| 00:00.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge IleBur (i=ilebur@shell.node.fi) |
| 00:02.26 | Shirik | wow what a hack :/ |
| 00:02.48 | Shirik | I just bothered to find out how blizzard's action buttons update their status based on range |
| 00:02.58 | Legorol | OnUpdate? :D |
| 00:03.09 | Shirik | yes, but here's teh ugly part |
| 00:03.25 | Shirik | In OnUpdate, it checks range. If it's out of range, it calls button:SetText("●"); |
| 00:03.34 | Shirik | later, it uses GetText() to compare against that |
| 00:03.41 | Legorol | :O |
| 00:04.01 | Legorol | that is ugly |
| 00:04.05 | Shirik | sorry, OnUpdate uses GetText() |
| 00:04.18 | Shirik | ActionButton_UpdateHotkeys() sets that text value if out of range |
| 00:04.21 | JoshBorke | why is my sort function broken... |
| 00:04.31 | Shirik | that's what I said >< |
| 00:05.02 | Shirik | http://wdn.wowinterface.com/code/live/FrameXML/ActionButton.lua see RANGE_INDICATOR |
| 00:05.54 | Legorol | btw, i am so excited, my guild finally killed Moroes tonight, and that's a very big thing for us! |
| 00:06.01 | Shirik | yey, grats |
| 00:06.07 | Legorol | here is why it's a big thing for us: |
| 00:06.07 | Shirik | we just did it ourselves a few days ago |
| 00:06.51 | Legorol | for starters, we are a fairly casual guild |
| 00:06.52 | JoshBorke | bah, i hate string comparisons |
| 00:06.54 | JoshBorke | Legorol: grats! |
| 00:07.07 | Legorol | i don't mean in the sense of "casual" as used on the forums, some of our members play a lot |
| 00:07.13 | Shirik | JoshBorke: Don't we all :P |
| 00:07.23 | Legorol | by casual i mean friendly, relaxed, not too strict on those who want to come to raid etc. |
| 00:07.29 | Tain | Sorry I don't believe in casual sex. |
| 00:07.29 | Shirik | much like my guild :) |
| 00:07.32 | Legorol | we also have friends, family, young, old, etc. |
| 00:07.34 | JoshBorke | Legorol: that's how i define casual too |
| 00:07.38 | Legorol | yah |
| 00:07.39 | zenzelezz | which guild are you in again Lego, S&H? |
| 00:07.54 | Legorol | i like to define "casual" and "hardcore" according to attitude, not according to plyatime |
| 00:07.58 | Legorol | no, The Scorned |
| 00:08.04 | JoshBorke | Legorol: agreed |
| 00:08.04 | Legorol | anyway, here is the real punch: |
| 00:08.06 | zenzelezz | oh, right o_O |
| 00:08.17 | Legorol | not all of our members are good players, or well geared or whatever |
| 00:08.24 | Legorol | we are happy if we can get 10 Karazhan attuned members on a Friday night |
| 00:08.44 | Legorol | and this time we decided that we want to discover it for ourselves, so we did not read any tactics, or spoilers |
| 00:08.50 | Legorol | yes we wiped a lot until we learnt what does what |
| 00:09.04 | Legorol | moreover, we don't have the luxury of picking an "ideal" group setup, which makes things harder |
| 00:09.20 | Legorol | we tookt he reverse approach: "right, these are the people we have to work with, how are we going to make it work?" |
| 00:09.25 | zenzelezz | the thing that annoys me about Moroes is the respawn timer on the ghosts |
| 00:09.32 | Legorol | *shrug* |
| 00:09.35 | JoshBorke | CRAP! |
| 00:09.36 | Legorol | we just had to clear it a lot :D |
| 00:09.38 | JoshBorke | bah, stupid code |
| 00:10.05 | JoshBorke | friggin kaelten |
| 00:10.06 | Shirik | purl, comfort JoshBorke |
| 00:10.11 | purl | There, there, JoshBorke. It's OK. I'm here for you. |
| 00:10.11 | Legorol | the only external aid we used was mods to time the Garrotes and announce it to the raid |
| 00:10.44 | Legorol | it just made me so so so happy that we managed to do it on our own strengths and terms |
| 00:10.44 | JoshBorke | Legorol: what gruop setup? |
| 00:11.06 | Legorol | today we had 3 warriors, warlock, 2 druids, priest, rogue, shaman, hunter |
| 00:11.23 | JoshBorke | nicely done :-) |
| 00:11.36 | Shirik | would have done better if you had 10 hunters imo |
| 00:11.39 | Legorol | i can tell you what tactic we did, it was pretty fun :D |
| 00:11.50 | Legorol | anyway, it was a great accomplishment for us |
| 00:11.52 | JoshBorke | ok, now, question for you guys |
| 00:11.57 | Shirik | answer for you. |
| 00:11.58 | Legorol | we have always been just following others' tactics |
| 00:12.00 | JoshBorke | i'm try to sort a list of items |
| 00:12.11 | Shirik | and failing miserably |
| 00:12.18 | Shirik | =P |
| 00:12.20 | JoshBorke | indeed |
| 00:12.26 | Shirik | What ya need? |
| 00:12.37 | Legorol | the other great thing about it is that, being fairly casual, we have never been good at fights which are tactically challenging, and aren't just tank&spank dependent essentially on gear |
| 00:13.01 | JoshBorke | well, i want a good way to sort based on more than one field |
| 00:13.03 | Legorol | ok sorry for the offtopic |
| 00:13.08 | Shirik | ok |
| 00:13.42 | Shirik | so you're using table.sort right? |
| 00:13.44 | JoshBorke | here's what i've got: http://ace.pastey.net/9807 |
| 00:13.49 | Legorol | JoshBorke: you'd have to use your own sorting algorithm |
| 00:13.51 | JoshBorke | Legorol: congrats :-) |
| 00:13.57 | JoshBorke | (again) |
| 00:14.05 | Legorol | hehe thanks |
| 00:14.08 | JoshBorke | i know how great it is to take down a boss for the first time, especially if you did it without any strats |
| 00:14.32 | Legorol | especially for us, because we were never good on tactical fights |
| 00:14.41 | JoshBorke | yea, and moroes is definitely a tactical fight |
| 00:14.44 | JoshBorke | especially with your group |
| 00:15.05 | batrick | Legorol, ya, It's a chat interpretter i made |
| 00:15.23 | Legorol | this was one of the many fun things: we had one of the warriors tank some adds at the start in dps gear, just so that when he is done tanking, he isn't wasted |
| 00:15.24 | bleeter | Legorol: grats mate :) |
| 00:15.27 | Shirik | JoshBorke: What's sort1, sort2, sort3? |
| 00:15.27 | Legorol | and can go hit Moroes |
| 00:15.38 | batrick | I wouldn't want to isolate it from the global environment completely |
| 00:15.49 | Legorol | ok |
| 00:15.54 | JoshBorke | Shirik: different fields returned by GetItemInfo, one sec |
| 00:16.05 | Shirik | oh I see |
| 00:16.07 | Shirik | got it |
| 00:16.14 | Shirik | except |
| 00:16.42 | Shirik | I think you're forgetting select() returns all parameters after that value, not just that value? |
| 00:17.06 | Legorol | Shirik is right |
| 00:17.25 | Legorol | and i was wrong about having to write your own sort algorithm, that's a very neat way of doing multi-column sorting! |
| 00:17.59 | Legorol | however, there are some minor flaws with it |
| 00:18.01 | JoshBorke | hrm, so how do i only get one of them? |
| 00:18.09 | Legorol | select(x, (...)) |
| 00:18.14 | Legorol | put brackets around the ... |
| 00:18.20 | Legorol | uh i mean |
| 00:18.26 | Legorol | (select(x,...)) |
| 00:18.30 | Legorol | that's what you do :D |
| 00:18.35 | *** part/#wowi-lounge kneeki|atwork (n=kneeki|a@66-193-135-142.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 00:18.35 | JoshBorke | huh, alright |
| 00:18.37 | Legorol | you put the brackets around select |
| 00:18.54 | JoshBorke | where's that little bit of tidbit from? |
| 00:19.22 | JoshBorke | the key part was taken from KC_Items 1, kaelten's idea. i thought it was very clever |
| 00:19.57 | Shirik | why not this: |
| 00:20.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Funkeh` (n=funkydud@host81-129-145-1.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 00:20.03 | Shirik | http://ace.pastey.net/9809 |
| 00:20.03 | Legorol | actually, you don't need the brackets |
| 00:20.19 | JoshBorke | Shirik: i'll want to change the contents of sortTbl |
| 00:20.23 | Shirik | ah |
| 00:20.54 | Legorol | JoshBorke, there is an issue though with your method |
| 00:20.57 | Legorol | consider this example: |
| 00:21.07 | JoshBorke | Legorol: with and without the brackets it functions the same |
| 00:21.07 | Legorol | yeah |
| 00:21.07 | Legorol | that was my bad |
| 00:21.13 | Shirik | oh I think I know what you're thinking Legorol |
| 00:21.25 | Legorol | anyway imagine the following three lines you are trying to sort: |
| 00:21.39 | Legorol | a,f,z |
| 00:21.40 | Shirik | 1.1 = Abc, 1.2 = Xyz, 2.1 = Ab, 2.2 = Xyz |
| 00:21.48 | Legorol | aa,c,x |
| 00:21.57 | Legorol | yeah as Shirik says |
| 00:22.08 | Legorol | unequal stringlengths |
| 00:22.19 | Legorol | basically pad every entry with spaces to something long |
| 00:22.44 | JoshBorke | yea, that's my problem, string length when comparing numbers |
| 00:23.36 | pastamancer | string.match("(%d+\.?%d+?)") ? |
| 00:23.39 | Shirik | btw |
| 00:23.53 | JoshBorke | pasta speaks |
| 00:23.55 | JoshBorke | it's a miracle |
| 00:24.12 | pastamancer | and then and then tonumber it |
| 00:24.56 | pastamancer | I'm a busy priest |
| 00:25.18 | Legorol | sorry i am lost here, what's that string.match for? |
| 00:25.19 | pastamancer | finally got exalted lower city |
| 00:25.20 | JoshBorke | ok, so you guys are saying to pull out anything that is a number and pad those? |
| 00:25.25 | Legorol | how does it help JoshBorke |
| 00:25.40 | pastamancer | you're trying to sort strings that start with a number, right? |
| 00:25.59 | JoshBorke | i'm trying to sort strings with numbers embedded, with numbers at the start being the only issue |
| 00:26.06 | Shirik | JoshBorke: Try this |
| 00:26.12 | Shirik | http://ace.pastey.net/9810 |
| 00:26.28 | pastamancer | and your'e trying to sort by the numer that's contained in the string? |
| 00:26.31 | JoshBorke | too many tables |
| 00:26.34 | Shirik | .. |
| 00:26.39 | JoshBorke | pastamancer: possibly |
| 00:26.49 | pastamancer | possibly? I'll have to scroll up then |
| 00:27.00 | JoshBorke | pastamancer: the sort order is generated by the user |
| 00:27.53 | JoshBorke | Shirik: it's 2 tables per call to _mySort |
| 00:27.59 | Shirik | true |
| 00:28.15 | Shirik | is this going to be used in a place where it will be called very frequently? |
| 00:28.27 | JoshBorke | not really, but waste not want not |
| 00:28.33 | pastamancer | ah, I see |
| 00:28.42 | Shirik | ok, alternatively you could write this |
| 00:28.45 | Shirik | instead of creating the table every time |
| 00:28.50 | Shirik | create it once, and re-fill the indexes |
| 00:28.54 | Shirik | but the line would be a bit long |
| 00:29.08 | JoshBorke | Legorol: if i pad the numbers with the same prefix, ie 0, then 0012 < 0102 |
| 00:29.46 | Legorol | without you giving me an example of what you want the sorted result to look like, i'm not sure what you mean |
| 00:29.58 | Legorol | if you have a string starting with 12 and 102, which one you want first? |
| 00:30.03 | JoshBorke | 12 |
| 00:30.23 | Legorol | ah right |
| 00:30.30 | Shirik | http://ace.pastey.net/9811 |
| 00:30.31 | Shirik | like that |
| 00:30.34 | Shirik | no more creating tables |
| 00:30.37 | Shirik | you'd have to finish the line of course |
| 00:30.44 | Shirik | you |
| 00:30.47 | Shirik | actually don't need select anymore either |
| 00:30.52 | Shirik | I don't know why I still have that in there |
| 00:31.40 | Legorol | padding by 0s seems good |
| 00:32.04 | JoshBorke | Shirik: it seems kludgy and not elegant, but it might be the best design overall |
| 00:32.08 | pastamancer | 9811 looks good |
| 00:32.13 | JoshBorke | since it wouldn't generate strings |
| 00:32.21 | Shirik | I didn't like it either, but it's the most logical choice to me |
| 00:32.48 | JoshBorke | *cry* my way was so elegant too |
| 00:32.52 | Shirik | heh |
| 00:33.19 | Legorol | uhm, why is it not just i1 = {GetItemInfo(item1)} |
| 00:33.25 | Shirik | because |
| 00:33.28 | JoshBorke | Legorol: table creation |
| 00:33.29 | Shirik | he didn't want to recreate tables |
| 00:33.33 | Shirik | That's what I suggested first :P |
| 00:33.34 | Legorol | meh |
| 00:33.45 | Legorol | we now have an intelligent GC! |
| 00:34.12 | JoshBorke | waste not want not :-P |
| 00:34.12 | Legorol | make tables |
| 00:34.12 | Shirik | GC ~= you can waste memory |
| 00:34.13 | pastamancer | make tables, not war! |
| 00:34.20 | JoshBorke | pastamancer: i'll make you tables! *shakes fist* |
| 00:34.23 | cladhaire | is it user initiated?> |
| 00:34.36 | JoshBorke | cladhaire: yes |
| 00:34.41 | cladhaire | then don't consider memory |
| 00:34.47 | cladhaire | consider the ease of implementation |
| 00:34.54 | Shirik | o.o |
| 00:34.57 | JoshBorke | the last way isn't any harder |
| 00:34.58 | Shirik | cladhaire said this? |
| 00:35.00 | cladhaire | this is why we have GC |
| 00:35.13 | cladhaire | if you have a nice way to do it, then feel free |
| 00:35.20 | cladhaire | but don't hide from table creations when there's no reason to |
| 00:35.26 | cladhaire | and if the user initiates it, there's almost no reason to |
| 00:35.47 | JoshBorke | creating possibly 5000 tables seems like a reason not to |
| 00:36.15 | cladhaire | then i'd quest _what_ you're doing :P |
| 00:36.17 | cladhaire | i'm just talking in general |
