:10.57`	`Iriel`	`We can't get server date`
`22:10.58`	`Abenadi`	`thanks kergoth, but no. getgametime is hours and minutes`
`22:11.01`	`Iriel`	`we can get local date, server time`
`22:11.02`	`Abenadi`	`can i get client date?`
`22:11.05`	`Iriel`	`and local itme`
`22:11.09`	`Iriel`	`local being 'client'`
`22:11.17`	`Abenadi`	`what do I use for that please?`
`22:11.20`	`Iriel`	`os.date`
`22:11.28`	`Iriel`	`except it's just 'date' in wow`
`22:11.58`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower\|AFK_ (n=MentalPo@host-70-45-82-92.onelinkpr.net)`
`22:11.58`	`Abenadi`	`so date is a function or a global variable?`
`22:12.12`	`Iriel`	`function`
`22:12.18`	`Abenadi`	`thank you.`
`22:12.20`	`AnduinLothar`	`GetDate() ?`
`22:12.22`	`krka`	`both!`
`22:12.35`	`krka`	`well, os a a global variable, os.date is a member in os`
`22:13.02`	`krka`	`functions are variables too!`
`22:13.16`	`Abenadi`	`: )`
`22:13.23`	`Hexarobi`	`grr i changed the stupid folder the pictures are in and broke it somehow ;)`
`22:13.26`	`Abenadi`	`ok now I see it http://www.wowwiki.com/Lua_functions - missed it there before`
`22:16.28`	`pyfen`	`woot cogwheel your idea worked`
`22:16.29`	`pyfen`	`thanks`
`22:16.47`	`cogwheel`	`glad i could help :)`
`22:27.49`	`Cide`	`hmm, table.remove(tbl, 1) must be more expensive than table.remove(tbl), given that "tbl" has more than one element, correct?`
`22:28.34`	`clad\|dinner`	`are we talking an array?`
`22:28.46`	`Cide`	`yes`
`22:28.55`	`clad\|dinner`	`i'd have to look at the implementation, but they may be similar complexity.`
`22:29.15`	`Cide`	`not sure how intensive it is to reorder them`
`22:29.23`	`clad\|dinner`	`they may use tricks internally`
`22:29.28`	`clad\|dinner`	`like they do for many of the "array" behaviors.`
`22:29.29`	`Cide`	`yeah, hence my question :)`
`22:29.31`	`clad\|dinner`	`thats what i'm wondering about :P`
`22:29.59`	`clad\|dinner`	`.lemme look`
`22:31.28`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge zespri_work (n=andrews@202.180.72.39)`
`22:31.33`	`clad\|dinner`	`its a linked list`
`22:31.34`	`clad\|dinner`	`should be free`
`22:31.39`	`clad\|dinner`	`or O(1)`
`22:31.44`	`Cide`	`ah, cool`
`22:31.45`	`Cide`	`thanks :)`
`22:32.09`	`clad\|dinner`	`someone else may see otherwise, but it looks like it uses internal "position" counters to account for it.`
`22:32.11`	`clad\|dinner`	`i'll keep playing tho =)`
`22:32.56`	`zespri_work`	`clad did you reveove my tell?`
`22:33.01`	`zespri_work`	`*receive`
`22:33.01`	`clad\|dinner`	`reveove?`
`22:33.01`	`clad\|dinner`	`yes.`
`22:33.12`	`clad\|dinner`	`network is having issue, that's all i know`
`22:33.12`	`zespri_work`	`are you a wrong person? =)`
`22:33.34`	`zespri_work`	`cheers. I just didn't get an answer, so maiking sure`
`22:33.59`	`clad\|dinner`	`=)`
`22:34.01`	`clad\|dinner`	`np`
`22:35.24`	`AnduinLothar`	`is there something that ads simple channel shortcuts w/o a zillion other chat options?`
`22:35.30`	`AnduinLothar`	`like /lfg`
`22:35.41`	`AnduinLothar`	`or /gen`
`22:36.09`	`AnduinLothar`	`so i don't duplicate work mostly`
`22:40.14`	`clad\|dinner`	`Cide: I lied =)`
`22:40.23`	`clad\|dinner`	`Sorry :P`
`22:40.36`	`Cide`	`so, more expensive? :)`
`22:40.48`	`End`	`you mean these 4 lines?`
