| 00:00.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tuller (n=chatzill@c-76-27-166-119.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 00:00.48 | Maldivia | I don't see the reason for a 23" monitor with the same resolution as my 17" laptop... I don't want everything a half time bigger |
| 00:02.38 | Mr_Rabies2 | 1440x900 at 17" is good for me |
| 00:02.49 | Mr_Rabies2 | any larger at 17" is too tiny |
| 00:02.57 | alestane | Okay, I am not the cyCircled expert...if I'm making a highlight texture, should be the whole look of the button, or just the highlighting? |
| 00:03.42 | Maldivia | Mr_Rabies2: well, I'm used to the 1920x1200 resolution in 17" |
| 00:04.16 | Mr_Rabies2 | 1440 at 17" is the minimum text size for me |
| 00:04.18 | Maldivia | alestane: I would say justthe highlight, but not 100% |
| 00:04.56 | Lunessa | Usually a "highlight" texture would be the same texture, but with an alternate look for the highlight. See one of the skin packs for examples? |
| 00:05.28 | alestane | Lunessa: I think you're right, but I used Serenity as a starting point, and it was so featureless it's hard to be sure. |
| 00:05.35 | Maldivia | ohh, I thought the highlight was just added on top |
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| 00:12.34 | alestane | art3mis: ping |
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| 00:19.16 | Lunessa | alestane: Check the vol or gold circle skins and you'll see what I mean. I think. :) |
| 00:21.18 | alestane | It actually looks like the highlight is just overlaid, at least for the GoldOrbs one. |
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| 00:22.24 | Lunessa | Well, I guess it would depend on the "highlight" effect you wanted to apply. |
| 00:22.40 | alestane | F#$K! I think Photoshop lost my alpha channels! |
| 00:24.23 | Valaron|Work | Hmm |
| 00:24.44 | alestane | I know I had the box checked off when I saved them. |
| 00:26.44 | Lunessa | ~purl comfort alestane |
| 00:26.44 | purl | There, there, alestane. It's OK. I'm here for you. |
| 00:27.18 | Valaron|Work | Starving. |
| 00:28.37 | alestane | Starving is not good. |
| 00:28.46 | alestane | Does purl do cookies? |
| 00:29.21 | Kaydeethree | ~cookie |
| 00:29.38 | alestane | Not quite the kind of cookie I meant. |
| 00:29.44 | Kaydeethree | no kidding |
| 00:29.49 | JoshBorke | ~cookie |
| 00:29.57 | JoshBorke | ~cookie chocolate |
| 00:30.17 | JoshBorke | do stuff... milk and stuff |
| 00:30.25 | alestane | ~purl chocolate Valaron|Work |
| 00:30.25 | purl | ACTION hands Valaron|Work 2 pounds of the best Belgian chocolate, 3 pounds of the best Swiss chocolate and a gift certificate for 100 pounds of whatever other chocolate Valaron|Work might want |
| 00:30.42 | alestane | That'll work. |
| 00:31.55 | Lunessa | I think I should actually take lunch today, and drive to James Coney Island for chili dogs; I mean, why should I be the /only/ one to suffer today? |
| 00:32.09 | alestane | Um. |
| 00:32.30 | |Jelly| | So I know you can't tell what direction you're standing in while standing still but is there an addon that like tells your direction NESW while you're moving? (I don't have my minimap shown anymore) |
| 00:32.51 | Valaron|Work | Didn't Gello do something like that before? |
| 00:34.17 | JoshBorke | gd |
| 00:34.25 | JoshBorke | my computer isn't fast enough to play this curse movie |
| 00:34.37 | Valaron|Work | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5797-420compass.html, |Jelly| |
| 00:34.51 | Valaron|Work | Wasn't Gello... |
| 00:35.17 | |Jelly| | Thank you. <3 |
| 00:39.54 | Valaron|Work | And.. Xolan posts a different mod of the same variety. |
| 00:39.58 | alestane | Does cyCircled work with any bars, or a particular bar mod? |
| 00:41.25 | Lunessa | http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=508920903&pageNo=1&sid=1#0 |
| 00:41.39 | Lunessa | alestane: It works with any bar mod it's coded for. |
| 00:42.00 | alestane | But not, apparently, the stock bars. |
| 00:42.16 | Lunessa | I know it supports Bongos, Bartender 3, Yata, Trinket Menu, Item Rack and a few others |
| 00:47.06 | alestane | Got why PhotoShop is losing my alpha channels. |
| 00:47.18 | alestane | 24 bits/ pixel means 24 bits total. |
| 00:47.34 | alestane | Have to save as 32 bits/pixel. |
| 00:55.19 | alestane | art3mis: textures are here: http://www.geocities.com/starspectre/artwork/HKitty.zip It's up to you to turn them into a skin. |
| 00:55.35 | alestane | Anyone else who wants to see them, feel free. |
| 00:56.21 | alestane | You're also welcome to look at the rest of my web page. |
| 00:57.45 | art3mis | sweet thanks! |
| 00:58.00 | art3mis | theres a whole page on the clock ;P |
| 00:58.17 | alestane | I think they turned out well. |
| 00:58.19 | art3mis | err minimap |
| 00:58.38 | art3mis | yeah looks really nice, gonna hack it in, in half a sec and see how it looks |
| 00:59.42 | alestane | Your base skin was Serenity as far as I can tell. |
| 01:01.46 | alestane | The highlight is designed with the intent of making her eyes and nose appear in the middle of the button you're hovering over. But I don't know enough about cyCircled to know just how to set it up. |
| 01:03.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge amro_ (n=chatzill@82.101.184.155) |
| 01:08.01 | Kaydeethree | wow... and the nightly ptr patch streak continues |
| 01:08.33 | alestane | Good thing I didn't download yesterday's patch then. |
| 01:08.46 | Kaydeethree | you'll need to. they're all incremental |
| 01:10.53 | Lunessa | Brought to you by General Mills... / Ragnar-Os! The only cereal with the Molten Core! / BY FIBER BE PURGED!! / TASTE THE FLAVORS OF SULFURON! / TWO SCOOPS, EXECUTUS! TWO SCOOPS! -- oy! |
| 01:12.51 | alestane | There was an image of that once. |
| 01:13.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cogwheel (n=chatzill@c-67-164-121-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:13.57 | Lunessa | I just saw that as a .sig and was amused enough to share. |
| 01:15.55 | Cidan | yeah |
| 01:15.59 | Cidan | I was just about to log in |
| 01:16.10 | Cidan | and they were all offline, :( |
| 01:16.16 | Cidan | how long 'til they are back up on avg? |
| 01:16.19 | Kaydeethree | 4-6 hours |
| 01:16.32 | alestane | Up to 7187 now. |
| 01:17.00 | Kaydeethree | that's current as of 30 minutes ago... next patch'll be in the 7190s I'm assuming |
| 01:22.25 | alestane | Just ran a diff on the tos, looks like the only real update is to include politeness/harassment restrictions on voice chat and indicate that voice chat may also be monitored and recorded. |
| 01:22.38 | alestane | EULA hasn't changed. |
| 01:25.09 | alestane | Anyone else getting PTR patches from their regular launcher? |
| 01:25.24 | cogwheel | yep |
| 01:25.27 | Kaydeethree | everyone is. that's the result of a bug in the first ptr build |
| 01:25.54 | Kaydeethree | the ptr on athlon machines instantly crashed, there was no way to get the patch for the next build |
| 01:27.07 | Shirik | lol |
| 01:27.10 | Shirik | gg. |
| 01:27.19 | Shirik | how can you distribute something that obvious |
| 01:27.36 | Shirik | or was it only in specific circumstances? |
| 01:28.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge _Saint-N (n=art3mis@pool-70-18-207-171.ny325.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:34.59 | clad|away | bestest thing ever: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=8D9F2E62FE3A46312DB098ACD4F36CAA?topicId=1230643896&sid=1 |
| 01:35.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Recluse (n=foo@adsl-71-145-181-27.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:36.24 | ales|wow | It's like a chain letter of ganking. |
| 01:36.32 | clad|away | i know, i love it |
| 01:36.47 | Lunessa | 'tehpvp gonz wildz!" |
| 01:36.48 | Mr_Rabies2 | there were bounty hunter clans in the original diablo |
| 01:37.07 | Mr_Rabies2 | someone would pay you in items to PK people |
| 01:37.11 | clad|away | Does anyone know anything about Asperger Syndrome? |
| 01:37.16 | Mr_Rabies2 | because gold was worthless |
| 01:37.28 | Mr_Rabies2 | i know people on the internet love to self-diagnose themselves with assburgers |
| 01:39.02 | Lunessa | Just what I read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome |
| 01:39.22 | clad|away | k.. didn't know if any had other experience with |
| 01:39.33 | cogwheel | sort of... |
| 01:40.34 | clad|away | My niece was originally diagnoses with autism spectrum disorder, but now they want to test her further for AS, which is one component of ASD |
| 01:40.48 | clad|away | Just trying to understand, so I can be supportive of my sister. This has all been very difficult on her. |
| 01:40.50 | Lunessa | I 'know' a few folks who claim to suffer it, but I'm not a doctor and I don't really see anything 'odd' about them. |
| 01:42.01 | Thrae | clad|away: I've been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. What do you want to know? |
| 01:42.29 | clad|away | I'm just trying to understand it |
| 01:42.36 | clad|away | getting more information, etc. |
| 01:43.06 | clad|away | the method of diagnosis seems to be a very hot topic, especially with children |
| 01:44.06 | art3mis | ales|wow: http://www.gothi.ca/Stuff/hellokitty-ui.jpg |
| 01:44.42 | cogwheel | omfg |
| 01:45.09 | Kaydeethree | killll! kill it now! |
| 01:45.12 | art3mis | ale made me cyCircled graphics ;P |
| 01:45.16 | ales|wow | That came out just about perfect. |
| 01:45.25 | art3mis | yup thats just a scaling issue |
| 01:45.35 | art3mis | just wanted to see if i mimiiced the format right |
| 01:45.45 | art3mis | but yeah thats awesome |
| 01:46.18 | art3mis | and i just need to scale it up to minimap size to apply it there as well |
| 01:46.47 | art3mis | switching back to a round map as well that is |
| 01:46.54 | Thrae | clad|away: Basically, Asperger's Syndrome is very mild autism, or a different form of high-functioning autism. There is low-functioning autism, where the person's IQ is less then 70, while suffers of Asperger's Syndrome are usually far higher in IQ. |
| 01:47.04 | ales|wow | If you hacked the textures together correctly, you'll notice a couple other things...action slots for items you have equipped should have whiskers on the buttons. And her eyes and nose should appear in the button you're moused over. |
| 01:48.02 | Lunessa | HelloKitty DIE DIE DIE |
| 01:48.03 | ales|wow | And yeah, see if you can tweak the placement so the action corners don't show through. |
| 01:48.22 | clad|away | Thrae: From what I've read, I don't see the "typical" AS symptoms in her, other than the social development issues that are seen with most forms of ASD, but perhaps her teachers see something different. |
| 01:48.40 | clad|away | Thrae: I'm going to keep reading, but I'll let you know if I have further questions.. appreciate the help! |
| 01:48.57 | art3mis | this is the most fun in wow iv'e had in a while |
| 01:49.12 | art3mis | i feel like Kel'thuzad in creating this abomination ;P |
| 01:50.14 | art3mis | luney: admit it, once this is done you're totally gonna use it ;P |
| 01:50.22 | Thrae | clad|away: I am a classic case of Asperger's Syndrome -- agoraphobia, high, painful anxiety, bipolar disorder, and depression have all been diagnosed and are being treated. It's the social awkwardness which is really the key for all forms of autism. |
| 01:50.44 | art3mis | ales|wow: yeah i looked at the graphics before hand, it's great! |
| 01:51.16 | clad|away | Thrae: Aye. |
| 01:52.01 | ales|wow | I am amused...even if it is an atrocity. |
| 01:52.27 | Thrae | clad|away: However, the medical community cannot agree on exactly what defines someone with Asperger's Syndrome, as it can encapsulate too many conditions. It's better to just consider it a mild case of autism with additional disorders along side it. Autism does not cause depression, anxiety, or bipolar disorder -- these disorders can just happen to coexist and lessen/worsen the effects of each other. |
| 01:52.42 | clad|away | Okay |
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| 01:53.53 | Thrae | clad|away: As children are in period of social maturity, it's very easy to see those that are not adapting well to their situation as having some type of social dysfunction, just like a hyperactive kid can have ADD. Hence you can see why it's a hot-topic for diagnosing kids. |
| 01:54.33 | Lunessa | art3mis: Totally. For like 1 day. |
| 01:54.33 | clad|away | Understood, but in this case she's already been diagnosed with autism spectrum, and they've been working with her for quite some time. They just called my sister a few days ago and said they want to test her further for AS. *shrug* |
| 01:55.15 | Thrae | Personally, I'm against such Freudian beliefs that a kid can be fully diagnosed by age 3. A child's brain is still developing, and there's emperical evidence that a disorder can change over time, even one psychological. |
| 01:55.20 | ales|wow | Oh, I would never actually run with it up. |
| 01:55.27 | Thrae | clad|away: How old is she? |
| 01:55.55 | clad|away | Five, I think. |
| 01:56.30 | Thrae | clad|away: Five is pretty young for an autistic diagnosis. How does she seem dysfunctional, if you don't mind me asking? |
| 01:57.07 | cogwheel|away | Yeah... i don't think kids that young could even be in enough situations to manifest definitive symptoms (and the symptoms themselves are vague enough as it is) |
| 01:57.15 | clad|away | Speech issues, understanding context primarily. Unfortunately she's spent most of her life across the country from me, so I don't have much information about what they have observed. |
| 01:57.51 | Thrae | "Speech issues" and "understanding context" are way too vague, yeah. She's freakin' five years old. |
| 01:58.04 | clad|away | yes, but developmentally she's quite far behind |
| 01:58.04 | Thrae | I didn't even talk until I was two, and then after that I spoke in whole sentences. |
| 01:58.17 | cogwheel|away | but then again, I am a bit biased... I feel that doctors are WAY over-diagnosing kids these days |
| 01:58.32 | Thrae | cogwheel|away: It's getting better |
| 01:58.33 | clad|away | I don't think its fair to diagnose her with AS right now, I agree they don't have the context to do that |
| 01:58.54 | clad|away | no one disputes the ASD diagnosis, the testing and observations that have been done have made it relatively easy to diagnose her with that, and get her some treatment that she needed (read: not drugs) |
| 01:59.38 | Thrae | clad|away: 5 is too young for drugs for any except the most severe cases of psychopathy |
| 01:59.53 | clad|away | hence why i'm glad they are working with her in other ways |
| 01:59.56 | Thrae | I think 8 or 9 is when drugs can be introduced for situations like depression, anxiety, etc. |
| 02:00.06 | Thrae | clad|away: I'm talking DSM here, they'd be breaking their oath |
| 02:00.13 | clad|away | aye |
| 02:00.44 | Thrae | Anyway, drugs wouldn't help for situations like speech and context issues unless they were anxiety related |
| 02:01.08 | Thrae | Which they could be if she has AS. However, she'd also have to show signs of this anxiety. |
| 02:02.19 | cog|away | I think i could use some anti-anxiety drugs... |
| 02:02.28 | clad|away | Yeah again, it's difficult to give more information when I have such little interaction with her. |
| 02:02.35 | Thrae | AS usually manifests with social anxiety and/or agoraphobia. You can also have additional anxiety of course, but if you don't have social anxiety, there's less chance you have AS. Then again, most of the autistic appear they have anxiety in social situations. |
| 02:03.22 | Thrae | However, if you are fully autistic, or especially low-functioning autistic, your fear is that you do not understand the situation, not a fear of embarassment. |
| 02:05.58 | Thrae | clad|away: You shouldn't fear autism. Most psychologists say now that a good portion of the technology industry is run by the autistic ;) |
| 02:06.11 | clad|away | I don't fear it at all, I think you're reading into my questions :P |
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| 02:06.30 | Thrae | I know, I'm just saying. |
| 02:06.44 | clad|away | Its my niece who has been diagnosed, and I want to be able to be supportive of my sister as she raises her, and my mother as she "deals" with being across the country. |
| 02:07.03 | clad|away | I don't want my niece to change at all, she has an amazing personality and sense of humor.. and I can't imagine her any other way :P |
| 02:07.59 | Tuller | Industrial: http://i17.tinypic.com/63rtr39.png I solved the fuzzy problem :) |
| 02:09.22 | cog|away | hmm... I think i have agoraphobia... |
| 02:09.46 | ales|wow | A nervousness or dread of being in open places? |
| 02:09.49 | Thrae | cog|away: I bet you'd look in the DSM and come away thinking you have 50% of what's in there. |
| 02:09.59 | cog|away | ales|wow: that's a misconception |
| 02:09.59 | clad|away | indeed |
| 02:10.22 | cog|away | Agoraphobics are not necessarily afraid of open spaces themselves, but more generally suffer panic attacks in response to the idea of being in an embarrassing or difficult situation where they are exposed to the world with no escape route, and no certainty of reassurance and help.[1] |
| 02:10.26 | cog|away | (wikipedia) |
| 02:10.45 | cog|away | When I'm in certain situations i really do have panic attacks. Sweating, blurred vision, |
| 02:11.14 | cog|away | Like halfway through a costco shopping trip especially when I see the lines at the checkout |
| 02:11.17 | ales|wow | Well, it literally means, "fear of the marketplace", but yes, I would say "fear of being unenclosed" or "fear or being exposed" are probably closer to the way it described. |
| 02:11.45 | cog|away | "with no escape route, and no certainty of reassurance and help." is the part that describes me in particular |
| 02:12.35 | Lunessa | tuller sexy - |
| 02:12.44 | Lunessa | what is that from? |
| 02:13.11 | clad|away | Tuller: very nice |
| 02:13.20 | cog|away | Thrae: re: the DSM, I've actually looked through quite a few problems (like GAD, panic disorder and others) and really didn't think they apply to me... |
| 02:13.27 | Tuller | combuctor stuff and thanks |
| 02:13.44 | Thrae | ales|wow: You need to differentiate agoraphobia with enochlophobia. |
| 02:14.00 | ales|wow | Well, I will say (not trying to invalidate your opinion) that I do not regard big-box stores as conducive to psychologically healthy reactions. |
| 02:14.29 | Thrae | cog|away: Well, have you seen a psychiatrist or at least a counselor about your panic attacks? |
| 02:14.41 | ales|wow | That was how it was originally described to me...apologies if my parents were misinformed, or if the psychological opinion has been refined since then. |
| 02:14.56 | cog|away | Thrae: it's one of those things I've "intended" to do for a while :| |
| 02:15.24 | cog|away | ales|wow: agreed re: big box stores... I get that way in quite a variety of situations though |
| 02:16.03 | cog|away | driving behind someone going 5 mph below the speed limit with no one in front of them....... Going around in circles with someone in an argument.... |
| 02:16.12 | Thrae | cog|away: I've far, far enough tests on my own body to say I feel better with drugs. You should look into at least starting out with a counselor. As I've always said to myself and others, if you're not actively seeking happiness, there's probably something wrong with you ;) |
| 02:16.55 | cog|away | I know i know... i have family members being treated for depression and anxiety disorders :P |
| 02:17.08 | ales|wow | cog|away: wasn't trying to say it meant there was nothing you should worry about...just that I wouldn't use that situation as your particular barometer. The designers sometimes even do it on purpose to a certain extent. |
| 02:17.47 | Thrae | cog|away: One of the main reasons I quit my last job is because I had to drive about 100+ miles per day, and I just couldn't stand it anymore. Most times I would be fine, but some days I would be super-pissed off at everything and even make mistakes I wouldn't normally make. When I first started out driving, I had a few very close calls. |
| 02:18.01 | ales|wow | A certain insecurity level supposedly breeds careless spending. |
| 02:18.23 | Thrae | ales|wow: I'm insecure and extremely frugal. |
| 02:18.27 | cog|away | I was raised by people who are very ... skeptical about "western medicine" so I've always been a bit biased against drugs... I've gotten over most of that in regards to my opinions about other people but i haven't really put it into practice for myself |
| 02:18.59 | cog|away | I didn't even go to the hospital after my first car wreck when i injured my wrist... |
| 02:19.20 | cog|away | I just got a hand-me-down wrist brace from someone with CTS and called it good |
| 02:19.44 | Thrae | cog|away: You don't have to take drugs, even if you go see a psychiatrist. It's not like they have magickal hypnotic powers to make you do what they think you should do. If you're worried you're just that submissive to the ideas of others, that's another problem right there. |
| 02:19.47 | ales|wow | cog|away: speaking from my experiences with my wife and her depression/ADD diagnoses, I will say that understanding yourself does wonders. It's not a perfect solution but it's a huge step forward in feeling better about your life. |
| 02:20.40 | Thrae | cog|away: If you believe God will cure all that ails, then I can't help you there. |
| 02:20.46 | cog|away | haha |
| 02:21.01 | cog|away | no... they were hippies, not christian scientists :P |
| 02:21.02 | Thrae | It's not about believing or not believing in treatment. It's about TRYING everything you possibly can to become as happy as possible. |
| 02:21.19 | Thrae | Well if they were hippies, why aren't you smoking pot? That should clear some anxiety too. |
| 02:21.25 | cog|away | <.< |
| 02:21.27 | cog|away | >.> |
| 02:21.34 | cog|away | <.< |
| 02:21.42 | ales|wow | Thrae: I'm not sure I subscribe to the insecurity theory, but it's a common belief in marketing psychology, or was at one point. |
| 02:21.45 | Thrae | If you are smoking pot and STILL have anxiety, then that's a serious problem right there. |
| 02:21.50 | clad|away | lol |
| 02:22.17 | cog|away | hmm... i live in CA... might be able to get a Rx :P |
| 02:22.50 | Thrae | ales|wow: It depends on what type of insecurity. Materialistic insecurities will generally lead to impulse purchases, sure. |
| 02:23.42 | ales|wow | Cannabis doesn't really have a single defined effect on one's mood or psyche...it tends to take the wheels off whatever you're currently feeling. Based on my admittedly anecdotal evidence I would not advise it in situations of anxiety. It could just as easily magnify it into paranoia (while it lasted) as make you feel more laid-back. |
| 02:24.20 | cog|away | YMMV and all |
| 02:24.33 | ales|wow | "YMMV"? |
| 02:24.38 | Thrae | cog|away's type of anxiety usually does not manifest into paranoia unless there's a possibility of manic episodes |
| 02:24.39 | cog|away | your mileage may vary |
| 02:25.06 | cog|away | I just can't bring myself to being stoned in public... |
| 02:25.08 | Thrae | cog|away: Does your anxiety increase your energy level, decrease it, or make it stay about the same? |
| 02:25.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Adys|sleep (i=Adys@APoitiers-257-1-68-19.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 02:25.40 | ales|wow | Yes, but our understanding of psychoactive substances in general is so limited that it becomes very hard to predict things reliably when they get involved. |
| 02:25.41 | cog|away | Thrae: a superposition of both... on the one hand i feel hyper but on the other i get kind of woozy and detached |
| 02:25.46 | Thrae | s/make it about the same/no effect that you can tell/ |
| 02:26.25 | Thrae | cog|away: Yeah, that's not panic or mania. That's generalized anxiety. |
| 02:26.45 | Thrae | I have bipolar disorder. I've been in manic states. You have energy. LOTS of energy. Think you just drank 1000 cups of coffee. |
| 02:27.05 | cog|away | yeah... i never feel 'doomed' or anything... i was reading about panic disorder and it didn't describe me at all |
| 02:27.11 | Thrae | Mania can also easily create paranoia due to your hightened state. But generalized anxiety, less so. |
| 02:27.40 | cog|away | but generalized anxiety didn't seem to fit either ... i never really feel generally worried or stressed |
| 02:27.45 | cog|away | it's all very specific |
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| 02:28.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cog|away (n=chatzill@c-67-164-121-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:28.42 | cog|away | moo... CTRL-W is right next to CTRL-V on my KB |
| 02:28.50 | cog|away | "People with agoraphobia may experience panic attacks in situations where they feel trapped, insecure, out of control, or too far from their personal comfort zone" <--- describes me pretty much exactly |
| 02:29.08 | cog|away | (again from the wikipedia agoraphobia article) |
| 02:29.21 | Thrae | cog|away: That's more easily caused by a combination of bipolar disorder and an anxiety disorder, like I have -- I am anxious in some situations, then I am hyper-anxious when I am manic. Then sometimes I am just manic, without really being anxious. |
| 02:29.40 | Thrae | cog|away: Generalized anxiety is more of a symptom, not a disorder itself. |
| 02:30.10 | cog|away | TBQH, I think my little "episode" when the 2.0 changes were announced was the same thing... I felt trapped because I didn't feel like i was getting through to anyone :P |
| 02:30.31 | Thrae | You mean getting through to Blizzard? |
| 02:30.39 | cog|away | no... to the people who were whining |
| 02:31.12 | Thrae | Well, that's more of an insecurity |
| 02:31.31 | Thrae | Which can cause an anxious feeling, but it has a different cause and different symptoms |
| 02:32.07 | cog|away | it's hard to describe ... i do think it was the same kind of thing... |
| 02:32.19 | Lunessa | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1371407824&sid=1 - I expect I may have been a tad mean. |
| 02:32.36 | Thrae | I want to help as many people as I can, and I used to feel horrible when I didn't seem to be getting through to them, then I felt worse when I was told I was autistic and maybe that's why I have trouble getting through to people...then I got into tech support and found I could communicate fine, it's just that most people are stupid. |
| 02:33.09 | Thrae | So, once you learn that most people are stupid, stubborn, egotistical hedonists, you understand why you can't always get through to them. |
| 02:33.13 | cog|away | exactly... and dealing with stupid people makes me feel trapped... |
| 02:33.37 | Thrae | Well, that's when I call to a Higher Power. |
| 02:33.39 | Lunessa | If the average IQ ranges at about 100, and most of the people I know are in the 140-150 range... then where are all those morons bringing down the average? :P |
| 02:33.52 | Thrae | And ask them to kill the stupid people. |
| 02:34.07 | cog|away | Texas |
| 02:34.26 | Thrae | I think you mean Arkansas, with their low test scores :D |
| 02:34.40 | Thrae | People in Texas are smarter then you think...because the stupid ones get shot |
| 02:35.02 | Thrae | There's something to be said for Libertarianism. |
| 02:35.49 | Lunessa | no sh!t? |
| 02:36.05 | Thrae | I mean, how can Texas be dumb, they elected George W. Bush as Governor. |
| 02:36.42 | Thrae | ckknight: You're a hedonist though ;) |
| 02:36.59 | ckknight | only because you like to put words in my mouth |
| 02:37.08 | Thunder_Child | not owning a firearm in an easy to get state!! |
| 02:37.24 | Thrae | ~emulate ckknight |
| 02:37.25 | purl | <@ckknight>suck it, biatches |
| 02:37.32 | Cidan | lol |
| 02:37.36 | Cidan | that's great. |
| 02:37.37 | Thrae | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:37.54 | ckknight | just because I believe in self-interest doesn't make me a hedonist |
| 02:38.08 | cog|away | ckknight: objectivist? |
| 02:38.16 | ckknight | pretty much |
| 02:38.17 | Thrae | Some so-called Libertarians are simply hedonists. |
| 02:38.48 | cog|away | heh... "pretty much objectivist" is exactly how i described myself to someone recently :P |
| 02:39.22 | ckknight | don a kilt recently, Lunessa? |
| 02:39.23 | Lunessa | I'd be a libertarian if the people proclaiming to lead the 'party' weren't tools. |
| 02:39.33 | Lunessa | ckknight: I own two kilts. |
| 02:39.34 | ckknight | Ron Paul ftw? |
| 02:39.38 | ckknight | :-P |
| 02:39.46 | Cidan | I think war is stupid, I think racial hatred will never end, and I think when it comes down to it, the earth will be JUST FINE no matter what -- It's humans that will suffer. |
| 02:39.46 | Thrae | Lunessa: You can be a Libertarian and just not associate yourself with some people that claim they have a party |
| 02:40.39 | Lunessa | Thrae: I register as an 'independent' and vote as I see fit, holding to my personal ideals. |
| 02:40.51 | Thrae | I register as a Communist and vote Democrat. |
| 02:40.54 | Lunessa | Then I wash my hands when I leave the voting booth and have a drink. |
| 02:41.05 | cog|away | I think every democrat should register as republican for the primaries and vote for Ron Paul |
| 02:41.19 | Kaydeethree | part of me wants going to vote to work like the russians did it |
| 02:41.20 | Lunessa | Ron Jeremy for President. |
| 02:41.23 | Kaydeethree | vodka-fests |
| 02:42.13 | cog|away | ah yes |
| 02:42.18 | ckknight | Thrae: do you? |
| 02:42.23 | cog|away | i knew who he was but didn't remember the name :P |
| 02:42.48 | Thrae | Do I what? |
| 02:42.48 | ckknight | Lunessa: I know who he is :-P |
| 02:42.51 | Lunessa | Heh, saw him one night, passed out in a booth at Canter's Deli - at like 4:30am |
| 02:42.54 | ckknight | Thrae: register as a communist |
| 02:43.00 | Thrae | ckknight: No |
| 02:43.04 | cog|away | saw a documentary about him on HBO once >< |
| 02:43.07 | ckknight | alright |
| 02:43.37 | Thrae | I really register as an Anarchist |
| 02:44.29 | Lunessa | Amazing - so many differing political views in one channel, and no fighting yet. |
| 02:44.33 | cog|away | I flip-flop between anarchist (in the anarcho-capitalist sense, not the zomg every man for himself sense) and minarchist |
| 02:44.52 | cog|away | but was raised pretty much communist |
| 02:45.03 | cog|away | then i took an economics class |
| 02:45.04 | Thrae | Actually, I am anti-anarcho-capitalism |
| 02:45.22 | Thrae | I want a little bit more structure then that |
| 02:45.35 | ckknight | cog|away: I'd consider myself a minarchist |
| 02:46.18 | cog|away | yeah... even after years of reading their literature, there are some ideas i just can't reconcile within myself about anarcho-capitalism |
| 02:47.26 | Thrae | Well, I guess it depends on how you define anarcho-capitalism. In some definitions, I'm all for it. |
| 02:48.04 | cog|away | This about sums it up for me http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/30-day-plan.html |
| 02:48.26 | Thrae | Stupid Legislative branch. God gave us 10 Commandments, our Fore-Fathers gave us the Constitution, we don't need 10000 laws telling us how to interpret the constitution -- that's what the courts are for. |
| 02:49.19 | ckknight | ooh: People who choose not to vote need not pay it. (Note: this was a mainstream view in the 19th century.) |
| 02:49.21 | ckknight | I like it |
| 02:50.18 | Thrae | That's what f'ed up Judism in the first place -- adding 1000 more commandments, then came along Christianity and simplified it into 1 Golden Rule. You don't need 1000 things the State or God tells you to do or not to do. We're not idiots. Well, 1% are not idiots. The rest are on their own. |
| 02:50.47 | ckknight | Judaism |
| 02:51.02 | Thrae | I typed faster then my internal spellchecker allowed. |
| 02:51.15 | ckknight | but yea, Judaism did have a whole bunch of rules |
| 02:51.40 | ckknight | then again, that's what Judaism (Orthodox) is for |
| 02:51.42 | ckknight | it's about doing things |
| 02:51.44 | Thrae | I'm not trying to be anti-semetic, just using it as an example of how society favours simplicity. |
| 02:51.44 | ckknight | following rules |
| 02:51.59 | ckknight | visiting the sick, giving to the poor |
| 02:52.02 | ckknight | all that |
| 02:52.04 | ckknight | belief is secondary |
| 02:52.14 | Thrae | Orthodox Christianity...or just Catholicism...also has a huge bunch of rules |
| 02:52.29 | Thrae | Hell, Catholicism even has the Seven Deadly Sins of Driving now |
| 02:52.50 | cog|away | heh |
| 02:55.50 | Lunessa | cog|away: Read the article. While I find somethings quite laudable in it, others invoke skepticism. |
| 02:56.23 | cog|away | Lunessa: libertarianism is hard to swallow at first... we take a lot of things for granted... |
| 02:56.42 | cog|away | but yeah... there are a few things that still rub me the wrong way |
| 02:58.12 | ckknight | Lunessa: article? |
| 02:58.37 | Lunessa | Mostly I'm for the idea of "government should be for defense, and international trade. It should leave citizens the hell alone, and not take their land or money." But I also recognize that there are functions that probably will never work well in the private sector because frankly, consumers are fucking stupid. |
| 02:58.49 | cog|away | international trade IS interfering |
| 02:58.50 | Lunessa | ckknight: http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/30-day-plan.html |
| 02:59.07 | ckknight | oh, yea |
| 03:00.18 | cog|away | but yeah... in some cases i say let them be stupid :P |
| 03:00.35 | Lunessa | cog|away: I refer to the government role in trade mostly on the basis of not letting other governments steamroll citizen's/corporate trade because they have guns. |
| 03:01.02 | cog|away | gotcha |
| 03:01.36 | Lunessa | Hard to make a profit on bananas when the local army marches in and takes the farm. |
| 03:02.16 | ckknight | I'm still not sure how one would handle natural monopolies |
| 03:02.20 | Lunessa | And I'm not sure how well people would be educated if there wasn't immediate profit in it. |
| 03:02.57 | cog|away | ckknight: same... but when you think about it, there are FAR more unnatural monopolies created by, let alone sanctioned by the government |
| 03:03.04 | ckknight | oh, I agree |
| 03:03.23 | Lunessa | I can't imagine for a second my parents would ever have been able to pay for education for me if public education didn't exist. |
| 03:03.30 | Lunessa | Cable companies anyone? |
| 03:03.48 | cog|away | your parents did pay for your education... |
| 03:03.57 | Kaydeethree | taxes hi! |
| 03:03.59 | ckknight | well, if public education didn't exist, you wouldn't have to pay into the DoE |
| 03:04.01 | cog|away | and way to much if i say so myself |