| 00:36.27 | pastamancer | cladhaire: in this case, it's the comparator being passed to sort |
| 00:36.40 | Shirik | so if the table is very large |
| 00:36.43 | Shirik | you could make a billion tables |
| 00:36.49 | cladhaire | *nod* i'm not talking about this in particular =) |
| 00:37.04 | cladhaire | and I said if you had somethign nice, then to use it =) |
| 00:37.17 | Legorol | uh, how about abusing ...? |
| 00:37.45 | pastamancer | cladhaire: agreed |
| 00:38.23 | Legorol | damn, why doesn't Lua have list concatenation :/ |
| 00:38.29 | Legorol | my idea doesn't work :( |
| 00:38.46 | JoshBorke | do strings ever leave memory? |
| 00:38.54 | Legorol | yes |
| 00:39.01 | Legorol | they get garbage collected just like everything else |
| 00:39.06 | JoshBorke | cool |
| 00:39.11 | pastamancer | Legorol: I'd kill for native linked-lists in lua |
| 00:39.24 | cladhaire | but only one instance of each string exists. |
| 00:39.57 | Legorol | pastamancer: i wasn't talking about linked-lists, but list concatenation |
| 00:40.08 | cladhaire | you can implement it in a line of lua =) |
| 00:40.09 | pastamancer | Legorol: well, we don't even have lists, just hash-maps |
| 00:40.13 | cladhaire | yeah |
| 00:40.15 | cladhaire | what do you mean by list |
| 00:40.17 | Legorol | e.g. if two functions a() and b() return lists, a() + b() is an even bigger list |
| 00:40.18 | cladhaire | immutable tuples? |
| 00:40.24 | Shirik | Legorol: Not many languages natively support joining tables |
| 00:40.25 | cladhaire | well we don't have proper typles |
| 00:40.36 | cladhaire | just the fake tuples in ... |
| 00:40.36 | Legorol | uh, no, i mean "lists" as in the language construct |
| 00:40.42 | Legorol | as per the manual |
| 00:41.03 | cladhaire | I've never seen lua refer to anythign as a list, as a language construct. |
| 00:41.10 | Legorol | O.O |
| 00:41.28 | Shirik | looking for a lua "list" only takes me to the mailing list :/ |
| 00:41.33 | cladhaire | and I read the HoPL paper today. |
| 00:41.39 | Legorol | i mean things like a, b = 2, 3 |
| 00:41.44 | JoshBorke | multiple return values |
| 00:41.45 | Legorol | assigning a list of values to a list of variables |
| 00:41.48 | cladhaire | those are immutable tuples. |
| 00:41.50 | cladhaire | essentially |
| 00:41.53 | cladhaire | and they only exist in ... |
| 00:41.58 | Legorol | i have no idea what a tuple is |
| 00:42.00 | Legorol | :D |
| 00:42.00 | JoshBorke | everytime i read tuples i think it has to do with a 3 |
| 00:42.01 | cladhaire | and situations similar to it |
| 00:42.11 | cladhaire | Legorol: A tuple is the language construct |
| 00:42.15 | Shirik | can't you do |
| 00:42.17 | cladhaire | used in scheme, lisp, python, etc. |
| 00:42.29 | Shirik | like, this doesn't make any sense, but |
| 00:42.35 | Shirik | local a = ... , ... |
| 00:42.39 | cladhaire | no |
| 00:42.40 | Shirik | that would join them.. |
| 00:42.44 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 00:42.46 | cladhaire | we don't have tuples |
| 00:42.49 | cladhaire | and that's what you're asking for |
| 00:43.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Funkeh`` (n=funkydud@host81-157-154-24.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) |
| 00:44.07 | Legorol | hehe well i still dont' know what a tuple is, but if you say that's what i want, then that's what i want |
| 00:44.28 | cladhaire | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuple |
| 00:44.37 | Legorol | the surprising thing is this: |
| 00:44.43 | Legorol | consider {a(), b()} |
| 00:44.45 | Shirik | cladhaire's right |
| 00:44.53 | Legorol | this will be a table with the first return value of a(), and all of b() |
| 00:44.53 | Shirik | when I try to do something like local a = ...,... it gets pissed :( |
| 00:44.58 | Shirik | not an error, but very wrong |
| 00:45.05 | cladhaire | you thought I was lying? |
| 00:45.10 | Shirik | it doesn't make sense to me :P |
| 00:45.11 | Garoun | that uncomment you mentioned worked like a charm clad :) |
| 00:45.11 | cladhaire | Legorol: correct |
| 00:45.12 | Shirik | it's illogical |
| 00:45.12 | Legorol | but there shouldn't be anything inherently difficult about *not* discarding the other return values of a() from the stack |
| 00:45.20 | Garoun | about to give it a test in 20min or so |
| 00:45.32 | cladhaire | Legorol: that wouldn't be a tuple, that would be a list, and what you're talking about is a limitation of table constructors. |
| 00:45.43 | Legorol | no, not just table constructor |
| 00:45.49 | Legorol | yes, i am talking about lists |
| 00:45.56 | cladhaire | Lua doesn't have a list type. |
| 00:45.57 | cladhaire | hence the issue. |
| 00:46.02 | Legorol | a, b, c, d = a(), b() |
| 00:46.08 | cladhaire | that's syntactic sugra |
| 00:46.09 | cladhaire | sugar |
| 00:46.12 | Legorol | bah, wrong example |
| 00:46.16 | cladhaire | not a list |
| 00:46.18 | Legorol | a, b, c, d = x(), y() |
| 00:46.25 | Legorol | well that's what i use the word "list" for |
| 00:46.28 | cladhaire | same deal =) |
| 00:46.30 | Shirik | a = return value 1 from x |
| 00:46.32 | Legorol | comma separated values or whatever you like |
| 00:46.35 | Shirik | b,c,d = other values from y |
| 00:46.38 | Legorol | Shirik: i know |
| 00:46.41 | Shirik | values from y * |
| 00:46.45 | cladhaire | your'e asking for a type that lua doesn't have =) |
| 00:46.49 | cladhaire | its been proposed, but doesn't existy |
| 00:46.56 | Legorol | i am not sure i am |
| 00:47.26 | Legorol | i am asking for the ability to have a syntax sugar |
| 00:47.26 | cladhaire | hold please =) |
| 00:47.29 | Shirik | cladhaire: Only reason I commented was because I rarely use them, so things like this suprise me :P |
| 00:47.29 | Legorol | ok |
| 00:47.39 | JoshBorke | cladhaire: so currently there is no way to join 2 tuples? |
| 00:47.44 | Shirik | apparently not |
| 00:47.53 | Shirik | aside from doing something really ugly |
| 00:48.14 | Shirik | I could make a recursive function to do it |
| 00:48.39 | cladhaire | JoshBorke: tuples don't exist in lua, except in special cases, so no. |
| 00:49.04 | JoshBorke | s/tuples/...s/ |
| 00:49.09 | cladhaire | no |
| 00:49.11 | Legorol | cladhaire: ok i am considering the situations where comma is used |
| 00:49.19 | JoshBorke | how would you do it using a recursive function shrik? |
| 00:49.19 | cladhaire | Legorol: is looking for a way to NOT have the extra values of the first multiple return, when there's another value after the comma |
| 00:49.22 | Shirik | show you in a sec |
| 00:49.24 | cladhaire | and the language doesnt suport that. |
| 00:49.36 | Shirik | but it involves making tables from them |
| 00:49.38 | cladhaire | Shirik: you can't do it without creatign a table |
| 00:49.39 | cladhaire | =) |
| 00:49.42 | Shirik | beat ya :P |
| 00:49.58 | JoshBorke | oh, i see |
| 00:50.02 | Legorol | cladhaire: no the opposite |
| 00:50.10 | Legorol | i am looking for a way to retain all return values |
| 00:50.20 | cladhaire | there were words misisng |
| 00:50.23 | cladhaire | namely "thrown out" |
| 00:50.28 | cladhaire | i knew what you mean |
| 00:51.04 | cladhaire | i would prefer narrowing a multiple return using () instead of having the , throw out the values, but I'm not sure we'll get that |
| 00:51.09 | cladhaire | and if we do, its not likely we'll see it in wow =) |
| 00:51.11 | Legorol | and the reason why i'm surprised that it doesn't exist is that in the case of function return values, they are already on the stack |
| 00:51.27 | Legorol | cladhaire: yeah that'd be great |
| 00:51.51 | cladhaire | i'm pushing for tuples, with hints, where I can =) |
| 00:55.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge PProvost (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 01:01.19 | Shirik | so that's why they call them "immutable tuples" huh |
| 01:01.23 | Shirik | cause you can't play with them |
| 01:01.58 | Legorol | All right, I don't get it. |
| 01:02.05 | Legorol | What's the difference between a tuple and an array? |
| 01:02.11 | Legorol | They seem to me to be the same thing :/ |
| 01:02.20 | cladhaire | They're not in this case |
| 01:02.21 | Legorol | i mean a 3-tuple is just an array with 3 elemnts |
| 01:02.26 | cladhaire | not true |
| 01:02.31 | Legorol | I would really like to understand the distinction |
| 01:02.32 | cladhaire | an array has to be indexed |
| 01:02.44 | Legorol | i appreciate that there must be some difference, but i don't get it |
| 01:02.45 | cladhaire | and you have them, as tables indexed by the natural numbers |
| 01:02.50 | cladhaire | you don't index a list |
| 01:02.50 | Legorol | well isn't a tuple an ordered sequence? |
| 01:02.58 | cladhaire | yes, but you don't index the tuple |
| 01:03.04 | cladhaire | you can't get the third value in the tuple |
| 01:03.06 | Legorol | umm |
| 01:03.08 | cladhaire | except through a special function |
| 01:03.11 | cladhaire | you index arrays |
| 01:03.33 | cladhaire | consider scheme, with (car (cdr (list 3 4 5))) |
| 01:03.41 | cladhaire | that returns 4 |
| 01:03.44 | Legorol | i just looked at the example on the wiki page, and it describes mechanisms for accessing and setting elements of a tuple |
| 01:03.45 | JoshBorke | oh god! not scheme! |
| 01:03.51 | cladhaire | alternatively (cadr (list 3 4 5)) |
| 01:04.23 | cladhaire | correct, there are mechanisms, through special functions |
| 01:04.27 | cladhaire | arrays can be indexed directly |
| 01:04.39 | cladhaire | traditionally |
| 01:04.44 | Legorol | what exactly is the difference between array element acces and tuple elemnt access |
| 01:04.50 | Legorol | from an abstract pov |
| 01:04.50 | sioraiocht | Legorol: tuples are usually immutable |
| 01:05.00 | cladhaire | there's an ambiguity with array elements.. when you do x = somearray, what does that mean? |
| 01:05.02 | Legorol | noone mentioned that to me |
| 01:05.05 | JoshBorke | oh god, i'm starting to understand |
| 01:05.15 | cladhaire | Legorol: i said that earlier, that you were asking for immutable tuples =) |
| 01:05.16 | sioraiocht | Legorol: you can't access a specific member of a tuple without pattern matching, usually |
| 01:05.29 | Legorol | cladhaire: i mean noone mentioned that tuples are usually immutable |
| 01:05.35 | Shirik | o.o |
| 01:05.42 | cladhaire | thats why i made the distinction specifically =) |
| 01:05.49 | Legorol | yeah, that's why i complained, you were the first to mention it ;_0 |
| 01:05.50 | sioraiocht | Legorol: that's the point of tuples over lists =p |
| 01:05.59 | Legorol | wait wait |
| 01:06.02 | Shirik | I wrote a function that can get an element out of a tuple without making a table |
| 01:06.06 | Legorol | that'd be the point of *immutable* tuples |
| 01:06.09 | Shirik | it's pointless, but I did it :P |
| 01:06.09 | cladhaire | correct |
| 01:06.14 | sioraiocht | Legorol: sorry, tuples over arrays |
| 01:06.17 | cladhaire | and a mutable tuple would be.. an array essentially |
| 01:06.18 | Legorol | but what's the difference between a mutable tuple, a list, and an array |
| 01:06.20 | Legorol | i still don't get it |
| 01:06.32 | Legorol | cladhaire: which is what i said |
| 01:06.33 | JoshBorke | Shirik: return select(element, ...)? :_P |
| 01:06.40 | Legorol | that i don't get the difference between a tuple and an array |
| 01:06.44 | Shirik | can't do that, select returns all values after element remember |
| 01:06.44 | sioraiocht | Legorol: usually an array is a fixed memory structure that is indexed |
| 01:06.46 | Shirik | but close |
| 01:06.55 | cladhaire | i was thinking in terms of immutable tuples, I apoligize |
| 01:06.58 | Shirik | return select(i, ...), select(i) |
| 01:06.58 | cladhaire | I thought I had made that clear |
| 01:07.04 | Shirik | where select(i) returns nothing |
| 01:07.09 | Shirik | works perfectly ^^ |
| 01:07.14 | sioraiocht | Legorol: a LIST is often a dynamically sizable with no random access |
| 01:07.15 | Legorol | cladhaire: you might have, in which case i misunderstood, which would be my fault |
| 01:07.26 | cladhaire | fair enough as long as we reach an appropriate end =) |
| 01:07.40 | Legorol | ok, so mutable tuple is same as array |
| 01:07.45 | Legorol | what's the use of immutable tuples then? |
| 01:07.52 | JoshBorke | you can't change them |
| 01:08.01 | Legorol | why is that good? |
| 01:08.07 | cladhaire | you can pass them |
| 01:08.10 | cladhaire | they're first-class objects |
| 01:08.12 | cladhaire | in scheme, for example. |
| 01:08.13 | Legorol | i mean, let's not consider practicalities such as efficiency, or speed, or memory or whatnot |
| 01:08.18 | Legorol | on an abstract concept level |
| 01:08.31 | Shirik | that's like saying |
| 01:08.40 | Shirik | what's the point of using a boolean when you can use a 64-bit integer |
| 01:08.46 | Shirik | not considering effeciency, speed, memory |
| 01:09.00 | sioraiocht | Legorol: the point of tuples is that they are more efficient for passing multiple values, esp as return types |