`22:40.49`	`End`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:40.49`	`End`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:40.49`	`End`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:40.49`	`End`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:40.52`	`clad\|dinner`	`Cide: table.remove(tbl, pos) is more expensive, because it manually reorders`
`22:41.01`	`clad\|dinner`	`End: Yes.. I was in the wrong file.. hence why I came back`
`22:41.01`	`clad\|dinner`	`O.o`
`22:41.03`	`Cide`	`alright`
`22:41.07`	`Cide`	`I'll just pop the last one then`
`22:41.17`	`Cide`	`thanks again!`
`22:41.22`	`clad\|dinner`	`lol np`
`22:41.23`	`AnduinLothar`	`meh?`
`22:41.50`	`clad\|dinner`	`meh? =)`
`22:41.53`	`End`	`meh!`
`22:41.58`	`Cide`	`mehehehe?`
`22:42.02`	`AnduinLothar`	`table.remove being expensive?`
`22:42.07`	`Cide`	`not expensive`
`22:42.14`	`End`	`table.remove shifts`
`22:42.15`	`Cide`	`'more' expensive`
`22:42.18`	`clad\|dinner`	`AnduinLothar: table.remove(tbl, pos) is more expensive than table.remove(tbl)`
`22:42.22`	`clad\|dinner`	`but they do different things.`
`22:42.40`	`AnduinLothar`	`unless pos happens to be the last digit`
`22:42.42`	`AnduinLothar`	`er`
`22:42.44`	`End`	`well yes`
`22:42.47`	`clad\|dinner`	`End: I was looking at the internal implementation of tables, but that's not what we have exposed to us.`
`22:42.48`	`clad\|dinner`	`aye`
`22:42.48`	`Cide`	`I have a pool of available frames`
`22:42.58`	`Cide`	`I popped the first one, but I might as well use the last one`
`22:43.01`	`clad\|dinner`	`aye.. grab the last =)`
`22:43.09`	`End`	`clad\|dinner: ahhh, I looked there first too`
`22:43.19`	`End`	`then I was like...maybe I should go in the other direction`
`22:43.25`	`clad\|dinner`	`i really want to write half the libraries i have in c.`
`22:43.28`	`clad\|dinner`	`the lua api is so sexay`
`22:43.30`	`AnduinLothar`	`it just depends on what you do more`
`22:43.36`	`clad\|dinner`	`specially auxlib`
`22:44.14`	`AnduinLothar`	`know a good way to eat proc time... insert at 1 and remove at 1`
`22:45.45`	`Cide`	`why remove? while ( true ) do insert(); end`
`22:46.00`	`Cide`	`;)`
`22:47.54`	`Cide`	`ack. no wonder it errored; it didn't even load the file`
`22:48.09`	`Cide`	`s/errored/didn't error/`
`22:49.48`	`JoshBorke`	`Cide: so how do you know what frame you're popping from your list? keep a reference of how many are there?`
`22:49.57`	`Cide`	`no need to`
`22:50.05`	`Cide`	`it's a list of unused frames`
`22:50.11`	`Cide`	`just pick an arbitrary frame and use it`
`22:50.16`	`Cide`	`they're all the same`
`22:50.20`	`JoshBorke`	`hm, indeed`
`22:50.47`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin (i=Wobin@218-214-59-86.people.net.au)`
`22:50.49`	`Cide`	`so when someone joins the raid, check if there are frames in the pool. if so, get one from there. otherwise, create a new one`
`22:50.54`	`Hexarobi`	`anybody here good with tga alpha channels?`
`22:51.02`	`Hexarobi`	`www.hexarobi.com/alphachannel.jpg`
`22:51.13`	`Hexarobi`	`on the left is my alpha channel, on the right is whats actually being rendered`
`22:51.16`	`Hexarobi`	`with 100% ui scale`
`22:51.37`	`End`	`oh noes!`
`22:51.38`	`Hexarobi`	`they arent to scale, but one is solid on and off transparancy, and the other had shades of grey`