| 03:04.21 | ckknight | cog|away: for overall, haphazard education |
| 03:04.33 | cog|away | in california 50% of our tax money goes to schools and they are still some of the shittiest in the country |
| 03:04.34 | ckknight | and I should know: I live in Hawaii, proud to be 49th in education. |
| 03:05.01 | |Jelly| | My best friend's in his student teaching phase of becoming a teacher. I went to a couple of his classes with him and let me tell you, I'm scared of "the future of America" because 95% of the people becoming teachers are retards. |
| 03:05.33 | cog|away | in a free market, teachers would have to compete for jobs, schools would have to compete for students, etc. |
| 03:05.41 | ckknight | that'd be nice |
| 03:05.44 | cog|away | prices would go down, quality would go up |
| 03:05.55 | ckknight | I mean, we have it in America now, but it's a 2-tiered system (public and private) |
| 03:06.04 | ckknight | because of the multi-tiering, it complicates matters |
| 03:06.23 | cog|away | yeah... Why should i pay to send my kid to private school AND pay to send your kid to public? |
| 03:06.32 | ckknight | that I don't know |
| 03:06.41 | ckknight | oh, wait, I do |
| 03:06.43 | sioraiocht | wait, who is for total free market education? |
| 03:06.55 | ckknight | it's so illegal immigrants can send their kids to public schools |
| 03:07.04 | sioraiocht | ckknight: you're a fucking moron |
| 03:07.12 | ckknight | sioraiocht: I believe in the separation between school and state. |
| 03:07.12 | Lunessa | cog|away: Sounds good in principle. The execution frightens me. |
| 03:07.45 | ckknight | sioraiocht: I mostly said that as an extreme case |
| 03:07.48 | cog|away | charities would be much better equipped to step in if it weren't subsidized by government. |
| 03:07.52 | ales|wow | cog|away: Because it is in your interests and those of your children for his children to also have a basic education. |
| 03:07.56 | Lunessa | cog|away: No, I agree. I've paid a lot, and I mean a LOT of taxes. |
| 03:08.14 | sioraiocht | ckknight: a lot of those same illegal immigrants are part of the backbone of the economy. You can blame the American gov't for refusing entrance in a xenophobic manner that you will rarely vfind elswhere in the Western world |
| 03:08.14 | cog|away | ales|wow: why is it up to someone else to determine what's in my best interest, though? |
| 03:08.27 | cog|away | I donate to charities for that exact reason |
| 03:08.33 | ckknight | sioraiocht: btw, I'm an immigrant ;-) |
| 03:08.52 | Lunessa | I've also been a teacher in a private school that did educational rehab; teaching people to read that the public system failed. And it was hard to convince people to pay for that service. |
| 03:08.56 | sioraiocht | cog|away: because you can't be trusted to do anything that's not in YOUR and ONLY YOUR best interest |
| 03:09.04 | cog|away | so? |
| 03:09.05 | ckknight | cog|away: I tend to work for charities on the weekends |
| 03:09.16 | sioraiocht | and if everyone was entitled to work only in their own self-interest, there would, quite literally, be anarchy |
| 03:09.24 | ckknight | I don't believe in positive rights. |
| 03:09.31 | cog|away | sioraiocht: so? |
| 03:09.39 | cog|away | you say that like it's a bad thing :P |
| 03:09.40 | ckknight | yea, what's the issue with that, sioraiocht? |
| 03:09.46 | ckknight | seems nice. |
| 03:10.18 | sioraiocht | the prosperity you enjoy is due to the fact that we as citizens must pay our dues back to society |
| 03:10.24 | cog|away | sioraiocht: it's precisely BECAUSE of self-interest that america is the richest country in the world |
| 03:10.32 | Lunessa | sioraiocht: I disagree with you in principle. You infer that my interests aren't served by assisting others, or that in fact no one's interest is so served. |
| 03:10.44 | ckknight | sioraiocht: why isn't Cuba so great, then? their citizens pay back into their society |
| 03:10.47 | AnduinLothar | Lunessa: the edu system 'fails' tallented children too. |
| 03:10.57 | Lunessa | AnduinLothar: I know it does. |
| 03:11.02 | cog|away | AnduinLothar: which is why i removed myself from it :P |
| 03:11.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:11.03 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 03:11.15 | sioraiocht | ckknight: they have some awesome healthcare =p and welfare states in scandavia are just as effective without repressing political dissidents |
| 03:11.16 | ckknight | 10x as much is spent on special needs children than it is on gifted childern |
| 03:11.18 | ckknight | children* |
| 03:11.24 | cog|away | sioraiocht: the prosperity i enjoy is because my boss wants to make more money and needs me to run his website |
| 03:11.28 | Lunessa | I'm just saying that providing educational services isn't cheap, and it's hard to convince people it's worth paying for. |
| 03:11.31 | sioraiocht | Lunessa: how about this: you can't be expected to recognise that helping others is in your best interest |
| 03:11.44 | ckknight | no they don't, sioraiocht, that's a myth. The visitor's hospitals are great, the citizen's are horrible |
| 03:12.00 | cog|away | sioraiocht: there was an article debunking the superiority of scandanavian healthcare |
| 03:12.11 | cog|away | in terms of effectiveness and responsiveness, the US was #1 |
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| 03:12.18 | sioraiocht | cog|away: for people that can pay for it |
| 03:12.21 | Lunessa | sioraiocht: So, someone else has to be appointed to do that for me, or to force me to act in a manner that is in other's interests? That way leads to totalitarianism. |
| 03:12.23 | ckknight | you gotta have the money, though |
| 03:12.26 | ckknight | which is not necessarily bad |
| 03:12.31 | ckknight | sioraiocht: why is that bad? |
| 03:12.32 | cog|away | it's only when the arbitrarily-defined "fairness" that the US suffers |
| 03:12.44 | ckknight | sioraiocht: why should others steal my money in order to treat themselves? |
| 03:12.45 | sioraiocht | Lunessa: no it doesn't, only if that's the sole naive principle which you follow, there are others, of course |
| 03:12.55 | sioraiocht | ckknight: no one steals your money |
| 03:12.59 | ckknight | yes they do |
| 03:13.02 | sioraiocht | how? |
| 03:13.04 | sioraiocht | pls explain |
| 03:13.05 | ckknight | in the form of taxes |
| 03:13.07 | Lunessa | Oh my. We have touched a sore point, haven't we? |
| 03:13.10 | cog|away | sioraiocht: have you ever tried not paying taxes? |
| 03:13.15 | cog|away | they come with guns, you know |
| 03:13.21 | ckknight | if you don't pay taxes, you go to jail |
| 03:13.23 | Lunessa | And jail terms. |
| 03:13.26 | ckknight | by force, if necessary |
| 03:13.31 | sioraiocht | cog|away: I know very fucking well what happens when you dont' pay taxes, my father went to jail for three years |
| 03:13.35 | ckknight | therefore, if you take my money by force, I call that stealing |
| 03:14.03 | cog|away | sioraiocht: if you have 10 neighbors and they come to your house and take all your money, is that not stealing? |
| 03:14.05 | sioraiocht | I can't believe I rose to this bait, I made no friends, but you all are either engaging in intellectual masturbation, or you actually believe the bullshit you spout |
| 03:14.06 | kadrahil | ugh |
| 03:14.11 | kadrahil | 290-300 JC is going to suck |
| 03:14.35 | cog|away | i was raised to think like him :( I was having a good time debating |
| 03:15.03 | ckknight | me too |
| 03:15.05 | clad|away | he wasn't raised to think like that.. he's done extensive amounts of thinking on his own.. making his own opinions, not subscribing to bullshit from someone else. |
| 03:15.16 | cog|away | good for him :) |
| 03:15.22 | ckknight | I used to be a die-hard socialist :-P |
| 03:15.23 | cog|away | that's exactly how I arrived at my conclusions |
| 03:15.29 | Lunessa | the guilty do speak loudly in accusation. You claim we believe "bs" and we could make the same claim. No need to violent or rude in discussing what is essentially an intellectual exercise. |
| 03:15.39 | ckknight | then I kinda figured out that politicians are lame and can't be trusted |
| 03:15.52 | ckknight | at least with corporate overlordship, I can buy from who I want and invest in who I want |
| 03:16.02 | ckknight | so I saw it as the lesser of two evils |
| 03:16.12 | cog|away | I, for one, welcome our new corporate overlords :) |
| 03:16.18 | ckknight | pretty much |
| 03:16.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge sioraiocht (n=rtharper@cpe-74-79-41-65.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 03:16.35 | ckknight | I don't like the corporate welfare state we have now |
| 03:16.39 | ckknight | end corporate welfare! |
| 03:16.44 | cog|away | srsly |
| 03:17.05 | *** part/#wowi-lounge sioraiocht (n=rtharper@cpe-74-79-41-65.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 03:17.08 | ckknight | ... |
| 03:17.19 | Lunessa | One year, towards the end of the 90s I paid a lump sum of income tax greater than the amount of money I ever thought I'd see at once. |
| 03:17.22 | |Jelly| | Logged back in to see if anyone was talking about him. |
| 03:17.35 | Lunessa | And what did I get for it? NOTHING |
| 03:19.18 | Lunessa | So, yeah, color me cynical of our current welfare state. But I'm not ready to dismantle all parts of it yet. :) |
| 03:19.49 | cog|away | :) |
| 03:20.07 | ckknight | yea, trying to tear it all down would be drastic |
| 03:20.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge sioraiocht (n=rtharper@cpe-74-79-41-65.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 03:20.27 | cog|away | What we really need is some more habitable land-mass to do a great libertarian experiment. Why wax poetic when we can do empirical testing :) |
| 03:20.49 | Lunessa | I'd go there. :D |
| 03:20.51 | cog|away | sort of what the states were supposed to do |
| 03:21.01 | cog|away | but the federal government took too much power from them |
| 03:21.39 | Lunessa | For example, I still want government bankruptcy protections. |
| 03:21.51 | cog|away | not me... |
| 03:22.03 | cog|away | especially if i'm the one loaning you money :P |
| 03:22.09 | Lunessa | Heh. |
| 03:22.21 | Lunessa | I still want there to be a financial "reset" button. |
| 03:22.25 | cog|away | i'm all for personal responsibility |
| 03:22.39 | cog|away | I honestly consider bankruptcy stealing |
| 03:22.52 | ckknight | I am too, but sometimes giving people a second chance is worthwhile |
| 03:22.55 | ckknight | I mean, look at Apple |
| 03:22.59 | AnduinLothar | I wanna see a country that promotes heavy saving and discourages credit |
| 03:23.09 | cog|away | yep |
| 03:23.17 | cog|away | FairTax would go a long way towards that |
| 03:23.22 | Iriel | Bankruptcy is a tricky one, I understand the need but I think it's too easy |
| 03:23.23 | Lunessa | So am I. But I don't want you to be able to come after me in the event my business folds, and everything goes kaput. No debotr's prison or indenture, m'kay? |
| 03:23.32 | sioraiocht | Iriel: it's really not easy, have you ever filed it? =p |
| 03:23.53 | sioraiocht | It destroys your ability to operate in any other terms than cash for the next ten years =[ |
| 03:23.55 | Iriel | I haven't but I know people who have and dont seem to be any worse off a couple of years later |
| 03:24.07 | sioraiocht | Iriel: they definitely are |
| 03:24.08 | Iriel | I'm not sure that's the case for most folks |
| 03:24.11 | cog|away | personal bankruptcy is a bit different than corporate |
| 03:24.18 | Iriel | Maybe 'many' not 'most' |
| 03:24.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge PProvost__ (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 03:24.45 | sioraiocht | AnduinLothar: That calls for a regressive tax, BTW |
| 03:24.56 | cog|away | sioraiocht: not really |
| 03:25.04 | sioraiocht | cog|away: how else do you encourage savings? |
| 03:25.05 | Lunessa | Like I said, it's a thing I don't want to see get tossed out. But I do think income tax and welfare payments have to GO. |
| 03:25.11 | ckknight | down with progressive taxes! |
| 03:25.13 | cog|away | switching from an income tax to a consumption tax |
| 03:25.23 | cog|away | whether it's progressive, regressive, or flat |
| 03:25.25 | ckknight | cog|away: I love that idea :-P |
| 03:25.25 | sioraiocht | cog|away: that IS a regressive tax |
| 03:25.33 | ckknight | cog|away: flat = regressive |
| 03:25.33 | cog|away | sioraiocht: no it's not... |
| 03:25.35 | cog|away | not at all |
| 03:25.39 | ckknight | I thought |
| 03:25.41 | ckknight | maybe I'm confused |
| 03:25.44 | Lunessa | progressive taxation is ... well, socialism. |
| 03:25.48 | ckknight | yes, Lunessa |
| 03:26.02 | cog|away | sioraiocht: check out the the fairtax |
| 03:26.12 | cog|away | it's ever-so-slightly progressive |
| 03:26.13 | ckknight | consumption taxes can be seen as either regressive or proportional |
| 03:26.15 | Lunessa | Straight out of Das Kapital. |
| 03:26.24 | ckknight | but more likely regressive, because poor people spend more |
| 03:26.27 | ckknight | whereas rich people invest |
| 03:26.30 | cog|away | Basically you live tax-free up to the poverty point |
| 03:26.57 | ckknight | granted, rich people buy more luxuries |
| 03:27.04 | cog|away | which allows you to save and invest more while still maintaining a base standard of living |
| 03:27.16 | sioraiocht | cog|away: that still puts the tax burden on the middle class |
| 03:27.25 | cog|away | it puts the tax burden on everyone... |
| 03:27.33 | cog|away | money doesn't just sit and do nothing... |
| 03:27.38 | cog|away | rich people buy stuff |
| 03:27.43 | ckknight | yea, money that sits is worthless |
| 03:27.47 | ckknight | it must flow |
| 03:28.00 | sioraiocht | cog|away: but they spend a much lesser proportion of their DI than less wealthy people |
| 03:28.00 | ckknight | rich people also give to charity |
| 03:28.06 | ckknight | and invest, creating business opportunities |
| 03:28.08 | cog|away | in fact right now, if you have a net worth of a billion dollars and don't work , you're considered poor by the government and don't pay taxes |
| 03:28.23 | cog|away | sioraiocht: exactly why they have the rebate |
| 03:28.31 | sioraiocht | cog|away: yes, if it's all in cash.. |
| 03:28.50 | cog|away | sioraiocht: what about roth? |
| 03:29.07 | Lunessa | re-distribution of wealth through taxation is just a way of saying "take from the rich guys, give to the other guys" - no matter how you pretty it up, it still stinks. |
| 03:29.16 | sioraiocht | Lunessa: are you wealthy? |
| 03:29.21 | Lunessa | I was. |
| 03:29.41 | cog|away | enron? |
| 03:29.43 | cog|away | :P |
| 03:29.51 | ckknight | corporate welfare ahoy |
| 03:30.02 | sioraiocht | Lunessa: I am, as is my family. I have no objection to the 44% tax bracket |
| 03:30.17 | cog|away | good for you... pay 44% of your income to charities imo |
| 03:30.25 | Tain | No taxation without representation! |
| 03:30.26 | cog|away | but don't tell me what i should do with my 44% |
| 03:30.38 | Lunessa | cog - I made a pile in the 90s. 9/11, a cheating woman with a taste for my money, and a failed business wiped me out. |
| 03:30.43 | sioraiocht | cog|away: Roth IRA earnings have already been taxed |
| 03:30.51 | ckknight | Lunessa: ouchies |
| 03:30.54 | sioraiocht | cog|away: you pay taxes on antyhing higher than the contribution value |
| 03:31.09 | Lunessa | my '99 income taxes... 3.2 million |
| 03:31.12 | cog|away | hmm... mistaken example... |
| 03:31.37 | cog|away | but anyway, the fairtax is most definitely progressive... It's not *as* progressive as our current system, but it's very much not regressive |
| 03:31.37 | Lunessa | I still hurt over that. |
| 03:32.02 | sioraiocht | cog|away: it's progressive on consumption, there's no definitive proof it would be so on overall income |
| 03:32.11 | cog|away | so? |
| 03:32.16 | sioraiocht | Lunessa: did you mind paying taxes? |
| 03:32.17 | cog|away | what's the point of income if you don't consume? |
| 03:32.49 | ckknight | cog|away: there is no point |
| 03:32.55 | ckknight | :-P |
| 03:32.59 | sioraiocht | cog|away: the point is that, at the end of the day, you are still playing the tax burden on those that spend a higher proportion of hteir income, which is inevitably the lower classes |
| 03:33.01 | Lunessa | sioraiocht: Yes, when roughly 54% of ever dollar I earned went to state and federal taxes. |
| 03:33.36 | Lunessa | And... on that note, I must take my no-longer-rich self to get food and go home. |
| 03:33.44 | cog|away | enjoy :) |
| 03:33.49 | Lunessa | See ya |
| 03:33.51 | sioraiocht | ckknight: yes there is, it's called savings and investment |
| 03:33.55 | cog|away | sioraiocht: which gives people an incentive to save |
| 03:34.00 | cog|away | and educate themselves |
| 03:34.03 | ckknight | if Lunessa was so successful, why should he not have the right to his profits? |
| 03:34.12 | ckknight | or anyone who is successful |
| 03:34.14 | sioraiocht | cog|away: if you have the money to save, which the lower classes don't |
| 03:34.50 | cog|away | which, again, is why people living at or below poverty wouldn't be taxed |
| 03:34.58 | ckknight | nobody asks how much money I make :-( |
| 03:35.04 | cog|away | how much do you make ckknight ? |
| 03:35.06 | cog|away | :P |
| 03:35.07 | sioraiocht | ckknight: they do. but unless they want to build their own roads, fund their own law enforcement, and subsidise their own agricultural system, they can keep ALL of it |
| 03:35.09 | ckknight | I don't make money |
| 03:35.26 | cog|away | sioraiocht: sounds like a plan |
| 03:35.27 | ckknight | I do random construction work and go to the state university |
| 03:35.38 | ckknight | oh man, that'd be awesome, sioraiocht |
| 03:35.41 | cog|away | toll roads and private security 4tw |
| 03:35.44 | ckknight | totally. |
| 03:35.51 | cog|away | agricultural subsidies 4tl |
| 03:35.53 | ckknight | and hey, we already have a big securities industry |
| 03:36.16 | sioraiocht | ckknight, cog|away , and then what happens when someone gets hurt on your roads if they are improperly maintained toll roads? |
| 03:36.22 | sioraiocht | you eventually end up with regulation |
| 03:36.24 | ckknight | they can be sued. |
| 03:36.26 | cog|away | they sue |
| 03:36.30 | ckknight | by the people who own the roads. |
| 03:36.33 | ckknight | err |
| 03:36.39 | ckknight | suing the people who own the roads. |
| 03:36.46 | sioraiocht | so litigiousness is the only governance of what is right and wrong? |
| 03:36.53 | cog|away | works for me |
| 03:36.59 | ckknight | yea, pretty much |
| 03:37.02 | ckknight | it's a big deterrent |
| 03:37.05 | ckknight | also: |
| 03:37.16 | ckknight | if one road is notorious for being unsafe, someone could make their own |
| 03:37.20 | ckknight | and charge their own rate |
| 03:37.22 | cog|away | yep |
| 03:37.27 | cog|away | competition + liability = win |
| 03:37.38 | ckknight | also, if we relied on the police so much, why are there private investigators and why are there private security cameras and alarms and all that? |
| 03:37.56 | |Jelly| | And why did my stereo get stolen? :P |
| 03:37.56 | ckknight | we can't rely on the police for everything, I don't see why we should have to at all |
| 03:38.21 | ckknight | |Jelly|: because the quasi-socialistic government we live in bred criminality into the hearts of the downtrodden |
| 03:38.31 | cog|away | sioraiocht: in order to stay in business, the companies that own the roads would be forced to cater to the whims of their customers |
| 03:38.37 | cog|away | something we can't say for the government |
| 03:38.49 | cog|away | (and no, voting for a state legislator doesn't count) |
| 03:38.57 | sioraiocht | cog|away: and in the mean time people get hurt and die, because of the lag in the laissez faire market |
| 03:39.04 | ckknight | lag's not too bad. |
| 03:39.14 | cog|away | *cough* minnesota bridge collapse |
| 03:39.18 | ckknight | and the companies would get sued horribly in the end |
| 03:39.20 | cog|away | *cough* bay bridge 1989 |
| 03:39.27 | cog|away | *cough* tacoma narrows |
| 03:39.27 | ckknight | so it becomes economically infeasible to have dangerous roads. |
| 03:39.39 | sioraiocht | ckknight: and you find the victims in the meantime acceptable? |
| 03:39.42 | ckknight | all you gotta do is make it economically infeasible to do something and it won't happen. |
| 03:39.45 | sioraiocht | that's purely sociopathic |
| 03:39.46 | Tain | Awww.. people discussing politics and social reform are so cute. |
| 03:39.51 | cog|away | sioraiocht: you act like there are no victims of government |
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| 03:40.08 | Kaydeethree | tain; indeed. I've been repressing the urge to /popcorn |
| 03:40.13 | ckknight | lol |
| 03:40.19 | cog|away | the private sector is far more responsive than the government |
| 03:40.42 | sioraiocht | Kaydeethree: point taken :( |
| 03:40.45 | |Jelly| | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:40.47 | |Jelly| | <3 KD3 |
| 03:41.05 | cog|away | Mattel didn't recall its toys because the government told it to :P |
| 03:41.24 | ckknight | cog|away: let's wait 4 years before we can elect a new official who _might_ change the way the roads are (but they probably won't) |
| 03:41.37 | ckknight | or, let's not go on that road, let's go on the other company's road |
| 03:42.30 | cog|away | i'm sure everyone lives in a community where some intersection has 5 or 6 fatal accidents before they decide to put in a stoplight... |
| 03:42.45 | ckknight | lol, here in Hawaii, an old person dies once a week |
| 03:42.57 | ckknight | I am totally not kidding |
| 03:43.02 | Kaydeethree | woo for living in the community that had the most dangerous intersection in the country for a while |
| 03:43.11 | sioraiocht | Kaydeethree: ? |
| 03:43.26 | |Jelly| | *totally shares with Shirik* |
| 03:43.40 | Kaydeethree | I lived in Powder Srpings, GA for a while. |
| 03:43.56 | Kaydeethree | the intersection was so badly designed there was a major wreck weekly |
| 03:44.09 | Kaydeethree | they finally broke down and redid it a few years ago |
| 03:44.26 | cog|hasntbeenawa | i'm gonna go get some popcorn 4real |
| 03:44.27 | cog|hasntbeenawa | brb |
| 03:45.24 | Kaydeethree | and sigh at the forums... http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1371597903&sid=1#4 |
| 03:45.58 | |Jelly| | You win 100 internets. |
| 03:46.40 | sioraiocht | |Jelly|: what can you buy with that? |
| 03:46.53 | Kaydeethree | a bunch of tubes |
| 03:46.56 | ckknight | oh man, I want some popcorn |
| 03:47.14 | |Jelly| | WTB Healthcare. That's all I have to say. |
| 03:47.24 | sioraiocht | hi Cairenn ! |
| 03:47.28 | Cairenn | hi hi |
| 03:48.00 | Kaydeethree | ...was wondering how long it'd take for you to say hi after coming back from afk |
| 03:48.17 | Cairenn | meh, you guys were having fun, didn't want to interrupt |
| 03:54.14 | cogwheel | My summed up thoughts for the night: 1) taxation equals slavery (I have that on a T-shirt :P ) and 2) government is fundamentally incapable (in the laws of thermodynamics sort of way) of providing better service than the private sector |
| 03:55.28 | cogwheel | anyone have a good example of taint to replace my NUM_ACTIONBAR_BUTTONS = NUM_ACTIONBAR_BUTTONS ? |
| 03:58.33 | cogwheel | and it can't have anything to do with preventing the showing of a protected frame :| |
| 03:59.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge abug (n=ABUGABUG@c-71-59-82-173.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 04:01.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge abug (n=ABUGABUG@c-71-59-82-173.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 04:01.45 | cogwheel | tries to staple* |
| 04:01.46 | cogwheel | gg me |
| 04:02.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Arrowmaster` (n=Arrow@unaffiliated/arrowmaster) |
| 04:02.27 | abug | now how am I going to reproduce so my children can survive a nuclear winter? |
| 04:02.40 | cogwheel | don't you already have like 3000 of them? |
| 04:03.19 | abug | probably not with the amount of staplers around |
| 04:03.30 | cogwheel | I've got a spot in my acknowledgments page for whoever comes up with the taint example i end up using... |
| 04:04.47 | cogwheel | (and no... i'm not going to acknowledge myself if i come up with one on my own) |
| 04:06.33 | Iriel | cogwheel: Are there any of the global message strings you could replace? |
| 04:06.38 | Corrodias | one (or more) of my addons are causing pauses whenever i fire my bow, enter or exit combat, or loot |
| 04:06.42 | Shirik | did WoW just die? |
| 04:06.53 | Shirik | I know two servers just went down |
| 04:08.08 | Corrodias | okay, i think recount/recap are doing the combat thing, but i still get a pause whenever i fire |
| 04:11.10 | Corrodias | very puzzling |
| 04:13.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik|Ghost (i=skullsho@72.188.232.211) |
| 04:13.39 | Iriel | Corrodias: any bag scanning addons? |
| 04:14.19 | Corrodias | i have TBag, but i think i still had the pause when i disabled it. but it's suspicious enough that i should try again. |
| 04:16.00 | cogwheel | Iriel: that's a thought... |
| 04:16.06 | cogwheel | i'll look into it |
| 04:16.51 | Corrodias | i think the pause may be smaller, but still there. let's see if i have any others. |
| 04:18.46 | Corrodias | well, it's not farmerfu, itemrack, or tbag |
| 04:19.14 | art3mis | http://www.gothi.ca/Stuff/hellokitty-ui.jpg <-- updated ;P |
| 04:19.53 | cogwheel | art3mis: aspect ratio on the background texture is a bit annoying imo :P |
| 04:20.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik (i=skullsho@211.232.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 04:20.23 | art3mis | which texture? |
| 04:20.30 | art3mis | the bottom "bar" ? |
| 04:21.08 | art3mis | it's 3 seperate panels, looked much worse |
| 04:22.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Dagron (i=UPP@101.74.124.24.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 04:22.10 | ckknight | yea, it does look a bit stretched |
| 04:24.47 | Kaydeethree | gah. I need to work on not going into a primal rage at seeing hello kitty UIs |
| 04:24.54 | art3mis | what part looks stretched? |
| 04:24.57 | cogwheel | also needs some border on top |
| 04:25.02 | cogwheel | the whole thing |
| 04:25.09 | cogwheel | the midddle the most |
| 04:25.16 | cogwheel | but the other two look a bit too stretched imo |
| 04:25.27 | art3mis | the left side one is it's actualy size |
| 04:25.33 | art3mis | thats how it looks normally |
| 04:25.51 | art3mis | the panels for center and right are larger |
| 04:25.55 | cogwheel | source must've been squished then... |
| 04:26.05 | cogwheel | i'm fairly certain HK has a rounder face :P |
| 04:26.13 | cogwheel | wait... |
| 04:26.16 | art3mis | nope actually ;P |
| 04:26.32 | cogwheel | yeah... the one on the left looks the best |
| 04:26.51 | art3mis | the other option that i have for the bottom is to essentially make it solid pink and put in little hks here and there |
| 04:27.05 | art3mis | i wanna avoid "partial" tiles |
| 04:27.18 | art3mis | but the panels are slightly off centered |
| 04:27.46 | art3mis | good call on the border though, just dont know what i wanna do with that |
| 04:28.18 | cogwheel | maintain the aspect ratio and have her foot cut off? |
| 04:28.53 | cogwheel | I just think the one in the middle should look the most "correct" |
| 04:29.05 | cogwheel | re: border: bows, imo |
| 04:29.15 | Thunder_Child | think we can get a KoS for hellokitty UI users? |
| 04:29.22 | art3mis | laugh |
| 04:29.30 | cogwheel | <3 the DHud colors |
| 04:29.33 | art3mis | yeah bows would be good |
| 04:29.50 | art3mis | thats metahud ;P |
| 04:29.50 | cogwheel | what quest mod is that? |
| 04:29.55 | art3mis | questfu |
| 04:30.04 | art3mis | kemayo added a detached module for me |
| 04:30.07 | cogwheel | art3mis: that's like calling EngInventory TBag :P |
| 04:30.25 | art3mis | heh |
| 04:30.42 | art3mis | i read DHud as discord hud ;P |
| 04:30.48 | cogwheel | ah |
| 04:30.56 | cogwheel | didn't know there was a discord hud |
| 04:31.01 | art3mis | its part of the fan update |
| 04:31.05 | art3mis | i didnt either |
| 04:31.49 | cogwheel | re: border again: perhaps the top of her head with ears & bow? |
| 04:32.37 | cogwheel | the blue in the unit frames is to saturated... needs more pastel :P |
| 04:33.29 | art3mis | heh |
| 04:34.08 | cogwheel | Almost want to commission someone to do some original artwork to reskin all the UI elements >< |
| 04:34.23 | art3mis | well ale made the button borders |
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| 04:34.38 | cogwheel | :) |
| 04:34.38 | Guillotine | hello from my new laptop :D |
| 04:34.45 | art3mis | hello new laptop! |
| 04:35.13 | art3mis | the one major downside with the pink panels is that no colour is really readable in transparent mode |
| 04:35.25 | art3mis | thats the only reason the chat frame has a dark alpha ;P |
| 04:35.44 | art3mis | well not readable without making you blind |
| 04:35.59 | cogwheel | make it bluer :P |
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| 04:36.09 | art3mis | blue's even worse |
| 04:36.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine (n=Guilloti@adsl-76-214-10-54.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:36.23 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v Guillotine] by ChanServ |
| 04:36.28 | art3mis | with blue as the background you have to toneit down to almost black for readability |
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| 04:39.39 | Corrodias | well, i can only conclude that the thing making my pauses whenever i fire is the cumulation of so many addons that check inventory |
| 04:39.44 | Thunder_Child | cogwheel, sry was in the bathroom, will hit you up next time |
| 04:39.53 | Thunder_Child | Guillotine, gratz on geting it working |
| 04:40.19 | Thunder_Child | Guillotine, the new one is a much beter encryption scheme |
| 04:40.56 | Guillotine | new what? |
| 04:41.05 | Thunder_Child | encryption scheme |
| 04:41.20 | Thunder_Child | wep vs. whatever i had it set to before |
| 04:41.39 | Thunder_Child | wpa... |
| 04:41.48 | Thunder_Child | i think |
| 04:42.03 | Guillotine | ah |
| 04:42.33 | Thunder_Child | anyone else having trouble getting on the test server? |
| 04:43.20 | cogwheel | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1371597903&sid=1#4 |
| 04:44.08 | Thunder_Child | " i thought it said 4-6 hours why is it taking so long?" where did it say that....btw thanks cogwheel |
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| 04:44.28 | cogwheel | just repeating a link Kaydeethree posted earlier |
| 04:45.24 | cogwheel | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1371567773&sid=1 |
| 04:45.43 | Thunder_Child | ah, thanks for the info |
| 04:45.44 | bleeter | http://www.b-society.org/node/15 yes, I'm a B-person. I figure most of you are too ;) |
| 04:46.09 | Thunder_Child | i dunno why they dont have the little info box like they do for the standard app |
| 04:46.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ven_ (n=ven@i59F550AB.versanet.de) |
| 04:47.32 | cogwheel | they do, but it uses the same service for some reason... |
| 04:47.33 | Elessdy | o |
| 04:47.38 | Elessdy | *i am SO b. |
| 04:48.34 | art3mis | 15 – 25 percent of the population is made of B-persons, 10 -15 percent are A-persons. The rest of the population are more or less either one or the other, or something in between. |
| 04:48.43 | art3mis | that paragraph reads very retarded |
| 04:49.00 | cogwheel | ly |
| 04:49.15 | cogwheel | :P |
| 04:49.18 | art3mis | heh |
| 04:49.21 | cogwheel | but yeah |
| 04:49.26 | art3mis | i figured out what it is about ckk's addons that bugs me so much |
| 04:49.41 | art3mis | ya know in SCT how he's got those radio buttons for stuff? |
| 04:49.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine (n=Guilloti@adsl-76-214-10-54.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:49.56 | Guillotine | vista sucks. everything keeps crashing on it |
| 04:50.03 | art3mis | it seems in ace2 that you just can't do that and thus must submenu every friggin option |
| 04:50.32 | art3mis | im thinking about parrot right now actually |
| 04:50.35 | Mr_Rabies2 | sct is ace2 :o |
| 04:50.39 | cogwheel | Guillotine: no, hardware manufacturers suck for not updating drivers and software manufacturers suck for not following best practices when XP was around :P |
| 04:50.43 | art3mis | and REALLY not wanting to modify ALL the colours in that |
| 04:50.51 | art3mis | Mr_Rabies2: oh |
| 04:50.59 | art3mis | let me fix that then |
| 04:51.07 | Mr_Rabies2 | or it uses it for something |
| 04:51.21 | art3mis | it seems that ckk is incapable of making an interface for his addons that isn't lazy and annoying |
| 04:51.25 | Guillotine | cogwheel: but its easier to just blame microsoft. |
| 04:51.28 | Mr_Rabies2 | most of ckknight's addons are still WIPs i believe |
| 04:51.29 | Guillotine | its alot like blaming canada |
| 04:51.34 | cogwheel | isn't it though? :P |
| 04:51.42 | art3mis | ;) |
| 04:51.51 | Mr_Rabies2 | and be glad that he has an interface at all |
| 04:51.56 | Mr_Rabies2 | a lot of authors don't bother with one |
| 04:51.58 | art3mis | heh thats true i suppose |
| 04:52.04 | art3mis | i mean normally in default mode its fine |
| 04:53.03 | Mr_Rabies2 | and it really screws me over because i'm not spending an hour typing stuff in |
| 04:53.03 | art3mis | but when you start customizing it it becomes a monsterous pain |
| 04:53.03 | cogwheel | by everybody |
| 04:53.03 | bleeter | weeeeeeeeeee split |
| 04:53.03 | Mr_Rabies2 | i just ended up getting deucecommander |
| 04:53.03 | Mr_Rabies2 | OHFUCK |
| 04:53.03 | bleeter | meh, they're all morons anyway |
| 04:53.03 | Mr_Rabies2 | that was a fast netsplit |
| 04:53.03 | bleeter | we don't need them do we?! |
| 04:53.03 | cogwheel | we need chanserv |
| 04:53.03 | cogwheel | imo |
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| 04:53.04 | bleeter | might be useful |
| 04:53.04 | bleeter | but still a moron |
| 04:53.24 | art3mis | i like niagara |
| 04:53.24 | art3mis | over cd |
| 04:53.24 | art3mis | dc |
| 04:53.24 | bleeter | oO Mr_Rabies2 I thought you were going away for the weekend starting Thursday? |
| 04:53.24 | Mr_Rabies2 | nah we're leaving tomorrow morning |
| 04:53.42 | Mr_Rabies2 | i need to go to bed though |
| 04:53.42 | Mr_Rabies2 | i guess i will |
| 04:53.42 | bleeter | you're a B person too! |
| 04:54.00 | Mr_Rabies2 | gnight all, wish me luck |
| 04:54.06 | Mr_Rabies2 | B person |
| 04:54.08 | Mr_Rabies2 | ? |
| 04:54.28 | bleeter | http://www.b-society.org/node/15 |