| 01:09.04 | cladhaire | i woudln't go that far |
| 01:09.57 | sioraiocht | Legorol: abstractly, you can enforce types better because a function has to expect an n-tuple for a specific n |
| 01:10.02 | sioraiocht | you can't pass a function a 4-tuple where it wants a 3 |
| 01:10.43 | Shirik | umm |
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| 01:11.09 | Shirik | function a(b,c,d) return b,c,d; end; print(a(1,2,3,4)); |
| 01:11.11 | Shirik | worked fine :/ |
| 01:11.16 | Legorol | in Lua, yes |
| 01:11.18 | Shirik | or maybe I misunderstood you |
| 01:11.20 | Legorol | but we are not talking lua |
| 01:11.23 | Legorol | we are talking concepts |
| 01:11.24 | Shirik | mm ok |
| 01:11.24 | Legorol | and what a tuple is |
| 01:11.54 | Legorol | mmmm so is a tuple basically an object, with no associated methods, only fields? |
| 01:12.10 | cladhaire | have to understand, that both tables and arrays are _implementations of tuples_ |
| 01:12.11 | cladhaire | literally |
| 01:12.19 | Legorol | ok |
| 01:12.21 | cladhaire | arrays are just straight mutable tuples |
| 01:12.26 | Legorol | that makes sense |
| 01:12.32 | cladhaire | and tables with keys are tagged tuples. |
| 01:12.36 | Legorol | thanks, that's meaningful |
| 01:12.41 | cladhaire | What you want is an immutable tuple, as a fundamental type. |
| 01:12.45 | cladhaire | in which case you can do many fun things |
| 01:12.47 | cladhaire | =) |
| 01:12.47 | Legorol | do i? |
| 01:12.57 | cladhaire | yes, tuple .. tuple would make a new tuple |
| 01:13.00 | cladhaire | same as strings |
| 01:13.06 | Legorol | what's the advantage of having something that you can't change, when you already have something thaty ou can change |
| 01:13.15 | cladhaire | you can't change it, but you can operate on it |
| 01:13.20 | cladhaire | there's a distinction |
| 01:13.26 | Legorol | ah ok |
| 01:13.31 | cladhaire | you want tuple_constructor(tuple, tuple) |
| 01:13.39 | Legorol | so if they gave us, say, table concatenation or array concatenation, |
| 01:13.44 | Legorol | that'd serve your purpose? |
| 01:13.52 | cladhaire | well, they don't need to give those |
| 01:13.53 | cladhaire | we have those. |
| 01:14.00 | cladhaire | which is why they don't exist in the core language |
| 01:14.11 | Legorol | um, not array concatenation |
| 01:14.23 | cladhaire | not as an operator |
| 01:14.24 | Legorol | you mean that it's implementable with what we have? |
| 01:14.27 | cladhaire | you can write a function to do it trivially |
| 01:14.30 | Legorol | right |
| 01:14.43 | Legorol | ok, so then what is it that's lacking in Lua, that you can't implement? |
| 01:14.57 | cladhaire | well, the return values you're seeking arne't in a table |
| 01:15.01 | cladhaire | they're in a specialized tuple |
| 01:15.07 | cladhaire | that can be assigned and passed |
| 01:15.08 | cladhaire | with special meaning |
| 01:15.20 | cladhaire | if they formalized that into immutable tuples, then you'd have your native operations |
| 01:15.27 | cladhaire | or if you return your multvalues in a table |
| 01:15.29 | cladhaire | you have what you'd like |
| 01:15.30 | cladhaire | with unpack() |
| 01:16.10 | Legorol | ok, so you are saying (and i guess this makes sense), that the syntactic sugar of a comma separated list of objects in Lua |
| 01:16.13 | Legorol | is an example of a tuple |
| 01:16.20 | cladhaire | yes |
| 01:16.27 | cladhaire | ... being the perfect example |
| 01:16.31 | cladhaire | its an immutable tuple |
| 01:16.33 | cladhaire | we can't change it |
| 01:16.38 | cladhaire | we can pass it |
| 01:16.39 | Legorol | ok |
| 01:16.39 | cladhaire | and we can index it. |
| 01:16.46 | cladhaire | using a specialized function =) |
| 01:16.57 | Legorol | can you try and explain to me why you want to formalize immutable tuples, |
| 01:17.08 | Legorol | any more than just extending , to be a concatenation of tuples? |
| 01:17.18 | Legorol | sorry rephrase: |
| 01:17.24 | Legorol | why you want to formalize tuples |
| 01:17.28 | Legorol | (remove immutable) |
| 01:18.14 | cladhaire | they're useful for argument and parameter checking, and you can use them more flexibly as say, return values. |
| 01:18.18 | cladhaire | you could ge tyour concatenation |
| 01:18.26 | Esamynn | Antiarc|Work: ping |
| 01:18.46 | cladhaire | Legorol: And we don't have a compelling case, so we don't have them =) |
| 01:18.46 | Legorol | ok i understand i'd get concatenation, can you try and give me an example of what else you could get with it? |
| 01:18.53 | Legorol | ah ok |
| 01:19.12 | Legorol | argument checking isn't a strong point of Lua, and that's good about it, isn't it? |
| 01:19.33 | Legorol | Lua being somewhat typeless (yeah i know i am using loose phrases here), |
| 01:19.35 | cladhaire | if we get token filters, then yes =0 |
| 01:19.43 | Legorol | does it make sense for you to want type checking? |
| 01:19.48 | cladhaire | the words you're lookign for is dynamically typed =) |
| 01:19.59 | cladhaire | Many would like the ability to type check |
| 01:20.04 | cladhaire | without needing to be crazy explicit |
| 01:20.10 | cladhaire | as in having 5 argcheck() calls in the first five lines |
| 01:20.12 | Shirik | strict type would be nice, but Lua would also lose some of its power too. Some like it, some hate it |
| 01:20.13 | cladhaire | token filters allow that |
| 01:20.32 | cladhaire | the POWER of lua is that we can implement strictness, _AND_ type checking using the langauge iutself. |
| 01:20.34 | Legorol | i don't know what a token filter is, but you don't need to explain |
| 01:20.38 | cladhaire | but not learn how to type. |
| 01:21.02 | Legorol | ok, let's look at return values |
| 01:21.10 | Legorol | what would native support for tuples give you there? |
| 01:21.11 | cladhaire | Legorol: Token filters in lua are like macros in lisp, a little bit.. it means the tokens are they're being parsed by the interpreter/compiler are passed to your transformation filter first, so you can expand one symbol into another. |
| 01:21.25 | cladhaire | Legorol: {a(), b()} |
| 01:21.28 | cladhaire | would have more reasonable meaning. |
| 01:21.41 | cladhaire | i.e. if it returned multiple values, it would store the tuple in that index, rather than the first element. |
| 01:21.44 | cladhaire | just different semantics. |
| 01:22.24 | Legorol | ok so when you say you want tuples, that's an abstract statement |
| 01:22.40 | Legorol | when i say i want "," to work as a concatenator, that's a practical repharsing of the same thing? |
| 01:22.45 | Legorol | or is there more to your statement than mine? |
| 01:22.56 | cladhaire | there is more to mine |
| 01:22.58 | cladhaire | yours is a subset |
| 01:23.19 | Legorol | but would giving what i want, not give you the ability to do anything you want? |
| 01:23.30 | Legorol | s/but would giving what/but would giving me what/ |
| 01:23.47 | cladhaire | Well mine would add a new formal type to the language |
| 01:24.13 | Legorol | would that imply you could have variables of that type? |
| 01:24.19 | cladhaire | eys |
| 01:24.20 | Legorol | so e.g. i could store a tuple in a variable |
| 01:24.33 | cladhaire | yes |
| 01:24.37 | cladhaire | and because they would be immutable |
| 01:24.49 | cladhaire | you can do certain "things" with them in your implementatino |
| 01:25.12 | cladhaire | you could pass a function a tuple as the first argument, and four other arguments if you wanted |
| 01:25.15 | cladhaire | something you can do now, with tables. |
| 01:25.19 | cladhaire | but tables have side effects |
| 01:25.25 | Legorol | hm, sanity check: aren't strings essentially immutable tuples of a specific type, namely sequences of letters? |
| 01:25.30 | cladhaire | for example, with coroutines, that table could change mid computation, by the time the coroutine resumes |
| 01:25.32 | cladhaire | a tuple couldn't be |
| 01:25.40 | cladhaire | Legorol: a special case, yes. |
| 01:26.20 | Legorol | ok i think i understand it all better now |
| 01:26.36 | Legorol | i still want comma to act as concatenator :o) |
| 01:26.42 | Shirik | that complicated things for me but I'll just accept it |
| 01:26.45 | cladhaire | hehe ;-) |
| 01:26.50 | Legorol | i don't think Lua needs to have what you are asking |
| 01:26.55 | cladhaire | it doesn't. |
| 01:27.04 | cladhaire | i would like the semantics of commas changes, to require explicit () |
| 01:27.06 | Legorol | maybe it'd be nice |
| 01:27.09 | cladhaire | but i dont think that's likely |
| 01:27.11 | cladhaire | it would be _nice_ |
| 01:27.12 | Legorol | :( |
| 01:27.13 | cladhaire | aye |
| 01:27.15 | cladhaire | not necessary |
| 01:27.23 | zenzelezz | liek we should have & for string concatenation |
| 01:27.27 | pastamancer | is this where I wish that everything were lisp? |
| 01:27.28 | Legorol | well it is, otherwise there are some things you ccan't do |
| 01:27.38 | cladhaire | <3 lisp |
| 01:28.16 | Legorol | cladhaire, i will try to recall the example, but i think there's one scenario where you can't pass what you want to a vararg function |
| 01:29.12 | cladhaire | okay |
| 01:29.19 | cladhaire | the only issue i've identified is that ... can't be used as an upvalue |
| 01:29.25 | cladhaire | and tuples would solve that, for example =) |
| 01:29.48 | Legorol | just being able to use , as concatenation woudl solve that :o) |
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| 01:30.08 | cladhaire | no it wouldn't. |
| 01:30.09 | cladhaire | at all |
| 01:30.34 | Legorol | no? |
| 01:30.54 | Legorol | it'd mean you can pass ... to any function as an argument, together with any other list you want to pass |
| 01:31.09 | cladhaire | ah that's not what I want ;-) take the following |
| 01:31.35 | cladhaire | function (...) return function() return select(2, ...) end end |
| 01:31.40 | cladhaire | simple meaningless example |
| 01:31.46 | cladhaire | btu illusterates the point |
| 01:31.51 | cladhaire | that's illegal in lua at the moment |
| 01:32.13 | cladhaire | and you'd have to make a table, which defeats the point of ... |
| 01:32.33 | Legorol | right, let me think |
| 01:33.03 | Legorol | ok, the problem there is the meaning of ... |
| 01:33.17 | Legorol | ... is not an object, it's syntax sugar for the outer function's parameters |
| 01:33.24 | Legorol | which are not upvalues of the inner function |
| 01:33.32 | Legorol | s/parameters/arguments/ |
| 01:33.45 | cladhaire | currrently |
| 01:33.47 | cladhaire | it could be a tuple |
| 01:33.51 | cladhaire | is the point :P |
| 01:34.51 | Shirik | but then you'd just adjust it |
| 01:34.54 | Tain | I like, "The Riches" on FX. |
| 01:35.04 | Shirik | function(...) return function(...) return select(2,...) end end |
| 01:35.29 | Legorol | Shirik: that doesn't do the same thing |
| 01:35.32 | cladhaire | no it doesn't. |
| 01:35.33 | cladhaire | at all =) |
| 01:35.36 | Shirik | ? |
| 01:35.40 | Shirik | I don't see a difference |
| 01:35.53 | cladhaire | yous returns a functrion which accepts any number of arguments |
| 01:36.02 | Shirik | mmm you're right |
| 01:36.03 | Shirik | got it |
| 01:36.04 | cladhaire | mine returns a closure that can operate on the arguments that were passed to the generator |
| 01:36.51 | Shirik | and this is why I stick to having my functions return 1 value and only one value >< |
| 01:36.52 | Legorol | cladhaire, the problem is that ... is a more low-level thing than named arguments |
| 01:37.05 | Legorol | named arguments become local variables of that function, hence can be used as upvalues |
| 01:37.12 | cladhaire | yes, but do you see how powerful it _could_ be? =) |
| 01:37.17 | Legorol | but it also means they have to be stored somewhere other than the stack |
| 01:37.18 | cladhaire | you asked for examples. |
| 01:37.37 | pastamancer | (defun foo (args**) '#(lambda () (car args)) ; if I remember correctly |
| 01:37.57 | cladhaire | i need to read sicp again this weekend |
| 01:38.19 | pastamancer | I still haven't gotten around to reading that |
| 01:38.19 | Legorol | cladhaire: i'm afraid i have to disagree a bit |
| 01:38.57 | Legorol | in order for the generated closure to be able to use the generators parameters as upvalues, they have to be stored somewhere other than the stack |
| 01:39.06 | pastamancer | ye olde metaobject protocol is a good read though. one of these days I'll port tiny-clos to lua |
| 01:39.08 | Legorol | generator's |
| 01:39.14 | Legorol | so you can't avoid memory allocation |
| 01:39.22 | Legorol | in which case you already have the solution, in the form of a table |
| 01:39.23 | cladhaire | i'm not trying to. |
| 01:39.36 | cladhaire | yes, but it doesn't need to be traditional table allocation |
| 01:39.38 | Legorol | what you want is already possible in Lua |
| 01:39.50 | cladhaire | it allows you to do other things with it, because its immutable |
| 01:39.52 | cladhaire | in the implementation |
| 01:39.56 | cladhaire | it was just an example =) |