`22:51.40`	`End`	`warcraft II`
`22:52.33`	`Hexarobi`	`www.hexarobi.com/wowChess-warcraft2.jpg`
`22:52.44`	`End`	`neat`
`22:53.14`	`End`	`I'm not sure the queen/king pieces make much sense to me though`
`22:53.23`	`Hexarobi`	`ya`
`22:53.35`	`End`	`(I'm not sure what -would- make much sense though...)`
`22:53.35`	`Hexarobi`	`i need figure out how to rip the sprites from the expansion pack`
`22:53.38`	`Hexarobi`	`they had heroes`
`22:53.40`	`MentalPower`	`Hexarobi: DCC me the .tga file you're using`
`22:54.39`	`Hexarobi`	`are u allowing *.tga?`
`22:55.21`	`MentalPower`	`yeah`
`22:55.25`	`Hexarobi`	`www.hexarobi.com/wowChess_rl.tga`
`22:55.54`	`Abenadi`	`!ping`
`22:56.02`	`MentalPower`	`The page cannot be found`
`22:56.05`	`Hexarobi`	`www.hexarobi.com/wowChess_rl.tga.zip <-- not a zip`
`22:56.06`	`End`	`~ping`
`22:56.09`	`purl`	`pong`
`22:56.15`	`Hexarobi`	`my webserver only allows certain filetypes`
`22:56.18`	`Hexarobi`	`just rename it to tga`
`22:56.42`	`Hexarobi`	`i woonder if i can turn that off`
`22:58.17`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (i=PROFI@user-0cev737.cable.mindspring.com)`
`22:58.24`	`wereHamster`	`Hexarobi, is your chess addon alreay availale somewhere?`
`22:58.29`	`AnduinLothar`	`wowi`
`22:58.44`	`AnduinLothar`	`is it 1.12 only?`
`22:59.17`	`AnduinLothar`	`cause i hope u didn't write new chat masking code when you're gonna have to rewrite it in a few weeks`
`22:59.43`	`JoshBorke`	`he's sending all moves through whispers`
`23:00.12`	`AnduinLothar`	`visible ones?`
`23:00.22`	`AnduinLothar`	`sose that'd work for just chess moves`
`23:00.36`	`Hexarobi`	`yes were`
`23:00.51`	`Hexarobi`	`yes theyre visibile`
`23:01.09`	`Hexarobi`	`http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=5204`
`23:01.16`	`AnduinLothar`	`did you look at MiniGames first? Looks around to make sure Kirov is gone`
`23:01.19`	`Kirov`	`chess moves lend themselves well to whispers`
`23:01.26`	`AnduinLothar`	`damn!`
`23:01.28`	`JoshBorke`	`lol`
`23:01.33`	`Hexarobi`	`hehe`
`23:01.36`	`Hexarobi`	`i did`
`23:02.00`	`Hexarobi`	`the one minigames pack i found mentions that chess has been done, but isnt included because of the many dependancies`
`23:02.00`	`AnduinLothar`	`what'd you do diff other than graphics?`
`23:02.14`	`Hexarobi`	`then it says twice later on the in the readme that no one has done chess, and to send it in if you do it`
`23:02.20`	`AnduinLothar`	`heh`
`23:02.25`	`AnduinLothar`	`we did it in beta`
`23:02.30`	`AnduinLothar`	`it's in Cosmos`
`23:02.34`	`Kirov`	`AnduinLothar - see, I told you no one uses Cosmos.`
`23:02.35`	`Hexarobi`	`ah`
`23:02.37`	`Kirkburn`	`Hexarobi, can I just say that's impressive`
`23:02.41`	`JoshBorke`	`lol`
`23:02.42`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge esp\|Syn (n=ben@comsecgb.plus.com)`
`23:02.50`	`Kirkburn`	`(your chess game, just saw the screenies)`
`23:02.51`	`Kirov`	`Hexarobi - cosmosui.org`
`23:02.54`	`Hexarobi`	`=)`
`23:02.58`	`AnduinLothar`	`well no one looks in Cosmos anyway`
`23:03.07`	`AnduinLothar`	`we still have users. i know cause they whine to me`
`23:03.13`	`Shadowed`	`hehe`
`23:03.17`	`Shadowed`	`damn users`
