irclog2html for #wowi-lounge on 20060811

`00:03.39`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge [Wobin] (i=Wobin@218-214-59-86.people.net.au)`
`00:40.44`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge cogwheel (n=chatzill@67.188.231.45)`
`00:42.02`	`cogwheel`	`Ok... func1 returns 3 values. func2 does too... print(func1()) and print(func2()) both work as expected, but print(func1(),func2()) only prints 4 values ... am i missing something about lua?`
`00:44.02`	`JoshBorke`	`did you try print({func1(),func2()})?`
`00:44.56`	`cogwheel`	`that'll work for print because print() itself recognizes tables... i don't think that'll work in general though.`
`00:45.22`	`cogwheel`	`actually, even print just prints: table: 1E9CD308`
`00:45.28`	`Kaso`	`l;`
`00:45.46`	`Cide`	`that's what you use /dump for!`
`00:45.58`	`cogwheel`	`see... the point isn't the printing...`
`00:46.16`	`cogwheel`	`that was just an example`
`00:46.55`	`cogwheel`	`after further testing, print(func1(),func2()) prints the first result from func1 and the three from func2`
`00:47.27`	`cogwheel`	`i suppose this is just a limitation with lua since the number of returns from func1 are not known before the call...`
`00:47.41`	`cogwheel`	`i'll have to figure out some other way to do this.`
`00:48.15`	`cogwheel`	`i could use a local r,g,b=UnpackColor(blah)`
`00:53.39`	`JoshBorke`	`cogwheel: what are you doing?`
`00:54.32`	`kergoth`	`cogwheel: it sounds like you havent read the lua documentation.`
`00:54.40`	`kergoth`	`the manual outlines the behavior of multiple returns`
`00:54.45`	`cogwheel`	`i figured it out, kerg`
`00:54.54`	`kergoth`	`exactly when it gets reduced to one value, and when it does not`
`00:54.56`	`kergoth`	`good`
`00:56.03`	`Hexarobi`	`anybody think a good visual representation, an icon, that represents it currently being your turn in a chess game?`
`00:56.43`	`Hexarobi`	`im thinking maybe a clock`
`01:02.06`	`cogwheel`	`joshborke, i'm using built-in colors for tooltips. I made UnpackColor to return the RGB values of HIGHLIGHT_FONT_COLOR. Since AddDoubleLine takes two sets of colors, i was trying to pass two calls to UnpackColor.`
`01:04.48`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`01:07.21`	`Kirkburn1`	`Rallion, any luck with the jack thompson stuff?`
`01:10.36`	`Kirkburn1`	`nvm, found it here :) http://feeds.joystiq.com/~r/weblogsinc/joystiq/~3/11109281/`
`01:11.53`	`Kirkburn1`	`Better link: http://www.joystiq.com/2006/08/10/g4-jack-thompson-yell-at-each-other/`
`01:27.01`	`Corrodias`	`i finally made some profit on an AH transaction. yay!`
`01:27.51`	`Corrodias`	`Hexarobi: let me check my chess game to see how it indicates whose turn it is`
`01:30.54`	`Corrodias`	`this one has a clock for each player. the active player has a running clock, and the inactive player has a dimmed clock`
`01:31.19`	`Corrodias`	`another option is a simple text indicator. Next turn: White/Black`
`01:31.30`	`Corrodias`	`or This Turn`
`01:33.46`	`[Wobin]`	`"Your turn" "Their turn" ?`
`01:35.20`	`JoshBorke`	`Mikk: wow, HealthMon looks GREAT`
`01:37.08`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tuplad (n=tuplad@d54C52170.access.telenet.be)`
`01:37.40`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kyahx (n=Kyahx@65-73-45-21.dsl1.mnd.mn.frontiernet.net)`
`01:37.53`	`Cide`	`HealthMon?`
`01:38.09`	`JoshBorke`	`a little mod i wrote for Mikk`
`01:38.18`	`Cide`	`screenshotz!`
`01:38.22`	`JoshBorke`	`basically gives you 2 bars that show the relative DTPS and HTPS for a target`
`01:38.38`	`JoshBorke`	`i guess TO a target i should say`
`01:38.50`	`Corrodias`	`that's not a bad idea`
`01:39.04`	`JoshBorke`	`http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=healthmonbignn0.jpg`
`01:39.51`	`JoshBorke`	`i'll take a screenshot when we pull the next group in AQ`
`01:39.56`	`JoshBorke`	`since i'll be able to show actual stuff`
`01:40.20`	`Corrodias`	`although, as a healer, i'm often watching more than one person at a time`
`01:40.29`	`JoshBorke`	`Corrodias: you can have as many as you'd like`
`01:40.55`	`JoshBorke`	`so what i'm doing is stacking 4 (1 for each tank) on top of each other`
`01:41.09`	`JoshBorke`	`so i can compare how each of the tanks are doing`
`01:42.20`	`Hexarobi`	`right now im using the temp.blp icon`
`01:42.33`	`Hexarobi`	`the guys smiling face made famous on thottbot ;)`
`01:42.41`	`JoshBorke`	`oops, forgot to take a screenshot`
`01:48.06`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-68-127-190-190.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)`
`02:18.58`	`JoshBorke`	`http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=healviewrs9.jpg`
`02:19.07`	`JoshBorke`	`is my healing view`
`02:23.48`	`Mikk`	`JoshBorke: Wheee =)`
`02:24.18`	`JoshBorke`	`MIkk: added a new feature on my end: noNewFrames`
`02:24.29`	`JoshBorke`	`so you don't get a new one in the middle of your screen all the time :-D`
`02:25.07`	`JoshBorke`	`i'm gonna throw in a feature to have decaying DPS like CombatGraph did`
`02:25.12`	`JoshBorke`	`i don't like how static my data is`
`02:25.17`	`JoshBorke`	`well, the view is anyway`
`02:26.05`	`Mikk`	`It really is helpful to you as a healer then?`
`02:26.24`	`JoshBorke`	`i love pretty bars`
`02:26.28`	`JoshBorke`	`why do you think i wrote healwatch?`
`02:26.44`	`Kirov`	`You're a masocist?`
`02:27.14`	`Mikk`	`haha`
`02:29.15`	`JoshBorke`	`i did lvl a paladin to 60...`
`02:29.37`	`Mikk`	`.. and that after levelling a dps monster warlock`
`02:30.11`	`Mikk`	`"Woo hoo. My paladin does 120 dps with nice ZG gear and a bit lucky with crits..."`
`02:30.22`	`Mikk`	`"Um. My warlock does 400dps when unlucky with crits"`
`02:31.24`	`JoshBorke`	`now mikk is the masochist`
`02:33.24`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kaelten (n=Kaelten@68.63.3.183)`
`02:33.26`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ`
`02:33.30`	`Hexarobi`	`is there a command to make the cursor glow?`
`02:33.49`	`[Wobin]`	`Cursor changing is dodgy`
`02:34.01`	`[Wobin]`	`if you're over the worldframe, it automatically resets the cursor`
`02:34.02`	`Hexarobi`	`ok, its purely cosmetic, not worth doing if its dodgyt`
`02:34.14`	`[Wobin]`	`So you can have it glow, but only if it's over a bar/inventory/etc`
`02:34.25`	`Hexarobi`	`ya thats fine for my needs actually`
`02:34.37`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`02:34.43`	`[Wobin]`	`hm`
`02:34.51`	`[Wobin]`	`SetCursorSomethingorother`
`02:34.57`	`[Wobin]`	`I can't remember the function =)`
`02:35.10`	`[Wobin]`	`But you'll basically pass it the activecursor or something`
`02:35.17`	`[Wobin]`	`gah, this explaination is hopeless =P`
`02:35.22`	`Hexarobi`	`hehe`
`02:35.24`	`Hexarobi`	`i found the wiki thx`
`02:35.35`	`[Wobin]`	`=)`
`02:43.34`	`JoshBorke`	`for a guild on nef, why can't we handle coordination?`
`02:44.34`	`Mikk`	`gogo more voice comms?`
`02:48.28`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=masked@c-67-183-238-150.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`02:51.59`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=chatzill@host-70-45-82-92.onelinkpr.net)`
`02:55.29`	`ckknight`	`what's the third number in an item link mean?`
`02:56.28`	`JoshBorke`	`unique identifier tracing the cerator?`
`02:58.24`	`MentalPower`	`randomProp`
`02:58.26`	`MentalPower`	`"of the Foo"`
`02:59.04`	`ckknight`	`JoshBorke, that's the 4th`
`02:59.11`	`ckknight`	`okay, first is the base type`
`02:59.20`	`ckknight`	`what's 2nd, then?`
`02:59.23`	`ckknight`	`enchants`
`02:59.24`	`ckknight`	`?`
`02:59.54`	`MentalPower`	`Hitem:ItemID:Enchant:RandomProp:UniqueID\|h`
`03:00.05`	`ckknight`	`okay`
`03:00.26`	`ckknight`	`(research for AceComm)`
`03:00.37`	`ckknight`	`it does auto-serialization of item links`
`03:00.58`	`MentalPower`	`IC`
`03:01.45`	`ckknight`	`I had the second and third confused`
`03:02.00`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tsikura (i=tsikura@user-0cev143.cable.mindspring.com)`
`03:05.20`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Flyoc_ (n=flyin_do@APlessis-Bouchard-153-1-23-247.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`03:05.22`	`Kirov`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/API_TYPE_ItemString`
`03:06.10`	`ckknight`	`Kirov, there needs to be a link to that somewhere :-P`
`03:06.15`	`Mikk`	`idd`
`03:06.58`	`Kirov`	`ckknight - there is`
`03:07.08`	`Kirov`	`In a couple places`
`03:07.10`	`ckknight`	`I googled for item link`
`03:07.13`	`ckknight`	`:-P`
`03:07.28`	`Kirov`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/API_Notation_and_Conventions`
`03:11.13`	`Mikk`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/API_Types`
`03:13.10`	`Mikk`	`aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh i'm getting seriously annoyed with all the prefixes now`
`03:13.20`	`Mikk`	`"API TYPE ItemString"`
`03:13.25`	`Mikk`	`Why not just "ItemString"?`
`03:13.33`	`Mikk`	`Or at least "ItemString (API TYPE)"?`
`03:13.55`	`Mikk`	`So you can just type [[ItemString (API TYPE)\|]] and have the parser auto-drop the stuff in parenthetis on display`
`03:18.08`	`Mikk`	`okay, fuck it. i'm going to start rewriting all the api type links`
`03:18.19`	`Mikk`	`you're welcome to scream at me later`
`03:18.57`	`Mikk`	`O.O`
`03:19.02`	`Cairenn`	`;)`
`03:20.32`	`Mikk`	`guys... quick input on naming... "itemString" is the current name for "item:12345:0:0:0". "itemLink" is the current name for "\|cff9d9d9d\|Hitem:7073:0:0:0\|h[Broken Fang]\|h\|r"`
`03:20.36`	`Mikk`	`keep rolling with this?`
`03:21.12`	`MentalPower`	`itemLink, yes`
`03:21.19`	`MentalPower`	`itemString, might as well`
`03:21.24`	`MentalPower`	`can't come up with a better onw`
`03:21.31`	`MentalPower`	`one*`
`03:24.45`	`Hexarobi`	`well cair, i got all the animations for moving and combat done, now i just need to add sounds`
`03:25.02`	`cogwheel`	`kirkburn, can you post a reply for me? http://wowi.pastey.net/192`
`03:25.56`	`Kirov`	`Mikk - that was how I thought of it too`
`03:26.07`	`Kirov`	`ItemDefinition perhaps as well`
`03:26.16`	`Kirov`	`ItemNotation ?`
`03:27.14`	`Cairenn`	`Hexarobi: rarr!`
`03:27.37`	`Cairenn`	`Hexarobi: how much shit did you get in, in your class, for not having your project done, though?`
`03:27.39`	`JoshBorke`	`night all`
`03:27.48`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu)`
`03:28.05`	`Hexarobi`	`haha im kidding i dont have it done i suck ;)`
`03:28.11`	`Hexarobi`	`none yet`
`03:28.20`	`Hexarobi`	`but aparantly everyone is in the same boat`
`03:28.21`	`Cairenn`	`lol, skipped class huh?`
`03:28.28`	`Cairenn`	`ah`
`03:28.34`	`Hexarobi`	`hehe we were talking during class this morning ;)`
`03:28.45`	`Hexarobi`	`or when i should have been in class`
`03:29.01`	`Kirkburn`	`cogwheel, um, wrong link?`
`03:29.19`	`Kirov`	`So, a little side project http://wowi.pastey.net/193`
`03:29.20`	`cogwheel`	`no...`
`03:29.34`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`03:30.05`	`Mikk`	`bah. itemString it is`
`03:30.05`	`Kirkburn`	`oh, I see`
`03:30.55`	`Kirov`	`Mikk - I was thinking of splitting that ItemString page in to three sections. The main definition of ItemString, then enchants and bonuses to their own pages.`
`03:31.08`	`cogwheel`	`i just thought pasty would be the quickest way for me to get it to you without spamming ;)`
`03:31.42`	`Mikk`	`perhaps. for now i'm just going to fix the &#%¤&#% page names.`
`03:31.56`	`Kirkburn`	`Your cogness, it is done`
`03:32.11`	`cogwheel`	`thanks :)`
`03:32.42`	`Kirkburn`	`The &#%¤&#% page names :O Such language!`
`03:43.30`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Dolby-wowi (n=Dolby@CPE-70-94-30-72.wi.res.rr.com)`
`03:43.30`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Dolby-wowi] by ChanServ`
`03:43.44`	`Cairenn`	`wb`
`03:44.18`	`Dolby-wowi`	`thanks`
`03:48.22`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge DoomGaze3 (i=DoomGaze@74.128.147.210)`
`03:49.54`	`DoomGaze3`	`hey guys`
`03:51.35`	`Cairenn`	`hi DoomGaze3`
`03:51.44`	`DoomGaze3`	`how goes?`
`03:54.31`	`ckknight`	`anyone mind looking over some documentation I wrote to see if it makes sense?`
`03:54.43`	`DoomGaze3`	`sure`
`03:55.07`	`ckknight`	`http://wiki.wowace.com/index.php/AceComm-2.0_encoding_spec and http://wiki.wowace.com/index.php/AceComm-2.0_serialization_spec`
`03:59.26`	`Mikk`	`serialization makes sense to me`
`03:59.38`	`ckknight`	`good`
`03:59.46`	`DoomGaze3`	`looks sharp`
`04:00.02`	`Kirkburn`	`Why is it when I plan to go to bed, I'm hungry :(`
`04:00.31`	`Kirkburn`	`Then again, it's 5am. Bah .... g'night all!`
`04:00.40`	`Cairenn`	`night Kirkburn`
`04:00.57`	`Mikk`	`ckknight: there's something funky about \176 encoding though`
`04:01.08`	`ckknight`	`what's that?`
`04:01.12`	`Kirkburn`	`nn Cairenn :)`
`04:01.21`	`Mikk`	`nowait.. i just need coffee`
`04:01.37`	`ckknight`	`I've run it through very thorough tests`
`04:01.41`	`Mikk`	`i was just thinking that a string that was actually "\176\177" could end up funny`
`04:01.50`	`Mikk`	`but it'll decode properyl`
`04:01.51`	`ckknight`	`nope.`
`04:02.18`	`ckknight`	`I've run it (in WoW) through very thorough whisper tests`
`04:02.30`	`ckknight`	`whisper a message to myself across the stream, make sure it's the same`
`04:02.31`	`Mikk`	`i think i'd have done \176\176 to encode \176 but ohwell`
`04:02.40`	`ckknight`	`I tried that originally`
`04:02.43`	`ckknight`	`it doesn't work.`
`04:02.57`	`Mikk`	`o.O`
`04:03.03`	`Mikk`	`am i missing something?`
`04:03.16`	`ckknight`	`well, it's _very_ hard to split a string into two that way`
`04:03.27`	`ckknight`	`to send in packets with datagramming`
`04:03.40`	`ckknight`	`cause you might split it in the middle of the encode`
`04:03.51`	`ckknight`	`which is bad (at least for AceComm)`
`04:03.52`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge cogwheel (n=chatzill@67.188.231.45)`
`04:03.56`	`Mikk`	`ah yeah`
`04:03.58`	`ckknight`	`but \176\177 works great.`
`04:04.05`	`Mikk`	`i'm used to thinking C`
`04:04.19`	`Mikk`	`where i'd just loop through every single letter`
`04:04.31`	`Mikk`	`that's ... ehm.. not preferable for lua =)`
`04:04.38`	`ckknight`	`it'd still be expensive if you have multiple \176's in a row`
`04:04.48`	`ckknight`	`instead, I just have to check 1 char`
`04:04.59`	`ckknight`	`if it's \176, I split it ahead 1 character`
`04:05.18`	`ckknight`	`so it's all good.`
`04:05.23`	`Mikk`	`I'll just take your word for it without digging into your code =)`
`04:06.03`	`Mikk`	`why \176 btw?`
`04:06.11`	`ckknight`	`it's the degree symbol`
`04:06.16`	`ckknight`	`not used in common speech`
`04:06.20`	`ckknight`	`and it's hidden from WoW`
`04:06.30`	`Mikk`	`i was just thinking about utf-8`
`04:06.47`	`ckknight`	`well, it doesn't matter anyway :-P, since it's encoded properly`
`04:06.51`	`ckknight`	`it could be any character`
`04:06.53`	`Mikk`	`aye`
`04:07.09`	`Mikk`	`was just thinking it'd be unfortunate if it was e.g. a common utf-8 lead byte`