| 01:40.00 | cladhaire | i concede not a very good one |
| 01:40.10 | Legorol | hmm |
| 01:40.29 | Legorol | maybe i am just looking at it from too practical a pov |
| 01:40.43 | cladhaire | that's nto a bad thing |
| 01:40.49 | cladhaire | and we're not disagreeing =) |
| 01:41.02 | Legorol | but in my case i'm looking at asking for things that can't be done, as opposed to can be done but maybe cludgily |
| 01:41.10 | Legorol | no we aren't disagreeing, indeed |
| 01:41.25 | Legorol | i didn't say your tuples wouldn't make it nicer, but in my opinion don't add anything that can't be done |
| 01:41.38 | Legorol | whereas "," concatenation can't be done in Lua in the sense i want it |
| 01:41.44 | cladhaire | correct |
| 01:41.57 | cladhaire | well yes it can |
| 01:42.02 | cladhaire | just not in the WAY you want |
| 01:42.04 | Legorol | not without table creation |
| 01:42.17 | cladhaire | yes, which is no more clunky than what you're proposing I do =) |
| 01:42.26 | Legorol | well that's the whole point, i am considering the underlying mechanisms: stack, memory alocation etc. |
| 01:42.30 | cladhaire | inded |
| 01:42.35 | cladhaire | well so am I, in the proposal of the tuple. |
| 01:42.40 | Legorol | no it's more problematic than what you have to do |
| 01:42.45 | Legorol | in your case you can't avoid the memory allocation |
| 01:42.52 | cladhaire | the allocation of an immutable tuple could be handled quite differently from tables. |
| 01:42.59 | cladhaire | no, but it doesn't need to be a table, is the point. |
| 01:43.01 | Legorol | in my case you *can* avoid it in principle, there is just no language construct that allows you to |
| 01:43.06 | cladhaire | i would agree |
| 01:43.25 | Legorol | ok not a table, i agree |
| 01:43.30 | Legorol | could be something else |
| 01:43.43 | Legorol | but the essence of it would still be the same, at least from my pov |
| 01:43.46 | cladhaire | and two tuples with the same values |
| 01:43.47 | cladhaire | would be one tuple |
| 01:43.51 | cladhaire | as strings are |
| 01:43.58 | Legorol | yeah, i was going to mention that |
| 01:43.59 | pastamancer | all this tuple talk reminded me of this http://wowi.pastey.net/9812 |
| 01:44.15 | Legorol | just a generalisation of the global string cache |
| 01:44.28 | cladhaire | pastamancer: <3 |
| 01:45.02 | pastamancer | I'm only a few chapters in on the WAM paper |
| 01:45.22 | pastamancer | it doesn't have function-y predicates yet |
| 01:46.33 | pastamancer | and yanno, if you don't like lua, you can always write a VM with it that does what you want :p |
| 01:47.23 | cladhaire | yeppers =) |
| 01:47.48 | cladhaire | my PhD proposal ended up being more Lua related than I anticipated |
| 01:48.20 | pastamancer | after I got term unification working with the WAM implementation, I've been tempted to do it in a more lua-ish way to avoid needing the WAM vm |
| 01:51.15 | pastamancer | oh, clad did I ever show you my smoothsort implementation? |
| 01:51.22 | cladhaire | no, i dont think so |
| 01:51.45 | pastamancer | on the road to prolog I got distracted by algorithms |
| 01:51.55 | cladhaire | hehehe |
| 01:52.49 | pastamancer | and I have a love/hate relationship with djikstra |
| 01:52.57 | pastamancer | http://wowi.pastey.net/9814 |
| 01:53.15 | Shirik | lol |
| 01:53.53 | pastamancer | line 173 is where the more lua-ish version is |
| 01:54.06 | pastamancer | before that is straight from djikstra's paper |
| 01:54.28 | Shirik | yeah that code looks like my roommate's |
| 01:54.51 | Shirik | problem is he has no idea what he's doing... so he asks me for help |
| 01:55.01 | Shirik | and I'm like "how do you expect me to help you when I can't even read the damn thing" |
| 01:55.02 | pastamancer | it makes more sense when you're reading the paper |
| 01:55.11 | pastamancer | djikstra treats CS like it's math |
| 01:55.17 | Shirik | ah |
| 01:55.24 | Shirik | alex is just a moron :P |
| 01:55.59 | Shirik | hmm food time.... where do I go? |
| 01:56.14 | Shirik | Burger King, Wendy's, Taco Bell, and McDonalds are the choices |
| 01:56.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge TC (i=TC@cpe-76-80-184-210.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 01:56.15 | cladhaire | CS is math =) |
| 01:56.26 | Shirik | yeah but math doesn't have multiletter variables |
| 01:56.30 | cladhaire | programming is simply lambda calculus =) |
| 01:58.02 | pastamancer | so true |
| 01:58.13 | Shirik | any suggestions? :( |
| 01:58.19 | Shirik | I'm not good at making these decisions |
| 01:58.33 | cladhaire | >>> =math.random(5) |
| 01:58.36 | pastamancer | http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd07xx/EWD796a.PDF is Djikstra's paper on smoothsort |
| 01:58.38 | cladhaire | =) |
| 01:58.42 | Shirik | that works |
| 01:58.46 | pastamancer | those are all horrible choices! |
| 01:58.52 | Shirik | I don't have any others :( |
| 01:59.01 | pastamancer | get the chicken friens from BK as pennance |
| 01:59.08 | cladhaire | lol |
| 01:59.12 | Shirik | god n |
| 01:59.13 | Shirik | no |
| 01:59.13 | pastamancer | s/friens/fries/ |
| 01:59.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge stavmar_ (n=chatzill@cpe-72-179-61-149.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 01:59.17 | pastamancer | hahah |
| 01:59.27 | Shirik | if I go to BK it'll be .. I forget what it's called |
| 01:59.29 | Shirik | #11 |
| 02:00.05 | Shirik | heh, it chose BK |
| 02:00.08 | Shirik | ok be back in 30 :P |
| 02:02.30 | Legorol | cladhaire, here is something interesting |
| 02:02.40 | Legorol | an age-old problem in hooking is the following issue: |
| 02:02.58 | pastamancer | hooking ain't easy |
| 02:03.12 | Legorol | how to post-hook a function, and pass back the return values of the original function, without creating a table |
| 02:03.27 | Legorol | currently, this is impossible |
| 02:03.41 | Legorol | however, if "," could act as concatenator, then it becomes possible, like this: |
| 02:03.44 | Legorol | http://wowi.pastey.net/9816 |
| 02:03.49 | cladhaire | not entirely true, but properly, I agree. |
| 02:04.12 | Legorol | what do you mean by properly? |
| 02:04.20 | cladhaire | local a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,etc. |
| 02:04.22 | cladhaire | =) |
| 02:04.26 | Legorol | that's not proper |
| 02:04.31 | Legorol | that limits it to a finite number of arguments |
| 02:04.32 | cladhaire | hence why i said properly =) |
| 02:04.36 | Legorol | ah ok |
| 02:04.42 | Legorol | anyway, what do you think of the snippet |
| 02:04.45 | cladhaire | tuples also solved your problem |
| 02:05.38 | Legorol | oops, i might be off by a +1 |
| 02:05.48 | Legorol | there might possibly have to be an n+1 somewhere instead of n |
| 02:06.04 | Legorol | no, tuples don't exactly solve it |
| 02:06.21 | Legorol | because in your proposal, tuples potentially involve memory allocation |
| 02:06.33 | Legorol | my solution involves no memory allocation at all, just stack manipulation |
| 02:06.34 | cladhaire | and in yours you have another function, and the overhead of another call =) |
| 02:06.44 | Legorol | hehe true |
| 02:06.50 | Legorol | i wasn't considering that ;-) |
| 02:06.58 | pastamancer | dare I suggest that stack frames aren't exactly free either |
| 02:07.06 | Legorol | i was just trying to crack the impossible post-hook-without-table |
| 02:07.40 | Legorol | pastamancer: since the return values of the original function have to go on the stack anyway, they are |
| 02:07.41 | cladhaire | there is a proposal for table splicing (which is what you are asking for is called) |
| 02:07.47 | cladhaire | so it works in table constuctors. |
| 02:07.55 | Legorol | O.o |
| 02:08.06 | Legorol | no i don't want to construct a table |
| 02:08.08 | Legorol | that's the whole point |
| 02:08.11 | cladhaire | yes i know |
| 02:08.14 | cladhaire | im' just giving you news =) |
| 02:08.14 | cladhaire | :P |
| 02:08.28 | Legorol | i also thought splicing normally means cutting up |
| 02:08.34 | cladhaire | i will pursue the matter too |
| 02:08.38 | Legorol | but interesting news nevertheless |
| 02:08.39 | cladhaire | splicing also means to put together |
| 02:08.40 | cladhaire | literally |
| 02:08.44 | Legorol | aha ok |
| 02:08.51 | pastamancer | splice = join, slice = cut |
| 02:08.58 | Legorol | ok |
| 02:10.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge wobin (n=wobin@218-214-59-86.people.net.au) |
| 02:17.44 | JoshBorke | oh man, time to learn how to create dropdown menus in lua... |
| 02:19.34 | Legorol | thats a real nightmare |
| 02:20.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mortius (i=Mortius@ppp-71-128-207-76.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net) |
| 02:20.13 | JoshBorke | i'm just not gonna do it right now |
| 02:20.18 | JoshBorke | :-D |
| 02:20.23 | Mortius | Anyone know how to make odd shaped statusbars? |
| 02:20.31 | JoshBorke | define, odd shape |
| 02:20.39 | Mortius | like not retangular |
| 02:20.43 | Mortius | rec |
| 02:20.47 | JoshBorke | and i'm pretty sure it's done by creating a texture |
| 02:20.50 | cladhaire | Legorol, the reason its this way is due to cost |
| 02:20.57 | cladhaire | the cost because the assignments to specific registers cannot be known at compile time? (i recall discussing something along those lines in reference to the patch) |
| 02:21.02 | cladhaire | from #lua |
| 02:21.17 | Mortius | yeah, I know how to make the textures, but then the whole texture just moves down with the statusbar, not the color |
| 02:21.17 | cladhaire | you could only do it by implementing indirect references in the VM, which adds complexity to every reference |
| 02:21.49 | cladhaire | Legorol: I have a challenge for you, next time you can breathe =) |
| 02:22.37 | Mortius | I dont understand how metahud accomplished this. If I try to do something like that, the C-shaped texture just moves down the screen, dissapearing at the bottom. |
| 02:22.55 | JoshBorke | Mortius: then you're setting the texture incorrectly |
| 02:22.55 | Legorol | meeep |
| 02:23.09 | cladhaire | Legorol: TomTom creates minimap arrows using the same models the default UI uses. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to color them =) |
| 02:23.09 | Legorol | oh noes, look what you have done |
| 02:23.23 | cladhaire | =) |
| 02:23.26 | cladhaire | i waited :P |
| 02:23.36 | Legorol | cladhaire: no friggin idea either, but two heads on an ogre might be better than one |
| 02:23.50 | cladhaire | its either the fog, or the model lighting |
| 02:23.54 | Mortius | Thats how textures on a statusbar work though.. they actually move with the value |
| 02:23.56 | cladhaire | and i can't figure out how to make it work |
| 02:24.04 | cladhaire | Legorol: the relevant code is in TomTom on WoWinterface |
| 02:24.21 | Mortius | unless there is some kind of SetStaticTexture command I don't know about. |
| 02:24.53 | Legorol | cladhaire: i might have a look but no promises :D |
| 02:24.58 | Legorol | but comign back to the ... a bit more |
| 02:25.10 | Legorol | i am not sure i understand the register argument, but i am curious about one thing |
| 02:25.19 | Legorol | how does Lua cope with: f(a,b,g()) |
| 02:25.22 | JoshBorke | Mortius: the idea is you set a texture that hides part of the statusbar's square shape |
| 02:25.31 | Legorol | ah nvm, that's not an issue, just evaluate left to right |
| 02:26.16 | Legorol | hm ok i totally don't get the register argument |
| 02:26.19 | Mortius | As the actual statusbar's texture? or a different texture altogether? |
| 02:26.22 | cladhaire | Legorol: The answer is in 2.4.5 and 2.5 http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#2.4.3 |
| 02:26.25 | Legorol | registers can only hold references to actual variables |
| 02:26.26 | cladhaire | i dont know about the register |
| 02:26.28 | Legorol | ok i will look |
| 02:26.28 | cladhaire | that was cut and paste |
| 02:26.46 | cladhaire | rici: consider f(g(a); g(b)) |
| 02:26.47 | cladhaire | [10:26pm] rici: after g(a) is expanded, the top of the stack is not known, as an absolute index |
| 02:28.41 | Mortius | I have a sword shaped texture. Works greats. I can set it as a background texture to my statusbar. Then I can set my statusbars texture as the same sword, only redish. However, when the value changes, the statusbar's texture moves down, the hilt of the sword starts to dissapear and the sword sinks downward. |
| 02:29.42 | Mortius | In metahud, they use a texture that stays still, and just the color moves downward. |
| 02:29.46 | Shirik | does linux have something equivalent to DLLs? |
| 02:30.00 | Legorol | cladhaire: maybe i should pop into #lua |
| 02:30.08 | Legorol | that argument would apply to g(b) as well |
| 02:30.10 | cladhaire | perhaps |
| 02:30.12 | cladhaire | they're discussing it |
| 02:30.16 | Legorol | oooo |
| 02:31.33 | Cairenn | for anyone interested, have my guild now on LotRO - Silverlode server - NOT a hardcore highend raiding guild |