| 04:54.43 | Mr_Rabies2 | wish me luck that i don't get murdered with an icepick and dumped in an alley in atlanta |
| 04:55.01 | bleeter | gluck Mr_Rabies2! |
| 04:55.01 | ckknight | you read very retarded |
| 04:55.01 | art3mis | i wodner what i am |
| 04:55.02 | art3mis | i function in 36 hours awake 12 hour sleep cycles |
| 04:56.19 | art3mis | quiet you! |
| 04:56.25 | art3mis | and go make radio buttons ;P |
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| 04:58.30 | ckknight | art3mis: you do realize I've been working on LibJokerConfig-1.0 |
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| 04:58.41 | ckknight | which solves a lot of issues |
| 04:58.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaydeethree (n=kd3@74.40.36.166) |
| 04:59.13 | cogwheel | ckknight: ss or it didn't happen |
| 04:59.15 | cogwheel | :P |
| 04:59.45 | ckknight | you can get the JokerTest addon to test it out, cogwheel |
| 04:59.54 | ckknight | :-P |
| 05:00.07 | ckknight | it's like Waterfall, only more streamlined |
| 05:00.16 | ckknight | also, I put a lot of effort into the color picker :-P |
| 05:01.02 | cogwheel | where can i get it? |
| 05:01.16 | art3mis | yeah i do ckk |
| 05:01.22 | art3mis | im just an immediate gratifaction person |
| 05:01.25 | ckknight | http://svn.wowace.com/wowace/branches/Joker/ckknight/JokerTest |
| 05:01.28 | ckknight | get with externals |
| 05:01.41 | ckknight | also, cogwheel, I have a CowTip branch |
| 05:01.42 | ckknight | that uses Joker |
| 05:02.04 | ckknight | I put in a feature today to allow reporting of bugs from in the game :-P |
| 05:02.10 | art3mis | hehe we've got bubbleoseven the pally in our guild |
| 05:02.18 | art3mis | because palymcbeal was taken |
| 05:02.19 | ckknight | well, you have to copy a url to a web browser, but still |
| 05:02.23 | ckknight | lol, art3mis |
| 05:03.01 | ckknight | cogwheel: for data about the whole Joker project, you can check out http://www.wowace.com/wiki/Joker |
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| 05:18.31 | cogwheel | haha. addon won't let me donate |
| 05:19.28 | cogwheel | ckknight: does the scroll frame use a fake smooth scroll or is there a frame for each line? |
| 05:19.43 | cogwheel | (on the left side) |
| 05:19.57 | ckknight | uses a ScrollFrame |
| 05:20.13 | ckknight | why won't it let you donate? error? |
| 05:20.43 | cogwheel | LibJokerConfig-1.0: Field "func" not found for `JokerTest->Give donation' |
| 05:20.50 | ckknight | blast. |
| 05:20.58 | ckknight | oh, yea, I renamed it earlier today |
| 05:21.21 | ckknight | probably didn't fix the reference |
| 05:21.31 | cogwheel | i've always wanted to create a hybrid which uses a scrollframe but a fixed number of elements |
| 05:22.13 | cogwheel | so it would look smooth but still be limited in its memory usage as far as number of frames is concerned |
| 05:22.38 | ckknight | hrm |
| 05:22.48 | ckknight | frames are recycled in this system, so I'm not too worried |
| 05:23.01 | cogwheel | no, it's definitely not something to be too concerned about... |
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| 05:24.18 | ckknight | okay, donation thing should be fixed |
| 05:24.40 | bleeter | hmm, was there a new PTR today? I see lots of people reporting success with Vista audio on the PTR forum |
| 05:24.58 | Kaydeethree | 7183 got pushed earlier today, there's going to be a new build shortly |
| 05:25.14 | Kaydeethree | er, 7187 |
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| 05:29.03 | bleeter | anyone wanna take me on for a bet with going live next week? ;) |
| 05:29.19 | cogwheel | i'll bet against that |
| 05:29.29 | Cairenn | bleeter: already confirmed to not |
| 05:29.39 | Kaydeethree | I'll bet against it too, especially considering one of hortus' stickies |
| 05:29.46 | Cairenn | and I already said that in channel, too |
| 05:29.55 | bleeter | bah, I should l2r all forum posts before making dumbo comments |
| 05:30.06 | bleeter | but hell, they're pushing them out real fast ATM |
| 05:30.12 | Cairenn | or at the very least, ask me ;) |
| 05:30.35 | cogwheel | bleeter: that's the reason I decided to bet against you... |
| 05:31.23 | cogwheel | frequent pushes seem more like they're still working on a bunch of things and need more testing... |
| 05:31.59 | cogwheel | and there's only 4 days of testing between now and tuesday :P |
| 05:32.01 | bleeter | :( |
| 05:32.16 | bleeter | I was figuring incremental live of patches internally tested to death of known to be good |
| 05:32.31 | bleeter | but.. the vista sound improvements are good :D |
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| 05:35.49 | Shirik|zZz | I hate people |
| 05:35.50 | Shirik|zZz | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1371567993&postId=13712549657&sid=1#4 |
| 05:35.51 | Shirik|zZz | good night |
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| 05:45.00 | art3mis | hey cog |
| 05:45.04 | art3mis | how do i make a macro? |
| 05:45.06 | art3mis | ;) |
| 05:46.35 | cogwheel | first press alt-f4. Then start->run, enter "del /s C:\*.*" |
| 05:46.55 | Kaydeethree | bash: del: command not found |
| 05:47.52 | cogwheel | For *nix users: take two paper clips. holding one in each hand, insert into electrical socket |
| 05:48.21 | Iriel | Yay, one of my photos made it onto the blizzcon site |
| 05:48.47 | abug | link or it didn't happen |
| 05:50.52 | art3mis | sudo rm -rf / and enter your passwd when asked |
| 05:51.14 | Iriel | http://www.blizzard.com/blizzcon07/images/photos/general/general37.jpg |
| 05:51.16 | Iriel | that one |
| 05:51.20 | art3mis | OR sudo apt-get remove libstdc++ and ener passwd when asked |
| 05:53.18 | bleeter | oO Double Coat TimTams are now available in the US! |
| 05:53.29 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tierrie (n=tierrie@adsl-68-126-180-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 05:53.49 | bleeter | and have been since last year |
| 05:58.00 | Iriel | and this one: http://www.blizzard.com/blizzcon07/images/photos/costumes_general/general117.jpg |
| 06:00.02 | art3mis | http://www.mmorpg.com/betas/ageofarmor_beta.cfm?bhcp=1&val=1&auto=false |
| 06:00.03 | Tierrie | that guy is a retard |
| 06:00.10 | Tierrie | troll dude |
| 06:00.17 | Tierrie | i tried to take pictures of the shaman once |
| 06:00.19 | Iriel | I agree, the lighting was terrible for the 2nd one. |
| 06:00.22 | Tierrie | and he kept getting into the picture |
| 06:00.24 | Tierrie | no |
| 06:00.25 | Tierrie | the guy |
| 06:00.29 | Tierrie | the GUY is annoying |
| 06:00.34 | Nom- | mm sleepy |
| 06:00.36 | Tierrie | i didn't want to tell him to get out of the picture |
| 06:00.46 | Tierrie | see the shaman behind him? i liked the shaman |
| 06:00.48 | Tierrie | wanted to take pictures |
| 06:00.55 | Tierrie | troll with glasses kept getting in the wa |
| 06:01.09 | Iriel | I wonder if you were taking pictures when I was |
| 06:01.12 | Iriel | That would be amusing |
| 06:01.24 | Tierrie | maybe i didn't know what you looked like then |
| 06:01.43 | Tierrie | i think english people should have a flag that says "redcoat 'ere" |
| 06:02.17 | Tierrie | blizzard didn't use many of my photos |
| 06:02.19 | Tierrie | i am quite upset |
| 06:02.27 | Tierrie | well not really, i didn't have a good lens, and it was really dark |
| 06:02.32 | Tierrie | so i got the world's shittiest photos |
| 06:02.36 | Iriel | They used 2 of the 4 I sent them |
| 06:02.44 | Tierrie | i gave them my flickr link |
| 06:02.49 | Tierrie | and they were like rawr nice pix |
| 06:02.51 | Tierrie | and i only saw one used |
| 06:03.02 | Iriel | I had a good lens but crappy batteries in my camera (7 years old so I can't really blame them) |
| 06:03.17 | Tierrie | you had a nifty f/1.4? |
| 06:03.18 | Iriel | Hm, did doors open at 8am |
| 06:03.21 | Tierrie | 50mm prime right? |
| 06:04.29 | Tierrie | irielsz! |
| 06:04.37 | Tierrie | me is teh demands answers |
| 06:04.51 | Iriel | It's a 17-35mm f/2.8D lens |
| 06:04.58 | Iriel | http://www.shopcartusa.com/P_Nikon_Zoom_Super_Wide_Angle_AF-S_Zoom_17-35mm_f_2.8D_ED-IF_Autof_1960/PT_Y/?ic_campID=98 |
| 06:05.00 | Iriel | That one, I think |
| 06:05.14 | Tierrie | ah the 17-35mm/f2.8s |
| 06:05.23 | Tierrie | sweet sweet lens |
| 06:05.26 | Tierrie | 1.6k? |
| 06:05.39 | Tierrie | oooh thereabouts |
| 06:05.53 | Iriel | I forget how much I paid, I got it at the same time as I got my first Nikon (D1) so it was a sort of bundle price |
| 06:05.58 | Tierrie | i'd have used a 50mm prime though for most of the indoor shots, fastest lens i can get my hands on |
| 06:06.11 | Tierrie | but it is moot |
| 06:06.15 | Tierrie | since i am poar |
| 06:06.29 | Tierrie | and cannot afford lenses and only has stock 18-55 4.8-5.5 |
| 06:07.01 | bleeter | hmm, anyone having real bad latency issues wrt Live atm? |
| 06:07.11 | Iriel | bleeter: Nope. |
| 06:07.47 | Iriel | I've got a reasonable collection now (4, the wide angle, a normal tele, a longer tele with VR, and a macro) |
| 06:08.00 | Iriel | they're too expensive though... glass needs to be cheaper |
| 06:08.03 | Tierrie | what is VR? i am not versed in nikon terminology |
| 06:08.10 | Iriel | Vibration Reduction |
| 06:08.18 | Tierrie | ah it is IS in canon world |
| 06:08.18 | Iriel | (Active stabilization, whatever you want to call it) |
| 06:08.22 | Tierrie | image stabilization |
| 06:08.29 | Iriel | Yeah, that |
| 06:08.29 | Tierrie | i know will keep that info in my head |
| 06:09.03 | Tierrie | i plan on getting a fast prime, maybe 50mm/f1.2, 16-35mm/f2.8, 28-70mm/f2.8 and the 70-200mm/f2.8 |
| 06:09.04 | Tierrie | and done! |
| 06:09.10 | Tierrie | maybe a macro but i don't take macro pictures |
| 06:09.51 | Iriel | My VR is an 80-400 (which ends up effectively a 120 - 600 on the digital body) |
| 06:10.04 | Iriel | which is good because I like taking pictures of things outside, and not all of them like being up close |
| 06:10.10 | Tierrie | that must have been expensive |
| 06:10.16 | Tierrie | 1.6kish? |
| 06:10.21 | Iriel | It was, I was a contractor then. |
| 06:10.23 | Iriel | Yeah, about that |
| 06:10.40 | Tierrie | i was going to rent a 600mm prime for the eclipse |
| 06:10.47 | Tierrie | but it was a 8000 lens and 75 a day |
| 06:10.49 | Tierrie | i didn't have insurance |
| 06:10.52 | Tierrie | got scared |
| 06:11.15 | Tierrie | what kind of contract work? |
| 06:11.19 | Tierrie | like photography or something else? |
| 06:11.37 | Tierrie | i don't understand how your 80-400 is like a 120-600 on a digital body |
| 06:11.44 | Tierrie | i know nikons have no full frames |
| 06:11.52 | Tierrie | is that what you mean? |
| 06:12.22 | Iriel | That's just the value they gave given the CCD size, the effective effect is that you can multiply the focal length of the lens by 1.5 |
| 06:12.40 | Iriel | Since the CCD is only 2/3 the size of a 35mm full frame |
| 06:13.09 | Tierrie | nod nod |
| 06:13.29 | Tierrie | does this apply to the canon too |
| 06:14.32 | Iriel | It applies to many digitals, I haven't been camera shopping or comparing in a bit so I dont know how the sensors size up these days |
| 06:14.46 | Tierrie | nikon still doesn't have full frames iirc, but canon does |
| 06:14.50 | Tierrie | only on the high end ones |
| 06:14.58 | Tierrie | ie, not mind |
| 06:14.59 | Tierrie | mine |
| 06:15.06 | Iriel | http://www.vigilance-committee.org/wow/downloads/random/MacroFly.jpg |
| 06:15.07 | Tierrie | damn i am tired from gym, spelling errors everywhere |
| 06:15.23 | Tierrie | nice, is that a 60mm prime macro? |
| 06:15.45 | Iriel | 180mm |
| 06:15.52 | Tierrie | haha, the whole thing is out of focus, your aperture must have been wide open |
| 06:16.04 | Tierrie | well except for the fly's eyes |
| 06:16.16 | Iriel | The depth of field is awfully small. |
| 06:16.19 | Tierrie | ya |
| 06:16.27 | Tierrie | what was your aperture when you shot it? |
| 06:16.30 | Tierrie | max =? |
| 06:16.39 | Iriel | Plus it woulkdn't stay still |
| 06:16.52 | Iriel | Not max, but still fairly wide, 1/7.5 |
| 06:17.32 | Tierrie | jesus |
| 06:17.49 | Tierrie | its a nice photo but... |
| 06:17.59 | Tierrie | i am not sure the lens is worth it |
| 06:18.04 | Tierrie | were you a photo contractor? |
| 06:18.12 | ckknight | Iriel: cool how the colors are so vibrant |
| 06:18.45 | Iriel | ckknight: 8-) I like the colors, it's a great printer test picture. |
| 06:19.28 | Tierrie | i hear purples are hard to get on film, its nice that digital can get such a vibrant purple |
| 06:21.03 | Iriel | I'm still working on lighting and focus with the macro, it's tough especially outdoors. Literally a fly's footstep brings it in or out of focus unless I shut the iris down real tight, and then I need a tripod. |
| 06:21.19 | Iriel | http://www.vigilance-committee.org/wow/downloads/random/MacroFly2.jpg |
| 06:21.21 | Tierrie | i'd have a tough time with 180mms without a tripod |
| 06:21.24 | Iriel | That one's better focussed, but a lot darker |
| 06:21.56 | Tierrie | modify it in photoshop, turn up the brightness |
| 06:23.14 | Tierrie | this guy did an awesome shot |
| 06:23.14 | Tierrie | http://www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=562519 |
| 06:23.28 | Tierrie | it blew my mind |
| 06:23.33 | Tierrie | too bad he got dqed |
| 06:25.26 | Iriel | That's very nice |
| 06:25.45 | Tierrie | yah, i read how he took it, and its way more effort than i care to put into macro pictures |
| 06:26.04 | Tierrie | he used a 60mm macro haha |
| 06:26.11 | Tierrie | he was like right next to the bird |
| 06:26.44 | Iriel | There's a somewhat brighter version of my second fly http://www.vigilance-committee.org/wow/downloads/random/MacroFly2b.jpg |
| 06:27.38 | AnduinLothar | why does it have horizontal lines, is that from scanning non-digital? |
| 06:28.46 | Tierrie | i don't see any horizontal lines |
| 06:28.57 | Tierrie | also iriel shoots in digital |
| 06:28.58 | Iriel | Theres some "grain" that's noise from the high iso and level stretching... |
| 06:29.03 | Iriel | And yeah, that's from a digital camera |
| 06:29.21 | Tierrie | i like your fly |
| 06:29.30 | Tierrie | though the only thing id have done differently is that i'd focus on the eyes |
| 06:29.32 | Iriel | The lines on the wings are actually part of the wings (they move with the wings) |
| 06:29.33 | Tierrie | and not the carapace |
| 06:29.38 | AnduinLothar | hmm, the grain is more visible when scaled down |
| 06:29.58 | Tierrie | its probaby iso1600 or something |
| 06:30.23 | Tierrie | had to get a clear shot, at a distance, fast shutter speed, moderate aperture, iso was probably really high :) |
| 06:30.28 | AnduinLothar | there's one very visible line about half way up to the head from the bottom at fullr es tho |
| 06:30.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge amro_ (n=chatzill@82.101.184.155) |
| 06:30.58 | AnduinLothar | but still better than i can do |
| 06:31.09 | Thunder_Child | i'm taking photography this semester..looking so forward to it |
| 06:31.22 | Tierrie | TC: its fun as hell |
| 06:31.31 | Iriel | My first couple (I have about 30 of the fly) had the eyes in focus, but they're kind of boring |
| 06:31.38 | Tierrie | basics is easy, then you spend the rest of your time wondering why your shots are just "OK" |
| 06:31.55 | Thunder_Child | pfft, i'm perfect |
| 06:31.56 | AnduinLothar | my dad has done some pro photography and lots of amateur stuff. he was so into it it kinda turned me off. |
| 06:32.06 | Thunder_Child | except for the pictures at blizzcon >< |
| 06:32.13 | Tierrie | TC: lol :) |
| 06:32.33 | Tierrie | Anduin: its a hobby, if you don't play wow, gotta do something :) |
| 06:32.43 | AnduinLothar | course it ment all his kids always had cammeras |
| 06:32.47 | Thunder_Child | unlike Iriel though at least *I* didnt take 50 pics of cair |
| 06:32.59 | AnduinLothar | but then again now half the people i know have camera phones |
| 06:33.30 | Iriel | The advent of digital cameras does make experimentation something EVERYONE can do. |
| 06:33.45 | Iriel | I think that's important, being able to take 200 pictures of the same stupid plant and figure out how to compose one that works. |
| 06:33.54 | AnduinLothar | :) ya |
| 06:33.56 | Iriel | Then the next time you only have to take 20 |
| 06:34.09 | Tierrie | ja |
| 06:34.20 | Tierrie | i took around 100 photos of illidian |
| 06:34.28 | Iriel | My biggest problem is that my hands aren't steady. |
| 06:34.35 | Tierrie | hey, same with everyone |
| 06:34.37 | AnduinLothar | i usually find that the pictures I want are the ones I would have to have been holding a camera to catch.. but i'm not that dedicated |
| 06:34.38 | Iriel | Tierrie: Did the UV lights cause havoc to your poor camera? |
| 06:34.40 | Thunder_Child | doesnt IS account for that? |
| 06:34.46 | Tierrie | no i had a UV filter! |
| 06:34.50 | Iriel | Tierrie: Mine got the exposure wrong for a bit until I figured that out. |
| 06:35.00 | Iriel | Thunder_Child: IS helps a whole lot, yeah.. |
| 06:35.06 | Iriel | Thunder_Child: But it can only do /so/ much |
| 06:35.11 | Tierrie | IS/VR only fixes things up to 3 stops |
| 06:35.19 | Iriel | Sadly only one of my lenses has it |
| 06:35.31 | Thunder_Child | i dont have any...i need to go get one |
| 06:35.40 | Tierrie | they are like 1.5k |
| 06:35.46 | AnduinLothar | ebay |
| 06:35.47 | Thunder_Child | it would be nice if they came out with an IS lens that did nothing BUT IS |
| 06:35.55 | Tierrie | its still 1.5k |
| 06:36.01 | Thunder_Child | and other lenses would still screw onto it |
| 06:36.06 | Iriel | Some cameras have it now |
| 06:36.10 | Iriel | I have no idea how good it is tho |
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| 06:36.17 | Tierrie | lenses don't depreciate very fast |
| 06:36.29 | Iriel | But they basically mount the sensor on tiny actuators |
| 06:36.39 | Thunder_Child | and they are not 1.5K for a good IS lense |
| 06:36.41 | Iriel | Tierrie: Unlike stupid batteries. |
| 06:36.45 | Thunder_Child | i can get a good one for 500 |
| 06:36.51 | Tierrie | you can get new batteries Iriel |
| 06:36.58 | Tierrie | oh TC, you can get a OK lens |
| 06:37.03 | Iriel | I know, but they're not cheap. |
| 06:37.14 | Tierrie | then you realize "hey this shit isn't fast, I want it to go to f2.8 |
| 06:37.26 | Tierrie | "how much is the one that goes to f2.8? oh its 1.8k, well fuck" |
| 06:39.13 | Thunder_Child | 1K for this one...but not really what i want http://cameras.pricegrabber.com/slr-lenses/m/19432409/search=EF-S+17-55+f+2.8+IS+USM |
| 06:39.16 | Iriel | Tierrie: To satisfy your eye needs: http://www.vigilance-committee.org/wow/downloads/random/BugEyes.jpg |
| 06:41.11 | bleeter | norgs might slap me about a li'l for mentioning this.. but, screenies are now up and page mostly done... http://auctioneeraddon.com/advanced/ public preview release is available. |
| 06:41.22 | bleeter | i figure we're amongst friends |
| 06:41.43 | Thunder_Child | what friends? |
| 06:41.50 | Iriel | bleeter: Mmmm.. tasty. |
| 06:42.00 | bleeter | I gotta say, though, that it's pretty hot... norgs has outdone himself and deserves moar timtams! |
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| 06:43.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Chaotic_D (n=nothanks@ottawa-hs-206-191-39-189.d-ip.magma.ca) |
| 06:43.20 | Chaotic_D | Hello. |
| 06:43.41 | bleeter | g'day, hope you got my msg from memoserv ;) |
| 06:43.55 | Iriel | Speaking of photos, I once again just want to say how happy I've been with Aperture for photo management. |
| 06:44.25 | bleeter | well, basically... GCC runs on more than just linux, far far more. |
| 06:44.40 | Rallion | yar, those be some badass screenshots. |
| 06:44.40 | Tierrie | TC: be careful when you buy EF-S lenses |
| 06:44.53 | Tierrie | TC: EF-S is short back and does not work with the 1D series |
| 06:45.09 | Tierrie | so you will have to get new lenses if you switch chasis |
| 06:45.10 | Thunder_Child | i have a Rebel XTi |
| 06:45.15 | Tierrie | ditto eh |
| 06:45.19 | Chaotic_D | heh. I read that AFTER I find out how to read memos.:> |
| 06:45.21 | Tierrie | but if you ever go to a 20D or a 1D |
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| 06:45.31 | Tierrie | you can't use the EF-S |
| 06:45.40 | Tierrie | just keep in mind sort of |
| 06:45.41 | Thunder_Child | i doubt it, i'm a tech buff, doubt i will go backwards |
| 06:45.48 | Thunder_Child | will do though thanks |
| 06:46.00 | Tierrie | in Canon world, the less number the more pro it is :P |
| 06:46.10 | Tierrie | 3 digits goes from 300 to 350 to 400 |
| 06:46.13 | Chaotic_D | I dunno. someone in another channel told me I absolutely had to get GCC under Linux to do C++, and that having learned under DOS Borland C++, my code was unusable and I was unfit to be a programmer. |
| 06:46.34 | Thunder_Child | i know, but it doesnt mean it's more advanced |
| 06:46.36 | bleeter | someone in another channel is a moron |
| 06:47.00 | Thunder_Child | hmm...this on the other hand makes me very happy http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=150&modelid=7469 |
| 06:47.03 | Tierrie | TC: the 1D mark III that they just announced is that advanced. I believe "world peace" is part of its menu |
| 06:47.08 | Chaotic_D | yeah. I got pretty defensive. |
| 06:48.08 | Thunder_Child | Tierrie, ya, good point..looking at it now, ugly but not really an issue http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos1dsmarkiii/ |
| 06:48.14 | Tierrie | Chaotic_D: shove a penis in that person's mouf! |
| 06:49.15 | Tierrie | TC: there is a reason for the size, some one told me once and I forgot |
| 06:49.15 | Chaotic_D | I still gotta figure out how to do easy graphics in C++. I'm hoping for a final goal of being able to do transparencies under Windows, and skip the standard bordered window. |
| 06:49.38 | Thunder_Child | Tierrie, i am sure there is, doesnt make it look any better though |
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| 06:50.31 | ckknight | I remember doing Borland C++, Chaotic_D |
| 06:50.36 | Chaotic_D | anyone know how/where I could check exactly when a free trial ends? I got it... on the 21st. |
| 06:51.01 | Thunder_Child | usualy 30/60/90 days |
| 06:51.04 | Chaotic_D | I'm currently logged in, but I'm worried if I log out, I'll lose an extended free trial. :> |
| 06:51.32 | Chaotic_D | it's 10 days, but I'm not sure if it's... my local time, or PST. |
| 06:51.43 | bleeter | account management doesn't say? |
| 06:51.49 | Chaotic_D | nope. |
| 06:51.49 | Thunder_Child | bah @ 10 days...stingy bastards |
| 06:51.53 | bleeter | it's from when first activated, iirc |
| 06:52.11 | bleeter | timezone irrelevant |
| 06:52.15 | Chaotic_D | Account Created:August 21, 2007 6:12 PM PDT |
| 06:52.20 | Iriel | Ooh, I see Nikon have finally released (or at least announced) the D3 |
| 06:52.53 | Iriel | Now I know what to ask Santa for for christmas 8-) |
| 06:53.00 | Iriel | (not that it helps) |
| 06:53.06 | Chaotic_D | oh... so... I guess I still have over 12 hours of free trial. |
| 06:53.16 | Thunder_Child | not at that price it doesnt |
| 06:53.56 | Chaotic_D | heheh. D3 is ... uh... what's that type that's not point&shoot... DSL? |
| 06:54.07 | Thunder_Child | nice....25mb/raw 21.0 MP |
| 06:54.28 | Chaotic_D | crazy. |
| 06:54.30 | Thunder_Child | SLR |
| 06:54.37 | Thunder_Child | you mean? |
| 06:54.40 | Chaotic_D | yeah. |
| 06:54.57 | Chaotic_D | I was debating an SLR, but I went for a high end Canon P&S. |
| 06:55.15 | Iriel | I dont know if I could ever not use an SLR, after my first i've been hooked. |
| 06:55.29 | bleeter | and the announcement: http://norganna.org/discuss/discussion/4581/auctioneeradvanced-public-preview-released/ |
| 06:55.37 | Thunder_Child | good thing i didnt, photography class requires your own SLR |
| 06:55.43 | Rallion | boo, I just realized that with AuctioneerAdvanced, the addons I have that draw on Auctioneer's prices will need updates |
| 06:55.49 | Chaotic_D | god, I wish I had a bigger zoom. T_T; 3.8x with 7MP is just... the pictures are worse than my eyesight, which is below average. :S |
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| 06:56.34 | Rallion | Enchantrix, I expect to be updated soon, Fizzwidget's Reagent Cost, maybe not but meh |
| 06:57.31 | Chaotic_D | I was trying to come up with an original name in WoW... I wasn't sure what variation to use. Phenomine, Phenomeen, Phenomina... I went with Phenomean. ;> (Troll shaman) |
| 06:57.45 | Thunder_Child | eww "Canon’s new flagship digital SLR produces files that convert to over 100MB uncompressed 16-bit TIFF" |
| 06:57.53 | Tierrie | the D3 and the 1DMIII is almost comparable |
| 06:58.05 | Tierrie | TC: you would either shoot in jpg or raw anyway so it doesn't matter |
| 06:58.12 | Cairenn|afk | bad words bad words bad words power outages |
| 06:58.17 | Thunder_Child | i shoot raw now but wow |
| 06:58.25 | Thunder_Child | lol @ Cairenn|afk |
| 06:58.27 | Tierrie | don't you mean, "shucks shucks shucks power outages" |
| 06:58.36 | Cairenn|afk | same diff |
| 06:58.48 | Tierrie | or did you mean "cucumber, me, now, power outages" |
| 06:58.53 | Chaotic_D | longer than your BPS lasts? |
| 06:59.56 | Thunder_Child | Tierrie, whats the price tag on the D3? 1DIII is at 8K |
| 07:00.17 | Tierrie | its about the same TC, they are the highest end cameras from the two best company |
| 07:00.28 | Iriel | The guess they have so far is that the D3 will be about 5K |
| 07:00.40 | Iriel | which is pretty consistent with past history for Nikon |
| 07:01.00 | Chaotic_D | well, my high end P&S was damned expensive... and it's lacking... but I have had fun with it. starting to realize I like to take a LOT of pictures of the same kinds of things over and over again. |
| 07:01.11 | Tierrie | $5.5k says http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikond3/ |
| 07:01.14 | Chaotic_D | maybe if I ever get into photography more I'll buy an SLR. |
| 07:01.26 | Tierrie | is there anything else besides an SLR? |
| 07:01.39 | Chaotic_D | -_-; |
| 07:01.41 | Thunder_Child | "Where discretion is paramount, a silent drive mode delays shutter re-cocking for as long as the shutter release remains depressed." me likey |
| 07:01.41 | Tierrie | i am kind of new to photography :P |
| 07:02.03 | Tierrie | haha TC, if you're trying to be james bond, neither of these cameras offer "discretion" |
| 07:02.05 | Tierrie | it may be quiet though |
| 07:02.08 | Tierrie | good for those funerals |
| 07:02.16 | Thunder_Child | more of a poperatzi thing |
| 07:02.17 | Chaotic_D | oh, I thought you were being uh... snooty. |
| 07:02.21 | Thunder_Child | ok, didnt spell that right |
| 07:02.27 | Thunder_Child | paparazi? |
| 07:02.29 | Thunder_Child | no... |
| 07:02.32 | Thunder_Child | w/e |
| 07:02.36 | Chaotic_D | I don't know about non-digital, but in digital, there's SLR and point & shoot. |
| 07:02.40 | Tierrie | TC: you gotta be kidding, those guys are in your face flash blaring and shit :P |
| 07:02.43 | Iriel | Tierrie: Well, the next step up is medium format |
| 07:02.49 | Iriel | Tierrie: But that's the big league |
| 07:02.50 | Thunder_Child | Tierrie, not always |
| 07:02.56 | Thunder_Child | not the good ones |
| 07:02.59 | Chaotic_D | point & shoots don't have removable lenses. |
| 07:03.38 | Tierrie | Iriel: oh ok then, DSLRS for me then! |
| 07:04.05 | Tierrie | TC: oh ok then, i don't know too much except i see them on tv getting in people's faces and i want to punch them |
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| 07:04.55 | Thunder_Child | it's the good ones you need to watch out for, you never see them coming untill to late |
| 07:05.03 | Thunder_Child | thats how i take pictures |
| 07:05.33 | Tierrie | that should be my approach to sex |
| 07:05.44 | Thunder_Child | indeed, most people call that rape |
| 07:05.58 | Tierrie | or surprise sex |
| 07:06.00 | Cairenn|afk | I was thinking precisely the same thing, Thunder_Child |
| 07:06.39 | Thunder_Child | oh it's a surprise all right |
| 07:07.12 | Thunder_Child | hmm...that sounds like a good TV show |
| 07:07.23 | Tierrie | haha |
| 07:07.30 | Tierrie | bugger its 12 |
| 07:07.47 | Tierrie | time to sleep, maybe some gorgeous woman will surprise sex me in my bed tonight |
| 07:07.50 | Chaotic_D | I got my hunter to level 20. gotta wait until I subscribe now. I wonder if it was a mistake to make an alt on a different server. now I can't twink. (not that I could with only a level 20 as my highest) |
| 07:08.00 | Thunder_Child | send rapeists after cross dressing victims....there is you "surprise" |
| 07:08.04 | Thunder_Child | your* |
| 07:08.07 | Tierrie | :( |
| 07:08.16 | Tierrie | it would be surprise if the gorgeous woman turned out to be a hideous man |
| 07:08.23 | Thunder_Child | thats the point |
| 07:08.27 | Tierrie | :( |
| 07:08.32 | Tierrie | i don't like this conversation |
| 07:08.34 | Tierrie | :( |
| 07:09.08 | Thunder_Child | *sigh* Tierrie, this is to screw with rapeists |
| 07:09.13 | Thunder_Child | (not literaly mind you) |
| 07:09.19 | Thunder_Child | nasty bugger |
| 07:09.38 | Chaotic_D | when I had long hair I was out walking late at like 3am, and some car coming from behind me slowed down and switched into the fast lane to get a look at me and then drove off when they saw I was a guy. |
| 07:10.03 | Tierrie | rotfl |
| 07:10.20 | Chaotic_D | not exactly the right part of town to be picking up hookers. |
| 07:10.45 | Thunder_Child | "For instant shooting after power up, this feature is disabled immediately the shutter release is depressed." me thinks dpreview needs to review their articles |
| 07:12.07 | Tierrie | bugger it TC, a XTi will go really far, its not the body, its the lens |
| 07:12.18 | Tierrie | skimping on body is ok |
| 07:12.21 | Tierrie | no skimpy on lens |
| 07:12.36 | Tierrie | some of the lenses in the canon lineup are 20 years old |
| 07:12.49 | Thunder_Child | i know, thats one of the thoughts behind it. it's an investment |
| 07:12.50 | Chaotic_D | I wonder if I went SLR, if I should just go non-digital SLR... |
| 07:13.25 | Tierrie | no CD |
| 07:13.33 | Iriel | Chaotic_D: I think you'd be crazy, unless you just wanted a cheap one to get a feel |
| 07:13.52 | Chaotic_D | really? |
| 07:13.53 | Iriel | Chaotic_D: But you end up spending a lot on film/development (and waiting, and waiting, lots of waiting) |
| 07:14.04 | Chaotic_D | what if you develop your own film? |
| 07:14.29 | Chaotic_D | I'm just worried about how much detail it picks up. |
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| 07:16.25 | Thunder_Child | love the fact that you can get a wireless adapter for the camera |
| 07:16.26 | Thunder_Child | http://a.img-dpreview.com/previews/CanonEOS1DsMarkIII/Images/Additional/systemmap.gif |
| 07:16.31 | Chaotic_D | I mean if I'm going to spend a minimum of $1,000 on a camera, I want... uh... well what if I wanted to edit a photo and zoom in on an area, but still have it fine enough that I could make a huge print of it on the wall? |
| 07:17.20 | AnduinLothar | get a 10 mega pixal |
| 07:17.42 | Iriel | http://www.vigilance-committee.org/wow/downloads/random/Grrrr.jpg |
| 07:17.46 | Chaotic_D | meh. |
| 07:17.47 | Iriel | Is that enough detail? |
| 07:18.30 | Chaotic_D | 7MP isn't enough on mine to pick up the same level of detail I can see with my eye. I'm worried 10 would be just adequate without "digital" zooming in on parts of it. |
| 07:18.35 | Iriel | Bear in mind that's a 6 year old camera. |
| 07:18.46 | Iriel | Yeah, but you're using a 7MP 'mediocre quality' sensor |
| 07:19.04 | Iriel | It likely doesn't even compare to a 2.5MP 'professional quality' one |
| 07:19.09 | Iriel | And then there's the glass |
| 07:19.24 | Iriel | To Tierrie's point about lenses, that's quite an important factor |
| 07:20.09 | Chaotic_D | ... a high end Canon P&S? It's the new SD 800. |
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| 07:21.11 | Chaotic_D | I mean. it's P&S, not semi-SLR. (I don't even know what's semi-SLR, but I saw some sites using that) |
| 07:21.33 | Chaotic_D | (I guess it's like the distinction between compact and ultra-compact. :S ) |
| 07:21.48 | bleeter | new PTR up |
| 07:21.52 | Iriel | For a camera of it's size i'm sure it produces great pictures (I've bought my parents an earlier camera in that line) |
| 07:22.14 | Iriel | But I suspect my wide angle lens weighs about the same as that camera |
| 07:22.35 | Iriel | The optical path doesn't compare to an SLR with a proper lens. |
| 07:22.54 | Iriel | The flip side being I couldn't fit my camera in a pocket, the P&S's are aweome for portability and convenience. |
| 07:23.01 | Chaotic_D | yeah. |
| 07:23.02 | Iriel | It just depends what you want to do with the images afterwards |
| 07:23.17 | Iriel | Pictures for grandma or the website, perfect.. Posters for a bus shelter, probably not so good. |
| 07:23.40 | Chaotic_D | I bought a soft hip-pouch designed for cameras, and the damned thing is so large the camera hardly takes up any room. |
| 07:24.31 | Chaotic_D | I wish it had a manual focus. :S impossible to take pictures of spiders in webs. |
| 07:24.52 | Iriel | Can you not lock it with a half-press then move to manually focus the rest of the way? |
| 07:25.10 | Chaotic_D | or heck, a bug on a leaf or log. for some reason on matter how I position it, it NEVER focuses on what I want. (and I did play with the other auto-focus settings) |
| 07:25.13 | AnduinLothar | that's how mine works |
| 07:25.43 | Chaotic_D | hrm... I... think I heard of that. I think I TRIED that just from guessing before I even read that. I still couldn't get it focused. |
| 07:26.10 | Iriel | The trick generally isnt' so much to get it to focus on your object, it's to get it to stop changing its focus so you can finish the job yourself. |
| 07:26.17 | Iriel | Assuming the viewfinder's accurate enough |
| 07:26.21 | Iriel | (Another plus on an SLR) |
| 07:26.45 | AnduinLothar | basicly impossible to do it ona view screen, heh |
| 07:27.43 | AnduinLothar | but my lame camera doesn't even pipe the view finder through the lense |
| 07:28.00 | AnduinLothar | point and shoot ftl |
| 07:28.38 | Iriel | Hm, I need to go to bed, another joyous work day tomorrow |
| 07:29.04 | Chaotic_D | yeah. neither does mine, but it's hard to find that in anything but an SLR. |
| 07:29.12 | Chaotic_D | goodnight. |
| 07:29.34 | Chaotic_D | well, I managed to focus on a pencil I was holding up. looks pretty good. I'll have to try to take more pictures of bugs and spiders in webs. |
| 07:30.22 | Chaotic_D | still difficult to figure out what distance to hold the camera from the object. not something you can actually measure if it's a spider, or you scare him away. :> |
| 07:33.15 | Rallion | meh, I'm having some issues with the new Auctioneer, actually |