`23:03.25`	`Kirov`	`Hexarobi - If you haven't looked at Cosmos, it's one of the biggest and oldest UI packages for WoW.`
`23:03.31`	`AnduinLothar`	`when i stop getting complaints i'll stop coding`
`23:03.48`	`AnduinLothar`	`or maybe code something i know nothing about`
`23:03.54`	`Kirov`	`(biggest in terms of users)`
`23:04.04`	`AnduinLothar`	`and prolly shear size too`
`23:04.37`	`Hexarobi`	`i used cosmos for awhile a year ago or so, but then didnt play wow for awhile and never bothered to re-dl it`
`23:04.44`	`AnduinLothar`	`MiniGames really hasn't been improved upon in over a year. I just made it so it worked using SKy`
`23:04.46`	`Kirov`	`I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Cosmos was the first mass distruted UI compilation for WoW ever, not including Blizzard's own UI`
`23:05.14`	`AnduinLothar`	`mmm, ya. before cosmos there were just individual framexml hacks distributed on forums`
`23:05.14`	`clad\|dinner`	`you wouldn't be unreasonable saying that.`
`23:05.15`	`clad\|dinner`	`at all.`
`23:05.16`	`Kirov`	`Wasn't around during the beta to know for sure.`
`23:05.45`	`AnduinLothar`	`and then i got sucked in by rewritting them all`
`23:05.47`	`Kirov`	`thottbot.com wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Cosmos`
`23:05.58`	`Hexarobi`	`hehe`
`23:06.05`	`Kirkburn`	`cladhaire, can I get your comment retoactively applied to "I'm like a god"?`
`23:06.16`	`AnduinLothar`	`O.o`
`23:06.21`	`cladhaire`	`Kirkburn: You wouldn't be unreasonable saying that.`
`23:06.26`	`Kirkburn`	`:D`
`23:06.35`	`Kirov`	`Cosmos is the only distribution of the Thottbot addon for wow.`
`23:06.40`	`Hexarobi`	`http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5562 <-- the thread where I asked if it had been done before in the minigames pack, which has still not gotten a reply`
`23:07.05`	`Kirkburn`	`Well, you can download only thottbot, but that would make you weird`
`23:07.26`	`Kirov`	`Kirkburn - if you can find the download for it, sure`
`23:07.30`	`cladhaire`	`i downloaded only thottbot.`
`23:07.30`	`cladhaire`	`=)`
`23:07.34`	`cladhaire`	`back in the daty`
`23:07.59`	`AnduinLothar`	`think thott orig made thottbot use the cosmos libs (heck, he started the libs)`
`23:08.00`	`Tain`	`I tried doing that.`
`23:08.16`	`Tain`	`It made a mess of my addons even just trying to do thottbot only.`
`23:08.19`	`Kirov`	`I hear thott eats babies`
`23:08.33`	`AnduinLothar`	`i nuked the chronos dep a while back when i made it embeddable and killed a lil funcitonality`
`23:08.36`	`Kirkburn`	`Hexarobi, are you sure you haven't had a reply?`
`23:08.55`	`AnduinLothar`	`forums? who reads forum`
`23:08.56`	`AnduinLothar`	`s`
`23:08.56`	`Hexarobi`	`hehe`
`23:09.07`	`AnduinLothar`	`lern2google`
`23:09.43`	`Kirov`	`I think this is why microsoft is loosing`
`23:09.46`	`Kirkburn`	`Hexarobi, are you planning on making the title actually fit in the window at any point? :)`
`23:09.54`	`Kirov`	`lern2msn just doesn't roll off the tongue as easily`
`23:10.05`	`AnduinLothar`	`here you go: Google WoW Chess Addon`
`23:10.10`	`AnduinLothar`	`#5: http://www.cosmosui.org/?t=14794&sid=1bd4d99055648488e3436168c1f1d97e`
`23:10.11`	`Kirkburn`	`It'll be learn2live soon`
`23:10.32`	`cladhaire`	`AnduinLothar: i remember you posting that`