| 02:31.45 | Shirik | nice :) |
| 02:31.48 | Shirik | We still can't make ours :( |
| 02:31.54 | Shirik | because apparently "The Guardians" is profane language |
| 02:32.41 | Mortius | There must be some kind of "make your statusbar texture static" command I'm missing |
| 02:33.36 | Legorol | Cairenn: is LotRO still in beta? |
| 02:33.41 | Cairenn | open beta |
| 02:34.19 | Shirik | semi-open beta :P |
| 02:34.35 | Shirik | it's open for people with preorders right now, goes fully open on the 6th I believe? |
| 02:34.40 | Cairenn | aye |
| 02:34.43 | Shirik | Cairenn has all this memorized |
| 02:34.45 | Cairenn | and live on the 24th |
| 02:36.04 | Mortius | I wish I could explain this better, heh. I checked all the widgets and I've looked through metahuds code a zillion times, I'm missing something.. |
| 02:37.01 | Legorol | Cairenn: is LotRO any good then? |
| 02:37.36 | Legorol | i have only ever tried 4 mmorpgs in my life, out of which i played 2 to any length of time, out of which 1 is WoW and it's by far the best :D |
| 02:37.50 | Legorol | i don't think i can be motivated to try anything else in the near future |
| 02:38.00 | Cairenn | loving it |
| 02:38.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Sole (n=chatzill@203-118-186-231.bliink.ihug.co.nz) |
| 02:39.12 | JoshBorke | purl, hug Cairenn |
| 02:39.22 | purl | ACTION sneaks up on Cairenn and suddenly hugs Cairenn tightly |
| 02:39.29 | Cairenn | purl, hug JoshBorke |
| 02:39.32 | purl | ACTION jumps into JoshBorke's lap and huggles and *hugs* JoshBorke |
| 02:40.48 | Thunder_Child | "does she like it?" *snicker* she had a stridergasim |
| 02:41.50 | Mortius | When you guys set statusbar textures, do they move? like if there was say bubbles in it, do your bubbles move with the statusbar? or just the color? |
| 02:42.01 | Legorol | stridergasm? O.o |
| 02:44.15 | Mortius | If I create a statusbar and use :SetStatusBarTexture("<filename>"), that texture will literally move with the statusbar, it basically _IS_ the statusbar, with nothing being left behind it. |
| 02:44.29 | JoshBorke | Mortius: don't use SetStatusBarTexture |
| 02:44.39 | JoshBorke | that sets the texture of the part that moves, as you have already found out |
| 02:44.56 | Mortius | If I set no texture, then I get nothing |
| 02:46.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cogwheel|laptop (n=chatzill@c-67-164-121-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:47.17 | Mortius | ok, metahud sets a statusbar texture, and it stays still... why |
| 02:48.19 | JoshBorke | Mortius: because they set a DIFFERENT texture |
| 02:48.28 | JoshBorke | (i think, i haven't looked at the code) |
| 02:49.16 | Mortius | But you can't hide somethign behind nothing.. the statusbar will show out the sides |
| 02:50.15 | JoshBorke | tell you what, one sec |
| 02:50.26 | Mortius | I've tried using a texture as a background, but how in the world could you get a statusbar to follow the shape? |
| 02:52.48 | JoshBorke | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4474 look at that thread |
| 02:54.48 | Mortius | yeah thats what I'm trying to do.. |
| 02:56.34 | cogwheel|laptop | don't you make the bar itself a texture and just SetTexCoords? |
| 02:57.13 | Mortius | What does sextexcoords do? haven't seen that |
| 02:57.48 | Mortius | Settexcoords even |
| 02:58.06 | Mortius | Not listed on wiki |
| 02:58.28 | cogwheel|laptop | so, say the bar's going bottom to top. you anchor the bar texture at the bottom, and grow it upwards. Then you use :SetTexCoords (iirc... not sure if that's the right name) the texture so only the bottom part shows |
| 02:58.33 | cogwheel|laptop | it's a widget api |
| 02:58.42 | zenzelezz | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_Texture_SetTexCoord |
| 02:58.58 | Mortius | ah I searched for Settexcoords |
| 03:00.34 | cogwheel|laptop | heh... yeah... I always use firefox so it jumps to the first occurrence as you're typing the search string |
| 03:00.48 | cogwheel|laptop | (have a bookmark to the api page) |
| 03:00.56 | Mortius | yeah I used to use firefox all the time too, I haven't been since installing vista for some reason :X |
| 03:01.15 | cogwheel|laptop | :) |
| 03:01.24 | zenzelezz | I find your lack of faith disturbing |
| 03:01.27 | Mortius | lol |
| 03:02.12 | Mortius | Well I'm looking at this and I'm making no sense of it yet. I'll see if I can find out how to use this.. |
| 03:02.40 | cogwheel|laptop | yeah... graphics manipulation isn't exactly simple stuff |
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| 03:03.44 | Mortius | So you use that instead of actually setting the value of the statusbar? |
| 03:03.53 | cogwheel|laptop | The simplest version of that function, though, is :SetTexCoord(left, right, top, bottom). |
| 03:03.57 | Mortius | just leave the statusbar at full? |
| 03:04.37 | cogwheel|laptop | Well, I'm not quite sure how the statusbar code works... never used one myself. I might be overcomplicating it for you, but at least it's an answer ;) |
| 03:05.17 | Mortius | hehe and I appeciate it. :) |
| 03:05.21 | cogwheel|laptop | Have you looked at the statusbar code to see if there's any easy access to the textures? |
| 03:05.22 | Mortius | appreciate it too |
| 03:06.08 | Mortius | I found Settexcoord being used by metahud, so I'm assuming that's how they do it |
| 03:06.44 | cogwheel|laptop | so basically, imagine every texture is a square |
| 03:06.52 | cogwheel|laptop | and that square is 1x1 |
| 03:06.59 | cybane | Hey all |
| 03:07.32 | cogwheel|laptop | With SetTexCoord, you set the x & y coordinates of the four corners of the portion you want to show |
| 03:08.10 | Mortius | okay.. I think I'm starting to get it. |
| 03:08.40 | cogwheel|laptop | So, if you have the texture frame 1/3 the height of the status bar, you would SetTexCoord(0, 1, .66666666666, 1) |
| 03:08.52 | cogwheel|laptop | (assuming a status bar growing upward) |
| 03:09.00 | cogwheel|laptop | (and unless i got the math wrong :P ) |
| 03:09.26 | Mortius | haha, yeah I think I understand now. |
| 03:09.29 | cybane | lol assuming this and that it should(TM) work |
| 03:09.33 | Mortius | hehe |
| 03:09.55 | Mortius | meta does local texture,x0,x1,y0,y1 = unpack( self.C_textures[name] ); and then later down does bgt:SetTexCoord(x0,x1,y0,y1); |
| 03:10.01 | cogwheel|laptop | I'm planning to go to law school >< |
| 03:10.03 | cybane | Oh cog very nice macros for the warriors. Saw them on the forums |
| 03:10.08 | zenzelezz | when in doubt, quote Knuth |
| 03:10.15 | cogwheel|laptop | cool :) |
| 03:11.13 | Mortius | alright, I'm going to work with this and see what I come up with. Thanks a lot. |
| 03:11.32 | cogwheel|laptop | have fun :) |
| 03:11.55 | Mortius | It will a blast, I'm sure. haha, thanks again. |
| 03:16.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBork1 (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 03:20.08 | zenzelezz | I never used /q, only /s |
| 03:20.31 | zenzelezz | somehow I never trusted "quick" formats |
| 03:21.24 | zenzelezz | must have been around the time I had PGP installed... seems so long ago now |
| 03:21.55 | cogwheel|laptop | Well, I've always been impatient XD |
| 03:22.32 | cogwheel|laptop | really, though, I had done so many full formats on so many hard drives without any problems that I gave up |
| 03:22.43 | cogwheel|laptop | floppys on the other hand... |
| 03:22.59 | cogwheel|laptop | s/y/ies/ |
| 03:23.07 | cogwheel|laptop | or something |
| 03:23.20 | zenzelezz | flopiess? Is that a female floppy? |
| 03:23.39 | cogwheel|laptop | or a mangling of floppiness... |
| 03:25.49 | Kirkburn|afk | This is awesome - http://www.istartedsomething.com/20070331/live-sushi/ |
| 03:28.34 | cogwheel|laptop | wtf? |
| 03:28.37 | cogwheel|laptop | rofl |
| 03:29.22 | Kirkburn|afk | You could spend hours getting to see all the animations |
| 03:31.42 | Shirik | lol |
| 03:37.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 03:38.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mortius (i=Mortius@ppp-71-128-207-76.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net) |
| 03:51.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [dRaCo] (i=drc@p5485a3a4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:58.32 | cybane|work | People come with the craziest things on the internet |
| 04:02.44 | Shirik | isn't that what's so wonderful about it? |
| 04:03.49 | cybane|work | No the internet is for Porn!! |
| 04:10.56 | Corrodias | sigh, i have to pack up my computers tonight :( |
| 04:11.26 | Corrodias | i don't know if i can trust AT&T/Yahoo/SBC/whoeverelse to by my ISP, but it sounded better than Charter Cable and i'd never settle for satellite service |
| 04:11.31 | Corrodias | to be |
| 04:32.37 | JoshBorke | cladhaire: when are you going to make StickyFrames an embeddable library ^_^ |
| 04:32.46 | cladhaire | uhh |
| 04:32.59 | cladhaire | it basically is righ tnow. |
| 04:33.10 | JoshBorke | oh really? where? |
| 04:33.14 | cladhaire | .. |
| 04:33.17 | cladhaire | its been on wowi for .. a year |
| 04:33.33 | JoshBorke | heh, it does say general library doesn't it... |
| 04:34.02 | JoshBorke | mmk |
| 04:34.11 | JoshBorke | you can go back to lurking :-D i'll leave you alone |
| 04:34.51 | cladhaire | k |
| 04:35.37 | Fin | cladhaire: it would be handy if you could include the URL that the quest notes came from in LightHeaded, btw - some of them refer to screenshots and stuff |
| 04:35.54 | cladhaire | I cna't. |
| 04:36.28 | cladhaire | there are multiple URLs |
| 04:36.28 | cladhaire | best bet is to just search on the quest name |
| 04:36.28 | cladhaire | well i could |
| 04:36.28 | cladhaire | but i'm not sure its useful. |
| 04:36.28 | JoshBorke | cladhaire: did you end up making your own frame yet? |
| 04:36.30 | cladhaire | no |
| 04:37.53 | Fin | cladhaire: how about a URL for each comment? that's hidden by default and can pop up if you click a [url] link or something? |
| 04:38.31 | cladhaire | okay, again.. i'm not sure i see the point to it |
| 04:38.37 | cladhaire | unless its copy/pasteable. |
| 04:43.09 | Fin | oh, sorry, yes I meant copy & pastable; apologies for not being more specific |
| 04:43.23 | Fin | I was imagining something like the URL copying addons |
| 04:43.28 | Fin | +I've used in the past |
| 04:43.55 | Fin | they all seem to be essentially the same - an editable box popping up that you can use to copy a URL for pasting outside the game |
| 04:45.16 | Fin | it was just for the screenshots, I didn't care first time I saw one referenced, but the last three quests have used them |
| 04:47.09 | cladhaire | I'll think about it. |
| 04:48.00 | JoshBorke | everytime my fiancee tells me that, it means no |
| 04:48.43 | Fin | I wouldn't ask for anything more, and yes mine does that too Josh |
| 04:56.24 | JoshBorke | well if that wasn't the weirdest error ever: invalid order function for sorting |
| 04:56.27 | JoshBorke | wtf does that mean? |
| 04:56.59 | cladhaire | you supplied an invalid order function for sorting :P |
| 04:57.23 | JoshBorke | but it worked mere moments earlier |
| 04:57.31 | cladhaire | stop breaking things =) |
| 04:57.54 | JoshBorke | could it be a problem with the table size? |
| 04:58.36 | JoshBorke | why would it work one second and not another? |
| 05:03.25 | JoshBorke | so what constitutes a valid sort function? it returns only true or false, right? |
| 05:07.30 | JoshBorke | huh, interesting |
| 05:07.41 | JoshBorke | so by removing 3 extra table calls i got rid of the error |
| 05:12.10 | JoshBorke | ok, more weirdness |
| 05:12.40 | JoshBorke | if i create a table to hold the values returned by GetItemInfo for every call to mySort, it works fine |
| 05:13.02 | JoshBorke | albeit creating 5 MB of garbage |
| 05:13.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge PProvost_ (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 05:13.19 | JoshBorke | if i use the same 2 tables it tells me it's an invalid order function |
| 05:13.29 | JoshBorke | that leads me to believe it's having issues with using the same 2 tables |
| 05:19.37 | JoshBorke | so, i changed it to pull from an array of tables, about 8 elements long |
| 05:19.42 | JoshBorke | and it works |
| 05:19.44 | JoshBorke | why? |
| 05:21.50 | JoshBorke | i could understand if it were threaded and were making multiple simultaneous calls to the function |
| 05:22.04 | JoshBorke | but why when only one call at a time should be processed? |
| 05:25.57 | JoshBorke | erm, how do i get the op code of a .lua file again? |
| 05:27.55 | JoshBorke | nvm |
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| 05:37.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Jocco_S (n=jocco@217-210-128-16-no18.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 05:41.17 | cybane|work | >.< If your computer is not working right DO NOT CALL YOUR ISP! |