`04:07.18`	`Mikk`	`bloat ftw`
`04:07.25`	`Mikk`	`hm. b0`
`04:10.05`	`Mikk`	`nah. i just fed a bunch of accented characters into an utf-8 file`
`04:10.06`	`Mikk`	`no b0s`
`04:10.28`	`ckknight`	`great`
`04:10.52`	`Kirov`	`How do you format something to always have 2 digits?`
`04:10.58`	`Kirov`	`like time`
`04:11.02`	`ckknight`	`%02d`
`04:11.09`	`Kirov`	`thank you`
`04:25.25`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Flyoc_ (n=flyin_do@APlessis-Bouchard-153-1-23-247.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`04:28.58`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`04:29.22`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge zinor (n=aaaa@m015f36d0.tmodns.net)`
`04:30.45`	*** join/#wowi-lounge Arrowmaster` (i=Arrow@cpe-24-209-111-105.woh.res.rr.com)
`04:37.50`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Esamynn (n=jbcc@d207-216-176-153.bchsia.telus.net)`
`04:37.56`	`Esamynn`	`Evening all`
`04:38.16`	`cogwheel`	`'ello`
`04:41.03`	`Cairenn`	`hey es`
`04:42.49`	`ckknight`	`hey Esamynn`
`04:43.06`	`Esamynn`	`afk, Twin Emps`
`04:43.18`	`Cairenn`	`g'luck`
`04:57.54`	`Esamynn`	`I have a question, I know the reason Blizz never replies on the suggestion forums is because of legal complications, anyone know if the same would apply to code we might post as part of a default UI suggestion?`
`04:58.21`	`DoomGaze3`	`no`
`04:58.25`	`DoomGaze3`	`as per the eula`
`04:58.29`	`DoomGaze3`	`they already own your code`
`04:58.46`	`Cairenn`	`no, they don't`
`04:58.49`	`Cairenn`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:59.09`	`DoomGaze3`	`do you think they'd let you sell an addon?`
`04:59.22`	`Cairenn`	`they can't stop you`
`04:59.37`	`Cairenn`	`code is intellectual property, pure and simple`
`04:59.46`	`Gryphen`	`you could sell an addon`
`04:59.51`	`Cairenn`	`there is no two ways around that, whether folks want to deal with it or not`
`05:00.06`	`Cairenn`	`if it is your code, you can do as you wish with it`
`05:00.18`	`Cairenn`	`just because it only works in wow doesn't make it any less your code`
`05:00.30`	`Cairenn`	`therefore your intellectual property`
`05:01.46`	`Esamynn`	`I was just wondering if that might have been the reason Rislyn seemed to ignore my post of a new idea for how to scale the bags when they would otherwise overlap with the bank frame`
`05:01.56`	`Cairenn`	`possibly`
`05:04.21`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`05:04.56`	`Esamynn`	`got any suggestions for me in that case? I'm making a post about the remaining problems with the current PTR anchoring code`
`05:05.18`	`Cairenn`	`can still make suggestions, nothing to stop you`
`05:05.36`	`Cairenn`	`if you say "you're welcome to use this", then they can take it and use it`
`05:05.58`	`Cairenn`	`if you give her permission ...`
`05:06.24`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=chatzill@host-70-45-82-92.onelinkpr.net)`
`05:06.28`	`Cairenn`	`presuming you've come up with a solution`
`05:06.54`	`Cairenn`	`otherwise, just go ahead and post that there are still problems`
`05:08.04`	`Cairenn`	`night MentalPower\|ZZzz, sweet dreams`
`05:08.11`	`MentalPower\|ZZzz`	`night Cair`
`05:08.20`	`DoomGaze3`	`read the eula: section 11`
`05:08.38`	`DoomGaze3`	`there was a court case about this a few years back`
`05:08.43`	`DoomGaze3`	`Remember D!Zone?`
`05:08.46`	`Cairenn`	`I've read it, backwards and forwards, they don't own your code`
`05:08.48`	`DoomGaze3`	`The map pack for doom?`
`05:09.10`	`Esamynn`	`ok, thanks Cair`
`05:09.29`	`DoomGaze3`	`id sued and won against the makers of D!Zone because it was considered a "derivative work"`
`05:09.43`	`DoomGaze3`	`IE it used their game engine to produce a result`
`05:09.48`	`DoomGaze3`	`The same applies here`
`05:09.53`	`Cairenn`	`...`
`05:10.01`	`Cairenn`	`whatever, I'm not going to argue with you`
`05:10.17`	`DoomGaze3`	`I'm just saying, I've taken classes in entertainment industry law`
`05:10.47`	`Cairenn`	`and I've been dealing with it IRL for the last 5 years`
`05:10.57`	`DoomGaze3`	`how so?`
`05:10.57`	`cogwheel`	`Bah... i'm glad someone was nice enough to send me translations for Buyemall in chinese, but now i have to switch around %s's and %d's depending on locale...`
`05:11.01`	`Cairenn`	`...`
`05:13.32`	`Kirov`	`So, I'm working on a little project to try and keep track of the actual server time.`
`05:13.33`	`Kirov`	`http://wowi.pastey.net/195`
`05:15.54`	`Kirov`	`Anyone have any thoughts`
`05:16.46`	`Kirov`	`I think it's getting accurate to with in around 0.05 seconds`
`05:19.13`	`Esamynn`	`well, there we go, I guess we'll see if that gets any attention`
`05:19.21`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Shadowed (n=outlaw@c-67-161-0-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`05:21.41`	`Esamynn`	`cogwheel: do it like they do in GlobalStrings.lua, the version of Lua that Blizz is using allows the format string variables to specifiy which argument they should use`
`05:22.31`	`cogwheel`	`Well, i only have one string that needs formatting atm, so it shouldn't be too difficult.`
`05:22.41`	`Esamynn`	`Example: CHAT_INVITE_NOTICE = "%2$s has invited you to join the channel '%1$s'.";`
`05:23.02`	`cogwheel`	`Is that automatic? this is being used in a StaticPopup...`
`05:23.17`	`Esamynn`	`format(CHAT_INVITE_NOTICE, "string1", "string2") gives you "string2 has invited you to join the channel 'string1'."`
`05:23.29`	`cogwheel`	`that's neat... thanks`
`05:23.52`	`Esamynn`	`its a Lua 4.x feature that Blizzard kept when they upgraded to 5.0`
`05:24.11`	`Esamynn`	`I don't understand why it isn't in standard Lua 5.0, but there you are`
`05:26.00`	`cogwheel`	`Too bad FRIZQ__ doesn't display chinese characters so i can see what it actually looks like... :P`
`05:26.21`	`cogwheel`	`but that did work`
`05:27.00`	`Esamynn`	`yes, I wish we could get our hands on clients for other locals`
`05:27.17`	`Esamynn`	`Slouken has said in the past that all the servers are muti-lingual`
`05:27.37`	`cogwheel`	`heh... i could just use ClearFont and throw in one that has the full range of Unicode...`
`05:28.42`	`Esamynn`	`that's not a bad idea, I hadn't thought of that actually`
`05:36.27`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Flyoc_ (n=flyin_do@APlessis-Bouchard-153-1-23-247.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`05:39.28`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`05:39.51`	`DoomGaze3`	`still there cair? You were right... and wrong. And it wasn't D!Zone, it was a similar map pack for Duke 3d`
`05:39.59`	`DoomGaze3`	`http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:HNI4fOuVw4EJ:cyber.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/DVD/cases/Micro_Star_v_Formgen.html+micro+star+v+formgen&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a`
`05:41.44`	`DoomGaze3`	`You still own the code, but you can't sell it because it "impinges" on Blizzard's ability to market new UI's (whether they actually do so or not)`
`05:46.51`	`cogwheel`	`cairenn or dolby, please don't approve my most recent upload if you haven't yet...`
`05:47.01`	`cogwheel`	`i forgot to turn off debug mode again.... :\|`
`05:47.08`	`Dolby-wowi`	`ok`
`05:47.27`	`Dolby-wowi`	`doh looks like some one did`
`05:47.33`	`Dolby-wowi`	`i can put it back in the quweue`
`05:47.37`	`Cairenn`	`it's back`
`05:47.38`	`cogwheel`	`heh... np... i'll replace it`
`05:47.46`	`cogwheel`	`ty...`
`05:47.59`	`Hexarobi`	`hehe i did that cog`
`05:48.14`	`Hexarobi`	`so then i added a / debug command, and added it as the first command in my testing macro`
`05:49.47`	`cogwheel`	`yeah... i'm thinking of putting my BuyMerchantItem hook into Luaslinger instead.`
`05:51.00`	`cogwheel`	`So, will it let me re-upload it with the same version number?`
`05:51.42`	`cogwheel`	`or you could just deny the approval ;)`
`05:51.57`	`Cairenn`	`you don't want us to do that`
`05:52.03`	`Cairenn`	`it deletes it from the DB completely`
`05:52.10`	`Cairenn`	`wipes it from favorites lists, etc`
`05:52.11`	`cogwheel`	`oic`
`05:52.30`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (n=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`05:52.38`	`Cairenn`	`you can just edit the upload and if you have to change the number, we can change it back :p`
`05:52.46`	`cogwheel`	`k`
`05:53.27`	`Cairenn`	`I think that if it is still in the queue, you don't have to`
`05:53.30`	`Cairenn`	`but don't quote me`
`05:54.30`	`Esamynn`	`or you can always add a space character to the version number ;)`
`05:54.47`	`cogwheel`	`i had to use a new one ;)`
`05:54.54`	`cogwheel`	`i can change it and delete the old one`
`05:55.49`	`Cairenn`	`what do you want it to be?`
`05:56.02`	`Cairenn`	`.1?`
`05:56.11`	`cogwheel`	`i got it`
`05:56.20`	`Cairenn`	`k`
`05:57.30`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge s\|loup (n=loup@exch01.berlinheart.de)`
`06:02.06`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge InterSlayer (n=InterSla@cpe-24-58-30-28.twcny.res.rr.com)`
`06:02.16`	`Cairenn`	`night guys`
`06:02.20`	`InterSlayer`	`nite :P`
`06:02.25`	`InterSlayer`	`anyone know the function to get a frame by its id :P`
`06:09.32`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge KarlKFI (n=karl@adsl-67-122-138-140.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)`
`06:10.52`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Flyoc_ (n=flyin_do@APlessis-Bouchard-153-1-23-247.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`06:12.51`	`Kirov`	`InterSlayer - what id?`
`06:13.09`	`InterSlayer`	`the numerical ID you can set for it with SetID`
`06:13.17`	`s\|loup`	`frame:GetID() he ment i think`
`06:13.55`	`InterSlayer`	`i dont know the frame, just the id =p`
`06:14.03`	`Kirov`	`InterSlayer - how do you know the id?`
`06:14.33`	`InterSlayer`	`i dont know, i set it in the XML let's say`
`06:15.11`	`Kirov`	`unless you know the frame's name, knowing it's ID isn't useful`
`06:15.38`	`Kirov`	`Since SetID is user defined, it's not unique.`
`06:15.46`	`InterSlayer`	`ah`
`06:15.56`	`Kirov`	`1000 different frames may have the same ID as the one you're looking for.`
`06:16.18`	`InterSlayer`	`i have my ID's and names mixed up then =p thanks`
`06:18.44`	`DoomGaze3`	`anyone know of a good resource to get started with mod XML?`
`06:19.44`	`Kameril`	`i'd do it all in lua, and avoid the xml now`
`06:20.23`	`Kirov`	`GetID is used by things like the action bar. When the player clicks on a button it basically just goes "this:GetID()" and then does that number action.`
`06:20.46`	`Kameril`	`http://fara.webeddie.com/frames/ has some good info for just starting with xml though`
`06:22.58`	`Kirov`	`Mikk - you do anything with the itemstring page?`
`06:40.33`	`Kirov`	`hmm... they appear to have limited the amount of information that can be copied to the clip board.`
`06:40.55`	`Shadowed`	`there goes my password stealer`
`06:41.33`	`Kirov`	`?`
`06:42.34`	`Shadowed`	`and figured out a way to send stuff using the internet through the game`
`06:44.21`	`Kirov`	`I have an addon that chunks out a huge bit of html to a very very long fontstring that I copy.`
`06:44.40`	`Kirov`	`It's not letting me copy the entire thing.`
`06:45.14`	`Shadowed`	`ahh`
`06:45.49`	`Esamynn`	`night all`
`06:46.06`	`Kirov`	`night`
`06:46.19`	`Kirov`	`It also doesn't like my ubsurdly long text strings. >.<`
`06:46.52`	`Mikk`	`Kirov: nope, just renamed it`
`06:47.33`	`Kirov`	`hmm`
`06:47.38`	`Kirov`	`I may have to learn php or something now`
`06:48.02`	`Mikk`	`o.O`
`06:48.13`	`Mikk`	`not that php is hard to learn in any way whatsoever :-P`
`06:48.20`	`Esamynn`	`lol`
`06:48.28`	`Mikk`	`just stay the hell away from SQL and you'll be fine ;)`
`06:48.34`	`Esamynn`	`I picked up Perl recently.....`
`06:48.39`	`Kirov`	`Mikk - the ItemString page was chunked out from in-game.`
`06:48.53`	`Kirov`	`farmed, and formated the html`
`06:49.07`	`Mikk`	`why do you need php for that?`
`06:49.16`	`Kirov`	`WoW won't let me copy out all 300kb of the html anymore.`
`06:49.17`	`Mikk`	`just generate the html and/or wikitext markup in Lua =)`
`06:49.31`	`Kirov`	`hmm`
`06:49.43`	`Mikk`	`a command line lua app i mean`
`06:49.49`	`Kirov`	`aye`
`06:49.58`	`Kirov`	`but I don't really know lua's io`
`06:49.59`	`Kirov`	`heh`
`06:50.01`	`Mikk`	`just pull in the SV file with dofile() and format to your heart's desires`
`06:50.09`	`Mikk`	`just print() it`
`06:50.27`	`Mikk`	`lua myformatterapp.lua > output.html`
`06:50.58`	`Mikk`	`myformatterapp: dofile("WoW/WTF/..../MyAddon.lua"); print("Lots of stuff");`
`06:51.03`	`Kirov`	`I guess I should get a stand alone lua for this computer.`
`06:51.07`	`Mikk`	`yep`
`06:51.21`	`Mikk`	`there's one in wowbench`
`06:51.37`	`Mikk`	`or just google luabinaries`
`06:52.15`	`Kirov`	`lol`
`06:52.25`	`Kirov`	`wowi has one of my old mods as the current spotlight`
`06:52.34`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`06:52.41`	`Kirov`	`it's one that A) doesn't work B) is discontinued and C) was added to wow`
`06:53.09`	`Kirov`	`hmm, but 2 more views and it will of had 1337 views`
`06:53.24`	`ckknight_`	`hrm?`
`06:53.35`	`Kirov`	`[23:52] Kirov: wowi has one of my old mods as the current spotlight`
`07:00.29`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`07:02.19`	`Kirov`	`dofile ?`
`07:14.53`	`Mikk`	`dofile() is how you pull in a second Lua file`
`07:15.14`	`Mikk`	`like.. umm. #include <file.h> in C`
`07:15.18`	`Mikk`	`or...`
`07:15.19`	`Kirov`	`yeah`
`07:15.24`	`Kirov`	`figured it out. :)`
`07:15.37`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`07:19.22`	`Kirov`	`sweet`
`07:24.48`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`07:35.38`	`ckknight`	`any wowi admins awake?`
`07:35.51`	`ckknight`	`Cairenn or the like`
`07:36.33`	`Mikk`	`doesn't look like it tbh`
`07:36.44`	`Mikk`	`"Cairenn\|Sleep", "Kaelten\|Away"`
`07:38.16`	`ckknight`	`oh well`
`07:38.25`	`ckknight`	`I need them to approve a mod`
`07:38.26`	`Kirov`	`Dolby`
`07:38.33`	`ckknight`	`or alternatively give me FA status ;-)`
`07:38.34`	`ckknight`	`hehe`
`07:38.37`	`Kirov`	`idle for 2 hours`
`07:38.39`	`ckknight`	`but that's reaching`
`07:38.53`	`Thrae`	`~seen Cairenn`
`07:38.57`	`purl`	`cairenn <n=Cairenn@CPE001217452e29-CM014500004571.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowi-lounge, 1h 36m 41s ago, saying: 'night guys'.`
`07:39.07`	`Thrae`	`~seen Kaelten`
`07:39.09`	`purl`	`kaelten <n=Kaelten@68.63.3.183> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowace, 4h 23m 26s ago, saying: 'the fourth one I always sub a zero with'.`
`07:39.13`	`Kirov`	`mikk - http://www.wowwiki.com/ItemString broke off EnchantId and SuffixId`
`07:39.21`	`Thrae`	`~seen Dolby`
`07:39.22`	`purl`	`i haven't seen 'dolby', Thrae`
`07:39.32`	`Mikk`	`~seen Dolby-wowi`
`07:39.34`	`purl`	`dolby-wowi is currently on #wowi-lounge (3h 56m 4s). Has said a total of 4 messages. Is idling for 1h 52m 1s, last said: 'i can put it back in the quweue'.`