`23:10.38`	`cladhaire`	`AnduinLothar: I thought you were ridiculous =)`
`23:10.41`	`Kirkburn`	`lol @ the first comment`
`23:10.54`	`Shadowed`	`haha`
`23:11.09`	`Kirkburn`	`It's like the general forums came and visited for a day`
`23:11.17`	`Kirkburn`	`Oh no, wait, they never left`
`23:11.22`	`Kirov`	`Kirkburn - the question is do you say that "lie vuh", or "lih vuh"`
`23:11.36`	`AnduinLothar`	`Cosmos Forums = the orig WoW UI Forum`
`23:12.06`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge wereHamster (n=tomc@gw.ptr-62-65-141-13.customer.ch.netstream.com)`
`23:12.09`	`AnduinLothar`	`WoW UI Forum didn't start till like december 2004 did it?`
`23:12.11`	`Kirkburn`	`Kirov, when someone manages to say live as if it has two syllables, I'll be surprised :P`
`23:12.27`	`AnduinLothar`	`l'ive`
`23:12.31`	`Kirkburn`	`Ah, I can see where the seeds of discontent were sown`
`23:13.14`	`Kirkburn`	`Thott should hire some competent coders for his cosmos team ;)`
`23:13.42`	`AnduinLothar`	`or at least start paying me`
`23:13.55`	`Kirkburn`	`=)`
`23:13.56`	`AnduinLothar`	`legal issues`
`23:14.00`	`Kirkburn`	`I still use cosmos`
`23:14.40`	`AnduinLothar`	`yeah, i stopped. I hate Cosmos.`
`23:14.58`	`Kirkburn`	`So do I, but I sold my soul to it`
`23:15.23`	`AnduinLothar`	`oi... been hanging around kirov too long, i sound like him`
`23:15.39`	`AnduinLothar`	`or is it the other way around`
`23:15.54`	`Kirov`	`lol`
`23:16.38`	`AnduinLothar`	`so, what do i call an addon that preserves channel color by name?`
`23:16.50`	`AnduinLothar`	`ChatColors is taken... ChatColor is too similar`
`23:16.55`	`Kirkburn`	`Sure you don't just have a fourth alt, AnduinLothar, and Kirov is just another one of you`
`23:16.56`	`AnduinLothar`	`ChannelColor`
`23:17.06`	`Kirkburn`	`oi, ColoUr`
`23:17.07`	`JoshBorke`	`AnduinLothar: i'd love you.`
`23:17.07`	`AnduinLothar`	`kirov, are you me?`
`23:17.21`	`AnduinLothar`	`URColor`
`23:17.48`	`Kirkburn`	`URmo- no, wait ...`
`23:17.53`	`AnduinLothar`	`I've had it in the todo list since like beta`
`23:18.14`	`Iriel`	`Skittles(TasteTheRainbow?)`
`23:18.14`	`AnduinLothar`	`i was gonna start working on it a few hours ago, but i cant come up with a good name`
`23:18.21`	`JoshBorke`	`Hexarobi: do you have an option to minimize/hide the chess frame?`
`23:18.25`	`AnduinLothar`	`paren in addon names work?`
`23:18.38`	`Hexarobi`	`kirk, yes i just havent gotten around to making a nice title bar`
`23:18.45`	`Hexarobi`	`josh yes, /chess board`
`23:18.50`	`Hexarobi`	`toggles the board`
`23:18.58`	`AnduinLothar`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:19.18`	`Kirkburn`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:19.38`	`AnduinLothar`	`mmm, yeah. do ou have long hair?`
`23:19.49`	`JoshBorke`	`FACAP? For All Chat Colors And Purposes? ;-)`
`23:19.55`	`Iriel`	`That was two suggestions in one, though you coul duse a hyphen or underscar?`
`23:20.09`	`AnduinLothar`	`underscar? under what?`
`23:20.15`	`AnduinLothar`	`sunburn?`
`23:20.23`	`AnduinLothar`	`tatoo`
`23:20.24`	`Hexarobi`	`whats better, wowChess or WarChess`
`23:20.42`	`AnduinLothar`	`isn't it the same addon with a texture option?`
`23:20.52`	`Hexarobi`	`i mean the name`