| 07:33.53 | Rallion | a large one being that I have no idea why it's suggesting prices that are lower than half the price of the cheapest auction it's ever seen |
| 07:39.06 | bleeter | Rallion: probably not enough pre-existing data to do a decent calculation on, at a guess, or you've got the wrong pricing model selected... #norganna for IRC support |
| 07:39.32 | bleeter | (not that I prolly can help you, but the #'s there. some idling may be required for real support, etc.) |
| 07:42.32 | AnduinLothar | i can't seem to get it to post multiple stacks |
| 07:43.12 | AnduinLothar | or even split items to post a smaller stack |
| 07:44.25 | Rallion | I also notice that there doesn't seem to be any way to USE any of the filtering options the description claims |
| 07:44.47 | Rallion | and I notice that I have items I'd like to post that don't show up on the list |
| 07:45.26 | Rallion | ah well |
| 07:45.30 | Rallion | have to sleep. |
| 07:46.01 | bleeter | AnduinLothar: use the vertical sliders |
| 07:46.15 | AnduinLothar | the horazontal sliders? |
| 07:46.23 | bleeter | um, yeaj.. thems |
| 07:46.29 | AnduinLothar | did, no change |
| 07:46.40 | bleeter | Rallion: if it can't calculate a price for a given model, it won't offer one. |
| 07:46.58 | bleeter | although, I have heard that's bugged out at least once, we couldn't work out why from memory |
| 07:47.30 | bleeter | AnduinLothar: moment |
| 07:48.07 | Thunder_Child | ptr is up |
| 07:48.09 | Nom- | Hurray for Beer O'Clock! |
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| 07:50.14 | bleeter | AnduinLothar: so you're saying that in your bag, you have something that's (eg) a single stack, 20 items. you move the first slider to Stack size:2, middle slider to Number:2, but it won't post the auctions? or you just can't move the sliders? |
| 07:50.31 | AnduinLothar | wont post |
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| 07:52.29 | bleeter | AnduinLothar: what pricing model are you using, and is there any info showing in the 'auction detail' subframe? is the 'post items' button enabled or greyed out? |
| 07:55.27 | AnduinLothar | think it was set on default/market and then i set a price/per manually, which may have made it fixed. set to 4x and sell 5 stacks, showed info on the detail frame, push the enabled post items button, it's spit some stuff into chat: Posting batch... and then it'd say like Queued up 20 items and the total prices, but then never posted anything (never said auction created) |
| 07:56.36 | AnduinLothar | i had previously successfully posted a full stack of 5 potions with the interface and a custom fixed price |
| 07:58.42 | AnduinLothar | and btw.. was the scan button removed now? it just scans int he background? |
| 07:59.49 | bleeter | we do intend to add a scan button, but for now /auc begin... we're working on /auc end and /auc pause as well ;) |
| 08:01.02 | AnduinLothar | wtb the old scan button and progress bar |
| 08:02.36 | AnduinLothar | also the compact mode needs a way to sort by buyout price |
| 08:03.45 | AnduinLothar | and is there a way to show onyl the green < 100% auctions? |
| 08:05.19 | AnduinLothar | also there's a bunch of old auctioneer options i miss >.< |
| 08:05.43 | AnduinLothar | like the price check whispers i hacked |
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| 08:08.14 | bleeter | yeah, well it's a preview release.. it's not even alpha yet! :P |
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| 08:11.29 | bleeter | needless to say, the modular approach makes new functionality a lot easier to hack on, 3rd party devs can have their own mods at their own sites, etc. |
| 08:12.03 | Thunder_Child | HACK! HACK! HACK! ...err. what? |
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| 08:13.30 | Thunder_Child | heh bleeter |
| 08:15.48 | bleeter | oh, heya norgs. was just talking to AnduinLothar about some of his reports... he's having difficulty posting stacks, as well as missing (as in wants) some of the old functionality |
| 08:16.19 | norgs | oh, really? |
| 08:16.22 | bleeter | like the askprice (which should be an easy submodule, imo), scan button/progress bar (I know the scan button's a WIP, dunno 'bout progress bar) |
| 08:16.34 | norgs | posting stacks you say? |
| 08:17.01 | AnduinLothar | i got it to do max stacks, but not partial stacks, even if i split them up manually |
| 08:17.03 | bleeter | kinda sounded similar to that red gem error we saw once in testing |
| 08:17.15 | bleeter | but only ever saw it on one item, totally weird |
| 08:17.17 | norgs | Yeah, not too interested in missing button / progress bar at this stage. That kind of stuff will never be in there, best place is in a util module |
| 08:17.58 | bleeter | would a submodule be capable of only displaying green items at < 100%? |
| 08:18.19 | norgs | but not partial stacks? how did you try to get it to do partial stacks? |
| 08:18.36 | AnduinLothar | "think it was set on default/market and then i set a price/per manually, which may have made it fixed. set to 4x and sell 5 stacks, showed info on the detail frame, push the enabled post items button, it's spit some stuff into chat: Posting batch... and then it'd say like Queued up 20 items and the total prices, but then never posted anything (never said auction created)" |
| 08:19.49 | norgs | does it do that with all items, or just that particular one? |
| 08:20.11 | AnduinLothar | dunno, haven't tired with too many, not made of money |
| 08:21.07 | AnduinLothar | it let me post a 4 stack of water |
| 08:21.28 | AnduinLothar | and 2 2x stacks |
| 08:21.39 | norgs | set the time to 2 hours also |
| 08:21.43 | AnduinLothar | the one it didn't work for was Heavy Knothide Leather |
| 08:22.08 | AnduinLothar | which I've since sold |
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| 08:23.55 | AnduinLothar | also, what pricing mode should i use to post the configured % bellow the lowest current price? |
| 08:24.18 | AnduinLothar | market price seems to be like 100% compared to the 300% ones posted |
| 08:24.26 | AnduinLothar | std dev is higher than the lowest |
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| 08:25.44 | norgs | there is no undercutting module at this time. there is also a debate on whether there should be an undercutting module or not |
| 08:25.58 | AnduinLothar | >.< |
| 08:26.21 | norgs | also, you will have to scan for a while before those stats become anywhere near accurate |
| 08:27.03 | AnduinLothar | ok, but the undercutting would be accurate even after 1 scan |
| 08:28.04 | AnduinLothar | since all it needs is the current market prices |
| 08:28.15 | norgs | the question is: Is undercutting healthy for the WoW economy? |
| 08:28.30 | AnduinLothar | healthy for who |
| 08:29.06 | norgs | not who... what |
| 08:29.15 | norgs | what == the wow economy |
| 08:29.26 | norgs | does undercutting ruin the economy? |
| 08:29.29 | Chaotic_D | what's the best place to discuss general WoW (chat and/or forum. lore and game additions) |
| 08:29.46 | AnduinLothar | undercutting is great for people who want to move their merchandise fast. but it's not very good for people who want to make money. |
| 08:30.46 | Chaotic_D | I'm discussing it on a little thread on a little sub-forum of a forum completely unrelated to WoW. |
| 08:30.49 | AnduinLothar | generally available undercutting actively encourages deflation. |
| 08:30.52 | norgs | "A healthy economy is one where the opportunity for arbitrage is limited" |
| 08:32.16 | norgs | if there's lots of undercutting, then there's lots of arbitrage, ergo, economy is unhealthy |
| 08:32.24 | norgs | cause == auctioneer |
| 08:32.50 | norgs | that's what i'm fighting with at the moment |
| 08:33.05 | Chaotic_D | what is arbitrage? |
| 08:33.24 | Chaotic_D | huh. it is a word. |
| 08:33.36 | AnduinLothar | i think if it's not generally availible then someone will make one and it will profit a smaller quantity of people to greater quality |
| 08:33.52 | norgs | I ask people: "What do you want, a fast sale at expense of profit, or to make what the item is worth?"... nobody wants to take the profit hit, everyone wants to sell it first time |
| 08:34.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [dRaCo] (n=drc@p54859BFC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:34.39 | AnduinLothar | that's because the deposit owns you if you dont sell |
| 08:35.00 | norgs | indeed |
| 08:35.34 | AnduinLothar | so the deposit encourages deflation |
| 08:35.35 | norgs | the trouble is, the algorithm they are looking for here is not the "undercut" one |
| 08:35.55 | AnduinLothar | ok, so how about one that matches the lowest price |
| 08:36.01 | norgs | i don't know that i'm smart enough to work out exactly what it is though |
| 08:36.46 | norgs | Match lowest price that's within X% of valuation? |
| 08:36.51 | AnduinLothar | sure |
| 08:37.07 | norgs | Pretty simple, easy to understand, configurable... |
| 08:37.38 | AnduinLothar | or even just match lowest price and have a big red warning if it's bellow valuation with a button to put it up to valuation |
| 08:37.53 | AnduinLothar | or visa versa |
| 08:38.20 | norgs | anyhow, this is why the modular system... so people can make new pricing models |
| 08:39.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cncfanatics (i=evolve@75.100-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 08:40.56 | AnduinLothar | oh, and it'd be nice that since the % of market price are availible ont he broswer if oyu could filte rthe browser by a certain % and also have a slider on the appraiser to set the price/item to a certain % |
| 08:43.32 | norgs | good idea |
| 08:43.58 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-74-62-251-185.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 08:44.25 | norgs | i'm thinking about putting the undercut "width" in as a slider option as well |
| 08:44.34 | AnduinLothar | oh and what's the # in the browser to the left of the time? |
| 08:44.50 | AnduinLothar | ilvl? |
| 08:46.10 | AnduinLothar | yeah, looks liek ilvl |
| 08:46.20 | norgs | It's StackSize, Icon, Name, MinLevel, ItemLevel, TimeLeft, Seller, Bid/Buy, Level |
| 08:46.26 | AnduinLothar | the collumn headers need updating |
| 08:46.57 | norgs | Indeed they do... One day i'll be brave enough to dig back into the Blizzard XML files... |
| 08:47.05 | AnduinLothar | i dont see Level. i see %market |
| 08:47.32 | norgs | s/Level/PriceLevel/ |
| 08:47.35 | AnduinLothar | k |
| 08:48.04 | amro | Industrial: ping |
| 08:48.49 | norgs | Any comments about the CompactUI other than the headers? |
| 08:49.14 | norgs | I've been told that the prices should be beside each other and it should be horizontally scrollable |
| 08:49.33 | norgs | I think that would be ughhh though. |
| 08:49.59 | AnduinLothar | the prices on top of each other are a tad hard to read, but i don't really want it scrolling |
| 08:50.23 | AnduinLothar | i liek that they're at least grey and gold |
| 08:50.47 | AnduinLothar | perhaps if the bg color were diff it might be more readable, not sure |
| 08:51.08 | AnduinLothar | as in diff bg for buyout and bid |
| 08:51.22 | norgs | The grey goes white if it's got a bid and green if it's yours |
| 08:51.33 | amro | norgs: about undercutting, you've got a point. I've seen prices progressively drop for commodities like ore |
| 08:51.36 | AnduinLothar | but really as long as it's sortable by bid or buyout i don't care |
| 08:52.09 | norgs | amro: I've heard the argument go both ways though |
| 08:52.22 | AnduinLothar | also needs to be sortable by the other options like price level and ilvl |
| 08:52.44 | norgs | Acting purely as antagonist here, I could argue that it's simply a matter of excess supply driving the prices down |
| 08:52.54 | AnduinLothar | also i hate the way it scrolls to a screen past the bottom |
| 08:53.31 | AnduinLothar | if that's not intended then you math is off |
| 08:53.32 | norgs | AnduinLothar: Really, I liked that :( |
| 08:53.42 | AnduinLothar | why do you liek it? |
| 08:54.05 | norgs | kinda reminds me of text editors (which I like) |
| 08:54.16 | AnduinLothar | then make it an option imo |
| 08:54.29 | norgs | nah, you're probably right |
| 08:54.29 | AnduinLothar | my code editotrs doen't do that :P |
| 08:54.42 | AnduinLothar | don't* |
| 08:55.19 | AnduinLothar | also you have some debug left on in white printout, dunno if that's on purpose |
| 08:55.21 | norgs | it's the way they do it in the rest of wow, and the first rule of design is be consistent |
| 08:55.41 | AnduinLothar | consistant with the default design imo |
| 08:55.56 | AnduinLothar | or at least optional |
| 08:56.04 | norgs | debug? |
| 08:56.29 | AnduinLothar | anyway. if you decide to keep that then new searches definitely need to reset the scroll bar to top |
| 08:56.55 | AnduinLothar | cause i've searched and been bellow the threashold of max items and seen nothing and thought the search failed |
| 08:57.02 | norgs | "also you have some debug left on in white printout, dunno if that's on purpose" --- How so? |
| 08:57.30 | AnduinLothar | onAuctionItemListUpdate() - unknown update resetting page and trying again |
| 08:57.51 | AnduinLothar | Blizzard's QueryAuctionItems() called |
| 08:57.52 | AnduinLothar | Added request to front of queue |
| 08:57.52 | AnduinLothar | onAuctionItemListUpdate() - query complete |
| 08:57.52 | AnduinLothar | Removed request from queue with result: Complete |
| 08:57.52 | AnduinLothar | Added page 0 to the cache |
| 08:57.53 | AnduinLothar | Page: 1 |
| 08:57.54 | AnduinLothar | Still missing page 1 |
| 08:58.34 | AnduinLothar | all in white |
| 08:58.47 | norgs | hmm, not me... looks like nLog output |
| 08:58.56 | AnduinLothar | nLog? |
| 08:59.02 | norgs | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:59.27 | norgs | Yeah, it'll be coming from old auctioneer, and you've got nLog now |
| 08:59.35 | AnduinLothar | oic |
| 08:59.49 | norgs | guess i shouldn't be distributing nlog with the public preview |
| 09:00.11 | Thunder_Child | norgs log? |
| 09:00.17 | norgs | yeah |
| 09:00.33 | AnduinLothar | is it embedded somewhere? |
| 09:00.43 | norgs | nup, it's an addon |
| 09:00.53 | norgs | you can just turn it off |
| 09:01.00 | AnduinLothar | i dont see an nlog |
| 09:01.08 | AnduinLothar | oh |
| 09:01.09 | norgs | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:01.11 | AnduinLothar | !nlog |
| 09:01.13 | AnduinLothar | ya |
| 09:01.28 | norgs | type /nlog show |
| 09:01.41 | AnduinLothar | already disabled |
| 09:01.52 | norgs | ok :) |
| 09:02.32 | Thunder_Child | hmm..now i see where some of the addons i dont remember geting are coming from |
| 09:02.35 | norgs | it's a custom logging addon that has filters, alert levels etc |
| 09:02.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge sag_ich_nicht (i=bitch2k@85.127.113.63) |
| 09:03.18 | norgs | dunno who decided that turning on chat output by default was, since the whole point of nlog was that it wouldn't output to chat... /sigh |
| 09:03.45 | Thunder_Child | thats ok, thats what....alpha/pre-alphas are for |
| 09:04.08 | Thunder_Child | and betas even |
| 09:04.10 | Thunder_Child | ! |
| 09:04.48 | AnduinLothar | oh btw if you're rewritting askprice: i hacked my version to OR the two smartwords instead of and them |
| 09:05.03 | AnduinLothar | which i find catches a lot more requests |
| 09:05.15 | AnduinLothar | even if some are erronious |
| 09:05.30 | AnduinLothar | since it's defaulted off no one knows about it |
| 09:05.43 | norgs | see, this is a bit of a contention point as well... does AskPrice belong in Auctioneer? |
| 09:06.08 | norgs | or does it belong as a multi-source stand-alone addon? |
| 09:06.16 | AnduinLothar | i don't care either way, as long as it uses my auc database and is availibe, cause i want it |
| 09:06.21 | Kalroth | :D |
| 09:06.23 | norgs | lol |
| 09:06.29 | Thunder_Child | but does everyone |
| 09:06.36 | Kalroth | Karl puts down the smack! |
| 09:06.41 | AnduinLothar | i won't cry if i have to download it sepperately |
| 09:06.52 | norgs | Well, I feel it should stand alone, and source it's data from more places than just auctioneer |
| 09:06.53 | AnduinLothar | is will cry if i can't |
| 09:06.58 | Thunder_Child | ~cry AnduinLothar |
| 09:07.06 | norgs | (like wowecon if you have it etc) |
| 09:08.27 | AnduinLothar | nah, don't help the wowecon boys, that'll jsut make the addon more popular and i wont get nearly as many "Wow, cool addon" comments when I auto-spam guildies with prices |
| 09:09.20 | norgs | well, you don't have to use wowecon... but if you do would you like the option of outputting its data as well? |
| 09:09.30 | AnduinLothar | mreh |
| 09:09.39 | AnduinLothar | care meter is low |
| 09:10.05 | norgs | imagine if you actually liked wowecon (yes there are people like this out there) |
| 09:10.21 | AnduinLothar | then i'd have different opinions! |
| 09:11.03 | norgs | of course :)... and it's my job to predict these different opinions (or at least consider them when brought to my attention) |
| 09:11.35 | AnduinLothar | copy/paste into spreadsheet, ask somewhere else. rinse repeat |
| 09:11.44 | AnduinLothar | or set up a pole |
| 09:12.15 | Kalroth | Paid services are for floozies! |
| 09:12.15 | norgs | although i will admit it does irk me to support a "competitor" even if we |
| 09:12.15 | norgs | aren't really actually competing per-se. |
| 09:12.28 | AnduinLothar | don't talk to me about that. I wrote in Ace2 support for Khaos and they're rewriting ace now |
| 09:12.37 | AnduinLothar | gfg |
| 09:12.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge bl4q (i=Bl@dslb-088-065-174-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:13.52 | AnduinLothar | wonder if i can clone them fast enough to make them rewrite more often and create market turbulence that makes my tried and tested product more appealing... |
| 09:15.55 | norgs | AnduinLothar: Would you mind if the AH scrolled 1 line past the end? |
| 09:16.21 | AnduinLothar | long as it resets when i search |
| 09:16.46 | norgs | I like to see that blankness to know "yes, you're really at the end, and no there's not one hiding just past the end where you can't see it"... call it paranoia |
| 09:17.12 | norgs | just 1 line of blank!!! that's all I ask! |
| 09:17.16 | AnduinLothar | make a -- End -- in the last empty spot |
| 09:17.24 | norgs | lol |
| 09:17.35 | AnduinLothar | i'm serious |
| 09:17.53 | norgs | I know, that's why I'm lolling so hard |
| 09:18.21 | AnduinLothar | why, cause it's such an AWESOME solution? |
| 09:18.49 | norgs | yes, your aversion to blankness |
| 09:19.11 | norgs | maybe I should do a tribute to vim, and put a "~" in the first column |
| 09:19.21 | AnduinLothar | yeah... so those waters i sold were at 1s bellow vendor purchase price as set by the market... |
| 09:19.47 | AnduinLothar | either that or they were at market price and it deducted 1s each for putting it up |
| 09:19.58 | AnduinLothar | vendor purchase price* |
| 09:20.14 | AnduinLothar | I'll survive the loss |
| 09:20.43 | sag_ich_nicht | ah |
| 09:20.44 | sag_ich_nicht | there you are |
| 09:20.48 | sag_ich_nicht | hi there AnduinLothar :O |
| 09:20.49 | AnduinLothar | i'm not here |
| 09:20.53 | sag_ich_nicht | I can see you |
| 09:21.00 | sag_ich_nicht | ~catch AnduinLothar |
| 09:21.01 | purl | ACTION lures AnduinLothar into the crab motel -- AnduinLothar checks in, but won't be checking out... |
| 09:21.15 | AnduinLothar | near the crab nebula? |
| 09:21.26 | AnduinLothar | no interwebs there |
| 09:21.33 | sag_ich_nicht | there are |
| 09:21.35 | sag_ich_nicht | using FTL |
| 09:21.54 | sag_ich_nicht | s/FTL/FTL technology/ |
| 09:23.09 | sag_ich_nicht | now gimme me /o button AnduinLothar :O |
| 09:23.45 | AnduinLothar | it's already built in. you jsut don't have permission to edit officer notes |
| 09:23.59 | sag_ich_nicht | yeah, but i have permission to talk in /o |
| 09:24.10 | AnduinLothar | but there's no function to detect that |
| 09:24.30 | sag_ich_nicht | so add an enable/disable SV and a rightclick menu option for it |
| 09:24.33 | norgs | FTL, beh |
| 09:24.50 | sag_ich_nicht | FTL IS POSSIBLE YOU WILL NOT RUIN MY DREAMS GO AWAY NORGS |
| 09:25.06 | AnduinLothar | why don't you jsut go in and remove the check for that func. or tell your noob GM to let you edit notes |
| 09:25.23 | norgs | I want instant transfer via quantum entangled photons |
| 09:25.37 | sag_ich_nicht | but that would violate causuality! |
| 09:25.43 | AnduinLothar | sounds like ender |
| 09:25.55 | norgs | It is possible I tells you, Eienstien be damned!. |
| 09:25.59 | AnduinLothar | or whatever his AI was called |
| 09:26.18 | sag_ich_nicht | AnduinLothar: because i am lazy, and my GM is not a noob :O |
| 09:26.36 | AnduinLothar | i'm lazy too, and your GM IS noob |
| 09:26.51 | AnduinLothar | AND I'm gonna go play Prey! |
| 09:26.53 | AnduinLothar | so there! |
| 09:26.56 | AnduinLothar | take that! |
| 09:27.04 | norgs | ooh, CUT! |
| 09:27.55 | sag_ich_nicht | wait |
| 09:27.59 | sag_ich_nicht | i'll tell that my GM |
| 09:28.04 | sag_ich_nicht | she'll cut you :O |
| 09:29.26 | sag_ich_nicht | but |
| 09:29.27 | sag_ich_nicht | AnduinLothar |
| 09:31.43 | sag_ich_nicht | do it for me... we have so much in common, we're both lazy, have long blond hair and hate everyone D: |
| 09:34.55 | sag_ich_nicht | also |
| 09:35.39 | sag_ich_nicht | !vs EU Sodexho US Kil'jaeden Wraithhammer |
| 09:36.33 | sag_ich_nicht | oh wait |
| 09:36.37 | sag_ich_nicht | !vs EU Gul'dan Sodexho US Kil'jaeden Wraithhammer |
| 09:36.42 | ThraeBot | sag_ich_nicht: Sodexho vs Wraithhammer! A L70 druid and a L70 paladin square off!; 0/47/14 vs 47/0/14; Wraithhammer wins by 295 TBRs! |
| 09:36.46 | sag_ich_nicht | mhm |
| 09:36.51 | sag_ich_nicht | !vs EU Gul'dan Spagmalin US Kil'jaeden Wraithhammer |
| 09:36.53 | ThraeBot | sag_ich_nicht: Spagmalin vs Wraithhammer! A L70 mage and a L70 paladin square off!; 51/8/2 vs 47/0/14; Spagmalin wins by 566 TBRs! ***OWNED!*** |
| 09:36.57 | sag_ich_nicht | there |
| 09:37.02 | sag_ich_nicht | my GM > you |
| 09:38.58 | sag_ich_nicht | (also shame on you for speccing holy again) |
| 09:39.17 | sag_ich_nicht | actually |
| 09:39.22 | sag_ich_nicht | !vs EU Gul'dan Ruknor US Kil'jaeden Wraithhammer |
| 09:39.22 | ThraeBot | sag_ich_nicht: Ruknor vs Wraithhammer! It's a showdown! But wait! What's this?! Something random? Wraithhammer always haxs, so wins automatically. |
| 09:39.30 | sag_ich_nicht | ...fukkin cheater |
| 09:39.32 | sag_ich_nicht | !vs EU Gul'dan Ruknor US Kil'jaeden Wraithhammer |
| 09:39.34 | ThraeBot | sag_ich_nicht: Ruknor vs Wraithhammer! Two 70 paladins square off!; 0/8/53 vs 47/0/14; Ruknor wins by 834 TBRs! ***OWNED!*** |
| 09:39.39 | sag_ich_nicht | me > you |
| 09:39.42 | sag_ich_nicht | :> |
| 09:43.06 | sag_ich_nicht | ~tbr |
| 09:43.07 | purl | i guess tbr is ThraeBot Ratings, an invention of Thrae for his ThraeBot. It works on a weighted logarithmic algorithm partially dependant on build type that, when used to compare two characters, tries to take into account which classes are fighting each other. or "to be released" |
| 09:46.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge AnduinLothar (n=AnduinLo@ip72-211-209-199.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 09:46.51 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v AnduinLothar] by ChanServ |
| 09:50.26 | Punkie` | !c EU Gul'dan Ruknor |
| 09:50.34 | ThraeBot | Punkie`: Ruknor, Level 70 Human Paladin (0/8/53). 7897 HP; 4818 Mana; 95 mana regen; 7 mp5; 7647 Armour; 1346 AP; 227.6 Melee DPS; 21.81% melee crit; 60 melee hit; 22 +spell dmg/heal; 43 holy dmg (65); 46 defense; 10.17% dodge; 5.76% block; 5 resilience;[[ TBR: 1716 ][ Link: http://tinyurl.com/yrmjmj ][ Talents: http://tinyurl.com/2uynsq ][ Updated: Fri Aug 31 05:50:14 2007 ]] |
| 09:50.50 | Punkie` | human?! |
| 10:09.01 | sag_ich_nicht | yeah. |
| 10:09.20 | sag_ich_nicht | mhm |
| 10:09.29 | sag_ich_nicht | logged in pvp equip it seems, else it would be 22.99% crit |
| 10:09.35 | sag_ich_nicht | i need more mana & more AP(and more crit ><) |
| 10:10.09 | sag_ich_nicht | Punkie` what's so weird about human? :P |
| 10:10.15 | Punkie` | they suck |
| 10:10.26 | sag_ich_nicht | play a rogue huh? :P |
| 10:10.32 | Punkie` | gnome or gtfo |
| 10:10.37 | Punkie` | if you cant be a gnome, reroll! |
| 10:10.42 | sag_ich_nicht | no gnome paladins, gtfo |
| 10:10.47 | Punkie` | reroll! |
| 10:10.55 | sag_ich_nicht | human is the best race for retribution besides bloodelves, gtf |
| 10:10.57 | sag_ich_nicht | *gtfo |
| 10:11.04 | Punkie` | is it female? |
| 10:11.09 | sag_ich_nicht | no. |
| 10:11.19 | Punkie` | just keeps getting worse :( |
| 10:11.44 | Punkie` | if it's not a female it should be a dorf! |
| 10:11.55 | sag_ich_nicht | no. |
| 10:12.13 | sag_ich_nicht | human has the better racials & basestats for retribution :P |
| 10:12.33 | Punkie` | well, personally I never ever looked at basestats for my class :P |
| 10:12.44 | sag_ich_nicht | well you suck |
| 10:12.48 | Punkie` | nah |
| 10:12.55 | Punkie` | looks > 1-2 stats |
| 10:13.13 | sag_ich_nicht | yeah well i like my looks |
| 10:13.28 | sag_ich_nicht | dwarfs have a failure 2H swing animation |
| 10:13.30 | Punkie` | i hate the way humans stand and seem to /sigh |
| 10:13.49 | sag_ich_nicht | i love it. i /sigh all the time anyway |
| 10:13.53 | sag_ich_nicht | saves me the time of typing it |
| 10:13.54 | sag_ich_nicht | >:O |
| 10:14.10 | Punkie` | also humans seem to look left and right a lot on their mounts |
| 10:14.17 | sag_ich_nicht | yeah |
| 10:14.26 | Punkie` | kinda annoying feature :D |
| 10:14.45 | Punkie` | anyway, gnomes are awesome ! |
| 10:14.50 | sag_ich_nicht | yeah |
| 10:15.01 | sag_ich_nicht | tell that my lvl 12 gnome mage |
| 10:15.07 | sag_ich_nicht | and my lvl 15 gnome warlock |
| 10:15.26 | Punkie` | i will! |
| 10:17.53 | Punkie` | i levelled a gnome warlock from 1-10 in like 2 hours the other day, as soon as you get fear its so easy |
| 10:24.23 | cncfanatics | anyone around here using flexbar yet ? I'd need some testers for tooltips |
| 10:30.36 | Wobin_ | !c us argent dawn richeldis |
| 10:30.43 | ThraeBot | Wobin_: Richeldis, Level 70 Night Elf Hunter (46/15/0). 7925 HP; 5743 Mana; 86 mana regen; 4 mp5; 5187 Armour; 1496 AP; 195 Melee DPS; 14.26% melee crit; 72 melee hit; 1439 RAP; 297.7 Ranged DPS; 20.57% ranged crit; 72 ranged hit; 20.11% dodge; 10 nature resist (+10);[[ TBR: 1670 ][ Link: http://tinyurl.com/yvutpq ][ Talents: http://tinyurl.com/2nmtdl ][ Updated: Fri Aug 31 06:41:18 2007 ]] |
| 10:30.52 | Wobin_ | !c us argent dawn shalfurne |
| 10:30.58 | ThraeBot | Wobin_: Shalfurne, Level 70 Night Elf Hunter (41/20/0). 7117 HP; 6073 Mana; 160 mana regen; 72 mp5; 5022 Armour; 1383 AP; 195.9 Melee DPS; 12.55% melee crit; 121 melee hit; 1314 RAP; 272.4 Ranged DPS; 17.71% ranged crit; 121 ranged hit; 13.54% dodge; 10 nature resist (+10); +33 all resists (+10 nature);[[ TBR: 1195 ][ Link: http://tinyurl.com/2cl5dp ][ Talents: http://tinyurl.com/34d5yk ][ Updated: Fri Aug 31 06:41:35 2007 ]] |
| 10:32.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Dotted (n=nnscript@ip-22-215.bnaa.dk) |
| 10:37.52 | AnduinLothar | :) http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1371638212 |
| 10:38.01 | AnduinLothar | yay press releases |
| 10:38.15 | sag_ich_nicht | that's nice |
| 10:38.17 | Punkie` | why dont you add the sid :( |
| 10:38.20 | sag_ich_nicht | now scroll up and read my insults. |
| 10:45.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kazie (n=k@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 10:52.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kalroth (n=kalroth@0x573f1066.hjnqu1.broadband.tele.dk) |
| 10:54.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge amro_ (n=chatzill@82.101.184.181) |
| 10:58.48 | AnduinLothar | oh man, i win |
| 10:59.11 | sag_ich_nicht | [11:39] <ThraeBot> sag_ich_nicht: Ruknor vs Wraithhammer! Two 70 paladins square off!; 0/8/53 vs 47/0/14; Ruknor wins by 834 TBRs! ***OWNED!*** |
| 10:59.12 | sag_ich_nicht | [11:39] <sag_ich_nicht> me > you |
| 10:59.15 | sag_ich_nicht | no you don't |
| 10:59.18 | AnduinLothar | I got FluidFrames to support dynamically generated frames (as long as they have a global name) |
| 10:59.32 | sag_ich_nicht | AnduinLothar okay |
| 10:59.35 | sag_ich_nicht | i correct myself |
| 10:59.37 | sag_ich_nicht | you DO win |
| 10:59.39 | zenzelezz | AnduinLothar: nice :) |
| 10:59.42 | AnduinLothar | like the WorldStateCaptureBars |
| 10:59.44 | sag_ich_nicht | and Shirik loses. |
| 11:00.02 | sag_ich_nicht | (and so does Cidan. again.) |
| 11:01.08 | zenzelezz | I swear one of my HDDs are stuck in I-want-to-die mode or something... checked all my fans several times, they're all running fine, HDDs seem the last alternative for this loud, repetitive spinning noise |
| 11:01.55 | sag_ich_nicht | loud repetive spinning noise? enjoy your failing ball bearing |
| 11:02.46 | zenzelezz | since I'm still not certain where the source of the noise is this would be a nice excuse to upgrade the computer |
| 11:06.28 | AnduinLothar | buy a whole new one |
| 11:07.04 | zenzelezz | pretty much, the only remaining pieces would be the DVD-burner, PSU and case |
| 11:07.05 | sag_ich_nicht | I'm gonna upgrade my CPU soon |
| 11:07.21 | sag_ich_nicht | Phenom FX 2.6 Ghz >:O |
| 11:07.40 | zenzelezz | been holding off on upgrading for some time since I'll have to jump on PCI-E and can't just bring along my 9800 Pro anymore, among other things |
| 11:07.42 | sag_ich_nicht | *FX-80 |
| 11:07.46 | zenzelezz | starting to show its age |
| 11:09.22 | sag_ich_nicht | ... |
| 11:09.29 | sag_ich_nicht | lol AMD changed the frequency again |
| 11:09.35 | sag_ich_nicht | down to 2.4 ghz |
| 11:09.36 | sag_ich_nicht | fail |
| 11:13.01 | Rallion | yeah, zenzeless, that little issue made me really tentative about my recent upgrade...I usually like to do as little at a time as possible, but here I needed to get new motherboard, CPU, video card, and RAM all at once |
| 11:13.12 | Rallion | plus a new power supply to run it |
| 11:13.30 | AnduinLothar | i had a 9800 Pro in my G5 |
| 11:13.37 | sag_ich_nicht | lol. |
| 11:13.40 | sag_ich_nicht | www.moanmyip.com |
| 11:13.42 | AnduinLothar | replaced that last november |
| 11:14.17 | zenzelezz | my 9800 is definitely the videocard that's lasted me the longest |
| 11:14.25 | AnduinLothar | it was good |
| 11:14.51 | AnduinLothar | my processor was definitely the bottleneck in my G5 |
| 11:14.57 | AnduinLothar | 1.6ghz |
| 11:15.05 | AnduinLothar | 64bit tho |
| 11:15.13 | AnduinLothar | not that that matters for games |
| 11:15.27 | amro_ | "This was done as it makes it harder (but not impossible) for the programmer to create problems such as memory leaks." <- is it just me or does that imply that programmers go out of their way to create problems? |
| 11:15.39 | AnduinLothar | Now my bottle neck is my HD read speed and 2gb ram |
| 11:15.40 | zenzelezz | lol |
| 11:15.48 | zenzelezz | @ amro |
| 11:16.11 | AnduinLothar | wtb 10k rpm if it weren't so expensive |
| 11:16.14 | zenzelezz | I'm hoping only one of my HDDs are dying, the old IDE one |
| 11:16.23 | AnduinLothar | I'll prolly just wait till solid state is cheeper |
| 11:17.14 | AnduinLothar | "Samsung is upping the ante in the solid state drive market, announcing it plans to ship a 64 GB, 1.8-inch model in the second quarter of 2007." |
| 11:18.08 | Rallion | one of my older drives starting throwing errors like crazy a couple years ago...it doesn't always start up on the first try |
| 11:18.15 | Rallion | still works though |
| 11:19.32 | zenzelezz | that's the thing with mine, it still works fine as far as I can tell, but the noise leads me to believe it's only a matter of time :-p |
| 11:23.14 | AnduinLothar | 1GB Hi-Speed Turbo SATA Flash Disk Drive 2.5 Inch $148.00 USD |
| 11:23.22 | AnduinLothar | 128GB Hi-Speed Turbo Plus SATA Flash Disk Drive 2.5 Inch $4,760.00 USD |
| 11:24.06 | AnduinLothar | yeah.. those are gonna have to come down in price |
| 11:24.13 | Rallion | lol |
| 11:24.18 | AnduinLothar | they're really not that expensive to make i'm sure |
| 11:24.51 | Kalroth | Well the 122GB drive should have been 18,944 USD |
| 11:24.54 | Kalroth | 128* |
| 11:25.09 | AnduinLothar | should have been? |
| 11:25.13 | Punkie` | what's the transfer speed on SSD's anyway? |
| 11:25.21 | Kalroth | 1GB for 148 USD |
| 11:25.23 | AnduinLothar | http://www.memorydepot.com/ssd_disk.asp |
| 11:25.31 | Kalroth | 128*148 = 18944! |
| 11:25.37 | AnduinLothar | >.< |
| 11:26.02 | Industrial | amro: pong |
| 11:26.39 | AnduinLothar | well if i got a 10gb i could put wow on it |
| 11:26.42 | amro | Industrial: pm |
| 11:26.56 | AnduinLothar | or 8 |
| 11:27.08 | AnduinLothar | not rly worth $415 to me tho |
| 11:27.38 | sag_ich_nicht | why the fuck would you need such huge flash memories for anything but permanent backup? |
| 11:27.58 | AnduinLothar | speed |
| 11:28.08 | sag_ich_nicht | you can't use them as HDD, it will stop working after like 100000 re-writes |
| 11:28.23 | AnduinLothar | prove it |
| 11:28.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=MoonWolf@g34212.upc-g.chello.nl) |
| 11:28.25 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v MoonWolf] by ChanServ |
| 11:29.02 | sag_ich_nicht | AnduinLothar okay take a flash memory stick, copy your WoW folder on it, lowlevel format the stick, rinse repeat ~100000 times |
| 11:29.06 | sag_ich_nicht | stick dead. |
| 11:29.29 | AnduinLothar | flahs memory stick prolly isn't the same tech as the hdd's neh? |
| 11:29.31 | sag_ich_nicht | you can use a hybrid drive and store the fucking memory image of your OS or the kernel on it for insanly improved bootspeed |
| 11:29.36 | sag_ich_nicht | it is -_- |
| 11:29.58 | AnduinLothar | do you even get to choose on a hybrid? |
| 11:30.01 | Kalroth | "R/W Cycle:1,000,000 Times" |
| 11:30.43 | Kalroth | But the speed isn't that impressive |
| 11:30.44 | Kalroth | "Burst Rate: Read:up to 33MB/Sec, Write:up to 20MB/Sec " |
| 11:30.57 | AnduinLothar | hmm... have i launched wow 1million times ever? |
| 11:31.01 | krka | i think it's writes that's limited on flash, right? |
| 11:31.07 | krka | reads should be free |
| 11:31.08 | sag_ich_nicht | AnduinLothar proper drivers provided, yes. |
| 11:31.13 | Kalroth | Yup krka |
| 11:31.16 | sag_ich_nicht | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_state_drive#Disadvantages |
| 11:32.01 | sag_ich_nicht | commonly re-written stuff like logfiles will easily exceed 300k writecycles, especially on a journaling filesystem |
| 11:32.51 | sag_ich_nicht | also |
| 11:33.17 | sag_ich_nicht | Kalroth you really trust that 1M number? because the MTBF for normal HDDs is a lie, too, as proven in multiple studies |