`07:40.18`	`Thrae`	`Everyone went asleep about 2 hours ago, heh.`
`07:40.31`	`Thrae`	`Damn those EST/early risers!`
`07:40.34`	`ckknight`	`bastards`
`07:40.45`	`ckknight`	`it's not even 10 PM for me :-P`
`07:40.46`	`Kirov`	`night all`
`07:40.56`	`ckknight`	`I have to take placement tests for college tomorrow :-P`
`07:41.04`	`ckknight`	`Math and Comp Sci`
`07:41.19`	`ckknight`	`I hope I do well and don't get placed in the remedial class`
`07:41.26`	`Thrae`	`Computer Science major, eh?`
`07:41.30`	`ckknight`	`yep.`
`07:41.33`	`ckknight`	`at least for now`
`07:41.44`	`ckknight`	`I'm allowing wiggle room to switch to CIS/Business`
`07:41.55`	`Thrae`	`Ah they call it "CIS" over there?`
`07:42.38`	`Thrae`	`I wouldn't, unless the businesses you want to apply for give any credit to a CIS degree over a Comp. Sci degree. Most of the IT firms I know would rather just have any 'ol Bachelor's and -experience-.`
`07:43.07`	`Thrae`	`There are some places which hold an IT-specific degree over a Comp. Sci degree + certifications, but they're rare.`
`07:43.29`	`Mikk`	`Kirov: Nice one. I reformatted it a bit now.`
`07:44.00`	`ckknight`	`Thrae, it all depends on what I'm gonna end up doing`
`07:44.07`	`Thrae`	`Yes Maryland, the IT capital of the world. I need clearance to get outside of my house.`
`07:44.19`	`ckknight`	`I come from a family that all have their own corporations`
`07:44.49`	`Thrae`	`Ahhhh, gotcha. You have much higher ambitions then me.`
`07:44.57`	`ckknight`	`so all y'all know: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?p=27177`
`07:45.11`	`Thrae`	`I don't have the backbone, nor lack of scruples, required for business.`
`07:45.25`	`ckknight`	`Thrae, I already have my own business now, I've just not incorporated`
`07:45.59`	`Thrae`	`I technically have a business, I just never have any clients.`
`07:46.05`	`ckknight`	`ah`
`07:46.09`	`ckknight`	`I currently have 1 client`
`07:46.11`	`ckknight`	`;-)`
`07:46.15`	`Thrae`	`03:07 < Fritti> it tended to screw up when a bug was in an Ace2 library`
`07:46.17`	`ckknight`	`lawyer's office`
`07:46.17`	`Thrae`	`Oops`
`07:46.24`	`Mikk`	`Businesses are overrated. It's boring to succeed :-P`
`07:46.39`	`Mikk`	`It's lots of fun when you're 2... 3.. 4... 5...`
`07:46.39`	`Thrae`	`Businesses are too much pressure.`
`07:46.51`	`Mikk`	`When you ding 100 and multiple nations it just blows :-(`
`07:47.05`	`Mikk`	`(Multiple states in the case of US I suppose)`
`07:48.58`	`ckknight`	`Mikk, a measure of a man is the wealth of his business, in my family`
`07:50.00`	`ckknight`	`I have to get a business, then find a wife, after that it's mostly just going through the motions`
`07:50.01`	`ckknight`	`afaik`
`07:50.25`	`kergoth`	`methinks if my family felt that way, i'd tell them to go fuck themselves, then go on with my day`
`07:50.28`	`kergoth`	`:P`
`07:50.31`	`gnorlish`	`roger that`
`07:50.59`	`ckknight`	`I like having money`
`07:51.03`	`Thrae`	`My family just says as long as I'm happy, then I'm successful. As long as I have a job, that is.`
`07:51.45`	`gnorlish`	`same`
`07:51.54`	`Thrae`	`Or I should say simply financial independence. They wouldn't mind if I went off and married some woman, or some man, and stopped working.`
`07:53.24`	`ckknight`	`hrm`
`07:53.29`	`Thrae`	`My family is made up of engineers, doctors, teachers, writers, and scientists.`
`07:54.19`	`gnorlish`	`same! except for the writers part`
`07:54.24`	`ckknight`	`my family is made up of a lawyers, businessmen, farmers (up a few generations), and nurses`
`07:54.44`	`Thrae`	`My family can beat up your family!`
`07:54.54`	`ckknight`	`my family can sue your family.`
`07:54.57`	`ckknight`	`now who wins.`
`07:55.08`	`ckknight`	`shazam!`
`07:55.13`	`Thrae`	`My family's psychiatrists and psychologists can tell you how you feel about suing us.`
`07:55.23`	`ckknight`	`my brother's marrying one of those in a week.`
`07:55.25`	`ckknight`	`good time`
`07:55.25`	`ckknight`	`s`
`07:55.28`	`ckknight`	`I get to bartend`
`07:55.37`	`ckknight`	`on another note, I'll be gone for a week.`
`07:55.54`	`ckknight`	`apparently the wedding is an excuse to take a vacation`
`07:56.27`	`Thrae`	`Hehe, watch people find 100 bugs in FuBar-2.0 while you're away.`
`07:56.30`	`ckknight`	`one problem I'm having is that the number of people coming keeps increasing, which means I have to buy more roses for all the girls`
`07:56.35`	`ckknight`	`Thrae, totally.`
`07:56.37`	`Thrae`	`Addons -always- break when you're on vacation.`
`07:56.44`	`ckknight`	`I'll be like "fuck you, guy!"`
`07:57.02`	`Thrae`	`Roses? Are you a casanova?`
`07:57.14`	`ckknight`	`well, I'm bringing one rose for every female that comes`
`07:57.22`	`ckknight`	`individually wrapped`
`07:57.22`	`Thrae`	`"Mon cheri, this eeer rose eest for yue!"`
`07:57.46`	`ckknight`	`yea, I can't pull off French`
`07:58.00`	`ckknight`	`I will be bartending, i.e. making them drunk.`
`07:58.19`	`Thrae`	`When you're drunk, southren hillbilly accents sound sexy.`
`07:58.50`	`ckknight`	`yea.`
`07:59.11`	`DoomGaze3`	`hey ck`
`08:00.19`	`ckknight`	`hey`
`08:02.58`	`DoomGaze3`	`if I were to construct my own listbox, what do you think I should derive the list from?`
`08:04.15`	`ckknight`	`box?`
`08:04.26`	`DoomGaze3`	`ya`
`08:04.27`	`ckknight`	`I don't know what you mean...`
`08:04.55`	`DoomGaze3`	`lemmie find an example...`
`08:05.52`	`DoomGaze3`	`in windows, if you go to change wallpaper, the common wallpapers are contained in a listbox`
`08:06.20`	`ckknight`	`k`
`08:06.37`	`DoomGaze3`	`I know it's gonna be some combination of a frame, scroll buttons and maybe a UIMenu`
`08:07.23`	`DoomGaze3`	`(I always pick the hard projects, if you haven't figured that out by now)`
`08:09.09`	`ckknight`	`k`
`08:11.32`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl)`
`08:13.11`	`ckknight`	`http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/081106/children-crying.gif`
`08:17.22`	`DoomGaze3`	`also, if I'm inheiriting from a frame, can I override it's scripts?`
`08:17.32`	`ckknight`	`yes, afaik`
`08:19.36`	`ckknight`	`except that it's "its", not "it's"`
`08:20.31`	`DoomGaze3`	`Bad force of habit o' mine.`
`08:22.01`	`ckknight`	`English really is a horrid language in its own right :-P`
`08:22.50`	`DoomGaze3`	`what's the difference between a FULLSCREEN_DIALOG and a DIALOG?`
`08:23.33`	`Kameril`	`on AceComm, custom channels can't have spaces in wow, but AceComm doesn't check it currently, so if theres a space the channel is simply never joined, shrug`
`08:24.21`	`Kameril`	`wrong chan, bleh`
`08:26.56`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge kelvie__ (n=kelvie@d154-20-180-12.bchsia.telus.net)`
`08:32.36`	`ckknight`	`Kameril, okay, I'll put in a fix`
`08:38.16`	`Corrodias`	`what's this! fubar 2.0 is still awaiting approval on wowi`
`08:40.18`	`ckknight`	`yea`
`08:40.20`	`ckknight`	`it is`
`08:40.30`	`ckknight`	`blame someone`
`08:41.02`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge InterSlayer (n=InterSla@cpe-24-58-30-28.twcny.res.rr.com)`
`08:41.09`	`Corrodias`	`who can i blame`
`08:41.16`	`ckknight`	`um`
`08:41.22`	`ckknight`	`let's see...`
`08:41.25`	`Corrodias`	`Cairenn! always asleep and not approving fast enough?`
`08:41.35`	`ckknight`	`nah, too easy a target`
`08:41.48`	`ckknight`	`how bout Mikk`
`08:41.57`	`ckknight`	`he might make a good scapegoat`
`08:42.24`	`Corrodias`	`is he in any way responsible?`
`08:43.05`	`ckknight`	`no`
`08:43.27`	`zenzelezz`	`since when has lack of responsibility ever saved someone from becoming a scapegoat? :)`
`08:43.43`	`Corrodias`	`well, it's just that making him feel guilty won't speed it up at all`
`08:44.06`	`zenzelezz`	`oh, you want to actually accomplish something with it`
`08:52.37`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Wobble (i=Wobin@218-214-59-86.people.net.au)`
`08:52.58`	`AnduinLothar`	`ckknight> what was the exact string with %T in it?`
`08:58.04`	`ckknight`	`AnduinLothar, shrug a big random one I made`
`08:58.53`	`ckknight`	`I was just forewarning you`
`08:59.03`	`AnduinLothar`	`what happened?`
`08:59.52`	`ckknight`	`I sent %T, it turned into <no target>`
`09:00.06`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Wobb (i=Wobin@218-214-59-86.people.net.au)`
`09:00.42`	`AnduinLothar`	`mmm, that's emote translation`
`09:00.54`	`AnduinLothar`	`didn't know that happened in normal msgs`
`09:00.59`	`AnduinLothar`	`mmm, take that back`
`09:01.00`	`ckknight`	`sure does`
`09:01.01`	`AnduinLothar`	`i did`
`09:01.09`	`AnduinLothar`	`ok`
`09:04.43`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ven (n=ven@dynadsl-080-228-69-131.ewetel.net)`
`09:07.40`	`AnduinLothar`	`are there any other such shortcuts that blizzard msgs use?`
`09:09.01`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge kelvie (n=Kelvie@d154-20-180-12.bchsia.telus.net)`
`09:11.49`	`ckknight`	`AnduinLothar, not sure. I encode % just to be safe`
`09:37.08`	`ckknight`	`btw, I documented the encoding and serialization specs at http://wiki.wowace.com/index.php/AceComm-2.0`
`09:41.23`	`AnduinLothar`	`good good`
`09:44.12`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Andalia (n=xx@p54AD96D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`09:58.13`	`Mikk`	`I suck at being scapegoat`
`09:58.17`	`Mikk`	`I just blame Kirkbum`
`09:59.54`	`AnduinLothar`	`lol`
`10:11.11`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kaso (i=Jonathan@host81-151-110-222.range81-151.btcentralplus.com)`
`10:14.32`	`Kaso`	`l`
`10:30.22`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Industrial (n=tom@hellsblade.xs4all.nl)`
`10:35.25`	`AnduinLothar`	`i wish the mini-patches on the test realm had actual details of what changed`
`10:39.42`	*** join/#wowi-lounge ag` (n=Andreas@0x535cbbaa.bynxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk)
`10:41.17`	`Neronix`	`AnduinLothar: I know there's a site out there that provides diffs, but forgot the url`
`10:42.14`	`[Ammo]`	`wdn.wowinterface.com?`
`10:46.14`	`Corrodias`	`hmm, it looks to me like they added a Blizzard_CombatText addon... what's that, now?`
`10:47.51`	`zenzelezz`	`if I didn't know better, I'd guess it was some sort of combat... text... =D`
`10:50.01`	`Corrodias`	`we already have combat text`
`10:57.25`	`Neronix`	`[Ammo]: I mean diffs of the patch notes`
`10:57.28`	`[Ammo]`	`ah ok`
`10:57.44`	`Mikk`	`Corrodias: SCT sort of`
`10:57.45`	`AnduinLothar`	`blizz's version of sct`
`10:58.30`	`Corrodias`	`:( i was hoping it was maybe a way for addon authors to access combat related info without parsing strings all day`
`10:58.58`	`Mikk`	`No, that's CombLib =)`
`11:02.14`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tuplad (n=tuplad@d54C52170.access.telenet.be)`
`11:03.24`	`Neronix`	`s/version of/poor attempt at emulating/`
`11:03.25`	`Neronix`	`fixed`
`11:04.12`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge SBird (i=sbird@pool-72-75-126-73.washdc.east.verizon.net)`
`11:04.19`	`Corrodias`	`so... is there a way to disable it?`
`11:04.43`	`Corrodias`	`i don't recall the ability to disable blizzard addons in the chooser`
`11:06.30`	`AnduinLothar`	`sure there is`
`11:06.53`	`AnduinLothar`	`i think..`
`11:07.16`	`AnduinLothar`	`add an empty toc file`
`11:07.26`	`Neronix`	`It appears in the blizzard addon menu iirc`
`11:07.31`	`Neronix`	`And can be disabled from there`
`11:07.47`	`zenzelezz`	`I would be surprised if they added something SCT-like and didn't let you either disable it in the addon screen or in the regular interface options screen`
`11:09.59`	`gnorlish`	`you mean you wouldn't be surprised`
`11:10.04`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge dotnetted_loc2 (n=dotnette@68-114-18-41.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com)`
`11:10.23`	`zenzelezz`	`no, I mean exactly what I said`
`11:10.54`	`Mikk`	`it won't be in the addon screen`
`11:11.00`	`Mikk`	`interface options... yes`
`11:11.06`	`Mikk`	`not that THAT will keep it from LOADING`
`11:11.27`	`Mikk`	`Neronix: "Blizzard Addon Menu"?`
`11:12.25`	`Mikk`	`We're talking about the standard addon menu where blizzard addons have never ended up thus far? o.O`
`11:13.40`	`Corrodias`	`what addon menu...`
`11:13.41`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`I'm looking to dev an app/mod that would verify that an item has been given to another player (by either automatically giving or by monitoring) -- would lua be at all useful for what i'm doing or should I go with dll injection? -- the app/mod would need to be tamper-proof by the person running it`
`11:13.47`	`Corrodias`	`just kidding`
`11:14.18`	`Mikk`	`dotnetted_loc2: I wouldn't recommend DLL injection as that's against TOS`
`11:14.19`	`Corrodias`	`well, dll injection into the client, screwing with the client code, will get your users banned`
`11:14.41`	`Corrodias`	`so i'd recommend the other method`
`11:14.45`	`Kaso`	`the mind boggles as to what you are doing`
`11:15.16`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`well considering it has understandable harmless functionality and that the injection could be made as to be undetectable -- it's still an option`
`11:15.17`	`Corrodias`	`he apparently wants to make something that verifies that a trade is successful`
`11:15.37`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`or am I mistaken =] ?`
`11:15.40`	`Corrodias`	`if it were undetectable, the whole premise of Warden is flawed and there would be some hacks.`
`11:15.48`	`zenzelezz`	`I don't think Cairenn would appreciate any discussion of things that violate the TOS here`
`11:15.55`	`Mikk`	`dotnetted_loc2: "harmless" doesn't exist in blizzard's vocabulary when client modification is concerned`
`11:16.09`	`Corrodias`	`zenzelezz: there's a differnce between discussing something and doing it`
`11:16.20`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`what are my alternatives?`
`11:16.21`	`Corrodias`	`for example, US law does not forbid people from talking abut murder`
`11:16.22`	`zenzelezz`	`with all the listeners here, the line is thin`
`11:16.39`	`Mikk`	`dotnetted_loc2: What exactly are you attempting to accomplish?`
`11:16.55`	`Mikk`	`Anything that requires code running at a potentially hostile person's computer is iffy at best`
`11:16.55`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`Mikk: exactly whta corrodias guessed`
`11:17.13`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`a trade verification`
`11:17.32`	`zenzelezz`	`isn't the "trade complete" good enough?`
`11:17.35`	`Mikk`	`I don't get it... if it disappeared out of your inventory... he got it`
`11:17.50`	`Corrodias`	`if there is any text put into the chat box when a trade is completed, you may be able to watch ... something for that message to come up`
`11:17.54`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`something that would verify it from a 3rd party standpoint`