| 05:42.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mr_Rabies2|away (i=catbutts@adsl-066-156-082-132.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 05:45.12 | Mr_Rabies2|away | man i hate how long it takes for this server to drop ghosts |
| 05:53.16 | Mr_Rabies2 | blah youtube won't work for me cause i blacklisted their ads :[ |
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| 06:00.39 | pastamancer | ~emulate cogwheel |
| 06:00.40 | purl | ACTION shakes its fist at the forums... http://ctscreens.net/5307 |
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| 07:01.10 | Corrodias | i've found that to happen on sites when firefox somehow screws up the cached page |
| 07:01.20 | Corrodias | i need to refresh the page with "(skip cache)" |
| 07:07.40 | Shirik | That was the forums being jacked up, actually, but yeah it can happen |
| 07:07.48 | Shirik | typically when it caches the CSS file and the CSS has changed |
| 07:08.10 | Shirik | by refreshing with "skip cache" I hope you mean shift+click refresh, though |
| 07:08.14 | Shirik | because that's the easy way to do it :P |
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| 07:22.15 | Corrodias | well, i mouse gesture up, down, up |
| 07:22.54 | Shirik | ah |
| 07:22.54 | Shirik | nice |
| 07:26.09 | Corrodias | WHOA this sounds so strange with my right-hand computer turned off |
| 07:26.16 | Shirik | ? |
| 07:26.16 | Corrodias | for the first time in... months |
| 07:26.28 | Corrodias | i'm moving, so i have to pack up my computers |
| 07:27.43 | Shirik | ah right |
| 07:29.15 | Corrodias | maybe... i should update my backups a little |
| 07:31.50 | Corrodias | hmmmm. i'm not so keen on totally waiting for my computer to copy 95gb of porn-related files |
| 07:32.51 | Corrodias | i think i'll just make sure that drive is well-padded >_> |
| 07:40.26 | Mike-N-Go | How do I link to this room? http://irc.freenode.net#wowi-lounge I thought it was. |
| 07:41.41 | Shirik | irc://irc.freenode.net/wowi-lounge |
| 07:41.46 | Mike-N-Go | Thanks |
| 07:48.09 | Shirik | oi |
| 07:48.16 | Shirik | Kirkburn|afk is killing me >< |
| 07:48.42 | Kirkburn|afk | That's ... odd? |
| 07:48.59 | Shirik | Clearfont = headaches >< |
| 07:49.04 | Shirik | Great addon, though |
| 07:49.44 | Shirik | Updater doesn't like it because it doesn't know what [WoW directory] means so it can't extract it. When I finally got it to start working, now it's trying to back up the entire C:\Program Files\World of Warcraft directory before installing >< |
| 07:49.53 | Shirik | 4GB in a zip file, not so much... |
| 07:50.40 | Shirik | but, if I can get it to work with ClearFont I think it'll pretty much be good to go ^^ |
| 07:50.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (n=ckknight@rrcs-74-62-251-185.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 07:51.43 | Kirkburn|afk | What updater? |
| 07:52.19 | Shirik | http://code.google.com/p/wowiupdater |
| 07:52.46 | Kirkburn|afk | Use the Ace version |
| 07:52.53 | Shirik | that only works for ace mods |
| 07:53.18 | Kirkburn|afk | Perhaps I was hinting something |
| 07:53.30 | Shirik | I know, but I'm writing one for all of wowi |
| 07:53.33 | Kirkburn|afk | heh |
| 07:53.44 | Kirkburn|afk | I'll get around to putting ClearFont2 on the sites someday |
| 07:54.05 | Shirik | it's on wowi already, isn't it? :/ |
| 07:58.43 | Kirkburn|afk | CF1, yes |
| 08:01.40 | Shirik | ooh you have a new one? |
| 08:03.48 | Corrodias | clearfont 2 |
| 08:03.51 | Corrodias | welcome to months ago |
| 08:03.55 | Shirik | :( |
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| 08:04.23 | Shirik | This is the story of my life |
| 08:04.38 | Corrodias | in this time period, anna nicole smith is still alive! you may rejoice. |
| 08:04.51 | Shirik | heh |
| 08:04.56 | Shirik | sadly |
| 08:05.03 | Shirik | I didn't know she was dead until about a week ago :/ |
| 08:05.10 | Shirik | when I was on vacation with my family and my mom brought it up |
| 08:05.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Insa (n=ins@36.126-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 08:06.03 | Corrodias | well now that you're in months ago, it's no longer true |
| 08:06.08 | Corrodias | or not yet |
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| 08:06.43 | Shirik | oh, yey |
| 08:16.33 | cybane|work | lol |
| 08:16.42 | cybane|work | You guys talk about some crazy stuff |
| 08:18.15 | Shirik | well thing is |
| 08:18.17 | Corrodias | okay, i need to take this computer offline so i can figure out the incredible tangle of ethernet, phone, and power cords underneath this desk |
| 08:18.21 | Shirik | I'm crazy, and Corrodias plays along with it |
| 08:18.29 | Shirik | have fun Codayus |
| 08:18.32 | Shirik | or Corrodias |
| 08:18.37 | Shirik | stupid tab completion >.> |
| 08:18.41 | Corrodias | i seem to have 3 phone cords going god knows where, as well as three computers plugged into a router plugged into the dsl modem and all of them plugged into the wall |
| 08:18.44 | cybane|work | lol |
| 08:18.49 | cybane|work | YAY for tab completion |
| 08:18.59 | cybane|work | ewwww DSL |
| 08:19.13 | cybane|work | Who is your provider? |
| 08:19.16 | Corrodias | actually, they're plugged into power strips or not which are plugged into a UPS that weighs over 100 lbs and god knows how we're going to get that out |
| 08:19.20 | Corrodias | Centurytel / Alltel |
| 08:19.30 | cybane|work | OKay I do not support them |
| 08:19.30 | Shirik | not hard to figure out |
| 08:19.32 | Shirik | name: Corrodias |
| 08:19.32 | Shirik | address: n=no@207-118-212-165.dyn.centurytel.net |
| 08:19.33 | Corrodias | so far they've been a fine ISP. i'm going to miss them. |
| 08:19.49 | Corrodias | except perhaps the low speed for the price |
| 08:20.03 | cybane|work | I have roadrunner and have not had any problems with it |
| 08:20.18 | Shirik | probably because you don't have brighthouse |
| 08:20.25 | Corrodias | i'm going to have AT&T/SBC/Yahoo DSL at my new apartment. we'll have to see how it goes. |
| 08:20.32 | cybane|work | I have just roadrunner nothing they bought |
| 08:20.35 | Shirik | I'm on a business line from roadrunner through brighthouse |
| 08:20.54 | Corrodias | my only other serious, non-satellite option appeared to be charter cable (which is BLECH). although i think i forgot to explore wireless broadband options. |
| 08:20.57 | Corrodias | now that i think about it |
| 08:21.12 | Shirik | Clearwire is interesting if they have it in your area |
| 08:21.15 | Shirik | heard good things about it |
| 08:21.23 | cybane|work | I have been thinking about a DS1 if I ever make enough money |
| 08:21.34 | Corrodias | sounds familiar. wireless broadband? |
| 08:21.38 | Shirik | yeah |
| 08:21.42 | cybane|work | I hear Verizon EVDO is every where |
| 08:22.26 | cybane|work | lol |
| 08:22.33 | Corrodias | oh dear. clearwire's speed for price is pretty low compared to AT&T's DSL. i just hope they're a good ISP. |
| 08:22.44 | Corrodias | i don't even want to think about what could happen if the service is unreliable |
| 08:23.08 | Shirik | they don't even allow the service to be unreliable. If they even think it's possible that you'll have a bad connection, they won't let you order until a technician comes to your house |
| 08:23.22 | Shirik | Like I said I've only heard good things. Not suprised it's expensive though, it's fairly new |
| 08:23.30 | Corrodias | referring to AT&T, not clearwire. check my sentence. |
| 08:23.31 | Corrodias | oh. |
| 08:23.33 | Shirik | ah |
| 08:23.37 | Corrodias | i miswrote it! |
| 08:23.42 | Shirik | yeah you wrote it backwards >< |
| 08:23.48 | Corrodias | i meant to say -- i just hope AT&T is a good ISP. |
| 08:23.49 | Shirik | I don't know the pricing on clearwire really |
| 08:24.00 | Shirik | and never went with AT&T can't help you there |
| 08:24.03 | Corrodias | clearwire's pricing just about matches the price per speed of the DSL here through alltel |
| 08:24.22 | Corrodias | oddly enough the service in eau claire through AT&T dsl blows them away |
| 08:24.32 | Corrodias | hence my concerns about quality |
| 08:27.04 | Corrodias | by that i mean 6mbps down / 768kbps up for $35/mo, if i remember correctly. AT&T seems to be having just a spot of trouble with their web site. ;P |
| 08:27.16 | Corrodias | oh boy |
| 08:27.24 | Corrodias | inspire confidence! |
| 08:27.27 | Shirik | heh |
| 08:28.52 | Corrodias | yes, i think those numbers are correct. $35/mo, 2 months free, free modem with a 1-year contract. apparently something like 11 email boxes with 2gb of storage or something silly like that |
| 08:29.01 | Corrodias | i have two yahoo mail accounts and neither is over 100mb right now :o |
| 08:29.27 | Corrodias | do people email each other DVD images? |
| 08:29.39 | Shirik | lol |
| 08:30.03 | Mr_Rabies2 | most email servers won't send anything larger than 10mb for a single file |
| 08:30.10 | Mr_Rabies2 | er single messaage |
| 08:30.27 | Shirik | YES!!! |
| 08:30.29 | Shirik | Got it! |
| 08:30.45 | Corrodias | CLEARFONT TWO?! |
| 08:30.50 | Shirik | er, no |
| 08:30.56 | Shirik | but it installed clearfont one correctly!! |
| 08:31.03 | Corrodias | OBSOLETE! |
| 08:31.23 | Shirik | If the author would update wowi then perhaps I'd be up-to-date!! |
| 08:32.32 | Kirkburn|afk | Shushki |
| 08:32.58 | Corrodias | okay. GOOD NIGHT INTERNET |
| 08:33.07 | Shirik | night |
| 08:33.27 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm out too |
| 08:33.29 | Shirik | night |
| 08:33.46 | Mr_Rabies2 | corr and i seem to have similar mental clocks |
| 08:33.51 | Mr_Rabies2 | it's bizarre |
| 08:33.52 | Shirik | or maybe |
| 08:33.55 | Shirik | you're the same person! |
| 08:34.31 | Mr_Rabies2 | YOU JUST BLEW MY MIND |
| 08:34.31 | Shirik | I blew Corrodias's too |
| 08:34.31 | Kirkburn|afk | Do you also get PMT at the same time? |
| 08:36.35 | Mr_Rabies2 | they call it pmt over there |
| 08:36.37 | Mr_Rabies2 | :O |
| 08:37.53 | Mr_Rabies2 | anyway before this conversation heads into beyond strange |
| 08:37.57 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm going to bed |
| 08:39.22 | Shirik | oops |
| 08:39.32 | Shirik | I take that back, it didn't install clearfont correctly |
| 08:39.40 | Shirik | It deleted my entire interface/addons folder |
| 08:39.43 | Shirik | and then installed clearfont |
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| 08:59.04 | bleeter | Mr_Rabies2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daFdPGBjrPU nsfw |
| 09:02.06 | bleeter | gah, he went afk |
| 09:23.07 | Shirik | bleeter, still here? |
| 09:31.10 | bleeter | kinda |
| 09:31.26 | Shirik | mmm well I figured out my problem, but perhaps you have an idea of a better way to do this? |
| 09:31.29 | Shirik | I used this command: |
| 09:32.03 | Shirik | wc -l `find ./ -name *.java` `find ./ -name *.cpp` `find ./ -name *.h` |
| 09:32.07 | Shirik | is there a better way to do that? |
| 09:33.01 | Shirik | note it needs to recurse directories too |
| 09:34.11 | pastamancer | you can use -o to or the arguments together |
| 09:35.15 | pastamancer | find ./ \( -name *.java -o -name *.cpp -o -name *.h \) -print0 | xargs -0 wc -l |
| 09:36.00 | bleeter | heh, thx pastamancer... beat me to it |
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| 09:36.40 | Shirik | xargs is for what? |
| 09:36.59 | Shirik | oh |
| 09:37.02 | bleeter | build and execute command lines from standard input |
| 09:37.06 | Shirik | it's the same as if I had done `find ...` |
| 09:37.08 | Shirik | yes? |
| 09:37.15 | pastamancer | xargs will spawn multiple wc processes if the argument list is greater than the allowed amount |
| 09:37.20 | Shirik | ah |
| 09:37.22 | Shirik | ok |
| 09:37.42 | Shirik | thanks :) |
| 09:37.49 | pastamancer | xargs is fancy stuff |
| 09:38.31 | pastamancer | yeah, it wouldn't be nearly as useful without -0 |
| 09:39.10 | Shirik | I'm assuming -print0 causes find to put a null terminator after each entry? |
| 09:39.17 | pastamancer | yup |
| 09:39.18 | Shirik | and then xargs picks that up |
| 09:39.20 | Shirik | nice |
| 09:39.45 | bleeter | compare and contrast to find's own -exec switch |
| 09:40.07 | Kirkburn|afk | bleeter, what time is it there? |
| 09:40.14 | bleeter | 19:40 |
| 09:41.15 | bleeter | Kirkburn|afk: you've got FF webbrowser? Sounds like you need the 'FoxyClocks' extension. Multiple clocks on toolbar thingie |
| 09:41.26 | Kirkburn|afk | IE7 |
| 09:41.29 | bleeter | I've got mine set to show about 5 TZ's on mouseover |
| 09:41.30 | Shirik | omg |
| 09:41.33 | Shirik | someone kick him |
| 09:41.52 | bleeter | Kirkburn|afk: I *am* surpised you don't have it |
| 09:42.03 | bleeter | being an admin of a certain site, 'n all :P |
| 09:44.18 | Kirkburn|afk | I have FF, but I don't use it :) |
| 09:44.42 | Shirik | you enjoy subjecting yourself to torture? |
| 09:44.47 | Shirik | =P |
| 09:46.04 | bleeter | course, if you had a real OS, you'd just type " TZ=Australia/Perth date" |
| 09:46.08 | bleeter | or similar :P |