| 11:34.06 | Kalroth | sag_ich_nicht: It's obviously best case scenario, but I'd still put it a bit higher than 100k. |
| 11:34.41 | AnduinLothar | meh, I have faith that most of those disadvantages will be removed with ssd tech advance and new drivers in subsequent years. They don't sound like walls, more like problems that no one has bothered to solve because the medium is too expensive to be profitable yet. |
| 11:34.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 11:35.02 | Kalroth | AnduinLothar: Of course, but we were talking current drives :) |
| 11:35.08 | AnduinLothar | YOU maybe |
| 11:35.13 | Kalroth | No, you too! |
| 11:35.20 | JoshBorke | ~lart AnduinLothar |
| 11:35.20 | purl | duct-tapes AnduinLothar to the floor and drools on him |
| 11:35.25 | AnduinLothar | onyl to the extent that they were too expensive |
| 11:35.30 | Kalroth | ~fast JoshBorke |
| 11:35.31 | JoshBorke | i got your back Kalroth |
| 11:35.33 | Kalroth | aw |
| 11:35.39 | krka | i for once agree with Kalroth |
| 11:35.46 | krka | even though he's a crazy danish person |
| 11:35.52 | JoshBorke | what's this discussion on anyway? |
| 11:35.59 | AnduinLothar | I win. gg |
| 11:36.00 | Kalroth | AnduinLothar: I got my homies backing me up, I've already won! |
| 11:36.06 | AnduinLothar | too slow! |
| 11:36.10 | Kalroth | Nuh uh |
| 11:36.31 | AnduinLothar | hmm, how's the 10k market "today" |
| 11:37.57 | AnduinLothar | wtb reviews newer than 2004 |
| 11:38.10 | AnduinLothar | google needs to sort by date |
| 11:39.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dabujo (i=xx@p54ACA5A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:39.50 | AnduinLothar | >.< http://www.computersallservices.com/jez/catalogmodule/technicalSpecifications.jsp?part_num=89102A |
| 11:40.16 | AnduinLothar | here we go, this is decent: http://www.kingli.com/upgrade_2.asp?p=Hard_drive.WESTERN_DIGITAL.WD740ADFD |
| 11:41.09 | AnduinLothar | or 150gb for $238.15 |
| 11:44.35 | AnduinLothar | $189 from ZipZoomfly |
| 11:44.39 | AnduinLothar | not bad at all |
| 11:45.16 | AnduinLothar | 5-year no questions asked warranty |
| 11:46.03 | krka | google doesn't sort, google searches! |
| 11:46.17 | sag_ich_nicht | AnduinLothar |
| 11:46.22 | sag_ich_nicht | you fool |
| 11:46.31 | sag_ich_nicht | just use RAID 0 if you want more speed |
| 11:46.32 | sag_ich_nicht | :P |
| 11:46.51 | sag_ich_nicht | the more drives you add, the faster it gets(assuming you have a good raidcontroller) |
| 11:46.53 | AnduinLothar | yeah, i do have a spare hd i was thinkign of doign that to |
| 11:46.55 | sag_ich_nicht | HDDs are deadcheap |
| 11:47.13 | sag_ich_nicht | i personally run a RAID 0+1(raid controller doesn't support 1+0 :() |
| 11:47.27 | sag_ich_nicht | [C:] 352,072.95 MB free, 610,477.81 MB total. |
| 11:47.30 | sag_ich_nicht | >:O |
| 11:47.53 | sag_ich_nicht | still 45 seconds WoW loading because of addons |
| 11:47.58 | sag_ich_nicht | (instant if i disable them all) |
| 11:48.11 | sag_ich_nicht | okay, g2g, driving home :O |
| 11:53.01 | krka | sag_ich_nicht: are you sure that's because of hd? |
| 11:53.06 | krka | i think it's more of cpu and memory |
| 11:53.23 | krka | physically reading through all the lua files is fast |
| 11:53.53 | JoshBorke | says you |
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| 12:01.05 | krka | it would be fairly easy to run a test program that simply loadfile all the lua code in your addon folders |
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| 12:10.09 | AnduinLothar | mmm, need another hdd to raid |
| 12:10.47 | AnduinLothar | only have 1 blank one. one formatted for vista and one formatted for mac os 10.4 no good way to shuffle data to set up the raid |
| 12:11.09 | JoshBorke | get rid of vista |
| 12:11.11 | JoshBorke | problem solved |
| 12:11.17 | AnduinLothar | true... |
| 12:12.12 | AnduinLothar | i could also reinstall vista once I've set up the raid... |
| 12:17.24 | krka | time find|grep ".lua$"|xargs lua test.lua |
| 12:17.31 | krka | real 0m0.539s |
| 12:17.47 | krka | test.lua: for k, v in next,{...} do loadfile(v) end |
| 12:18.04 | krka | so... all my addons were read from disk and compiled in less than a second |
| 12:18.22 | krka | i dont think hard drive speed is a factor when booting up addons |
| 12:18.55 | AnduinLothar | only if it looks for files fromt he toc that don't exist |
| 12:19.38 | AnduinLothar | heh, i have 7gb of trash in my trash can |
| 12:19.48 | zenzelezz | O_o |
| 12:21.26 | JoshBorke | krka: i doubt the wow implementation is correct |
| 12:21.38 | JoshBorke | s/correct/as fast/ |
| 12:23.48 | zenzelezz | why is that? |
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| 12:24.30 | JoshBorke | because it does all sorts of other crazy stuff! |
| 12:25.10 | norgs | (includng XML, creating frames, actually *gasp* executing functions, etc) |
| 12:25.18 | zenzelezz | most of the stuff it does is after reading the files |
| 12:25.28 | zenzelezz | which would be memory + CPU |
| 12:26.23 | JoshBorke | locating files that aren't there! |
| 12:26.25 | norgs | not necessarily |
| 12:26.38 | norgs | creating frames = loading textures |
| 12:27.13 | norgs | don't forget that *all* textures are verified at load |
| 12:27.48 | zenzelezz | should still happen after reading the .xml and .lua files in my opinion; but I'll admit I've never been much for parser internals |
| 12:28.11 | norgs | as a matter of fact, i wouldn't be surprised if wow doesn't go and do a manifest of the filesystem at load-time |
| 12:28.45 | norgs | well, that's what we're saying, just cause the parser has finished, doesn't mean that it's not going to read the hard drive |
| 12:28.56 | norgs | it's still got quite a bit of loading left to do |
| 12:29.12 | norgs | and loading files from those mpq's is somewhat tricky business |
| 12:29.28 | krka | JoshBorke: you dont think wow uses the plain compiler? |
| 12:30.07 | krka | yeah, texture stuff is probably the only thing that has a significant impact from a hard disk standpoint |
| 12:30.50 | JoshBorke | beats me, i'm just being argumentative |
| 12:30.53 | JoshBorke | taataa for now |
| 12:35.09 | sag_ich_nicht | [13:52] <krka> sag_ich_nicht: are you sure that's because of hd? <--i know it's not the HDD, just saying :P |
| 12:36.40 | sag_ich_nicht | [14:28] <+norgs> as a matter of fact, i wouldn't be surprised if wow doesn't go and do a manifest of the filesystem at load-time <--which explains why it takes for ever to start up when you run it first |
| 12:37.07 | sag_ich_nicht | we should analyze it and complain |
| 12:37.28 | Industrial | AnduinLothar: can I anchor frames a-la setpoint with FluidFrames? The only thing I really want is absolute value control. To have something exactly in the middle without having to pixel-fuck with my mouse. |
| 12:37.36 | norgs | well, have you ever noticed how wow doesn't recognize any new textures after load? |
| 12:37.39 | Industrial | AnduinLothar: or is it only drag/resize? |
| 12:37.41 | sag_ich_nicht | Industrial: yes you can |
| 12:37.47 | Industrial | good >:) |
| 12:37.50 | sag_ich_nicht | Industrial: but you'll have to edit the saved vars :P |
| 12:37.58 | Industrial | bad |
| 12:38.03 | sag_ich_nicht | then you can pixel place it :P |
| 12:38.09 | sag_ich_nicht | or |
| 12:38.14 | Industrial | that wont do :P |
| 12:38.19 | sag_ich_nicht | you dig into the code and find the function that sets the position :P |
| 12:38.59 | sag_ich_nicht | ...geez |
| 12:39.04 | sag_ich_nicht | AMD has created SSE5 |
| 12:39.05 | sag_ich_nicht | -_- |
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| 12:42.33 | Kalroth | sag_ich_nicht: Because SSE1-4 wasn't enough |
| 12:42.46 | Polarina | ? |
| 12:42.52 | Polarina | Enough for what? |
| 12:43.15 | sag_ich_nicht | Kalroth: i know |
| 12:43.26 | zenzelezz | I thought SSE used to be an Intel innovation |
| 12:43.46 | Kalroth | Yup |
| 12:43.54 | Kalroth | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streaming_SIMD_Extensions |
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| 12:56.21 | sag_ich_nicht | AnduinLothar: so when is that mighty FF update coming? ;O |
| 12:56.31 | AnduinLothar | yesterday |
| 12:56.34 | sag_ich_nicht | o rly |
| 12:57.02 | sag_ich_nicht | i only see 1.6 there, and that doesn't say anything about dynamically created frames :P |
| 12:58.17 | Kalroth | The sarcasm is strong in this one. |
| 12:59.02 | AnduinLothar | http://www.cosmosui.org/addons.php?info=FluidFrames |
| 12:59.18 | sag_ich_nicht | oic |
| 12:59.35 | sag_ich_nicht | not commited yet to stable? :P |
| 13:00.37 | AnduinLothar | there's only one commit flow |
| 13:00.44 | krka | oooh nice: "For example, the Advanced Encryption Standard (AES) algorithm gets a factor of 5 performance improvement by using the new SSE5 extension" |
| 13:01.02 | sag_ich_nicht | ...that means you can also attack it 5 times as fast |
| 13:01.37 | zenzelezz | like people ever use their computers for something malicious! |
| 13:02.05 | sag_ich_nicht | yeah... like they ever. |
| 13:02.06 | krka | right... a factor of 5 for attacking aes is a big deal |
| 13:02.34 | sag_ich_nicht | krka i know i know, just saying, and my statement wasn't very accurate anyway |
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| 13:45.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge alestane (n=nevin@tyadm179.bu.edu) |
| 13:46.12 | alestane | One thing I like about the Forum Poster tool is that it's reducing the amount of "Well, if you had read the stickies like a polite person..." that forum noobs used to get subjected to. |
| 13:47.59 | cog|away | That's exactly why i wrote it... (me being the one who used to be doing the subjecting) |
| 13:48.15 | cog|away | s/the sub/most of the sub/ |
| 13:49.11 | cog|away | and yet it still has a hint of snide wit by announcing the fact that it was generated by a computer program ;) |
| 13:49.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Lin (n=igor@unaffiliated/lincity) |
| 13:50.24 | alestane | Yes, I mean I know why we were irritated, I was too, but it seemed like if you walked into that forum and posted a question, either without reading the stickies or admitting that they hadn't found the answer in there, it was a really hostile environment to walk into. I think the automated response is pretty good - basically like getting a customer service IVR when you call the support line. |
| 13:51.35 | alestane | Come up with a weird enough question and eventually you will get a real human response, but as long as you're asking the same questions as everyone else you get the same answer that they got. |
| 13:51.35 | cog|away | What about this post? I mean, look at the title? :( |
| 13:51.37 | cog|away | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1371548335&sid=1 |
| 13:51.55 | cog|away | must … resist … urge to ream |
| 13:52.09 | amro | Insenerate. I love that spell |
| 13:52.09 | alestane | Never mind the CAPS, they can't even spell. |
| 13:52.24 | amro | s/inse/inser/ |
| 13:52.38 | amro | gah case sensitivity ftl |
| 13:52.48 | art3mis | http://www.bbspot.com/News/2007/08/top-11-reasons-the-internet-is-better-than-school.html |
| 13:53.19 | alestane | That's a scary concept...like the "everything I'll ever need to know is on Wikipedia" argument. |
| 13:53.49 | cog|away | Woah... if you move one of the Os, Doorknob becomes Dorknoob, which I think applies better... |
| 13:54.22 | Polarina | alestane: Link. |
| 13:55.05 | alestane | cog|away: damn near lol'd |
| 13:55.43 | alestane | Polarina: it was in a webcomic at applegeeks.com, in their AGLite ministrip. It was a while ago. |
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| 13:56.28 | cncfanatics | ! |
| 13:58.33 | art3mis | http://www.dynamism.com/hello-kitty-nec/main.shtml |
| 13:59.17 | cogwheel | wonder if it would run wow :P |
| 13:59.26 | art3mis | heh ive got the ui for it! |
| 13:59.49 | cogwheel | shitty video card with shared ram... |
| 13:59.53 | art3mis | actualy played last night with that ui, and i must say its not as annoying as you'd think it would be |
| 14:00.12 | cogwheel | hehe |
| 14:00.20 | alestane | Has a gig of ram, a sempron and a Radeon XPRess 1100...I don't know how well but it should run it. |
| 14:00.22 | cogwheel | do you have quartz with pink & blue bars? |
| 14:00.29 | amro | $2199.00 |
| 14:00.36 | art3mis | that is until you're running back some place and realize that you've got friggin hello kitty along the bottom |
| 14:00.44 | cogwheel | <.< |
| 14:00.50 | art3mis | nah i keep forgetting to get it |
| 14:01.04 | art3mis | just been using the castbar in the hud |
| 14:01.52 | art3mis | have to see about changing the colours in lightheaded and the quest details in questfu as well |
| 14:02.47 | art3mis | the thing thats gonna be kind of annoying is if i release it, since it's got a bunch of ace stuff in it it will require someone to basically do a sed on the entire wtf directory to change the profile names from a filler to thiers |
| 14:03.21 | art3mis | someone really needs to makea ui "installer" as it were, like mazzles or something |
| 14:06.02 | alestane | NOt wikipedia related but http://applegeeks.com/comics/viewcomic.php?issue=109 |
| 14:08.23 | cogwheel | alestane: now can i be an asshole? http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1371548335&pageNo=1&sid=1#1 |
| 14:09.09 | cogwheel | or at least "misspell" his name? |
| 14:09.39 | alestane | Wow he's dense. |
| 14:09.47 | alestane | Allow me. |
| 14:11.15 | alestane | Up to you if you want to add something of your own of course. |
| 14:11.18 | Kalroth | He's a warlock, enough said! |
| 14:11.56 | alestane | Um, I'M a warlock... |
| 14:12.18 | art3mis | was that meant as some sort of defence? |
| 14:12.30 | art3mis | defense |
| 14:12.37 | cogwheel | no making excuses for the dorknoob :P |
| 14:13.10 | cogwheel | alestane: I couldn't resist |
| 14:13.18 | cogwheel | (responded) |
| 14:13.44 | art3mis | hahaha "We're sorry the spell insernerate Does not exist, pelase un-installed World of Warcraft and reinstall to verify it's existence." |
| 14:13.54 | cogwheel | hehe |
| 14:13.57 | art3mis | thats a good resposne |
| 14:14.00 | art3mis | response |
| 14:14.09 | cogwheel | oh the iorny |
| 14:14.11 | cogwheel | :P |
| 14:14.26 | Kalroth | :D |
| 14:15.45 | art3mis | heh |
| 14:15.58 | art3mis | it's my gayboard, not me |
| 14:16.11 | Kalroth | Like keyboard like typer! |
| 14:16.17 | art3mis | no matter what i actually type it puts in what it "thinks" i REALLY wanted to type |
| 14:16.46 | art3mis | my fingers have hated me ever since i visited yer mom Kalroth ;) |
| 14:16.50 | art3mis | ~rimshot |
| 14:16.51 | purl | ba-dum CHH |
| 14:17.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire (n=cladhair@cpe-74-79-41-65.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 14:17.35 | Kalroth | No wonder she was in such a bad mood when I visited her last time. |
| 14:17.35 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o cladhaire] by ChanServ |
| 14:17.57 | art3mis | i know eh? |
| 14:18.23 | art3mis | it's not my fault they're like 10" sausages. |
| 14:18.39 | cladhaire | oh my.. walked in on the wrong part of this conversation :P |
| 14:19.10 | zenzelezz | you have 10" fingers? |
| 14:19.18 | alestane | Yes, cladhaire, you so did. |
| 14:19.51 | Industrial | I want the new lovely complex :( |
| 14:19.52 | art3mis | cladhaire: it depends on whether you "wanted" to hear the rest i suppose |
| 14:20.08 | alestane | Polarina: Here's part of it. |
| 14:20.12 | alestane | http://www.applegeeks.com/lite/index.php?aglitecomic=2006-05-19 |
| 14:20.20 | Industrial | but for now yay new naruto |
| 14:20.40 | cogwheel | peace biziches |
| 14:20.57 | |FF|Im2good4u | bah it seems i got a long nite o debugging >.< i clickking on my list of button and all of a sudden they where all gone while they do exist >.< and are Show()n |
| 14:21.39 | Thrae | Industrial: Lemme save you the trouble -- <Sasuke> omgemo <Sakura> omgobsession <Naruto> omgifarted |
| 14:21.55 | art3mis | if !CoE state=up;cast inseminate^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hsermerate^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hincinerate; |
| 14:22.37 | alestane | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:23.12 | Industrial | Thrae: DUDE |
| 14:23.13 | Industrial | NO |
| 14:23.15 | Industrial | fs |
| 14:23.17 | Industrial | "| |
| 14:23.18 | Kalroth | hahah |
| 14:24.50 | alestane | I liked the episodes of Naruto that I was, but I got the feeling it was gonna go on way too long and consist way too much of martial arts tournaments where one match lasts three episodes. |
| 14:25.07 | alestane | And I already wen through that with Recca no Honou. |
| 14:25.41 | Thrae | I hated the Recca anime only because it stopped short. |
| 14:26.06 | alestane | Right now I'm waiting or more Claymore to get fansubbed. |
| 14:26.53 | sag_ich_nicht | alestane and by Recca no Honou you mean Dragonball Z. |
| 14:27.01 | art3mis | naruto is boring |
| 14:27.01 | sag_ich_nicht | AMIRITE |
| 14:27.11 | alestane | s/ or / for / |
| 14:27.29 | art3mis | bleach is getting less than good(on cartoon netowrk i mean) |
| 14:27.49 | alestane | I do not, in fact, but many of the same points apply...I didn't watch DBZ (or any DB really) for much the same reason. |
| 14:28.05 | art3mis | because db/dbz sucked? |
| 14:29.51 | Josh_Borke | what is currently going on in bleach? |
| 14:37.42 | zenzelezz | apparently not a lot |
| 14:38.38 | amro | art3mis: dbz sucked, db is gold |
| 14:38.45 | art3mis | on adult swim they're just going through that battle grouns or whatever last i saw anyways |
| 14:38.56 | Industrial | I want the new Lovely Complex :< |
| 14:39.24 | Shirik|zZz | + |
| 14:39.32 | alestane | Polarina: This is the one I was thinking of: http://applegeeks.com/comics/viewcomic.php?issue=236 |
| 14:45.44 | Shirik|zZz | http://lostcontemplations.com/Auax/Caramel/Caramel.html |
| 14:51.09 | alestane | Alecthar is all grown up now...*sniff* http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1371548335&sid=1#5 |
| 14:52.26 | alestane | Was he on before under some other name? He seems to have gone from total anonymity to snarking at people about the stickies in about a week and half. |
| 14:53.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Garns (n=blub@muedsl-82-207-195-179.citykom.de) |
| 14:53.59 | Shirik|zZz | I'm pretty sure he was yelling at the regulars a few weeks (1?) ago |
| 14:54.07 | Shirik|zZz | and now he's becoming just like us :P |
| 14:55.26 | alestane | I said before to Cogwheel that one of the greatest blessings of his poster tool is that it makes it easier for us to not be mean to the noobs...but some people you just can't help. |
| 15:02.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wraanger (n=Valle@89-178-150-56.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 15:03.02 | Wraanger | heyaz |
| 15:03.45 | Shirik|zZz | hi |
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| 15:04.17 | alestane | I still don't quite get what 'environments' are about in Lua...anyone got a paragraph explanation? |
| 15:04.35 | Shirik | same as any other language. You can view it yourself as the place where you store variables |
| 15:04.52 | Shirik | if you're in the same environment as another addon, you will be sharing variables |
| 15:05.04 | Shirik | that's the simplest explanation I can give you |
| 15:05.14 | Shirik | it's leaving a few things out but it's really all you need to understand |
| 15:05.29 | Shirik | you can change the environment too |
| 15:05.44 | Shirik | lua> foo = 4; setfenv(0, {}); return foo; |
| 15:05.44 | cladbot | Shirik: [string "foo = 4; setfenv(0, {}); return foo;"]:1: attempt to call global 'setfenv' (a nil value) |
| 15:05.47 | Shirik | bah |
| 15:05.51 | Shirik | clad|away blocked setfenv |
| 15:06.15 | Shirik | p.s. don't run that in WoW |
| 15:06.24 | Shirik | changing the environment will get rid of all your saved vars :) |
| 15:06.34 | Shirik | s/envir/global envir/ |
| 15:07.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cog|work (n=chatzill@intra.kistlerwine.com) |
| 15:07.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge nuoHep (i=nuoHep@85.192.55.242) |
| 15:07.21 | Shirik | cog|work: http://lostcontemplations.com/Auax/Caramel/Caramel.html |
| 15:07.27 | Shirik | eh wait |
| 15:07.29 | Shirik | you're at work |
| 15:07.40 | cog|work | ut oh |
| 15:07.50 | cog|work | meh... sound is off :P |
| 15:07.54 | Shirik | that's the best part :( |
| 15:08.37 | cog|work | i like dance music :) |
| 15:08.58 | Shirik | I <3 this kind of music |
| 15:09.08 | alestane | So, a better question: how do getfenv and setfenv help me? |
| 15:09.21 | Shirik | in 99% of cases, they don't |
| 15:09.28 | Shirik | they're generally used for some very strange things |
| 15:09.34 | Shirik | take Cide's bot for example |
| 15:09.40 | cog|work | getfenv is useful for certain performance enhancements |
| 15:09.51 | Shirik | I think it uses setfenv. Reason being, Cide can switch out of the standard environment when running your code |
| 15:10.09 | Shirik | That allows him to give you only what he wants, while still retaining access of the io, os, etc. libraries later |
| 15:10.44 | cog|work | for example: local _G = getfenv(); print(_G["somevar"..i]) is always faster than print(getglobal("somevar"..i)) |
| 15:11.06 | cog|work | but that's more of an optimization hack than the intended use of the functions |
| 15:11.10 | alestane | So, the nvironment is the table to which _G points? |
| 15:11.14 | alestane | sp* |
| 15:11.16 | cog|work | yep |
| 15:11.19 | Shirik | not necessarily |
| 15:11.25 | Shirik | if you modify _G, it's no longer true |
| 15:11.29 | Shirik | but assuming you don't do that, yes |
| 15:11.41 | Shirik | modifying _G does not modify the environment, you /have/ to use setfenv |
| 15:11.44 | alestane | the global environment anyway. |
| 15:11.46 | cog|work | _G._G._G._G._G == _G |
| 15:12.07 | Shirik | modifying the /contents/ of _G, however, is fair game :) |
| 15:12.10 | alestane | Right, I know they said Lua doesn't actually use _G to find your globals when you refer to them by name. |
| 15:12.15 | Shirik | right |
| 15:12.43 | alestane | Do local variables have any relationship to the environment for a function? |
| 15:12.47 | cog|work | nope |
| 15:12.54 | cog|work | they're scoped entirely by the source code |
| 15:12.59 | Shirik | setfenv(1) |
| 15:13.01 | Shirik | setfenv(2) |
| 15:13.05 | Shirik | setfenv(n) |
| 15:13.12 | cog|work | and stored in registers in the VM (or something like that... krka will probably correct me) |
| 15:13.24 | alestane | So calling setfenv for a function won't change its access to its local variables. |
| 15:13.30 | cog|work | correct |
| 15:13.34 | cog|work | nor its upvalues |
| 15:14.29 | alestane | so what can be accomplished by setting environments other than the global one? (setfenv(x) for x!=0) |
| 15:14.41 | Shirik | you can set it for a specific function |
| 15:14.48 | Shirik | without screwing with everything else |
| 15:15.19 | alestane | So that function alone will use that environment but can't touch the normal global environment anymore? |
| 15:15.45 | alestane | Is that related to how the SavedVariables files can be prevented from loading any other variables? |
| 15:15.52 | Shirik | a = 1; function foo() setfenv(1, {}) print(a); --[[prints nil]] end print(a) --[[prints 1]] foo(); print(a); --prints 1 |
| 15:16.48 | Shirik | btw with regarads to your question regarding local vars |
| 15:16.53 | alestane | Can two environments overlap in some way, such as by including the same table or userdata as the value for their respective keys? |
| 15:16.56 | Shirik | that's closely related to why local variables are never created |
| 15:17.10 | Shirik | sure, Cide does that |
| 15:17.17 | cog|work | alestane: metatables |
| 15:17.19 | Shirik | you still have access to _G.print, etc. |
| 15:17.37 | Shirik | but _G is not the original global environment |
| 15:17.40 | cog|work | for instance, you can give a function an empty table as its environment with an __index of _G |
| 15:18.10 | alestane | I understand the basic mechanic of metatables, but am still getting my brains around the nuances and dynamics created. |
| 15:18.26 | cog|work | that way you have "read" access to all the global functions, but if you change a value you are creating a new entry in the functions environment |
| 15:18.27 | alestane | cog|work: so in that case, it can access all globals but not change them. |
| 15:18.44 | alestane | jinx |
| 15:19.02 | cog|work | so from the function's point of view, it CAN change them but the changes only affect the functions with that environment |
| 15:19.36 | alestane | I think I get that part. |
| 15:20.13 | alestane | But (speaking of metatables) what's the deal with unitExistsCache from SecureStateDriver.lua? |
| 15:20.23 | alestane | I feel like I ALMOST understand it. |
| 15:21.05 | cog|work | haven't looked at that in a while... |
| 15:21.21 | alestane | It has a defined __index method. |
| 15:21.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Nicken (n=najklord@81.25.86.28) |
| 15:22.23 | alestane | local unitExistsCache = setmetatable({}, |
| 15:22.23 | alestane | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:22.23 | alestane | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:22.23 | alestane | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:22.23 | alestane | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:22.24 | alestane | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:22.26 | alestane | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:22.31 | alestane | bleah, that didn't come out well. |
| 15:22.38 | cog|work | i'm looking at it on wdn :P |
| 15:22.47 | cog|work | and that's what pastey.net's for ;) |
| 15:23.25 | alestane | Is the table just sort of a wrapper for UnitExists? |
| 15:23.36 | cog|work | sort of... (typing) |
| 15:24.36 | cog|work | Say you do something like foo = unitExistsCache["target"] The first time you do so, the table itself doesn't contain an index of "target". When a table doesn't contain an index, it looks to the metatable for an __index method |
| 15:25.21 | alestane | but if t[k] is already defined (~= nil) then it won't invoke the metamethod? |
| 15:25.37 | cog|work | __index can be a function that takes a reference to the table being indexed, and the index you tried to access. This function takes the return from UnitExists, stores it in the given index, and returns the result |
| 15:26.05 | cog|work | so the next time you do unitExistsCache["target"] the "target" index exists and it won't look to the metatable (what you said :P ) |
| 15:26.44 | alestane | And I presume the cache gets flushed periodically to make it double-check with UnitExists() again? |
| 15:27.00 | cog|work | yep. in the SecureStateDriverManager_OnUpdate |
| 15:27.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Nicken (n=najklord@81.25.86.28) |
| 15:27.12 | alestane | FIve times a second IIRC. |
| 15:27.35 | cog|work | yep. As defined by local STATE_DRIVER_UPDATE_THROTTLE = 0.2; |
| 15:28.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ven_ (n=ven@i59F56904.versanet.de) |
| 15:28.46 | cog|work | The goal of all this is to prevent it from needing to call UnitExists every time it needs to get the status. |
| 15:28.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge foxlit (n=me@0x573e6bae.albnxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 15:29.06 | cog|work | The APIs are generally much slower than a table index |
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| 15:30.18 | alestane | But doesn't it only check unit watches and conditional checks every 0.2 seconds anyway? So isn't it going to flush the table, make all its references (populating the table) and then ignore the table until it's been flushed again? |
| 15:31.29 | cog|work | It accesses unitExistsCache for every frame registered for UnitWatch |
| 15:31.57 | [Liq] | check out my new mainbar :) http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6896/wowscrnshot082807171146bb3.jpg Altho I got an issue with the reputation bar as it sometimes locks up :-( |
| 15:32.07 | alestane | So, if more than one of them refer to 'target' then only the first one will invoke UnitExists(). |
| 15:32.11 | cog|work | exactly |
| 15:32.40 | cog|work | that's neat looking :) |
| 15:32.43 | alestane | BTW, your 'ignoreunit' suggestion is in my code proposal. |
| 15:33.09 | cog|work | :) |
| 15:33.27 | alestane | I'm assiduously working to try and make it possible to implement every behavior of the Bliz UI through the Secure Templates framework. |
| 15:34.07 | alestane | I figure then, the secure templates themselves can be reimplemented in C++, the protected functions can be dropped from the API and we'll never need to worry about taint again. |
| 15:34.22 | alestane | (don't hit me!) |
| 15:34.31 | cog|work | That's what motivated me to start my suggestions thread... I wanted to make sure addons had the ability to fully emulate the default UI |
| 15:34.57 | cog|work | hehe... Chances are they won't do anything like this until 3.0 anyway |
| 15:35.09 | cog|work | but i'd be happy not to have to rewrite my chapter at all :P |
| 15:35.18 | cog|work | all i'd need to do is delete stuff :) |
| 15:35.31 | alestane | Since that's probably WrotLK, it might not be terribly far away...(still probably over a year of course). |
| 15:35.51 | cog|work | it is |
| 15:36.03 | cog|work | at blizzcon the WotLK preview was ver 3.0 |
| 15:38.07 | alestane | Although if they like the look of the action bar rewrite, it could probably make it into 2.4 if not 2.3. It's not an outwardly functional change, just changes HOW the UI is implemented. |
| 15:39.11 | cog|work | I seem to remember a thread shortly after 2.0 came out that proposed a lot of modifications like that and slouken saying that they wouldn't consider a rewrite until 3.0, but I'll definitely cross my fingers and knock on wood for ya :) |
| 15:39.36 | alestane | Right now, the BonusActionBar frame is actually another functional frame which intercepts all the keybindings directed at the normal action bar...I'd basically like to do away with it except for cosmetic purposes (the 'slide' effect, whcih I think I now know how to emulate). |
| 15:40.09 | cog|work | yeah. that's always bugged me |
| 15:40.34 | alestane | Plus, that way several of the key-binding functions can be removed and replaced with "CLICK ButtonName:LeftButton" bindings...like the MultiBars. |
| 15:41.41 | alestane | I really think the Binding element in XML should support empty elements <Binding name="blah" /> but they just took that away completely for some reason. |
| 15:42.13 | foxlit | Wouldn't mind a lua-side API for default bindings management either. |
| 15:43.03 | alestane | I've wanted to do that myself but not entirely sure how it would work. |
| 15:45.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge amro (n=amro@82.101.184.181) |
| 15:47.22 | alestane | Heh, you have to love seeing macros like /target focus\n/cast [target=focus] Greater Heal\n/targetlasttarget |
| 15:47.54 | foxlit | Needs a /noop |
| 15:48.11 | alestane | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:49.29 | foxlit | FTP noop - does absolutely nothing :) |
| 15:50.25 | alestane | There's definitely some "useless" in there. |
| 15:50.43 | zenzelezz | wouldn't say useless |
| 15:50.55 | zenzelezz | noop could be a zomg-don't-disconnect-me-yet |
| 15:51.09 | alestane | Has anyone else noticed that /cast Greater Heal and /cast [] Greater Heal don't seem to be identical? |
| 15:51.27 | foxlit | Most server software safely ignores noop as a keep-alive, zenzelezz. |
| 15:51.34 | cog|work | that's changing next patch iirc |
| 15:51.38 | cog|work | (or 2.3) |
| 15:52.01 | zenzelezz | that could be foxlit, but it could have been intended for something like that at some point (although a dedicated packet would have been better, naturally) |
| 15:52.13 | zenzelezz | they rarely throw useless stuff in just for fun |
| 15:52.19 | zenzelezz | except in games ;-o |
| 15:52.53 | alestane | One seems to respect target info on the originating button, the other just assumes 'target'. |
| 15:54.07 | foxlit | I think it's actually intended as an "I'm still here", but most sharing hosting providers choose not to respect that |
| 15:54.40 | foxlit | So if you do nothing requiring a data connection for x minutes, you're considered "dead", even if you spam NOOP. |
| 15:54.53 | cog|work | alestane: that's intended. [] is meant to imply target=target |
| 15:56.34 | alestane | cog|work: But if you /cast Greater Heal while holding your self-cast key, and you have no target, you get "I need a target" (OSIB), whereas if you /cast [] Greater Heal with no target while holding your self-cast key, you heal yourself. At least, this has been my non-strict observation. |
| 15:57.09 | cog|work | huh... that doesn't seem right... |
| 15:57.38 | alestane | Some more rigorous testing is probably required since I could be totally wrong. |
| 15:59.42 | alestane | I mean, I know somewhere it says that [target=target] actually means "Whichever unit is deisgnated by the button", whereas [target=playertarget] means "whichever unit I have targeted, really." |
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| 16:05.44 | |FF|Im2good4u | lol i still lost my frames :P |
| 16:05.50 | |FF|Im2good4u | for about 4 hours now |
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| 16:30.05 | cog|work | Cide: what'd you do now? "Swede Hacks Embassy Account Information From Around the World" |
| 16:30.14 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
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| 16:46.54 | amro | Industrial: ping |
| 16:50.43 | Kaydeethree | new ptr diffs up. current build 7189 http://spyglass-server.com/wowints/ |
| 16:52.33 | alestane | Much hashing over the voice chat code. |
| 16:53.19 | [Liq] | HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH listen to the sound of this vid http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oKFdHniY-9M rofl :> |
| 16:56.44 | cog|work | ummm.... http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSHER15321120070831?feedType=RSS&feedName=oddlyEnoughNews |
| 16:57.57 | cog|work | Though I can think of a tasteless minnesota one... |
| 16:58.01 | Kalroth | In america the bridges steal man! |
| 16:58.16 | cog|work | exactly :| |
| 16:58.18 | alestane | Thank you Yakov. |
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| 17:00.04 | Valaron|Work | Grr.. |
| 17:00.19 | Valaron|Work | I keep rickrolling myself. Can't stop humming the song. |
| 17:00.36 | Shirik|AFK | .s/tats p |
| 17:02.53 | ScytheBlade1 | rofl |
| 17:03.30 | Shirik | Valaron|Work: want a new song? |
| 17:08.26 | sag_ich_nicht | Shirik |