`11:17.57`	`Mikk`	`ah`
`11:18.01`	`Corrodias`	`i really don't know how addons deal with text like that`
`11:18.25`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`corrodias: i thought of maybe sniffing the packets but decided that those could be spoofed too`
`11:18.26`	`zenzelezz`	`don't think you could do that either wy`
`11:18.42`	`zenzelezz`	`as far as I know you have no access whatsoever to other players' inventories`
`11:18.55`	`Mikk`	`s/inventory/backpack/`
`11:19.01`	`Mikk`	`blizzard calls equipment "inventory" >.<`
`11:19.18`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`zenzelezz: who's talking about accessing other people's inventories?`
`11:19.20`	`zenzelezz`	`my jargon is all over the place; most of it retained from Anarchy Online, so bear with me :)`
`11:19.41`	`Mikk`	`zenzelezz: every other game i know of calls inventory inventory... it's just blizzard that calls equipment inventory :-P`
`11:19.44`	`Neronix`	`Mikk: BCT seems to be an exception. It shows up in there iirc`
`11:19.50`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`a verification that a trade took place and the item has gone would be good enough`
`11:19.57`	`Mikk`	`Neronix: oh. cool then =)`
`11:20.05`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl)`
`11:20.05`	`zenzelezz`	`dotnetted_loc2: I'm curious how else you would know someone was trading; but I'm a noob in this`
`11:20.18`	`Neronix`	`speaking of combat text, I need to try out SCT5`
`11:20.28`	`Mikk`	`dotnetted_loc2: what is your usage scenario?`
`11:20.30`	`zenzelezz`	`I just expect your way of knowing somene is trading is to try to trade with them and get the "blah blah is busy" message`
`11:20.44`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`zanz: this is outside of the game`
`11:20.53`	`zenzelezz`	`O_o`
`11:21.05`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`so that a site (for example) could list verified trades`
`11:21.26`	`Mikk`	`tbh, noone here is going to help you do anything outside of the scripting engine`
`11:21.33`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`by the trader running an app (or whatever) that could verify the item has gone`
`11:21.35`	`zenzelezz`	`sounds slightly suspicious`
`11:21.39`	`Corrodias`	`i wouldn't say THAT, Mikk...`
`11:21.47`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`how is that suspicious?`
`11:21.50`	`Mikk`	`not in-channel anyway :-P`
`11:22.09`	`Corrodias`	`well, i would like if that's not true, anyway. i was hoping some people might be interested in helping test my item price lookup utility later :( it watches the clipboard for information`
`11:22.25`	`Mikk`	`that's slightly different tbh :-P`
`11:22.39`	`Corrodias`	`different, yes, but it doesn't involve a single byte of LUA`
`11:22.55`	`zenzelezz`	`just my limited mind picturing this as more at home for item/gold sale sites than something else`
`11:22.57`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`is there another channel that would be better categorized for this?`
`11:23.00`	`Mikk`	`well.. blizzard allows us to copy info out of the game with ctrl-c. that's what you're doing.`
`11:23.23`	`Corrodias`	`there's nothing wrong with keeping a list of the trades you've made. however, i don't know how to do that.`
`11:24.01`	`Corrodias`	`you can easily write out a list to the savedvariables file and make a program that parses that after the user exits the client (because it's not updated until the UI is closed or restarted)`
`11:24.05`	`Mikk`	`i know how to do it from a first person view in lua. i don't want to know how to do it from a 3rd person view because that requires network channel monitoring or client hacking :-P`
`11:24.08`	`Corrodias`	`if you can figure out how to obtain such a list`
`11:24.49`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`mikk: the 3rd person only enters the equation after the player runs the app locally to extract the information`
`11:24.50`	`Corrodias`	`i think he means that the person running the addon maintains information only about his own trades, and a third party can look at that list. am i mistaken?`
`11:25.41`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`corrodias: something like that -- except the trades must not be able to be falsified`
`11:26.13`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Mikk (i=bofh@81-233-236-26-no19.tbcn.telia.com)`
`11:26.14`	`Corrodias`	`as far as i'm aware, there's nothing you can do that will ever be competely unhackable, unless you make your own Warden :) although that can't stop anything within WoW.`
`11:26.33`	`Corrodias`	`yeah, there's real-life money being spent on my WoW subscription >:P`
`11:26.49`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`oh well =/`
`11:27.28`	`Corrodias`	`if you can write an addon that saves information, somebody else can. Blizzard will not allow (that is, will tell the Warden to ban people who do) you to monitor network traffic or game memory to see things happening.`
`11:27.32`	`zenzelezz`	`I couldn't help even if I wanted to; but unless you're a really great hacker, I think you almost have to assume blind trust on one of the parties`
`11:28.28`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`maybe i'll have to resort to screen captures a the moment of the trade =]`
`11:28.43`	`zenzelezz`	`that could be a possibility`
`11:28.59`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`and then run some freaky neural algorithms to check the images`
`11:29.21`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`but that could be faked too -- bah forget it heh`
`11:29.52`	`zenzelezz`	`afraid it's just not a very simple thing to accomplish - at least not with my (admittedly rather limited) knowledge`
`11:30.12`	`dotnetted_loc2`	`well thanks for the info`
`11:30.26`	`Corrodias`	`np`
`11:31.35`	`Corrodias`	`on another note entirely, i wonder if i should develop this item price checker for public use or only private. i mean, it's not like people can't already alt+tab every time they want to check a price, but i don't want to make it easier for people to post correct prices in the AH so i can't get great deals... ;/`
`11:32.02`	`zenzelezz`	`"correct" is a vague concept`
`11:32.21`	`zenzelezz`	`some prices on my realm are much the same as the median on Allakhazam, others are way different`
`11:32.33`	`Corrodias`	`reasonable such that many people will pay significantly more for it`
`11:32.45`	`Corrodias`	`but you're right, even that is only an estimate`
`11:33.09`	`Corrodias`	`auctioneer just doesn't help much at all, though, because it can't tell what people buy things for, but rather only what they are offered for`
`11:33.51`	`zenzelezz`	`I think I only use auctioneer to remember what prices I sell things for... other than that it's the Informant part I like most o_O`
`11:35.40`	`AnduinLothar`	`well if you checked frequently it could concievably track what people buyout (presuming most people don't remove auctions, tho that could be faked)`
`11:36.44`	`Corrodias`	`good point. i don't know what algorithm i uses for that.`
`11:36.54`	`Corrodias`	`maybe it does attempt to determine which auctions have disappeared before expiring.`
`11:43.01`	`Corrodias`	`i will sleep, now. 'ni`
`11:43.51`	`zenzelezz`	`ni`
`11:44.14`	`AnduinLothar`	`ckknight, you around?`
`11:45.10`	`AnduinLothar`	`are you doing anything about channel lists? Getting who has AceComm that is in the AddonChannel?`
`12:36.13`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Mikk (i=bofh@81-233-236-26-no19.tbcn.telia.com)`
`12:36.28`	`Mikk`	`AUGH! Vacation beards ft lose`
`12:36.42`	`Mikk`	`I just cut my bloody NOSE shaving that tangle of a shrubbery off >.<`
`12:36.56`	`AnduinLothar`	`aww`
`12:37.26`	`AnduinLothar`	`is there a raid joined event or do i have to use RAID_ROSTER_UPDATE ?`
`12:37.51`	`Mikk`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Events/Party`
`12:38.10`	`AnduinLothar`	`yeah that page doesn't even have RAID_ROSTER_UPDATE on it`
`12:38.45`	`Mikk`	`aye i just noticed >.<`
`12:38.52`	`Mikk`	`i'd somehow managed to flag it a Quest event`
`12:39.51`	`AnduinLothar`	`gg`
`12:40.05`	`Mikk`	`What can I say, there was a lot of events to categorize :-P`
`12:40.19`	`AnduinLothar`	`so you dont have an answer to ym question`
`12:41.20`	`Mikk`	`As far as I know, RAID_ROSTER_UPDATE is the one to monitor`
`12:52.42`	`AnduinLothar`	`night`
`13:13.44`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`13:19.55`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@24.129.136.26)`
`13:19.56`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ`
`13:25.07`	`End`	`I wonder why we have setglobal/getglobal instead of getting to use _G`
`13:25.31`	`Mikk`	`Set _G yourself and have it`
`13:25.38`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`13:25.42`	`Mikk`	`_G = getfenv(0)`
`13:25.43`	`End`	`that's not what I was wondering`
`13:26.03`	`End`	`I'm well aware of what I can do.`
`13:26.03`	`Mikk`	`mm, i've been wondering the same`
`13:26.11`	`End`	`I'm wondering why Blizzard did it that way.`
`13:26.15`	`Mikk`	`indeed`
`13:38.16`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@p54A508D9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`14:08.28`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@81-226-233-5-no60.tbcn.telia.com)`
`14:11.56`	`Kirkburn`	`How to ruin a perfectly good laptop: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dantekgeek/189891071/in/set-72157594199655908`
`14:14.12`	`Mikk`	`What the HELL is Web 2.0 anyway?!`
`14:14.25`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge snurre (n=snurre@AVelizy-153-1-17-68.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`14:15.42`	`Mikk`	`Ah. Web 2.0 = wikis, blogs....`
`14:16.23`	`Kirkburn`	`hehe`
`14:16.26`	`Kirkburn`	`It's not`
`14:16.27`	`Mikk`	`s/internet/WWW/`
`14:16.38`	`Zicon`	`Web 2.0 = "My shiny new web-thingie is much too fancy to just be a regular web-thingie. I know, I'll call it Web 2.0-thingie instead!"`
`14:16.40`	`Kirkburn`	`I was just looking at the wikipedia web 2.0 article.`
`14:16.44`	`Mikk`	`Yeah same`
`14:16.48`	`Mikk`	`Folksonomy!`
`14:16.50`	`Kirkburn`	`Gotta love marketing terms`
`14:17.02`	`Kirkburn`	`Notice the giant spelling mistake?`
`14:17.04`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Abenadi (n=mtgother@wsip-70-166-187-15.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`14:17.09`	`Mikk`	`No. I'm tired :-P`
`14:17.21`	`Kirkburn`	`Recommendation, with two Cs :)`
`14:17.31`	`Mikk`	`Ah, that one. I think that's not a typo`
`14:18.03`	`Kirkburn`	`How could it not be? It's misspelt :/`
`14:18.12`	`Mikk`	`i take it back`
`14:18.16`	`Mikk`	`i thought it was some flashy new term`
`14:18.22`	`Mikk`	`it's just a typo ^^`
`14:18.33`	`Mikk`	`And yeah I did notice it :-P`
`14:18.36`	`Kirkburn`	`=)`
`14:19.11`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower\|ZZzz (n=chatzill@host-70-45-82-92.onelinkpr.net)`
`14:19.11`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Tuplad (n=tuplad@d54C52170.access.telenet.be)`
`14:19.20`	`Mikk`	`So, basically...`
`14:19.26`	`Mikk`	`Web 2.0 means people talking to people`
`14:19.32`	`Mikk`	`Why's there a marketing buzz around it then?`
`14:19.37`	`Mikk`	`Sounds like a no-win situation for all companies :-P`
`14:19.59`	`Mikk`	`Well except possible a few companies making server software`
`14:20.06`	`MentalPower`	`morning folks`
`14:20.17`	`Mikk`	`(Oh, wait, most wikis are open sores :-P)`
`14:20.23`	`Mikk`	`(and that wasn't a typo)`
`14:20.30`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tuplad (n=tuplad@d54C52170.access.telenet.be)`
`14:23.02`	`Hexarobi`	`mornin`
`14:23.14`	`Tuplad`	`~morning Hexarobi`
`14:23.21`	`purl`	`ACTION bends space and time, trapping Hexarobi in a universe of eternal monday mornings`
`14:24.35`	`Hexarobi`	`looks like somebodys got a case of the mondays`
`14:25.12`	`Tuplad`	`=D`
`14:30.20`	ag`	`~morning purl`
`14:30.22`	`purl`	`ACTION bends space and time, trapping purl in a universe of eternal monday mornings`
`14:32.39`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Beladon1 (n=sluster@24.129.136.26)`
`14:33.06`	`Tuplad`	`;\`
`14:33.36`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ`
`14:33.58`	ag`	`What does Ajax have to do with web2.0`
`14:34.12`	`Beladona`	`its a rich internet framework`
`14:34.25`	`Beladona`	`which is what web 2.0 is all about`
`14:38.07`	`Beladona`	`http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/tim/news/2005/09/30/what-is-web-20.html`
`14:38.19`	`Beladona`	`it defines the web as an application platform`
`14:39.04`	`Beladona`	`communication and collaboration is just one item in a long list of uses`
`14:40.40`	`End`	`a lot of google's stuff (such as gmail, the calendar, spreadsheets, etc) is very web 2.0ish`
`14:41.02`	`Beladona`	`aye`
`14:41.06`	`Hexarobi`	`its a freakin buzzword`
`14:41.10`	`Beladona`	`Flickr is a perfect example`
`14:41.19`	`Beladona`	`of course it is`
`14:41.36`	`Beladona`	`its a label they are putting on something that has slowly been evolving the past couple years`
`14:41.39`	`Mikk`	`Beladona: It also says "An attitude, not a technology" :-P`
`14:41.50`	`Beladona`	`well duh`
`14:41.57`	`Hexarobi`	`the b2b synergy is really astounding`
`14:42.06`	`Beladona`	`web 2.0 is a style of presentation. What technology you use to get there is up to you`
`14:42.19`	`Hexarobi`	`why dont they just call it x-web`
`14:42.35`	`Beladona`	`or super-d-duper web`
`14:42.40`	`Beladona`	`0.o`
`14:43.10`	`Beladona`	`this is just another evolution of the ASP idea in my opinion`
`14:43.32`	`Beladona`	`Application Service Providers, using the web as the point of distribution`
`14:43.50`	`Hexarobi`	`its just a new way to do the same old crap on the internet`
`14:44.00`	`Hexarobi`	`calling it a new name makes it easier to sell`
`14:44.07`	`Beladona`	`now that I don't agree with`
`14:44.21`	`Beladona`	`many of the things they are doing with it wasn't around before`
`14:44.26`	`Beladona`	`in web format that is`
`14:44.35`	`Hexarobi`	`email, spreadhseets, those are new`
`14:44.47`	`Hexarobi`	`because nobody wants them in web format`
`14:44.50`	`Beladona`	`example: an office online`
`14:45.00`	`Hexarobi`	`nobody wants office that slow`
`14:45.01`	`Beladona`	`word, outlook, excel, all from a browser`
`14:45.03`	`Hexarobi`	`i gotta run`
`14:45.12`	`Hexarobi`	`will continue later ;)`
`14:45.12`	`Beladona`	`maybe not, but you gain too`
`14:45.13`	`Hexarobi`	`peace`
`14:45.17`	`Beladona`	`collaboration`
`14:46.01`	`Kirkburn`	`It means bugger all, it's just something someone made up to describe how the internet has changed and is changing`
`14:46.06`	`End`	`I think the access anywhere is a significant advantage`
`14:46.31`	`Beladona`	`sure, but if you follow that sentiment, the original word "web" was a useless term too`