`23:21.08`	`Hexarobi`	`if its warcraft themed, warchess would be a cool name`
`23:21.16`	`NotAnduinLothar`	`I don't understand why people don't use my addon, Ocean. I mean, it's easy to download, fully documented, and does everything you want it to do in 2kb with out using the CPU.`
`23:21.18`	`AnduinLothar`	`Chess`
`23:21.35`	`AnduinLothar`	`zomg no cpu!?`
`23:21.39`	`AnduinLothar`	`gpu?`
`23:21.44`	`Hexarobi`	`must be magic`
`23:21.50`	`AnduinLothar`	`i wish myaddons would use my gpu`
`23:22.20`	`NotAnduinLothar`	`It uses the interaction of elections in a person's CRT to do it's processes.`
`23:22.23`	`AnduinLothar`	`i need a barber pole hp bar..`
`23:22.39`	`NotAnduinLothar`	`There's a seperate method for LCDs, but it's not as efficient.`
`23:22.52`	`AnduinLothar`	`hey hex, throw in some wc2 music to play in the bg`
`23:22.58`	`JoshBorke`	`wow, elections in a CRT? cool`
`23:23.13`	`AnduinLothar`	`i have them all extracted if you need them`
`23:23.19`	`AnduinLothar`	`er`
`23:23.21`	`AnduinLothar`	`nm`
`23:23.22`	`NotAnduinLothar`	`Josh - it can count ballets too`
`23:23.23`	`AnduinLothar`	`it's on the cd`
`23:23.42`	`NotAnduinLothar`	`To see how efficently it's running.`
`23:24.17`	`AnduinLothar`	`gotta be a MiniGames chess pic somewhere..`
`23:24.26`	`JoshBorke`	`how does it resolve hanging chads?`
`23:24.38`	`AnduinLothar`	`with dimples?`
`23:24.55`	`Shadowed`	`Did it really take you 5 minutes to retype the name backwards? :p`
`23:26.42`	`AnduinLothar`	`wow.. what a fantastic addon page: http://www.wowwiki.com/MiniGames`
`23:26.47`	`AnduinLothar`	`who wants to update it`
`23:27.04`	`rahtoLniudnA`	`Shadowed - it's called being at work`
`23:28.04`	`AnduinLothar`	`prolyl cause leg told mikk to leave the cosmos addon pages untouched`
`23:28.21`	`AnduinLothar`	`since that's all the docs we have`
`23:29.53`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-64-161-16-97.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`23:30.46`	`Kirkburn`	`zomg it's AUGUST!`
`23:30.52`	`Kirkburn`	`AUGUST goddammit`
`23:31.35`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-64-161-16-97.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`23:31.38`	`Kirkburn`	`(And i'm not describing something)`
`23:31.43`	`End-afk`	`hey, it's still July where I am :P`
`23:31.49`	`Iriel`	`That traditionally follows July, so I'm not sure why it's coming across as a surprise?`
`23:32.02`	`Kirkburn`	`I hardly ever realised it was july :P`
`23:33.21`	`JoshBorke`	`but see, you did`
`23:33.29`	`JoshBorke`	`so what's your excuse now Kirkburn? huh?! HUH?!`
`23:33.39`	`Kirkburn`	`I plead insanity`
`23:33.54`	`AnduinLothar`	`http://macblackdeath.no-ip.com/MiniGamesChess.jpg`
`23:33.58`	`Kirkburn`	`Actually, that was packed away in italy for most of july. Whilst I was here`
`23:34.11`	`Kirkburn`	`Also, I miss my girl =(`
`23:34.21`	`AnduinLothar`	`still july here`
`23:34.43`	`Kirkburn`	`That game looks scary, AnduinLothar. What is it? Ludo?`
`23:34.53`	`AnduinLothar`	`um`
`23:34.55`	`AnduinLothar`	`chess`
`23:35.08`	`AnduinLothar`	`showing the moves of the sellected piece`
`23:35.16`	`AnduinLothar`	`which happens to be a queen`
`23:35.17`	`Kirkburn`	`So not Cluedo?`
`23:35.20`	`AnduinLothar`	`no..`
`23:35.26`	`Kirkburn`	`Monopoly?`