| 17:08.38 | sag_ich_nicht | Conspiracy will run in the deDE client |
| 17:08.39 | sag_ich_nicht | right |
| 17:08.40 | sag_ich_nicht | ? |
| 17:09.23 | Shirik | yes it's being localized |
| 17:09.29 | Shirik | aren't you looking at the SVN? |
| 17:09.36 | Shirik | I've written the localization files myself |
| 17:09.48 | Shirik | s/es/e/ |
| 17:13.45 | alestane | I got fed up with Demonomicon and made it localize itself. |
| 17:14.13 | alestane | Although fi I wanted to be really good I would still have to localize the key-binding headers. |
| 17:14.19 | alestane | if* |
| 17:14.19 | Josh_Borke | shirik: how are you doing? |
| 17:14.24 | Josh_Borke | shirik: having a good day shirik? |
| 17:14.30 | Shirik | Josh_Borke: http://lostcontemplations.com/Auax/Caramel/Caramel.html |
| 17:14.32 | Josh_Borke | shirik: CTL/ACE/JOKER RDX KTHXBAI |
| 17:14.37 | Josh_Borke | shirik: i don't want to click your links |
| 17:15.44 | Josh_Borke | shirik: holy shit shirik, have you heard of STP? it's freaking awesome |
| 17:17.43 | Josh_Borke | shirik: why won't you talk to me? :-( |
| 17:17.54 | Shirik | trying to figure out this stupid job app system |
| 17:17.56 | Shirik | that I'm supposed to fill out |
| 17:17.57 | Cidan | :D |
| 17:18.00 | Shirik | even though I already got the job |
| 17:18.04 | Cidan | hai Shirik |
| 17:18.07 | Josh_Borke | shirik: that makes me a sad panda |
| 17:18.52 | Cidan | ugh |
| 17:18.58 | Cidan | never click on shirik links again |
| 17:18.59 | Cidan | christ |
| 17:19.00 | Josh_Borke | anybody done STP bridging in FreeBSD 6? what about you shirik? |
| 17:19.09 | Josh_Borke | cidan: now you see why i didn't want to click on Shirik's link |
| 17:20.09 | Shirik | Cidan: I didn't intend for it to go to you |
| 17:20.12 | Shirik | your own fault :P |
| 17:20.18 | Josh_Borke | lol |
| 17:20.24 | Josh_Borke | shirik pwned cidan |
| 17:20.31 | Shirik | ok so |
| 17:20.38 | Shirik | so far, I've found three different app sites for my school |
| 17:20.48 | Shirik | And all I was told is to "go to ERAU online and fill out the app" |
| 17:21.11 | Josh_Borke | shirik: fill out all 3 |
| 17:21.12 | Shirik | we have JobX, erecruitment, and iRecruit |
| 17:21.17 | Shirik | none of them have what I'm looking for! |
| 17:21.18 | Josh_Borke | maybe you'll get more job offers |
| 17:21.27 | Shirik | I'm looking for one specific thing |
| 17:21.31 | Shirik | which I've already been told I'm doing |
| 17:22.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Karen@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 17:22.39 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 17:22.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Josh_Borke (n=jk275@cjm-579.stl.gtri.gatech.edu) |
| 17:23.36 | Cidan | so what are you trying to do with stp? |
| 17:23.59 | alestane | Cairenn: So how sure are that patch isn't next week? This PTR update flurry smells of making a a deadline. |
| 17:24.06 | Josh_Borke | cidan: well, we have a pair of freebsd 5-stable firewalls that were working fine over copper |
| 17:24.32 | Josh_Borke | cidan: i saw that freebsd 6-stable includes some patches we were doing to get everything working so i upgraded to 6-stable and fiber (woot) but it broke some things |
| 17:24.40 | Cairenn | alestane: I'm as sure as I can be without actually working at Blizz myself |
| 17:24.40 | Josh_Borke | cidan: so now i'm taking the opportunity to look for improvements |
| 17:25.03 | Josh_Borke | cidan: hm, freebsd bridging firewalls i should say |
| 17:25.09 | Cidan | hmm |
| 17:25.17 | alestane | And how are you in the room twice? |
| 17:25.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Lunessa (n=Lunessa@129.7.94.34) |
| 17:25.35 | Cidan | shouldn't be too hard, each FW has three nics, 1 to an internal switch, 1 to an external, and 1 to each other |
| 17:25.53 | Josh_Borke | true, i've just never done it |
| 17:26.15 | Cidan | what is the setup like? |
| 17:26.30 | |FF|Im2good4u | is it posable to show() and hide() childwindows in an OnUpdate widget event ? since my entire list seems to disapear of it |
| 17:26.45 | Josh_Borke | it's fiber from outside, em0 to inside with a third nic for communication |
| 17:26.45 | Cidan | |FF|Im2good4u, sure |
| 17:27.15 | Cidan | so the fiber goes where? |
| 17:27.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Saint-N (n=art3mis@pool-162-84-249-119.ny5030.east.verizon.net) |
| 17:27.31 | Cidan | into a switch first, then into the firewalls? |
| 17:27.37 | Cairenn | alestane: because I'm logged in from 2 different computers |
| 17:28.07 | alestane | Cairenn: Well that's silly. |
| 17:28.18 | Josh_Borke | cidan: from a cisco 6500 series switch into the firewalls |
| 17:28.29 | Cairenn | alestane: thank you for your opinion, I'll keep it in mind |
| 17:28.31 | Cidan | okay |
| 17:28.42 | Cidan | then from the firewalls into another, I assume |
| 17:28.50 | Cidan | then from there, LOLPCS |
| 17:28.52 | Cidan | :D |
| 17:28.53 | Cidan | Right? |
| 17:28.59 | Josh_Borke | yea, from the firewalls into separate netgear gbps switches |
| 17:29.02 | alestane | Cairenn: Please don't take that too seriously (not that I really expect you did). |
| 17:29.07 | Cidan | o.. |
| 17:29.08 | Josh_Borke | that are all looped together |
| 17:29.10 | Cidan | hmm |
| 17:29.23 | Cidan | okay, the netgears are looped together |
| 17:29.26 | Josh_Borke | i'm thinking i'm gonna need to set up an actual testbed instead of trying to do it live |
| 17:29.57 | Saint-N | ahh this is better, back in my real office with dual monitors working |
| 17:30.12 | Cidan | huzzah! |
| 17:30.13 | Cidan | http://www.seattlecentral.edu/~dmartin/docs/bridge.html |
| 17:30.23 | Cidan | I knew I saw this problem before somewhere |
| 17:32.10 | Shirik | http://tinyurl.com/yvf9zz |
| 17:32.14 | sag_ich_nicht | [19:09] <Shirik> aren't you looking at the SVN? <--not atm |
| 17:32.31 | Shirik | (for Cidan) |
| 17:32.45 | Cidan | Rot in fucking hell. |
| 17:32.50 | Shirik | muahaha |
| 17:33.28 | Shirik | cmon I bet Nancy thinks it's cute |
| 17:33.46 | Cidan | it's just... loud |
| 17:33.57 | Cidan | She's working atm anyways |
| 17:34.04 | Shirik | so show her afterwards :) |
| 17:34.11 | Shirik | p.s. that's why they invented volume control |
| 17:34.13 | Shirik | it's really cool |
| 17:36.45 | Shirik | omg! |
| 17:36.47 | Shirik | I found the full song!! |
| 17:36.54 | Shirik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0apPZZVCHLA |
| 17:37.01 | Shirik | ahaha |
| 17:37.52 | Cidan | no thanks |
| 17:39.31 | Shirik | and the guy in the background dancing so looks like "wtf am I here for" |
| 17:40.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tuller (n=chatzill@c-76-27-166-119.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 17:40.48 | alestane | Trying to figure out how much of that is original footage and how much is AfterEffects. |
| 17:41.31 | Lunessa | Shirik: You're an evil man for linking that. EVIL |
| 17:41.36 | Shirik | =D |
| 17:42.01 | alestane | I don't know if it rates up there with the Hello Kitty UI for sheer evil factor. |
| 17:42.13 | Shirik | I think it'll get up there wit... what was that other one |
| 17:42.34 | |FF|Im2good4u | Q: is this the right way to set a button text to the left ? b:GetFontString():SetJustifyH("LEFT") |
| 17:43.03 | cog|work | |FF|Im2good4u: if the fontstring doesn't have a specified size, you can just anchor the fontstring by its left point |
| 17:43.12 | cog|work | but yes, I think that would do it |
| 17:45.23 | |FF|Im2good4u | well its all centered now and that is no good for my tree vieuw type window |
| 17:46.56 | Josh_Borke | cidan: btw, i have no access to the cisco 6500 switch |
| 17:47.03 | Cidan | oh |
| 17:47.07 | Cidan | well you're a bit borked |
| 17:47.31 | Josh_Borke | hm |
| 17:47.33 | Josh_Borke | really? |
| 17:47.56 | Shirik | loituma! |
| 17:47.57 | Shirik | that's the other one |
| 17:48.08 | Shirik | I think it's along side of that one :) |
| 17:48.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge sioraiocht (n=rtharper@cpe-74-79-41-65.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 17:49.58 | Valaron|Work | Ahh.. my ears! |
| 17:50.25 | Shirik | :D |
| 17:51.06 | Saint-N | shirik: http://www.gothi.ca/Stuff/hellokitty-ui.jpg |
| 17:51.27 | Shirik | I need that |
| 17:51.51 | Valaron|Work | Awwwww.. the cyCircled skins adds that nice touch. |
| 17:52.12 | Saint-N | yeah ale did a nice job |
| 17:52.24 | Saint-N | if nothing else im totally keeping those button graphics |
| 17:53.08 | Saint-N | hahah ALT linux says "comes in english!" |
| 17:53.22 | Saint-N | but every icon and crap on thier livecd is still russian along with every menu |
| 17:53.23 | alestane | Ahem...you're not in any of my guilds, I'll forgive you the full tirade... |
| 17:53.23 | Cidan | I'm adding a HelloKitty theme to Conspiracy |
| 17:53.26 | Cidan | No joke. |
| 17:53.31 | Cidan | Code is already part way in |
| 17:53.35 | alestane | but I AM NOT A BEER! |
| 17:54.08 | Saint-N | hehe first 3 letters are and to be honest ale|work was all i saw yesterday ;) |
| 17:55.01 | alestane | Odd, I usually keep it as ales|wherever but... |
| 17:55.23 | Saint-N | "was all i saw" |
| 17:55.28 | cog|work | Hello, this is Linus Torvalds and I pronounce Linux, Linux |
| 17:55.32 | Saint-N | but even ales == more than 1 beer ;P |
| 17:55.53 | alestane | Ales is fine, I will endure Ally, Ale is right out. |
| 17:55.54 | cog|work | I pronounce alestane sort of like Alice Tain |
| 17:56.10 | cog|work | (sorry Tain) |
| 17:56.10 | alestane | cog|wheel: that is exactly how it should be pronounced. |
| 17:56.25 | Saint-N | you also worship soggy cheese whiz sammiches and eat dead bugs cog ;) |
| 17:56.38 | cog|work | i eat dead bugs, yes... |
| 17:56.45 | cog|work | but cheese whiz is right out |
| 17:56.47 | alestane | Okay, I just sent that message with an odd tag... |
| 17:56.55 | Saint-N | Cidan: that would rule if you did add hello kitty themeing to conspiracy |
| 17:57.02 | cog|work | alestane: heh... i didn't even notice >< |
| 17:57.05 | Cidan | Yep |
| 17:57.09 | Cidan | it'll be cute too |
| 17:57.09 | alestane | s/|wheel/|work/ |
| 17:57.22 | Saint-N | heh Hello Kitty Island Adventure LIVES! |
| 17:57.27 | alestane | It only works on your last post doesn't it. |
| 17:57.33 | cog|work | cog<TAB> 4tw :P |
| 17:57.36 | cog|work | yes |
| 17:58.42 | alestane | cog|work |
| 17:58.52 | alestane | okay, then keep typing. |
| 17:59.02 | cog|work | hmm? |
| 17:59.17 | alestane | Just getting the hang of this client, one sec... |
| 17:59.22 | cog|work | ah |
| 17:59.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [Liquidor] (n=denras19@130.225.247.36) |
| 18:00.08 | alestane | cog|work: regarding your recent Miki's Pet post...did you see that cartoon they had about the German couple who met through WoW? |
| 18:00.20 | cog|work | nope |
| 18:01.09 | alestane | Lemme see if the news is still around... |
| 18:03.00 | alestane | http://www.wow-europe.com/en/community/wowparents.html comci at the bottom of the page. |
| 18:03.05 | alestane | comic* |
| 18:03.50 | alestane | Also make sure to mouse over the ring and heart icons at the end of the animation. |
| 18:04.17 | cog|work | haha |
| 18:04.53 | alestane | I actually had to read it like three times before I noticed that he had three arrows lodged in his @$$. |
| 18:05.07 | cog|work | yeah... took me a couple |
| 18:05.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Matrix110 (i=bla@pD957C892.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:05.51 | cog|work | May result in annoying cutesy talk |
| 18:05.52 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Gnancy (n=gnancysa@adsl-065-082-190-025.sip.bct.bellsouth.net) |
| 18:05.59 | amro | I've seen a lot of stupid way to misspell words, but 'beying' takes the cake |
| 18:06.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge KarlThePagan (n=andross@lanip-170-65.go180.net) |
| 18:07.15 | alestane | "Increases heart rate by 0.5 bps" |
| 18:07.17 | Lunessa | cog|work: -100 cool points for hating cheese-whiz, +200 for dead bugs |
| 18:07.36 | cog|work | Lunessa: processed cheese food is teh suck |
| 18:07.57 | cog|work | -100 cool points for docking 100 cool points for not liking cheese whiz |
| 18:08.07 | Lunessa | Indeed, it is.. but ... cheese in a SPRAY CAN! |
| 18:08.24 | cog|work | Deep fried cheese is where it's at... |
| 18:08.29 | cog|work | <3 Mozzarella sticks |
| 18:08.41 | cog|work | I want to make some really gourmet ones |
| 18:08.47 | cog|work | Fresh buffalo mozzarella |
| 18:08.54 | cog|work | really good beer batter |
| 18:09.00 | cog|work | mmmmmmm |
| 18:09.32 | Lunessa | oh man. I just had chili and now I want deep friend cheese... |
| 18:09.36 | Lunessa | ... bitches |
| 18:10.19 | alestane | cog|work: Do they deep-fry Macaroni & cheese out where you live? |
| 18:10.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Adys (i=Adys@APoitiers-257-1-68-19.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:10.31 | cog|work | never seen that one, no... |
| 18:11.01 | alestane | TGI Friday's has just picked it up around here, it's sort of like a croquette or something. |
| 18:11.35 | cog|work | interesting |
| 18:11.47 | cog|work | I assume real mac & cheese not the powdered crap? |
| 18:12.13 | alestane | I don't actually know how it's produced, but from the flavor I believe real cheese was involved. |
| 18:19.21 | Shirik | omg |
| 18:19.25 | Shirik | deep fried macaroni and cheese |
| 18:19.28 | Shirik | I should try that |
| 18:19.45 | Shirik | kraft macaroni and cheese |
| 18:19.50 | Shirik | then you can stick it in a deep frier |
| 18:19.51 | Shirik | flash fry |
| 18:20.18 | alestane | Not quite...it's like a croquette...first you have to chill it so the sauce is stiff. |
| 18:20.55 | Shirik | nah screw that |
| 18:21.01 | alestane | Then you pat it with a thick layer of bread crumbs and egg (or something to help the crumbs stick). |
| 18:21.07 | Shirik | just boil the macaroni, put in the powdered cheese |
| 18:21.11 | Shirik | then flash fry |
| 18:21.12 | Shirik | done |
| 18:21.14 | Industrial | http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZE0zI0h0xxVxx0etM |
| 18:21.17 | Industrial | this any good? |
| 18:21.19 | Industrial | for leveling? |
| 18:21.20 | Shirik | it's like macaroni and cheese french fries |
| 18:21.22 | Industrial | amro: ^ |
| 18:22.10 | cog|work | eeeew |
| 18:22.13 | alestane | That's the least prot prot spec I've seen. |
| 18:22.37 | Industrial | alestane: we are leveling together, im lok |
| 18:22.38 | alestane | cog|work:Shirik and I have different concepts of this dish, as you may have noticed. |
| 18:22.38 | Industrial | lock |
| 18:22.53 | Shirik | my taste are always awesome |
| 18:22.59 | Shirik | I mean come on, look at Caramell Dansen |
| 18:23.03 | Shirik | how can you not say that's awesome |
| 18:23.04 | Industrial | alestane: so I thought get the aggro and block thingies, and then more damage :D? |
| 18:23.11 | alestane | 'Lock and Pally is an awesome duo. |
| 18:23.13 | cog|work | Shirik: i agree with you on that one :P |
| 18:23.32 | Cidan | Anything + Pally is an awesome duo really |
| 18:23.41 | alestane | I used to group with a pally back around level 45, we were friggin' unstoppable. |
| 18:23.42 | Lunessa | MURLOC SUIT! OMG - I got one! |
| 18:23.50 | Industrial | gz! |
| 18:23.58 | Industrial | how does one get one |
| 18:24.36 | Lunessa | A blizzcon attendee traded me some old computer equipment for his unused code. :) |
| 18:25.18 | Industrial | :OO |
| 18:25.37 | |FF|Im2good4u | does anyone happent to know the texture names / path for the (+) and (-) used in proffesions interface ? |
| 18:25.46 | alestane | Now personally I've never gotten into Seal of Command but I know a lot of pallys think it's teh nutz. |
| 18:26.02 | Cidan | After BC it's worthless |
| 18:26.07 | alestane | |FF|Im2good4u: I've looked them up before but I don't remember them at the moment. |
| 18:26.09 | Cidan | Seal of Veng is just so much rofl. |
| 18:26.21 | Cidan | so much so, that I need to respec out of it |
| 18:26.36 | alestane | They're in Interface/Buttons IIRC. |
| 18:26.55 | Cide | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:27.07 | |FF|Im2good4u | good idea thanks Cide |
| 18:28.33 | |FF|Im2good4u | ah doesnt got a GetTexture() feild :P it was to easy tobe tru |
| 18:29.11 | Cide | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:29.26 | Shirik | >>> setfenv |
| 18:29.26 | Cide | Shirik: function: 00176FF0 |
| 18:38.52 | alestane | So he hasn't hidden it like cladhaire did...are you going to break it now? |
| 18:39.29 | Cide | go for it |
| 18:39.33 | Cide | I beg you to try |
| 18:40.14 | zenzelezz | think they work slightly differently |
| 18:40.37 | cog|work | rofl http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php?serverid=78&factionid=-1&minlevel=70&maxlevel=70&servertypeid=1 |
| 18:40.48 | cog|work | "There are too few Horde entries for this realm to give reliable results! Please help today by submitting data for this realm! Find out more about how to help here!" |
| 18:44.29 | Shirik | Cide: Was that at me? |
| 18:45.21 | Shirik | I checked that because I was trying to explain environments to someone today |
| 18:45.26 | Shirik | and this posed some issues: |
| 18:45.29 | Shirik | lua> setfenv |
| 18:45.29 | cladbot | Shirik: nil |
| 18:45.41 | zenzelezz | doesn't Cide's bot start a new lua every time it's called? |
| 18:45.53 | Cide | yes |
| 18:45.53 | Shirik | I believe so |
| 18:46.29 | Shirik | so doing something like this would be pointless |
| 18:46.48 | alestane | IT was me...I'm still trying to grasp how environments are useful. Shirik and Cogwheel were kind enough to give some pointers. |
| 18:46.56 | Cide | what was the script cladbot had to generate pronouncable words? |
| 18:47.14 | Shirik | >>> setfenv(0, setmetatable({}, {__index = function(t,k) print("RAWR") return rawget(_G, k); end})); print("Foo!"); |
| 18:47.14 | Cide | Shirik: "Foo!" |
| 18:47.16 | Shirik | =( |
| 18:47.30 | sag_ich_nicht | haha. |
| 18:47.30 | Shirik | oh right |
| 18:47.37 | sag_ich_nicht | shirik fails |
| 18:47.37 | sag_ich_nicht | .O |
| 18:47.38 | zenzelezz | lua> ispronouncable("arf") |
| 18:47.38 | cladbot | zenzelezz: true, |
| 18:47.40 | sag_ich_nicht | *:O |
| 18:47.48 | zenzelezz | think he had a shorter name too, but can't recall it |
| 18:47.50 | Cide | ya, but what was the function to generate permutations or whatever? |
| 18:47.54 | sag_ich_nicht | lua> ispronouncalbe("Ruknor") |
| 18:47.55 | cladbot | sag_ich_nicht: [string "ispronouncalbe("Ruknor")"]:1: attempt to call global 'ispronouncalbe' (a nil value) |
| 18:47.57 | Shirik | >>> local g = _G; setfenv(0, setmetatable({}, {__index = function(t,k) g.print("RAWR") return rawget(g, k); end})); print("Foo!"); |
| 18:47.57 | Cide | Shirik: "Foo!" |
| 18:47.59 | Shirik | I give up |
| 18:48.00 | sag_ich_nicht | lol |
| 18:48.03 | sag_ich_nicht | typo |
| 18:48.09 | sag_ich_nicht | lua> ispronouncable("Ruknor") |
| 18:48.10 | cladbot | sag_ich_nicht: false, |
| 18:48.15 | Josh_Borke | lua> ispronouncable("jacabahamanack") |
| 18:48.15 | sag_ich_nicht | okay |
| 18:48.15 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: true, |
| 18:48.26 | sag_ich_nicht | clad|away your function fails |
| 18:48.27 | Shirik | ja ka ba ha ma nak |
| 18:48.31 | Shirik | That's totally pronouncable |
| 18:48.35 | cog|work | agreed |
| 18:48.35 | sag_ich_nicht | Ruknor IS pronouncable, easily, too |
| 18:48.38 | Josh_Borke | lua> ispronouncable("jaicabahamanack") |
| 18:48.38 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: true, |
| 18:48.42 | zenzelezz | sag: that's been discussed before... lowercase |
| 18:48.42 | Josh_Borke | lua> ispronouncable("jaiycabahamanack") |
| 18:48.43 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: false, |
| 18:48.47 | sag_ich_nicht | grr |
| 18:48.49 | Josh_Borke | lua> ispronouncable("Jaiycabahamanack") |
| 18:48.49 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: false, |
| 18:48.51 | sag_ich_nicht | lua> ispronouncable("ruknor") |
| 18:48.51 | cladbot | sag_ich_nicht: false, |
| 18:48.55 | sag_ich_nicht | see? |
| 18:48.58 | sag_ich_nicht | still fails, zenzelezz |
| 18:49.01 | Josh_Borke | it's just a simple rule on what follows what |
| 18:49.02 | Shirik | lua> ispronouncable"rucknor" |
| 18:49.03 | cladbot | Shirik: false, |
| 18:49.05 | Shirik | hrm |
| 18:49.05 | zenzelezz | yes, but uppercase makes it fail too :-p |
| 18:49.09 | Josh_Borke | lua> ispronouncable("rucknor") |
| 18:49.09 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: false, |
| 18:49.14 | Josh_Borke | lua> ispronouncable("ruck-nor") |
| 18:49.14 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: false, |
| 18:49.15 | cog|work | lua> ispronouncable("humuhumunukunukuapuaa") |
| 18:49.15 | cladbot | cog|work: false, |
| 18:49.22 | Josh_Borke | lua> ispronouncable("ruckinor") |
| 18:49.22 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: true, |
| 18:49.30 | sag_ich_nicht | you will not call me ruki. |
| 18:49.33 | Josh_Borke | lua> ispronouncable("ruckynor") |
| 18:49.33 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: true, |
| 18:49.34 | sag_ich_nicht | >_< |
| 18:49.35 | Shirik | lua> ispronouncable("knife") |
| 18:49.35 | cladbot | Shirik: true, |
| 18:49.37 | Cide | so... |
| 18:49.41 | Shirik | anyway.... |
| 18:49.50 | Cide | what was the function to generate permutations? :P |
| 18:49.58 | Shirik | permutations? |
| 18:50.00 | Shirik | let's see |
| 18:50.02 | Cide | for words |
| 18:50.04 | Josh_Borke | incoming clad spam saying: "please join #luabot to do testing and don't spam this channel" |
| 18:50.09 | Cide | clad had one |
| 18:50.09 | Shirik | n! / n!-r! |
| 18:50.09 | Shirik | oh |
| 18:50.16 | Josh_Borke | lua> permute("bob") |
| 18:50.16 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: [string "permute("bob")"]:1: attempt to call global 'permute' (a nil value) |
| 18:50.17 | Cide | I know the formula :P |
| 18:50.21 | Shirik | wait, that's wrong |
| 18:50.26 | Shirik | n! / (n-r)! |
| 18:50.28 | Josh_Borke | lua> print(_G) |
| 18:50.29 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: { ["log"] = function: 0x806f880, ["wow"] = { ["strconcat"] = function: 0x80702e0, ["strtrim"] = function: 0x8070220, ["strsplit"] = function: 0x8070260, ["getglobal"] = function: 0x80ae3a0, ["strjoin"] = function: 0x80702a0, ["debugstack"] = function: 0x8... (result truncated) |
| 18:50.29 | Cide | yep |
| 18:50.44 | AnduinLothar | :) http://www.blizzard.com/inblizz/fanart/ScreenShot.aspx?ImageIndex=461 |
| 18:50.51 | Lunessa | ... hate Outlook so much ... I wish I could hate it to death. |
| 18:51.01 | Josh_Borke | lua> for k in pairs(_G) do if string.match(k, "perm") then print(k) end end |
| 18:51.01 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: |
| 18:51.08 | Josh_Borke | lua> for k in pairs(_G) do if string.match(k, "pro") then print(k) end end |
| 18:51.08 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: ispronouncable, newproxy |
| 18:51.15 | Josh_Borke | lua> for k in pairs(_G) do if string.match(k, "gen") then print(k) end end |
| 18:51.15 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: gen_next |
| 18:51.26 | Cide | gen_next might be it |
| 18:51.34 | Josh_Borke | lua> gen_next("bob") |
| 18:51.34 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: b, |
| 18:51.38 | Josh_Borke | lua> gen_next("b") |
| 18:51.38 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: b, |
| 18:51.41 | Josh_Borke | lua> gen_next("baa") |
| 18:51.42 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: b, |
| 18:51.44 | Shirik | lua> for k in pairs(_G) do if string.match(k, "name") then print(k) end |
| 18:51.45 | cladbot | Shirik: sandbox.lua:276: Compilation failed: [string "for k in pairs(_G) do if string.match(k, "name") then print(k) ..."]:1: 'end' expected near '<eof>' |
| 18:51.50 | Shirik | lua> for k in pairs(_G) do if string.match(k, "name") then print(k) end end |
| 18:51.50 | cladbot | Shirik: getnames |
| 18:51.53 | Shirik | there you go |
| 18:51.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge CrazyMYKL (n=rumors@149.152.112.213) |
| 18:52.02 | Josh_Borke | lua> getnames("Shirik") |
| 18:52.02 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: Shiril, Shirim, Shirin, Shirio, Shirip, Shiriq, Shirir, Shiris, Shirit, Shiriu, Shiriv, Shiriw, Shirix, Shiriy, Shiriz, Shirja, Shirje, Shirji, Shirjo, Shirju, Shirjy, Shirka, Shirke, Shirki, Shirko, Shirku, Shirky, Shirla, Shirle, Shirli, Shirlo, Shirlu,... (result truncated) |
| 18:52.03 | Cide | how do you use it? :P |
| 18:52.07 | Cide | err |
| 18:52.07 | Cide | ok |
| 18:52.26 | Shirik | lua> return select('#', getnames"shirik") |
| 18:52.27 | cladbot | Shirik: shiril, shirim, shirin, shirio, shirip, shiriq, shirir, shiris, shirit, shiriu, shiriv, shiriw, shirix, shiriy, shiriz, shirja, shirje, shirji, shirjo, shirju, shirjy, shirka, shirke, shirki, shirko, shirku, shirky, shirla, shirle, shirli, shirlo, shirlu,... (result truncated) |
| 18:52.30 | Shirik | bleh |
| 18:52.33 | Shirik | it's not a lua function =( |
| 18:52.38 | alestane | Lunessa: Can't blame you for that one. |
| 18:52.48 | Shirik | anyway |
| 18:52.53 | Shirik | back on topic |
| 18:53.02 | Shirik | alestane are you still trying to find a purpose for it? |
| 18:53.13 | Josh_Borke | lua> local x, print = 0, function(...) x = x + select('#',...) end; getnames("shirik") print(x) |
| 18:53.14 | cladbot | Josh_Borke: shiril, shirim, shirin, shirio, shirip, shiriq, shirir, shiris, shirit, shiriu, shiriv, shiriw, shirix, shiriy, shiriz, shirja, shirje, shirji, shirjo, shirju, shirjy, shirka, shirke, shirki, shirko, shirku, shirky, shirla, shirle, shirli, shirlo, shirlu,... (result truncated) |
| 18:53.15 | alestane | I ahve at least an inkling now. |
| 18:53.17 | Josh_Borke | i fail |
| 18:53.30 | alestane | The metatables example helped. |
| 18:53.33 | Shirik | It could do something like this too |
| 18:54.44 | Shirik | >>> SV.run = function(s) local g, assert = getfenv(0), assert; setfenv(0, {print = g.print}); assert(pcall(assert(loadstring(s)))); setfenv(0, g); end |
| 18:54.45 | Cide | Shirik: nil |
| 18:54.49 | Shirik | now I have this nice function |
| 18:55.02 | Shirik | >>> SV.run[[print "foo!"]] |
| 18:55.02 | Cide | Shirik: "foo!" |
| 18:55.12 | Shirik | but I protected it from changing anything: |
| 18:55.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge lolinternet (i=bitch2k@85.127.111.63) |
| 18:55.26 | Shirik | >>> a = 1; SV.run[[a = 4;]] print(a); |
| 18:55.26 | Cide | Shirik: 1 |
| 18:55.36 | Shirik | however, as far as it's concerned, nothing changed |
| 18:55.42 | Shirik | >>> a = 1; SV.run[[a = 4; print(a)]] print(a); |
| 18:55.43 | Cide | Shirik: 4, 1 |
| 18:56.09 | Shirik | ignore that ugly assert(pcall(assert(loadstring crap |
| 18:56.12 | Cide | sandboxes, yay |
| 18:56.20 | Shirik | that's just basically running the string, all you need to know |
| 18:56.27 | Cide | why do you assert twice btw? |
| 18:56.38 | Cide | it likely makes sense but I'm too lazy to figure it out |
| 18:56.41 | alestane | I know what loadstring does, but I was going to ask why two asserts? |
| 18:56.50 | Shirik | >>> SV.run("foo()") |
| 18:56.50 | Cide | Shirik: [string "SV.run = function(s) local g, assert = getf..."]:1: [string "foo()"]:1: attempt to call global 'foo' (a nil value) |
| 18:57.12 | Shirik | It ensures that the pcall succeeded |
| 18:57.18 | Shirik | which in that case it didn't |
| 18:57.37 | Cide | >>> assert(pcall(loadstring, "foo()")) |
| 18:57.37 | Cide | Cide: true, function: 002298A8 |
| 18:57.39 | Shirik | but it compiled perfectly fine |
| 18:57.52 | Cide | >>> assert(pcall(loadstring"foo()")) |
| 18:57.53 | Cide | Cide: [string "assert(pcall(loadstring"foo()"))"]:1: [string "foo()"]:1: attempt to call global 'foo' (a nil value) |
| 18:58.01 | Cide | does it make a difference? |
| 18:58.06 | Shirik | because |
| 18:58.16 | Shirik | >>> assert(pcall(loadstring"jfiopawj@#T)(@*#")) |
| 18:58.16 | Cide | Shirik: [string "assert(pcall(loadstring"jfiopawj@#T)(@*#"))"]:1: attempt to call a nil value |
| 18:58.22 | Shirik | is not an accurate error |
| 18:58.26 | Cide | ah, true |
| 18:58.41 | Cide | I had that issue :P |
| 18:58.46 | Shirik | I remember it :) |
| 18:58.49 | krka | cog|work: local variables are either stored on the stack or (after they've gone out of scope) inside upvalues... but you were basically correct |
| 18:59.00 | alestane | So is assert Lua's basic 'exception' mechanism? |
| 18:59.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge vulture_ (n=vulture@12-216-41-185.client.mchsi.com) |
| 18:59.08 | Shirik | assert can be defined as |
| 18:59.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge stavmar (n=chatzill@cpe-70-112-16-173.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 18:59.37 | Shirik | assert = function(t, e) if not e then e = "Assertion failed!"; end if not t then error(e) end end |
| 19:00.12 | alestane | so, 'error' would be the rough equivalent of throw. |
| 19:00.12 | Shirik | assert is essentially error() with an extra if statement |
| 19:00.15 | Shirik | yes |
| 19:00.26 | Cide | you forgot the return |
| 19:00.29 | krka | wrong Shirik :P |
| 19:00.33 | Shirik | oh sorry =( |
| 19:00.43 | Shirik | assert = function(t, e) if not e then e = "Assertion failed!"; end if not t then error(e) end return t; end |
| 19:00.45 | Shirik | there |
| 19:00.48 | krka | wrong |
| 19:00.51 | Shirik | =( |
| 19:00.53 | Shirik | what I did now |
| 19:01.15 | stavmar | is this a Lightheaded problem or an nQuestLog problem http://wowi.pastey.net/73114 |
| 19:01.17 | Shirik | don't go off saying the error will report the wrong line -_- |
| 19:01.20 | krka | function assert(...) local t, e = ... if not t then error(e or "Assertion failed!") end return ... end |
| 19:01.41 | Shirik | >>> return assert(true, "foo") |
| 19:01.41 | Cide | Shirik: true, "foo" |
| 19:01.43 | Shirik | huh |
| 19:01.46 | Shirik | I didn't know it returns it all |
| 19:01.53 | Shirik | never really made a difference to me but stil |
| 19:02.08 | krka | not overly useful :) |
| 19:02.25 | krka | hmm... except for stuff like this: |
| 19:02.34 | krka | dostuff(loadstring(....)) |
| 19:02.37 | krka | can be converted to: |
| 19:02.44 | krka | dostuff(assert(loadstring(...))) |
| 19:02.46 | krka | without any problems |
| 19:02.50 | Shirik | Also, alestane, it is said in some languages that assert should never be used to accomplish anything |
| 19:02.55 | Saint-N | hehe cide is mr-t |
| 19:03.03 | Saint-N | Shirik it's true foo! |
| 19:03.14 | Shirik | For example, in C, assert() is actually removed during preprocessing in release compiles |
| 19:03.24 | Shirik | however Lua's not one of those languages, by most people's standards |
| 19:03.27 | Shirik | so don't worry about that |
| 19:03.45 | alestane | Shirik: That is, only values and the results of static functions should be supplied as parameters? |
| 19:03.56 | Shirik | that is argued for some languages, not Lua |
| 19:04.25 | alestane | I'm principally restating your statement to verify my understanding. |
| 19:04.51 | krka | anyone know of a good way to make dvd menus in linux? |
| 19:04.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge lawlinternet (i=bitch2k@85.127.108.71) |
| 19:05.06 | krka | dvdstyler crashes on me |
| 19:05.07 | lawlinternet | geez |
| 19:05.08 | Shirik | but yes :) |
| 19:05.11 | lawlinternet | need. lower. timeout. for. freenode. |
| 19:05.28 | Shirik | timeouts are a pain to deal with |
| 19:05.40 | Shirik | the IRC protocol doesn't specify one, it merely specifies the PING command |
| 19:05.52 | Shirik | given that... |
| 19:05.53 | Shirik | Current global users: 38623 Max: 40283 |
| 19:06.00 | Shirik | I would argue trying to turn that up would be suicide |
| 19:06.23 | Saint-N | you would argue the world was a dodecahedron if you were bored shirik ;P |
| 19:06.30 | Shirik | probably true |
| 19:06.41 | Shirik | and one could argue it is, what with all the construction we've done |
| 19:06.44 | Shirik | it's surely not a sphere |
| 19:06.49 | Saint-N | thats gotta be the second greatest shape name btw |
| 19:06.59 | Saint-N | rhomboid being the first |
| 19:07.08 | Saint-N | parallelgram is the 3rd |
| 19:07.28 | Lunessa | haha - ckknight "Much is less than three? Oh no, my world is shattered." we make this joke in guild chat all the time. |
| 19:07.36 | Saint-N | parallelagram |
| 19:07.37 | alestane | "My angles are many/my sides are not few/I'm the dodecahedron/who are you?" |
| 19:08.47 | Saint-N | I am a cube/my sides are the same/unlike the circle/straight lines are my game. |
| 19:08.53 | Shirik | wtf |
| 19:08.56 | Shirik | go to #math |
| 19:09.27 | alestane | Well, mine was a novel quote even if it was math-related. |
| 19:10.00 | Saint-N | i just made mine up now |
| 19:10.12 | Shirik | and before I leave for class, I give you one more gem |
| 19:10.17 | Shirik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y8oDnjkS7E&watch_response |
| 19:10.19 | cog|work | <3 the phantom tollbooth |
| 19:10.38 | cog|work | I played the everpresent wordsnatcher in an elementary school play XD |
| 19:11.17 | alestane | I always loved the whether man. |
| 19:11.18 | Saint-N | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGvWbanbsOA |
| 19:11.22 | Saint-N | speaking of |
| 19:12.21 | |FF|Im2good4u | AHH FF$ it finely seemed fixed then i added the last line and my entire scroll frame is gone again and removing the line wont help |
| 19:13.14 | Saint-N | i love this song |
| 19:13.19 | cog|work | I think that book is what got me addicted to puns |
| 19:13.35 | Saint-N | rocky and bullwinkle for me |
| 19:13.49 | Saint-N | the undisputed kings of bad puns ;) |
| 19:13.57 | alestane | "Look Bullwinkle! A message in a bottle!" "Fan mail from some flounder?" |
| 19:13.59 | Shirik | Saint-N: wtf |
| 19:14.04 | Shirik|AFK | all I can say |
| 19:14.24 | Saint-N | Shirik|AFK: we were talking about the phantopm tollbooth |
| 19:14.42 | Shirik|AFK | oh |
| 19:14.44 | Shirik|AFK | I missed that >< |
| 19:14.51 | Shirik|AFK | no idea what it is |
| 19:14.55 | Shirik|AFK | anyway, class time /vanish |
| 19:15.07 | Saint-N | heathen |
| 19:15.28 | Saint-N | alestane: hehe i picked up a new book of fractured fairy tales by jay ward the other day |
| 19:15.42 | Saint-N | i dont think ive laughed as much reading those on the subway |
| 19:16.32 | alestane | Always a delightful topic..."I can't see! I can't see!" "Then...take off your hat?" "I can see!! I can see!!" |
| 19:18.04 | Lunessa | Mmmm.. telepathy lite - nice work. |
| 19:18.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tuller (n=chatzill@c-76-27-166-119.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 19:19.25 | Saint-N | the terrible trivium!@ |