`14:46.43`	`Kirkburn`	`You can't make a "Web 2.0" website, because it's non-sensical. It's a modern website.`
`14:46.54`	`Beladona`	`technology and the internet is full of catch phrases and terms that were made up`
`14:46.57`	`Beladona`	`nothing new there`
`14:47.00`	`Kirkburn`	`True`
`14:47.22`	`Mikk`	`"Yes, we'll produce a web site for you. Sure, it'll be Web 2.0, we don't do old stuff."`
`14:47.31`	`Kirkburn`	`I'm just saying that unlike, say, HTML, it doesn't actually define anything except an ideology`
`14:47.32`	`Beladona`	`CSS2`
`14:47.43`	`Tain`	`Sorry I don't do Web 2.0. I'm on Web 3.0.`
`14:47.47`	`Beladona`	`new features in an existing technology`
`14:47.52`	`Beladona`	`same thing`
`14:47.55`	`End`	`Tain is always on the bleeding edge`
`14:48.14`	`Beladona`	`Tain is always on the bleeding edge, cause he likes to fall off the edge every now and then`
`14:48.17`	`Beladona`	`just to feel alive`
`14:48.18`	`Beladona`	`hehe`
`14:48.33`	`End`	`maybe Tain just likes cutting himself?`
`14:48.36`	`Tain`	`Actually that's usually due to drunkeness moreso than anything else.`
`14:48.43`	`Beladona`	`lol`
`14:49.01`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`14:49.07`	`Kirkburn1`	`scream`
`14:49.20`	`Tain`	`I cut myself today to see if I still feel.`
`14:49.44`	`End`	`do you?`
`14:50.00`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@c-24-130-132-225.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`14:50.07`	`End`	`(I mean, do you still feel?)`
`14:50.08`	`Tain`	`Listen to Nine Inch Nails? I used to, sure.`
`14:50.21`	`End`	`oh yeah`
`14:51.05`	`Beladona`	`the one thing that I find totally stupid is that someone decided to trademark "web 2.0"`
`14:51.20`	`End`	`I agree it is a bit silly.`
`14:51.35`	`End`	`ok`
`14:51.37`	`End`	`maybe a lot silly`
`14:51.47`	`Beladona`	`thats just an example of someone out to fnid ways to sue people`
`14:51.49`	`Kirkburn1`	`Someone managed to trademark it?!`
`14:51.55`	`Beladona`	`oh yeah`
`14:52.59`	`Beladona`	`O'Reilly Networks did apparently`
`14:53.43`	`End`	`A trademark there doesn't make much sense to me.`
`14:53.53`	`Beladona`	`http://www.tomrafteryit.net/oreilly-trademarks-web-20-and-sets-lawyers-on-itcork/`
`14:53.57`	`Beladona`	`its a freakin standard`
`14:54.05`	`Beladona`	`trademarking it only pisses people off`
`14:54.21`	`End`	`I mean what are you really trying to protect about the name? And from what?`
`14:54.50`	`Beladona`	`now if they had trademarked it to prevent someone else from trademarking it. But then left it open for use, then fine`
`14:55.00`	`Beladona`	`but they actually sued someone`
`14:55.28`	`Kirkburn1`	`(well, actually it's not a 'standard', as such, if we're being picky :P )`
`14:56.01`	`Beladona`	`a standard is a set of ideas that people or groups of people accept`
`14:56.06`	`Beladona`	`in that sense, I would say it is`
`14:56.21`	`Kirkburn1`	`Okay, just not in the technical sense :)`
`14:56.28`	`Beladona`	`right`
`14:56.32`	`Beladona`	`its a very loose standard`
`14:56.47`	`Kirkburn1`	`Indeedy :)`
`14:57.19`	`Kirkburn1`	`Time to go back to coding my Web 1.0 websites :P`
`14:57.29`	`Beladona`	`haha`
`14:57.35`	`Beladona`	`I may play with Ajax later`
`14:57.45`	`Beladona`	`I am interested in seeing what I can do with it on wdn`
`14:58.14`	`Beladona`	`compare any to any, ftw!`
`14:58.28`	`Kirkburn1`	`Heh`
`14:58.43`	`Kirkburn1`	`There must be millions of combinations now`
`14:58.53`	`Tain`	`That's one of the things with AJAX, or well with any technology. People start using it for anything just because they can, even if it's not best suited for what they're doing.`
`14:58.55`	`End`	`browser compatability issues bother me, but there are several toolkits wandering around now`
`14:59.13`	`Beladona`	`hence the impossibility of providing that without some kind of automated backend to do it`
`14:59.26`	`Kirkburn1`	`I take that back`
`14:59.28`	`Beladona`	`no way in hell I am gonna run a compare for every possible compare combination`
`14:59.34`	`Kirkburn1`	`The number is unimaginably large`
`14:59.47`	`Kirkburn1`	`Probably more than the number of atoms in the universe`
`15:00.47`	`Kirkburn1`	`56x55x54x53x ... x2x1`
`15:00.50`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Andalia (n=xx@p54AD96D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`15:01.15`	`Kirkburn1`	`(56 patches are listed if I counted corecctly)`
`15:01.23`	`Kirkburn1`	`*correctly :)`
`15:01.33`	`Beladona`	`lol`
`15:01.58`	`Kirkburn1`	`7.11 x 10^74`
`15:02.08`	`Kirkburn1`	`Quite large really`
`15:02.52`	`Kirkburn1`	`Actually, I may be approaching that the wrong way`
`15:03.36`	`Kirkburn1`	`Hmm, I think it's 56+55+54+ ... +1, not 'x'`
`15:04.07`	`Beladona`	`well if it is truly any to any compares, would it not be 56^56?`
`15:04.23`	`Beladona`	`even same to same version counts`
`15:05.19`	`Kirkburn1`	`1552 I think it more realistic - 56 for the first set of compares, 55 for the next patches set of compares (as one has already been done) etc`
`15:05.38`	`Beladona`	`course, that is single compares`
`15:05.45`	`Beladona`	`each one can potentially have test and live`
`15:05.53`	`Kirkburn1`	`Those are alreayd included`
`15:06.14`	`Kirkburn1`	`Each patch is treated individually, its status has no bearing on the compares :)`
`15:06.43`	`Kirkburn1`	`Your live/test compares are a small foray into the compare all idea`
`15:06.55`	`Beladona`	`aye`
`15:07.17`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@71.216.187.14)`
`15:07.37`	`Kirkburn1`	`Still, I don't think you'll sit there doing 1500 compares in your spare time :P`
`15:08.46`	`Kirkburn1`	`I'm not seeing any changes on the 5/8 test build`
`15:09.29`	`Kirkburn1`	`2006-8-5, if I must be american :(`
`15:09.39`	`Kirkburn1`	`The 8-9 ones are fine though`
`15:10.01`	`Kirkburn1`	`(I should've just said the build number)`
`15:11.30`	`Kirkburn`	`This is to you Beladona btw :P`
`15:12.06`	`End`	`yeah, I noticed tha too`
`15:12.32`	`End`	`also`
`15:12.35`	`End`	`look at the end`
`15:12.57`	`End`	`it shows 0.12.0.5537.zip as a deleted file`
`15:18.43`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge cogwheel (n=chatzill@intra.kistlerwine.com)`
`15:20.21`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Beladon1 (n=sluster@24.129.136.26)`
`15:20.48`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ`
`15:21.10`	`End`	`If you visit Google Moon (moon.google.com), which is basically google maps but with the moon, and if you zoom all the way in, it shows cheese`
`15:21.18`	`cogwheel`	`hehe`
`15:21.37`	`Beladona`	`can you guys link me where you see this error?`
`15:21.41`	`Beladona`	`I dont get it`
`15:22.18`	`Kirkburn`	`Check the 5561 download`
`15:22.19`	`End`	`well`
`15:22.24`	`Kirkburn`	`And the 5561 compares`
`15:22.26`	`End`	`for example, look at http://wdn.wowinterface.com/detail/01205561/test/1`
`15:22.27`	`End`	`it's empty`
`15:22.29`	`Beladona`	`they work for me`
`15:22.42`	`End`	`also`
`15:22.55`	`End`	`look at the end of http://wdn.wowinterface.com/compare/01205561/test`
`15:23.16`	`End`	`the last file entry`
`15:23.26`	`Beladona`	`oh`
`15:23.28`	`Beladona`	`weird`
`15:23.39`	`End`	`I agree.`
`15:23.41`	`End`	`definitely weird`
`15:25.27`	`cogwheel`	`Beladona, is there any way to view the changes between two arbitrary versions or is this all static on the server?`
`15:26.00`	`Beladona`	`we were just talking about that`
`15:26.04`	`Beladona`	`its static`
`15:26.09`	`Beladona`	`I run the compares manually`
`15:49.29`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Amro (n=skaarj_h@82.101.184.143)`
`15:51.00`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=sluster@24.129.136.26)`
`15:51.00`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ`
`15:51.42`	`Beladona`	`stupid wireless is acting up`
`15:51.47`	`Beladona`	`keep getting dumped`
`15:59.34`	`Kirkburn`	`Sounds familiar :P`
`16:02.39`	`cogwheel`	`kirkburn, can you pass along a Merci for me? ;)`
`16:05.44`	`Kirkburn`	`dun :)`
`16:05.50`	`cogwheel`	`Merci ;)`
`16:06.20`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@c-24-130-132-225.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`16:07.07`	`Kirkburn`	`Bitte? :P`
`16:20.05`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`16:30.46`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Rallion (i=Rallion@cpe-24-195-130-102.nycap.res.rr.com)`
`16:32.04`	`Cairenn`	`nope, you're just a figmentation of our imaginenments`
`16:32.13`	`cogwheel`	`Woot!`
`16:34.40`	`Rallion`	`I've always felt that 'monitor' was a poor choice of term.`
`16:34.42`	`cogwheel`	`<.< >.>`
`16:37.57`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu)`
`16:38.06`	`JoshBorke`	`hello`
`16:38.42`	`Cairenn`	`hi JoshBorke`
`16:38.54`	`cogwheel`	`BuyEmAll hooks exactly two bult-in functions: MerchantItemButton_OnClick and MerchantFrame_OnHide. The rest of it is completely self-contained, yet i'm getting reports that it interferes with AdvanceTradeSkillWindow... But ATSW doesn't seem to modify either of those :\`
`16:40.15`	`Cairenn`	`if you need a chuckle: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?p=27201#post27201`
`16:41.03`	`JoshBorke`	`Cairenn: :-D`
`16:41.17`	`Cairenn`	`You have to actually read it, it's amusing`
`16:41.28`	`JoshBorke`	`i did :-)`
`16:41.33`	`Cairenn`	`you're fast`
`16:41.39`	`Cairenn`	`or you've seen it before ;)`
`16:42.22`	`JoshBorke`	`anyone know of a mod similar to MonitorStatus?`
`16:48.07`	`cogwheel`	`Cairenn: "that is great!!!! I love it! I wish there was a way to condense it and use it as a signature!" -- my wife ;)`
`16:48.15`	`Cairenn`	`lol`
`16:48.18`	`JoshBorke`	`lol`
`16:49.05`	`cogwheel`	`Man... she goes through BOOKs like there's no tomorrow and STILL has time to play WoW...`
`16:49.14`	`Cairenn`	`ditto`
`16:50.11`	`cogwheel`	`I've been reading LOTR since high school and i'm only about 60 pages into RotK....`
`16:50.17`	`cogwheel`	`(I'm 23... lol)`
`16:50.51`	`Rallion`	`lol I finished RotK when I was 9`
`16:51.08`	`Rallion`	`I read it again around 16 or so, didn't remember a THING.`
`16:57.41`	`Cairenn`	`btw, I take no credit for that, it's been around for quite some time now. I just dug it out again after reading Woody's comic yesterday`
`17:01.31`	`*** topic/#wowi-lounge by Cairenn -> In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.\| Paste Code: http://wowi.pastey.net/`
`17:01.54`	`Rallion`	`At least we have digital watches.`
`17:03.42`	`Rallion`	`What would you actually think if you heard that all the dolphins disappeared?`
`17:03.54`	`cogwheel`	`I think my favorite (might not be exactly correct) was: "The ships hung in the air much in the same way bricks don't"`
`17:03.57`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirov (n=Kirov@adsl-64-161-16-97.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`17:04.06`	`ckknight_`	`AnduinLothar, channel lists?`
`17:04.22`	`Rallion`	`hehe yeah, that's one of my favorites`
`17:05.58`	`Cairenn`	`bah, I still use an analog watch`
`17:06.20`	`Cairenn`	`I don't like digitals`
`17:06.23`	`cogwheel`	`cairenn, i use a hybrid ;) analog with a digital display.`
`17:07.09`	`Cairenn`	`analogs are prettier`
`17:07.09`	`cogwheel`	`though the digital part is set to display the date atm`
`17:07.09`	`Rallion`	`I also have a hybrid`
`17:07.09`	`Rallion`	`with atomic clock sync!`
`17:07.22`	`Cairenn`	`hard to wear a digital when you are dressing formally`
`17:07.36`	`Rallion`	`if you'rea girl, sure`
`17:07.38`	`Cairenn`	`just doesn't "fit"`
`17:07.43`	`Cairenn`	`if you're a guy, too`
`17:07.51`	`Rallion`	`or perhaps I should say 'a lady'`
`17:07.54`	`Cairenn`	`actually, guys should use a pocket watch`
`17:08.01`	`Cairenn`	`(for formal)`
`17:08.10`	`JoshBorke`	`mmm, i've always like pocket watches`
`17:08.15`	`Abenadi`	`I don't like any metal-banded watches. I prefer the leather ones. Unfortunately so does my dog.`
`17:08.21`	`Rallion`	`if you're going to go THAT formal I'd think all wristwatches would be out`
`17:08.31`	`End`	`pocket watch?`
`17:08.45`	`Cairenn`	`boggle`
`17:09.03`	`End`	`:P`
`17:09.29`	`cogwheel`	`I get "pocket", i get "watch", but put the two together and i have no idea what you're talking about... :P`
`17:09.39`	`Rallion`	`I don't like leather, personally...I don't like anything that's going to absorb sweat :P`
`17:09.43`	`Cairenn`	`tell me you're joking`
`17:09.51`	`Cairenn`	`you don't know what a pocket watch is?`
`17:09.54`	`Rallion`	`wow`
`17:10.01`	`Gryphen`	`whoa`
`17:10.28`	`cogwheel`	`Back in the day, pocket watches were just watches and wrist watches were something special...`
`17:10.34`	`Abenadi`	`its when your band is broken so it doesn't stay on your wrist, right Cog?`
`17:10.42`	`Abenadi`	`=P`
`17:10.43`	`End`	`hehe`
`17:10.45`	`JoshBorke`	`cogwheel: clocks?`
`17:11.03`	`End`	`pocket clock`
`17:11.47`	`Rallion`	`it's funny to see a comment by 'cogwheel' saying he doesn't know what a pocketwatch is :P`
`17:11.57`	`cogwheel`	`lol`
`17:12.09`	`Kirov`	`hehe`
`17:12.14`	`JoshBorke`	`lol`
`17:12.16`	`Kirov`	`I have a pocket watch, rather nice one too.`
`17:12.28`	`Kirov`	`I haven't used it in a long time though.`
`17:12.32`	`Rallion`	`I don't really have nice things`
`17:12.47`	`Rallion`	`I have a few things that SEEM at least sorta nice...but aren't`
`17:12.50`	`cogwheel`	`All my nice things are electronic ;)`
`17:13.16`	`End`	`all my things, nice or not, are electronic ;p`
`17:13.25`	`End`	`...I'm only slightly kidding`
`17:13.45`	`JoshBorke`	`ok, bye all :-)`
`17:13.46`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu)`
`17:13.52`	`End`	`like...I have clothes...I don't have electronic clothes...`
`17:14.17`	`Cairenn`	`they're out there though`
`17:14.21`	`Rallion`	`ooh but they have some now`
`17:14.22`	`End`	`brb`
`17:14.23`	`Rallion`	`yeah`
`17:14.28`	`Rallion`	`I'll have to get right on that`
`17:15.32`	`Rallion`	`man, my stuff sucks.`
`17:15.54`	`Rallion`	`even clothes. I can look all snazzy one day, but if I want to look snazzy the next day too I better be ready to do some laundry.`
`17:15.56`	`Abenadi`	`Is it valid to do something like this? <Size><AbsDimension x=this:GetParent():GetWidth() y="100"/></Size> ... or do I have to set the size in OnLoad?`
`17:16.25`	`Kirov`	`no`
`17:17.31`	`Kirov`	`Abenadi - xml values cannot take lua script. The only place it's valid to have lua is between script tags.`
`17:17.38`	`Abenadi`	`ok makes sense`
`17:17.50`	`Abenadi`	`can x take a percentage value?`
`17:18.01`	`Kirov`	`Also no.`
`17:18.03`	`Abenadi`	`k`
`17:18.40`	`Kirov`	`x="1" or x="2.5" etc. only`
`17:18.40`	`Abenadi`	`so basically I set everything statically to begin with, and when I resize the 'master' frame I can resize the children within the script using getwidth etc`
`17:18.55`	`Rallion`	`yep`