`23:35.37`	`AnduinLothar`	`yes kirk... it's monopoly`
`23:35.43`	`Kirkburn`	`Yay!`
`23:35.44`	`Iriel`	`Why isn't the selected piece highlighted?`
`23:36.07`	`Kirov`	`I thought about that myself`
`23:36.08`	`AnduinLothar`	`good question`
`23:36.23`	`AnduinLothar`	`prolly cause my mouse was over a diff one at the time`
`23:36.34`	`AnduinLothar`	`or maybe my screen shot ate it`
`23:36.43`	`Kirkburn`	`tasty queens`
`23:36.46`	`Iriel`	`You captured the mouse`
`23:36.49`	`Iriel`	`it's not over the queen`
`23:37.08`	`AnduinLothar`	`meh, i dunno. i didn't make it`
`23:37.10`	`Kirov`	`blink`
`23:37.12`	`Iriel`	`but either way, highlighting 'destinations' without the source piece loses points from me for usability`
`23:37.24`	`Kirov`	`Kirkburn - lets not touch that one again`
`23:37.25`	`kergoth`	`There any news on when 1.12 is gonna happen?`
`23:37.27`	`AnduinLothar`	`looks liek it's jsut designed to show availible squares to click that will be valid moves`
`23:37.36`	`Kirkburn`	`=)`
`23:38.02`	`Kirkburn`	`like yeah, 1.12, doods ... tomorrow?`
`23:38.07`	`AnduinLothar`	`not that iriel ever plays chess in game`
`23:38.12`	`Iriel`	`Kirov : We're fairly sure it'll be a tuesday 8-)`
`23:38.28`	`AnduinLothar`	`like i said, i just made it work with sky`
`23:38.33`	`Iriel`	`I dont play chess very often period, but if I did... 8-)`
`23:38.39`	`AnduinLothar`	`as oppossed to the non-working condition it was in`
`23:39.18`	`AnduinLothar`	`but it's looked virtually identical since it was remade into an addon shortly after addons were introduced`
`23:39.24`	`AnduinLothar`	`predating Sky`
`23:39.30`	`Kirkburn`	`Kirov, are you competing with me for 'oddest channel member' or what? :P`
`23:40.19`	`Kirkburn`	`And I thought you said you weren't going to touch ahem`
`23:41.43`	`AnduinLothar`	`ok.. so... addon name`
`23:41.46`	`AnduinLothar`	`still need 1`
`23:42.24`	`Kirov`	`AnduinLothar - for what?`
`23:42.26`	`Iriel`	`Tab completion FTL 8-(`
`23:42.40`	`AnduinLothar`	`we've been over this`
`23:42.52`	`Iriel`	`AnduinLothar : I still like TasteTheRainbow, or maybe HearTheRainbow?`
`23:42.58`	`Kirov`	`AnduinLothar - perhaps, but since when do I pay attention?`
`23:43.06`	`AnduinLothar`	`[16:16] <AnduinLothar>so, what do i call an addon that preserves channel color by name?`
`23:43.15`	`Iriel`	`ChatHue`
`23:43.22`	`Iriel`	`ChannelHue`
`23:43.23`	`Kirkburn`	`ChatHUE?`
`23:43.27`	`AnduinLothar`	`knew a hugh in HS`
`23:43.39`	`AnduinLothar`	`twin was called charlse`
`23:43.44`	`AnduinLothar`	`charles even`
`23:43.49`	`Kirov`	`Iriel - I apologize for having a nickname that shares the first three letters with another channel member.`
`23:43.52`	`Iriel`	`TieDye?`
`23:44.01`	`Kirkburn`	`Change it then, biatch`
`23:44.06`	`AnduinLothar`	`TieDie would be thuroughly confusing`
`23:44.25`	`Iriel`	`It ties a dye to a channel name`
`23:44.25`	`AnduinLothar`	`Cholor`
`23:44.41`	`AnduinLothar`	`Colannel`
`23:44.50`	`Khurkbhurn`	`Cholera`
`23:44.51`	`AnduinLothar`	`Chanolor`
`23:44.54`	`Khurkbhurn`	`(colourer)`
`23:45.05`	`AnduinLothar`	`BleedingChannels`
`23:45.16`	`AnduinLothar`	`BloodyChannels`
`23:45.18`	`Shadowed`	`ChatColors, if anyone asks say you came up with the name long before they did`