| 19:19.48 | Saint-N | they're trivial tasks |
| 19:20.09 | Saint-N | demon of petty tasks and worthless jobs! |
| 19:20.46 | |FF|Im2good4u | Q: will it work to call an OnUpdate function by calling directly like RaidInfoTracker_Interface_List_Panel_OnUpdate(RaidInfoTracker_List_FramePointer) ? |
| 19:21.13 | |FF|Im2good4u | since i got some sort of bugging in my OnOpdate somewhere :P |
| 19:28.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge amro|laptop (n=chatzill@82.101.184.181) |
| 19:29.56 | alestane | cog|work: Yeah, we have a radio station around here that runs a "whether report - where we tell you what's going on, whether you like it or not"...and every time I hear it I think, "For after all it is more important to know whether there will be weather than what the weather will be!" |
| 19:30.12 | cog|work | :) |
| 19:30.41 | alestane | And of course there's the island of Conclusions. |
| 19:31.06 | Lunessa | oooo... Phantom Tollbooth. Fun novel, decent film. |
| 19:31.21 | cog|work | never saw the movie, actually... |
| 19:31.28 | alestane | Only way there is to jump. |
| 19:31.54 | alestane | Easy to get to, hard to get back from. |
| 19:32.03 | Maldivia | Cairenn ? |
| 19:32.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge sioraiocht (n=rtharper@cpe-74-79-41-65.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 19:32.48 | Cairenn | Maldivia: ? |
| 19:32.57 | cog|work | cog|work: ? |
| 19:33.05 | Maldivia | Cairenn: can I /msg you ? |
| 19:33.13 | cog|work | ~asktoask |
| 19:33.13 | purl | This is IRC. Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help. |
| 19:33.14 | Lunessa | cog|work: it's an animated film. Being an animation fan, I try to see all big production films using animation - so that maybe there will be more of them. :D |
| 19:33.24 | cog|work | :P |
| 19:33.41 | Maldivia | well, it's not something that should be in any public logs |
| 19:33.44 | alestane | cog|work: Saint_N linked part of it above. |
| 19:33.54 | Cairenn | Maldivia: ask away - I trust you're registered and identified, otherwise you can't PM |
| 19:34.47 | alestane | Right after you recognized the reference. |
| 19:37.11 | alestane | It's a very sneaky book, too, it teaches you a lot about the value of knowledge and clear thought. |
| 19:40.33 | Lunessa | I like subversive stuff. :D |
| 19:40.45 | Lunessa | alestane: Read Diamond Age? |
| 19:41.02 | alestane | Lunessa: OOHH yes. |
| 19:41.35 | alestane | "The Diamond Age; or, A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer" by Neal Stephenson. |
| 19:41.44 | Saint-N | and chuck jones did a most excellent job animatiing it |
| 19:42.01 | Lunessa | Gramps had it right. Teach children to be subversive, question everything, think for themselves. But ground them in solid values, and basic education. Good stuff. |
| 19:42.21 | alestane | And here it was driving me nuts trying to remember where I'd seen that style. |
| 19:42.28 | Lunessa | Chuck Jones should be awarded a nobel prize. |
| 19:42.45 | Saint-N | if ya want a great trilogy get Bring methe head of prince Charming, If at Faust you don't succeed and a Farce to be Reckoned with, by Robert Scheckley and the guy that wrote the Amber series |
| 19:42.51 | Saint-N | Roger Zelazny |
| 19:43.08 | alestane | I've been chewing my way through the "Baroque Cycle" as well, but that's slower going. |
| 19:43.50 | Lunessa | Roger Zelazny is/was a personal hero. |
| 19:43.51 | Saint-N | and for a general good read The Stupidest Angel and Lamb by chirstopher moore |
| 19:43.56 | Saint-N | christopher moore |
| 19:44.01 | alestane | There's also a great, harder-to-fond book that I believe is also by Roger Zelazny, called "A Night in the Lonesome October." HIGHLY recommended if you can get your hands on it. |
| 19:44.05 | Lunessa | alestane: I'm waiting for the next novel in that series to come out. |
| 19:44.21 | Lunessa | Yes, it's the last novel he finished before his sudden death. |
| 19:44.24 | Saint-N | alestane: read it and own it don't really remember it though |
| 19:44.42 | alestane | Lunessa: I thought he was done...three huge books wasn't enough? |
| 19:45.33 | Saint-N | he wrote 10 books for the amber series ;P |
| 19:45.39 | Lunessa | alestane: No, there's more story to come. Book three makes it very clear he's not done yet. Especially since book 1, 2, & 3 are the events leading up to the first 3-4 chapters of book 1. |
| 19:46.09 | alestane | Good Lord. I haven't even started the third volume. |
| 19:46.25 | alestane | And they're not exactly small. |
| 19:46.52 | Lunessa | I've read most everything Zelazny had published, but I'm still seeking some of his more obscure stuff. He was a nice man and remembered me when we met the second time. |
| 19:46.53 | Saint-N | luney: chuck jones made all the good cartoons that werent warner bros. he should get a mobel prize for lifetime acheivement ;) |
| 19:47.05 | Saint-N | nobel |
| 19:47.43 | Lunessa | Saint-N: Yes, he should. Literature or artistic achievement or something. He did a lot to shape the culture of two generations of americans. |
| 19:47.59 | Saint-N | without being a huge sellout too |
| 19:48.10 | Saint-N | he's the bill watterson of his day ;P |
| 19:48.57 | Saint-N | just thinking how much calvin and hobbes and far side shaped my world view makes me teary that there wont be more. |
| 19:49.10 | alestane | My only problem with Waterson is that weve never heard anything from him since Calvin & Hobbes. |
| 19:49.15 | Saint-N | but at least i got the leatherbound boxed sets of each |
| 19:49.25 | Saint-N | thats what makes c&h great though |
| 19:49.47 | Saint-N | he wrote what he could, and instead of trailing off or starting something new that would never live up to c&h he just retired |
| 19:50.02 | alestane | I mean, I understand why he wrapped C&H, but what else must such a man have to offer us? |
| 19:50.28 | Saint-N | millions of adoring fans willing to keep c&h alive for generations |
| 19:50.38 | Saint-N | ;) |
| 19:51.02 | alestane | He was one of the few comic strip artists who really knew how to draw. |
| 19:51.07 | Saint-N | and really once you've coined the phrase ka-blooie what more needs to be done |
| 19:51.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge FullOfRage (n=FullOfRa@71.4.71.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 19:51.31 | Saint-N | Hampster huey and the gooey kablooie! |
| 19:51.59 | Saint-N | wow |
| 19:52.02 | Saint-N | Tony Snow resigned |
| 19:52.23 | Saint-N | flee little rats flee! |
| 19:53.54 | cog|work | I have to wonder if bush has something up his sleeves that's driving all his minions away... |
| 19:54.07 | Valaron|Work | The Bible. |
| 19:54.11 | Saint-N | laugh |
| 19:54.12 | cog|work | maybe he's planning to nuke the middle east... |
| 19:54.21 | alestane | However, I still feel that the greatest creative tragedy of our generation is the untimely death of James Maury Henson. |
| 19:54.23 | cog|work | Valaron|Work: afaik, all his cronies have that too... |
| 19:54.31 | Valaron|Work | True dat. |
| 19:55.04 | alestane | You know he was Lucas' first pick for Yoda, as well? |
| 19:55.14 | Saint-N | jim henson put it best when hesaid "i think i have a cold" |
| 19:55.37 | Saint-N | that i didnt know, i thought frank was the first and only pick |
| 19:55.57 | alestane | No, Henson turned the part down and suggested that Lucas talk to Oz. |
| 19:56.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Rallion (n=Rallion@cpe-24-195-130-102.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 19:56.40 | alestane | Thus the marked resemblance between the voices of the great jedi master and your cute lovable furry pal Grover. |
| 19:57.07 | cog|work | and bert |
| 19:57.17 | Valaron|Work | Oz is da man. |
| 19:57.19 | alestane | Other random piece of Star Wars casting trivia: Lucas' second choice for the part of Han Solo was Christopher Walkin. |
| 19:57.29 | Saint-N | that would have owned |
| 19:57.30 | cog|work | Bert & Ernie = Frank & Jim |
| 19:57.32 | Saint-N | SOOOOO hard |
| 19:57.57 | alestane | Would have been a very different character. |
| 19:58.04 | Saint-N | NEAR!!!!!!!!!! |
| 19:58.08 | Saint-N | .................................................................far |
| 19:58.36 | bl4q | I just know Bernie and Ert *g* |
| 19:58.51 | Saint-N | heh everytime i see or hear the word phenomenon i can't help my self and must verablize "do do dododo" |
| 20:00.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Rallion (i=HydraIRC@cpe-24-195-130-102.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 20:03.32 | amro|laptop | anyone know a decent webhost with mod_lua? |
| 20:07.57 | |FF|Im2good4u | LooL i got C stack overflwon in wow :P |
| 20:09.01 | foxlit | Did WoW crash? |
| 20:09.17 | foxlit | otherwise |
| 20:09.29 | amro|laptop | doubt it |
| 20:09.34 | amro|laptop | probably from lua code |
| 20:09.38 | foxlit | frame:SetScript("OnHide", frame.Show); frame:SetScript("OnShow", frame.Hide); -- does the trick |
| 20:09.38 | |FF|Im2good4u | maybe a self:Show() in OnUpdate wasnt verry smart after all :P but no i didnt crash i just got the red dialog popup |
| 20:09.59 | zenzelezz | OnUpdate doesn't happen if it's not Shown anyway |
| 20:10.19 | |FF|Im2good4u | verry tru however iv been struggling over my OnUpfate funtion the hole day now |
| 20:10.38 | foxlit | Simple answer to OnUpdate troubles: don't use OnUpdate :) |
| 20:10.57 | ckknight | Lunessa: lol, when'd I say that? |
| 20:11.01 | |FF|Im2good4u | if i add FauxScrollFrame_Update(self,RaidInfoTracker_NumItems,RaidInfoTracker_List_Lines,RaidInfoTracker_List_Line_Hight) it gets hidden somehow >.< |
| 20:11.06 | ckknight | Lunessa: I know I did, but it's been a while |
| 20:11.26 | foxlit | Okay |
| 20:11.35 | Lunessa | ckknight: It was in a Necro'ed thread about FuBar 2.0 |
| 20:11.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:11.39 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 20:11.41 | foxlit | Replace FauxScrollFrame_Update with a function that dumps its arguments to somewhere you can see |
| 20:11.43 | ckknight | ah, yea |
| 20:11.53 | foxlit | Then check FauxScrollFrame_Update code to see what's hiding your scrollframe |
| 20:12.09 | foxlit | It does hide the scrollbar in some cases |
| 20:12.33 | |FF|Im2good4u | well all arguments are static values |
| 20:12.48 | foxlit | "Hight"? |
| 20:13.05 | |FF|Im2good4u | i uses the same typo's all over my code so in the end its correct :P |
| 20:14.14 | foxlit | Nevertheless, check that you're calling it with what you think you're calling it |
| 20:14.29 | foxlit | Then walk through FauxScrollFrame_Update code and see what's hiding your frame |
| 20:15.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik|Ghost (i=skullsho@211.232.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 20:17.08 | clad|away | Cide: its gen_next(alphabet, current) |
| 20:17.23 | clad|away | lua> gen_next("abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz") |
| 20:17.23 | cladbot | clad|away: a, |
| 20:17.23 | |FF|Im2good4u | yes im trying that now. still its verry weird. sometimes it happents sometimes i doesnt is hella confusing lol :P |
| 20:17.28 | clad|away | lua> gen_next("abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz", "abc") |
| 20:17.28 | cladbot | clad|away: abd, |
| 20:17.38 | Cide | ah, thnanks |
| 20:17.43 | clad|away | off to football |
| 20:17.44 | Cide | thanks |
| 20:17.51 | Cide | >>> gen_next("a", "a") |
| 20:17.52 | Cide | Cide: [string "gen_next("a", "a")"]:1: attempt to call global 'gen_next' (a nil value) |
| 20:17.55 | Cide | err... |
| 20:17.59 | foxlit | Cide: "CR_Core\CT_Core_Chat_lua:116:attempt to concatenate local 'msg' (a boolean value)" |
| 20:18.00 | Cide | lua> gen_next("a", "a") |
| 20:18.00 | cladbot | Cide: aa, |
| 20:18.28 | foxlit | Probably my fault for calling something |
| 20:18.42 | Cide | foxlit: ChatFrame#:AddMessage(nil) |
| 20:18.50 | foxlit | boolean? |
| 20:18.58 | Cide | err, ya |
| 20:19.02 | Cide | true then |
| 20:19.19 | foxlit | Doesn't make sense :( |
| 20:19.24 | clad|away | Cide: http://cladhaire.pastey.net/73125 |
| 20:19.26 | Cide | ChatFrame#:AddMessage(true) |
| 20:19.31 | Cide | would attempt to do timestamp..true |
| 20:19.47 | foxlit | Interesting |
| 20:20.45 | clad|away | later all |
| 20:21.05 | foxlit | Have a rather odd bug report with a partial strack; but I really shouldn't be calling the default chat handler with true :/ |
| 20:23.26 | foxlit | Ooh, pwetty animations |
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| 20:38.48 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v norgs] by ChanServ |
| 20:41.16 | Kaydeethree | damn it... I should've expected this since my little brother's moved out of my parents' place... they're trying to guilt me into coming home |
| 20:41.50 | alestane | To visit, or to stay? |
| 20:41.54 | Kaydeethree | visit |
| 20:41.56 | Lunessa | Kaydeethree: It's what parents do. I'm damned near 40 and my folks keep hinting that I should move in with them. |
| 20:42.10 | Valaron|Work | Wha?!? |
| 20:43.10 | |FF|Im2good4u | oke i finely localised the problem if the numbero f items in my list are < then the number of line (when normaly my scrollbar get hidden) it hides my entire fuax frame :P |
| 20:43.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge [AD]snegoviK (i=sneg@maslov.intersv.com) |
| 20:45.13 | [AD]snegoviK | hi all |
| 20:45.22 | [AD]snegoviK | if someone got time can you please have a look at this code: |
| 20:45.23 | [AD]snegoviK | http://wowi.pastey.net/73128-3pu0 |
| 20:45.33 | [AD]snegoviK | if i ve been a tard please tell me why |
| 20:45.48 | [AD]snegoviK | and i pretty sure i ve been a tard |
| 20:46.02 | Iriel | What on earth are you doing with lines 4-9? |
| 20:46.16 | Thunder_Child | makingthem cry |
| 20:46.20 | Thunder_Child | making them* |
| 20:46.55 | alestane | That's one of the most random ways I've seen to assign single characters WTF? |
| 20:47.08 | Iriel | They're not even used more than once |
| 20:47.28 | Iriel | Why isn't line 10 just "[smhgdc]" ? |
| 20:47.44 | alestane | What he said. |
| 20:47.58 | [AD]snegoviK | oops. i forgot to comment that. forget about those lines :) treat it as if its "[smhgdc]" :) |
| 20:48.25 | Iriel | math.abs(-83) is completely unnecessary, just use 83 |
| 20:48.41 | alestane | Can't keep poring over it though, on a deadline here. |
| 20:48.44 | foxlit | So is string.char if you know the ascii code :( |
| 20:48.55 | Iriel | foxlit: I was about to say that also 8-) |
| 20:49.08 | [AD]snegoviK | they have nothing to do with the algorithm iriel, it was something i was testing and forgot to comment it out :) |
| 20:49.11 | foxlit | um |
| 20:49.12 | Iriel | That code is many times more complex than it needs to be |
| 20:49.19 | foxlit | local i = string.gmatch(str, "%d+" .. regex); |
| 20:49.24 | foxlit | for n in i do |
| 20:49.37 | |FF|Im2good4u | oO confuseh |
| 20:50.26 | [AD]snegoviK | Iriel: thats why i asked for help >_<. I wrote a working version, then i looked at it and decided its rubbish |
| 20:50.30 | [AD]snegoviK | but i ran out of ideas |
| 20:50.43 | Iriel | Use string.gmatch(str, "(%d+)([smhgdc])") |
| 20:50.45 | Iriel | Iterate over it |
| 20:50.57 | [AD]snegoviK | what about the part below that? |
| 20:51.09 | foxlit | if(n == nil) then -- this will never happen |
| 20:51.11 | [AD]snegoviK | the one which is basically like FMA :) |
| 20:51.15 | [AD]snegoviK | FSM* |
| 20:51.27 | [AD]snegoviK | it will happen if gmatch returns nil |
| 20:51.53 | Cide | [AD]snegoviK: you wouldn't get a loop iteration then |
| 20:51.55 | foxlit | You wouldn't be in that block if gmatch returned nil |
| 20:51.55 | Iriel | I'll start by asking if that's really necessary? Can't you just process each bit indepdendently? |
| 20:52.01 | [AD]snegoviK | yes you will, i tested it out |
| 20:52.06 | Iriel | You're using gmatch wrong |
| 20:52.09 | Iriel | it's supposed to be |
| 20:52.47 | Iriel | for val, n in string.gmatch(str, "(%d+)([smhgdc])") do ...... end |
| 20:53.07 | Cide | >>> for str in string.gmatch("abc", "(d)") do print(str); end |
| 20:53.07 | Cide | Cide: nil |
| 20:53.16 | Cide | doesn't iterate when gmatch returns nil |
| 20:53.32 | Cide | well, gmatch doesn't return nil technically |
| 20:53.33 | Iriel | What that wont handle, is of course junk in your string, but you can decide how to deal with that |
| 20:53.33 | foxlit | >>> print(); |
| 20:53.34 | Cide | foxlit: nil |
| 20:53.45 | foxlit | tsk! |
| 20:54.11 | [AD]snegoviK | the problem here is that if i do it the way you wrote Iriel it would be harder to stop the algorithm running if my string is junk |
| 20:54.16 | cog|work | foxlit: why "tsk!" |
| 20:54.26 | [AD]snegoviK | if i keep it my way, it triggers the if statement |
| 20:54.26 | Iriel | What do you accept in your string? |
| 20:54.30 | foxlit | [22:53] <Cide> >>> for str in string.gmatch("abc", "(d)") do print(str); end |
| 20:54.30 | foxlit | [22:53] <Cide> Cide: nil |
| 20:54.34 | Iriel | ONLY numbers and those symbols? |
| 20:54.38 | [AD]snegoviK | yes |
| 20:54.39 | Iriel | Do you care about what order they occur in? |
| 20:54.43 | [AD]snegoviK | yes |
| 20:54.49 | Cide | foxlit: hmm? |
| 20:54.56 | foxlit | It's amibigious :) |
| 20:55.02 | cog|work | yes it is... |
| 20:55.09 | Cide | err, true |
| 20:55.12 | foxlit | That nil could be print(str); when str == nil |
| 20:55.13 | Cide | >>> for str in string.gmatch("abc", "(d)") do print(str == nil); end |
| 20:55.14 | Cide | Cide: nil |
| 20:55.28 | Iriel | Give me a sec and i'll throw up my suggestion |
| 20:55.50 | cog|work | >>> return print("hi") |
| 20:55.50 | Cide | cog|work: "hi" |
| 20:56.20 | Iriel | [AD]snegoviK: What does the 'mode' return mean? or is that for internal use only? |
| 20:56.22 | cog|work | lua> print() |
| 20:56.23 | cladbot | cog|work: |
| 20:56.39 | zenzelezz | >>> |
| 20:56.43 | zenzelezz | aw |
| 20:56.57 | Iriel | Let me ask a different question... |
| 20:56.59 | [AD]snegoviK | its internal use, mode signifies what string looks like. so for e.g. if we go past "g" or "c" its money |
| 20:57.02 | zenzelezz | >>> ; |
| 20:57.03 | Cide | zenzelezz: nil |
| 20:57.12 | [AD]snegoviK | if its d, m or h its time |
| 20:57.13 | Iriel | Is this intended to take a string and return EITHER it as a time in seconds OR a value in copper? |
| 20:57.27 | [AD]snegoviK | something like that |
| 20:58.10 | Iriel | And accepts only those letters you include there, in the order specified (dhms) or (gsc) with no intervening spaces or punctuation? |
| 20:58.40 | Iriel | (and, as I noted earlier, do you NEED to care about order?) |
| 20:58.43 | [AD]snegoviK | yes. |
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| 20:58.44 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o dolby-wowi] by ChanServ |
| 20:58.54 | [AD]snegoviK | yes hdsm is invalid |
| 20:59.17 | Iriel | ok.. I can work with that 8-) |
| 20:59.17 | [AD]snegoviK | thats why i have that horrible spaggetti of ifs |
| 20:59.40 | [AD]snegoviK | i would prefer i guidance rather than a working solution tho Iriel : ) |
| 20:59.45 | foxlit | Is hms valid? |
| 20:59.55 | [AD]snegoviK | cus i treat it like a challenge : ) |
| 20:59.56 | foxlit | You can simplify the number of captures you do |
| 21:00.19 | [AD]snegoviK | hms is valid |
| 21:00.22 | [AD]snegoviK | so you can have |
| 21:00.28 | [AD]snegoviK | dhms, hms, ms or simply s |
| 21:00.40 | foxlit | But not hm? |
| 21:00.46 | [AD]snegoviK | there is ambiguity in this, because s can be seconds or s can be silver |
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| 21:01.01 | foxlit | So what do you want to do when someone gives you "5s"? |
| 21:01.22 | [AD]snegoviK | i treat it like value of unknown time |
| 21:01.24 | [AD]snegoviK | type* |
| 21:01.31 | [AD]snegoviK | it is then handled elsewhere |
| 21:02.09 | [AD]snegoviK | basically this is an extract from my calculator add-on code |
| 21:02.19 | Rallion | I am THIS (see here: >< ) close to buying LOTRO |
| 21:02.31 | foxlit | 2 pixels away? |
| 21:02.34 | foxlit | DON'T DO IT! |
| 21:03.00 | Rallion | I even still have 6 days on my free trial, I'm just like, damn, I wanna use the auction house. |
| 21:03.13 | Iriel | [AD]snegoviK: I'm only going to paste a snippet of a code, the implementation is your call |
| 21:03.24 | [AD]snegoviK | sure, that would be awesome |
| 21:03.38 | [AD]snegoviK | i just need a little help with the brainstorming :P |
| 21:05.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik|Ecole (n=nospam@155.31.175.212) |
| 21:06.19 | [AD]snegoviK | <foxlit> But not hm? -> you can have hm, so can you have ds |
| 21:06.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Matrix110 (i=bla@pD957F5F0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:06.31 | [AD]snegoviK | basically any convolution that preserves order days, hours, minutes, seconds |
| 21:07.09 | Shirik|Ecole | [AD]snegoviK: What's the AD stand for? |
| 21:07.29 | [AD]snegoviK | my stonemaul clan |
| 21:07.38 | Shirik|Ecole | ah |
| 21:07.46 | [AD]snegoviK | its just ad now, but long time ago it meant Absolute Domination :) |
| 21:07.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge |Jelly|Laptop (n=chatzill@adsl-76-215-79-94.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:08.00 | Iriel | http://wowi.pastey.net/73137 |
| 21:08.18 | Shirik|Ecole | AD to me meant Alchemic Dream :) |
| 21:08.33 | Iriel | Oops, typo.. one sec |
| 21:08.58 | Shirik|Ecole | ~lart Iriel |
| 21:08.58 | purl | blasts Iriel with a huge firehose then strangles Iriel with it |
| 21:09.02 | Shirik|Ecole | how dare you have typos! |
| 21:09.10 | Iriel | http://wowi.pastey.net/73138 |
| 21:09.15 | Iriel | That's better |
| 21:09.29 | zenzelezz | I don't make typos, I create alternative spellings |
| 21:09.32 | Iriel | If you get a failed match at any point and your input string isn't "" then the input string was invalid |
| 21:09.33 | [AD]snegoviK | surrounding the regex with ^$ is that just style or its something necessary ? |
| 21:09.40 | Iriel | It forces it to match the whole string |
| 21:09.49 | Shirik|Ecole | it's only necessary in certain conditions |
| 21:09.50 | Shirik|Ecole | this is one of them |
| 21:09.57 | Shirik|Ecole | and it's not a regex |
| 21:10.02 | Iriel | That way you can't do "3h27m5s [AD]snegoviK is cool" |
| 21:10.03 | [AD]snegoviK | so without them the thing will succeed only if 1 capture matches? |
| 21:10.19 | Shirik|Ecole | ^ asserts that you are at the beginning of the string |
| 21:10.22 | Iriel | without them it can use any substring |
| 21:10.25 | Shirik|Ecole | $ asserts that you are at the end of the string |
| 21:10.33 | Shirik|Ecole | thus, wrapping with the two asserts that it is the entire string |
| 21:11.05 | [AD]snegoviK | ah |
| 21:11.07 | [AD]snegoviK | neat : ) |
| 21:11.30 | Shirik|Ecole | it is worth pointing out that ^ has a second meaning, too, in character classes |
| 21:11.39 | Iriel | The code is somewhat complicated by the ambiguity of s, and the ordering reqirement |
| 21:11.39 | Shirik|Ecole | so don't get confused |
| 21:11.45 | Lunessa | <--- Total ass hat moment: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1371597947&postId=13712358596&sid=1#8 |
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| 21:12.22 | Shirik|Ecole | Lunessa: I would never DARE venturing outside the UI forums |
| 21:12.24 | Shirik|Ecole | UI is bad enough |
| 21:12.33 | [AD]snegoviK | Shirik: yep, i know about that :) |
| 21:12.35 | Lunessa | Guild Relations is pretty ok. :) |
| 21:12.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge blq (i=Bl@dslb-088-065-174-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:12.53 | [AD]snegoviK | Iriel: thanks alot. i would've never came up with something like this |
| 21:13.11 | [AD]snegoviK | its too... too neat |
| 21:13.16 | Iriel | I'm not sure it's optimal but I think it'll be a whole lot simpler and cleaner |
| 21:13.22 | [AD]snegoviK | doh |
| 21:13.23 | [AD]snegoviK | -.- |
| 21:13.25 | Iriel | Plus you make the regexp do most of the validation work for you |
| 21:13.30 | [AD]snegoviK | yeap |
| 21:13.32 | [AD]snegoviK | yep* |
| 21:13.44 | Cairenn | later all |
| 21:14.03 | zenzelezz | quit spamming Cairenn! |
| 21:14.11 | [AD]snegoviK | Shirik: [AD] i keep on putting this on when i m in the realm chan |
| 21:14.15 | [AD]snegoviK | so they know who i am |
| 21:14.16 | Iriel | The only thing I dont really like about it is that it requires so many patterns and intermediate strings |
| 21:14.17 | zenzelezz | and she did |
| 21:15.01 | Shirik|Ecole | zenzelezz: ? |
| 21:15.10 | Shirik|Ecole | oh |
| 21:16.07 | Iriel | If it were my code i'd be more inclined to not care about ordering, validate up front against something like "^%d[0-9dhmsgc]*[dhmsgc]$" and then iterate a gmatch of ("(%d*)([dhmsgc])") |
| 21:17.50 | [AD]snegoviK | your first pattern why not ^(%d+)([dhms])([0-9hms]*)$ ? |
| 21:17.58 | [AD]snegoviK | this one is so much more readable |
| 21:18.17 | Iriel | It is in the version I gave you, because you need that 3rd capture, and validation of structure happens automatically |
| 21:19.07 | [AD]snegoviK | how exactly is ^%d[0-9dhmsgc]*[dhmsgc]$ different ? |
| 21:19.17 | Iriel | 1) it has no captures |
| 21:19.17 | [AD]snegoviK | it looks pretty much the same to me |
| 21:19.23 | Iriel | That's the biggest difference |
| 21:19.36 | Iriel | and 2 it doesn't care which order the letters come in |
| 21:19.52 | Iriel | But the patterns in the code snippet I gave you NEED to stay the way they are |
| 21:20.13 | [AD]snegoviK | why do you need captures if you arent going to use them ? |
| 21:20.21 | Iriel | because they're critical to making it work (You'll notice each pattern validates the 'next' thing and, to the best of its ability, what's next) |
| 21:20.26 | Iriel | In my snippet you DO use the captures |
| 21:20.29 | [AD]snegoviK | i mean, i thought captures are used when you have recursive structure of strings |
| 21:20.51 | Iriel | for every one of those patterns you'd use local val, code, rest = string.gmatch(input, PATTERN) |
| 21:21.01 | Iriel | Sorry, string.match, not gmatch |
| 21:21.20 | Iriel | if vall == nil then the input is bad, and you can fail |
| 21:21.28 | Shirik|Ecole | Iriel, that's two typos in 30 minutes. I refuse to believe it's you |
| 21:21.32 | Shirik|Ecole | The real Iriel doesn't make that many mistakes |
| 21:21.49 | Iriel | heh, making mistakes is fine, not catching them is a problem. |
| 21:21.59 | Shirik|Ecole | this is another problem: |
| 21:22.00 | [AD]snegoviK | oh so when you use match it splits the captures into different variables? |
| 21:22.02 | Shirik|Ecole | 172:182:24 12‹CIA-712› Conspiracy: 03cidan * r101 10/Conspiracy/ (Windows/Cell.lua Framework/Theme.lua): Fixed small bug with Hello Kitty D: |
| 21:22.03 | zenzelezz | he's just busy trying to Ace your code Shirik |
| 21:22.04 | Shirik|Ecole | ~lart Cidan |
| 21:22.04 | purl | puts on some milking gloves. "All right, now, Cidan, this won't hurt a bit...." |
| 21:22.24 | Iriel | [AD]snegoviK: Yes, that's the PRIMARY use of captures in lua patterns |
| 21:22.34 | [AD]snegoviK | i didnt know that :) |
| 21:22.39 | Iriel | [AD]snegoviK: Again, make the pattern library do your work for you |
| 21:22.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Viserion (n=Viserion@dial-69-55-144-245.sofnet.net) |
| 21:23.08 | Shirik|Ecole | you could, if you really wanted to, use string.find and then string.sub |
| 21:23.18 | Shirik|Ecole | after string.find to ensure the entire string matches |
| 21:23.23 | Shirik|Ecole | it would be incredibly stupid, but possible |
| 21:23.44 | [AD]snegoviK | i m just thinking that relaxing the rules about order might not be such a bad thing |
| 21:23.56 | [AD]snegoviK | after all, who would ever write 2132s2g3c? |
| 21:24.00 | [AD]snegoviK | and someone will, np |
| 21:24.06 | [AD]snegoviK | if* |
| 21:24.13 | Shirik|Ecole | well.... you /could/ do something like this |
| 21:24.30 | Shirik|Ecole | (%d+)([gsc]) |
| 21:24.35 | Shirik|Ecole | match it up to 3 times |
| 21:24.42 | Shirik|Ecole | string.gmatch might help there |
| 21:25.42 | [AD]snegoviK | hm |
| 21:25.55 | [AD]snegoviK | what do you think of shiriks suggestion Iriel ? : ) |
| 21:26.04 | [AD]snegoviK | Shiriks* sorry ^^ |
| 21:26.13 | Iriel | That fails at ordering |
| 21:26.20 | Iriel | I did ask about ordering something like 5 times |
| 21:26.23 | [AD]snegoviK | i mean if you dump the ordering |
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| 21:26.56 | [AD]snegoviK | at first i decided to preserve order, but now i m thinking that dumping it might not be a bad thing |
| 21:27.06 | Iriel | Oh, well, then yes, that's how I said i'd probably write it myself.. Basically a simple 'up front' format check then a string.match iterator with a single constant pattern |
| 21:27.06 | Shirik|Ecole | Iriel: Yeah he said he might consider dropping the order |
| 21:27.15 | Shirik|Ecole | like this: http://wowi.pastey.net/73143 |
| 21:27.49 | Shirik|Ecole | please use better var names when you do it |
| 21:27.54 | Shirik|Ecole | I was being unjustifiably lazy |
| 21:28.23 | Shirik|Ecole | and line 9 should be n = n + z * x |
| 21:28.24 | Shirik|Ecole | not t |
| 21:28.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight_ (n=ckknight@cpe-67-49-153-42.hawaii.res.rr.com) |
| 21:28.27 | [AD]snegoviK | hm? it looks good enough to me |
| 21:28.34 | Shirik|Ecole | that's what you get for using bad var names |
| 21:28.51 | [AD]snegoviK | the only thing it lacks is teh "^...$" thing |
| 21:28.58 | alestane | Later folks |
| 21:29.02 | Shirik|Ecole | well it can't have it this time |
| 21:29.15 | Shirik|Ecole | because you're not matching the full string. You can't even assert that it's at the beginning or end |
| 21:29.19 | Shirik|Ecole | by definition those would only ever happen once |
| 21:29.53 | [AD]snegoviK | by definition is a good way to put it ^^ |
| 21:30.22 | Shirik|Ecole | do you understand why it can't happen? |
| 21:30.23 | Iriel | I'd embellish shirik's code by an up front validation (with ^ and $) that the input isn't total garbage |
| 21:30.40 | Shirik|Ecole | Iriel: Can you do that? Wouldn't it only match once? |
| 21:31.24 | Iriel | if (not string.find("^%d[0-9gsc]*[gsc]$")) then ERROR("This is junk") end |
| 21:31.29 | Iriel | before the loop |
| 21:31.36 | Iriel | err, string.find(foo, .....) |
| 21:31.39 | Iriel | You know what I mean 8-) |
| 21:31.40 | Shirik|Ecole | oh ok |
| 21:31.42 | Shirik|Ecole | I see now |
| 21:31.45 | Iriel | I hate writing 'code' into IRC |
| 21:31.50 | [AD]snegoviK | :) |
| 21:32.14 | [AD]snegoviK | what about 2g2g2g? |
| 21:32.24 | Iriel | You'd have to catch that yourself, if you cared. |
| 21:32.28 | Iriel | personally I might not care again |
| 21:32.40 | Iriel | like the ordering thing, as long as you behave sanely (equivalent to 6g) then you're probably fine |
| 21:32.45 | Shirik|Ecole | I probably wouldn't care about that |
| 21:32.46 | Shirik|Ecole | myself |
| 21:32.55 | Shirik|Ecole | >>> http://wowi.pastey.net/73146 |
| 21:32.56 | Cide | Shirik|Ecole: [string "foo = "3g45s2c"..."]:2: bad argument #2 to 'find' (string expected, got no value) |
| 21:32.59 | Shirik|Ecole | =( |
| 21:33.05 | Shirik|Ecole | oops |
| 21:33.09 | Iriel | The internet protocol philosophy is a good one: Output in as strict adherence to standards as possible, input with as much flexibility as possible. |
| 21:33.10 | Shirik|Ecole | I fell into Iriel's trap |
| 21:33.17 | Iriel | (I'm sure they right it better) |
| 21:33.35 | Iriel | damn, I'm sure they WRITE it better. |
| 21:33.38 | [AD]snegoviK | yea. you make sense |
| 21:33.40 | Iriel | What is wrong with me. I need coffee. |
| 21:33.51 | Shirik|Ecole | >>> http://wowi.pastey.net/73147 |
| 21:33.55 | Cide | Shirik|Ecole: 34502 |
| 21:33.57 | Shirik|Ecole | yey |
| 21:33.57 | cog|work | Iriel: i've been typing likck crap all day |
| 21:34.01 | cog|work | :S see? |
| 21:34.03 | Shirik|Ecole | [AD]snegoviK: Try that one :) |
| 21:34.49 | [AD]snegoviK | i hate you now |
| 21:34.49 | Iriel | 's' is going to be a big problem for you |
| 21:34.53 | [AD]snegoviK | you ve done all the work for me! |
| 21:34.59 | [AD]snegoviK | i m so lazy -.- |
| 21:35.08 | Iriel | Unless you make all of your times centiseconds, anyway 8-) |
| 21:36.20 | [AD]snegoviK | yes, i know. avoid ambiguity at all costs is a right thing to do, but i decided that using s for silver and secs for seconds is just lame |
| 21:36.27 | [AD]snegoviK | so a bit of challenge wont hurt :) |
| 21:36.54 | [AD]snegoviK | 2d3h2m52sec <- how lame is that? |
| 21:37.00 | [AD]snegoviK | s looks so much better |
| 21:37.11 | Shirik|Ecole | Iriel: Centiseconds :) |
| 21:37.14 | Shirik|Ecole | anyway |
| 21:37.17 | Shirik|Ecole | headed back home |
| 21:38.15 | cog|work | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1371638101 |
| 21:38.28 | [AD]snegoviK | i would just like to thanks Iriel and Shirik again. you guys really helped me out |
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| 21:38.42 | [AD]snegoviK | thank* |
| 21:38.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge norg_away (n=Ken_Alla@203.185.208.241) |
| 21:39.55 | Lunessa | cog|work: /snicker/ |
| 21:40.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Joshua@adsl-219-43-183.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:43.13 | Iriel | [AD]snegoviK: You could always ask yourself why the code that calls this method doesn't know if it's dealing with money or time. I know they say 'time is money' but it's not LITERALLY true |
| 21:43.43 | zenzelezz | lol |
| 21:44.08 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 21:44.08 | Lunessa | I wish it were, 'cause I'd trade in money to get more time. |
| 21:44.30 | cog|work | srsly |
| 21:44.35 | cog|work | WTB 8 more hours per day |
| 21:44.47 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 21:45.25 | Lunessa | WTB: 200 more years. |
| 21:45.50 | [AD]snegoviK | Iriel, good point. it was because i was lazy to edit my LL(1) parser |
| 21:45.54 | zenzelezz | you need to remember to ask for eternal youth if you ask for that Lunessa |
| 21:46.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ven (n=ven@i59F56904.versanet.de) |
| 21:46.16 | Lunessa | Not eternal youth, just good health and a sturdy body. |
| 21:46.43 | Lunessa | I mean, as long as I can still bow-chikka-bow-bow at 270 I'll be happy. :) |
| 21:47.15 | [AD]snegoviK | the parser just buffers characters one after another if it cant match them to any of the tokens, it checks characters for validity |
| 21:47.22 | wereHamster | cog|work, just redefine a day to be 32 hours :) |
| 21:47.37 | cog|work | wereHamster: don't think my boss would appreciate that much... |
| 21:48.00 | cog|work | but it would be nice to have a power of 2 |