`17:19.08`	`Kirov`	`Yes, but if you're doing what I think you're doing, you probably just want to use anchors to size a frame.`
`17:19.25`	`Abenadi`	`I'm probably doing what you think I'm doing`
`17:19.49`	`cogwheel`	`Anchors are your friend`
`17:19.52`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (i=ckknight@rrcs-67-53-204-251.west.biz.rr.com)`
`17:19.58`	`Kirov`	`If you define a size to a frame, then set anchors to the left and right (or, more commonly the topleft and bottomright) then the anchors will override the size`
`17:19.59`	`cogwheel`	`children anchored to their parents will automatically resize`
`17:20.29`	`Kirov`	`what cogwheel said`
`17:20.31`	`Abenadi`	`do I need to use SetAllPoints in onload to do that?`
`17:20.37`	`Kirov`	`no`
`17:20.44`	`Kirov`	`In fact you shouldn't`
`17:21.01`	`Kirov`	`SetAllPoints effectively does the opposite.`
`17:21.57`	`Kirov`	`I've never tried SetAllPoints on a child frame, so I'm not actually sure what it'd do`
`17:22.06`	`Abenadi`	`I guess I'm not understanding something about anchors`
`17:22.17`	`ckknight_`	`Cairenn, can I get an approval?`
`17:22.34`	`ckknight_`	`I feel so loved.`
`17:22.37`	`Cairenn`	`;)`
`17:22.41`	`cogwheel`	`Abenadi: look here: http://wowi.pastey.net/197`
`17:22.41`	`Abenadi`	`I have a master layout frame that contains three frames that are on top of each other from top to bottom`
`17:23.11`	`cogwheel`	`See how the $parentBackTex is anchored to both $parentMoneyTex and $parentBottomTex?`
`17:23.18`	`ckknight_`	`Cairenn, specifically I meant an approval for FuBar-2.0`
`17:23.20`	`Cairenn`	`approved`
`17:23.29`	`Cairenn`	`I knew, I was being silly :p`
`17:23.31`	`Abenadi`	`Yeah I think I see now`
`17:23.39`	`Abenadi`	`I didn't know you could have multiple anchors like that at all`
`17:23.39`	`cogwheel`	`No matter how large the window gets, $parentBackTex will stretch to the appropriate size`
`17:23.54`	`cogwheel`	`Well now you do :D`
`17:24.04`	`Abenadi`	`remind me what texcoords does?`
`17:24.17`	`Kirov`	`sets the texture coordinates used by the frame`
`17:24.19`	`cogwheel`	`It picks which part of the texture file to display`
`17:24.24`	`Abenadi`	`ok`
`17:25.03`	`Rallion`	`it can even rotate the texture`
`17:25.28`	`Kirov`	`or skew it in bizarre unnatural ways`
`17:25.43`	`Rallion`	`but straight lines stay straight!`
`17:28.33`	`ckknight_`	`hrm`
`17:28.45`	`ckknight_`	`it was a month and a half since I last released FuBar`
`17:29.04`	`ckknight_`	`06-26 vs. 08-11`
`17:29.28`	`cogwheel`	`I guess it works too well ;)`
`17:29.58`	`ckknight_`	`lol`
`17:30.11`	`ckknight_`	`I was working on Ace2 during most of that time`
`17:30.33`	`ckknight_`	`I wanted to release it before I went on vacation for a week`
`17:32.10`	`Abenadi`	`so <Anchor point="TOP" relativePoint="BOTTOM" relativeTo="$parentMoneyTex"/>`
`17:32.10`	`Abenadi`	`26 <Anchor point="BOTTOM" relativePoint="TOP" relativeTo="$parentBottomTex"/>`
`17:32.16`	`Abenadi`	`sorry mispaste`
`17:34.34`	`Abenadi`	`so <Anchor point="TOPLEFT" relativePoint="TOPLEFT"><Anchor point="BOTTOMRIGHT" relativePoint="BOTTOMRIGHT"> would automatically resize a child frame to its parent on resize, right? and I could add Offsets to the anchors that would stay static on the resize?`
`17:34.47`	`cogwheel`	`yep`
`17:34.57`	`Abenadi`	`thanks very helpful`
`17:35.05`	`cogwheel`	`don't forget the "/" at the end of the tags, though ;)`
`17:35.25`	`Abenadi`	`right, well I would have offsets so I would have an </Anchor> tag`
`17:35.34`	`cogwheel`	`true.`
`17:36.48`	`cogwheel`	`FYI: I found a simpler way to do offsets and sizes (not even Blizz code uses it but it works perfectly): <Offset x="#" y="#" /> instead of <Offset><AbsDimension x="#" y="#"/></Offset>`
`17:37.11`	`Kirov`	`You also don't need to set a relativePoint if it's the same as the point`
`17:37.18`	`Rallion`	`yeah`
`17:37.19`	`Abenadi`	`ok thanks Cog & Kirov`
`17:37.24`	`Kirov`	`You only need to define both if they're different`
`17:37.27`	`Abenadi`	`got it`
`17:37.35`	`Abenadi`	`and relativeto is parent if not defined, yes?`
`17:37.53`	`cogwheel`	`yep`
`17:39.09`	`cogwheel`	`brb... rebooting`
`17:41.14`	`Kirkburn1`	`Haha: http://www.macspoofs.com/2006/08/10/ps3-vs-wii/`
`17:43.54`	`Kirov`	`lol`
`17:44.17`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge cogwheel (n=chatzill@intra.kistlerwine.com)`
`17:51.21`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn2 (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`18:05.49`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (i=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl)`
`18:07.06`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Tuplad (n=tuplad@d54C52170.access.telenet.be)`
`18:15.31`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tuplad (n=tuplad@d54C52170.access.telenet.be)`
`18:15.51`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (i=chuckg@66-237-5-116.starstream.net)`
`18:19.33`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`18:19.44`	`*** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Iriel] by ChanServ`
`18:19.47`	`End`	`hello Iriel`
`18:19.54`	`Iriel`	`Morning`
`18:20.33`	`Tuplad`	`I swear I just seen someone yelling "IGNORE IRIEL" in game...`
`18:20.59`	`Rallion`	`what did you do?`
`18:21.12`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (i=Dark--Sk@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl)`
`18:21.25`	`Tuplad`	`me ? nothing :O`
`18:21.49`	`Iriel`	`Hm, must have been an imposter!`
`18:21.52`	`Tuplad`	`some dude got crazy on a test server because his axe got ninjaed(in ZG) and was yelling that`
`18:22.16`	`Kirov`	`I always knew Iriel was up to no good!`
`18:22.19`	`Tuplad`	`:D`
`18:24.41`	`Cairenn`	`hey Iriel`
`18:25.17`	`Iriel`	`Hey cair`
`18:32.56`	`Iriel`	`Tonight I get to find out how much of the data on my failed drive I can recover, and how much is gone for good.`
`18:33.16`	`Cairenn`	`fun fun`
`18:35.34`	`Iriel`	`Then I can get my desk back, rather than have it strewn with tools, cables, and drives hanging out the side of my desktop`
`18:37.13`	`Kirov`	`MentalPower - you around?`
`18:49.58`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@cm19.gamma136.maxonline.com.sg)`
`18:50.22`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Shouryuu (n=Shouryuu@cm19.gamma136.maxonline.com.sg)`
`19:03.13`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Laric (n=laric@217-13-2-126.dd.nextgentel.com)`
`19:07.20`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge esp\|Syn (n=ben@comsecgb.plus.com)`
`19:09.30`	`Hexarobi`	`is setting a tooltip`
`19:09.33`	`Hexarobi`	`tooltip's owner enough to make it all work?`
`19:10.30`	`cogwheel`	`ckknight or anyone else familiar with ace2, do I have to use individual calls to AceLibrary("AceLocale-2.0"):new()? (I want to have it all in one file...)`
`19:11.39`	`Laric`	`wouldnt AceLibrary("AceAddon-2.0"):new("AceEvent-2.0", "AceConsole-2.0", "AceDB-2.0", "FuBarPlugin-2.0") should load all of em shouldnt it?`
`19:13.30`	`cogwheel`	`I'm not talking about loading the different mixins... The example on the website for AceLocale has a separate file for each locale. In each file it says "local L = AceLibrary("AceLocale-2.0"):new("MyAddon")"... what I want to know is does each locale require a separate call to new() or can I just do it once and make different calls to RegisterTranslations()`
`19:13.57`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge MentalPower (n=chatzill@host-70-45-82-92.onelinkpr.net)`
`19:14.23`	`Rallion`	`this is why I don't want to use Ace. I have no idea what any of that meant.`
`19:16.05`	`esp\|Syn`	`Anyone know of a mod requests forum? im bored and fancy making something`
`19:16.19`	`cogwheel`	`wowinterface.com has one`
`19:16.35`	`esp\|Syn`	`cheers`
`19:22.24`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`19:24.44`	`Rallion`	`so...uh...fubar doesn't work for me out-of-the-box`
`19:27.41`	`Laric`	`you donwloaded the new version?`
`19:27.56`	`Laric`	`not the first 2.0 release but ckknight released a newer version`
`19:28.21`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=legorol@cpc3-cmbg6-0-0-cust710.cmbg.cable.ntl.com)`
`19:28.34`	`Rallion`	`yeah`
`19:28.44`	`Rallion`	`maybe I screwed it up`
`19:28.48`	`Rallion`	`it happens. a lot.`
`19:28.50`	`Laric`	`what is the problem then?`
`19:29.08`	`Rallion`	`profile stuff, apparently`
`19:29.54`	`Laric`	`hmm try deleting the original fubar save file in wtf?`
`19:35.11`	`Rallion`	`there we go, works now`
`19:35.24`	`Rallion`	`probably because I deleted the file, but I recopied the files over too`
`19:37.52`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Mikk (i=bofh@81-233-236-26-no19.tbcn.telia.com)`
`19:51.24`	`cogwheel`	`I noticed that in XML if you put text="OKAY" it will localize OKAY. If I use one of my own localized globals will it use that instead?`
`19:56.34`	`esp\|Syn`	`is it just me.. or is raiding in a guild in wow a little anal?`
`20:02.17`	`Cide`	`cogwheel: it will attempt to grab that global, if it can't, it will output the text`
`20:02.25`	`cogwheel`	`neat`
`20:13.35`	`Tain`	`ugg I was trying to test some barchange/button ID stuff on a Warrior and it took me half an hour to remember that Warriors buttons are different than everone else.`
`20:14.26`	`Cairenn`	`MentalPower: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=429065&s=new&tmp=1#new`
`20:14.36`	`Cairenn`	`is it actually breaking Gatherer? I didn't think it was`
`20:15.05`	`Iriel`	`I'm not sure it is either (breaking Gatherer)`
`20:16.36`	`Laric`	`"It's a bug we're aware of, and it will be fixed for 1.13." I guess that means 1.12 is soon? :P`
`20:18.09`	`Shadowed`	`should be this week`
`20:18.17`	`Shadowed`	`s/week/upcoming maintence/`
`20:18.45`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=tardmrr@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net)`
`20:19.28`	`Laric`	`nice`
`20:23.25`	`Cide`	`as far as I know`
`20:24.10`	`Cide`	`gatherer uses the combat log message ("You perform [Herb Gathering/Opening/Whatever] on <Object>.") to log stuff`
`20:24.10`	`Shadowed`	`not that hard to get around though`
`20:24.10`	`Shadowed`	`more annoying`
`20:24.14`	`Cide`	`actually, it is quite hard`
`20:24.30`	`Cide`	`well, to get it foolproof anyway`
`20:25.34`	`Shadowed`	`shouldn't you be able to check loot window?`
`20:25.44`	`Cide`	`mobs drop herbs too`
`20:26.03`	`Kirov`	`But the loot window is different depending on what you're looting`
`20:26.17`	`Cide`	`maybe`
`20:26.27`	`Kirov`	`ie: skull for mob, herb for herb`
`20:26.35`	`Kirov`	`volcano thing for minerals`
`20:26.53`	`Kirov`	`Assuming that texture can be queried`
`20:26.56`	`Cide`	`that might work, dunno`
`20:27.06`	`Cide`	`checking tooltip + start of cast isn't foolproof anyway, I know that for certain`
`20:31.24`	`Laric`	`cide is there any way to know how much traffic ctra is generating?`
`20:31.46`	`Laric`	`beside running a packet analyzer wich is a violation of the tos`
`20:31.57`	`Cide`	`in what, kBs?`
`20:32.00`	`Cide`	`kB/s`
`20:32.13`	`Laric`	`hope fully it is in cps and not in kbs :P`
`20:32.24`	`Laric`	`but yes in outgoing`
`20:32.26`	`Cide`	`well, it's not a lot either way`
`20:32.33`	`Laric`	`good to hear`
`20:33.04`	`Laric`	`what is the server limit... 1000 cps or so before getting thrown out?`
`20:33.05`	`Cide`	`it no longer sends every health & mana update through the channel, if that's what you're worried about`
`20:33.15`	`Kirov`	`The major CTRA spam is buff information`
`20:33.30`	`Cide`	`which only happens when a buff you have is renewed`
`20:33.33`	`Kirov`	`And those are exceptionally short strings`
`20:33.35`	`Cide`	`and even then, I'm removing that`
`20:33.50`	`Laric`	`I am worried that some people in my raid group are using to many syncing addons and that is the cause of their frequest dc's`
`20:34.02`	`Cide`	`do you use SW stats?`
`20:34.06`	`Cide`	`or that threat meter`
`20:34.13`	`Laric`	`yep they are using both`
`20:34.16`	`Kirov`	`bad`
`20:34.29`	`Kirov`	`Those are both spamming basically identical information`
`20:34.34`	`Cide`	`CTRA is a puppy compared to those man-eating tigers`
`20:34.50`	`Laric`	`I have to quote you on that comment lol`
`20:35.14`	`Cide`	`both send a constant stream of data during combat`
`20:35.38`	`Laric`	`I can imagine they are spamming quite a bit`
`20:36.24`	`Cide`	`CTRA sends.. version info & MTs when someone requests it (joins raid, comes back from LD, joins channel)`
`20:36.38`	`Cide`	`it also sends buff info like Kirov said, when buffs are renewed`
`20:36.52`	`Kirov`	`I haven't looked at what exactly SW stats spams, but I know the data threatmeter spams is surprisingly mundane.`
`20:36.53`	`Cide`	`most other things are related to user interaction`
`20:37.03`	`Kirov`	`The problem is how often it spams`
`20:37.16`	`Laric`	`ok`
`20:38.02`	`Kirov`	`Watching the data stream from threat meter I've seen someone spam a single number 10-15 times in a row in the course of a second.`
`20:38.27`	`Laric`	`another q.. is there any command to send the 'maintanks' to the rest of the raid.. if ppl are late in joining the correct ctra channel they sometime dont see the tank windows.. then I have to manually remove the tanks and readd them for those ppl to see them`
`20:38.42`	`chuckg`	`Cide around?`
`20:38.53`	`Laric`	`kirov that is nasty if you have other syncing addons`
`20:38.57`	`chuckg`	`Fix the ctprofiles talent thing w/ Opera please.`
`20:38.58`	`Kirov`	`chuckg - nope, that's why he's been talking a lot in the last few seconds`
`20:38.58`	`chuckg`	`:(`
`20:39.04`	`zenzelezz`	`we just rebroadcast the channel`
`20:39.08`	`Kirkburn1`	`Silly question :P`
`20:39.16`	`Laric`	`sometimes that doesnt help zenzeless`
`20:39.16`	`chuckg`	`Kirkburn: Sarcasm 1, Internet 0`
`20:39.25`	`chuckg`	`KIROV I MEAN!`
`20:39.28`	`Cide`	`chuckg: I would hope that people in here actually know how easy it is to fix bugs given the description 'fix plz'!`
`20:39.34`	`Kirkburn1`	`=)`
`20:39.44`	`Kirov`	`Tab Complete 1, chuckg 0`
`20:40.03`	`chuckg`	`Where does it say fix please?`
`20:40.08`	`Cide`	`'fix the bug'`
`20:40.20`	`chuckg`	`Where?`
`20:40.24`	`Cide`	`in other words, give me 1) an error log or 2) a way to reproduce it here 3) a description of what causes it`
`20:40.29`	`Cide`	`(22:38:58) (chuckg) Fix the ctprofiles talent thing w/ Opera please.`
`20:40.31`	`Cide`	`there`
`20:40.33`	`chuckg`	`1) Opera`
`20:40.33`	`chuckg`	`Go.`
`20:40.39`	`Kirov`	`lol`
`20:40.43`	`chuckg`	`It's that simple.`
`20:40.44`	`Kirov`	`Opera = Bugs!`
`20:40.48`	`Cide`	`how come I don't get it in opera?`
`20:40.51`	`chuckg`	`Opera adheres to the DOM standard.`
`20:40.51`	`Cide`	`go.`
`20:41.04`	`Cide`	`it's not that simple`
`20:41.13`	`chuckg`	`Using Opera 4?`
`20:41.18`	`Cide`	`we have 300k users and I see that bug reported once every 2 months, at most`
`20:41.29`	`chuckg`	`Hasn't worked since release for me.`
`20:41.40`	`chuckg`	`Screenshot inc.`