| 09:47.15 | bleeter | (for future reference, feel free to 'TZ=Australia/Tasmania date' ) |
| 09:49.08 | bleeter | Kirkburn|afk: does Vista insist that the BIOS date be in localtime? I seem to recall it being an issue in XP dualboot environs |
| 09:49.23 | Kirkburn|afk | No idea |
| 09:49.35 | Kirkburn|afk | I call torture waiting 10 seconds for my browser to load |
| 09:49.39 | Kirkburn|afk | IE7 takes 3 |
| 09:49.55 | Kirkburn|afk | Plus it's awesome :) |
| 09:50.22 | bleeter | only awesome browser I know of is elinks :P |
| 09:51.15 | Shirik | not lynx? |
| 09:51.27 | Shirik | I used that for a while |
| 09:51.31 | Shirik | just for the hell of it |
| 09:52.43 | bleeter | elinks has tabs, some JS support, usable menu system, generally hawt. some flaws, but which browser don't ;) |
| 09:52.59 | bleeter | has lotsa other stuff too |
| 09:53.31 | bleeter | you can extend it with lua too ;) |
| 09:57.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Jens (n=jens@pdpc/supporter/active/Jens) |
| 10:00.49 | cybane|work | I am so fricken bored |
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| 10:27.03 | cybane|work | What would you guys do if you could setup a real mine in WoW? |
| 10:28.33 | Shirik | huh? |
| 10:29.49 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Legorol (i=Legorol@zr205.trin.cam.ac.uk) |
| 10:39.25 | Kirkburn|afk | I need suggestions on how I might shorten http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Main_Page_Dev |
| 10:39.53 | Shirik | I'll take a look at it tommorow, promise |
| 10:40.02 | Shirik | I'm dead tired right now and on a happy note I fixed so many bugs today >< |
| 10:40.10 | Shirik | trying to keep it that way |
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| 10:49.42 | Shirik | night all |
| 10:57.56 | Kirkburn|afk | Night Shirik|zZz |
| 10:58.10 | Kirkburn|afk | bleeter, what time is it now? ;) |
| 10:59.02 | Kirkburn|afk | Tasmania is on eastern Aussi time, no? NZ another hour ahead? |
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| 11:22.55 | bleeter | Kirkburn|afk: time you stopped asking annoying questions :P |
| 11:23.06 | Kirkburn|afk | I have my reasons |
| 11:23.41 | bleeter | http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ |
| 11:25.02 | bleeter | ie, it's 1st April in some places already |
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| 14:00.40 | zenzelezz | I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's something fishy with the wiki today |
| 14:07.09 | JoshBorke | oh geebus, it's april 1st |
| 14:07.09 | zenzelezz | you spikked the 31st? |
| 14:07.19 | zenzelezz | skipped... l2type zenzio |
| 14:07.58 | JoshBorke | wow, that was nice |
| 14:09.16 | zenzelezz | when the revolution comes there will be no more 1st April; we'll go straight from 32nd March to 2nd April |
| 14:17.06 | Legorol | morning cladhaire |
| 14:17.23 | cladhaire | morning. |
| 14:17.33 | Legorol | I had an idea about the problem of list concatenation, i think i might suggest it to the #lua guys |
| 14:17.49 | Legorol | now that rici explained to me the issues that it has with the stack pointer |
| 14:18.15 | cladhaire | again, you may want to avoid calling it list concatenation, since that has an entirely different meaning in lua |
| 14:18.21 | Legorol | ok |
| 14:18.25 | Legorol | i will call it something else ;-) |
| 14:18.35 | cladhaire | in order the get the most receptive response =) |
| 14:18.37 | Legorol | dealing with multi-value returns from functions in variable lists |
| 14:18.44 | Legorol | how about that? |
| 14:19.09 | Legorol | the term "varlist" is used by the lua manual so i should be safe with that :o) |
| 14:19.14 | cladhaire | soudns reasonable, tho they more often than not see the issue in the call of a function, rather than variable assignment. |
| 14:19.31 | Legorol | ok, well the issue is at the point of putting stuff on the stack |
| 14:19.38 | Legorol | whether it be for calling a function, assignment, or whatever |
| 14:19.42 | cladhaire | correct |
| 14:19.50 | Legorol | basically the issue arises in any expression tha thas comma separated values |
| 14:20.12 | Legorol | ok, i will say "dealing with multi-value returns in expressions with comma separated list of values" |
| 14:20.27 | Legorol | exact enough? :D |
| 14:20.35 | cladhaire | should be good enough =) |
| 14:20.43 | Legorol | anyway, my thought was this: |
| 14:20.54 | Legorol | i will run it by you first, just to test it |
| 14:21.04 | cladhaire | i'll do my best to grok it. |
| 14:21.49 | Legorol | as far as i understood the problem is that putting items on the stack at the level of the compiler must be done with offsets from the stack pointer, where the offsets are known at compile time |
| 14:21.59 | Legorol | at hte moment the VM opcodes don't allow anything else |
| 14:22.32 | Legorol | one possibility that rici doesn't like is widening the options for offsets, which would slow the VM |
| 14:23.10 | Legorol | so why not introduce a new opcode or set of opcodes, which would use a wider range of options (such as offsets using a register entry), but |
| 14:23.40 | Legorol | the compiler would generate these opcodes *only if* it's compliing a comma-separated list, and one of the entries that's not the last one may return multiple values |
| 14:23.46 | Legorol | i thinkt hta's an acceptabel tradeoff.. |
| 14:23.52 | Legorol | s/hta/that/ |
| 14:23.56 | cladhaire | i suspect it would add unnecessary complexity to the parser |
| 14:23.57 | Legorol | bah, typo galore |
| 14:24.10 | Legorol | i am not sure it would |
| 14:24.24 | Legorol | you know when oyu are parsing a list, already |
| 14:24.32 | cladhaire | its not a list =) |
| 14:24.33 | Legorol | since you ahve to discard all but the first return value if you are in the middle |
| 14:24.35 | Legorol | bah |
| 14:24.36 | Legorol | ok, |
| 14:24.43 | Legorol | you know when you are parsing a comma separated list of values |
| 14:24.53 | cladhaire | heheh I just know how these guys will object, and want to give you a good chance of getting somewhere :P |
| 14:24.54 | Legorol | since you already have to deal with the middle entries differently than the last one |
| 14:25.00 | Legorol | cheers :o) |
| 14:25.05 | Legorol | hence why i'm running it by you first ;-) |
| 14:26.18 | cladhaire | I fear that the complexity this would add, in opcodes (There isn't any room for opcodes at the moment, I believe) and in the parsing, is not worth the trade off |
| 14:26.25 | cladhaire | for something that already has a reasonable alternative. |
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| 14:27.06 | Seracht | Hi |
| 14:27.15 | Seracht | is there a mod that gets past the 49 limit of /who |
| 14:27.17 | cladhaire | I do not feel there's a strong enough case for adding any complexity, and the three Lua authors are very ... rigid when it comes to change |
| 14:27.35 | cladhaire | Seracht: not directly, there are some that can run a /who multiple times to get all the results. |
| 14:27.39 | cladhaire | see censusplus for examples. |
| 14:29.12 | Seracht | Ok thank you |
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| 15:07.14 | Industrial | Anyone know how i close/kill a screen window if 'c-a k' doesnt work? |
| 15:07.45 | [dRaCo] | killall screen? ^^ |
| 15:07.50 | Kirkburn | http://www.wowwiki.com/Main_Page ... go now. |
| 15:07.54 | Calliee | try alt-F4 |
| 15:08.38 | Industrial | no lol im heeping my irc session |
| 15:08.41 | Industrial | keeping* |
| 15:08.41 | Kirkburn | no, no ctrl+alt+shift+insert+k,3,c+backspace, then breakdance whilst juggling 3 steak knives. |
| 15:08.47 | Industrial | sigh |
| 15:09.30 | [dRaCo] | wtf kirkburn, it's not april 1st yet : |
| 15:09.46 | Kirkburn | It is for bleeter |
| 15:10.27 | bleeter | all oceanic realms |
| 15:11.59 | Calliee | there sould just be 1 standard tme for the whole globe |
| 15:12.23 | bleeter | there is, it's called UTC :P |
| 15:12.32 | Calliee | lol true |
| 15:13.20 | cladhaire | Anyone here played with models, in game.. particular animation sequencs? |
| 15:15.09 | JoshBorke | Industrial: you've got a process in that session that won't die |
| 15:16.10 | Industrial | JoshBorke: i just want one screen window to close |
| 15:16.27 | JoshBorke | figure out what process is keeping it from closing |
| 15:16.41 | JoshBorke | mmm, mmm, nothing like cheese grits in the morning |
| 15:17.04 | Industrial | nothing :| its just a terminal. the thing is ctrl-a k doesnt work |
| 15:17.37 | Industrial | hm, exit, duh :P |
| 15:18.55 | JoshBorke | ... |
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| 16:07.00 | JoshBorke | purl, hug Cairenn |
| 16:07.03 | purl | ACTION jumps into Cairenn's lap and huggles and *hugs* Cairenn |
| 16:07.14 | Cairenn | purl, hug JoshBorke |
| 16:07.15 | purl | ACTION jumps into JoshBorke's lap and huggles and *hugs* JoshBorke |
| 16:11.05 | Kirkburn | Morning Cairenn |
| 16:11.12 | Cairenn | hey Kirkburn :) |
| 16:11.19 | Kirkburn | Do you like the new focus of the wiki? |
| 16:12.12 | Cairenn | ROFL, you went ahead with it, cool |
| 16:12.25 | Kirkburn | =D |
| 16:15.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tuller (n=chatzill@c-68-57-185-39.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 16:21.28 | Garoun | :x http://dropbearsguild.garoun.net/forum/index.php |
| 16:22.10 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 16:30.47 | Legorol | LOL @ wowwiki! |
| 16:30.53 | Legorol | great work guys |
| 16:33.59 | Garoun | very nice :) |
| 16:34.22 | Garoun | tops the update the other webmaster and I did to our site |
| 16:39.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Srosh_ (n=Srosh@d056097.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 16:53.44 | Kirkburn | Legorol, thanks :) |
| 16:54.02 | Kirkburn | People thought it couldn't be done! I proved them wrong :D |
| 16:54.21 | Garoun | themes are wonderful :) |
| 16:54.31 | Garoun | can change entire sites ina few minutes |
| 17:00.42 | Kirkburn | Any news on other ... "events"? |
| 17:01.36 | Kirkburn | Damn feeds have stopped updating. Guess I need to restart again :( |
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| 18:22.54 | Kirkburn | Cairenn, I love you, but I'm sure I'll love Jack Thompson more |
| 18:23.09 | Cairenn | ;) |
| 18:24.08 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 18:40.56 | Kirkburn | Meow |
| 18:41.03 | JoshBorke | oink |
| 18:41.58 | Legorol | meep |
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| 19:25.26 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v Tem] by ChanServ |
| 19:25.50 | Tem | Is there something like PiL for python? |
| 19:25.55 | Shirik|zZz | PiP |
| 19:26.11 | Tem | ... I hate you for 2 reasons right now |
| 19:26.13 | Shirik | heh |
| 19:26.25 | Tem | 1) that's not the answer I wanted, and you know it |
| 19:26.29 | Shirik | Hmm, last time I did this, something bad happened but.... |
| 19:26.35 | Shirik | purl, poke Cairenn|afk |
| 19:26.45 | purl | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind Cairenn|afk, pokes Cairenn|afk repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 19:26.54 | Tem | 2) Kimi Ga kept me up all night so that I could know the end and not be depressed today |
| 19:26.59 | Shirik | hahaha |
| 19:27.01 | Shirik | sorry |
| 19:27.27 | Tem | I felt like a little girl when she took off his ring... |
| 19:28.08 | Shirik | it's very different from most animes, isn't it |
| 19:28.30 | Tem | very |
| 19:30.58 | Tem | it was very strange. I had no idea who he was going to choose, and I was terrified that it would be Haruka |
| 19:31.07 | Tem | angry even |
| 19:31.39 | Shirik | is dolby-wowi here? |
| 19:31.57 | Tem | dolby-wowi is too busy being THE MAN to be here |
| 19:32.17 | Shirik | he is the man |
| 19:32.21 | Shirik | but I need him :( |
| 19:32.22 | ZealotOnAStick | Kimi Ga? |
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| 19:32.32 | *** part/#wowi-lounge ajhajshhsa (n=dfgdfg@87.120.170.226) |
| 19:32.37 | Shirik | most people abbreviate it to kiminozo actually ;) |
| 19:33.27 | ZealotOnAStick | What's the full name of it? I'm intrigued now. |
| 19:33.42 | Shirik | Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien - official non-japanese name is Rumbling Hearts |
| 19:33.45 | Shirik | it means |
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| 19:34.58 | Shirik | oi I forgot :( |
| 19:35.03 | Shirik | and I can't find it |
| 19:35.11 | Shirik | it has something to do with eternity :P |
| 19:35.51 | Shirik | oh yeah |
| 19:35.55 | Shirik | The eternity you wish for |
| 19:35.58 | Tem | oh I didn't know the english name |
| 19:36.11 | Shirik | nobody uses it tbh |
| 19:36.25 | Shirik | everyone calls it KGNE or kiminozo |
| 19:41.05 | Tem | mmkay |
| 19:50.14 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Teomyr (i=teo@p54A372C7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:58.02 | wereHamster | ~seen Iriel |