`23:45.27`	`AnduinLothar`	`...`
`23:45.41`	`Khurkbhurn`	`I invented the light bulb first, so there!`
`23:45.45`	`AnduinLothar`	`i only do that if i DID actually come up with it first`
`23:45.49`	`AnduinLothar`	`like ChatScroll`
`23:45.53`	`Keeroff`	`"Doppler Shift"`
`23:45.54`	`Shadowed`	`Lying is only bad if you're caught!`
`23:46.20`	`Iriel`	`ChannelKey?`
`23:46.31`	`Iriel`	`ChatTint?`
`23:46.39`	`Khurkbhurn`	`I still vote for Cholera`
`23:46.46`	`AnduinLothar`	`TintChat`
`23:46.56`	`Keeroff`	`no one likes doppler shift`
`23:47.00`	`Iriel`	`ConsisTint?`
`23:47.14`	`AnduinLothar`	`AndStayThatWay`
`23:47.22`	`Rallion`	`that's amazing, ConsisTint`
`23:47.25`	`Rallion`	`seriously`
`23:47.45`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge cladbot (n=piespy@cpe-69-202-110-177.twcny.res.rr.com)`
`23:47.47`	`Khurkbhurn`	`srsly`
`23:47.50`	`AnduinLothar`	`hmm`
`23:47.52`	`Khurkbhurn`	`I agree`
`23:47.59`	`AnduinLothar`	`that IS good`
`23:48.08`	`AnduinLothar`	`grat iriel`
`23:48.10`	`AnduinLothar`	`you win`
`23:48.11`	`Kirkburn`	`(I have returned from the Middle East)`
`23:48.18`	`Rallion`	`hehe`
`23:48.19`	`Iriel`	`Yay, useful for something!`
`23:48.22`	`Iriel`	`8-)`
`23:48.32`	`Kirkburn`	`:D`
`23:48.41`	`AnduinLothar`	`that's why we keep you around`
`23:48.53`	`Rallion`	`I was so pleased with my PlasticBags, but ConsisTint blows it out of the water`
`23:49.04`	`AnduinLothar`	`tho i have to admit it took me a while to catch ConsisTint`
`23:49.08`	`Kirkburn`	`Keeroff, I like Doppler Shift ... /patpatpat`
`23:49.20`	`AnduinLothar`	`like a full minute and half a google search`
`23:49.38`	`Kirkburn`	`I'm worried`
`23:50.07`	`Kirkburn`	`How did it take you that long?`
`23:50.23`	`AnduinLothar`	`not really sure`
`23:50.35`	`AnduinLothar`	`mikk's slowness rubbing off on me today i guess`
`23:50.45`	`Kirkburn`	`oooh snap`
`23:51.38`	`Kirov`	`I kind of imagine it more like slowness dripping on someone.`
`23:52.04`	`Rallion`	`If I have FrameB:SetPoint("LEFT",FrameA,"LEFT"), can I then to FrameA:SetPoint("RIGHT",FrameB,"RIGHT") to have it 'tighten' around FrameA?`
`23:52.04`	`AnduinLothar`	`ooze`
`23:52.28`	`AnduinLothar`	`wha?`
`23:52.33`	`Kirkburn`	`I wants a Blizzcon 2 held in europa :(`
`23:52.38`	`Rallion`	`eh, don't worry about it, I can just try it.`
`23:53.04`	`Kirkburn`	`stampy feet`
`23:54.49`	`Mery2`	`i have the feeling that a blizzcon in europe would be in paris`
`23:55.39`	`Rallion`	`seems logical.`
`23:55.53`	`Iriel`	`The problem with blizzcon in europe would be that you'd have fewer blizzardfolk, I doubt they'd pay to fly that many people there`
`23:56.02`	`Iriel`	`Anaheim made sense because we had to go to them`
`23:57.21`	`Kirov`	`Because Blizzard is so hard up for cash`
`23:57.42`	`Kirov`	`what with World of Warcraft tanking and all`
`23:57.59`	`Shadowed`	`Just because you have a million dollars doesn't mean you should spend it all because you can :p`
`23:58.04`	`Tain`	`Still cost a lot more money than just doing it in the US for questionable benefit.`
`23:58.41`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge dukeku (i=dukeku@c-67-160-162-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net)`

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