`20:41.42`	`Cide`	`I'm aware that it doesn't work for some people, but it's hardly "download opera"-simple`
`20:41.47`	`Cide`	`I know what it looks like`
`20:42.32`	`Kirov`	`Laric - btw, an "easy" way to see how much data CTRA is broadcasting is hook CT_RA_SendMessage and watch the output there.`
`20:42.36`	`chuckg`	`Then you know what cuases it, know what it looks like, and it's not fixed?`
`20:42.41`	`chuckg`	`That seems rather ... presumptive.`
`20:43.02`	`Kirov`	`chuckg - actually I think the point is he doesn't know what causes it`
`20:43.03`	`Cide`	`did you even listen to what I said?`
`20:43.09`	`Laric`	`kirov I guess it will be easier in 1.12.. hooking the send addon message and i will get em all :P`
`20:43.16`	`chuckg`	`Read yes.`
`20:43.20`	`chuckg`	`You just said you know what it looks like.`
`20:43.31`	`chuckg`	`Which to me means you've seen it.`
`20:43.35`	`chuckg`	`Which means you've had a way to reproduce it.`
`20:43.40`	`Kirov`	`chuckg - which means someone's sent him screenshots of it`
`20:43.45`	`Cide`	`which means that I've already seen a screenshot of it`
`20:43.57`	`Cide`	`I think you're quite hasty with your assumptions`
`20:44.11`	`Laric`	`chuckg i would guess it is a css problem (presuming here) and those are a huge pita to fix`
`20:44.24`	`cogwheel`	`Knowing what a bug looks like is no different than knowing what a crash looks like`
`20:44.24`	`chuckg`	`...`
`20:44.31`	`cogwheel`	`it has nothing to do with knowing the cause`
`20:44.41`	`chuckg`	`You're talking about javascript and css.`
`20:44.45`	`chuckg`	`Not WoW.`
`20:45.01`	`Cide`	`(CT_RA_AddMessage - not SendMessage)`
`20:45.12`	`Cide`	`damnit`
`20:45.14`	`Cide`	`I fail at my own mod.`
`20:45.18`	`Kirov`	`Cide - lol`
`20:45.21`	`Cide`	`what Kirkburn1 said`
`20:45.25`	`Cide`	`and I also fail at tab completion`
`20:45.28`	`Laric`	`javascript and css is hard as hell to fix sometimes if you didnt know. especially when those 'neat' features ppl are using isnt what css/javascript was designed to do`
`20:45.34`	`chuckg`	`[object HTMLDivEl`
`20:45.44`	`Kirov`	`tab complete 2, chuckg - 0, Cide - 0`
`20:45.57`	`chuckg`	`What did that have to do w/ tab complete?`
`20:46.02`	`Cide`	`I usually type three letters`
`20:46.07`	`Cide`	`if I have to type four, that's insane`
`20:46.21`	`Kirov`	`Kir == Kirov and Kirkburn`
`20:46.42`	`Cide`	`chuckg: perhaps you can tell me 'what' errors except that it does?`
`20:46.55`	`Cide`	`firefox gives beautiful error logs, whereas opera doesn't`
`20:47.06`	`chuckg`	`Instead of icons I get: [[object HTMLDivEl]`
`20:47.08`	`chuckg`	`That's it.`
`20:47.09`	`chuckg`	`The entire listing.`
`20:47.17`	`chuckg`	`No objets.`
`20:47.21`	`chuckg`	`"Objects"`
`20:47.21`	`Cide`	`right.`
`20:47.30`	`Cide`	`now can you tell me why opera doesn't want to display that?`
`20:47.39`	`chuckg`	`Nope. I didn't write your code.`
`20:47.51`	`Cide`	`nor did you write opera. opera sucks at reporting errors`
`20:48.31`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Rallion (n=rallion@cpe-24-195-130-102.nycap.res.rr.com)`
`20:48.38`	`chuckg`	`For someone who has seen this "once every few months" you're awful defensive about it.`
`20:48.51`	`chuckg`	`Sounds like someone's getting whomped by the browser community. :(`
`20:49.55`	`Cide`	`actually, I'd love to fix it`
`20:49.58`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Gnarfoz (i=smallbra@p5482EF2B.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`20:50.27`	`chuckg`	`Ninja some wowhead code.`
`20:50.31`	`Cide`	`but given your ignorance, I find it quite hard to get any kind of useful information out of you`
`20:50.46`	`chuckg`	`For someone who's a hot shot coder, you've given me no way to help you.`
`20:50.48`	`chuckg`	`You asked for the error.`
`20:50.56`	`chuckg`	`I offered a screenshot to which you mocked me for taking.`
`20:50.58`	`Cairenn`	`play nice guys`
`20:51.00`	`chuckg`	`At which point I offered the element.`
`20:51.03`	`chuckg`	`To which you mocked me.`
`20:51.09`	`Cide`	`"chuckg: perhaps you can tell me 'what' errors except that it does?"`
`20:51.28`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`20:51.33`	`chuckg`	`<chuckg> Instead of icons I get: [[object HTMLDivEl], no objects.`
`20:51.43`	`chuckg`	`That's the error. How can I research it further for you?`
`20:52.04`	`End`	`for talents?`
`20:52.05`	`Laric`	`what version of opera are you running?`
`20:52.14`	`chuckg`	`9.01`
`20:52.15`	`Cide`	`I need to know 'why' it does that. for example, it does not support document.getElementById which it uses (just making stuff up)`
`20:52.29`	`chuckg`	`Dude. You're asking me to debug your code.`
`20:52.33`	`chuckg`	`You want me to delve into your CSS.`
`20:52.37`	`chuckg`	`I can't do that for you.`
`20:52.49`	`Cide`	`no, but I was hoping Opera would be nice enough to report that`
`20:52.56`	`Cide`	`like any other good browser does`
`20:53.34`	`Tain`	`I rarely see "good" errors from browsers.`
`20:53.39`	`End`	`IE reports info? how?`
`20:53.44`	`Tain`	`That's just silly.`
`20:53.56`	`chuckg`	`Can't debug something that doesn't even load.`
`20:54.02`	`End`	`I have my own javascript that works fine in Firefox and opera, but fails with IE`
`20:54.09`	`chuckg`	`The objects aren't loading, therefore I cannot get information from them.`
`20:54.24`	`chuckg`	`DOM interpretation, sucks doesn't it End?`
`20:54.37`	`Cide`	`for example:`
`20:55.06`	`End`	`hey, dealing with DOM seems okay in firefox`
`20:55.17`	`End`	`I've seen more debugging tools at least`
`20:55.17`	`Cide`	`Error: document.getElementById("test") has no properties`
`20:55.20`	`Cide`	`Line: 2`
`20:55.31`	`Cide`	`Error: document.getElementById("test") has no properties`
`20:55.31`	`Cide`	`Source File: http://localhost/test.html`
`20:55.31`	`Cide`	`Line: 2`
`20:55.39`	`Cide`	`err, nice spam. you get my point, anyway`
`20:56.04`	`chuckg`	`I got your point 10 minutes ago and again, there are no errors.`
`20:56.14`	`chuckg`	`It just simply doesn't load to a point where it could error out.`
`20:57.00`	`Cide`	`if it displays a <div> as "[[object HTMLDivEl]" it should obviously have an error to report. the fact is that it doesn't report it at all, which keeps me as clueless as I was before`
`20:57.02`	`End`	`actually, that's a good point, I've done javascript that generated similar output in firefox, but firefox didn't have anything in its log, which was annoying`
`20:57.04`	`Cide`	`and that's me mocking opera`
`20:57.32`	`Cide`	`firefox has a dom inspector which helps for that`
`20:57.33`	`Tuplad`	`Let me set some stuff straigt.`
`20:57.35`	`End`	`yeah`
`20:57.36`	`Tuplad`	`straight*`
`20:57.40`	`Tuplad`	`Opera owns all, and we all know it.`
`20:57.44`	`Tuplad`	`No need to argue ;)`
`20:57.47`	`chuckg`	`Sing is sister.`
`20:57.51`	`chuckg`	`s/is/it`
`20:58.03`	`chuckg`	`Oh I'm not cool enough for the bot :(`
`20:58.04`	`Laric`	`it does?`
`20:59.21`	`chuckg`	`Looking at your code, it probably means the elements aren't being populated Cide.`
`20:59.31`	`Cide`	`they are divs`
`20:59.34`	`chuckg`	`Whatever that's worth.`
`20:59.59`	`chuckg`	`DIV is an elment block.`
`21:00.13`	`End`	`hmm`
`21:00.21`	`End`	`I wish opera had a view generated source`
`21:00.30`	`End`	`firefox only has it with an extension`
`21:00.38`	`Cide`	`even a non-populated div shouldn't show up like that though`
`21:00.55`	`End`	`well, it's probably trying to convert the div to a string somehow`
`21:01.08`	`Cide`	`yeah`
`21:01.11`	`Cide`	`no idea why it would, though`
`21:03.58`	`End`	`where is setHtml defined?`
`21:05.10`	`Cide`	`http://ctprofiles.net/tooltip.js`
`21:10.32`	`End`	`oh`
`21:10.39`	`End`	`I found the javascript error console`
`21:10.45`	`End`	`and I -am- getting errors`
`21:11.46`	`End`	`and I gotta say, wow`
`21:11.50`	`End`	`there are a lot of errors`
`21:11.56`	`Cide`	`in opera?`
`21:11.59`	`End`	`yeah`
`21:12.20`	`Cide`	`heh, nice job. I haven't ever found it so I didn't even think there was one`
`21:13.04`	`End`	`it is under Tools => Advanced`
`21:13.22`	`End`	`=> Error Console`
`21:13.35`	`End`	`okay`
`21:13.39`	`End`	`I'm gonna hide CSS errors`
`21:14.20`	`Tain`	`Damnit. I just got an email to participate in an on-site two day beta test and discussion session for Lord of the Rings Online. And I'm supposed to start a new job the same day.`
`21:15.16`	`Kirkburn`	`Call in sick :P`
`21:15.49`	`End`	`Cide: I'm sticking it somewhere you can see`
`21:15.49`	`Rallion`	`tell then you need emergency surgery`
`21:16.19`	`Rallion`	`surgery to the special 'telling us if the game is any good' section of your brain!`
`21:16.30`	`End`	`Cide: http://endif.cjb.net/misc/ctprofiles-operajs-errors.txt`
`21:16.36`	`Cide`	`thanks`
`21:17.06`	`End`	`np`
`21:17.16`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Soltanis (i=as@81.168.16.197)`
`21:18.30`	`End`	`huh, does firefox even give a backtrace?`
`21:19.21`	`Cide`	`heh, nope`
`21:19.39`	`Cide`	`that's the best error report I've seen as far as web development goes actually`
`21:19.41`	`End`	`wow, and here I thought opera was bad for debugging javascript...turns out, their error log is actually better`
`21:24.42`	`Cide`	`so .style for a div isn't defined in opera? nice`
`21:25.00`	`Soltanis`	`so whats the conversation about in here then?`
`21:25.21`	`Kirov`	`atm, why Opera is screwing over a web site`
`21:25.38`	`Kirov`	`Basically, the fat lady sung and the show is over.`
`21:25.49`	`Soltanis`	`really? damn missed it`
`21:26.06`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu)`
`21:26.11`	`JoshBorke`	`hi :)`
`21:26.20`	`Kirov`	`lo
`21:26.25`	`End`	`you might need to do .setAttribute("style",blah) ....I dunno`
`21:26.51`	`End`	`in terms of the DOM-specification, I think that's what you are supposed to do at least`
`21:26.53`	`Cide`	`http://www.quirksmode.org/dom/w3c_css.html opera supports it according to that`
`21:26.57`	`Cide`	`can try that`
`21:27.14`	`End`	`hmm`
`21:28.15`	`Abenadi`	`If I create a plain frame with all the default options and just add some text to it, people can click through the frame right?`
`21:28.24`	`JoshBorke`	`Abenadi: as long as you don't EnableMouse`
`21:28.33`	`Abenadi`	`ok that's what I thought, thanks`
`21:28.52`	`End`	`Cide: I may have figured it out`
`21:29.05`	`End`	`(I'm not sure though)`
`21:31.31`	`End`	`ok`
`21:31.38`	`End`	`in opera javascript:alert(document.getElementById("img74")); gives me null`
`21:31.42`	`End`	`in firefox it gives an img element`
`21:31.48`	`End`	`does that help?`
`21:33.17`	`Cide`	`kinda...`
`21:33.23`	`End`	`(I think there might be more than one problem though)`
`21:34.06`	`Cide`	`it initializes "overlay##" and "##"`
`21:34.31`	`AnduinLothar`	`anyone on the testy server that can help me test something?`
`21:34.58`	`End`	`yeah ## is getting something I know`
`21:35.28`	`End`	`I'm not sure how that stuff is getting setup though`
`21:35.37`	`Cide`	`getting setup?`
`21:36.16`	`Cide`	`element.text is "[Object HTMLDivElement]", but element.text.style is undefined`
`21:36.37`	`End`	`where does the element that goes by "##" come from?`
`21:36.48`	`End`	`and similarly, where does img## come from?`
`21:37.59`	`Cide`	`the initialize function`
`21:38.02`	`Cide`	`up top`
`21:38.14`	`End`	`ah ok`
`21:38.22`	`Cide`	`I might just initialize it in html, but that's annoying`
`21:38.27`	`End`	`ok`
`21:38.32`	`End`	`I know what your problem is now`
`21:39.00`	`End`	`setting innerHTML doesn't populate the dom tree in opera it seems`
`21:39.09`	`End`	`you need to use the DOM methods to populate it`
`21:39.16`	`Cide`	`how annoying`
`21:39.16`	`End`	`which, btw, doesn't work in IE`
`21:39.22`	`Cide`	`yeah`
`21:39.40`	`End`	`(I'm not 100% that's exactly the problem, but I'm pretty sure it's at least damn close)`
`21:40.05`	`End`	`wait a sec`
`21:40.08`	`End`	`I don't get it`
`21:40.19`	`End`	`my explaination doesn't make sense...why does ## exist?`
`21:40.40`	`End`	`does opera just populate the DOM tree incompletely when innerHTML is set?`
`21:41.07`	`End`	`I'm still pretty certain setting innerHTML is the problem, but I'm not sure why it kinda works`
`21:41.19`	`Cide`	`I was thinking it didn't like doing it for <img> objects`
`21:41.26`	`Cide`	`but it works for two divs but not the third`
`21:42.04`	`End`	`well`
`21:42.35`	`End`	`I'm pretty sure using the DOM methods to add works, since I seem to remember I've done that`
`21:43.37`	`Cide`	`document.createElement('div') should work?`
`21:43.53`	`End`	`yeah`
`21:45.48`	`Abenadi`	`is using the <size> tag the right way to set the size of text in a fontstring?`
`21:49.40`	`Abenadi`	`or is that the total size the text should occupy?`
`21:50.00`	`Cide`	`hm, does opera have a dom inspector thingie?`
`21:50.23`	`Cide`	`<Size> is the maximum space the text is allowed to occupy, kinda`
`21:50.50`	`Abenadi`	`yeah I read this... http://www.wowwiki.com/UIOBJECT_FontString`
`21:50.54`	`End`	`Cide: don't think so`
`21:51.01`	`End`	`I'll look though`
`21:52.00`	`End`	`incidently, the DOM inspector for firefox doesn't work for me`
`21:52.01`	`Abenadi`	`so I get the wrapping behavior, I just don't know how to set the size of the text itself or change the font or whatever. The wiki on fontstring basically only addresses the anchoring and wrapping issues`
`21:52.26`	`End`	`(so I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for)`
`21:52.46`	`clad\|afktilsat`	`best wishes all!`
`21:52.57`	`Abenadi`	`bye`
`21:53.09`	`AnduinLothar`	`cya clad`
`21:53.17`	`AnduinLothar`	`Satellite v1.4 out`
`21:54.33`	`Industrial`	`was that`
`21:54.50`	`AnduinLothar`	`www.wowwiki.com/Satellite`
`21:55.11`	`JoshBorke`	`embeddable?`
`21:55.24`	`AnduinLothar`	`yes`
`21:55.28`	`Industrial`	`we've had that since ace 0.something`
`21:55.30`	`Industrial`	`:P`
`21:55.37`	`AnduinLothar`	`no you haven't`
`21:56.00`	`Hexarobi`	`is there a way to get a players name from a lowercase string of their name? so like "joe" would return "Joe"`
`21:56.13`	`Industrial`	`nah im just messin with ya`
`21:56.17`	`Hexarobi`	`do some servers allow caps besides the first letter?`
`21:56.30`	`Kirov`	`Hexarobi - not that I know of.`
`21:56.35`	`Kirov`	`At least for US servers`
`21:56.39`	`Kirov`	`not sure about EU`
`21:56.45`	`AnduinLothar`	`not afaik, but some servers allow special characters so you cant just substr and cap`
`21:56.50`	`Hexarobi`	`ok what about a function that caps the first letter of a string? ;)`
`21:57.04`	`AnduinLothar`	`there's one in Sea`
`21:57.15`	`AnduinLothar`	`also one in TellTrack`
`21:57.15`	`Hexarobi`	`im not importing sea to cap the first letter ;)`
`21:57.19`	`Hexarobi`	`hehe ok`
`21:57.21`	`Hexarobi`	`ill go find it`
`21:57.22`	`Hexarobi`	`thx`
`21:57.23`	`AnduinLothar`	`copy the damn function`
`21:57.59`	`Cide`	`well...`
`21:58.20`	`Kirov`	`Hexarobi - It would make sense that they wouldn't allow anything but the first letter to be capitalized. Basically fixes any issues with people abusing caps mid-name to add capital i to appear as an l`