| 19:58.23 | purl | iriel <n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowi-lounge, 1d 15h 23m 51s ago, saying: 'and I tried Dark and Light'. |
| 20:09.16 | Adys | two channels better than one.. Anyone knows about an addon that would regularly update the friendlist and tell when something specific updates, such as a level, an afk/dnd tag or a zone. |
| 20:10.13 | Adys | Idea would be if I want to know when Friend whatever is out of an instance.. /watch zone Friendname |
| 20:10.17 | Adys | for example |
| 20:11.55 | Shirik | CAIRENN I HATE YOU |
| 20:11.57 | Shirik | DAMN IT |
| 20:12.08 | Shirik | I just figured out it was April 1st |
| 20:15.48 | seebs | Hey, is there a mod out there that gives reasonably close estimates of actual spell damage/healing, including talents, eq, and blizzard's scaling thing where lower ranks get less +dmg? |
| 20:15.54 | seebs | Theorycraft seems to be busted for the forseeable future. |
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| 20:35.19 | Guillotine | seebs: DrDamage seems to work pretty well |
| 20:36.45 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 20:37.07 | seebs | I wouldn't mind if it also handled rogue/bear/cat abilities, and had an option to show "damage not including crits" as the default, but... It's nice. |
| 20:37.19 | seebs | And the numbers appear to be spot on, which is worth the limitations. |
| 20:46.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Garoun|Loupana (n=Garou@c-69-243-45-11.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 20:46.34 | Garoun|Loupana | always nice trying to do instances and your inet drops every 5min |
| 20:48.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Karen@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 20:48.24 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 20:48.25 | Garoun|Loupana | heya cair |
| 20:48.25 | Cairenn | hi hi |
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| 21:04.09 | Seracht | hey |
| 21:04.20 | Seracht | is there a good combat log clean up mod wowace alternative? |
| 21:04.29 | Seracht | er a wowace combat log thing |
| 21:09.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge KarlKFI (n=karl@adsl-68-120-226-184.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 21:11.14 | Seracht | would it be possible to create a mod that creates expandable combat statistics in the combat log |
| 21:11.26 | Seracht | like I am thinking you can expand dots/fights againist specific mobs |
| 21:12.32 | Seracht | like if you compress all stats of a specific DoT it will show total damage from that |
| 21:27.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik|Ecole (n=nospam@155.31.161.72) |
| 21:34.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@208.104.156.29) |
| 21:36.30 | Guillotine | ZOMG, love the april fools WoWWiki :D |
| 21:36.47 | Shirik|Ecole | yeah, that was ok |
| 21:36.56 | Shirik|Ecole | the april fools wowinterface gave me a heart attack |
| 21:38.42 | Shirik|Ecole | someone always gets me every year :( |
| 21:38.44 | Shirik|Ecole | I"m too gullible |
| 21:38.47 | kaso | Kirkburn is crazy for cats i tell you crazy! |
| 21:38.53 | Shirik|Ecole | that and I never know what day it is |
| 21:39.20 | Shirik|Ecole | good thing tomorrow is a sunday; I won't have to go to school, I can stay locked up in my room all day |
| 21:39.23 | Shirik|Ecole | nobody can get me! |
| 21:39.44 | Cairenn | too late, already got you! |
| 21:39.48 | Shirik|Ecole | T_T |
| 21:40.01 | Cairenn | *grin* |
| 21:40.12 | Shadowedd | oh that |
| 21:40.36 | Shadowedd | I would have though the jack thompson part would give it away! |
| 21:40.45 | Shirik|Ecole | well see |
| 21:40.49 | Shirik|Ecole | the problem is |
| 21:40.54 | bleeter | saddest thing about these 'yer a day early' posts, is that some traditions have it the jokes have to be played before midday |
| 21:40.55 | Shirik|Ecole | there's someone named Jack Thompson on my server |
| 21:40.59 | Shirik|Ecole | so I thought maybe it was true >< |
| 21:41.10 | Shadowedd | ahh |
| 21:41.31 | bleeter | so, if that 'law' was to be followed along with observance of a certain TZ, there'd be no April Fools online whatsoever |
| 21:41.44 | Shirik|Ecole | works for me. |
| 21:41.59 | Shirik|Ecole | =P |
| 21:42.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge batrick (i=batrick@d00-64-106-86-242.dhcp.unm.edu) |
| 21:42.40 | bleeter | Cairenn: which jack Thompson? the attorney or the actor? |
| 21:42.50 | Cairenn | attorney, obviously |
| 21:43.26 | bleeter | not really obvious to aussies :P |
| 21:43.31 | Cairenn | after all, he so loves the gaming industry, obviously I'm talking about him, right? |
| 21:43.39 | Shirik|Ecole | loves |
| 21:43.47 | bleeter | in fact |
| 21:43.57 | bleeter | if I hadn't done a google/wiki search about the actor the other day |
| 21:44.07 | bleeter | would've never known about the attorney ;) :P |
| 21:44.12 | Shirik|Ecole | He's extremely concerned about our children |
| 21:44.17 | Shirik|Ecole | MAking sure they only get the best games |
| 21:44.42 | Cairenn | if you follow any of a number of MMO webcomics (GU, PvP, PA) - you would know about him |
| 21:44.54 | Shirik|Ecole | PA loves him hehe ^^ |
| 21:45.08 | Shadowedd | or read sites like slashdot! |
| 21:45.13 | Shadowedd | or any news i guess =p |
| 21:45.20 | Shirik|Ecole | yeah he's all over slashdot too |
| 21:45.27 | bleeter | anyone in their right mind gave up reading /. last century :P |
| 21:45.36 | Cairenn | lol |
| 21:45.56 | Shadowedd | It's more interesting then bash for a homepage |
| 21:46.37 | bleeter | NASA APOD as homepage ftw! |
| 21:46.43 | Shirik|Ecole | APOD? |
| 21:47.03 | Shadowedd | nasa has it's own brand of iPod apparently |
| 21:47.08 | MentalPower | http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ |
| 21:47.12 | bleeter | astronomy picture of the day |
| 21:47.15 | MentalPower | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:47.16 | Shirik|Ecole | oooh |
| 21:47.19 | bleeter | and it's been round longer than bloody iPods :P |
| 21:47.21 | Shirik|Ecole | that's that thing my physics prof shows us |
| 21:47.47 | Shirik|Ecole | too bad I don't go to that class very often |
| 21:48.34 | bleeter | yup, archive goes back to '95 |
| 21:54.18 | Shadowedd | Anyone know why PLAYER_REGEN_ENABLED isn't firing when leaving a battlefield while in combat? =/ |
| 21:55.41 | pastamancer | because you get PLAYER_LEAVING_WORLD instead |
| 21:56.28 | Shadowedd | that would explain it |
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| 22:04.07 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o clad|afk] by ChanServ |
| 22:12.06 | Shadowedd | pastamancer: at PLW they player is still in combat lock down |
| 22:13.35 | Shadowedd | s/they/the/ |
| 22:13.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Arrowmaster` (n=Arrow@cpe-71-72-167-136.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 22:13.51 | MentalPower | what about PEW? |
| 22:14.00 | Shadowedd | Testing that in a second |
| 22:14.01 | zenzelezz | lasers pew pew |
| 22:14.20 | MentalPower | either way you should post a bug thread on the UI forums |
| 22:14.42 | MentalPower | with as much info as possible |
| 22:14.58 | Shadowedd | Wouldn't it be better to wait till Monday? |
| 22:15.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Sole (n=chatzill@203-118-186-231.bliink.ihug.co.nz) |
| 22:15.57 | Shirik | hrm that's kinda interesting |
| 22:16.08 | Shirik | But yeah you should be out of lockdown at PEW |
| 22:16.22 | Shadowedd | Arenas take a few minutes to pop so will find out in a couple of minutes |
| 22:16.36 | Shirik | In a worst case an obvious workaround would be to use OnUpdate to poll InCombatLockdown for when you're in the clear |
| 22:16.55 | Shirik | but that's ugly |
| 22:17.01 | Shadowedd | Well, it happens when leaving a battleground so I can just check for when you're out of combat lockdown in UPDATE_BATTLEFIELD_STATUS |
| 22:17.10 | Shadowedd | battlefield, not battleground |
| 22:17.51 | Shirik | doesn't UPDATE_BATTLEFIELD_STATUS fire before PLW? |
| 22:18.17 | Shadowedd | Probably |
| 22:18.43 | Shadowedd | when I did some quick debugging it would fire a few times and one of those was out of combat lockdown though |
| 22:18.45 | Shirik | I thought you were still in lockdown at PLW though? |
| 22:18.54 | Shirik | ah |
| 22:19.23 | Shadowedd | And no, you're still in lockdown at PEW |
| 22:19.44 | Shirik | interesting |
| 22:20.47 | Shadowedd | will go post something on monday since i'm not sure if slouken raids them on saturday/sunday |
| 22:31.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Arrowmaster` (n=Arrow@cpe-71-72-167-136.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 22:31.33 | Shadowedd | Yeah, waiting to be out of combat lockdown in UPDATE_BATTLEFIELD_STATUS works better then having to watch OnUpdate at least |
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| 22:36.24 | zenzelezz | curse you Cairenn |
| 22:36.51 | pastamancer | Shadowedd: I think I use PEW |
| 22:38.00 | Shadowedd | pastamancer: Already tested, they're in combat lockdown at PEW too |
| 22:38.01 | Cairenn | hmmm? |
| 22:39.14 | pastamancer | they shouldn't be |
| 22:39.38 | pastamancer | I have my PRE stuff running on PEW and haven't had any problems |
| 22:40.10 | pastamancer | even tested it post 2.0 but pre TBC by jumping from one BG to another |
| 22:41.04 | Cairenn | zenzelezz: hmmmm? |
| 22:41.29 | Shirik | Cairenn: I think he just figured out what I did a few hours ago :P |
| 22:41.37 | Cairenn | ah |
| 22:41.45 | zenzelezz | unlike you guys I don't check the main page every few minutes |
| 22:41.49 | Shirik | haha |
| 22:42.23 | Shadowedd | I'm also leaving as soon as it leaves pastamancer, are you manually clicking leave or waiting 10-20s? |
| 22:42.28 | Shadowedd | err, leaving as soon as it ends |
| 22:43.18 | Shadowedd | If you wait 5-10s before leaving you should be out of combat and PLAYER_REGEN_ENABLED will fire |
| 22:44.21 | pastamancer | I was leaving AV when the scoreboard came up quickly |
| 22:44.33 | pastamancer | and I was also scouting AB/WSG games |
| 22:44.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kneeki (n=kneeki@c-67-185-243-169.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 22:44.46 | kneeki | So uhh... MeowWiki? |
| 22:44.58 | kneeki | Who got that brilliant idea? |
| 22:45.00 | pastamancer | I'm upset that the catazhan guide isn't real |
| 22:45.09 | kneeki | MeoWWiki is a wiki dedicated to cataloguing the cats of Blizzard Entertainment's Warcat Universe (with a focus, though not priority, on World of Warcraft), covering the entire Warcraft series of games, RPG reference books, strategy guides, novels and other sources. However, this is not Wikipedia, and we have slightly different ways of doing things. |
| 22:46.00 | kneeki | I don't like how they end most everything with a z =\ |
| 22:46.11 | Cairenn | kneeki: have you actually clicked on any of the links? |
| 22:46.20 | kneeki | No, i'm still in shock |
| 22:46.23 | Cairenn | (or taken a look at the calendar) |
| 22:46.32 | kneeki | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:46.32 | kneeki | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:46.32 | kneeki | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:46.32 | kneeki | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:46.32 | kneeki | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:46.33 | kneeki | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:46.49 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Antiarc (n=Chris@wsip-70-184-82-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 22:46.54 | Mr_Rabies2 | OH HELL YES |
| 22:46.59 | Mr_Rabies2 | I love you kirkburn :p |
| 22:47.47 | Mr_Rabies2 | "any suggestions for wowwiki?" "i suggest you change all the links to pictures of cats" |
| 22:47.53 | Mr_Rabies2 | and so it began |
| 22:48.02 | kneeki | lol |
| 22:48.05 | zenzelezz | one of the more fun 1st April things I've seen was years ago, shortly after a part of the PlanetUnreal crowd split and formed BeyondUnreal... stole the ForumPlanet template and made it M0rumPlanet |
| 22:48.21 | kneeki | haha |
| 22:48.57 | Mr_Rabies2 | i hope he gets back |
| 22:49.04 | Mr_Rabies2 | i want to thank him |
| 22:49.45 | Shadowedd | pastamancer: If you wait a couple of seconds, or if you die then you aren't in combat lockdown at PLW/PEW...or didn't engage inc ombat at all, but if you're in combat and actively fighting when the last person dies, you're in combat lockdown for both. |
| 22:57.14 | pastamancer | Shadowedd: I'm not sure what to tell you then. PEW should clear the incombat flag |
| 22:58.18 | Shadowedd | Yeah i know, just saying thats probably why you didn't get the incombat flag for what you were doing |
| 22:59.12 | pastamancer | it was also in BGs and not arenas |
| 22:59.46 | Shadowedd | i'll have to check to make sure it's not specific to arenas |
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