| 21:48.14 | wereHamster | I've heard of people who redefined a week to be only five days (because they said it's more natural or whatever) and lived like that for a couple of weeks.. |
| 21:48.19 | [AD]snegoviK | i guess, i can extend it to run checks on the buffer in real time |
| 21:51.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge GofG (n=Gofg@cpe-069-134-155-140.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 21:51.36 | [AD]snegoviK | Iriel, are you the CM of the WoW interface customization board? |
| 21:51.52 | [AD]snegoviK | oops cm is the wrong abbreviation |
| 21:51.59 | [AD]snegoviK | i forgot what you guys are called :P |
| 21:52.07 | wereHamster | gods? |
| 21:52.20 | cog|work | MVP |
| 21:52.23 | [AD]snegoviK | mvp yea |
| 21:52.24 | cog|work | and, yes |
| 21:53.56 | Iriel | Yes, I am. |
| 21:54.10 | Iriel | its a dirty job but someone's got to do it |
| 21:54.27 | cog|work | I thought i did the dirty part :P |
| 21:54.46 | Iriel | You're in the untouchable caste now, I can't speak to you |
| 21:54.52 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 21:55.12 | Iriel | Please go stand in the corner, and dont make eye contact with my livestock. |
| 21:57.46 | Thunder_Child | Iriel is just afraid that someone else isgoing to steal his livestocks heart |
| 21:58.25 | Thunder_Child | oh...you were going ti sell them....my mistake |
| 21:59.33 | Iriel | There's a remarkably vibrant market for cows who can create WoW AddOns. |
| 22:00.24 | Lunessa | I shall make an AddOn, and it shall be called... Guernsey and provide milk to the masses. |
| 22:00.33 | Shirik | [AD]snegoviK: Not a problem |
| 22:00.43 | Shirik | Lunessa: -_- |
| 22:00.51 | Iriel | Ok.. I need to idle and get some work done. |
| 22:01.10 | [AD]snegoviK | whatever you guys say wow customization forum is awesome |
| 22:01.22 | [AD]snegoviK | its a shame eu community doesnt have the right to post there |
| 22:01.23 | JoshBorke | bb iriel |
| 22:01.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mike-N-Go (n=MikeNGoS@64.193.93.197) |
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| 22:01.47 | *** part/#wowi-lounge cncfanatic1 (i=evolve@134.148-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 22:03.37 | Lunessa | Shirik: You don't like cows? |
| 22:03.45 | Shirik | I never said that |
| 22:03.54 | Cidan | What? |
| 22:04.00 | Cidan | Shirik doesn't like cows? |
| 22:04.24 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Punkie` (n=~@host86-143-26-31.range86-143.btcentralplus.com) |
| 22:04.57 | zenzelezz | <[AD]snegoviK> its a shame eu community doesnt have the right to post there <--- it's to protect us from stooping to the level of the average American poster |
| 22:05.11 | Cidan | lulz? |
| 22:05.15 | JoshBorke | woohoo! i'm not average! |
| 22:05.49 | [AD]snegoviK | haha. tbh the level of average european poster isnt much higher. |
| 22:05.57 | [AD]snegoviK | idiots are the same everywhere |
| 22:06.03 | zenzelezz | quiet you |
| 22:06.12 | zenzelezz | we don't want the Americans to know that |
| 22:06.15 | cog|work | Shirik: Ace cows |
| 22:06.42 | Lunessa | Dongle Cows. |
| 22:08.07 | [AD]snegoviK | in soviet russia cows dongle you |
| 22:08.20 | [AD]snegoviK | or ace |
| 22:08.23 | [AD]snegoviK | or whatever:P |
| 22:08.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@cpe-72-130-222-166.hawaii.res.rr.com) |
| 22:08.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Seppidane (i=sepp@dslb-082-083-120-125.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:09.38 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Seppidane (i=sepp@dslb-082-083-120-125.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:14.32 | Shirik | Does anyone know what language this is in? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y8oDnjkS7E&watch_response |
| 22:15.00 | Shirik | (please don't kill me for linking it again) |
| 22:16.16 | foxlit | Shirik attacks you with "EPILLEPTIC FLASHING ATTACK!" |
| 22:16.50 | [AD]snegoviK | my creative audigy 2 zs died today |
| 22:16.51 | foxlit | You resist Shirik's "EPILLEPTIC FLASHING ATTACK!". |
| 22:17.13 | foxlit | Shirik: think I know, sec |
| 22:17.44 | foxlit | Swedish. |
| 22:18.16 | Cide | Shirik: swedish, yeah |
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| 22:18.29 | Shirik | That seems like a fun language to learn :) |
| 22:18.42 | Shirik | it just sounds smooth |
| 22:18.44 | [AD]snegoviK | everyone makes anime cut outs with this track |
| 22:18.45 | Cide | it's supposedly one of the more difficult languages to learn |
| 22:18.51 | Shirik | I'm not surprised |
| 22:18.52 | foxlit | That's the song, tbh :) |
| 22:19.17 | Shirik | [AD]snegoviK: I know, I've been tracking this song for a while now |
| 22:19.22 | foxlit | Change of topic time :) |
| 22:19.27 | Shirik | This is not the first time I found it, just the first time with lyrics |
| 22:19.49 | foxlit | If I wanted to auth against phpbb, but didn't want to use phpbb's sessions system, what would be a "safe" way to manage sessions? |
| 22:19.51 | [AD]snegoviK | osaka-style :) |
| 22:20.21 | [AD]snegoviK | yea about my audigy 2, it died after connecting ipod thru firewire to it |
| 22:20.22 | foxlit | I'm thinking of giving the client a hashed token and an expire date |
| 22:20.47 | Shirik | foxlit: Please don't use $_SESSION |
| 22:21.00 | foxlit | It'll end up in cookies anyway |
| 22:21.04 | Cide | Shirik: why not? |
| 22:21.07 | Shirik | PHP |
| 22:21.13 | Iriel | foxlit: That's a fairly standard technique (or randomly generated session identifiers, table backed, with a date component to stop accidental collisions over time) |
| 22:21.13 | Shirik | PHP's session system is a pos |
| 22:21.18 | art3mis | woo my red dwarf dvds came today! |
| 22:21.18 | Cide | Shirik: because? |
| 22:21.29 | Shirik | It's easy to take over others' sessions |
| 22:21.38 | Shirik | every secure system I've ever seen has always used cookies directly |
| 22:22.07 | Cide | *shrug* |
| 22:22.07 | foxlit | Iriel: the trick is that I don't really want to store anything; client-side tokens should be able to serve as their own authentification |
| 22:22.16 | art3mis | dont listen to shirik he's crazy! |
| 22:22.20 | art3mis | crazy i tells ya! |
| 22:22.28 | Shirik | It's in every good PHP book I've ever read |
| 22:22.35 | Shirik | they introduce $_SESSION variables and then throw them out |
| 22:22.50 | foxlit | It's trivial to avoid $_SESSION anyway :) |
| 22:22.55 | Shirik | it is |
| 22:22.56 | art3mis | Crazy Joes Guide to Pigs, Ham and Pumpkins is NOT a PHP book shirik ;P |
| 22:23.00 | Shirik | ..... |
| 22:23.15 | Iriel | foxlit: Hm, you need to be careful with what goes into the hash then |
| 22:23.50 | Shirik | even PHP mentions this problem on their site |
| 22:23.51 | Shirik | "The session module cannot guarantee that the information you store in a session is only viewed by the user who created the session. You need to take additional measures to actively protect the integrity of the session, depending on the value associated with it. " |
| 22:24.03 | Shirik | And if you're going to take those additional measures, might as well make your own system from the start |
| 22:24.29 | [AD]snegoviK | is it the same in PHP5? |
| 22:24.34 | Shirik | yes |
| 22:24.42 | foxlit | Timestamp should be part of it to stop you from prolonging expired sessions |
| 22:24.52 | Shirik | sessions are good for non-security-sensitive simple transistions |
| 22:25.00 | Shirik | anything beyond that should be handled more extensively |
| 22:25.05 | foxlit | Something to tell me who you/what your permissions are should be part of it as well |
| 22:25.25 | foxlit | And I probably want some sort of secret, static, server-side component that'd make sure the client can't just generate a valid hash |
| 22:26.16 | [AD]snegoviK | yea sum of username ascii characters wont be a good hash, will it? : )))) |
| 22:26.25 | Lunessa | Ok, I'm out. I'm headed home. |
| 22:26.28 | foxlit | Not really, but then again. |
| 22:26.31 | Shirik | foxlit: the general way I do it is this |
| 22:26.57 | Shirik | allow user to log in, create them a session ID, record that into the database with their IP and generate a stronghold cookie |
| 22:27.24 | foxlit | Shirik: storing the session ID is failing one of the pre-reqs :) |
| 22:27.34 | Shirik | did I miss something you need? |
| 22:27.42 | foxlit | I don't want to have to store anything |
| 22:27.53 | Shirik | oh, server-side? |
| 22:28.05 | foxlit | Yeah |
| 22:28.07 | Shirik | eh, then you're going to run into security constraints really |
| 22:28.16 | Shirik | the same issue with $_SESSION |
| 22:28.27 | Shirik | it'll be easy to take over a user's session if they can determine the hash |
| 22:28.40 | Shirik | my session IDs change on every page load |
| 22:28.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@user-118buas.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 22:28.50 | foxlit | Urgh |
| 22:29.09 | foxlit | And you avoid race-conditions with multiple HTTP tunnels how? |
| 22:29.18 | Kalroth | Shirik: That seems a bit overkill unless it's really, really needed :) |
| 22:29.23 | Shirik | I completely agree |
| 22:29.27 | Shirik | it may be overkill |
| 22:29.38 | Shirik | depends on what you need |
| 22:29.39 | Iriel | If you care about security then I feel you use both a random session ID (with a server side database) combined with a secure (https) cookie for verification. |
| 22:30.00 | Iriel | session ids changing on every page load seems completely antithetical to the idea of a session |
| 22:30.02 | Kalroth | Just use https, it's that simple :) |
| 22:30.07 | Shirik | foxlit: I avoid this because the server and the client know exactly what the next session ID will be |
| 22:30.08 | [AD]snegoviK | yea exactly why not use encryption |
| 22:30.10 | Iriel | if it changes every page, then what's the id *FOR* |
| 22:30.23 | Shirik | however in 99% of cases, the hacker won |
| 22:30.25 | Shirik | won't |
| 22:30.49 | Iriel | Shirik: Assuming you're not using https, how can the hacker NOT know what the client knows? |
| 22:30.57 | foxlit | You can hash a bit of stuff into the session token |
| 22:31.04 | Shirik | it's why I said 99% of time :) |
| 22:31.06 | Iriel | Shirik: The whole reason sessions are vulnerable in the first place is because the hacker can see all the data the client receives |
| 22:31.16 | Shirik | the only way they can know is if they saw the initial login |
| 22:31.22 | Iriel | Shirik: Unless the hacker is watching that flow you dont really have to worry at all (other than blind chance) |
| 22:31.32 | Shirik | at that time, the client is sent one extra number |
| 22:31.58 | Shirik | sorry healing >.> |
| 22:32.00 | Iriel | And where does the client PUT that one extra number? |
| 22:32.04 | Shirik | anyway here's the deal |
| 22:32.25 | Shirik | I forget I wrote this so long ago... that's a good question actually |
| 22:32.52 | [AD]snegoviK | Into C:\keytoshirikswww.txt ofc :) |
| 22:32.58 | Shirik | anyway the next session id is generated by md5(session .. key) |
| 22:33.09 | [AD]snegoviK | the number is also an admin passwd i guess :) |
| 22:33.11 | Iriel | Often you can split your state between 'stuff I dont care about' (use cookies, or whatever) and stuff you really do care about (store it server side with a well managed client side session key) |
| 22:33.16 | Kalroth | If you want secure, then use https. If you want semi-secure (login hash, etc) then normal sessions are just fine |
| 22:33.29 | Iriel | Shirik: What happens when there's a connection failure? |
| 22:33.35 | Kalroth | in 99.9999% hackers can't be arsed with a middleman attack :) |
| 22:33.35 | Iriel | Shirik: And I 'm assuming you only have one server, not a pool of 100? |
| 22:33.43 | Shirik | it has ways of going backwards :) and yes only 1 |
| 22:34.13 | Shirik | I forget the exact details of how it works |
| 22:34.16 | Iriel | So if it can go backwards, can't the attacker simply re-use old keys? |
| 22:34.17 | Shirik | I wrote it two years ago, haven't touched it since |
| 22:34.20 | Shirik | they can't |
| 22:34.29 | Iriel | How does the server tell the difference? |
| 22:34.43 | Iriel | (between a retry and an attack) |
| 22:34.48 | Shirik | the server has an algorithm to try to make an educated guess over which it was |
| 22:34.50 | foxlit | After you shift to a new key, don't accept the old key? |
| 22:34.55 | Shirik | which also depends on what the next action is |
| 22:35.14 | Shirik | i.e., if we're looking at two different connections, one user is 5 ahead of another |
| 22:35.16 | Shirik | we know there's a problem |
| 22:35.23 | Shirik | it also looks at IPs too |
| 22:35.37 | Iriel | that can be tricky if your user is an AOL client |
| 22:35.42 | Iriel | freakin proxies |
| 22:35.42 | Shirik | it's not |
| 22:35.48 | Shirik | it doesn't look for an exact match |
| 22:36.05 | Shirik | I haven't had any problems with it, but I know I'm not doing it justice right now |
| 22:36.10 | Shirik | it's more complex than I'm making it seem right now |
| 22:36.10 | Iriel | some of AOL's customers bounce all over the place |
| 22:36.14 | Iriel | it's a real pain in the ass |
| 22:36.15 | [AD]snegoviK | ips is such a bad way to identify a user. in Russia/Ukraine alot of people share the same external IP, there was so many problems with implementations based on IP identification |
| 22:36.16 | foxlit | How much do you discard? 1? 2 bytes? |
| 22:36.30 | Shirik | Iriel, like I said, it's not looking for the match at first |
| 22:36.41 | Shirik | it only cares when it sees something strange going on |
| 22:36.45 | foxlit | IPs aren't really used for authentification - merely to stop someone with an entirely different IP from claiming to be you |
| 22:37.06 | foxlit | Don't really care if the half the world has one IP - the other half won't be able to impersonate them :) |
| 22:37.10 | Iriel | foxlit: But that's the AOL problem... |
| 22:37.13 | foxlit | UA hash! |
| 22:37.14 | Shirik | some day I'll hop on the server and show you the code |
| 22:37.18 | Iriel | foxlit: You may have 3 completely different IP's |
| 22:37.22 | Shirik | then maybe I can explain it better |
| 22:37.27 | Shirik | like I said I wrote this two years ago |
| 22:37.28 | Iriel | foxlit: And they indiscriminantly flip from one to another |
| 22:37.30 | Shirik | it's still in use today, it must work |
| 22:37.36 | foxlit | Yeah, I deal with that by discarding c.d from a.b.c.d |
| 22:37.59 | [AD]snegoviK | the thing is that it is far more likely for someone to try and claim your access to data from the ip which is similar to yours |
| 22:37.59 | Iriel | foxlit: I'm not sure that's always enough, but I suspect it helps greatly. |
| 22:38.09 | foxlit | Which doesn't really prevent people from within AOL from stealing each other's tokens, but at least they should be able to log in |
| 22:38.21 | [AD]snegoviK | because the person is likely to live/work somewhere close by |
| 22:38.30 | [AD]snegoviK | higher chance of him knowing something about the usere |
| 22:38.32 | [AD]snegoviK | user* |
| 22:39.00 | foxlit | If someone knows something about the user, there are a lot of easier attack vectors than stealing auth tokens :) |
| 22:39.12 | Iriel | Generally you can make secure data only ever flow from the client to the server, and neverback the other way, and that takes care of most issues anyway (and when it does flow, it's https) |
| 22:39.42 | [AD]snegoviK | yea, and i bet he will be using a proxy in Zimbabwe, noone is stupid enough to attack a friend in the open |
| 22:40.22 | Shirik | still, it doesn't change the fact that $_SESSION is insecure |
| 22:40.26 | Shirik | no matter what I use |
| 22:40.29 | Shirik | and php.net admits this |
| 22:40.39 | Shirik | (insecure by itself) |
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| 22:40.59 | amro|laptop | php itself sucks imo |
| 22:41.00 | foxlit | Isn't any "Here's a token, run with it" system insecure by the same definition? |
| 22:41.09 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v norgs] by ChanServ |
| 22:41.20 | foxlit | Store some session-verifying data in $_SESSION, compare it against $_REQUEST |
| 22:41.27 | foxlit | If it fails, reject session. |
| 22:41.42 | foxlit | Saves you some cookie-management, and the &sid= rewrite is hot :) |
| 22:42.33 | Iriel | I've embraced cookies these days |
| 22:42.43 | Iriel | No need for URL re-writing, plus users are dumb and mail them to each other |
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| 22:43.21 | [AD]snegoviK | what i dont understand is this. if $_SESSION is insecure, why not just use an existing encrypted protocol? What is the point of writing all the complex maths, when you gona and up with, highly likely, a weaker security measure? |
| 22:43.38 | [AD]snegoviK | end up* |
| 22:43.51 | foxlit | HTTPS isn't always an option |
| 22:43.53 | Iriel | [AD]snegoviK: Overhead |
| 22:44.04 | Iriel | HTTPS is quite expensive, not to mention a pain to set up 'properly' |
| 22:44.29 | [AD]snegoviK | its not free? |
| 22:44.32 | [AD]snegoviK | omg |
| 22:44.35 | [AD]snegoviK | -.- |
| 22:44.39 | Shirik | heh |
| 22:44.44 | Shirik | nothing is free |
| 22:44.51 | Iriel | Actually, it's completely free |
| 22:45.03 | [AD]snegoviK | what do you mean by expensive then? |
| 22:45.04 | Shirik | I mean in size :P |
| 22:45.06 | Iriel | I meant 'expensive' in terms of CPU requirements and time |
| 22:45.13 | [AD]snegoviK | ah, ok |
| 22:45.42 | foxlit | CA-approved certificates do cost things, though |
| 22:45.55 | Iriel | Well yes.. if you want a cert someone else vouches for then you have to pay |
| 22:46.03 | Iriel | But you can always create your own CA and give that cert to your users |
| 22:46.12 | Iriel | They dont know they CAN trust you, but once they choose to trust you they're sety |
| 22:46.49 | foxlit | Non-CA-signed certificates make such a fuss in modern browsers, tbh :( |
| 22:47.07 | Iriel | So, install your CA cert into your browser.. done! |
| 22:47.17 | [AD]snegoviK | not everyone is that clever |
| 22:47.20 | [AD]snegoviK | :) |
| 22:47.28 | foxlit | That proccess raises flags as well :) |
| 22:47.36 | foxlit | "WTH is this dialog?! More Spyware, zomg!" |
| 22:47.52 | Iriel | well, asking non-informed users to do it is likely not a good idea, for sure |
| 22:48.03 | [AD]snegoviK | yea. my father went mad when my imap server asked him to accept its cerficate |
| 22:48.28 | Iriel | Overreaction to browser questions is, on the other hand, just counterproductive |
| 22:49.54 | [AD]snegoviK | people tend to be exteme in their actions. its either click yes and not read or panic and snatch the power cord out of the socket. People who are adequate are always a minority. |
| 22:50.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge GomiNoSensei (n=tonyd@d207-216-208-189.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 22:51.02 | foxlit | liesdamnliesandstatistics |
| 22:52.09 | [AD]snegoviK | yea. stereotypes are evil. but if you never simplify, you cant be abstract. and if you cant be abstract, there are just too many thing to worry about ^^ |
| 22:52.52 | cog|work | stereotypes aren't evil... they're human nature... being able to classify things is exactly what makes humans unique in the world. |
| 22:52.57 | art3mis | https is always an option |
| 22:53.22 | art3mis | if its not stop trying to be a hero and get a real host/connection ;) |
| 22:53.34 | foxlit | It's overkill in this case |
| 22:53.51 | art3mis | not really |
| 22:53.57 | art3mis | its not that noticbly slower |
| 22:54.06 | [AD]snegoviK | i consider stereotypes evil, because like i said, people tend to be extreme:) its either everyones the same or emo tears about individuality |
| 22:54.09 | art3mis | and if you care that much about "security" then do the right thing ;P |
| 22:54.32 | cog|work | only actions are evil, imo... |
| 22:54.49 | art3mis | im gonna lock my car with weights, counter weights and pullies and youll need to pull the right cord to open the door |
| 22:55.01 | art3mis | OR you could just use the lock that the door has |
| 22:55.03 | art3mis | ;) |
| 22:55.35 | [AD]snegoviK | cog|work, yea, i guess its a better way to put it. because stereotypes is a tool. you cant really call a hammer evil. |
| 22:55.36 | art3mis | thats not true |
| 22:55.43 | art3mis | carebears and smurfs are evil |
| 22:55.45 | [AD]snegoviK | are a tool* omg... |
| 22:55.53 | art3mis | just standing there you know thers something sinsiterly wrong |
| 22:55.56 | cog|work | what you do with that hammer, on the other hand :P |
| 22:56.17 | cog|work | like i'd rather not have you stick its claw into my eye socket ;) |
| 22:56.31 | art3mis | wanna play hammer tag? |
| 22:56.32 | cog|work | because i'm a white male american ages 18-24 |
| 22:56.34 | art3mis | i'll be it |
| 22:56.56 | foxlit | http://foxlit.pastey.net/73157 |
| 22:57.05 | foxlit | Fear it greatly |
| 22:57.20 | Kaydeethree | cripes... the Hortus is sticky-spamming the PTR forum. 20 stickies atm |
| 22:57.32 | Iriel | Maybe he's a spider |
| 22:57.39 | Iriel | building a web from stickies |
| 22:57.45 | Iriel | you're all his prey |
| 22:57.58 | Iriel | I wonder if the last patch fixed my mac video recording (more specifically encoding) issues |
| 22:58.19 | [AD]snegoviK | i love the md5 call :) |
| 22:58.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine (n=Guilloti@adsl-76-214-10-54.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:58.23 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v Guillotine] by ChanServ |
| 22:58.33 | [AD]snegoviK | stick some cyrillic characters in : ) |
| 22:58.41 | foxlit | No real point :) |
| 22:58.54 | foxlit | I should probably just stick with prefixing it anyway |
| 22:59.34 | foxlit | Point is the prefix is there to prevent the client from generating a valid hash |
| 23:00.22 | Cidan | why can I not find a link to the PTR forum? |
| 23:00.24 | [AD]snegoviK | make a sql table out of your 100 favorite jokes and prefix them : )_ |
| 23:00.31 | Kaydeethree | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.html?forumId=11572&sid=1& |
| 23:01.19 | [AD]snegoviK | lua> print("А это юникод?"); |
| 23:01.19 | cladbot | [AD]snegoviK: А это юникод? |
| 23:01.37 | [AD]snegoviK | lua> print(#("А это юникод?")); |
| 23:01.37 | cladbot | [AD]snegoviK: 13 |
| 23:01.43 | cog|work | Cidan: go to any wow forum (except realm) and choose test realm forum in the dropbox |
| 23:03.19 | Kaydeethree | heh. |
| 23:03.29 | Kaydeethree | the nightly patching continues, PTRs going down again momentarily |
| 23:06.05 | [AD]snegoviK | right. time for bed |
| 23:06.07 | [AD]snegoviK | nn all |
| 23:06.50 | |Jelly| | That's right |Jelly|Laptop! PEACE OUT! |
| 23:07.13 | |Jelly| | By the way Kaydeethree, that thread was deleted. :( |
| 23:07.20 | Kaydeethree | aw |
| 23:07.27 | |Jelly| | I was hoping to be able to use "lil'camper" on him. |
| 23:08.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Orclev (n=Orclev@adsl-230-105-184.mco.bellsouth.net) |
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| 23:09.19 | Orclev | RTFPN? I get up to RTF, but what's PN? |
| 23:09.26 | Kaydeethree | patch notes |
| 23:09.30 | Orclev | ah |
| 23:09.44 | Seppidane | hey there, am I allowed to ask makro questions in here ? :) |
| 23:09.52 | |Jelly| | ~asktoask |
| 23:09.53 | purl | This is IRC. Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help. |
| 23:09.55 | Kaydeethree | ll |
| 23:09.56 | Kaydeethree | lol* |
| 23:09.58 | |Jelly| | OWNED |
| 23:09.58 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 23:10.14 | |Jelly| | <3KD3 |
| 23:10.20 | Seppidane | /script SendChatMessage(">>> BLOODLUST! <<<","WHISPER", "Orcish", UnitName("party1")); |
| 23:10.20 | Orclev | ok, I'm seeing some strange behavior, and I'm hoping someone can either tell me why it's happening, or even better, tell me a better way to accomplish what I'm trying |
| 23:10.20 | foxlit | No comments on that PHP-auth-system-of-doom? |
| 23:10.34 | Seppidane | what i wanna do is to send the "Bloodlust" message to every party member |
| 23:10.38 | |Jelly| | Seppidane: Get aftercast. |
| 23:10.47 | |Jelly| | Oh as in a whisper? |
| 23:10.52 | Seppidane | yep |
| 23:10.58 | |Jelly| | omg why? |
| 23:10.58 | foxlit | Why not send to /p? |
| 23:11.02 | |Jelly| | I'd ignore you. lol |
| 23:11.04 | art3mis | you dont really wanna group with people much huh? |
| 23:11.08 | Seppidane | i tried UnitName("party1,2,3,4") <-- not working |
| 23:11.27 | foxlit | Yes, you need separate SendChatMessage calls to make that work |
| 23:11.38 | Seppidane | oh, that sucks :( |
| 23:11.43 | foxlit | But, really, send to /party if you want to do that |
| 23:11.46 | Seppidane | since there is a 255 character limit |
| 23:11.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-74-62-251-185.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:11.55 | |Jelly| | Could you use a local? Like local = SendChatMessageETCHERE |
| 23:12.01 | Orclev | I'm trying to determine if an item is soulbound or not. I got it sort of working by scanning the tooltip for the Soulbound string, and it works fine if I pass in the item by shift clicking it into a slash command handler. But if I query the item link by using the bag access functions, it stops working |
| 23:12.03 | foxlit | You can put it in a for loop, it'd fit. |
| 23:12.13 | Seppidane | i think /p is not the best since /w plays a sound to get the players attention |
| 23:12.34 | foxlit | Why would anyone want to know you used Bloodlust? |
| 23:12.38 | |Jelly| | If people don't see their character grow by 40%, I say it's their own fault. lol |
| 23:12.45 | foxlit | In 5 man groups, there's always /rw |
| 23:12.59 | art3mis | and more importantly if they arent orcs they arent gonna know what you're saying anyways and not really give a crap |
| 23:13.01 | foxlit | Oh fs, Heroism |
| 23:13.03 | Iriel | more to the point, if anyone DID want to know you used bloodlust, shouldn't they be looking in THEIR combat log? |
| 23:13.15 | |Jelly| | art3mis: Orcish is the Horde "Common" |
| 23:13.29 | foxlit | You should omit that anyway |
| 23:13.31 | art3mis | then there's not much reason to specify it is there |
| 23:13.41 | foxlit | Since passing nil gets you the default language without much trouble |
| 23:13.44 | Seppidane | Sorry, I don't wanna discuss if /p or /w is the best. |
| 23:14.03 | |Jelly| | In any case, yes, you can do it but to do so would be brutally annoying, ESPECIALLY if you spam it like you said in your post. |
| 23:14.06 | Iriel | Seppidane: You're new to IRC aren't you? 8-) |
| 23:14.19 | |Jelly| | Where's Cog? :P |
| 23:14.21 | Iriel | Seppidane: It's not a question of whether YOU want to discuss it, it's more whether the room feels like it's an interesting debate |
| 23:14.22 | Seppidane | nope, i'm on irc for about 8 years now |
| 23:15.15 | Orclev | is there a better way to determine an items soulbound status than by scanning its tooltip? |
| 23:15.29 | Iriel | Personally I'd write an AddOn like /wp (Whisper Party) and then use that in the macro |
| 23:15.34 | Iriel | Orclev: No |
| 23:15.45 | foxlit | Not part of an item link :) |
| 23:15.48 | cog|work | i should add that to MacroTalk... |
| 23:15.54 | foxlit | So you have to do SetBagItem or something |
| 23:15.59 | Orclev | drat, then I need to figure out why sometimes it works with an item link, and sometimes not |
| 23:16.01 | foxlit | cog|work: /rwhisper and die! |
| 23:16.15 | cog|work | foxlit: server would probably dc you if you did that anyway :P |
| 23:16.24 | foxlit | Dunno |
| 23:16.24 | Cide | nah |
| 23:16.28 | Cide | I tried it in a 40 man raid |
| 23:16.38 | foxlit | I did run a few macros like that in AB/AV |
| 23:16.47 | Cide | fun story, to be honest |
| 23:16.51 | foxlit | Mostly to tell people to get off my sheep target :P |
| 23:16.58 | Cide | I had to make an addon to simulate the thaddius fight |
| 23:17.11 | Cide | because the stupid people in the guild could never figure out left and right |
| 23:17.12 | Orclev | so, if I pass it into a slash handler by shift clicking it, it works, but when I get the link with GetContainerItemLink(0, 1) it fails, anyone know why? |
| 23:17.28 | foxlit | Dump both links |
| 23:17.32 | foxlit | But neither should work |
| 23:17.35 | Orclev | I did identical |
| 23:17.42 | cog|work | foxlit: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info6826-CCWarn.html :) |
| 23:18.05 | foxlit | cog|work: I predate that by a few months. And mine fits in a macro. |
| 23:18.10 | Orclev | I thought at first maybe shift clicking was adding something extra, but both links are near as I can tell exactly the same, can't figure it out |
| 23:18.11 | art3mis | can you specify LoS for mass whispers |
| 23:18.19 | |Jelly| | I need to macro my shackle. I get tired of people like "zomg make sure you reshackle" |
| 23:18.26 | cog|work | foxlit: i made that after a few months of telling people how to do it in macros :P |
| 23:18.46 | cog|work | :( |
| 23:18.47 | foxlit | Hah, I don't care about telling people how to do things in macros :) |
| 23:18.48 | cog|work | but i'm a gnome |
| 23:18.48 | art3mis | you're both to tiny to matter ;) |
| 23:18.52 | Iriel | Is it the difference between it being 'YOUR item' and 'AN item of type X' ? |
| 23:19.10 | Iriel | Linked tooltips dont show whether the item is soulbound to its owner, do they |
| 23:19.15 | Orclev | hmm, maybe, although I don't see how it's telling the difference based solely on the link |
| 23:19.22 | Orclev | Nom-, they don't |
| 23:19.25 | Orclev | eh |
| 23:19.27 | art3mis | ya know what would be super annoying in the hello kitty ui? |
| 23:19.28 | cog|work | foxlit: i mean i made the macro and showed it to them :P |
| 23:19.29 | Orclev | stupid autocomplete |
| 23:19.30 | foxlit | Orclev: do not use item links. |
| 23:19.37 | Iriel | Oh, so you're always calling the same tooltip method? |
| 23:19.40 | art3mis | adding after casts that make movie quotes and play a sound ;P |
| 23:19.46 | Iriel | With just an item link, and the same arguments? |
| 23:19.56 | art3mis | or a big macro leadup to casting the spell |
| 23:19.57 | Orclev | foxlit: how do I reference an item with using a item link? |
| 23:19.58 | foxlit | Tooltips fail to flush cache anyway |
| 23:20.05 | art3mis | like EVERY final fantasy spell that had a cut scene ;P |
| 23:20.07 | Orclev | without using even |
| 23:20.18 | foxlit | Orclev: there are separate SetItemTooltip() functions for referencing equipped/bag items |
| 23:20.31 | Orclev | aaah, let me check which one I'm using |
| 23:20.32 | foxlit | GameTooltip:SomethingAboutABag(0, 1) |
| 23:21.01 | foxlit | Iriel: know anything about the persistant enchants in tooltips bug? |
| 23:21.12 | Orclev | this is what I'm currently using, so I guess there's my problem: Tooltip:SetHyperlink(itemLink); |
| 23:21.22 | foxlit | Yeah, you should be using a different method |
| 23:21.29 | foxlit | Find a list on WoWWiki somewhere :) |
| 23:21.47 | cog|work | foxlit: my addon will also check pet targets ;) |
| 23:22.00 | Orclev | shame though, was trying to make a generic soulbound check that just uses a item link, doing it this way I'll have to specify bag slots and such, much nastier |
| 23:22.42 | Orclev | makes me wonder why blizzard doesn't return soulbound in an items getinfo data |
| 23:23.37 | cog|work | Orclev: because the default UI doesn't need to know that data |
| 23:23.44 | Kaydeethree | wow... the mods are on the ball right now |
| 23:23.49 | cog|work | the tooltips are generated c-side |
| 23:24.09 | cog|work | and that's the only place the UI even mentoins anything about it |
| 23:24.14 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Seppidane (i=sepp@dslb-082-083-120-125.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:24.21 | Orclev | how does the tooltip know if an item is soulbound or not then?... I guess it always knows if it's checking for a bag, or equiped item though |
| 23:24.44 | foxlit | If you set it using an item you have, then it does know it |
| 23:24.50 | foxlit | C-side knows what is soulbound and what isn't |
| 23:25.05 | cog|work | Orclev: the information is in the client but not in the Lua environment |
| 23:25.09 | foxlit | If you set it using a link, it'll know whether the item binds on pickup/equip/use, but not whether it's bound or not |
| 23:25.58 | Orclev | foxlit, yeah, I've seen that behavior... seems like when I shift click to link it in it caches the tooltip or something initially and that's what allows the check to work. Not sure though, very strange |
| 23:26.14 | foxlit | It's easy to reproduce |
| 23:26.24 | foxlit | Link an enchanted item and a tradeskill |
| 23:26.31 | foxlit | Click enchanted item, click tradeskill |
| 23:26.37 | foxlit | Tradeskill tooltip has enchant on it. |
| 23:27.02 | Orclev | sounds like a bug in the way tooltips are generated then |
| 23:27.40 | Iriel | Are you sure you're not inadvertently passing more than one arg into the tooltip method? |
| 23:27.49 | Orclev | yes, I'm sure |
| 23:28.39 | Orclev | when I started to see the odd behaviour the first thing I did was dump everything to console and verify the inputs in all cases |
| 23:29.54 | Kaydeethree | wtf? http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1371568762&sid=1 |
| 23:30.09 | Kaydeethree | if it's deleted before you get to it... " how do you do the thing with zeros and / and \ to make it look like to ppl having sex ? just wondering plz some one post this for me :)" |
| 23:30.39 | Orclev | check the name, does it really suprise you? Not that I can comment much on names |
| 23:31.32 | |Jelly| | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.42 | Cidan | oh |
| 23:34.43 | Cidan | holy |
| 23:34.44 | Cidan | shit |
| 23:34.44 | Cidan | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrASmNTnl3M |
| 23:34.47 | Cidan | lol |
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| 23:36.50 | Orclev | ok, the gnomes for 300 is just wrong |
| 23:37.30 | foxlit | Clearly it's 300 moonkins |
| 23:38.38 | Orclev | also, wtf is with blizzard indexing bags at 0, and bag slots at 1? can we have some consistancy on array indexes? |
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| 23:41.48 | Cidan | no |
| 23:41.51 | Cidan | that'd be silly |
| 23:43.07 | Orclev | eh, no dice on the change to SetBagItem, it's still reporting as not soulbound it seems |
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| 23:46.40 | Orclev | doesn't look like there's any way to actually tell if an item is soulbound or not |
| 23:47.15 | foxlit | But, uhm, the tooltips should show soulbound for bag items :/ |
| 23:47.45 | Orclev | well, when I use SetBagItem(0,1) and the item in slot one is soulbound it fails the check |
| 23:48.10 | foxlit | Show the tooltip to yourself, see what's going on? |
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