`21:58.28`	`Kirov`	`(eye and ell)`
`21:59.14`	`Cide`	`now it doesn't error, but nothing shows up!`
`21:59.18`	`End`	`lol`
`21:59.24`	`Kirov`	`Cide - perfect!`
`21:59.25`	`Rallion`	`blankness is perfection`
`22:02.38`	`Rallion`	`does anybody know if there's any kind of overhead involved in using CreateFrame instead of just putting it in the XML? I would guess not, but maybe somebody knows better`
`22:02.55`	`End`	`Cide: you might find this interesting: http://slayeroffice.com/tools/modi/v2.0/modi_help.html`
`22:03.15`	`Thrae`	`Rallion: CreateFrame is generally less overhead if you use it dynamically.`
`22:03.49`	`Thrae`	`Meaning if you don't need to set something, don't set it. XML allows for less flexibility then CreateFrame. Also, you don't need to add the frame to the globalnamespace.`
`22:03.51`	`Abenadi`	`anyone know if OnLeave triggers if I am still within the frame's boundaries but mouseover another frame within it with a higher framestrata?`
`22:03.56`	`Kirov`	`CreateFrame is also useful in that it usually means faster loading times since the XML doesn't have to be loaded / created at start.`
`22:04.24`	`Kirov`	`Abenadi - OnLeave does not fire.`
`22:04.32`	`Abenadi`	`good! thanks : )`
`22:04.44`	`Kirov`	`at least, I don't think so`
`22:04.54`	`Abenadi`	`guess I'll find out tonight`
`22:05.21`	`Rallion`	`well, it's NOT dynamic at all, it was just actually less typing to use CreateFrame`
`22:05.35`	`Rallion`	`because I needed 4 identical buttons :P`
`22:05.45`	`End`	`(I'm not sure it gives enough info though)`
`22:06.22`	`Kirov`	`Rallion - virtual frame!`
`22:06.25`	`Kirov`	`heh`
`22:08.27`	`Rallion`	`Kirov, there is one, and I just CreateFrame from it in a loop rather than having 4 single-line XML elements`
`22:09.31`	`Rallion`	`but I AM going to have the bank bag buttons not create sometimes, so I'll just leave these (the bag buttons) like they are`
`22:12.43`	`Rallion`	`oh. i finally get what the toplevel attribute in the Frame element means.`
`22:13.04`	`Rallion`	`seems mis-named, but I can't come up with a better one.`
`22:13.09`	`Laric`	`can you CreateFrame to create a virtual frame and how do I CreateFrame to inherit from the virtual frame?`
`22:13.44`	`Rallion`	`You need to define the virtual frame in XML, and one of the params to CreateFrame is inheritFrom`
`22:14.47`	`Laric`	`ok so to use virtual frames you still need the xml. Hmm wonder if that will be 'fixed' some time`
`22:14.51`	`cogwheel`	`You can make a function like MyTemplate() that creates the actual frame. and then do newframe = MyTemplate().`
`22:15.11`	`cogwheel`	`There's no reason for inheritance when you can create the frames programmatically in the first place.`
`22:15.31`	`Rallion`	`Sure there is...it's easier to read the XML`
`22:15.44`	`Laric`	`not for me :P`
`22:15.48`	`Abenadi`	`So, my guild just started working on Naxx after bashing our heads against C'thun for weeks. We did Razuvious first and i was assigned to be one of the MC'ing priests. 5/5 shadow focus and +5 to hit gear. I wrote some macros to use the mind controlled units abilities and I head towards gnomer before the raid and find some level 10 humanoids to test them on. My very first cast: "Your Mind Control was resisted by Leper Gnome."`
`22:15.51`	`cogwheel`	`But Laric was asking about creating them in Lua in the first place..`
`22:16.02`	`cogwheel`	`s/them/the templates/`
`22:16.15`	`Rallion`	`though there are things that you can define in code that you CAN'T do in XML...though the only ones I know of of the top of my head are fixed in 1.12`
`22:16.21`	`Abenadi`	`Thankfully we downed him anyway : )`
`22:16.43`	`Rallion`	`hehehe`
`22:16.54`	`Rallion`	`MC's a tricky ability`
`22:19.24`	`Hexarobi`	`anybody know a plugin that has a click in the corner and drag to adjust ui-scale?`
`22:19.41`	`Kirov`	`TinyPad`
`22:19.47`	`Kirov`	`SimpleTranqShot`
`22:19.55`	`Kirov`	`well`
`22:20.01`	`Kirov`	`wait, ui-scale specifically`
`22:20.07`	`cogwheel`	`Titan panel`
`22:20.09`	`Kirov`	`SimpleCompass`
`22:20.18`	`MentalPower`	`Cairenn: it is indeed breaking Gatherer. (sorry about the dealy, I was fixing my car stereo)`
`22:20.27`	`Cairenn`	`np`
`22:20.30`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=tardmrr@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net)`
`22:20.49`	`Hexarobi`	`like my chessboard window, i have a function to adjust scale by passing a 1.0 number, but i want it to change on drag from bottom corner`
`22:20.50`	`Hexarobi`	`like resizing a window`
`22:20.56`	`Kirov`	`MentalPower - I was looking at Itemizer's tooltip parsing. Does Itemizer not save the entire tooltip?`
`22:21.10`	`Hexarobi`	`i know i can use a slider in a config window, but i dont wanna make a config window ;)`
`22:21.18`	`MentalPower`	`it avoids saving the entire thing whenever possible`
`22:21.38`	`Kirov`	`MentalPower - as far as I can tell, it won't save tooltip data for anything that's not armor / weapons`
`22:21.40`	`MentalPower`	`it only saves those lines that could not be parsed`
`22:21.47`	`Kirov`	`ah`
`22:21.54`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn1 (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`22:22.03`	`MentalPower`	`it handles bags too`
`22:22.23`	`Iriel`	`Hexarobi : StatRings has some quite extensive scale-changing dragging code, but I'd recommend you just avoid it 8-)`
`22:22.37`	`Iriel`	`Hexarobi : Easiest way is to track the cursor location in OnUpdate`
`22:23.06`	`Tem`	`zomg, it's an Iriel`
`22:23.11`	`Tem`	`haven't seen you around in forever`
`22:23.17`	`Kirov`	`MentalPower - I saw the bag stuff. Another thing I noticed about the way parsing works that may cause issues with any item that's part of a set or a schematic / plans / etc.`
`22:23.18`	`Hexarobi`	`hmm`
`22:23.24`	`Tem`	`:(`
`22:23.26`	`Tem`	`all fixed now?`
`22:23.32`	`Hexarobi`	`sounds harder than making a slider ;)`
`22:23.56`	`Hexarobi`	`or more realistically... keeping it a slash command`
`22:24.04`	`Kirov`	`MentalPower - The full tooltip doesn't get loaded until you actually do a SetHyperlink, so even if you wait 5 seconds before checking the item, it's likely the full tooltip hasn't been loaded.`
`22:24.12`	`Iriel`	`Tem: Well, I re-built the windows machine the day of the failure, but putting stuff back and recovering as much as possible from the failed drive has taken lots of time, I should be done with that today.`
`22:24.23`	`MentalPower`	`Kirov: I have code to work around that`
`22:24.34`	`MentalPower`	`Kirov: what version of Itemizer are you looking at?`
`22:24.45`	`Kirov`	`MentalPower - which ever is available for download`
`22:25.06`	`Tem`	`Iriel, good:)`
`22:25.22`	`Kirov`	`itemizer-3.7.0.0951.zip`
`22:25.23`	`MentalPower`	`Kirov: lemme pastey some code`
`22:25.23`	`Iriel`	`Thankfully there are some decent NTFS recovery tools out there`
`22:26.29`	`Cide`	`hmm`
`22:26.34`	`MentalPower`	`Kirov: http://wowi.pastey.net/201`
`22:26.43`	`Cide`	`I somehow disabled javascript on my site, and I can't figure out where to enable it again`
`22:26.51`	`Cide`	`as in, in opera`
`22:28.11`	`End`	`hit F12`
`22:28.11`	`Kirov`	`MentalPower - nice, that's a good check`
`22:28.15`	`End`	`should bring up a menu`
`22:28.46`	`AnduinLothar`	`Anyone wanna toy with ExtraChannels on test?`
`22:29.09`	`AnduinLothar`	`adds raid and guild channels`
`22:29.12`	`Kirov`	`MentalPower - one thought I had for LLe was encoding the patch# in to the saved item data.`
`22:29.27`	`Cide`	`Kirov: did that.. everything was still enabled. I restarted opera and it worked though, heh`
`22:29.38`	`Cide`	`s/though/then/`
`22:30.05`	`cogwheel`	`If I posted "_,_,x,y,z=string.find("f(unpack(a))","^(.).(.).-(..)%(") print(x..y..z)" on the WoW forums, would it count as masked profanity?`
`22:30.14`	`Kirov`	`MentalPower - If item exists and patch # is the same as current, don't bother parsing`
`22:30.36`	`Kirov`	`MentalPower - only thing is I'm not sure if the patch # can still be queried.`
`22:30.46`	`MentalPower`	`GetBuildInfo()`
`22:30.53`	`MentalPower`	`you have to parse it tho`
`22:30.53`	`Kirov`	`well, there you go`
`22:31.07`	`MentalPower`	`good idea, thanks :)`
`22:31.08`	`Kirov`	`still, a shit ton less parsing than the tooltip`
`22:31.30`	`Kirov`	`basically an early exit for most items.`
`22:32.08`	`MentalPower`	`its fun having itemizer scan and parse all 7k items in my ItemCache`
`22:33.28`	`Kirov`	`heh`
`22:34.05`	`Kirov`	`I was thinking about doing some work on detecting base items, but I haven't been able to think of a reliable way to do it.`
`22:34.44`	`Kirov`	`Any non-grey / white item with out stats == base item perhaps`
`22:34.51`	`Kirov`	`but that seems dodgey at best`
`22:35.05`	`MentalPower`	`I just add them as they come, then add the randomprops to it as I see them`
`22:35.39`	`Kirov`	`If your scanning your ItemCache you won't see any suffixes though. You also might want to look at the item validator I have in LLe and ItemSync.`
`22:36.07`	`Kirov`	`the suffix check isn't valid anymore since those can't be spoofed anymore`
`22:36.27`	`Kirov`	`But the enchant spoofing is still possible.`
`22:37.01`	`MentalPower`	`yes, i know I won't see suffixes, what I mean is that I scan them as they are (base) and then append the suffix info afterwards as I see it (from other sources)`
`22:37.28`	`Rallion`	`if anybody has something they'd like to see as a 'bank' button, something like the 'backpack' button but for the main bank slots, let me know. I just have a button with coin icons in it.`
`22:37.51`	`Rallion`	`s/coin icons/a coins icon`
`22:38.02`	`MentalPower`	`Should I even bother with enchants, seeing as I just zero them out?`
`22:38.39`	`Kirov`	`MentalPower - I assumed you were going to do something with tthem since you have the data for it.`
`22:38.52`	`Kirov`	`in the itemizerTable.lua`
`22:39.13`	`MentalPower`	`oh, thats only cause the randomProps are a combination of one, two or three enchants`
`22:39.25`	`Kirov`	`ah`
`22:39.58`	`Kirov`	`the randomProps table makes sense to me now`
`22:39.59`	`Kirov`	`heh`
`22:40.23`	`MentalPower`	`:)`
`22:40.34`	`MentalPower`	`I added some more comments to that file`
`22:40.44`	`MentalPower`	`(in my local working copy)`
`22:41.14`	`Kirov`	`What about parsing set info?`
`22:41.32`	`MentalPower`	`that my friend, is a good question`
`22:41.53`	`Kirov`	`I started it in LLe, but I'm unhappy with it currently.`
`22:42.13`	`Kirov`	`I can't think of a good, small way of keeping the information while keeping the data consistant across users.`
`22:43.15`	`Kirov`	`checksum() on the name perhaps.`
`22:43.28`	`MentalPower`	`Currently I just ignore anything past a "\n" since that usually means that the item is a set item`
`22:43.50`	`MentalPower`	`past a "\n" in the tooltip lines`
`22:43.55`	`Kirov`	`right`
`22:44.37`	`MentalPower`	`what do you currently do with set item info?`
`22:45.37`	`Kirov`	`I keep an indexed table of all the seen sets, and add set# to the saved attributes string`
`22:46.05`	`Kirov`	`I don't use it for tooltip building yet`
`22:46.58`	`Kirov`	`Main use for it is sorting by item sets so that all peices of a particular set appear together.`
`22:47.09`	`Kirov`	`Also, when searching, you can choose to only look at set items.`
`22:48.03`	`Kirov`	`I was thinking about keeping the names or (if known) the itemId of all "set" items in each set.`
`22:48.33`	`Kirov`	`mainly for tooltip building.`
`22:51.12`	`MentalPower`	`That sounds like a good reason, I'll brood over the problem when I finish the GUI`
`22:51.36`	`Kirov`	`The main issue is just the amount of text that creates.`
`22:51.43`	`Kirov`	`Since some set names are fairly long.`
`22:52.03`	`Kirov`	`There's also the Warblades of the Hakari issue`
`22:52.20`	`MentalPower`	`what about them?`
`22:52.30`	`Kirov`	`It's a set with two items that have identical names.`
`22:52.37`	`*** part/#wowi-lounge Tuplad (n=tuplad@d54C52170.access.telenet.be)`
`22:52.53`	`Kirov`	`So the item set parser either needs a special case, or needs to know to look for the "next" item that has that name.`
`22:53.09`	`Kirov`	`The set items are always sorted by itemID.`
`22:53.40`	`Kirov`	`Or, you can just always keep that data as text and not bother trying to get the itemID, but, again, more text.`
`22:55.05`	`MentalPower`	`checksum()'ing the name and setting the parser to look for all instances of a name sounds like the way to go`
`22:56.34`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Tuplad (n=tuplad@d54C52170.access.telenet.be)`
`23:03.12`	`Kaso`	`is there a a table of the Class Names anywhere in teh default UI?`
`23:03.28`	`Kirov`	`RAID_CLASS_COLORS`
`23:03.36`	`Kirov`	`hash table of classes`
`23:03.46`	`Kirov`	`if I remember correctly`
`23:03.50`	`Kaso`	`saves me making another table`
`23:07.38`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kameril (n=dssd@69-171-226-188.clspco.adelphia.net)`
`23:08.59`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (i=PROFI@user-0cev737.cable.mindspring.com)`
`23:13.02`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge kergoth (n=kergoth@neutrino.joshua-colp.com)`
`23:13.40`	`Thrae`	`What's a good BG looting addon? I need to be able to loot in BGs at lightning-fast speeds.`
`23:15.46`	`Kirov`	`shift + click?`
`23:16.05`	`Thrae`	`Yes, I'm stupid.`
`23:18.24`	`JoshBorke`	`~emulate Thrae`
`23:18.42`	`JoshBorke`	`purl, Thrae is Yes, I'm stupid.`
`23:18.44`	`purl`	`JoshBorke: okay`
`23:18.49`	`JoshBorke`	`~emulate Thrae`
`23:18.58`	`JoshBorke`	`~Thrae`
`23:18.59`	`purl`	`thrae is probably Yes, I'm stupid.`
`23:19.49`	`JoshBorke`	`~help`
`23:21.04`	`JoshBorke`	`~emulate`
`23:21.21`	`JoshBorke`	`~botslap`
`23:21.22`	`purl`	`Hey what was that for, joshborke?`
`23:21.37`	`Thrae`	`purl, JoshBorke is Yes, I'm even more stupid then Thrae.`
`23:21.38`	`purl`	`okay, Thrae`
`23:21.43`	`Kirov`	`~botsnack`
`23:21.43`	`purl`	`aw, gee, Kirov`
`23:21.50`	`Thrae`	`~emulate JoshBorke`
`23:22.00`	`Thrae`	`~JoshBorke`
`23:22.02`	`purl`	`i guess joshborke is Yes, I'm even more stupid then Thrae.`
`23:22.04`	`Kirov`	`lol`
`23:23.01`	`Rallion`	`The maturity level in here is just staggering`
`23:23.10`	`JoshBorke`	`no purl, JoshBorke is just some guy.`
`23:23.21`	`Thrae`	`He did it first =/`
`23:23.27`	`Rallion`	`lol`
`23:23.34`	`JoshBorke`	`(19:16:05) Thrae: Yes, I'm stupid.`
`23:23.35`	`MentalPower`	`lol`
`23:34.17`	`Flyoc`	`is there a / command to "action" the selected NPC ?`
`23:34.26`	`Flyoc`	`like talk or trade ?`
`23:50.44`	`*** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=George@84-45-141-44.no-dns-yet.enta.net)`
`23:50.56`	`JoshBorke`	`Iriel: erm, DevTools_Dump doesn't respect table.setn does it? it does it by 'pairs'?`
`23:51.01`	`JoshBorke`	`or ipairs even?`

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